>>16667605 I don't really even know. I just haven't had any other kind of experiences with them. Men don't talk to people unless they want something out of them, and since I don't hand out money at random and I'm usually not carrying food, it's almost always sex.
>>16667609 If you were a man, you could say this almost word by word about women, but instead of sex they want an emotional sponge and punchbag, and services: do this do that, buy this buy that, and if there is the least bit of hardship and they got what they want, they yell at you that you are not a man and leave you. tl dr: This is not exclusive to men, most people are shitty and selfish. Look for the few who aren't and befriend them. The only difference is that men are more direct about it.
>>16667618 The problem is I want a boyfriend, and having to keep my guard up and worry that any date I'm on is only after one-time sex is exhausting.
>>16667625 I'm not saying they're only after sex. I've met many men who want other things, usually money, other goods/services or attention. I'm pretty sure my dad continued to be married to mom purely for housekeeping.
>>16667637 >I've met many men who want other things, usually money, other goods/services or attention Just like women. This is not exclusive to men. A lot of women marry for money/services/validation, and lead on guys to enjoy their attention. Look for people who has their life together, who has values, goals, ambitions, and has a similar worldview to you. If you can engage in meaningful conversation with them and can solve problems together well, a mutual respect will develop, and you will see more in each other than just services and start seeing and valuing the person behind it. Think of a relationship as something that you have to build up together. If you are good at solving problems and working together, you will be able to respect the other for the work they put into the relationship, and you will get over hardships better.
>How do I stop needing an emotional sponge? Build up self respect and self esteem. If you respect yourelf, you will believe more and more that you are capable and can solve your problem independently and cope alone well instead of being a burden to others. Once you calm yourself down and can think clearly, you will be able to learn a heck a lot more from any of your experiences and if you build up this kind of experience, you will be much more capable and confident.
Men are women with testicles. The extra testosterone makes em different, but otherwise anything a man is capable off so is a woman. Cept maybe for impregnating ya I guess. Focus on logic and cut out any sources of fear mongering from your life including people who spout nonsense.
>>16667715 But if you want a boyfriend then the dick is the long term goal. You need to find people who will take it slow - not people who aren't interested. Otherwise you'll end up with a friend, and try to move things forward when that's not what he's after, and that will end badly. Tough spot to be in.
>>16667715 >resort to violence if I don't put out. Most men are simply not like that. If they are around you, move. Don't date shitty people. The reason I wrote what individual features you could value about men is because those men who have those values won't resort to violence if you don't put out.
>The problem is, no matter what I do, I still want love Love is different that an emotional sponge. An emotional sponge is someone who listens to bitching and is an emotional outlet. Love is something that everyone needs, that's normal.
>how-do-I-get-out-of-this-without-getting-his-dick-in-me Sex is part of a relationship. You can't get around that. If you are afraid of sex this much, you should see a therapist. Most men will want to have sex with their girlfriend, there is no way around that, but the decent ones won't resort to violence and will respect and love you. If you want to wait till marriage, date religious people.
Why don't you become friends with gay men first? You will become acclimated to the idea of a penis bearing person being near you better that way. Kind of like training to ride a bull by using a mechanical bull. No real danger and you can take it at your own pace. At the end you can ask them to let you see em naked or even touch as proof that you've conquered your fear of dicks! Or you know you could just see a therapist.
>>16667743 Friends' male friends, online dating sites. I don't know other ways to meet men, my workplace and hobbies are exclusively female.
And it's not that I'm scared of getting raped or anything.
It's a lot more like having to pay someone money to be your friend. Like you're hanging out with someone and having a good time and halfway through he interrupts you with a "I'm still getting paid, right?" and suddenly all the fun is gone and you remember you are not actually friends.
>>16667773 Have you considered that they're just flirting with you? One of the most common issues the people who fail at dating here has is not being direct enough. Typically to get into a relationship with someone you need to make sure they know where you want it to go. That includes sex. Sexual remarks will typically be made. An important part of relationships is sex. I'm not sure why you feel this is weird. Are you expecting men to hide their intentions of having sex in a relationship?
>>16667773 Well you are asking him for something no? You want his love and attention right? Relationships are built on filling the wants of the other. Be it trust, romance, resources or sex. It isn't wrong of him to want something of you unless you make it clear you aren't offering what he wants, and the same goes for you. So don't be so suspicious of normal human behavior.
>>16667780 "exclusively" might be the wrong word here.
I know and understand men have thoughts and feelings and emotions, too. They create art and science and many of them are absolutely brilliant and wonderful.
The thing is, I love my dog. She's sweet and fluffy and very loving and quite intelligent, and I like her very much. She also likes meat and will absolutely shred a dropped hot dog before it has the time to hit the floor.
I would probably not like her as much if I was meat.
>>16667790 But men don't want to eat you. They want to have sex with you that is enjoyable for you as well, as it is normal in a relationship. Have you been sexually abused? Why are you so afraid of it?
>>16667817 I don't know. The thought of enjoying sex just feels just as foreign to me as enjoying getting eaten, or having to pay money for someone's company. I'm just giving something away for nothing in return.
>>16667790 You're not meat though. Just because a person may want something you've got doesn't mean they will resort to violence. Has a hobo ever tried to take your cash by force? They are desperate and have pretty much nothing to lose, but even they have enough sense to think "Using me fists wa be wrong." and to an extent respect your wishes when you say no. Granted they may be a jerk and spit, but that's it.
>>16667831 I've never seen homeless people around here. The only beggars around here are little veil-headed romanian ladies set up here by the russian mafia because begging is not illegal yet and it does not count as organised crime. They're never threatening, just guilt-tripping you by being sad and either very young and pretty or very very old.
>>16667827 >The thought of enjoying sex just feels just as foreign to me as enjoying getting eaten Well, there is your problem. Now seek help for it or hunt for someone who isn't interested in sex, which is a small pool of men.
>>16667850 No idea, you'll likely have to keep playing the same numbers game you've been doing up until now. You're trying to find a unicorn and I can't tell you where those are either, if they're out there only searching extensively is an option if you want to find them.
>>16667850 Go to your general doctor's office and ask if they have a material relating to seeking therapy. If pills can be prescribed for it then they will have pamphlets. After you have some numbers for therapists call their office and ask if they have experience with people with phobias or sexual issues. If they don't then move on.
>>16667866 It doesn't hurt. The only partner it's hurt with was my second sexual partner ever, and he was unusually big and I only learnt afterwards you're not supposed to try to get it in dry. But even then, I was usually too drunk to feel a thing anyway.
>>16667867 I't kind of more complicated than that.
the way I've understood it, sex is a boring chore for women and they do it to get to spend time with men, and to men, spending time with women is a boring chore and they do it to get sex. I'm not seeing how it doesn't make sense to you.
>>16667871 You are the exact women, any man should run away from. I dated women with chips on their shoulder, and it is the worst. Trust issues, they fuck with you emotionally, nothing is ever good enough, they always need to be validated.
Look in the mirror, who are the people you hang around? are they just comfy or do they have things going for them?
Anyway, here is my advice
-meet people through common interest. You like board games, then go play a bunch of board games with people. -Some men are shitty, or I shall rephrase, people are shitty. You have to weed them out. Look at their actions and how they behave. Some things to look for how does he treat waiters, bartenders, people who have to serve him? that says a lot about a person. How do they treat their parents? Do they ask questions about you, like real get to know you questions, and are they interested in what you say?
Lastly, you need to evaluate yourself. Are you choosing the wrong people to be around? Are you apart of the problem you are having? After all, the common denominator in all relationships is you.
Finally, a side note. Sex is something to share together. It is not a chore. Don't have sex out of obligation, have sex when you want to. You think men want you for sex, but any real man, whats you for your personality, and what you offer(other then sex), be a person that has a lot to offer.
>>16667884 >Where have you been taught that this isn't the case? from the guys I've dated.
my parents never discussed sex at home. It wasn't a taboo, but there was just nothing to say about it. They made sure me and my sister know what condoms are and how and why they're used, and mom made sure to mention it's 100% ok to bring boyfriends (OR girlfriends) home to be seen.
My parents' marriage was mostly a legal contract, and they didn't really have anything in common save for a home address and mutual children. they didn't love each other, they didn't touch each other, and I can't remember either of them ever saying a positive word of each other.
I've asked mom why she married him a few times, usually about his temper. She just shrugs, and says she was used to tantrums since my aunt was the same way, growing up. The closest thing to a positive trait she could think of about him was the fact tha she was used to moody personalities. They were married for 20 years.
I sort of had that mindset for awhile. But it's really just genderflipped /r9k/. Women only want money/status. Men only want sex. Either will cheat or trade up to get a better version of the thing they want. All that stuff. And that's true for some people. But that's not everyone. There are people who are looking for love, and have plenty of love themselves to give. It's just sometimes hard to find those people, and sometimes they're a bit closed off too after being hurt.
>>16667609 I don't really even know. I just haven't had any other kind of experiences with them. Men don't talk to people unless they want something out of them, and since I don't hand out money at random and I'm usually not carrying food, it's almost always sex. Except men are human beings with feelings. They're just like you and me. They like to have fun. If you are a fun person then they'll want to spend time near you. If you make them laugh and smile and entertained then why wouldn't they want to spend time with you? Of course they'll spent time with you. They just need to be interested in you for non-sexual reasons. If you can only interest a man for sexual reasons then it's because you don't offer anything else. Offer something else. Don't pretend to be a victim of predatory behavior because you have random sex and feel hurt that it doesn't magically make you interesting. Learn to be interesting. It's not something you are born with. It's something you develop. It's hard. It takes time. You meet failures. It hurts and you need to keep going. It looks like what happened here is that you failed to interact socially with men and you grew bitter and sexist instead of improving your social skills. That's alright. We all make mistakes. Just go back to the basics. Learn how to be friend with a guy. Don't start with a boyfriend. Start with a friend. If you don't know how to create friendship with a man then you're not ready to have a relationship.
>>16667902 >Trust issues, they fuck with you emotionally, nothing is ever good enough, they always need to be validated. I don't have trust issues. I don't live in constant fear of being cheated on. Infidelity has just always felt like a completely foreing idea ot me, it's too far away to be conceivable, like murder.
A guy who could get someone else than me wouldn't be with me, anyway, and I can barely handle the strain of dealing with one man at a time if I ever find one.
>Look in the mirror, who are the people you hang around? are they just comfy or do they have things going for them? I don't spend a lot of time with my friends, I see them maybe two or three times a month. I don't build my identity on their success or lack of it.
>meet people through common interest. You like board games, then go play a bunch of board games with people. How do you get interests that involve other people? I like reading and drawing and going on walks while listening to music. You can't share that with someone.
>Look at their actions and how they behave How do I get to know them BEFORE we're on a date and I have to focus on avoiding dick?
>Are you choosing the wrong people to be around? Are you apart of the problem you are having? After all, the common denominator in all relationships is you. Finding a man who doesn't primarily want sex seems just as odd as finding a dog that doesn't primarily want meat. Where am I supposed to find one?
>Sex is something to share together. It is not a chore. Don't have sex out of obligation, have sex when you want to. You think men want you for sex, but any real man, whats you for your personality, and what you offer (other then sex), be a person that has a lot to offer. Men don't stick around if you don't offer sex. You wouldn't go to a restaurant for the nice atmosphere if they don't serve food in return for your money.
Avoid places that give easy access to a lot of people; like bars, meetings, or as others have mentioned, "look at/listen to me"-sites. That of course include dating sites.
Do some volunteer work, or take interest in something and find places where people meet up for that. Could be some sport, some skill,... Whatever you might have/find interest in; as long as it is something that requires some effort (but maybe not patchworking, if you seek men). But avoid fan-clubs of any sort, which of course includes religious groups. Doesn't matter if they are a fan/religious, it is just not something that filters out shitty people.
>I don't spend time with friends >spend all day on the internet >socialize with real people >welp everyman is a predator because internet changed how i view everything >get negative interactions irl >they were right! they are assholes
>>16667952 >I see them maybe two or three times a month if you talk with a friendly human being on average once every ten days then what makes you think you're emotionally ready to hold a relationship?
>>16667919 I don't know. It just feels bad to know I have to buy their time like that. I'd feel just as bad if they were only coming over to empty out my fridge or to steal the toilet paper. It just hurts to know they don't like me, just what they can get out of me.
It's stupid moody women's logic, I know, and loving someone out of genuine pure heart isn't something that actually happens and I'm an idiot for wanting it (and I should read Madame Bovary again) but it still upsets me.
>>16667945 I'm not saying I'm a victim. I know I let them do it to me and they have all the right to do it. If I leave food out and seagulls eat it, it's my fault for leaving it out.
How do I develop a personality?
Where do I find a man who doesn't want sex in return for his time?
>>16667967 The internet is just how people behave when people don´t have to worry about their reputations. That's why I go to 4chan for advice, you get to interact with actual people instead of some nice pleasant facade people have put up.
>>16667973 >I don't know. It just feels bad to know I have to buy their time like that What does a relationship mean to you? What activities do you want to do with a guy?
>It's stupid moody women's logic No, it's not. Guys justify wanting to have sex with the same logic if they have to listen to their gf's bullshit. If you think about a guy like this, that's a sign of a lack of respect. because you only think about him as a tool. He should do whatever you want, and if he wants to do something that he genuinely likes, you're just selling your time. No, you're not. That's what love is about. You only want to get love but not return it.
"The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory (GIFT) is a postulate which asserts that normal, well-adjusted people may display psychopathic or antisocial behaviors when given both anonymity and a captive audience on the Internet."
>>16667984 I'm not an american. Chastity/sexual purity is really not a thing here, unless you go for the religious sects, in which case I should expect to be married to him wihin a year and on my way to have 15 children and never taste alcohol again.
>>16667973 >I know I let them do it to me They are not doing anything to you. You are doing to yourself. If you know that it hurts you to have sex with a man that you don't know how to interest non-sexually then don't do it, because if you do it then it will hurt. It's that simple. You don't have room to say that you are letting people hurt you. They are literally doing nothing wrong, you just don't know what you want. You are hurting yourself as surely as if you were grabbing a fork and stabbing your hand. >How do I develop a personality? Learn how to friendship. Forget about relationships until you mastered the art of friendship. Yes, with a guy. >Where do I find a man who doesn't want sex in return for his time? Anywhere. Look outside the window. Every man you see is a person with feelings. Go talk to one. Make a joke. Watch them smile.
>>16667994 Then move to America? Honestly what more advice can we give? You clearly are convinced (at least now) of your beliefs that men are arms and legs attached to dicks. Not much of any more progress can be made today so best you go about getting a therapist (google is your friend) and coming back later.
>>16667976 This is kind of relevant to my current relationship. Can you not be interested in someone but still in love with them? So you tell them 20x a day "I love you" and have since you first got together, but you don't ask them questions about themselves and aren't interested in where they came from and who they are.
>>16667991 >what does a relationship mean to you? Sorry to keep repeating the animal analogies, I don't intend them to dehumanise anyone, but animal behaviour happens to be the one thing I know and undestand the best. If I knew as much about cars, I'd probably use cars as an example.
That, and likening sex to food. It just makes the most sense to me and I don't know to explain things otherwise.
As I've pictured it, having a girlfriend/boyfriend is supposed to be a lot like having a dog. You love it and take care of it and feed it, and in return they love you and provide company and affection.
But from my personal experience, men are like seagulls. You can feed them all you want, they'll show up for food, but they like food more than they like food, and if receiving food without your presence was an option, they would prefer it. They don't care if they eat your fingers while grabbing what you're holding out (your blood is delicious) and they'll be gone as soon as they're full or you run out of food to offer.
>>16668021 A good example that fits what you're saying is that guys are obsessed with youth in women. If you look at public figures, they usually only date much younger women and trade them in every few years. Women are pieces of meat with an expiration date to men. Older women are a joke to men. Women become invisible when they aren't pleasing men's dicks anymore. Leonardo Dicaprio is approaching 50 and all his girlfriends have been under 25. Also look at movies, it's all middle aged, 50 year old guys dating 25 year olds. Not because it's natural but because men control our society, they're trying to sell us this image. It's better for a woman to be single and self-sufficient imo, but then I am in a relationship so take this with a grain of salt as I'm a hypocrite at the moment. But I get where you're coming from.
>>16668008 >They are literally doing nothing wrong I'm not saying they are. If I step into a puddle it's not the puddle's fault that my sock is wet. I'm not trying to demonise men for doing what they do.
>>16668021 Your example is good, but in most relationships it's more like that they love you and take care of you and feed you, and in return they get nothing but an obnoxious and needy person for company and affection as long as they satisfy your needs. Of course they look for blood if that's the only thing you can offer. Also, unlike having a dog, a relationship has a sexual component that women can enjoy as well. Most of the time women enjoy it more than men. Lying down and having the orgasm of your lifetime so your legs don't work for twenty minutes is what sex should be for women.
>>16667952 I don't know who you are. So, I can't tell you what issues you have, but I can tell by what you are saying. You would be a hassle to go out with you. It isn't a infidelity thing. It is a deeper relationship thing. You want deep relationship, you want to connect with others, but you are unwilling to do the leg work to do so.
The fact of life is you are who you hang around. You hang around shitty people, you'll be shitty. You hang around go getters. You'll be a go getters. I already mentioned your family. They have a shitty relationship, and that is your example of relationship. This is a fact. You need to surround yourself with good people, better people if you can.
Literally, there are whole clubs dedicated to those three things. I have gathered friends, and we collaborated and wrote a story. Despite what you think, any reading, or writing effort is strengthened by a group of people. A TV show always hires groups of writers. There is strength in numbers. There is a website called meetup.com. You can join groups that share common interest.
The point of a date is to get to know someone, or you meet people through a network of friends. You obviously are young, because any adult can go on a date with someone to get to know them. In fact, I just did that 2 days ago.
You are completely wrong about men only wanting sex. Men don't want sex from you only. They want companionship just like you do. You just have a warped view of what men want, and a warped view of what sex is. This is what happens when you spend all your time on the internet and not in the real world. Maybe you have nothing to offer, but sex. Maybe you are sorta a piece of shit. I have been around women, where I thought well, This will just be sexual. A women of value isn't treated that way. What I mean by offer is can you bond with someone? can you understand someone and how they feel? Do you have hobbies or things that make you interesting?
>>16668021 Seagull are highly social animals. They fly in groups, they create colonies, they fight intruders together, they poop on each others and make small happy trumpet noises. If you want to socialize with seagulls then you need to understand them. You need to learn how to make small happy trumpet noises too. If you offer them food while blasting heavy metal music then they'll come, they'll take the food and they'll eat it elsewhere. The problem isn't that they care only about food. The problem is that you never learned how to stop blasting heavy metal music.
>>16668019 Personally I think that's fake love, a weird mix of obsession and a desperate need for validation. Like being in love with the idea of a person or being addicted to the comfort of a relationship. At the very least I think you should treat someone you love with the same interest as you treat a best friend. Otherwise that person is just a pretty thing you like to hang up on your wall.
>>16668085 >I speak three languages, I read books, I'm writing one, I'm quick to pick up a group's sense of humour and I can be funny. I don't know what you want out of me. That's more than enough, we didn't know this about you till now. You have to understand however that sex is a primal need for the majority of population, men and women. If your preference is no sex, and it's such an emotional burden for you to put your legs apart and let someone fuck you who holds you dear loves you and cares for you, look for asexual people to date.
>>16668085 well, It's your problem. You can get temporary validation from us, but at the end of the day. You have to live in your own skin, and handle your own problems. You can blame everyone else, like you are doing, or you can ask some honest questions about yourself, and find the real problem. Either way, good luck.
>>16668108 >How do I learn to like sex? What do you hate about it? Do you stress? Can't you orgasm? I think you just built a huge wall around you that prevents you to see sex in any positive light. You need to relax and let yourself feel. Feel the pleasure, the care. That they worship your body, that you can make them happy just by playing with their dick etc...
>>16668085 >I am not a seagull. Seagulls don't like people the same way seagulls like seagulls. And yet a seagull will eat in your hand if you hold food and don't blast heavy metal music. They will eat with you as if they were eating next to another bird, they won't feel threatened. If you feed them often they'll eventually see you like a member of their colony, and they'll let you pet them, and they'll sleep next to you when it is cold. All it takes is to create a mutually pleasant experience. If you don't need to turn yourself into a seagull to bridge the gap between species then you don't need to turn into a man to bridge the gap between genders.
>>16668085 >I don't know what you want out of me. We told you. Learn how to socialize with men. Interest them sexually and non-sexually. Do both and you have a relationship. >b-b-but I am already doing hard stuff! I speak stuff and I write stuff and it's really hard!! I shouldn't have to do more efforts!!! basically you're an entitled lazy fuck
>>16668131 >stranger Don't fuck strangers. >I just don't understand why sex is so important. Because the vast majority of people enjoy it immensely. It's an activity where you can relax, is mutually enjoyable, and it gives you a sense of closeness with someone you love. >I can't even make myself orgasm while masturbating. Men can. Most women can as well. Have you ever orgasmed? >I don't know if having my asshole wiped Asshole wiping doesn't feel like orgasm, and as I said, don't sex strangers.
I think you just met crappy selfish men who's only concern was to use you as a meat condom instead of having mutually enjoyable sex.
Hi OP, I'm a man and not a sex crazed predator. I'm not perfect. Just like everyone sometimes I lie or am late to a meeting or skip a shower if I'm alone that day. But I'm not a predator. I always make sure who I'm dating feels safe and comfortable and I tell them that that is important to me.
No, we aren't all bad, just like all women are gold digging cheating brainless scumbag whores. Also read a book on basic statistics and you'll realize you can't conclude that most men (average and good like me) can't be judged by a few outliers (men who are evil predators)
>>16668205 Love, companionship and affection. I would suppose men like being kissed and touched just the same.
Okay, sure, being kissed on the forehead and having your neck and back stroked might just feel like boring nonsense you have to put up with in order to keep arpund an accessible wet hole for your dick, but I keep getting mixed messages about what men want and don't want.
>>16668200 not being edgy, but any criticism we gave you. You did mental gymnastics to justify. Any correction given, You made up some excuse to make it not a good one. You seek validation, yet lack the will power to act. You are waste.
I idealize the person that tries and fails. They are a good person. You are the type of person I despise. Doesn't even try, just complains, and doesn't make an honest effort.
>>16668230 Okay. I'm sorry about being scared of men. I'm sorry about trying to dodge a mental block and having blind spots over bullshit I should not put any man through.
Deep down I do aknowledge that most men are perfectly sane and reasonable human beings with thoughts and feelings. But admitting that they're not ALL monsters, I'd have to admit that I keep getting fucked by the bad ones because of the content of my own character, and that fucking hurts.
>>16668238 Why are we all going around assuming that I don't have a job? Is this actually a thing somewhere?
>>16668229 You don't get it. Sex is not the primary goal of a relationship, for most people, it's a primal need. They appreciate being kissed on the forehead and having their neck and back stroked, they just feel very uncomfortable if they are together with a beautiful girl who says no to sex always, and for the most part it's the same with women. You don't have to look further, just look at this board. If bf doesn't fuck well enough I'm undesirable, ugly, he's into other women, I'm not satisfied, I'm dreaming of his friend fucking me etc... You categorized men as some beasts when your real problem is that you excluded sex from your life completely and convinced yourself that it's an unbearable burden and everyone who wants it is evil. No, they are not.
>>16668254 there we go. Short term pain, for a long term gain. Keep having self-awarness, look at your weaknesses at adjust. You'll become better for it. You'll find a guy one day, that sex will become natural. It won't be weird. You'll legitimately want to have it with him. Until that day comes stay away from it. Sex is SHARED. It isn't a one way street, thats called rape.
>>16668258 No, you're not eaten. For guys the food is pussy, for girls food is dick. That's why people do it and why it strengthens relationships, mutual joy and fun. It's kind of a meal where both parties get full and no one's get eaten.
>>16668164 I can masturbate and orgasm I do it 2-3 times a week and I'm a woman. What the fuck are you talking about when you're like "men can". It should be changed to "most people can". For the record, a good portion of women do want sex. A good portion of men don't if you have desire for platonic relationships go look for them.
>>16668296 It's the opposite where I'm from. Both partners work, only woman cleans. In gay couples, both girlfriends clean, and with gay men, nobody cleans. I've seen what gay guys' apartments look like, grown-ass men living in goddamn raccoon nests.
>>16668307 I have a cheap vibrator, and I can masturbate by pushing it against my clit, but I can't orgasm. I've been told to buy a better vibrator, but those cost like 150-200 euros and that's rent money. Men can orgasm for free.
>>16668336 You have no idea how many times I've wished I could be attracted to women. The whole thought feels like eating grass. "Man, if I ate grass, all of this would be food." I would if I could but I can't so I won't.
How do you tell if you're asexual? I do see men I'm attracted to and want to touch, the problem is that being attracted to me and attractive to me are mutually exclusive traits.
>>16668344 Well, I've been trying since before I knew what sex or masturbation was, and I still can't.
>>16668345 If you're one of those "flick the clit super fast until you cum buckets" -people, good for you. I can go on until my fingers get tired and still nothing.
I was similar to you when I was younger, but I looked back on my life. Realized all the times women have tried to manipulate me and abuse me or those that I cared for and I thought, "wow, no one has it easy" I'm female, btw. Do you have any experiences where a woman has treated you (or someone you know) badly? If so realize that there are men out there who think about you the same way you think about them. I've changed my paradigm and met some nice people through it. I know that most of them aren't physically attracted to me, but they're actually less demanding than women in my life, at times and I love their positivity.
>>16668372 Yeah, that's your problem (about the clit thing) not a problem exclusive to women. My issue with your statements wasn't that you said that you couldn't get off for free, but that you were implying that men are the only ones that can, that's erroneous, clit flickers, such as myself, exist and we are a proud part of the female populace.
>>16668383 I live in a virtually exclusively female environment, socially speaking. The closest male contact I have is the neighbour's husband and we don't talk, just pretend to not notice each other when we both happen to be outside at the same time and awkwardly wave or nod a greeting if that's impossible or we accidentally make eye contact.
The neighbour is super sweet and I don't think he's avoiding me because he's scared she'll bite his head off or some shit, he's just not super into normie shit like talking to his neighbours.
>>16668427 So far it's been 95% getting drunk enough to fuck guys that I don't like, and 5% of having "Hi, I'm-" interrupted with "I have a girlfriend".
It's a 20-80 thing. the best 80% of people are always taken. The reason why perpetually single people are so bitter about the opposite sex is that the only samples they get are from the wost 20% of society. And I know I'm there beause I'm fucking crazy.
>>16668432 Women who are shitty towards women or women who are shitty towards men?
The last woman-shitty-at-women I met were my classmates when I was 11 and got bullied by the catty cool girls for being autistic. I have no recollection of ever personally witnessing female-on-male abuse.
Not saying it doesn't happen. I'm sure women can be just as monstrous as men. I'm just not understanding how aknowleging this is supposed to make me less threatened by threatening men.
>>16668443 It isn't, what it's suppose to allow you to do is to empathze with other people. By observing the shittiness of people that are of your same gender, you learn to look at shittiness as only a trait. Instead of a gender-specific one. Like, i could say that men are the abusers, but it's hard to do that if I've met women that are abusive to define that temperment in such gender specific terms.
>>16667591 Why not get a sex change to be a man, and you will grow accustomed to seeing a man in the mirror and you won't be afraid of yourself and that lack of fear will extend to other men as your fear of men dissipates and disappears.
After your fear has subsided get sexual reassignment surgery back into a woman.
>>16668538 I'm telling you, how I overcame my fear of men, XD. That's the way I did it. By realizing that women could be just as nasty I was able to realize that men could be just as sweet. I disassociated a persons gender from their traits. You feel me?
>>16668566 I identify as being asexual, so for me I had to learn how to overcome my fear of men, general. Not just when it comes to relationships. But I was hoping that providing insight into how I overcame it might help you.
>>16668579 Logically speaking, there are most likely, quite a few men out there that are just as jaded as you are and if you understand that, that may enable you to find a better partner, you feel me? That's why I said what I said. I didn't even allow myself to have male friends until I was able to understand that and really having male friends wasn't that hard for me, lol. I doubt it'd really be that hard for you if you opened your heart up to it.
>>16667591 maybe b8 but just in case someone is actually wondering this:
step 1: visit a therapist just to rule out any emotional or self-esteem issues that might cause you to repel the kind of guy who would treat you decent. if you have no such issues, congrats, skip to step 3.
step 2: either get help from said therapist, or work on your own to improve your sense of self-worth. give this at least a year or two, as self-esteem issues can take a long time to resolve. if you have any passive-aggressive tendencies or a personality disorder, this will need to be addressed as well.
step 3: keep putting yourself out there and focusing on the positive interactions you have with men. men who treat women like dirt are attracted to women who think they don't deserve better. men who treat women like princesses may just really be into the chivalry thing, or they may only love women who fit their ideal. as soon as you don't fit their ideal, they may turn on you and start treating you like dirt. so if you meet one of those, it's ok to be appreciative of his kindness but be cautious too. what you want is a man who will treat you like a human being. the flipside is to make sure you treat him like one too, not like a saviour or a dad or anything like that.
it's tough and it takes time and trial & error, but you can do it.
>>16668606 I have a time to a therapist booked next month, and it's not my first one. I've been on and off various unprofessional professionals for the past eight years and let's see if this one is NOT bullshit.
>>16668608 Because, they most likely hate women for the same reasons you hate men, femanon. What it did for me (and again I'm only basing what I say on how I specifically was able to overcome my fear) was that it allowed me to have a greater sense of empathy for other people's struggles, but it also allowed me to realize that the people that have heart me or those that I care about were only individuals. Your dad, is just one person. Those guys who've tried to pressure you into sex were only individual people. It is not something inherent to men to function in that way, it's inherent to choice individuals. Now there might be a disproportionate amount of men, that you know or in general that are like this. But knowing that these traits are not inherent to men means that you can interact with them with a more open mind, do you understand?
>>16668606 another thing I didn't have room to say:
after being raped in college and after meeting a bunch of other women who had also been raped, I had a terrible time trusting guys. dating felt like playing minesweeper. working in a factory felt like swimming with sharks. not just because of what happened to me but because it seemed like it was everywhere. statistically about 2-5% of men are rapists but it felt like 20-50% to me.
it's kinda sad to say this, but one thing that helped was realising that most rapists target women close to them. so as long as I was single, I was able to breathe a bit easier. dating was harder. but in a way, working around a bunch of men - while scary at first - actually helped me a lot, because a lot of them were really nice people and it helped me recalibrate my creep-o-meter again. that is one thing that gets knocked out of whack when someone does something traumatic/creepy/shitty to you.
>>16668626 >How do you work on self-esteem? so much easier said than done. here are some things that helped me, I don't know how much they'll apply to you but I'll share them: >taking the chance to actually believe someone when they compliment you >branching out, not putting all your self-worth eggs in one basket - for me this meant learning new things, setting small goals for myself, like "this week I'm gonna go here and talk to people" or "today I'm gonna sign up for, idk, guitar class or something" >trying to see yourself from the perspective of someone you know who cares about you and treating yourself at least as well as they treat you, and/or treating yourself the way you treat other people whom you love >being aware of your self-talk and challenging negative self-talk or self-put downs
>>16668661 then you're on the right track. these things take time, sometimes years unfortunately. hell, I've been at it for 20 years and sometimes it still feels like I haven't gotten anywhere. but I have, and you will too. trust the process.
>>16668667 I actually never went to any support groups. these were just women I happened to befriend, or female relatives I happened to talk to who shared their experiences too. some of them I'd known since junior high or high school, some were friends I'd made after college. I suppose people with similar wounds sometimes tend to attract each other, so I might have unconsciously ended up with a higher than average ratio of survivors of sexual or domestic violence. but it still weirded me out big time, the fact that even without actively seeking them out, I personally knew more women who'd been assaulted or abused than ones who hadn't.
Men always seem to get fucking livid when women point out how many women keep getting raped.
Cause either men are animals that can't be taught not to rape and that's an insult to all men, or then rapists are genuinely inherently evil people who choose to do wrong and that's an insult to all men.
>>16668638 Who ever said that your fear was going to go away? I'm still scared of men, but I know that, that's a problem with me and not one with them. It means that even if I will never be completely comfortable around them, that I can interact with them like a regular person. You'll never be able to completely get rid of your fear, if it's pathological and exist within your subconscious. You just learn to cope with it and to not let your fear rule your decisions so that it withers away slowly. Like, a way that you could let your fear not control you, is by not letting guys take advantage of you when you're drunk. You only do that because you fear them, right? Well, if you keep rational reasons why not to close in your mind, you'll come to realize that there's no reason to allow them to control you, just because you're scared, and tell them to fuck off. You'll stand up for yourself because you know that even if you still feel afraid, mentally, there's no reason to give objects of your fear and hate, such power to control you. Especially when they may feel the same way about you and are letting their own insecurities cause them to be manipulative and controlling as a way to cope.
>>16668699 idk I'm just gonna start asking for shit in return. If I go on a date and tell him I'm not fucking if he's not getting me drunk, high or cash, he'll either say no or he'll pay up and that's win-win for me.
on the other hand, for some reason the brain seems to develop its ideas about what is or isn't dangerous based on your personal experiences. this is unfortunate when your experiences are very different from what's statistically likely to happen to you. statistics can be reassuring or worrying depending on how you look at them, but no matter how much you tell yourself that you're actually safe, ultimately your brain is gonna tell you "pics or it didn't happen." so you gotta provide pics. in other words, the best way to counter the impact of negative experiences is with positive ones, to help prove to your brain that even though there may still be some danger, it's not as much as you think it is. yes there's danger *and* yes you should still take calculated risks.
I tried to look at it like, every time you get in your car you could get in an accident and die. lots of people do. but most don't. it doesn't mean you shouldn't drive. it means you should drive safely and control whatever aspects you can control. and the rest of it is unfortunately out of your hands.
cognitive behavioural therapy or dialectical behavioural therapy can help with this. if you have past trauma I would actually recommend looking into dbt. all of this is easy to type and talk about but so much harder to do. and you will probably have arguments with yourself and with your therapist.
>>16667858 Top kek so you let yourself be used by chads then you come here wondering "Where Have All The Good Men Gone?" you are a dumb bitch and a fucking cunt. Good men are no interested in dealing with your emotional baggage you carry.
>>16668742 Do you realize how much you've devalued yourself too, by that? I mean tell them to fuck off, don't sell your sex to them, they don't deserve it. They're assholes, they treated you like objects and you'll just be proving that if you concede, even if it makes you feel like you're in control, you won't be. If they realize that all you need is a little cash to win a girl over, they'll do that to other girls, contributing to the cycle of women being objectified and men feeling as if the only thing they contribute to the world is their money. Stop it. Respect yourself, respect others.
>>16668791 I can give away something for nothing or I can get compensation for what I put in. Put out, that is.
I understand mankind is not an uniform entity and that this kind of a cycle of revenge is vicious and fruitless, but I just really, really, really fucking hate men and if I'm nothing more than a piece of meat, why not get my money's worth?
I WANT them to know they have to pay for my company, too. That I hate them and they disgust me as much as they hate me and I disgust them.
I want them to know that cock is disgusting and that nobody touches it for free.
>>16668777 To be blunt, both misandrists, and misogynists are the exact same people. They're both basing their actions on stereotypes and because of this, his visual may be an accurate portrayal of a group of people somewhere.
>>16668694 no I didn't, I was sober and in my dorm room. we were having sex and he was hurting me and I asked him to stop and he wouldn't.
>>16668696 >Cause either men are animals that can't be taught not to rape and that's an insult to all men, or then rapists are genuinely inherently evil people who choose to do wrong and that's an insult to all men. right, and it's pretty obvious that neither of those things is the case. and nobody in their right mind, feminist or otherwise, would say that it is. but guys seem to take it personally, or as a blanket accusation. I hate to cop out and say it's human nature, but it kinda is. if you make a negative statement about some members of a group, other members of that group are gonna stand up and say "hey now wait a minute..." members of that group should be aware and not read it as a blanket statement if it's not meant that way. but the persons making the statement should also accept that that's a kneejerk reaction that some people are gonna have, and it serves nothing to label it as deliberate trolling/derailment if it's not.
>>16668667 honestly OP I think this response answers your question. stop looking for love, and this is coming from a femanon. find a few men to shuffle between for dick service and gtfo. This post, and the other asking if you had sex while drunk when you clearly stated you were raped is a perfect illustration of how most men like to think of themselves as outliers when they're just a bunch of entitled assholes who can't even say rape exists and it's common. dont even waste your time being vulnerable with them
>>16668916 meet them online, go to hookah lounges or the mall. just do your thing, and love yourself. if you feel really great and comfortable in your skin and wear a solid pokerface, guys will not even try messing with you. they always come correct when women wear pokerfaces. that's why men tell women to smile all the time; it makes them more comfortable because they perceive the woman as more approachable. it's like, "I stopped you on the street to call you pretty and tell you to smile, now say something nice about me and engage me in light conversation bc I deserve it". or whatever
>>16668943 >hookah lounges >mall I'm not an american we don't have that shit around here.
I don't feel comfortable in my skin ffs half the time the only thing that keeps me from screaming for someone to put a bullet in my head for a mercy kill is the knowledge that this isn't fuckign america and nobody has a gun at hand at random.
the next man who talks to me is gonna get bit in the throat like I'm a husky on bath salts
>>16667591 >Men are sexual predators whose sole purpose is to get in a girl's pants
I think this stereotype has actually hurt my social life by rendering my insecure about my actions. After growing up my whole life with this stereotype fed to me I'm deathly afraid I'll actually become or be seen that way. As a result, I never talk to girls for the sole reason of being attracted to them. I'm pretty sure people would think I'm asexual or gay if I didn't tell them otherwise, because I've been single my whole life. I'm too obsessed with the idea of falling in love with a girl solely for her personality, but the fact that I refuse to be a male pervert by actually going up to girls and talking to them means I never even get to know their personalities in the first place. Yeah, I'm ridiculous.
Just explain to them that you're not sexually aroused and get slightly mad at them if they try to have sex. They're not gonna get violent, trust me. They might stop seeing you because of it. But it sounds to me that when you find the right guy, you're going to want to have sex with him anyway
Judging your personality by this thread, I understand why the men you're dating would want you to "pay up" for their company. You probably don't contribute positively in any way to the relationship you're trying to have apart from having a vagina.
>>16667591 There's a lot of shit head fuckboys out there but stereotyping all men is the same as stereotyping all of one race or religion, no matter the average there are still outliers, if you look hard enough, some of us aren't complete dick heads
>>16669926 I don't know how it is over there but i haven't seen that many dick heads of men personally and yes I'm a lad but all my friends are girls and they never cease to point fuck boys out to me if they're around
The same way you stop viewing women as irrational, backstabbing whores: You dont. You accept that the majority of the human race are fucking assholes, but you leave yourself open enough to meet the few nice guys and gals
Tumblr got me nothing. There are no men on Tumblr. OkCupid got me nothing decent. I'm not daring to try Reddit, reddit's Finland-side is like distilled /r9k/ with a little more racism, muslim- and woman-hate. I don't want to date someone who'll hate me and things I believe in.
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