Girls of /adv/:
Is smalltalk always necessary before asking a girl out, even if she has expressed subtle hints that she finds you attractive or has acted more warmly to you than others around you?
My instincts tell me to stop this girl the next time I see her in passing and instead of just smiling or say hey to ask her if she'd like to go out with me some time.
Does this seem like a good idea?
She's asked me a couple of work-related questions (things she needed help with) even though in one case there was no real reason to ask the question, especially not to me in particular.
We've also smiled at each other in passing a couple of times and recently we passed and both sort of half-laughed as if we'd shared a joke while saying "hey" etc. I don't see her much and I'd like to be upfront and frank and show her that I am attracted to her without acting goofy or adopting a fake persona to seem wacky or something. She's sort of quiet and reserved too so I hope that she at least recognizes that for someone like me who is also quite reserved etc it's not something that should result in my being humiliated or something.
The thing is we don't really see each other like at all any more so smalltalk at this point would be fruitless. She used to come make coffee every day with her female colleague but now only her colleague comes. I was thinking of asking her colleague about her but I don't know how without making it awkward and obvious.
I'm not planning to do stupid shit. The next time I pass her on the stairwell I was thinking of turning around (not to corner her or anything) and say "excuse me, I'm sorry if this is inappropriate but would you like to go out with me sometime?"
No idea sorry.
But I really do think the opportunity for small talk is over, and since I'm quite a private guy I think any weird optimism or something from me would seem false.
I could try smalltalk with her colleague in the hope that she tells the girl that I'm nice to talk to but I feel she might just say "I don't care any more" or may think I like her colleague and not her.
Anon the point of the smalltalk isn't to make smalltalk this time. It's to make the asking out on a date more organic.
Of course if you think you will only have things go south by talking to her then just ask her out.
Yeah you should. I've found the quicker, the better. Not only is it clear for her, its easier for you. In fact I think a lot of talking to girls is about you being cool with whatever you're doing. When you're in doubt or have incongruence with yourself, she'll feel the same way.
I've done this:
Me: Hey, do you want to go for a coffee?
Her: because I don't know you.
Me: Well that's the point of going for coffee. So we get to know each other.
Me: What do you want to know?
etc etc and it worked well and we went out. The worst is if you delay it actually, like a car salesman going on about the weather or whatever, you just want him to get to the point.
From the notebook -
Young Noah: [while hanging from the Ferris Wheel] Will you go out with me?
Young Allie: What? No.
Young Noah: No...?
Young Allie: No.
Young Noah: Why not?
Young Allie: I don't know, because I don't want to.
Young Noah: OK, then you leave me no other choice.
Young Allie: [Lets go with one hand] AHHHH!
Young Noah: I'm gonna ask you one more time, will you or will you not go out with me? I think my hand's slipping.
Young Allie: OK, OK. Fine I'll go out with you
Young Noah: No, don't do me any favors.
Young Allie: No, no I want to.
Young Noah: Say it.
Young Allie: I wanna go out with you.
Young Noah: Say it again.
Young Allie: I WANNA GO OUT WITH YOU!
Young Noah: All right, all right we'll go out.
Talk to her first, and get to know her in a platonic way first before you jump the gun and ask her out.
I think small talk is good, to an extent. It's better than you asking her out, out of nowhere. (Sure, some girls would find that spontaneous and cool, but to be safe maybe not do it)
OP here. I thought this thread was dead. Thanks to everybody who replied.
I was only planning to say "sorry if this is inappropriate" so that she would:
1. See that I am self-aware (i.e. that I realize it's sort of strange to be asking)
2. That she may interpret my hesitation in asking her out before on the fact that the office workplace setting isn't necessarily conducive to flirting and so on
There's really no opportunity for small talk any more.
She used to enter my office almost every day for whatever reason, either to make coffee with her colleague or to print something off. She generally seemed quite energetic and stuff when she walked past, and would stand by the printer for like 10-20 seconds even though most people just come grab their paper and go.
Now she never comes down here unless she has a meeting in one of the meeting rooms. I only ever see her on the stairwell when one of us is leaving the toilets and the other is heading towards them. But the last time I saw her in that context she blanked me, in a way I felt was consciously cold or hostile.
I think this would come across as patronizing, from me at least. I mean if she is bored / over me at this point then me saying "I've finally decided to..." may just make her think "ugh don't bother" or "it's too late" or something. I understand why she wouldn't be interested in some quiet guy who seemed nice and interesting at first but who turned out to be this neurotic mute who thinks I'd just wait around for him to ask me out.
>smiled at each other in passing a couple of times and recently we passed and both sort of half-laughed as if we'd shared a joke while saying "hey"
and you take that as a 'subtle hint'?? every single coworker does that...
youre already thinking waay too much about it
holy fuck these aspies are hilarious
I'd say in a workplace just be straight up. Maybe not ask her out but just say you'd like to get to know her better and talk outside of work, then ask for her number. You have the advantage of not being a totally random guy.
I hate to sound like an idiot or a narcissist but is it wrong that one of my main worries here is that in asking her out I am risking humiliation (if only subtly inflicted, i.e. by patronizing smiles etc) at the hands of her colleagues? All her colleagues as far as I can tell are from the same background (privately schooled, top colleges and then steady careers), and her boss is only like a year or so older than we are. I suppose due to whatever complexes or insecurity I have I try and maintain a dignified, flawless appearance to people I don't know, particularly if they are people that society perceives as superior to me (either by having more wealth, intelligence, physical attractiveness etc) and to think that I will finally reveal myself to be a weird, creepy, working class, delusional autistic mute to not only this girl but her colleagues / friends really does give me the heeby jeebies. It's like they'll think "oh he wasn't interesting and reserved he was just an autistic weirdo".
Yes, pretty much. I mean thinking this way has benefitted me in a lot of ways, though of course it does make me hesitate / stall which does lead occasionally to chances passing by. And I am also very guarded in general and hate being humiliated or being perceived as lacking self-awareness, and since I have nobody to tell me "look man you're a good looking guy, just go for it and stop doubting yourself!" my self-perception is rather temperamental and I go from thinking she will definitely say yes to me thinking she will raise her eyebrows in disgust and say "no" and hurry away thinking I'll sperg out. I hate to sound deluded but whenever I am in a one-on-one situation with someone I have a very good track record of impressing them and having them want to be my friend or get closer to me etc. Most of the time I make it pretty clear that I have a boundary around my private character and would prefer to keep it intact, but even so I think if I just stopped this girl and asked her out she will at least not have to doubt herself (if she ever did / does) as to whether I notice her or like her, and will then give her the time and ease either to say "let me think about it" or to say "no" and then at least think whether she would actually like to reciprocate. Does that make sense?
Are you trying to be something you are not? In any case I don't think she would run and tell everyone. Given her background she's probably more mature than that. If she had a slightly better background that's no big deal. Like I said, just tell her you'd like to talk to her more than work allows for instead of asking for a date right off the bat.
The thing is it would be way out of character for me to say "talk to her more than work allows" since we've never had a conversation in work since we work for different companies in different parts of a large building. And I'm not someone who engages in much small talk etc, though I have plenty to talk about and am very very good at keeping a conversation going with anybody pretty much, just in crowded formal situations where there are a bunch of people around I would rather say nothing than trade superficialities etc.
Also she has worked with her boss (the guy) for like 2.5 years now and they are obviously friends IRL (I'm pretty sure they're not dating or see each other that way) so he will likely find out I imagine, and also the fact is if I date this girl I will have to communicate with guys like him and people from her background in a casual, social, upbeat way and I'm just not sure if I'm cut out for that sort of lifestyle or whether she realizes that even if I seem interesting it may awkward having me be the same way I am in work around these people. But the latter part is mostly hypothetical and thinking too far ahead I guess.
Nah, better say "I love you" when you see her on the stairs, then when she turns around say "Sorry, I meant hi"
You work in the same building but different companies, right? Dude you're 100% autistic and retarded and should really off yourself. The only feelings she has for you are disgust and fear.
In some ways you have your own answer. I was about to say it's hopeless but maybe not. I try and think ahead but Christ man, tone it down. As far as having your own answer, I'm saying how would she know what is out of character or not? You said you never spoken to her. Maybe even be a little cliche as much as I hate to say, "I don't normally do this kind of thing but..."
For like 2 weeks straight you're posting your bullshit here, looking for a sneaky way to get a date with this bitch. You really should stop making up excuses and simply man up. You see her, you say hi, she says hi, you say: "It might sound weird, but do you want to <place activity of your choice here> after work someday?"
Holy shit, I don't get it, sorry for offending, but I really don't get it
I feel saying "I don't usually do this sort of thing is" both redundant (since I'm a quiet person anyway and it's clear I'm not thirsty or desperate for female attention) and might potentially reinforce the perception she may have of me as being haughty or something, as in "I don't usually go out of my way to talk to people, but with you m'lady I shall make an exception".
It's weird (to me at least, but this is only my subjective interpretation and personal observation), when she first started entering my office she'd come in every day and linger at the printer nearby. She'd also come in every morning and sometimes in the afternoon to make coffee with her colleague, and sometimes they'd enter together and talk excitedly about something etc. When I stood at the head of the stairs to let her come up she ran up and said "sorry!" in passing and generally seemed like a talkative, enthusiastic person etc, at least when I saw her passing nearby etc. But for some weeks now she rarely enters my office at all, though her female colleague still does but whenever I see either of them they seem subdued and very formal. I doubt it has much if anything to do with me, that would be rather narcisstic to think so, but I can't help thinking that this girl may have suspected me of dismissing her as a giggly, childish and therefore uninteresting person and has therefore decided to stop being so outgoing and so on.
I just feel like I have to either take a chance here or repress everything and feel a big thump to my chest when our paths finally part should one of our employers relocate or should one of us resign. But the question is have I taken too long for it to be worth "making a move" and has her perception of me cooled and the conviction settled that I am just a quiet, boring, cold strange person that it's best to not have anything to do with.
I apologize for posting so often, though I do read every reply and react accordingly. I am just a very broken person, emotionally and perhaps mentally, and I've never had anybody (boo hoo) to give me the sort of masculine advice to just do something, so I've always sort of resorted to over-thinking things (which is occasionally useful) and finding reasons to doubt my instincts.
I'd say at this point go for it or move on. All the time spent here you could of asked her already. Why keep wondering about it? Nothing wrong with being nervous but this is extreme, enough so that I'd say see a psychologist or something.
Although this smells like just another excuse I think I kinda get how your mind works and why my 'advice' is useless. Sorry for bullying, I really wish you the very best with this chick
Someone else here said I have a "pathological fear of rejection" which I suppose is true, but more than rejection I think is the fact that I don't comprehend, on a sort of instinctive or emotional level, why anybody who did find me attractive and who I did ask out would then want to stay with me. Whether it's because of my family history (boo hoo) or whether it's something else I don't know, but for the longest time I've kept people at a distance and pretty much lived without having anybody I'm personal or intimate with. I know that if I came to love somebody I would feel dedicated to them in a sense (not like a beaten wife or something), because I feel like I know what loneliness feels like and the value of having somebody to turn to for support, reassurance and so on. But I just don't understand why anybody, or at least I don't feel I can believe that anybody, would feel a consistent sense of wanting me to be in their lives or who would not just cut me out of their lives should somebody else come along with a somewhat better existential offer, so to speak. This may all be an over-complication of some basic nervous-kid-is-scared-to-approach girl thing but it really dominates every relationship I have, that is with both genders. I also know that the reason the girl I briefly dated in 2014 was so into me and kept texting me long after we'd parted trying to see me again is because I didn't reveal myself to her, I just acted very consciously a role and character I knew, through analysing her disposition etc, she would be attracted to. I don't think this counts as manipulation as I didn't use her like that and it was more a defensive measure (she pursued me). But it's like since it's only me that really sees my own "real" or true, unguarded self and therefore has the sole judgement on its quality I find it difficult to really believe that I am a good or worthwhile person beyond the various acts / roles I carefully adopt for the sake of impressing others.
I was only joking with the bullying comment, I was referencing the "pls no bully" maymay.
But this is a big deal for me, as in life-changingly big. Not because I think she's the sole dolphin in a sea of whales (i.e. a uniquely beautiful fish in a sea of other but more repulsive fish (I realize a whale is a mammal or whatever)) or anything but I have acted this coldly and distantly with girls in the past who obviously liked me (not saying this girl does or did) and who I occasionally was attracted to. My pose of indifference might be a sign of some repulsive character trait on my part (vanity etc) though really I don't really get off on being looked at in general or anything like that.
I get the feeling this girl will intuit that it's a biggish deal for me to ask her out, and I hope she doesn't get a feeling that it's therefore some big burdensome thing and that she's responsible for what may be a broken-beyond-repair, fragile guy whose somewhat good looks and frame of cultural reference are by no means compensated by his neurosis and general brokenness.
Again I feel I know how to ask her, in the sense of asking her in a firm, serious but not intense tone of voice while communicating to her that I am dropping my guard and being frank with my usually guarded feelings. I feel also that she will appreciate this and may feel at least happy that I think she is attractive. But then again like others have said I am now acquainted with her personality and she may well be the type who, once bored with someone or having dismissed someone, then reacts without mercy towards them and won't think twice about saying "no thanks" and then informing others of my lack of social grace.
Have you spoken with a therapist yet? I don't think this is something you can fix with some /adv/ices, yet you clearly suffer. You don''t have to deal with this all by yourself anon.
I am skeptical about seeing a therapist because I don't want to make a diagnosis out of what may just be something that I can get over or something. I mean I've read a bunch of psychology books and so on and I sort of get that I have certain personality disorders, but I also feel that my sensitivity, introspection and perhaps even a tendency towards self-pity may all contribute to something that I can get over or, at least not allow to dominate my life, via practical actions and regulations of thought and behaviour. I think for a while I viewed myself as a victim or something, in my early teens at least, but really I'm repulsed by this notion now and do my best not to undermine myself and place myself in a position of inferiority, pity-seeking or anything like that. I would really just like to experience love, as in mutual love that transcends fear of rejection or abandonment or blackmailing etc, and this girl appeals to me both in an instinctive sort of way and in terms of the way she conducts herself and smiles and everything like that as someone I could potentially love, while most girls really don't seem like people I want to grow very close to. I don't want to trap myself by being stubbornly distant with her and regret it later on, but I'm also too guarded to just rush out and express my feelings without first analyzing whether doing so is likely to result in my humiliation etc.
Their aim is not to give you a diagnosis but to improve the quality of your living. They have seen hundreds of people dealing with similar problems like you and I think you're really suffering for no reason at all. How old are you btw?
I'm in my mid-twenties I guess. Also I really don't want to see a therapist, not for the moment at least. I just want to have a solid plan as to whether or not I should ask this girl out the way I intend to. I know if a bunch of people say it's an okay idea and to go for it I am more likely to do so (I realize needing the encouragement of others is sort of lame and may indicate the fact that I subconsciously feel she doesn't actually feel attracted to me, but still), though the fact a number of people have said I'm a creepy autistic person really does discourage me, as in highschool (boo hoo) I felt like this for a long time and still feel an intruder or something in social situations. I have come to value assertive, confident people however rather than spite them or whatever. I understand that a society functions best when its members are open, communicative, healthy and optimistic and I'm not trying to be edgy and act in an opposing manner for brownie points or attention etc. I mean if a reality check is what I need I'd rather get it here anonymously than embarrass myself and the girl I like and potentially others via second-hand embarrassment for my stupid actions.
honestly no. you don't have to small talk with a girl before asking her out. why would you want to waste all your wit, and charm trying to impress her, when she's just going to turn you down anyway amirite?
how would you know if she really loved you, or if she just agreed to date you because you said something that made her horny? that's lust, not true love. the less you say the better, that way you get a genuine response to her first impression. love at first sight, or no love at all is my motto.
I screwed up one time, and told a joke. crazy chick started stalking me, saying i was "so funny, and cool to be around" yuck i had to tell her i was gay to make her stop wanting my bodily fluids. don't make that mistake OP
I feel you bro, I have the same kind of personality... I've missed opportunities with girls I liked because I'm always overthinking everything... You know yourself better than us, but I am seriously thinking about finally going to see a psychologist myself, as I am aware that it's not a "normal" behavior... I mean I just need to look around me to see I'm alone with this intense fear of rejection IRL... No matter what choices you'll make, may they be successful.
Anon, I feel you. My advice? Simply ask her out. I think she allready knows you are quiet and maybe shy. So if you ask her out, she would know you are out of your league. And another advice, don't think too much about predicting a future human behavior. I also overthink fucking everything. But I learned some things is better not to think.
Good luck, she seems a good person.
Thank you for your support and good luck with your own endeavours.
Thank you also. How come you think she is a good person? Just curious what I've said to give that impression?
And again thank you /adv/. It sucks to think I would convince myself it's a good idea, do it, be rejected and fall back into myself. At least on here I can get some second opinions and in a way, as cowardly or whatever as it may seem, I feel like I can still come back here even if she does reject me.
I really think I have to just do it and not only trust my instincts but actually allow them to guide my behaviour in a way that may actually improve my life. If she says no I'll just smile and say I understand and hope she reconsiders. If she says yes then obviously my life won't be roses and lollipops but at least I won't feel the same kind of regret I'd feel if I sat on my hands or whatever the expression is.
I think she is a good person because she is don't dress and looks like a slut. And you also said she is quiet too. I like quiet people.
Please just ask her out, in the shy way, and let us know after.
you're thinking is wrong OP. you're applying logic where it doesn't belong. relationships aren't black and white, it's a spectrum.
you think if you ask a girl out, and she says no then it's over. (if this - then that)
9 times out of 10 she'll say no, and she may or not mean it. not because girls are liars, it because of hormones. you have to keep asking until she gets a restraining order, or you catch her when her hormones are in the right balance whichever comes first. It might take a few years of her saying no, before you get a yes out of her. Wednesday is when you ask, with the best chance of success. Mondays are almost always a no answer.
if you don't want to ask her. there are non-verbal ways to communicate. hold out your hand offering her a flower. it doesn't mean she wants to sleep with you if she takes the flower, and it's not the end of the world if she refuses, but most girls will take a flower unless they are allergic. also forget the flower idea if you are allergic to them, it looks bad offering someone a flower when you're wearing a haz-mat suit. after she takes the flower walk away. it wasn't a question, it was a statement
she will think about your statement, and she will make a statement to you the next time she sees you.
my first true love liked apples. she stared at me when i ate lunch, licking her lips. I had an apple tree, and ate an apple for lunch every day.
at first i didn't know she was looking at me eating apples, i thought she liked me. i don't remember how i figured out that she was just an apple whore and didn't really love me, but it hurt a lot. i sat on the other side of the room in 3rd grade so she couldn't see my apples.
Okay OP here.
I've been thinking of quitting my job for some time since it really isn't something I want to dedicate my life to and my wage is pretty low considering I work at the centre of New York.
So I'm going to ask this girl out. If she says yes then all good, if she says no I am going to quit my job and quit being a meek, humble faggot and pursue my ambitions in a more dedicated way.
Thank you for this thread. I am not feeling very confident about this right now but I've made my decision. This week I will ask this girl out should I see her.