You are not alone. You know this. And, if you wanted out of this cycle of loneliness, you could. But, it's so much more comfortable to remain where you feel safe, even if it means enduring crushing loneliness till the day you drop dead.
>>16851894 Op, I am 28 and am feeling the same way.
Let me give you some advice so you won't make the same mistakes I did.
1. You won't find the answer your looking for online, the internet is a lonely place.
2. Social media is a curse, it will bring you down being able to see people you knew moving on with life.
3. Make small changes every week. I am currently doing this. I stopped taking painkillers. was hooked. I stopped smoking.. next is leaving the house more than once a month.
Personally I feel I've fucked up too badly to ever have friends, a job and a real life.. I haven't and neither have you. If you feel you need it, go to the doctor, don't take pills unless you're really down.. do take other options. talk to someone.
Happiness has never and will never come easily and it cannot be found online.
>>16852464 Not OP but this is good advice, especially about happiness. Thanks. I've been having a terrible few months and been wondering if I should just give up. I guess I'll try a but harder to make things work out, even though the shame from previous failures is still killing me emotionally. I feel ashamed all the time.
>>16852528 Never feel ashamed.. that is my problem too. I feel ashamed that I was a gifted child and ended up stuck in the house looking after a sick parent, no education, my group of friends fucked off and left me etc. Same old story.
I feel both guilt and shame for who I've become.. I shouldn't and neither should you.
Don't let your own mind get you down, it becomes a never ending cycle of depression and life feels hopeless. It isn't but seeing a way to fix it is hard.. and it is different for everyone. That's why /adv/ sucks.. because everyone is different and so are their options
>>16852559 Totes, family. OP should continue to bemoan his situation on internet bulletin boards instead of spending his obviously dwindling time searching for the company he so desperately craves. tips tips of the hats to you sir
There is no such thing as 'making it'. If you have that attitude then you will never be satisfied with what you achieve. Instead, work toward self-acceptance and self-love. There is no end to this path, it continues forever.
Having nothing to say beyond a few stock phrases, even fewer with the fairer sex. Mostly since I lack 'real' friends and don't go out, I have no stories or experiences to tell or relate. It's just work, sleep, work, sleep and vidya and jerkin off inbetween work and sleep. Working at a job that I'm overqualified for and seeking jobs that I'm underqualified for. I've never been on holiday or been anywhere outside my city.
Ray A. Kroc, man. Didn't get his life together until he was 52. Got into a little restaurant chain, built it into the McDonald's empire, bought himself a fuckin baseball team, and died a multi-gazillionaire. And you have a 27-year head start on him -longer than you've even been alive yet- and you don't even have to make 0.1% of what he did to be a success.
>>16853017 I'm sure he had his social life and matching personality in order.
It's slightly annoying that the 'quiet unassuming office guy' position seems to have disappeared. Need to be hella social to get a good job, I know a guy with 3 GCSEs, 2 A-Levels and a third class pass at uni, still get a high paying job since he impressed his interviewer so much. I can't talk for shit and I barely got into a wageslave job.
>>16853931 >I'm sure he had his social life and matching personality in order. >It's slightly annoying that the 'quiet unassuming office guy' position seems to have disappeared. The "quiet unassuming office guy" position didn't disappear. It never existed.
>Need to be hella social to get a good job You don't need to be hella social. You just need to convince somebody else that what you're asking to do will provide the best value, relative to what you're asking. Persuasion is a social skill, yes, but not an especially advanced or difficult one.
I think so but it's overrated, because if you're alone, you have no genuine friends and you don't spend time with them on a regular basis, no therapist can provide you a medication that can cancel the red flag of being friendless when trying to meet new people.
Because you see, these people have already reached an adult point in their lives, they've made it so far without you, they do have their friends, their group, they don't need you, it's you who might need them, so good luck trying to fit in. Ultimately it's all a gamble, finding a group that shares a common interest/hobby with you, and hope you stick. Whoever tells you about "safe zone" is nothing but a clueless mongoloid, because you don't get to make friends hanging out in bars, and again there's no medication for it either.
I guess I "made it" by /adv/ standards. You can catch up and over take most people very quickly when it comes to social experiences. I had good experiences when I was below the social average too, they were just different things like travelling. I think people who just hung out at home with their consistent friends missed out on the different things I experienced.
You have to think about how exactly you want to "make it". You've probably set the bar way too high, and once you'll start you may realise you don't actually want to do social stuff too much and most people don't do it that often either.
Things are pretty simple though, just do things you haven't done and want to do.
>>16854326 > Be able to draw upon past experiences work or otherwise? > Both of which I lack? I don't really know where to start.
You'll have to keep an eye out for opportunities and nature them a little, absolutely don't reject them. Either that or go out and seek opportunities hard, which I appreciate is like walking into the dark since you have no experience to judge anything with.
>>16855330 I don't hate women, I was just saying that to draw attention to the thread. Seems like it worked.
>Because you see, these people have already reached an adult point in their lives, they've made it so far without you, they do have their friends, their group, they don't need you, it's you who might need them, so good luck trying to fit in.
That's what I was concerned about, at 25+ most people have settled into their circles.
At the end of highschool I had been friendless really for a few years and was in a pretty shitty place. I started going to college at 21. I talked to people, got involved in some study groups, and from that made some friends. I started getting my shit together, and became more and more social.
I now have a couple of very close friends, and while I'm introverted I don't feel like a third wheel when I do decide to go out with them. I don't really think there's any solution aside from putting yourself out there.
I'm nowhere near "making it", but I'm still slowly plodding along :)
32, never had a romantic relationship, or even a real friendship (i.e. not just acquaintance, or some shared hobby). Semi-aspie (though only encountered the concept halfway through my twenties, which means I never really used it as an excuse or a crutch), extremely shy and self-conscious and insecure. Social interactions often make me feel uncomfortable, which makes it hard to enjoy them, and desirable to avoid them.
Got a job in IT because I figured it was the career most suited for someone with my (lack of) social skills. Unlike what I originally imagined, it's not just all working alone, there's teamwork involved too, but even that usually goes acceptably well. I mean, I'm always obviously the shy quiet one in the group, but the people I work closely with tend to value and respect me. As for the more personal relationships, I'm not really foreseeing much progress in the short term. Getting comfortable with people is a pretty slow process :)
Missed out on lots of things probably, but as long as you're not dead yet, it's not too late :)
I think you have to : * accept the current situation. Not accepting it as in "that's the way it is, and I won't be able to change it", but as in "that's the way it is now, and it probably won't dramatically change in the short term, so it's no use getting frustrated about it, as that will only stop me from making progress". * think (realistically) about the kind of person you want to be. I'm making some assumptions here, please forgive me if they're not exactly correct, and don't be offended by them : if you're thinking about "missing out" you might be a bit stuck in a high school / college mindset, with your ideal being the cool popular kid, bit of a "bad boy", always drinking / smoking, partying, fucking different girls every week... It's true that you probably won't ever be that guy, but imho there's nothing wrong with that :) * (possibly more later)
>>16856519 Continued : * start exercising. It's healthy, it'll probably make you feel more confident and happier, ... Depending on what kind of exercise you end up doing, you might meet people doing it, and even if not, it's something to do outside of your current routine, and a potential subject to talk about (just don't bore people to death :)). * cut back a bit on the gaming and wanking, start reading a bit more instead. It's a big cliché, but reading can really broaden your mind, give you new perspectives etc. It can also just be entertaining :) * as for social stuff, start with the basic stuff, and take baby steps. There's this old joke that goes "How do you recognize an extroverted geek?" "When he's talking to you, he looks at your shoes instead of his own". It's a pretty silly example, but still, a thousand tiny steps in roughly the right direction will at least hopefully get you to a slightly better place :)
Some very specific suggestions -> GIVE THESE AN HONEST TRY ASAP. You're not very happy right now, these are highly unlikely to make things worse :) * Depending on how out-of-shape you are (or how nice the surroundings are) : walk 30-60 minutes each day, or do couch-to-5K, or go on bike trips every weekend, or start lifting weights or doing bodyweight exercises * Read a few Discworld books (comedy/fantasy, skip the first few for now, reading them in order is nice but not super-important, hopefully your local library will have some, if not, buy or torrent), and Marcus Aurelius's "Meditations" (personal notebook of a stoic philosopher / roman emperor, freely available online, though some translations are a bit dry and archaic)
>>16856519 that last part spoke to me, about college kid. i feel like thats me, how do i grow to not want this? its all i want fuck. whats sad is i used to be popular and cool and found it exhausting so i withdrew, now im trying again, with the knowledge that i hate that lifestyle
>>16856519 > think (realistically) about the kind of person you want to be. I'm making some assumptions here, please forgive me if they're not exactly correct, and don't be offended by them : if you're thinking about "missing out" you might be a bit stuck in a high school / college mindset, with your ideal being the cool popular kid, bit of a "bad boy", always drinking / smoking, partying, fucking different girls every week... It's true that you probably won't ever be that guy, but imho there's nothing wrong with that :)
Honestly? No, though being a UKfag and from a (former) sinkhole estate my expectations are different. I spent most of the time at secondary keeping my head down to avoid getting it kicked in.
When I say "miss out" I mean, anything aside from staying at home and playing videogames till you're 25. I would like to connect with people.
It's funny, that I never fit in back when the estate was constantly on fire in the 90s and I don't fit in now that it's slowly filling in with hipsters, students and business workers. Hell, I stand out more since it seems everyone dresses like it's a topman/boohoo advert.
Such as...? Got a 2.2 in Maths almost 5 years and no experience except mind-numbing shelf stacking. I hear IT is a good career path for the socially inept, what positions are open to me? Any additional courses I should take? Any languages I need to learn?
>>16858785 Not that guy, but if you still live with your parents, moving out could help as it'll force you to be a bit more independent, get out more, ... * do your own shopping * cook your own food * clean your own place * wash your own clothes * interact with landlord and neighbours * feel responsible * if you ever, in the future, want to take a girl home, it'll be less awkward :) ...
Especially at first, you may want to make sure that you don't move too far away from your family, and that they'll visit you regularly, to force you to keep your place clean (you need to build up those good habits at first, having such an external factor makes it easier), to make sure that you don't lose (all of) the social interaction you had with them suddenly, ...
>>16857159 I always heard the geek version, but I suppose it might not be the original one :) It probably is the most general one though (geek is broader than any specific area of geekery), and the easiest to understand for kids today :)
>>16858543 If you have no IT experience, your most obvious options are probably : * learn web development (self-taught or some fast-track job-path course), work on a basic portfolio, use that to get an entry-level job * if you can find some support-oriented job course, you can use that to get a support job at a company with a big IT department then try to move into system administration (not guaranteed to work obviously, depends on how open the company is towards internal mobility, but the place I work at is pretty good about that for example) * learn about QA'ing (probably best try to get some course with at least some certification, as it's hard to prove you can do this well, even though it's not that hard to learn on your own), get an entry-level QA job. possibly learn some basic scripting/programming on the side and try to move into fully-automated or automation-assisted testing
>>16857590 In that case, you're only "missing out" in the sense that your life could have been more rewarding and meaningful than it actually was/is. But not in the sense that what you (thought you) were missing was only available temporarily and is forever lost afterwards (like those couple of years in late adolescence / early adulthood where testosterone-fueled irresponsibility is somewhat socially acceptable :)). The things you are currently missing out on, well, it sucks not having them now of course, but they won't go away. You can still achieve those things later (sure, it might be in a different place, with different people, ..., and it might not be quite as smooth as when you're young, but you can still make connections). It might even be relatively soon, if you're not afraid of failing :) Talking about being afraid of failing, if you're considering moving out soon, you might be able to take a few more risks in your current place of residence. Gather your courage, go out there, risk making a fool of yourself, and try to interact with people some more. If it goes well, you're gaining experience and confidence etc. If it doesn't go well, that sucks, but you probably won't see those people again very often :) Regarding how much you fit in : unless you really stand out a lot, people don't generally care that much (outside of very specific sub cultures like, again, high school etc). You really don't need to worry about that too much probably.
On the train home yesterday, I remembered another possibly interesting reading suggestion : "Remains of the day", by Kazuo Ishiguro. It's a pretty good book, and it happens to be about "missing out" (albeit from a different perspective, at least on a conscious level, as the main character abstains from meaningful personal relations for most of his life due to a sense of duty and work ethic, though it could possibly be argued that it was also partly due to fear)
>>16857169 How old are you (as you're not OP I reckon)? Might part of the problem be that you haven't yet found a different lifestyle / goal that works better for you? It might be better to focus on that, carrot vs stick and running to something vs running away from something, and all :) You might no longer be popular in the sense of partying etc, but you might still have decent social skills and confidence? Have you tried making friends that are also not into such a lifestyle? As I mentioned in a previous post, reading broadens your mind. Gotta head out, so I can't really give specific suggestions right now.
>>16859821 >late adolescence / early adulthood where testosterone-fueled irresponsibility is somewhat socially acceptable
Yeah, the ability to make mistakes that would be considered naive instead of just plain embarrassing now.
> Gather your courage, go out there, risk making a fool of yourself, and try to interact with people some more.
Meet people where though?
> Regarding how much you fit in : unless you really stand out a lot, people don't generally care that much
I realise that but being the only one on the train in a scruffy uniform and everyone else in business suits is kind of a kick in the teeth.
>>16859789 >IT portfolio How do I go about building one? Won't my Maths degree come into use? It's from a good uni, if that helps, though it is a 2.2?
>"Remains of the day", by Kazuo Ishiguro Need to finish Don Quixote first. Used to love to read.
> but I suppose it might not be the original one :) I guess quite a few actuaries were geeks/nerds when the joke still true, but apparently you need to have some level of interpersonal skills to be an actuary now. (And a fresh 2.1 degree)
>>16861098 Embarrassing mistakes are embarrassing, but unless you make them during an interaction with someone you really really want/need to impress, they don't really impact the further course of your life all that much :) The main challenge (after gathering the courage to act) is to realize that most failures don't matter in the long run.
Regarding your second point, I was mainly talking about very basic stuff, where the "where?" question wouldn't even apply all that much, because you're not really trying to have meaningful interactions, just any interactions at all, to get used to them. Stuff like asking where the eggs are in the supermarket, or making an effort to be positive and nice to the person who checks your ticket on the train, ... It's possible that you're already a little bit more advanced than that, that you no longer need to work on such basic stuff, and that your personal challenges are more on the acquaintance or distant friendship level. In that case, you are right that it's a little less obvious how to proceed. Maybe check out some local sport or hobby clubs or courses, and just try everything that at least sort-of interests you? Maybe nothing much will happen, maybe you'll find some things really do interest you, maybe you'll meet some people you can have a chat with during the events themselves, ...
Wearing a scruffy uniform on a train full of people in suits might feel kind of awkward, but it's only a sign that your current circumstances are less fortunate, not that you're less valuable (I reckon you know this yourself, but you might not really feel it all the way, so it's worth re-iterating :)). Wearing a scruffy uniform and reading serious literature like Don Quixote might even trigger a conversation once in a while :)
>>16861098 A Maths degree isn't very useful for most IT jobs, as most IT jobs really involve basic business or customer-facing applications. It would be helpful if you're going to pursue a Computer Science degree (as it would allow you to skip most of the math courses). Employment-wise there are definitely also areas where math knowledge is useful or required (financial or scientific computing, everything where statistics are involved, some data science fields, advanced algorithm design), but those jobs tend to be fairly rare and or highly sought-after. Realistically speaking, I would suggest at least getting some entry-level experience first before applying for stuff like that, so that you can at least say "I've got a Math degree and X years IT experience", instead of just the Math degree. Though if you're OK with getting rejected, it might be worth applying to whatever you come across, you might get lucky and have somebody offer you a chance to prove yourself.
Regarding interpersonal skills, it really depends on how good you are at your job, what kind of environment you work in, and what your ambitions are. Working in IT doesn't mean you get to totally neglect those skills, it just offers you a little more margin (or a lot more, depending on how lucky you get). My team and my direct manager and the dedicated project managers for the main stuff we work on have gotten used to me, and they know that I'm not the person that they should send to an intake meeting for a new project, or to give a demo to various stakeholders, ... But occasionally I do have to speak up at a bigger meeting (because I happen to have the most knowledge about some system), and some days I have to "pair program" on some task, and it's also team policy to try to eat lunch together in the cafeteria (which makes lunch, for me, usually more tiring than the equivalent amount of work-time, even though it's usually also an interesting and rewarding experience).
small bump before I go get some sleep, and minor explanation of why I wrote that last bit about interpersonal skills : It's not really an on/off thing, it's more of a spectrum. Many jobs need a lot of it, some jobs (like IT, but not limited to it) don't need a lot of it, and are more lenient to a little bit of weirdness etc. But all jobs (including your current one no doubt) need at least a tiny little bit :)
That might also be what the other anon earlier meant when he said that the "quiet unassuming office guy" position didn't disappear but that it never existed. Something more or less like that existed and still exists, but not if it's interpreted as literally being quiet all the time :)
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