As my parents said, "Nobody goes to work because they enjoy it. They have to go to work though as they have bills to pay. How many people actually enjoy working at McDonalds? If they got to leave, they would all leave."
I guess most people who disagree with me are probably minors who have never been to work and are romanticising a certain job too much or adults who are new to a job so the excitement still hasn't worn off and they haven't had enough time to learn about the workplace politics that already exists.
Not at all, I found a job I really enjoy. I work as a repair man at a museum. For the most part I get to choose my hours, and what I do during them.
I help out in other sections of the museum, like education, archives, ect so my job is very varied. The pay is good, even though it's only part time, and when I'm busy doing my job no one bothers me, so I can always take a break if I need to.
It's part time so I doubt you can have job security with that. You are just deluding yourself when you say that you enjoy your job or you mean that it's not the worse job out there.
I teach high school-aged children at a pretty swanky independent private school. The school expects me to attend extra-curricular activities like sporting events and socials which can be kind of a pain, but the kids are all the products of tiger parenting (and as such, are too afraid of their parents to mouth-off or misbehave too outrageously) and the pay is well above average. I get weekends off, one fortnight every thirteen weeks off, work with really great people and in a really receptive, caring environment.
The only time I feel unfulfilled is during the summer, when I have nothing to do and try to fill in my time with little projects.
But no, go ahead and tell me my lifestyle is a meme or something.
>Is the idea of "finding a job you enjoy" just a myth?
It applies to non-meme jobs and if their associated careears can develop you as a professional as much as you want.
Just then, yes, is the best you can do with your life.
Not a myth at all.
Doesn't happen. Tuition here is nuts. I couldn't afford to send my own kids here if I had any. These kids do not screw up or muck around, they're all too terrified of disappointing their parents to do so. The closest we got to a kid being bad was some bored math genius getting access to the student email and trolling his classmates by impersonating teachers, and he got suspended for three days. I don't know what his parents did to him, but he didn't say peep or step out of line again for the remaining two years.
Swinging and missing, buddy.
I enjoy my job and secretly would do it for a lot less money because it's so fulfilling.
It helps that, like the teacher and the mechanic who have already answered, it's a job that is constantly different and that is made up of a string of small victories that give instant gratification.
I can see how doing exactly the same thing day after day might be dreary (though some people enjoy the simplicity). But look for a profession that offers variety and the frequent gratification of successes, and like those of us who have answered, you can find yourself looking forward to work because it's more fun than idleness.
I'm a game developer and I absolutely love it, I never ever want to retire.
Granted it's not for everyone, and I'm at a great company. Shit, I love it so much the last 3 week vacation I took felt way too fucking long.
If you love what you do you will never work a day in your life, remember that.
You shouldn't think in absolutes anon, it is not a binary case of enjoy it or not.
Even people who really hate their jobs probably still find a minute to laugh with their coworkers now and then. And people who love their jobs will still have stressful times and things they don't want to do once in a while.
I think your parents are right in that most people, if they were handed $10M tomorrow, would quit their jobs or at the very least stop working full time. That doesn't mean they don't enjoy their jobs however.
I have the privilege of being a pilot and I enjoy it a lot - which doesn't mean that there aren't moments or times where I don't enjoy it 100%.
No matter what job you do and how much you love it eventually you will get used to the joy it brings you and the routine will do its part too
So its important not to needlessly aim for something you think you will enjoy forever - because eventually it will wear off a little.
Do something you can see yourself doing, that pays decent and all of that jazz.
Joy is just one of the many things you should look for in a career.
I started out in the military and switched to civil some years ago, that was nice to mix things up a little.
Yeah I agree that people should find something that pays the bills. Why would a smart high school student in the UK or somewhere pick Biology or Physics when he can just pick Law or Medicine? I mean, research is not something that can pay the bills.
I work as IT / Janitor in school...Never had any motivation to reach for some cool job and wandered aimelessly untill I got a job here in school.
Pay is nationals everage and since I'm not spending a dime on anything other than food and house upkeep its starting to stack up ridiculously.
I start work at 7:00 and work untill 15:00 doing mostly Janitor work, other time (30% or so) I help with computers their network and such.
No one bothers me or even notices me, so it can get lonely but im not that social to begin with. Its a grade school so I have a lot of down time in the summer, around 3 months of paid vacation.
I have no Idea if Im happy but I am not miserable and my stress levels are nonexistent.
On the side note. Here too we always listened to this "find a job you will enjoy working in"...I think its a load of bull and around 10 or so people I went to grade/high school probably misjudged their abilities and because of it ended up in really shitty situations
I can be proud of my work. That is all I ever wanted, to provide a service so I am lucky to do so.
For a person with strong ideals, I would always work a shittier job that met my ideals rather than something I didn't think mattered that made money.
STILL I had to try many jobs and see how they were for me. For the most part I am willing to work any job since nothing has disagreed with me before, you don't know how to make the most of it til you've tried.
I'm talking about people picking jobs that don't pay that well. Why not just pick a well-paid job and learn to love that job? I mean, even the best job in the world is stressful and suck in its own ways.
You should make it a goal to find jobs you like as much as possible, but accept that it's often not going to happen, and that when it does, you might be taking a financial hit. I think it's more likely to happen as you get older and have more experience. You can use these years to get experiences outside of work that will help you.
>you really want to do woodworking
>but don't have what it takes in experience or equipment
>work another job and do woodworking on the side >eventually build up a decently equipped shop and good skills
>maybe you find yourself making almost as much with the woodworking as with your job - maybe not enough to do it full time, but enough to switch to part time work
>if not, you still have a hobby that pays for itself and allows you to save for retirement faster
If you can't find a job that's what you like, you might find something related - a lot of hobby store employees are hobbyists or artists etc and can pick up materials or learn skills at work that will help them. My uncle did this with printing and was savvy enough (and lucky enough) to hit on a good model for a small printing business. He ended up making a ton of money and eventually selling the business to his son and retiring.
Also, you may be surprised at the kind of jobs you end up enjoying.
One last thing I'll say: don't stay with a job you hate, no matter what it pays. If you stay too long, you will still hate it but you'll be used to hating it, so you won't notice you're burning out. And you will burn out.
None of the answers are satisfactory. I mean, there is no reason why a smart kid should pursue a PhD in Physics or whatever when he's better off with Engineering, Law or Actuary. I mean, he can read about physics in his spare time while earning more cash in a much more stable job.
What is an easy well paid job? I used to think I would enjoy a job where I could sit around and read and play video games when things were quiet, I got that kind of opportunity and I found myself bored with it after a few months - I realized I wanted to be challenged at work, rather than killing time. Now I work somewhere else and it's more work, but I enjoy it more.
I did retail and it was shit. Either you guys are minors or trolling me.
Some women would prefer marrying a rich guy. The point is that the competition for rich guys are stiff so they are stuck with average guys.
Isn't being a government employee the best? It's not so hard and it is hard to be fired from such jobs.
It's still not as stressful as academia where you have to publish papers all the time or you will have trouble securing a contract? Surely those jobs can't be worse than a publish or perish job.
>What's wrong with being back?
Well, you post about the same fucking thing every time and it's annoying.
Your question has been answered many times, it's just not an answer that confirms your biases. So basically, you're a troll.
>there is no reason why a smart kid should pursue a PhD in Physics
Yes there is. Plenty. But you are far too low in intelligence to understand. You probably don't even know what physics is. Or a PhD.
I work at a law firm, it is very high stress, and you can wind up having to work 80 hour weeks. The compensation is great, but it comes at a cost. If researching and writing papers is something you enjoy, then you won't mind having to do your job.
You've done one shit retail job in your life. I am old enough to be your father and have had a variety of jobs and career progressions and still am progressing. And you're calling me underaged/neet?
You don't know shit about how the world works, kid. Listen to people who are older, more experienced, and smarter than you.
Kek implying a workplace with a lot of workplace politics and a publish or perish job is fun
>I am old enough to be your father
You can't prove it, can you? You might be a 24-year-old neet as far as I am concerned.
>Listen to people who are older, more experienced, and smarter than you.
My parents would agree with me.
I'm 39 and work at a pretty comfy job making 150k a year. I know many people who went into highly stressful jobs for the money. No one learns to love it. They keep hating it, and the only thing keeping them in is the pay and the possibility of making it big after years of torture. Many burn out and go into less stressful jobs which pay less.
Everyone has answered your questions already. What is still not clear to you?
Jesus Christ, why do you keep asking the same question? Go away.
It's been simply stated multiple times - jobs are not as simple as "love" or "hate," there is often a middle ground. You can't just "learn to love" something if it doesn't match up with your ideals or your passion.
You always mention focusing on your hobbies outside of work, but given that all you've ever done is some shifty retail job, you don't realize that free time comes at an absolute fucking premium. Spending your free time on a project isn't possible in the real, adult world, where if you want to make dinner, go to the gym, maybe see some friends, or especially maintain a family, you just simply don't have the time. I work 70 hour work weeks. When I get home, all I've got the energy for is a couple of hours of TV and a beer or two. I can't stand my job, and my last job that made just a bit less was much better. It's not worth sacrificing your life for more money that you don't get to use.
Those are limited and often highly specialized jobs. You don't just get to "pick what you wanna do" when you walk out of school - someone has to be hiring. There has to be demand. You're a naive kid.
Well you claim to know so much about the real world, yet you come here for 'advice' on why people choose to live the lives they do and reject every answer you don't like just because.
Unlike your assumptions, mine are at least based on something, whereas you just invalidate what other people say because you don't agree with the answer they gave.
if you're such a grown up grounded in the real world, it shouldn't matter to you what other people do.
So why major in Physics instead of Engineering when there is a great demand for engineers? Or Math instead of Actuarial Science for that matter?
>mine are at least based on something
Lol you can be making evidence up
My parents are reliable. They will not lie to me.
Because demand isn't ever-steady, and that physics or math degree might give you more flexibility in the future to find other jobs if you've found out one isn't for you. For example, I switched from Journalism to communications back when I was in school. Communications gave me more flexibility across industries than Journalism, where I'd be expected to be a writer/newscaster.
Your parents might not be "lying" to you, but they have an ulterior motive. Many parents would rather see their kids safe than happy. If my mom had her way, I would still be in the same job I was right out of college, because the thought of changing jobs genuinely scares her. She calls me up weekly or daily afraid I've gotten fired. My dad on the other hand pursued his dreams and is a much happier person for it. I don't hear him grousing in the morning about having to head to work or anything like that.
>Many parents would rather see their kids safe than happy
How is that a bad thing?
A guy with an Engineering degree can easily do a Master's in Physics whereas vice versa is harder.
Being safe is good though? Sucks having no income or earning very little. There must be a good reason why parents prefer their kids being safe. You guys are the ones who are biased here.
> A guy with an Engineering degree can easily do a Master's in Physics whereas vice versa is harder.
Bull. Fucking. Shit. It's rather the opposite. In all your threads you always shit on physics. Do you even understand what physics is? Pretty sure you don't, since otherwise you would not be saying such stupid things.
I remember you, OP. Don't think you haven't been recognized.
"Never workibg a day in your life", as Confucius is reputed to have said would happen if you chose a job you loved, is a myth. No matter what you do, and bo matter how much you enjoy it, there are always going to be boring logistical details that you don't enjoy. Even if that weren't the case, there would still always be the occasional bad day to interrupt your bliss. There is, in short, no such thing as the perfect, endless ecstasy that the follow-your-passion zealots often imply.
Despite this, not only is it perfectly plausible to choose a job you enjoy, it's a good idea. Job stress cannot be completely avoided, but it CAN be minimized, and minimum stress is good for the soul.
The other thing that follow-your-passion zealots ofteb forget is that you need to have passions outside AND outside the workplace, and they need to be different. If you fall into the trap of doing only one thing, you're going to burn out on it. No amount of passion can prevent burnout, because it's not a failure of passion. It's the human psyche's normal reaction to unbroken monotony: we are creatures of habit and routine, but there ARE limits.
This is why I suggest leaving your greatest passion outside work, and pick another passion as your career. Your greatest passion is the thing you're most likely to male room for in your life, but you have no choice other than to make rom for your job. By havibg an even greater passion outside your job, you make it easier to maintain room for both, and then each can recharge you for the other. This is how you keep from burning out on either one.
The bottom line, OP, is that you're only half-right. Following your passion into the workplace doesn't work nearly as well as the zealots had hoped. But you conclude from this that passion is meaningless, and that just isn't so. It has a place, and an important one. It's just not as simple as the phrase "follow your passion" implies.
80% are either hand-wavy "maybe permanently employed = home depot" or doing further probably useless postdocs.
Also, the results of this survey only include 50% response. The others were probably too embarrassed to participate because they were unemployed, thinking "why did I do such a useless degree"
Did you even read the report you linked to? It says physics PhDs have a 5% unemployment rate, which isn't bad. About half went into postdoc because they want to continue research in academia. The other half went into various jobs out there.
Also post docs are not a success, they are just a continuation of the degree, so that really doesn't count as being successful, it counts towards being able to delay the inevitable. Post-post-doc = just as unemployed.
>Guaranteed the other 50% are unemployed or working shit jobs.
Source: your ass.
Seriously, you are making things up. If you're going to make such a claim, you better back it up with facts.
Aren't you the one claiming physics degrees are employable? 50% nonresponse = unemployed unless proven otherwise. And this doesn't include what "permanent employment" is because they don't distinguish between permanent employment and permanent employment relevant to the degree. For your general student, physics is shit tier unemployable.
im 23, ive been managing an office for two years and I love it. sure there are certain parts that make me want to drag my feet, but other than that one particular part i do love my work here. though im also lucky enough that i work easy hours, lots of benefits, and more or less just do whatever i want. its like working on a creative project but with a little bit of math.
Post source. I'm not seeing anything like that in the link you provided.
>nonresponse = unemployed unless proven otherwise
That is the most idiotic thing I have read on 4chan all week. Nonresponse means you distribute it according to the responses.
Give us one link where it says that over 50% of physics graduates are unemployed or working shit jobs. You can't. Because it's not true. Your parents lied to you, poor thing.
Post-doc is like a gap year for many. People do it because it's enjoyable. It gives a bit of time to pause and think of what to do next. After finishing a post-doc, the employment profile would be the same as PhDs who didn't do a post-doc.
"We received post-degree information on about 48% of these degree recipients.
About 54% of these responses came from PhD recipients themselves, while the other 46% came from advisors."
Ok, let me rephrase.
Excluding post doc (vacation) and the temporarily/unemployed, by this survey, only 20% of phd physics graduates report being employed at a potentially permanent position, which may or may not be related to their degree.
Yeah, that's much better.
That's not how statistics work.
>52% of all graduates were not reached. That means I can pull anything out of my ass for those 52%!
>100% of post doc will be unemployed within a year!
You can't possibly be this dumb, can you? Okay, how about you post some statistics for engineers, since you think they are so much more employable? We'll use the same logic you did, and conclude that engineers have a 80% unemployment rate.
Well, it means the data we have in this thread suggests we can only counsel for about a 20% employment rate in terms of career guidance for advanced physics degrees.
I mean, I'm cynical about the results but you seem to just want to hand wave the unknown (possibly positive but probably negative) outcomes away without any data whatsoever. You should really work for pharmaceutical companies.
Because if everyone majored in engineering then there would be a demand for physics majors.
Getting an engineering degree isn't an instant job. You can have a Doctorate and there's still a chance you may never find a job or enter a job that's "beneath you"
Being miserable is not safe, whether you have hundreds of thousands, millions, or billions to your name. There were many millionaires that were "safe" either by inheritance or hard work, and they committed suicide. Money isn't everything my friend.
With respect to your parents - their thinking is outdated (and it's a shame they've wasted all this time thinking & living like that).
Master a skill that you LOVE ... teach other people how to do it and then make money out of it.
I'm a terrible employee. I've been fired more times than anyone. So I realised I'm better off in my own business.
So now I travel (in Costa Rica at the moment) and work from a laptop so I have the freedom to go anywhere.
You definitely shouldn't hate what you're doing ... and you don't have to go to college just because it's what's the done thing if you don't care for it.
What a fucking miserable existence if you keep listening to everyone's 'forced way of living' stories.
Be more than that!
>arguing but cant do math
50% no data = cannot confirm whether employed/unemployed
of the 50% that responded, 20% in post doc (not stable, = not employed)
10% in temporary jobs / unemployed (not stable)
20% in 'probably permament' position = stable employment - charitably interpreted
therefore, 20% stable employment
I see now why you keep making these threads. You are completely immune to facts and intelligence. No matter how many times people tell you, you simply won't believe anything but what your limited intellect lets you decide.
Even a middle schooler could teach you that the way you read statistics is completely wrong. How you are able to write on the internet is beyond me - your parents must be helping you out.
>people I went to grade/high school probably misjudged their abilities and because of it ended up in really shitty situations
As in "sold themselves short" or "gave themselves to much credit?"
>I'm a terrible employee. I've been fired more times than anyone. So I realised I'm better off in my own business.
>So now I travel (in Costa Rica at the moment) and work from a laptop so I have the freedom to go anywhere.
And what is your occupation now?