We were out eating at a new pop up and my phone ran out of battery so I had to borrow his to take some photos of the food (this was to do with my job, not random instagramming) and came back home. He was in the kitchen and I jumped on his phone to send over the photos to myself - to which he reacted really weirdly. It's never been an issue before in regards to me using his phone so - unfortunately and regrettably - I let curiousity get the better of me.
What flashed up was a message from "Charlie" telling him "I had a dream about you last night x" I glanced further up to see they had both been trying to arrange a time to meet up. My stomach sank. I didn't look any further because I felt terrible for looking in the first place and told myself maybe I was overreacting.
My boyfriend came back into the room and understandably things felt awkward, he kept pressing me on it but because I felt so bad about reading the messages in the first place I didn't say anything. He then left the room with his phone and returned - With the lock on his phone changed (something that hasn't changed in the whole time he's had the phone.) Things continued to feel awkward and so I went to bed. He followed me up ridiculing me for being "paranoid" (even though I had never even mentioned the messages) then showed me his phone in an attempt to reassure me - at which point I noticed he had deleted all the messages between him and "Charlie."
I have since messaged him saying I saw the message to which he's come up with every excuse under the sun possible including "I deleted the messages to see if you had read my phone" (which doesn't even make sense, right?)
It's also worth to note that we generally run in the same social circles and discuss who we've talked to so the fact he's not even mentioned this girls name is a flag to me.
Hes now complaining i don't trust him enough but is it any wonder? Am I right in the way I'm thinking? I'd just like some perspective on this.
Update: I asked him some questions and got some answers:
I don't believe you've answered my questions in truth. So ill give you a chance and lay them out again.
1. Why have you never mentioned her name? Never came up in convo. The same as I've never mentioned people like my old friend *removed* or *removed* or *removed*
2. Why have you been trying to meet up with her? Thought it would be nice to catch up. I've lost a lot of friends so thought making a connection again would be good. Like I said above many years ago we used to hook up for a drink after work or a coffee.
3. Why did you get defensive and start ridiculing me for being "paranoid" when clearly there was something to be suspicious of? (And nothing to do with me being paranoid) I wasn't being defensive last night I was firstly pissed off that you wouldn't tell me what was wrong. I first thought *removed* email had in someway upset you. I then felt you were being paranoid (which you clearly are as you're accusing me of all sorts based on a couple of text messages).
4. Why did you change the lock on your phone?If you had already read my messages (which you had) it made no difference if I changed the lock on my phone. I simply wanted to see if it was possible. It would have been easier for me to have simply deleted the message and left my phone alone.
5. Why did you delete all the messages between you and her? Because of reactions like this. If you had simply called me out straight away I would have talked it through with you. If I wanted to be sneaky about it I would deleted any messages immediately they came in and not let you touch my phone.
Should I accept this? I still don't see why he deleted the messages, surely not the sign of an innocent man..?
Update number 2:
"Years ago she hit on me when she was drunk. It was laughed off the next day. She's married to *removed* and has a toddler. Maybe she thinks I'm free game again now I'm getting divorced? Her message raised a giant red flag to me. You will know (as you read the messages) that I didn't reply or arrange a date/time to meet. I had (and still have) no intention of meeting up with her now. I feel like I'm on trial! That everything I do is under the microscope, which in fairness is fine as I have nothing to hide"
Update 2 is fishy as hell, AS IN YOU OP! "Maybe she thinks I'm free game again now I'm getting divorced?" Are you fucking around with a married guy? If so then you deserve a cheater like him!
Otherwise, do you want an STD? This dude will give you one eventually. Make the choice eevee
Your updates are confusing as hell. You sound like a really gentle, naive girl who really wants to be loved and protected. Your bf sounds like a loser and a bad liar. Actually, he's a good liar considering he has swoon you. OP you sound really sweet. But I'm not white knighting you. Make no mistake, you are weak.
Separated? Psshh. When your bf left her for you I bet that gave you a lot of confidence, huh?
Third update: I asked him to message her what the dream was about then and he sent this screenshot.
However I don't know if he rang her and explained beforehand or anything. Now I do feel like I'm being a paranoid idiot :( but all of it together doesn't make sense to me. Hes making me feel bad for being suspicious and being "paranoid" but I'm sure many people would come to the same conclusion as me... I don't know. He's now telling me I'm ridiculous and clearly have no trust in him etc etc.
People have given you advice, why are you ignoring it. He wouldn't have deleted the messages if he wasn't cheating. It's time to leave him. Either take the advice or quit wasting people's time.
This is textbook gaslighting. He's guilty so he's making it seem like you're overreacting.
Look, OP, even if he's not cheating on you, he's clearly extremely secretive, dishonest, and not a fan of open communication. That isn't a good foundation for a relationship.
That's what I argued - That if a guy had messaged me the same thing I would have told him. Or even mentioned who I was planning to meet in passing. He's not accepting any of my points at all and I guess I'm being labelled as a paranoid stupid girl who should feel bad for doubting her boyfriend...
I did the exact same thing with my girlfriend. We were dating for years and I used to text other girls (never got physical-- not that it takes any of the bad out of it).
Last night she asked me to use my phone and she went through my texts and found out about it and now we're not together anymore,
Unless you're in an open relationship (and it doesn't seem to be the case), he's cheating on you. I'm sorry. Some guys are weak when it comes to attention.
He may or may not be cheating on you. If you ask me, he probably is, but that doesn't even really matter.
What matters is that you lost trust in him, and he apparently doesn't feel like he can be honest with you. The relationship is likely doomed no matter whether he actually did something wrong or not.
I know a thing or two about secretive people and pathological liars. I've been like that my whole life and I was exactly like that with my gf. You don't want to be in a relationship with him.
You're probably trying to work things out because you love him and you'll miss him (and he probably feels the same way torwards you), but this kind of arguments is just going to be more and more frequent between you two.
Trust old fucked up anon here on this one: you can do better. Break up while you can still have some respect towards him (he's probably insecure as fuck, like me) and could use what's left of his self-respect to move on.
But yeah, break up and move on.
Exactly. And I don't know why he feels he can't be honest with me - I've never reacted badly to him spending time with other women, even his ex wife (they're going through mediation to finalise their divorce.) Even when he was trying to get it out of me why I was upset - He couldn't even bring up the text and I'm sure he figured it out. It's so weird.
I've always felt I was accepting and understanding but maybe not.
Why are you being such a fucking dick to her? Divorces are an expensive, lengthy process and can quickly turn into fucking nightmares. My mom started dating her boyfriend when my parents were still seperated. They both officially needed their relationship, legal documents didn't change the fact that they weren't in love and ended their relationship. You're so obnoxious.
The two most common reasons for this are either that he is indeed cheating or that he thinks you're just a woman who wouldn't understand anyway and he's the big man who can handle everything.
If he wasn't cheating he wouldn't have deleted the posts. He wouldn't have gotten scared when you acted funny after seeing you act differently after looking through his phone he wouldn't have changed his lock and he wouldn't be so aggressive about this. He's trying to make you feel bad for his own behavior regardless if it's cheating or not and that's something guilty people do. You need to wake up and leave him. It's over. I got cheated on by my guy too but at least he wasn't a dick about it. This guy is not worth staying with because he can't even be a man and respect you enough to even lie nicely about it. Instead he's being an abusive assholes. Leave him. Stop being dumb about this. You are ignoring so many slaps to the face. This is hard. Trust me I know. I got engaged two months after he stopped cheating on me and I didn't find out until later. It fucking sucks. I'm still traumatized over it. Leave it and stop hoping someone is going to come in here and magically say something that makes all this no true.
Having someone behave like this to me in a relationship is one of my worst fears. Some people are just oblivious to their own behaviours and think everything is justified, when the ''they're just an old friend'' card is played you're know you're in for a bumpy ride. I think you are being cheated on OP. All the best
I've already expressed my resentment for my actions and I didn't further investigate (by going through order messages or any other messages) In fact I tried to ignore it all until I realised he deleted the messages...
He feels he can't be honest with you because ... HE CAN'T BE HONEST WITH YOU. Because HE IS CHEATING. Dude, it's so painfully obvious.
I've read the whole thread and based on the story you've posted it couldn't be more clear to me.
Fuck all the alternate explanations. I'm sorry but that's just him trying to do damage control and you grasping at straws. Yes, it's technically possible that there's some innocent explanation for this level of shady behavior, but ... it's not true.
I'm so sorry. You deserve better.
My heart aches for you. There is honestly no worse feeling in the world than catching the man you love and trust betraying you. I had a similar situation happen with my bf. Honestly I think he is lying to you and honestly you know he is lying to you. You have to admit it to yourself which is the hardest thing to do. If he can't be honest and up front about what he has been doing, he is not worth it. I gave my bf another chance because he was honest when I confronted him. But even so my trust for him is shaky at best. Press him about it, tell him it doesn't make sense. He is back peddling so hard, it's only a matter of time before he realizes how ridiculous his lies are.
No she doesn't give him another chance. He had his chance when confronted and he didn't go about it correctly. You are telling her to give him another chance when he shows clear signs of being untrustworthy for the next time this happens. And there will be a next time. He's made that clear enough. If he had been upfront and polite about it then she could consider it but he hasn't been. He already missed his chance.
Firstly I am not cheating. Charlie is a woman who I've not seen for a couple of years. Partly because she's a mate of my ex-wife. We used to hook up for a drink at times in the past. We got in contact, she asked about my divorce and we were going to arrange to meet for a catch up. She sent me the 'dream' message to which I didn't reply as it was a tad strange - bit of a red flag so I decided not to meet up with her. I would have happily told my gf if I was intending meeting with her.
I deleted the messages (which I am now attempting to recover) as I wanted to avoid a shit storm like this. It was clearly a massive mistake. Anyone reading 'I had a dream about you' would be upset and question the relationship. I would have done (and have done) the same. It was a shame my gf didn't just call me out at the time.
Just to say my gf has been using my phone long before just last night. If I was 'cheating' I would have deleted the message long ago. I have no reason to cheat on her, we have a great life, great house, lots of up coming plans and I'm completely in love.
I fail to see how i am being an aggressive asshole about this when no one on her knows anything about our relationship?
Please don't join this thread, you're just going to derail it - you were intending to meet her, you were talking about dates you were both free. How is that not intending to meet her?
What's wrong with a side gay-lover? You're the one he is with, and intends to stay with. In ancient Greece and Rome it was a very common practice to have a wife you love, and some intimate male lover as well. It's not cheating, he's fucking a guy. You're a girl.
Your strictly monogamous Judeo-Christian heritage is shining through very strongly.
Even if not cheating, you were being sketchy at the very least. And then trying to turn it around of your girlfriend is a dick move.
I have been in your gf's shoes and let me tell you, this sort of shit doesn't end a relationship, it rots it from the inside out. She will start to hate and resent you to the point where she can't even look at you anymore. She will always be suspicious and feel like she's getting fucked over by the man she once cared about. She's going to feel like she's an idiot for still being with you which will make her hate you more.
Have fun with that.
I'm not telling her to give him another chance. Not once did I even tell her to do that. I simply told her what I did in my situation for a totally different person who handled it differently. She can handle this however she sees fit. She asked if she could trust him, thats a no because he didnt tell her the truth. I was just saying this dude is back peddling hard and even he will realize how ridiculous he sounds in time which might prompt him to just be honest. I was also saying that she should try to see if he is even capable of being honest about something he did which is why I said she should press him. Sometimes it's also nice just to know the truth about something especially when you know the person is lying to your face.
The dudes a liar, of course he has a lie ready for this. Come on lady, this is elementary stuff. If you hear hoofbeats, think horse not zebra. Sure it could be a zebra, but how likely is that? The zebra is his story, the horse is the obvious truth that he cheated/planned to.
>I would have happily told my gf if I was intending meeting with her.
And why change the lock on your phone?
It's over. You messed up a good thing, first by starting to reach out to someone else, then by lying about it, over and over.
I don't even know why she let you into this thread.
A wise man once said: "Trust. But confirm."
The changed phone code and deleting of messages is proof that he's trying to hide something from you. It could be cheating. Or he could be buying drugs. Who knows? At any rate, you should expect him to be honest with you. I'm not sure how to approach this, since he doesn't sound like the kind of fellow who will admit to being cheated on.
You could stay, while keeping an eye on opportunities to secure evidence.
Or you could confront him with what you presented to us. It's not evidence that he's cheating, but it's certainly evidence that he's hiding something from you, and you ain't taking any of that bullshit. If he denies it, play cold turkey for the next week and resort to the above plan.
Or you could flat out dump him. Risk and reward.
Thanks for all the support guys. I'll take it all on board. I've said to him
"Even if I believe that you haven't or had any intention to the way you've handled it is completely wrong. This is what people are calling out on you. You were secretive straight away - Why you wouldn't tell me shows you're not open with me and then you turned it all on me. That's why people are calling you aggressive - instead of simply being reassuring you made me or to be paranoid. When clearly I'm not as like I said everyone else would come to the same conclusion. I wasn't being paranoid - your actions led me to that point."
I feel much better knowing now that I wasn't just being "paranoid". I don't know where I'm going to go with this - i believe he's been secretive and agree it's not a good foundation for a relationship.
Whatever the outcome I have you guys to thank for assuring me I'm not so crazy. 4chan isn't so bad all the time.
> I've never reacted badly to him spending time with other women, even his ex wife (they're going through mediation to finalise their divorce.)
So OP's boyfriend is legally still married to his wife
She's the other woman as well
I wouldn't jump to conclusions. He might not be cheating, he may just be a soft touch and want to genuinely stay on good terms with Charlie. That said, it sounds like she may have bad intentions with your BF.
If you can trust him, let it be and see what happens. If you can't, you should probably end it.
>If you had already read my messages (which you had) it made no difference
>Why did you delete all the messages between you and her? Because of reactions like this
Those two approaches to this simply don't fit. Either he was trying to hide it to avoid causing unnecessary drama, or he didn't care that you'd already seen it, not both. He's talking out his ass for some reason, I'm thinking he's cheating, at least emotionally. Even if he isn't, the damage here may have been done already, trust is an easy thing to lose in a relationship, but pretty crucial if you want it to last.
>I simply wanted to see if it was possible
Hahaha, he's barely even trying with this one.
He's trying to make this your fault, OP. Even if we pretend he's innocent (he's not), he's being a massive asshole.
If he had done nothing wrong, all he'd be doing is trying to make you feel safe. Instead he's trying to make you feel guilty.
>I deleted the messages (which I am now attempting to recover) as I wanted to avoid a shit storm like this.
So you didn't trust your girlfriend to handle it, and then fuelled the very shitstorm you were trying to avoid by picking at HER for not trusting YOU.
>It was a shame my gf didn't just call me out at the time.
It's a shame you weren't just honest with her in the first place. This is not her fault.
This is why people think you're an asshole. You're putting your mistake on her shoulders and making her feel crazy because you're too busy feeling sorry for yourself.
That's exactly how I feet - Why even would there be any need for me to "call him out" if he was honest in the first place? Again, it feels like he's placing the blame on me.
He's apologising profusely but I also wonder if this is just because I ended up posting on here - If I hadn't have gotten the advice from you guys that I wasn't actually "paranoid" would he still be playing that card? Looking at what he said initially I believe so.
DO NOT OVER REACT
I HAD A COKE HABBIT TOO, YOUR BOYFRIEND NOT MIGHT BE CHEATING BUT SIMPLY BUYING COKE
COKE/COCAINE IS KNOWN AS CHARLIE, I WAS ALSO NEWBIE ONCE, SOME NIGGERS IN AMSTERDAM WERE SELLING ME COKE AND THEY CALL IT CHARLIE
I ASKED WHO IS CHARLIE AND IT IS COKE
CHARLIE IN HIS PHONE MIGHT BE HIS DEALER, MY DEALERS ALSO SAID THEY HAVE DREAMS OF ME, IT MAY ALSO BE UNDER DISGUISE OF BUYING MORE HEROIN LIKE
ALL I AM SAYING: THIS WHOLE CHARLIE THING MIGHT BE A UNDERLYING COKE HABIT
>assuming charlie is a girl
in my experience guys are more likely to cheat on you with a guy. you got a vag and hes already got that. so he gets dudes on the side.
i did not know how crazy common it was for guys with gfs to also fuck dudes until i started online cruising
He does have a point.
My sister was obviously done with her ex husband and left back in April. They were living in Atlanta and she moved to fucking LA.
He came back to indiana and in like a month got a new girlfriend lol. But I think they finalized their divorce last month when she was back here for Christmas. It was a pretty civil divorce though. My sister just put whatever she could fit in her car that she wanted and left, and didn't want anything else, so it wasn't much.
>If I was 'cheating' I would have deleted the message long ago. I have no reason to cheat on her
1) >If I was 'cheating' I would have deleted the message long ago.
Why? You like to read it over and over and congratulate yourself (fap) over how you've got two bitches wanting your ugly arse.
2) >I have no reason to cheat on her.
Ummm... Strange poon.
op, you boyfriend is using a simple manipulation tactic on you. When caught in the wrong, you can avoid blame by causing the person who caught you to feel like the situation is their fault.
Don't allow him to manipulate you. There is clearly something fishy going on and his excuses feel very improvised.
I'd encourage you to just end things. It doesn't look like he has any intent of owning up to his mistakes.
You are not in the wrong for doubting him, and the whole situation is too sketchy to let slide.
Just break up with him. If he tries to tell you you're overreacting, just say that due to his behavior, you can no longer trust him so the relationship will not work out.
Hold your ground. He's very obviously cheating on you
Ok forget the whole obvious cheating thing.
He fucking lied to you. To your face. Bald faced unapologetic and cowardly.
How can you trust a person that lies to you?
You want it to not be true so badly but you know already. Its over.
Ok... let me put it to you this way as a relationship counsellor.
When an innocent person is being accused of cheating they act shocked. They are stricken with disbelief. They personally feel the ownership and burden of proving their innocence and trustworthiness. They are generally concerned about putting everything out on the table and alleviating their spouses concerns.
When a guilty person is accused of cheating they misdirect, pretend like it is not real, evade the discussion, manipulate and redirect. They try to make you feel paranoid and crazy.
Like girl... I have been doing this professionally for 20 years. Like 99% of the time it plays out like this.
I would wager my life that he is cheating.
out of curiosity, have you ever talked to your bfs soon to be ex wife? Why did they end up splitting? If its infidelity than theres your sign OP. I'd ask her. Even if she may dislike you she hates her ex even more and would most likely be compliant.
If you were in fact the other woman that split up your bf's marriage than this could be considered karma. Cheaters rarely ever change
He's cheating, emotionally at the very, very least, but it's still cheating.
It's weird to read all the shit your bf pulled out of his ass, and remember that my bf basically said the same shit when we were in a similar situation after I called him out.
If you don't want to break up with him then you need to sit him the fuck down and tell him that the lying stops or you're done. Have a 100% honesty rule 24/7, tell him he needs to say and do honest things from his heart if he ever expects you to trust him the same again.
You need to be honest with yourself too. Even if you don't leave him, the fact that he not only broke your trust by probably cheating, he then lied to you multiple times, manipulated you into thinking you were overreacting and being crazy (gaslighting - my bf is a pro at this) - all this shit will eat you alive and you might just end up hating yourself, and resenting him.
But it is possible that he can rebuild the trust, maybe not to the level that it was before he majorly fucked up, but it's still possible.
How long have you been together?
OP, you're overreacting and being paranoid, but it's okay most people would. he's telling the truth, obviously. don't let these jealous douche bags put thoughts in you're head.
and to all you white knights, she's not going to fuck you even if you did trick her into leaving her bf. get a life guys.
what? she's overreacting because she snooped and saw information out of context. that's the keyword here, context. without it, you look like a paranoid fool. who knows, maybe she just craves drama and is trying to rock the boat a little.