So I am not having sex until marriage for religious reasons.
I am dating a very nice man, but although I have made my beliefs very clear, he always pushes me for sexual acts that I am not comfortable performing with someone I am not married to.
I have told him many times that if it is a problem for him, he should find a girl who is comfortable having premarital sex.
He is reluctant to leave the relationship for such a reason because 1) he thinks I am out of his league physically and worth waiting for and 2) he thinks we go very well together in other areas of the relationship.
I know we are sexually compatible because we have plenty of passion/ physical chemistry for each other. I just cut it off before it crosses the line.
the main issue here is that there have been several times when he has been overcome with lust and not been able to "stop" when I tell him to. In these situations, he usually ends up groping me or touching me in places that I am uncomfortable with. He always feels very badly afterwards and I forgive him, but I can tell that he is repressing his sexuality instead of accepting and controlling it.
Would it be better for me to end things? I love him very much, but I don't want him to suffer because of my beliefs. I am also uncomfortable with him not being able to control himself.
>Would it be better for me to end things?
No? You're 1/ million (or posting bait... ) why would that be good for him to lose one of the only worthwhile women left?
>not being able to control himself
he is a man
Have you had sex before at all?
Also if you wont let him touch you then theres not really any point in being in a relationship at that point. I understand no sex but no touching is pretty much over the top and I doubt you are at the point where you can find someone who will wait years to touch you because thats pretty ridiculous. Stop dating people and only date when you are ready to settle down. With your philosophy casual dating or dating without the goal of a clear marriage is hypocritical and a waste of everyones time.
I have a clear goal of marriage. I would accept right now if he asked me. I am 23 and make 70k a year as a dental hygienist, so honestly I hope to get married soon so I can have children.
Also no, I have had sex before with my first boyfriend when I was 18. I was not religious at the time and we had dated for like 2 years before I agreed to do anything with him.
To me, the whole abstinence thing isn't about "sex being bad/dirty"- it's more a matter of being able to control one's urges and prioritize beliefs and morals over lust. I want a husband who I know will be loyal to me. Dating a boy who is able to control his sexual urges is an indication that he will be faithful.
It's also important to me to be able to control my own sexual urges. I have them all the time, but by being able to stop myself from masturbating or taking things further with my BF who I very much would like to be intimate with, I am proving to myself that I will never be unfaithful.
Guys can't keep it in their pants.
You'd be better off having your parents trade your "virginity" for wealth.
That little thread of blood means nothing in society anymore.
My religion is Christianity, which clearly forbids "adultery" in one of the Ten Commandments.
In context, bible disapproves of "lustful" behavior that objectifies one's own body or the body of one's partner. It's seen as a form of overindulgence and being disrespectful to god's creation.
Sex itself is not a bad thing. In fact, it's such a precious interaction that it should not be shared with people who you do not love with all of your heart (according to the bible). By sharing your body with many people, you are sharing pieces of your heart with them. Eventually, you are left with very little of your heart left for yourself and left for God.
Tldr: it's more about self control than it is about purity. I need a guy who can control himself so I can trust him.
You know it's still possible to control urges to be non-monogamous while in a healthy monogamous relationship? It's called being normal. Abstinence doesn't mean you're any more or less likely to cheat.
Im perfectly fine with not having sex with someone. I am also perfectly fine with not touching someone. But once you have sex thats a pretty bullshit demand. Because it literally says that the person before was more important that you are. It comes off as the cock carousel mentality where you decided to get off and now look for a beta provider.
Not saying you are as bad as them, but your mentality is equivalent. You seem to think abstinence is about you which is where you are wrong. Its about the two of you. You need to make him understand that you want abstinence for the two of you. Not this selfish desire you seem to have.
>Dating a boy who is able to control his sexual urges is an indication that he will be faithful.
Youre not a virgin anymore. You cant prove your faithfulness this way.
Christ died for our sins, we aren't upheld to keep following the commandments or any of that.
Are you saying christ died in vain? Because that's what you're doing when you keep following crazy rules that nolonger hold order.
>Christ died for our sins, we aren't upheld to keep following the commandments or any of that.
Yep time to go kill people. Jesus died for my sins right.
Your lack of faith and understanding is disgraceful. He died for our sins. Not so that we could go around sinning.
If I draw a line (i.e.: don't touch my vagina please) and then he does it because he is "overcome with lust" and "unable to think straight"- don't you think he may cross lines in the future for similar reasons?
I was not religious then- the reason why I have this mentality now is because I am. If I had been religious before, I would have not done what I did. I regret it and have prayed for forgiveness, so according to my religion, I am relieved of that burden and now I can live in the way that I want to.
Also, I think your argument for the "cock carousel" would make more sense if I had been a slut in the past- but I literally only had sex with my long term bf and it was when I was an unreligious teenager. Since then I have dated other men and have had like hundreds of opportunities for sex, all of which I have declined due to my beliefs.
Actslly I have heard this interpretation of the Bible in relation to childbirth so it is not outlandish.
Actually this just provided a huge revelation for me as someone who has been veryunable to forgove myself for sinful actions. You are correct that by being unable toforgive myself I am taking Christ's life and death and ressurection all in vain.
But sin doesn't exist if he died for all of them in eternity. So christs soul is finite and you get a limited number of fuck ups until you go straight to hell?
I'm afraid you're not aware of how Christianity works.
the Ten Commandments were set in place to summarize/simplify the rules of the Old Testament (many of which are weirdly archaic and contextual). Jesus died to release us of our original sin, but that does not mean that one who chooses to live a "wicked" lifestyle can get away with it and go to heaven simply by accepting Jesus's gift of sacrifice.
In fact, to live an unholy lifestyle after Jesus died to release us from that sin would be a slap in the face.
In order to accept christ's gift, you need to constantly be trying your best to live according to the rules he set in place.
There are dozens of passages in the bible that condemn people who believe themselves to be Christians while living an unholy lifestyle.
That's what I've been trying to do.
I've been very patient with him, and I intend to keep trying as long as he is willing to keep trying- I made this thread because I want to make sure that I am not being extremely unfair to him. I would rather end the relationship than make him suffer unfairly
Giving him nothing just means hes not important to you. Guys go into heat differently than girls. Hes always going to want to push the line because he doesnt see abstinence as important and no touching is a pretty bullshit rule not worth listening to. If you show you are a reasonable person and work out a line between the two of you then thats different. Right now youre being very controlling and manipulative only thinking of yourself.
How about you tell him that the one time you had sex you prayed for forgiveness and regretted it. I could listen to lack. But if a nonvirgin just told me I couldnt touch her Id just call her out on her bullshit because shes not a virgin and never will be one again.
The cock carousel analogy still applies. Youre not a virgin. But if you truly regret your actions your past mistakes are tame enough to forgive once properly conveyed. But just demanding abstinence is bullshit because you are in fact saying that hes worth less than the guy who you had sex with.
Christ came to nullify all of what was set down in the Old Testament actually. He broke the curse that was placed on man for eating of the tree of knowledge. It is truly monumental when you actually try to fathom the meaning of Christ.
He took away the sin of knowledge of good and evil. Which means he certainly nullified the 10 commandments.
It is something much deeper about natural purity, animality, biology.
Man cannot sin because Christ has died for all of our sins and he has taken away the need to live with the curse of the knowledge of good and evil and has freed us.
My heart feels somewhat lightened but more so my mind is in awe of the awesome grace of Christ.
>But sin doesn't exist if he died for all of them in eternity
Jesus christ this mentality is sickening. God will carry your burdens not so that you can be a lazy piece of shit but because you cant carry them. Yes you will sin. But that doesnt mean sins dont exist. Sinning is never okay. But we are not perfect and it will happen. But once you take the idea that sinning is okay you disgrace him and you dont deserve to speak his name.
If you feel it is wrong to masturbate, you do find sex bad or dirty, or at least have bizarre hang-ups about indulging human desire don't you? Do you ever eat tasty snacks when you feel like it? There isn't much difference as far as "indulging desire" goes. Masturbation is completely different from actual sex.
As for actually having sex, I was under the impression that not having sex until marriage was about saving yourself for your partner. Abstaining after having already had sex seems ridiculous to me. From his perspective you're denying him what you gave to another guy, looks like you cared more about/were more attracted to the other guy. Even if that's not true it's perfectly valid for him to feel that way. If he truly loves you than it surely hurts him to be unable to have sex with the girl he loves.
He is a young man with a functioning dick and balls who is sexually kissing/touching a woman he loves and is extremely attracted to. Do you really think it's so strange for him to get carried away? If you think he's likely to get even close to being in that situation with another woman then you have no trust for him and should break up with him. Cheating on someone is more than just "giving into sexual urges". It would involve him making a conscious decision to prioritize his sexual urges over his love for you. Having sex with you doesn't involve that moral dilemma. If he is the kind of person who would cheat on you, he would have done it already, since he's not getting it from you.
It sends him the message that you don't care about him enough to fulfill his sexual needs and don't trust him to not cheat on you unless he fulfills an arbitrary time requirement. If you want to marry this guy, then why not marry him? If you don't want to be the one to ask then start dropping very heavy hints you'd like him to pop the ring. Otherwise if this is really a long term devoted relationship, you're better either having sex or saving him the pain.
Christian stepping in here
Hes not christian so end it
>him not being able to control himself
find a man who can. Ask God and have faith youll get one.
As a christian whos willing to go that far dont settle for this heathen. God will give you better.
It's a sin in pride to claim a higher power level than thy neighbor. You can't even lable a sinner as a blasphemer if they aren't actively campaigning that God is evil.
The issue with your mentality is that you are equating sex to value. The mentality you have is one of the reasons why I choose to be abstinent-
Sex and value should not be tied in that way. Someone should not be judged as more or less valuable based on who they've had sex with, how often they have sex, how they had sex, etc. Such a process results in people being used in order to improve one's "status".
I love my current bc more than I've ever loved anyone, and I am insanely attracted to him. It is very difficult for me to control myself around him, but I do because I want to prove to myself that I am able to. That way, I know it's not an indulgence. It's like eating a nice piece of candy- it's not a problem if you know you'd be okay not eating it. But if when you see it, you HAVE to eat it, then you have a problem.
Your interpretation of Christianity is very interesting and I am pleased to hear that you are interested and inspired by what you have read. However, I encourage you to re-read this verse:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV, Matthew 5:17–18)
>The issue with your mentality is that you are equating sex to value.
So do you. Because it does.
>Sex and value should not be tied in that way.
Youve already said it was. No back pedalling here.
>Someone should not be judged as more or less valuable based on who they've had sex with
Hate to break it to you but literal whores exist. Sex with them has no value.
>Such a process results in people being used in order to improve one's "status".
>I love my current bc more than I've ever loved anyone, and I am insanely attracted to him
Not as much as the guy you had sex with. After all it was enough for you to allow him to have a piece of your heart as you put it.
> I do because I want to prove to myself that I am able to.
Yeah same could be said if you were married.
>dont worry hubby
>no sex for 10 years because I want to prove I can do it
Its just selfish.
>But if when you see it, you HAVE to eat it, then you have a problem.
No one thinks like this but literal sluts. Because you think this is true Id assume you were a repressed slut. You not being a virgin would only validate that point.
I do not have bizarre concepts of sex like you say- and yes- indulging in "tasty snacks" just because I feel like it is another thing I try not to do (or that I do in moderation). I do the same with sex. I make out with him and occasionally allow touching in certain areas, but as soon as it gets to the point where I believe I'll be overcome with lust or unable to control my actions, I stop.
Conceptions of "virginity" from non-Christians looking in on Christians is interesting. We do not equate virginity and purity with value. That's an archaic system of value that was created by men to gain wealth for trading their daughters away.
The Christian belief of abstince is much more about controlling one's actions and striving to live a holy lifestyle. Many Christians who try to be abstinent mess up, and must ask God for forgiveness. As a result, we gain self-control.
I try not to judge others- but calling out blasphemy isn't discouraged.
Though I do agree that ultimately, God is the only one who can judge the truth.
(I'm op btw, not the other person who's been responding to your messages)
>We do not equate virginity and purity with value
Do not speak for christians. Your virginity is like a badge showing your faith.
This is disgusting. Youve just used christianity to try to excuse you past actions. This is why christians dont get along with each other. I could never see eye to eye with someone like you.
I don't know why you would respond in such a dismissive way to my post? I suggest you open your mind a little and try to understand what I'm trying to communicate to you.
As I have said many times, I had sex BEFORE I was a Christian. I don't know if you are able to understand what a change that was for me, but I am a completely different person now.
the sex I had with my ex boyfriend does not mean that I like him more- there was simply nothing stopping me from having sex with him and it was the socially expected thing to do so I did it.
Also, you're projecting your own views on the situation by telling me "how my boyfriend feels". My boyfriend is not threatened at all by the fact that I have had sex before because he does not compare himself to my ex. The only reason this arrangement upsets him is because he loves me very much and wants to communicate that love to me in a physical way.
I am doing this because from what I have read in the bible, this is the way that God has advised mankind to find love. There would be no point in me "banning sex for 10 yrs" because there is nothing that rationalizes that in the bible.
Also "no one thinks like this except sluts"- and most guys, apparently? Since "it's normal for guys to be unable to control themselves"?
get married, handjob or give him your dirty panties.
Also, your kids won't be religious, since it's very likely he isn't religious, and kids take religion of the father most often.
Jesus would be disappointed in that statement.
Christianity is all about realizing one's sin and striving to live a more holy life. To condemn someone who is actively trying to pursue a more religious lifestyle is not very Christian at all.
>If I draw a line (i.e.: don't touch my vagina please) and then he does it because he is "overcome with lust" and "unable to think straight"- don't you think he may cross lines in the future for similar reasons?
I say this is how I feel about the issue.
I am not abstinent nor am I Christian. But I can still see how important this is to you.
Be believes differently and so doesn't seem to be respecting your beliefs. I don't like that. You said that you don't want him to do something to you. He should 100% respect that. If he disagrees with you on anything else, is he going to waver so easily?
I'd maybe understand if the situation was something like, you told him a vague, "Not yet." Then he could interpret intimacy as a sign of, "Yes now?" But you are absolutely clear about the boundary around touching and marriage. He has no excuse to be doing this to you.
"Overcome by desire" and saying he's "just a man" are flimsy excuses of the weak willed.
I think you should move on.
And just as you eat tasty snacks in moderation you can masturbate in moderation as well, but that's besides the point.
I still don't understand why you think abstinence will make him less likely to cheat, why him giving into his desire for you is any indication he would be unfaithful, as the fact that he hasn't all this time points to the opposite.
The main point of what I said is that this relationship isn't fair to him at all, and you should either marry him or stop wasting everyone's time, either by having sex with him or breaking up.
The concept of virginity has been used to symbolize purity and obedience in the bible, but only because of its connotation in being a tool. It is not, by itself, equated with purity. Someone in our current society can "be a virgin" (hymen in tact) but still have had anal sex or oral sex with tons of different guys.
Me having vaginal sex a handful of times times with my one long term relationship before I was Christian and then begging Jesus for forgiveness and striving to not repeat my mistakes after converting is not worse than girls who claim to be Christian sleeping around and messing around with "just the tip" stuff while claiming to follow Jesus. The modern concept of virginity is nothing like what it was when the bible was written. Everything must be viewed in context. Trying to apply archaic ideas of virginity in our society creates a mess. Instead, we must try to interpret the real meaning behind the rules.
Please prove me wrong.
I'm not condemning masturbation in general- it's not something that is productive for me so I do not do it, but it's not like I try to prevent my boyfriend from masturbating or anything.
Okay- that's the feedback I'm looking for.
So you believe that this IS unfair and that I should end it if he is unwilling to?
We've been together for one year. I would prefer to wait another year before marrying him since I am literally committing to him for the rest of my life- but I would say yes if he proposed.
I don't know if he's planning on proposing any time soon.
Not really sure how to find out- should I have an outright talk with him about it or should I just try dropping some subtle hints?
>I don't know why you would respond in such a dismissive way to my post?
Because your line of thinking should be dismissed. No ones faulting you for trying to value yourself and not sleep around. But your reasons are self centered.
The fact is that you would give a previous boyfriend something so precious, but not share with someone you could marry speaks volumes about how you really feel.
>My boyfriend is not threatened at all by the fact that I have had sex before because he does not compare himself to my ex.
Of course he isnt threatened. Hes not a virgin. Expecting you to be a virgin would be bullshit on his part. That fact that you wont have sex with him though is a clear sign of how you saw your ex and how you see him. You refuse to return his love yet you would do so with someone else.
>it's normal for guys to be unable to control themselves
yeah it like of touching a girl. because we are inexplicably attracted to women. Which its advised that people dress humbly. Telling someone that you cant touch the person you love is nonsense. No sex is one thing because we are more logically bound than women. If you can appeal to our logic its easy to restrain yourself. Theres no logical reason why you cant touch someone.
>There would be no point in me "banning sex for 10 yrs" because there is nothing that rationalizes that in the bible.
theres nothing that rationalizes proving that you can go without sex as well. Yet thats what you are here doing. Trying to prove that you can because you think proving it means you will be faithful.
This post literally calls virginity an archaic idea. Yet somehow you dont see how blasphemous your post is.
Theres more to virginity than an intact hymen or do you not think men can be virgins. Youre just trying to nullify your past by dismissing the value of being a virgin.
This is as sensible as saying "I never wanted to blow people up who disagreed with me until I joined Islam"
OP you are very confused and life is going to be very unkind to you when it dawns on you that once outside the cloistered, controlled and archaic confines of your church's teachings people think you're weird and strange.
As for thinking your future husband is less likely to stray if he's going to suffer you blue balling him now, well, no.... it's likely going to go the other way and when you decide to your libido is waning and that his should too, well he will remember this time of his life and think 'no way is she doing that to me again'.
See, what you're doing isn't choosing a partner with self control, you're manipulating him with promise of rewards to come later. Sure that will happen but for how long? It's not your right to control his sexuality by deciding under what terms you want sex, the same as he has no right to demand it from you.
No doubt, and I mean with 90% certainty, you are setting him up to fail in years to come. Look at the statistics, and not from your church, but from divorce courts nationwide.
Life is about acceptable compromises.
A year is a little early for marriage, in my opinion. Marrying too early is probably the number one mistake in abstinence-based relationships. You should definitely have a very serious conversation with him about how he feels about this. I can't say I agree with your beliefs on this but I'm not here to challenge them. If he says he's really willing to continue waiting, then that's great for you two, and you should keep trying. If this is the case, then do your best to be understanding and supportive of him. Know that this isn't easy for him. At times when he gets "carried away", you can stop him, try to not make him feel bad or guilty for this. If at some point he decides he can no longer wait you'll have to make the choice of marriage or letting him go, and that's that.
My thinking is not self centered- it's God-centered. I VERY MUCH want to have sex with my boyfriend. I am not doing so because I believe it is what is best for the relationship to grow healthily.
Also, as I said before, I was not Christian so sex was not precious to me. It's comparing two completely different situations.
>you refuse to return his love
I do not. Again, we are very passionate and compatible sexually- I give him a lot of love and I I treat him like a king.
My belief system was completely different before- I understand that if I were a Christian and I had caved and had sex with someone before it would be like what you are saying- but it's a very different situation. If I were an atheist now as I had been when I lost my virginity, I would have had sex with my boyfriend ages ago.
It's not no touch. He is allowed to touch my breasts and my vagina- but he is not allowed to play with me or try to arouse me.
>yet that's what you are doing
From reading the bible, this is the message that I've gotten from it. I feel that this is what God it's telling me is best for my development, so it is what I am doing.
I understand that from a non-religious standpoint this sounds like I could just be choosing a belief to suit my interests, but I promise that this is not what I WANT. I WANT to sleep with him and indulge. But I don't think it is what God wants, so I will obey him.
The fact that WOMEN are the only ones who are valued for being virgins proves my point of it being a tool.
When was the last time Jesus had to step in and save a man who had premarital sex from being stoned to death?
Maybe if you can open your mind like a TINSY bit you might learn something new.
And again; I'm not trying to excuse what I did. I know what I did was wicked and evil. Like all other humans on the planet- I sin all the time. Being a Christian is being able to recognize those sins when they happen and not repeat them in the future.
Ok first of all I would like to mention this same thing happened to me. Except I wasn't waiting til marriage, I was just waiting til I knew him better. He was very pushy, but then would back off. I made it very very clear I was not ready. I thought he would respect me but instead he ended up raping me.
So for this reason, I would say you should end it.
However, if you choose to stay with him and he has trouble not stopping, I would recommend not starting, you know? You may be getting him too worked up for him to handle.
>The fact that WOMEN are the only ones who are valued for being virgins proves my point of it being a tool.
Literally saying a man being a virgin isnt valued in christanity. Actual blasphemy.
First of all, that was a very rude statement directed at Islam, and it only reflects your own ignorance.
Secondly, I do not belong to a "sheltered Christian community". I was raised as an atheist, and I still believe in evolution and several other concepts that most people believe "contradict" Christianity.
I decided that I would be able to gain some wisdom from researching several religions, so I read the q'aran and the bible, and took several university classes on religious analysis. I resonated with Christianity, so I accepted Jesus in to my heart.
One of my duties as a wife is to make sure that my husband is satisfied sexually. Once I am married to him, that is an important role and I will not allow my "libido to wane"
I have not made any manipulative promises. All I have said is that "I will not have premarital sex with you" and "you are welcome to find another partner and leave the relationship if this is something you are not willing to commit to".
Divorce counts are so high because we live in a society that is very promiscuous and non-commital. My beliefs are actually the opposite of that- I will be extremely faithful.
>I give him a lot of love and I I treat him like a king.
Yet there you were having sex with other guys. But not for your king.
>My thinking is not self centered
No they are. You think not having sex proves something and you are using it as a way to manipulate and control him because hes just a boy if he wants to have sex with you.
>but he is not allowed to play with me or try to arouse me.
And why is that?
>From reading the bible, this is the message that I've gotten from it.
Ive read the bible many times and no where does it say that not having sex proves you will be faithful in marriage. Thats the self centered manipulative part.
>I could just be choosing a belief to suit my interests
You are. You just find it convenient to say thats what god wants.
There is much more of a focus on the women being virgins than the men being virgins.
There are times when men are tempted, but only by women who are depicted as wicked seductresses.
I don't expect you to understand, you're likely a close-minded man who has done little to no research on this subject.
God has spoken. Look... Quad 6s and triple 5s.
Seriously, if this is what God wants then why would he have brought you two together? Maybe he's giving you a message.
BTW, letting him touch your breasts and vag but not stimulate you.... That is indeed cruel and unusual treatment. I think this guy has proven his worth by not being an asshole about it.
I understand your point of view but wow, you are really pushing the boundaries on reasonableness. I don't think God wants you to torment him any more than he wants Islamist extremists to hurt people in his name. This is a fair comparison if we take God's will into context.
>I've read the bible many times
HAHAA OH WOW.
Sorry. I shouldn't be rude but that is a blatant lie. You've probably herd some some out of context scripture being quoted a couple of times in your life.
I'm obviously not getting through to you as you are blatantly ignoring what I am saying and trying to tell me what I think and why I think that way.
If it were up to my desires, I'd be having sex with him right now instead of having this discussion with you in the middle of the night. Somehow you think that I am maliciously trying to withold sex for my boyfriend to torture him. I don't know why you have such a warped perception of me, but I wish you luck and I hope you have a nice night.
Now youre taking personal shots at me because you were called out on your blasphemy. Not that I expected more.
>There are times when men are tempted, but only by women who are depicted as wicked seductresses.
Because thats the role of women in most societies. The seducer of men. Obviously this is going to be talked about more than the other way around. I have never heard of a whore house for women to go and sleep with men. Im sure there is one but it just goes to show how much the emphasis on men being tempted than a woman in society.
Do not try to spin this into thinking that a man being a virgin is not important. Thats just you trying to remove the importance of virginity because you arent one.
reading the bible is pretty much standard for anyone who has pursued a liberal arts education in America yet you think that everyone lies to you.
You only validate how self centered you are.
>I know we are sexually compatible because we have plenty of passion/ physical chemistry for each other.
You literally have absolutely no idea if you're sexually compatible. What the fuck ate you talking about?
Perhaps God brought us together to improve my boyfriend's willpower? He used to have a problem with drug addiction which has stopped since we have been dating, so maybe learning to control himself around me has helped him learn to control himself around drugs?
Also, by "letting him touch" I mean like while we're snuggling or something- I'm not going to be a harpy and yell at him for holding my chest while we spoon.
He much prefers being able to touch and not stimulate than not being able to touch at all
No my dear, I am not the ignorant one. I can see your point of view but I also see many years of frustration and friction in your life as things you take heart in run counter to reasonable compromise.
As for my comment with Islam mentioned, it's actually a positive for the religion and a negative for practitioners who warp it into an unreasonable implementation of the faith.
Nobody can know God's will, or even if a deity truly exists. So all anyone can do is implement their best guess of s/he's intentions for humanity.
If that means blue balling some guy to the limits of his patience then so be it. But it's a moronic interpretation of God's will and really just a manifestation of your manipulative personality using God as an excuse to indulge in whatever perverse mental satisfaction it brings.
YOUR LIVES ARE AS EMBERS DRIFTING ON THE COLD WIND, AND SOON THE FIRE THAT SPAWNED YOU WILL DIE. AS THE ENDLESS NIGHT DRAWS CLOSER THE MADDENED BEAST YOU CALL A GOD WILL TOO BE DYING, BUT NEVER I. SERVE ME WELL IN THESE MATTERS AND PERHAPS THERE WILL BE A PLACE FOR YOU BY MY SIDE WHEN I EMERGE.
DO NOT BE AFRAID. FOCUS ONLY ON THE SOUND OF MY VOICE AND I WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU MUST DO.
BY WAY OF YOUR PULSING BLOOD AND THE STRINGS OF YOUR SALIVA ON HIS LIPS AND THE DAMP CLOUDS OF SCENT THAT YOU EMIT FROM YOUR PALE AND QUIVERING FLESH, YOU WILL INFLAME YOUR WOULD-BE LOVER WITH DESIRE. INVITE HIM INTO YOUR BEDCHAMBER. LET IT BE KNOWN TO HIM THAT TONIGHT WILL BE THE NIGHT THAT YOU CONSUMMATE YOUR ROMANCE, AND THEN, AS HIS PUPILS DILATE AND HIS FETID HUMAN BREATH QUICKENS WITH LUST, SLIT HIS THROAT AND WRENCH BACK HIS HEAD AS HE SCREAMS AND BLEEDS AND DIES, AND AS HIS BLOOD TRICKLES DOWN TO POLLUTE THE COLD HARD EARTH, PRAY TO ME. PRAY TO ME AND HIS BLOOD AND HIS FEAR AND THE PAIN OF YOUR BETRAYAL WILL SEEP DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, LIKE THICK BLACK SLIME, INTO THE CAVERN SO FAR BENEATH THE SURFACE WHERE I WAIT, WHERE I SLUMBER IN MY ANCIENT AND CRUMBLING TOMB, BUBBLING RIVERS OF SIN AND BILE, SLABS OF MARBLE ADORNED WITH SUNKEN AND LEPROUS FLESH, THEY WILL NOURISH ME, OH, HOW THEY WILL NOURISH ME.
IT WILL NOT BE LONG. SERVE ME WELL. THE DAY OF MY AWAKENING DRAWS NIGH.
>I'm not campaigning that god is evil so I'm not blasphemous.
Typical atheist belief. blasphemy goes further than just saying god is evil. You are campaigning that god promotes sins. Using his name to further your agenda which disgraces him. This is incredibly blasphemous.
OH MY GOSH I CANNOT.
I'm sorry but you are extremely sexist.
There's not a whore house for women to go play with men because women had no power and were used as objects by men!! It reflects male corruption if anything- not that the "evil women flocked together to seduce the poor men"- the men manipulated poor women in to prostituting themselves to survive!
Virginity in men is important- it should be equally as important in women. Unfortunately, it is much MORE important in women because men literally used it as a trading chip for like oxen and goats back in the day. No one's ever traded their "precious virgin boy" for 20 goats because back in the times when the bible was written, men had far more power than women. Women weren't even allowed to technically own things like goats.
Seriously watch a documentary on this or something. Your concept of virginity is like crazily warped
I have a question- why am I being manipulative? I have a personal belief, which I told to my partner. He is welcome to walk away from the relationship if he so chooses. How am I being manipulative? I am not comfortable having sex with him right now and that is that. What about that is manipulative? He can literally walk away if he doesn't think it's worth it
As someone who grew up in a Christian/Catholic environment, I can already tell you that this is not going to end well for you. It feels like he's trying to change your mind. Aside from that, even if you two are compatible he's not respecting that aspect of you and it's something you deem important. If he can't respect that, then you need to end the relationship.
You are using the misdeeds you others to say that virginity isnt important. Look I know you arent a virgin but dont try to use others actions to excuse yourself.
And you only think its sexist because you arent a man. Take a christian man and christian woman. Who do you think is more likely to be seduced and corrupted sexually by society. A man cant even turn on tv without seeing scantily dressed women. Women have plenty of power to seduce men. It isnt men that seduce other men. Now show that whore house meant to seduce women.
You dont understand because it seems you are already too corrupted by society and your interpretation is biased.
>He is welcome to walk away from the relationship if he so chooses.
This is exactly how you manipulate and control a person in a relationship. You treat them like shit and then give them the ultimatum painting it like its their fault because they are flawed in some way. Its indistinguishable from any other type of abuse a couple could go through.
Has he expressed any desire to break things off, OP? Is he strongly against your views or waiting? What is his religious background?
I think these things need to be answered before decent advice can be given.
Also, you're wasting your time arguing with these people. Most of them are either incapable of or unwilling to understand where you're coming from.
Oh my gosh you literally have me sounding like a feminist you are so close minded.
You are so privledged you cannot see the corruption in our society. Yes- those ads hire women to pose and advertise the products- you know who are the ones hiring those women? For the most part, they are men. ALSO- maybe if you were able to CONTROL YOUR PENIS, you would not face such a problem. We live in a society that encourages sexual promiscuity for men, and does not in any way advocate self control or restraint. This is not the doing of women- this is the doing of corrupt and manipulative ceo's who manipulate the weak minded to make a profit.
I in no way did either one of the things that you said.
I understand that it's a personal difference between us. I in no way said he was at FAULT for wanting sex. I said it as something that I personally was not interested in before marriage.
Why are you projecting so hard?
The only reason why he feels guilty is because when he crosses the line, he betrays my trust. Is it not normal for someone to feel bad when they break their partner's trust?
>You are so privledged you cannot see the corruption in our society
No one said society isnt corrupted. But its not women being being fiercely attacked with provocation.
> ALSO- maybe if you were able to CONTROL YOUR PENIS, you would not face such a problem
You only say this because as a woman you dont have sex forced down your throat in the same way. It doesnt matter if a man is in control of the situation or not. Society through women, seduces men. Women dont have this problem.
>This is not the doing of women
So its not women doing the seducing now. I didnt realize those scantily dress people on tv were men.
No, he hasn't. He isn't strongly against them- he tries his best to respect them and has agreed to wait with me, he just takes it too far sometimes.
He was not religious after going to church with me a couple of times he started reading the bible on his own. He apparently even started a prayer/reflection journal. So he seems to have a genuine interest, at least.
I know. It's just hard to ignore when 80% of the posts are irrelevantly criticizing my beliefs. Having been atheist before, I see a lot of how I used to think in these posts. I wish there were a way for me to sum up what I've learned and share it with them but I know that's not really possible.
>I in no way said he was at FAULT for wanting sex
see your post here>>16666240
>Dating a boy who is able to control his sexual urges is an indication that he will be faithful.
The withholding of sex is classified legally in a relationship as a form of abuse. But here you wont let him touch you. Cant try to control a person more that that.
>Is it not normal for someone to feel bad when they break their partner's trust?
If it were that simple people wouldnt continually do it. Hes blaming himself because youve made it so that its his fault because you are controlling and manipulating.
If he's willing to wait then I don't think you should break it off. What you should do, however, is make sure that he is very aware of how strongly you feel about him trying to push the boundary when he gets over excited.
I think the best way to do that would be to tell him you love him, but that you don't want to make him suffer and that his actions and inability to control himself in the heat of the moment concern you. Basically tell him what you told us in the OP. Have a long conversation about it and make sure you're on the same page.
If he's actually in it for the long haul then he'll control himself when he sees how serious you are.
>I wish there were a way for me to sum up what I've learned and share it with them but I know that's not really possible.
It took me a hell of a long time and a stupid amount of arguments with atheists for me to accept that the only way people can go to God is by themselves. You can try all you want, but no matter what the jump is an exclusively personal one.
Withholding sex is a form of abuse? So he's entitled to my body then?
Give me a break. You're trying to manipulate me much more than I've ever tried to manipulate my boyfriend.
No where in my post did I say that I've berated or criticized my boyfriend for his desire to have sex.
You've obviously had something happen to you. I'll pray for you, I really do hope you are able to resolve what's been troubling you.
>Refusing Sex = Emotional Abuse
>Withholding sex in a "loving" relationship is Emotional Abuse. Denying one's partner the bond which cultivates closeness and intimacy with them is Emotional Abuse.
Im not making this shit up. Legally in a marriage you can claim abuse and get a divorce this way. Youre just sheltered.
>No where in my post did I say that I've berated or criticized my boyfriend for his desire to have sex.
Implying that if he left it would be because he was a boy. This is how women try to cut down men. Its disgusting and manipulative.
>I'll pray for you
kek. I wonder what goes through someones mind that makes them think they can pray for others so that they can appease their manipulative nature.
Yes, in MARRIAGE.
That's literally like the whole point. I don't want sex UNTIL MARRIAGE. Then, I am both legally and religiously obligated to satisfy my husband.
What I am doing right now is not abuse- I am not yolked to this man yet. He and I have not been united in the eyes of God, so I am not going to have sex with him yet!! The reason why it is abuse is because that person cannot just walk away from the marriage- in my situation, my be is free to walk away if he decides this is not for him.
If he left, it would be because of differences in our beliefs- nothing more. I have made this very clear In my posts, you are creating something that isn't there.
I will pray do you because you are obviously hurting to be projecting so passionately.
I am not trying to be manipulative, and I think that my actions thus far have not been manipulative. I will pay extra attention to my words and communicate clearly to ask how he feels and make sure that he does not feel like I am manipulating him.
Thank you for your help
Tell me about it.
" I really want to have sex with this guy, and I have strong feelings for him too, but because I believe a magical being made the world, wrote a book (with ghost writers, of course. Can't go revealing his existence in any way that would prove one religion right and the others wrong. Have to make excuses for why I only use human agents, but I swear divinity is totally involved. Why would anyone lie about that?) and have decided to interpret that book in a sex negative way, I'm going to choose not to have sex with him, despite our human urges to do so.
But I love him.
Just not in a sexual way."
If you don't want to have sex with him, be honest about it.
Blaming a magical man in the sky for your refusal to put out is pretty damn cowardly however, when deep down you know theres no such thing.
You're obviously atheist- so let me explain this situation in a way that might make sense for you:
Sex, much like fighting, is somewhat of a primitively urge, isn't it? Most of us don't have sex to pro-create, it's used primarily as a source of pleasure.
Many people spend a lot of time and energy on getting sex, becoming sexier, and having sex. Lots of people are insecure about the amount of sex they have, or who they have sex with. It seems to me like our whole generation is focused primarily on sex.
So why? Unless you're trying to conceive a child, why spend all that time and energy on something that serves no other purpose than feeling good?
Doesn't it make sense to focus on other aspects of a relationship which are more important? When selecting a partner to raise a family with, shouldn't things like problem solving, financial planning, and communication be prioritized over infatuation? Many marriages end because when then sex stops becoming so new and exciting, they are left with a partner who is not a good match.
Logically, it makes sense to not have a relationship based on something as fickle as sexual attraction.
And also; if you had bothered to read Any of my posts- you'd know that I very much AM sexually attracted to him. I would love to have sex with him, and hopefully when I'm married we will have tons of sex every single day. But I don't want the relationship to be contingent upon us having sex. If he and I can have a longing, happy relationship without sex, it will just be that much better WITH sex.
He is not unsatisfied with the way our relationship is- if he was then he would leave. But, understandably he wants more. And he will get it one day, if he and I continue to be a good match for one another
Do you think he's worth it? Obviously he thinks you are but he's just a little lacking in terms of self-control and his lust. If it doesn't get you jealous, allow him to have sex with other girls while you date. I mean, that is if you're okay with it. If not, just enjoy your intimacy together and accept the fact that you're eventually going to get married anyways. Otherwise, if you believe you'd never get married and he only says these things to get in your pants, then end it.
Why make yourself and someone else suffer if you've got that much doubt?
>I am dating a very nice man, but although I have made my beliefs very clear, he always pushes me for sexual acts that I am not comfortable performing with someone I am not married to.
You should get out.
I feel I should clarify more:
This sounds like I'm telling you to literally get out, but what I'm saying is, that if you're religious and he isn't and you do get married, it ain't gonna work, at least not the way you think it is.
You probably visualize the day of your wedding to be the final hurdle but you two just don't mix, if he cant understand why you're uncomfortable with all the contact then he won't understand other things you do when you have kids for example.
this is 2016. even religious people don't "Really" do that anymore.
plus fucking isn't actually as important as you think. its not some magical fucking experience thats going to change your life. its not even really that great. give the nigga some head at least bitch. if you got a big fat nasty pussy and he doesn't find out until you're married you're gonna have a shitty marriage
>the main issue here is that there have been several times when he has been overcome with lust and not been able to "stop" when I tell him to. In these situations, he usually ends up groping me or touching me in places that I am uncomfortable with.
Draw the line farther. The less tempting you are, the less he will have a hard time to stop.
What's your problem?
If she doesn't want sex until marriage, the simplest way to achieve that is not to arouse him until marriage and marry early. You can yell about it all day that what she does is wrong, if she is convinced that she is right so much that she is willing to break up over this, this is the solution to her problem.
Maybe you just don't like sex? The guy is obviously worried that you will not want sex when married! Have sex now to show him how sexy you ate ans also whether you are sexually compatible with each other!
You are preventing yourself being truly connected with the man you love because if some shit some guy made up 2000 years ago. Don't be such an idiot and do what you have lust for, not because of some ridiculous rules.
You should ask /pol/. The prurient whores on /adv/ are all going to insist that you become as big as a slut as they are and that it's normal in 2016 to have several STDs or children with unknown men.
Is your boyfriend also religious?
All the degenerates in this thread are wrong, I entirely support what you're doing. But if you consort with a whoremonger, with no love for Christ in his heart, then I think you are better off breaking it off and finding someone who shares your values.
t. Orthodox convert Christposter from /lit/
>had sex before
>not having sex now, sorry current bf.
try looking at this from his perspective. its really not complicated at all.
if you still had your cherry I guarantee you it'd be a completely different story with your bf. But you don't.
You're a used car and you're expecting him to pay the new car price. you're a shitty deal OP.
And I guess a major part of faith is sacrifice, right? You might lose this guy, and many more in the future, because of your oath of abstinence.
I honestly respect what you're doing and think its a good move in the longterm. But in the shortterm its a really shitty deal for any guy who doesn't share in your beliefs towards sex.
If I were you I'd encourage him to find other sexual outlets (sluts on the side) while you dated. Otherwise you're kind of forcing your own morals onto HIS sexuality, which is fucked.
Either that or find a guy who's as Christian as you are. I've actually known a handful of churchbros who were looking for exactly what you're offering, but couldn't keep the girls they were dating off their dicks.
I'm not OP, and I actually completely agree with you. You can't force others to die to the world, they have to do so themselves.
Part of being in a relationship is mutual respect. If one sets boundaries and the other crosses them then they are disrespecting you and your autonomy in the relationship. Rather than debate your religious beliefs I think everyone should take a step back and analyze the dynamic of this relationship. Girl sets boundaries due to her beliefs, guy tries to break them and is noticeably upset by his attempts. I think he respects you op but he can't resist natural urges. Some guys can but he cannot, of course he has the decency to not actually force himself upon you and claim unresponsibility by blaming you. He's a good guy op, you guys just aren't compatible. Look for a guy who fits in with your religious beliefs.
The other anons spend too much time caring about what some randy believes than actually helping them with useful advice. What a shame
I dont usually think this, usually Ima "to each their own" kinda guy, but Ill say this: Your religious reasons are stupid and make no sense
Have sex. Its what we were made to do. Stop torturing the poor guy over what some retard believes god wants you to do
If God truly is all knowing and all powerful and shit why the fuck would he want to restrict sex until marriage?
It doesnt even make sense within the context of its own religion.
This is the exact reason why it's a good idea. Why are men allowed to express themselves sexually as if it were the same as breathing while women cannot?
What a hypocritical concept