My parents are asking me if they should put the dog down.She can't hold her bowels and has a wheezing cough occasionally. She's a 16 year old pug. Why should I kill a dog over a minor inconvenience. I don't know if she is truly in pain to put her down.what should I do?
For me I think of it this way.
When Im old and can barely walk and lose control of my bowels, start wheezing, fuck anyone who wants to put me down. Theres still plenty to enjoy from life.
I don't understand how people can put their dogs down. I can just imagine leaving my dog and him looking at me with his big eyes, probably scared or happy wagging his tail while knowing that would be the last time I see him.
I cannot do it. My dog is a lab and is 10 years old. I will never put my dog down, I could not bear the overwhelming guilt knowing that would be my last memory of him and it was essentially me that killed him.
You're supposed to sit with them while they die. And forcing them to slowly die from a painful disease just because it hurts your precious feelings too much to do what ought to be done is far more selfish and cruel.
If their quality of life becomes compromised, then it's time to put the dog down.
If they're just whining that they now have to clean up after a dog because it can't control its bowels, then they were never ready to take care of a pet in the first fucking place.
>grandpa has an occasional wheezing cough and shits his pants sometimes
>welp, time to put you down, grandpa
does this sound OK to you? if your pug seems happy, then let him live. if he has the constant expression of agony and pain, then maybe ask whether he might be happier dead.
is it a minor inconvenience? stains all over the couch, the furniture, the carpet, everywhere, the constant horrible smell... and unless you are literally there 24 hours a day you cant really stop her or clean up fast enough that it doesn't leave smells and stains.
that being said, diapers might be an option but someone has to change em multiple times a day. this is hwere you learn how much you love her, cuz its nto mommy and daddies job to do this for you
>Selfish as fuck, forcing your mother to suffer just because you place an arbitrary value on life just for life's own sake.
Have you put down your mom yet anon. Im sure shes not in her prime anymore.
This has to be bait but there are people as fucking retarded as you.... The "very worst" scenario (i.e. terminal disease AND constant pain) is pretty much the only scenario in which pets are euthanized. Most people who suffer such diseases wish they would be euthanized, or wish they were allowed to kill themselves.
I don't know why nobody has mentioned this yet, but have you taken her to the vet and asked their advice? As others have said, you should only put your pet down if the pet is suffering, your vet should be able to tell you if she is actually in pain or if she is just shitting alot and wheezing a bit without pain.
Incontinence is usually a sign that it's 'time'... not just because it's an inconvenience to deal with, but because it's a sign that they're starting to lose control of their bodily functions. your dog might be starting to shut down, 16 years is a really long time for a dog to live. Consult your vet, ask what they think.
Generally when theylosebowel controlitsagoodsign that the rest of their body is shutting down. If the dog is happy and you don't mind cleaning the shit up then whatever, but if the dog is often confused, in pain, scared, it's mercy to let them go.
I had to put mine down last year, and we should all be so lucky as to go surrounded by loved ones, shot up with opiates, and then allowed to drift gently to sleep as our heart stops. When our time comes may we all be so fucking lucky.
For me I think of it this way.
When Im old and can barely walk and lose control of my bowels, start wheezing, fuck anyone who wants to keep me alive. Life is horrific past the natural expiration date.
Sympathies for your dog buddy, I hope I'm as brave as you when I have to say goodbye to mine.
You havent seen how happy old people are.
But you are right. People dont deserve to live once they are no longer in their prime. The value of someone elses life is for others to decide.
I sure hope you dont have grandparents past the expiration date.
My sister refused to put her dog down when he completely refused to eat. The vet told her it was most likely just a mater of time because he had some type of bowel infection. She force feed him liquidized food and one weekend I was watching him alone. He suddenly collapsed in the yard trying to shit. I hauled him inside as he shat himself uncontrollably.
Then I spent the last hour and a half of his life watching him slowly die as blood hemorrhaged out of his nose, mouth and ass.
I tried to keep eye contact and tell him "It's okay, you've been a great dog, it's okay to go, just go it's okay. It okay just try to go to sleep" I told him that again and again and pet him until he let out one last gurgled gasp and shuddered the last o his life out while blood spilled from his mouth and nose. I'm not sure if he was even aware I was there. He was completely unresponsive.
In the future I'd much rather just stroke my dog as he falls asleep peacefully. Maybe take him out for a nice really fun day before, let him eat a full on T-bone steak or something. It's not like you can't inform the dog they are dieing.
When a dog refuses to eat its because something is seriously wrong with him. A person in that same situation would have been on dialysis.
Animals in general fight harder to live and value their life more than people do so when you see it refuse to eat its probably given up.
Also fuck you. Why didnt you immediately take him to the vet.
I would kill a person if they were sure to live the rest of their life (short or long) in pain, and if they sincerely asked me to.
Unfortunately an animal doesn't have the higher brain function to be able to ask this of you, so you have to assume that it is what they want. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would want a doomed life of pain to be cut short, and those who don't have deep philosophical reasons not to want it - animals aren't capable of having a philosophical desire to live.
>so you have to assume that it is what they want
That is bullshit you made up because you dont value your life in those situations. Animals always want to live and will fight someone to the death if they knew they were trying to kill it.
Wanting to live isnt a philosophical desire. Its an innate instinct all living things share. Wanting to die is a philosophical desire. Its unknown whether an animal is capable of wanting to die as of now. Youre just projecting on the animal and its sickening.
3 am at night. No vets open. Was 15 at the time so couldn't even drive.
If you took one look at the dog you could see he wasn't going to be alive for very long.
I told my sister I found him dead and he must've died in his sleep.
> I'm pretty sure the majority of people would want a doomed life of pain to be cut short
No, people who want to die in doomed situations are usually old people with a terminal illness no longer capable of leaving a hospital bed and constantly shitting themselves. If you dog is bound to a hospital bed with a terminal illness barely capable of moving and will probably never be able to leave that bed again then you have an argument.
You are naive. You have never been in prolonged, truly severe physical pain, and you have never had a loved one nor a beloved animal in be that situation and been in the position of having to make decisions for them.
You simply don't know what you're talking about. It's time for you to stop posting on this subject. You really don't want to argue with me about this.
>You have never been in prolonged, truly severe physical pain, and you have never had a loved one nor a beloved animal in be that situation and been in the position of having to make decisions for them.
Both of those cases are false. You are just forcing your philosophical bullshit on animals who only want to live.
I guarantee you that you dont have an argument.
You realize I said only if their quality of life is compromised, right? As in supporting the idea that this dog is still reasonably healthy and happy and shouldn't be put down?
I think people should be allowed to agree to euthanasia when dealing with incurable mental or physical diseases or are incapable of any human daily functions without assistance 24/7, however.
That was my first reply to you; I'm a different poster. And no, you have never been in either of those situations; similar ones, perhaps, but not as dire as the kind of thing I'm talking about here. You have no experience with the level of pain I'm talking about. It's just obvious from how you're talking. OK?
I'm sure you feel very strongly about this and that's OK, but you're just not qualified to have this conversation.
>It's just obvious from how you're talking
No its obvious you havent from how you are talking. You dont know what its like being in a shitty condition with a wrong diagnosis but still wanting to live ignoring what the doctors say. Tell me, what have you experienced to make your statements not bullshit. Because I have experienced both of those.
two of the cats my family owned died of sudden respiratory diseases over the corse of a day. I wasn't there but what my family relays sounded pretty frightening for the animal, I wish I would have been there, I would have .22 or to the brain them so fast and felt better than I do knowing they drown in their own lung fluids. Family was mystified and thought me barbaric for mentioning it.
Thanks, man. He was 15 years old. He traveled the world with me California, Washington, Germany, around Europe. I had some good cries for sure, but he had a more adventurous life than a lot of humans I know. Women loved him, he went to parties, got trashed, played on beaches, in deserts, forests in Europe I could hit the beer gardens with him. So I was sad, but he was a really, really lucky dog.
I hesitated a little long though. By the time we did it he felt like a ghost already.. Blind, bumping into things.. Throwing up his food, flinching when you go to pet him because he couldn't sense you there. Once they doped him up he looked happier than he had been in months.
I literally cried for an hour reading this, i could not imagine, ending my dogs ,life, no matter what the circumstances.
Ihonestly could never ever do that, life has to take its course, i love my dog.so fucking much and am actualy balling my eyes out writing this
> life has to take its course
The life you are providing your dog is as artificial as the death you would be giving him by putting him down. In a feral/wild dog situation dogs with painful ailments die off instead of being kept clinging to life because their presence pleases you.
Euthanizing a dog hurts a lot, I did it. Think of what it is better for the dog. The death of the dog will only affect the people close to the dog. Do not care for what people say, they have not been taking care, or providing food and a home to your dog.
let me put it to you this way, pugs are abominations. just breathing hurts them. a 16 year old pug is barely clinging to life as it is, the respiratory issues are only going to get worse and cause more pain and panic as she struggles to blow off enough carbon dioxide to not suffocate due to her facial structure. and the bowels aren't just an inconvenience, it's a sign that her body literally cannot function properly anymore and she's losing control. at this point humane euthanasia would be the best thing to do for her, it's NOT going to get easier for her
>source: worked in an emergency vet and two animal shelters
>animals who only want to live
because animals are not aware of the concept of death. they do not understand that no matter how much they struggle, they won't get better. if animals had the brain capacity to understand death and that they WILL die either way, one way with pain and one way without, then your point would still stand
to animals, pain is the worst possible thing out there since they don't understand death. PTS is better than a long drawn out agonizing death because they don't understand that they're going to die, they don't understand what they're losing
>because animals are not aware of the concept of death
No this is false. If you didnt understand the concept of death you couldnt avert it. There are animals who bury their dead and mourning has been a clearly observed phenomenom amongst animals. There are also studies that advocate that animals are capable of suicide when things get too bad but they are usually dismissed as if the animal was just in hysteria from the circumstance.
Animals are capable of knowing when their body is shutting down. Like I said before which is something that is medically known, many animals, when nearing death will stop fighting. Stop eating, stop responding. this isnt always due to the direct medical problem.
You are literally assuming animals arent capable of valuing their life and its disgusting. An animal will bite off its arm to live and it rarely gives up. Its not for you to decide when it should call it quits. You dont get to decide the value of its life.
it's funny how people who think like you also don't work with animals in any capacity
and you don't seem to understand that PTS is an option when quality of life cannot be restored. try saving a dog going through chronic seizures to the extent that they can hardly walk and vomit as soon as they try to eat and cannot control their bodily functions and screeches in fear and agony if you even touch them. tell me then that natural death is always right, hell, their entire existence is unnatural.
>If you didnt understand the concept of death you couldnt avert it
not true. animals understand that negative stimuli = bad and tries to do whatever they can to stop it due to instinct, not that they understand it means death. fear of death requires posessing self awareness, and the animals discussed here do not, or at least never been proved to. hell, it's why dogs and cats don't pass the mirror test.
>they are usually dismissed as if the animal was just in hysteria from the circumstance
which does make sense, in all honesty. the studies you're referencing aren't nearly developed or reputable enough to use as proof of much
>many animals, when nearing death will stop fighting
some do, some don't. I've seen plenty of dogs who were fighting until they just dropped dead. or they just slowly degraded in pain until they were in too much exhaustion and discomfort to fight it anymore, do you really think that's the most humane thing to do?
unlike you, i went down that road. I don't know what kind of monster would knowingly either: put their dog through weeks/months of pain and suffering because they're too much of a pussy to let their best friend go, or go to help their best friend pass and just leave them in the room alone in their final minutes.
when the time comes, be enough of a man to make that call so your dog doesn't suffer
> try saving a dog going through chronic seizures to the extent that they can hardly walk and vomit as soon as they try to eat and cannot control their bodily functions and screeches in fear and agony if you even touch them
Any human would be put on dialysis in a condition that bad. Not killed off.
>animals understand that negative stimuli = bad
You are ignoring how every animal averts death.
>do you really think that's the most humane thing to do?
Yes, it clearly wants to live.
You are just trying to excuse murdering animals because you think they are inferior to you. Honestly disgusting.
>I don't understand how people can say they love dogs but get a pug.
Fucking this. Buying an animal that's been bred to be all fucked up is like raising a retard for your amusement.
are you seriously suggesting that a dog be kept on dialysis?
because there's not a single dog alive that would be happy with that arrangement. That's no life for a dog-- it's barely a life for a human. My uncle actually did end up killing himself because he fucked up his kidneys with drugs/alcohol to the point he would need dialysis to live for the rest of his life and he didn't want that
Im not suggesting you put a dog on dialysis. Im saying that being in a bad condition doesnt mean you should kill someone. I
Also you dont know how dialysis works. I know so many people on dialysis. And theyve never thought about suicide. Sure its a lower quality of life, but they are perfectly happy. many old people skip dialysis and do whatever the fuck they want. Its not for you to decide.
And people that eat meat.
Also people who eat any foodstuff grown where a field was plowed (seriously, have you seen what some of those machines do to small rodents and even things like possum or fox?) Also people who eat any food that requires wide swaths of habitat for various critters be cleared/destroyed.
And of course anyone who reproduces.
Good thing we humans are asshole animals wired to stay alive and pass on our genes just like the rest of nature and so are able to ignore the terrible things we do to other critters or we'd have a problem. Telling humans to treat other people or animals nicely is like telling a meth addict to share - it works until shit starts running out.
In fairness, many pug owners get their dogs from shelters, not breeders. The only person I know who actually owns a pug freely acknowledges that it's unconscionable to breed animals like that, but the least she can do is make sure at least a few of the ones that already exist go to good homes.
I could never do that, though. I'd feel sad every time I looked at the poor fucking thing.
I am glad that people like your friend exist.
I can see what you're saying. It's a good point. I hate it when people talk themselves out of feeling bad for the bad things they do - I was arguing that believing killing things for our selfish benefit because we see them as inferior just happens to be endemic to our existence.
I'm going to put it really simply for you, Dense Motherfucker.
When you adopt a dog, you take several serious responsibilities upon yourself. You owe your dog a good life -- this means ample affection, mental stimulation, exercise, and adequate medical care. You also owe your dog as painless a death as possible.
If your dog develops a terminal illness, that doesn't mean you have to go out and euthanize it immediately. I certainly didn't, when I was in that situation. I let that little fucker hang on as long as I could possibly justify it to myself, and did all I could to help him hang on even longer.
But eventually you're going to be faced with a choice. You can let your best friend in the world slowly suffocate to death, or perhaps have seizure after seizure until he overheats and dies, or perhaps stop eating and drinking and slowly wither away to nothing, or perhaps almost stop urinating because of the tumors pressing on his bladder (very painful) until his organs finally fail entirely ...
or you can muster up a tiny shred of moral courage and make his passing as dignified and painless as possible. Yes, a few hours or days earlier than he otherwise would have died, but between you and me, whether it's for an animal, a loved one, or myself, I'll take that second way over suffocating or starving or internally hemorrhaging to death any fucking day of the week. It's simple cruelty to inflict that sort of thing on a thinking and feeling being.
If you don't have that kind of moral courage, then that's fine. But please never be a pet owner.
I love dogs. But they're pets, not people.
So I argue that factoring in your own quality of life is important. Can you afford to spend the money dragging a sick old animal's life out? Is it enjoyable to wait on a slowly dying animal whose own existence is painful and miserable?
A dog deserves a good, happy life, but not necessarily the longest life possible. So focus not on some notion that you're killing it by not forcibly prolonging its existence, but rather that you gave it a life worth living in the first place.
I don't necessarily disagree, per se, but I don't love this argument in favor of euthanasia. Just because it muddies the waters a little bit.
There are people who, by their own choices, treat their pets basically like people. I'm one of them. I can't help it; I get really loopy about animals. When my dog developed cancer it seriously felt like one of my siblings or my best friend was dying. I did everything I could to save him; it wasn't enough. I still had to euthanize him. It was the only humane thing to do in the end.
I don't like this argument because it lets people like me say shit like, "well, maybe he's not that close to his dog, but I AM, and I'm not going to kill him just for my own convenience." In other words, it lets people like me shirk our responsibilities as pet owners. And not shirking that final responsibility is really, really fucking important.
We owe it to our dogs, no matter how much we want to wriggle away from it at the time.
I don't care what decisions you make about your subservient quadruped
The waters are muddy, though. If they weren't, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
I'm sure there are a lot of people on here and elsewhere who would say I have no business owning a pet if I won't do everything in my power to make it live as long as possible. And I might say they have no business owning a pet when they feel they must treat a short-lived companion like it was their own child. Both claims would probably be unfair, especially considering that we're both ultimately doing right by our pets.
Anyway, this thread is kind of a downer, so I'm going to go pet my dogs and talk baby gibberish to them. All three of us get a kick out of that.
All right, then.
Here's a question for you. What makes those two situations
>your dog has cancer
>your grandfather has cancer
different from each other?
It's not hard. Hmm? Is it perhaps that other human beings are capable of understanding the concepts of life, death, terminal illness, and euthanasia, weighing the pros and cons and making an informed decision for themselves? Perhaps it wouldn't be appropriate to make that choice for somebody capable of making it themselves?
If a family member of mine had cancer, and it was extremely painful (as some forms of cancer are), and they were brain-dead, Terry Schiavo style, or otherwise unable to make that choice for themselves, with no hope of recovery, yes, I'd absolutely consider euthanasia.
There's no logical inconsistency here; you're just a zealot and you're not very smart.
I hate all assholes like you OP.
Why haven't you told the whole truth to the good people of 4chan?
Why haven't you mentioned how your lovely pug stinks up every room it enters? Why haven't you told them about her legs sliding under her because of the onsetting displasia?
Why haven't you mention all the fucking secretion you have to clean out from their face atleast 2 times a day.
If you dont do that shit and leave it to your parents then they deserve kill that disgusting excuse for a dog.
Pugs are an abomination, and so are the people who get those inbred mongrels