My best female friend had an abortion. Shes been trying to play it off as no big deal but I can tell shes upset by it. She tries to talk about it but I immediately change the subject and run away.
I do this because I disapprove enough to consider breaking off our friendship but I dont want to face that reality yet so Im just running.
What should I be prepared for when we talk about this?
>What are some good reasons too?
"Good reasons" is subjective. What may seem like a good reason to her will probably be inexcusable by someone like you. She could've been raped, it could've been a mistake, it could've been the wrong time, etc. If she doesn't feel like she's ready, for whatever reason, it's up to her. It's on you, as a friend, to be supportive and understanding, not judgmental.
>You cant be supportive and understanding for every action a friend takes.
I didn't say "every action." This is clearly a personal decision, one that OP's friend can't take back, and it is causing her a great deal of mental anguish. Do you shit on the people around you every time they make a decision they regret, even if you happen to disagree with it? If so, you're a terrible friend.
I only shit on people when the make a decision that should be shitted on if that makes sense.
If a friend makes a really bad decision like this though then theres not really anything to say. Which is why I dont want to talk about it. Because its just going to end the friendship. But its going to end at this rate anyways.
>I only shit on people when the make a decision that should be shitted on if that makes sense.
But in this case, it really doesn't make sense. You don't know why she did it or what she went through.
>If a friend makes a really bad decision like this though then theres not really anything to say. Which is why I dont want to talk about it. Because its just going to end the friendship. But its going to end at this rate anyways.
So you're just going to let your extreme views tarnish a friendship because you can't handle something that doesn't even involve you? Sounds like they're better off without you.
>Do people really think it doesnt matter if they arent involved.
It doesn't matter because it's a personal decision she already made! She already went through with it! Of course it doesn't matter now.
Oh, I didnt realize anythings fine as long as its not yours.
At least the baby and the father are involved. Thinking otherwise is just selfish.
>Of course it doesn't matter now
Yeah same goes for every dead person in a foreign country. Not yours and theyre through now.
This is who she is and its not something I can just accept.
I dont hate anyone. But that doesnt mean I have to approve. Im sure you hate me though.
Funny how you call me bigoted but youre the one filled with hate and wish death upon those who dont agree with you.
What is the issue? You clearly don't want to be her friend because she is pro-choice and acted on it. Why do you need to console her? Why do you care what she's feeling if you're just going to shit on her anyway?
Cleanest solution is to cut and run and make new friends. You're not the first person to end a friendship over something like this and you won't be the last.
>At least the baby and the father are involved.
1) It's not a baby. 2) It sucks for the father, but ultimately, it's her body that has to go through with the pregnancy and she'll be the one to take care of the baby when it's born. Do you even know who the father is? Do you know if she was raped? Do you even care?
>This is who she is and its not something I can just accept.
Then don't. Tell her you won't speak to her anymore, give her the reason why, and then stop talking to her. Keep it to text, if you're scared. But end the friendship cleanly.
Look, she was the only one who knew it, who had it be a part of her, maybe even loved it. It's probably hardest on her that she had to terminate the pregnancy.
You haven't given any details, so I'm guessing she hasn't told you much. Maybe you aren't such great friends to begin with. You aren't going to lose anything by asking her.
If you really want to know, listen and hope she talks. Don't interupt at any point, especially since you're super fired up about it and that'll make her close down.
>You clearly don't want to be her friend because she is pro-choice and acted on it.
True but shes been my friend for a good while now. It is counter intuitive not to help a friend in need. Ive had friends do horrible things but they were all usually things that could be corrected and compensated for and I could convince them to do better. But theres no going back for her. My first time here.
To my knowledge no depending on the contraception. I think there are some that do though. Its been a while since Ive looked into how contraceptives works and Im sure the methods have been changed a bit.
You are not friends. You care more about her medical life than her friendship. And you sound like a pushy fixer type, so you probably need meeker friends than her.
Leave her alone, you suck at friending.
You value a clump of cells more than your supposed friend. Like, you don't give a shit that a baby would have ruined her life, possibly fucked her up medically or maybe even killed her, who knows.
Do you also cut off people who don't donate blood or organs? Do you yourself do either of those? If someone demanded your kidney would you give it to them?
Im not religious. Possible agnostic. Not a raving atheist at least.
>what's wrong with sending the baby straight to heaven to be with God
Even an atheist can see life is important.
>It's not a baby
Yeah neither are people is third world countries.
>Do you even know who the father is
Pretty good idea unless she was hooking up with guys on the side and didnt mention being raped.
>Do you even care?
Of course I care. If I didnt I would have immediately discarded her into the trash for doing this.
>teehee I had unsafe sex
>decided to terminate a life, no biggie
>omg, like, support me
>wow, just wow
>omg are you judging ME???
You know, I'm not some hard-line pro-lifer, but it's not like she just accidentally nicked someone's car in a parking lot. She made a serious decision that had an impact on multiple lives. Maybe she does regret it, but you acting like this is something that can just be brushed off as if it were nothing, is completely idiotic.
So OP, if it were my friend I'd try to find out what the circumstances were. If it was rape/terminal illness/retardation for the child, or threatening to the life of the mother I'd be supportive, but if it was just to avoid responsibility of a child, cut her off, and publicly shame her.
>Leave her alone, you suck at friending.
Go read some philosophy on what a friend is. It is you who sucks at being a friend. Im sure you enjoy only having people you use for entertainment and utilities though. I like to go for the third type.
>It's probably hardest on her that she had to terminate the pregnancy
Its a heavy decision and one thats ultimately wrong barring a few scenarios.
I want to know but I know that its unlikely that its going to change how I feel about what shes done. Thats what Im afraid of. That its going to cement it.
I always felt like the person ejaculating had more responsibility over someone getting pregnant. Think about how often dudes try to weedle their girlfriends into letting them stick it in bare, then come in like 2 minutes because *suprise* it feels good. (Gosh who knew???)
Men absolutely pressure their girlfriends into abortions. I'd consider that, OP. Since you seem to care about her and she seems to be avoiding the subject.
Id care if she were at medical risk from the child. Its one of the few reasons I could accept and probably the only one I couldnt blame unless the medical issues was something really minor.
But I dont want to go in hoping that she got an abortion for medical reasons.
>Maybe she does regret it, but you acting like this is something that can just be brushed off as if it were nothing, is completely idiotic.
How am I acting like it's something to be brushed off? It's already done. She can't un-abort the baby. Instead, because of her decision, she's going to have to suffer for the rest of her life, wondering, "What if...?" She doesn't need to be kicked when she's down, especially if OP doesn't know the circumstances.
I like how you dodge the questions about donation. You don't give a shit about "life", you jsut want a woman to get her comeuppance for having sex and demand that she sacrifice her body, her money, and her time while not placing the same demands on yourself or anyone else.
Guess what you're just as much a murder as her, there at hundreds of thousands of people who have just as much of a "right to life" as a clump of cells who die from lack of available organs but I don't see you offering your organs and if I tired to force you to give someone your organs I know you would resist.
Yeah I want to genuinely find out the circumstances but only if its something serious. If its not I still want to know but thats only because of how it affects us.
If I also dont feel like its right to ask for specifics on this topic since shes having a hard time and itd be primarily for me.
I would consider myself pro-life in theory, if not in practice. I girl I went to high school a few years ago got pregnant when she was 14 and was too scared to tell her parents about it early on, so she ended up getting an abortion quite late into her pregnancy. It made me genuinely sad, but it made me consider a few things.
- What defines a human being, and is it only murder if it is a human being? At what stage in the pregnancy is it considered to change from a cluster of cells to a human? Is it conscious? Does it only have a right to live if it it's outside the mother? If the baby is considered a human after a certain stage, why does the mother have the right to abort it, only because of the fact that it's inside her body temporarily? Should the father have a right to object to the abortion? Do rape babies have any less right to live than other babies- its not their fault?
I had a pregnancy scare once with an older man and I told one of my close male friends about it. He suggested I get the morning after pill but didn't mention abortion. He said that he had lost a lot of respect for me because it was only a one night stand and I was being irresponsible. In general he was just quite shocked, but he said that we were still cool.
My father's mother was raped as a 16 year old and got pregnant with him. Coincidentally he turned out to be a deadbeat asshole, but I guess for me, its a good thing she didn't have an abortion. And also compared to his brothers who weren't rape babies, I guess you could say my father turned out the least fucked up.
Make of that what you will.
You've never been a normal woman in a relationship with a terrible guy.
But I don't know if she is either, so whatever. It's just a theory like everything else Anons postulated here.
Just ask her. Christ, motherfucker.
But it's completely relevant. We all have the right to bodily autonomy, and one person's right to life when it depends on the body or life of another. You can't say a woman has to sacrifice herself for a clump of cells, but that no body else has to sacrifice themselves for an adult or child that needs an organ.
So you really don't care about life, like I said, you just want to punish women for having sex.
Consenting to sex doesn't mean you consent to have another person leach off you. And if you want to get technical, sex doesn't cause a baby- Implantation, which is random and out of everyone's control, does. And most of the time implantation doesn't happen. On top of that, all humans do have a responsibility to one another, because we are social creatures who live in society and work best when we are reasonable for each other. If I'm forced to carry a baby, you should be forced to give me your liver. You chose to live in a society and the benefits in includes and it's for the greater good.
I care about life. But forcing someone to save someone else against their wishes and forcing them not to kill someone else against their wishes are simply not the same situation.
Oh, I was just saying a terrible abusive person could absolutely manipulate a woman into getting an abortion. He could drive her there and threaten her, threaten her friends, whatever. Abusive relationships are insane. The amount of damage that can be inflicted on a mind is scary.
You seem kind of sheltered or maybe naive? You're bringing up human life 101 topics but you're thinking is really black and white.
You don't care about life, or else you would put saving someone's life above another persons wishes. Those two scenarios are the same thing; they're both involve a person saying "No, you can't use my body" which results in the death of another.
Are you a virgin?
>cares more about a clump of cells than an actual person
>Demands everyone just not have sex, despite that never happening and not following himself
The only argument you have is "I hate women and women who have sex should be punished."
No, it's logical and consistent.
I don't even need to dehumanize them, because again, everyone's right to life stops when it depends on the life or body of another. It's anti-choicers who want to make clumps of cells the exception over everyone else. But that's literally what they are- a clump of cells
It's anti-choicers who are dehumanizing. Oh, this thing that has no connections to anyone or has done anything is more important than adult women. Women's only use is as an incubator, their hopes, dreams, aspirations, friends, family, wishes, and ultimately even their lives should all be disregarded for a BAH-BEH. Damn dirty sluts should be punished with a baby for having sex, and I hope god kills them while he's at it!
>replaced abortion with some terrible crime would you also dismiss her of the responsibility.
Battered women being forced into criminal activity by their partners is a real thing, and I have a lot of sympathy for them.
Fear can make anyone do unexpectedly terrible things. Fathers can rape their daughters at gunpoint, etc.
Don't make me derail anymore.
If you claim to care about life, saving life should take priority above all else. If you say a women has to give her body for a BAH-BEH, you also have to say you have to give your body for someone else.
Western whores are waking up and forming gangs that are beating your kinds ass in the streets tbqh
Your own women are starting to wake up and realizing they're humans and their only purpose isn't to wipe your ass and pop out babies tbph
Your book will be burned in the streets and disappear into the echos of history tbqh senpai
>If you claim to care about life, saving life should take priority above all else
This is stupid and quite the logical leap.
I care about buying a tv, but buying a tv doesnt take priority above all else.
If you claim that you care that all people have a "right to TV" then you should care that everyone have access to a TV, not turn around and say "Oh, I only care that people who can afford a TV have one, but I don't care about people who can't afford one". THAT would be retarded, just as saying "Oh I care about "life" and "right to life" except for these people who are literally dying lol" is fucking retarded.
I didnt say I didnt care about the people who are dying. Thats another logical leap.
And as far as the tv analogy you are saying
'people have a right to a tv so everyone should sell their organs to raise money so that everyone can buy a tv"
Its stupid and illogical.
No one said that.
You asked what a "terrible guy" might have to do with someone getting an abortion and there are absolutely men who have made girls fear for their life / coerced them to get an abortion.
Just follow the links back through the conversation and you'll piece it together.
But you don't care about them. You won't do what needs to be done to save them.
What I'm saying is that everyone has aright to a TV, so TV providers and people with TVs should be forced to give up their to give everyone a TV. That is logical and consistent.
As another real-life example, people you support the "right to medical access"- which btw is an extension of the right to life- don't advocate or US style capitalist system, because it leaves gaps where some people are treated while others are not because they can't afford it. They support government-run public access systems like what Canada and Europe has. It would make no sense for them to support the first system, just as it makes no sense to say women and only women have to support fetuses but you don't have to support people with bad livers.
>What I'm saying is that everyone has aright to a TV, so TV providers and people with TVs should be forced to give up their to give everyone a TV
If you think this is logical you are actually stupid.
No, you dumbfuck. But I'm glad you're super-enlightened to the plight of others.
I'm saying I think you misunderstood how they meant "it's not a baby." I don't view people in 3rd world countries as 'not conscious', or not human. They are, there's no debating that. Nor do I view them as "well, I'M not involved, so oh well."
But there is a debate on what constitutes a human being. Sperm alone are... bizarre when you think about it. Could they be considered a form of life? Anyway, that's going down a whole different path that will never be completed. The bottom line is. you picked a shit analogy, and whatever valid points you have are now being lost because of the dumb shit that's pouring out of your skull.
>then what's wrong with sending the baby straight to heaven to be with God?
Google this question. If you don't understand even the most basic theology then you shouldn't discuss it.