How do you learn to tolerate fighting? I have zero tolerance

So in your mind, it's either "ask kindly" or "yell at people"? Are you a woman?

>>16663563
If you think WOMEN are the ones who don't fight, you're living in a quite different world than I do.

If I share my opinion about a matter, and my opinion is ignored, I believe it's quite logical to conclude that my opinion is not considered valuable. If someone doesn't respect me, they don't respect me. No amount of yelling at them would make them enjoy and value my presence more, so there is no reason to try.

>>16663558
Hey op, I'm in a similar situation as you. I don't really have any /adv/ to provide, really, but I completely sympathize with you. My solution is cutting contact with these people (namely my parents, I don't really have friends that are like this), but I can't do that until I get my stuff out of their place (I know it sounds easy but I can't right now due to my job requiring travel). I don't have the time to waste on adults who argue like children who never developed self control. Its not productive and screaming never ends in a compromise.

>>16663558
>How do you learn to tolerate fighting?
By getting good at it
>I have zero tolerance for conflict of any kind.
Because youre a pussy
>If someone disagrees with me, does something I don't like or goes against previously agreed rules, and continues to do so after I already asked once nicely, I always just assume that they are hell-bent of doing that the way they're doing forever and just abandon the whole thing.
Literally you are weak willed. Id run over you too. If you cant defend your point it just means it was invalid.
>I cut people out of my life with what others apparently perceive as zero warning on a semi-regular basis
This is common. Youre too weak willed to protect yourself so you cut anyone out who you deem a threat.
>The mere concept of yelling at people until they do what you want them to do makes
Have you ever realized you cant make people do what you want. Just convince them its the best option. You sound like a little bitch no lie. Men do go around yelling at others to do what they want.
>I also can't stand it when other people fight.
probably because you know youd be crushed immediately like the little wimp you are if you were in their shoes.
>I don't visit my family as a group anymore because they are constantly arguing, and since I can only see very few of them one-on-one, there are several family members I don't see for months or years at a time.
You just straight up dont love your family. You cant accept them because of your own weakness.
>My mom and sister insist that they don't fight much at all, and that I am too fast to interpret any sort of loud or emotional disagreement as a fight.
Because they dont. People are meant to disagree about things. Any person with an opinion worth any merit will advocate for their position in the face of conflict. you dont understand this because youre a weak willed faggot who runs given any chance.

>>16663606
>make polite requests of how I'd rather do something if I disagree with them.
People advocate for what they think is in the best interest. Your feelings dont mean shit to anyone. Learn to advocate your point because it just sounds like you dont have one.
>If they express no care or interest in whether I am happy with the way things are done, I don't fight. I naturally assume that they don't give a shit about me as a person and abandon them.
Im sorry for calling you a little bitch. You are clearly a woman. probably a teenager not in control of your emotions. No one gives a shit about how you feel something should be done. If they agreed they would have let it go. You are wrong. They are right. Youre the faggot who doesnt understand that and wants to do the wrong things. Anyone who cares about you will try to lead you down the right path whether or not its what you want to do you little faggot.
>And that is the reason why most of my friendships and romantic relationships last less than a year.
Honestly its for the best, for the other person. ive realized that people like you cant be saved. because any time someone tells you that you are wrong you shut down and run away. Youre worthless as a friend. Friends try and lead each other to become better. You cant lead anyone anywhere because you dont have the balls to defend yourself and you cant be helped. No use wasting time on you
>How do I learn to fight people?
How about you say what you think. Listen to what the have to say. Criticize their criticism. Its really straight forward.
> I literally can't imagine a more massive waste of everyone's time
Thats because youre worthless as a human being. A person argues with someone so that they can lead the other person into the light they so fervently believe in.

>>16663622
example time
>timmy dont play in the street
>I can do what I want fuck you
>but timmy...
>NO
>okay... okay timmy. Ill just cross you out of my life.
>little timmy dies playing in traffic
Any person who cares for another would tell timmy to get the fuck out of the street even if they have to do it by force. Timmy's feeling dont mean shit. You are honestly worthless to society.

>>16663606
I don't argue, because there is no such thing as "agree to disagree". If i started arguing, it will escapate and won't end before push comes to shove and, say, a domestic dispute turns to domestic violence. Starting a fight solves a situation much less than removing yourself from the situation.

I have a friend who chews with her mouth open. I asked her to not do that, once, and she responded by chewing with her mouth open louder. Considering that she is one of my closest and most valuable friends, I didn't just dump her right there and then, but I just never see her in situations that involve food. It's been ten years and I still won't have dinner with her.

>>16663630
>because there is no such thing as "agree to disagree".
If there was people wouldnt argue you little faggot.
>If i started arguing, it will escapate and won't end before push comes to shove and, say, a domestic dispute turns to domestic violence
wtf did I just read. Are... you stupid. If beating someone up proved your point then there would be no point in arguing. Youd just go straight to hitting.
> Starting a fight solves a situation much less than removing yourself from the situation.
If you dont fight for what you believe in no one will. Enjoy being a worthless faggot who has no merit to society.
>I asked her to not do that, once, and she responded by chewing with her mouth open louder.
Have you, you know thought about firmly expressing just how fucking much it bothers you. She has every right to chew with her mouth open and fuck your feelings. But a good friend, if they realize just how much it bothers you, will concede because its not worth losing a friend over.
How do you gauge how much it bothers you friend, by how strongly they advocate for you to stop. And if they still wont stop, in light of how strongly you advocated, then you can gauge just how important it is to that person. After all thats what friends do. Not this cookie cutter bullshit you seem to want.
>It's been ten years and I still won't have dinner with her.
Alright youre a child. I dont even know what Im bothering with you for. Go ask you parents because youre mentally underdeveloped still and they have the best chance of helping a little faggot like you.

>>16663622
If you could make people stop being wrong by talking to them, there would be no war. Unfortunately, that is not how the world works.

>>16663625
>Timmy get back inside
>no I wanna play
>no it's getting late get back in
>no
>lock the doors, leave his ass outside for the night
>he won't pull that shit again

Adults in my life are not children.

>>16663644
>If you could make people stop being wrong by talking to them, there would be no war. Unfortunately, that is not how the world works.
Thats why you argue first and dont go straight to nuking.
Good thing no one tried to argue with hitler about killing all the jews right. itd be terrible if a war started. Better let the jews all die
You are a little faggot. Someone so weak willed literally doesnt deserve to live.
>Adults in my life are not children.
You cant take responsibility for others. Of course you cant handle children. If you cant guide and adult how can you expect to save a child. Are you saying if timmy was older youd still let him die. You are literally incapable of being a friend to someone.

>>16663640
>If beating someone up proved your point then there would be no point in arguing. Youd just go straight to hitting.
It's the same damn thing. The goal is to make your opponent stop making noises, and for some reason some value wasting time making noise instead of just going somewhere else.

>If you dont fight for what you believe in no one will.
I believe I deserve to be treated with respect. No amount of shrieking will make people who do not value me to value me.

>Have you, you know thought about firmly expressing just how fucking much it bothers you
That is exactly what I did. You already know her response. And again, we've known each other for too long and she means far too much to me to give up on.

>>16663656
>You are literally incapable of being a friend to someone.
And that is what being a friend means? Screaming at someone until they do what you say?

>>16663668
>The goal is to make your opponent stop making noises
HAHAHA youre actually stupid. The goal is to make them concede that your point is right and they are wrong.
>I believe I deserve to be treated with respect.
Theres no respect for a weak willed faggot. No one values you because you are a weak willed faggot. Hate to break it to you, but people dont consider shrieking, fighting. You are right that no amount of shrieking is going to help you. But as long as youre a little faggot who cant fight for his values then dont expect respect.
>That is exactly what I did
>..c-c... can you, n... not.... d-d-d-do..dooo thaaaat
Id ignore you as well. You obviously dont care enough for her to have any incentive to actually stop doing something she wants.

>>16663673
read some plato. holy shit learn what a friend is. A friend isnt there to appease your bitchy little feelings. Its to set you on the right path no matter what.
Youre such a little bitch you cant distinguish between defending a point and screaming. Go take a debate class. Your weak willed faggotry is triggering me.

>>16663684
>The goal is to make them concede that your point is right and they are wrong.
If the person was capable of seeing reason, they would not have been wrong in the first place.

>Hate to break it to you, but people dont consider shrieking, fighting.
What's the difference?

>..c-c... can you, n... not.... d-d-d-do..dooo thaaaat
"Sorry to interrupt you but can you please stop doing that?"
"Doing what?"
"Chewing with your mouth open. I can't stand that sound, it's like nails on chalkboard."
"SMACK SMACK SMACK SMACK."

>>16663693
To be honest, both of you sound like irritating cunts.

>>16663693
>If the person was capable of seeing reason, they would not have been wrong in the first place.
Youre actually stupid. Like actually actually stupid.
When someone is wrong, a friend will straighten them out and correct them. You cant be a friend to anyone. I get it. Id be mad to if strangers were trying to correct me.
>What's the difference?
If you werent stupid you could see. Gotta let hitler kill all the jews right. Human rights, I believe in that, but if you dont and want to go around raping and torturing people Im not gonna say anything.
>"SMACK SMACK SMACK SMACK."
She successfully proved that her desire to continue was greater than your wish to be her friend. But again you cant be friends with anyone because it requires you to not be a little weak willed faggot so yeah, this will easier break you and your acquaintance up.

>>16663707
She is wonderful in literally every other way. That's why we're friends.

>>16663716
Yeah, that's what I mean. Birds of a feather and all that.

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You people are the cancer of society.
Arguing is what prevents colossal fuck ups. It is not in any way "the fuck up" unless you deliberately made mistakes to lead up to it.

Plenty of people fight fruitlessly, but once you get over the typical fallacies and welcome the opportunity to accept/ admit that you are wrong, all fights turn into discussions/ debates.

As a natural ENTP/ INTP/ INTJ, I can't stand the "there always needs to be peace" type of people. These idiots typically end up making crappy or cringey stuff, because introspection or discussion is so feared. No one is allowed to be true to themselves or each other. Fuck off.

>>16663713
>When someone is wrong, a friend will straighten them out and correct them.
Okay. Let's assume that this matter covers more than just being factually wrong, because it does, and being wrong about facts was only an example that I was trying to use that you somewhy decided to fixate upon.

Let's say you're in a relationship, and you and your partner agreed to do the housework alternately. Your partner, however, does not clean when it's her turn. At all. Ever.

Do you

A - do it yourself because you can't stand living in filth

B - scream at her in hopes that being screamed at makes her care about the fact that you can't stand living in filth

C - dump her and find a new place because you can't stand living in filth

Why is B the right option again?

>>16663732
Again with the false dichotomy of screaming at people and being a subservient little bitch. Do you not realize that it's possible to argue a point you stand firmly by without raising your voice?

>>16663737
"Why are you trying to change me? Do you not love me? That is just the way I am and you have to accept it, no matter what!"

>>16663732
Because youre a little bitch who cant argue without screaming.

In this scenario, you argue and argue until you realize that not matter what you say and how you say it, you cant change her mind.
At this point youve done absolutely everything in your power to change her mind so you either pick between A or C if B fails.

>>16663741
Okay... How is that in any way relevant to what I said?

>>16663737
Your words, please dont make him believe you are me. But you are right about the dichotomy of him thinking its either being a little bitch or to scream. Thats what Ive been trying to get at but couldnt find the words.

>>16663737
If you disagree with someone and calmly tell them why they're wrong, they'll start talking back louder than you were talking, and you are left with the choice of either continuing the escalation until you are both screaming at each other, or you can drop the whole thing and cut that person out of your life.

I CAN argue my point firmly without raising my voice. I can also stick a flat iron to my face. The matter is, neither action particularly benefits me, so I don't do it.

>>16663732
>>16663742
Guess I should state it a little more clearly for the faggots here. B which is only done because you dont know how to argue, is the only choice that could set her on the right path. If you didnt actually believe that she was wrong then you would just do A. Or if shes not someone you care about do C.

>>16663753
>you are left with the choice of either continuing the escalation until you are both screaming at each other, or you can drop the whole thing and cut that person out of your life.
No, this only happens because you cannot argue your point. You are a weak willed faggot and you get trampled on in an argument. You cant control the flow of the argument. If saying something louder makes you concede then theres no point in not saying it louder.

>>16663753
Just because yells at you doesn't mean you have to yell at them. Thinking that you do only proves that you don't in fact know how to argue.

>>16663758
I'd really, really like to introduce you to my sister.

You can sit her down and calmly explain her that people who are listening to music outside of her comfort zone in her presence are not exposing her to it as an act of violence and to insult her.

I'm sure it'll go well.

I'll borrow you earplugs.

>>16663763
So your sister is a piece of shit. Does that mean that the only option is to lower yourself to her level?

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This "explain it to them and if they don't agree cut them out of your life" mentality is so fucking reddit tier.
Completely self absorbed but still highly valuing the comfort of society.

It's clear that these people never had any "brotherhood" relations. Sibling or roommate shit. Despite some flaws, despite fighting, being able to wake up the next day and still work together with them to pull through with the task.

The WORST people are the ones who fight + cutoff. Personally offended. "I don't want to be around people who don't like me." Pathetic.

The BEST type of people are the ones who fight for their point, but prioritize the wellbeing of the goal/ environment and the wellbeing of the person they are arguing with. They try to get down to where there's a difference in point of view, get everything out on the table, truly understand where they agree, and more often than not help each other discover that they don't actually disagree with anything.
Because in that sense, arguments BUILD you, the other person, and improve working towards your goal. Think about designing a game, or an app for instance. No arguments means mediocre shoddy design, with no vision, no deliberation, just grey mediocrity. A lazy middle ground.

>>16663769
If you live with animals, your options are either to lower yourself to their level, or get rid of the animals.

If people listened to reason, they would be reasonable. If they were reasonable, they would come to the right conclusions on their own, and therefore not be wrong in the first place.

>>16663763
Id like to hear her argument as to why they are. They in fact could be.
If I had a little kid anyone who cant see that its disrespectful to play vulgar music around them is clearly in the wrong.
If its just a stranger then I dont care enough about them to stop them, but if its a family member Id fight as hard as I could before having to stop bringing my kid around them

>>16663558
It sounds like you don't even understand the concept of argumentation.
>I have zero tolerance
So you can't be convinced.
>I always just assume that they are hell-bent of doing that the way they're doing forever
So you won't even try to convince others.
>I cut people out of my life
Because you don't internally understand that opinions can change, and that means people who disagree with ANY of yours must be somehow incompatible with you.

You must have very few friends if you can't discuss or change your mind. You must not realize that most of these people are at least somewhat compatible with you but you are confused by their attempts to communicate their ideas. All you see is how willing people are to disagree, but you're not considering how likely they might be to change their mind about something.

I think this because you characterize all disagreements as "conflicts" and "fights." It doesn't sound like you have ever tried actually winning one of these or proving a point ever. I'm not sure what to make of this but people I've met with similar views often go out of their way to remain neutral on every conceivable subject.

The problem really is that "fights" are not fights, they're just inconsistencies between two peoples' views. Ultimately they will either change each other's minds or agree to disagree even if you don't see that.

>>16663774
>If you live with animals, your options are either to lower yourself to their level, or get rid of the animals.
Which is why people have never domesticated any animals. There is just no way that you could train animals to behave in a way that you want them to, right? Just fuck off.

>If people listened to reason, they would be reasonable. If they were reasonable, they would come to the right conclusions on their own, and therefore not be wrong in the first place.
Because it is not possible for someone to not have all the information, or to make a flawed argument when thinking about something and arrive at the wrong conclusion. No, people are either perfect machines or animals. Are you autistic?

>>16663785
Nah hes just a little bitch who cant win an argument. So clearly every time he loses its because the person is an animal. Weak willed faggots like him cant be saved.

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>>16663774
This is bait.

Either that or this person is autistic and thinks they've never been wrong once in their entire life.
Disgusting.

>>16663776
Okay, allow me to explain the context of that thing. This happened today.

My mother was watching this reality tv singing competition in the kitchen, and was calling for my sister to cook dinner like she had planned (my sister had bought ingredients for a chicken salad, and she won't tolerate anyone else's way of making this particular chicken salad. I don't understand how the fuck it's possible to fuck up a goddamn cicken salad, but apparently only she knows the right way).

Already upset about being ushered to do something she had said she would do, my sister asked mom to turn the tv off while she's in the kitchen (my sister doesn't like domestic pop music). My mother didn't.

So they started fighting, because my sister was angry at mom trying to force her to be exposed to music she didn't like, and mom was angry about never getting to listen to her music, at all, ever.

I don't know how the situation ended because I went for a walk. When I got back, they were both sulking at the opposite ends of the house, but there was silence and a bowl of chicken salad.

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>>16663783
WINS THREAD

Have this rare enlightened pepe

>>16663793
Like mother, like daughter, it seems. I'm sorry for you for having to live with two unreasonable shrieking harlots, but that in no way means that yelling at people is ever a good thing to do.

>>16663785
>Which is why people have never domesticated any animals. There is just no way that you could train animals to behave in a way that you want them to, right?
Do you know how most animals were domesticated? You beat and sceamed at them until they did what you wanted them to do.

You can't negotiate a compromise with a cow.

>Because it is not possible for someone to not have all the information, or to make a flawed argument when thinking about something and arrive at the wrong conclusion.
If I give someone the right information once, and they continue to do wrong, does that not mean that they either want to be wrong, or do not value me enough to waste their time considering the information?

>Are you autistic?
I was tested because of an unrelated issue, and I had some traits but not enough for an asperger's diagnosis. It's not as rare or unusual as you'd think, most people just don't get tested for that shit unless there's something obviously fucked up.

>>16663793
Sounds like they worked everything out to me. try shooting down every single point your sister makes. If you are right and she is wrong. Then criticizing her will be easier.

>>16663810
>Do you know how most animals were domesticated?
You're thinking of training. Domestication is consensual. They identify it as the best way to survive, and actually they're right in most cases.

>>16663810
>Do you know how most animals were domesticated? You beat and sceamed at them until they did what you wanted them to do.
>You can't negotiate a compromise with a cow.
Yeah, no. >>16663819 said it best.

>If I give someone the right information once, and they continue to do wrong, does that not mean that they either want to be wrong, or do not value me enough to waste their time considering the information?
Not if you "give them the right information" in this smug, condescending manner. Sounds to me like you just suck at explaining shit to people.

Make up sex. Also fighting enforces friendships.

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>>16663812
She doesn't make points. She'll just storm around the house making this face and mistreats pots, pans and furniture to the point of breaking them. Mom just shrugs and says that my aunt and dad were both like that and there's nothing you can do.

Why the fuck she married someone who's as much of an insane insufferable cunt as her sister is still beyond me.

>>16663819
>Domestication is consensual
what the fuck are you smoking

>>16663810
>If I give someone the right information once, and they continue to do wrong, does that not mean that they either want to be wrong, or do not value me enough to waste their time considering the information?
I'm fairly stubborn and sometimes have a problem with my ego. Not about admitting I'm wrong, but usually about my core beliefs that have been built up through bias confirmation over many many years. To question it and then drop it all in 2 minutes is a monumental task to do.

For example, I don't like going to parties. "Come on man, they're fun! If you open up you will definitely have a great time! Come on, just dance!"

I can go on and on and on about how or why I don't like parties, but if they just say "man, you just don't get it, maybe you're not made for parties" then that just supports my bias and gets nothing done. If they listen to me and sit through/ discuss stuff with me, I'll start being more vulnerable about it. If I get enough reinforcement of the opposing view, my bias will eventually fade, and I'll take the conclusion that is meaningful/ logical.

But these things usually take time. Especially people with big egos/ high dignity.
Typically if they fail to come to your right conclusion, either you are wrong or you're doing a poor job at leading them to the conclusion. Asking questions is the best way to do this, and keeping them involved/ not being condescending is how you keep them from just abandoning the change. Either way, these "I care about you" fights ends with no screaming, regardless of how they start.

>>16663835
I think you don't know what domestication is, my man.

>>16663828
>Sounds to me like you just suck at explaining shit to people
How do I explain "please do not mistreat me, ignore me and walk all over me, it hurts my feelings" in a way that people understand it?

>>16663841
Say exactly that every day and stop reinforcing their biases if there's something they don't like about you.

Don't "correct" them. That's condescending. Make them observe the result of their actions. Make them see the opposing side. Stop reinforcing biases. Take it slowly.

>>16663841
By manig sure that they give a fuck about your feelings. And if they don't, why do you call them your friends?

>>16663835
>she doesnt make points
Then shes not arguing. Shes already lost.
>She'll just storm around the house making this face and mistreats pots, pans and furniture to the point of breaking them.
Shes butthurt she lost. Teaching how to handle losing isnt your moms job. But if you want to try and help her understand she shouldnt do that then it shouldnt be too hard to convince her. After all you believe you are right and she is wrong.
>>16663841
By not letting people mistreat you, ignore you, and walk all over you.
No one gives a shit about your feelings.

>>16663838
>these "I care about you" fights
I'm afraid you don't understand the nature of "this argument is over when you give up" fights

>>16663848
>Stop reinforcing biases
I took the first course of psychology because I had to, and I slept through the entire thing. I know how to spell those words but I don't know what they mean when put into a sentence.

>>16663852
>By not letting people mistreat you, ignore you, and walk all over you.
But that's what I do. I dump them.

>>16663855
Because that is not arguing, that is venting.
Sometimes venting can LEAD to arguing, then debating, then discussing, then resolving...

But wise people are completely capable of taking it to a more meaningful step. Even if someone comes up screaming at you "STOP BEING MALE AND WHITE!!! I WANT TO KILL YOU!!!!" you are still capable of redirecting that to a meaningful discussion if you're smart enough.

This skill has nothing to do with intelligence or knowledge.

>>16663867
And then you whine about having to do it instead of growing a fucking spine.

>>16663867
>But that's what I do. I dump them.
No you run from them. For acquaintances its fine but you can never have friends.

>>16663867
>I know how to spell those words but I don't know what they mean when put into a sentence.

Basically let's say "all women are skanks that don't care about my feelings"

I go to a bar, find a woman, be nice to her, she gets the hint that I'm interested, tries to redirect me to someone else/ let me know she's not physically interested.

"WHAT. THE. FUCK. YOU DON'T LIKE ME, DO YOU? I knew it. ALL women are ALWAYS like this."

It's reaffirming a belief. Like if I believe global warming doesn't exist, if I only read articles proving that global warming is a myth, I'm just reaffirming my belief, my bias.

>>16663875
I don't understand what you want me to do.

>>16663879
Are you saying I go out of my way to find people who mistreat me?

>>16663889
Maybe you repel decent people who wouldn't abuse you.

>>16663883
If you believed that being mistreated was wrong, and it was your friend doing so. It is your responsibility as their friend to set the on the right path. Thats what friends are for. Youre not their friend so I dont expect you to do anything. I dont do this to people who arent my friends either.
Honestly Im really surprised that these people consider you a friend. How you managed to fool them escapes me. Id never be friends with someone who couldnt stand up to me. If Im messing up somewhere, I expect my friends to correct me when Im wrong. Not walk out on me.

>>16663894
How do I stop doing that, then?

>>16663896
How should I know, I don't know what you're like in the first place.

>>16663896
Arguing is one of the ways you can gauge someones character. How someone debates says a lot about them. You cant attract decent people because youre an invisible weak willed faggot to them. This leaves people who see a little bitch and think they can take advantage of you.

Seems retarded to drop someone out of your life for disagreeing with you. If I dropped everyone I ever fought with I'd have like 2 friends.
You don't even need to fight, just instead of dumping them, let them cool off and go back to normal. How autistic can you be

>>16663895
>I expect my friends to correct me when Im wrong. Not walk out on me.
If I correct you once and you ignore me, you were not my friend.

For example, I have a rule of three when it comes to being interrupted. If I get interrupted twice while trying to say the same thing, I'm not trying a third time.

>>16663900
You tell that I'm doing it wrong, but you can't say how to do it right?

>>16663904
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're saying.

Screaming at people for not caring about my feelings makes them care about my feelings?

>>16663906
I don't let people walk all over me. That's why I only have two friends.

>>16663915
Screaming is not debating. Get it through that thick skull of yours.

>>16663906
This.
My best friends are people I CONSTANTLY disagree with. Full on all caps scream fights. Despite that, we pull through and make stuff together, have fun together, talk to each other.

There's a fundamental respect we have towards each other, so when one of us disagrees with the other we actually care for the others' opinion.

>>16663912
>If I correct you once and you ignore me, you were not my friend.
kek this is great. Sorry but saying something doesnt mean you are right. You have to prove it you little faggot. And anyone who would give up on someone that easily isnt a friend. A friend is like a parent or family member. Imagine if you parent throw a child into the trash as soon as they threw a tantrum. You didnt love the child. You dont love you friends. You cant carry the weight of being there for someone. Honestly I dont see how you convinced people you were their friend in the first place.
>For example, I have a rule of three when it comes to being interrupted. If I get interrupted twice while trying to say the same thing, I'm not trying a third time.
This is a great rule for when you have nothing important to say
>hitler dont kill jews bec...
>hitler jews are peo...
>hitler killing is ba...
>[watches hitler slaughter jews]

>>16663925
We also understand that we are both flawed and fucked up. But we never get offended at the idea of being wrong. We both can deal with calling each other "FUCKING RETARDED" because we're not weak willed and emotional babies

>>16663915
>Screaming at people for not caring about my feelings makes them care about my feelings?
Actually yes. because you are screaming I am more likely to believe you actually care. Anyone can say they dont like something. I cant gauge how much.
That being said if you scream Im probably just going to troll and ignore you. But I at least understand your feelings. If you can argue like an adult though Ill hear you out and am more likely to give way. Ill troll the shit out of a child who cant advocate their point though. Like your friend who started smacking. Thats exactly how I treat push overs lol.

>>16663558
You make everyone walk on eggshells around you if you won't allow them to be angry without cutting contact with them. People want to be able to express their true emotions without fear.

Alternatively, people want to know where you really stand on things, otherwise they feel like they can never trust you or really know you. If you just swallow anger and avoid conflicts, people end up having no idea how you really feel about anything, and that scares them.

The point of yelling at someone isn't to get them to do what you want, it's to let people know how strongly you feel about something so you can actually work things out between the two of you.

>>16663927
>You have to prove it you little faggot.
If I say something hurts me and you keep doing it, leaving you is all the proof you are going to need.

>Imagine if you parent throw a child into the trash as soon as they threw a tantrum.
This one time when I was a kid, dad had had a long day at work and came home to witness my sister having a tantrum. He turned around and left back to work.

>You cant carry the weight of being there for someone.
Why would I do that to someone who won't do the same for me?

>Honestly I dont see how you convinced people you were their friend in the first place.
I treat people decently if they treat me decently.

>This is a great rule for when you have nothing important to say
A diamond is only worth more than granite because people deem it to be so. If what I say is not valued, they must not value me, and therefore I have no reason to waste both of our time by continuing to associate with them.

>Hitler
Do you really, really, really think nobody ever told hitler that killing people might be wrong?

Also, why are you so fucking fixated with the nazis? Does this arouse you?

>>16663937
>Actually yes.
You can't fucking be serious.

>If you can argue like an adult though Ill hear you out and am more likely to give way
So what will someone you don't value or care about have to say for you to start valuing and caring about them?

Can you talk someone into loving you, too?

>>16663966
>People want to be able to express their true emotions without fear.
What kind of a person fears losing contact to someone they don't care about?

>If you just swallow anger and avoid conflicts, people end up having no idea how you really feel about anything.
Then why not listen when I tell them calmly?

>it's to let people know how strongly you feel about something
As far as I've understood, "but I want it really really bad" was not an argument that works in adult negotiations.

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>>16664065
>Why would I do that to someone who won't do the same for me?
>I treat people decently if they treat me decently.

I literally want to kill you right now, you're exactly the type of person that needs to stop existing
It's like you think you're entitled to be treated with some respect

I want to tear your ego apart sooooooo bad

>>16664139
>entitled to be treated with some respect
>your ego
I don't understand the issue here.

Could you please be so kind as to sit me down and calmly explain to me why I don't deserve to be treated with respect?

>>16664065
I really hate to lean on that term, but everything you say just makes you look like an Autiste Supreme. People are not the 100% logical machines that you seem to thhink they are. Usually, they need to be told the same thing in several different ways, especially if it's something as central to their personality as, for example, the way they treat their friends and acquaintances. The notion that they will change their ways immediately after being presented new data is retarded.
If someone legitimately abuses you, then I don't know why you would call them your friend. At the same time, if you gripe at them over something minor, they might not consider your grievance to be legitimate. This is why you need good social and interpersonal skills to be able to get your point across and convince them. If you give up after saying one sentence, it's clear that you do not have these skills.
Also, you seem to view the world as exclusively black-and-white. Just because someone doesn't immediately change their behavior to accomodate your spergy needs doesn't mean that they don't care about your feelings. Newsflash, idiot, the world is not here to please you. If you want to cut off people over every little detail, feel free to do so, but don't then turn around and bitch about not having any real friends or acquantances.

Oh, and one more thing: Get over that victim mentality of yours. Just because someone does something you don't like doesn't mean they're out to get you or don't think you don't deserve respect.

>>16664161
Your life is meaningless, the universe is meaningless, you can die at any second to any bullshit, no one deserves anything, not even human rights, law is a mental construct that works out to most peoples' benefit/ comfort, you are lucky to be alive

You have no place in the universe, everything is impartial, there is no hate but there is "love"

But you, YOU, and I, we don't deserve ANYTHING. If some guy wants to come up and kill either one of us, that's their imperative.

you literally do not matter, stop thinking you do
your identity will one day be permanently gone
divert your attention to observing and building connections, not climbing artificial ranks

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>>16664183
Congratulations on being the edgiest boy in the room.

You don't get an award.

>>16664181
How many times do I have to tell a person the same thing before I can tell whether they don't know or don't care?

>>16664183
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of this.

>>16664065
>If I say something hurts me and you keep doing it, leaving you is all the proof you are going to need.
How many times do I have to say it. No one gives a shit about your feelings. Hurting your feelings isnt wrong. When little timmy cant play in the street his feeling are hurt. You think anyone gives a shit about his feelings. You cant justify your emotions. You seek others to just appease your feelings. You want others to prove it for you. HERE you just explained how you are incapable of defending yourself.
>He turned around and left back to work.
Did dad cut her out of his life like you do people. Only you are this much of a faggot.
>Why would I do that to someone who won't do the same for me?
Because they would. But seeking the help become become better has nothing to do with your shitty little feelings. And if you wont do this then you arent their friends as Ive been telling you. You cant and will never have friends. You will never have to do this because you are incapable of having friends.
>I treat people decently if they treat me decently.
Some of the best people in my life are the ones who teased and picked on me the most. Like an older brother who might bully you but unlike others who treat you 'decently', only he will come to your rescue unconditionally. You lack the capacity to love someone it seems. I dont give a shit about how much you tip toe around my feelings. Anyone can do that. Only a true friend will be there for me though.
>If what I say is not valued, they must not value me
Such an entitled little faggot. Hate to break it to you but you arent that important. Prove your worth. Its not assumed. If you never say anything of value and cant prove its value, then its not valuable.
>Do you really, really, really think nobody ever told hitler that killing people might be wrong?
Someone did. Because they werent a faggot like you. You on the other hand would just let hitler go. its little faggots like you who watch and the innocent suffer

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>>16664195
But there's literally no point into wanting to be treated with THAT kind of "respect"
It's such a devolved entitled mindset that just screams "autistic" and "failed normie"

It's so fucking worthless and the deep rooted problem in so many people, and the root to their deep sadness and anger towards the world. "I'm not getting what I DESERVE!!!"

Fuck what you deserve, the world is chaos, you've been dealt random cards, life is meaningless, stop wasting it on trying to get what you only THINK you deserve. Life is not made to be comfortable and fair. There is no karma.

Hell, even in the context of religious doctrine, the universe is a shitstorm, and your ability to stand up against your pride is literally the strongest and most badass thing you can do, and it will lead you onto a fulfilled life, even if that life only lasts 3 days or so (due to the bullshit/ randomness of it all)

I can't stand these lazy idiots when literally 5 minutes of thinking/ realization will turn them into people capable of changing the world

Nope! They're intelligent, and they deserve to be treated with respect, "just like everyone should be."

>>16664065
>You can't fucking be serious.
Very much so. A baby cries to express itself. If you dont vocally express yourself than what you have to say is worthless. Only you have to narcissistic view that it has worth. But that is for others to judge.
>So what will someone you don't value or care about have to say for you to start valuing and caring about them?
Oh I value and care about most people. I assume that they have merit and character. You I wouldnt but I dont assume most people are like you. If you can keep you calm, and defend yourself against my trolling I personally back off and respect the person way more. I cant be childish with an adult. And adult is immune to things like that. Ill hunt you down though and start smacking in his face.

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>>16664224
I love you.

>>16664203
>How many times do I have to tell a person the same thing before I can tell whether they don't know or don't care?
If they really don't care, sooner or later they will tell you. Until then, you keep on reiterating.

>>16664207
So I have no right to wish people would treat me the same way people treat others?

My choice will always be between bullying and isolation?

>>16664252
>So I have no right to wish people would treat me the same way people treat others?
Sorry, dont expect people to have the same values as you do. because in general people dont share the same values. Through arguing though you can come a little closer.
>My choice will always be between bullying and isolation?
as the other anon said, stop with the false dichotomy. Im not going to entertain this line of thinking anymore. If you truly are too childish understand that you can defend yourself then youll just have to grow up.

>>16664260
I just can't stand screaming. I'm never witty when I'm angry so I'll just end up suttering and have all of them gang up on me.

>>16664277
So you admit that you in fact can't argue? Have you considered working on that?

>>16664277
Work on expressing your feelings while saying the factual information. Even admit that you are wrong. Like:
"I want you all to just shut up but I know that this will have to be resolved in a more complicated matter. This is just making me fucking furious and upset"

THAT is fine, and often overcomes the stuttery nature
I would know because I used to be like you but then evolved from that line of thinking that I need to be strictly logical
You need to be expressive rather than just presenting information.

>>16664327
DID I NOT JUST MAKE AN ENTIRE FUCKING THREAD ABOUT NOT KNOWING HOW TO ARGUE

CAN

YOU

FUCKING

READ?????????????????????????????

>>16664343
You never deliberately asked about how you could overcome it

... Maybe you were just mentally sparring with us and trying to get us to arrive at the conclusion/ solution for you? If so, you need to express/ ask whatever the hell it is you want

>>16664277
Dont scream. Calmly and rationally speak whats on your mind. Defend yourself from criticism. If the person seems like they are determined to have a shouting contest just tell them that youll continue it when it seems theyve calmed down. Learn to debate. Its honestly not that hard.
Dont try to mimic how you see other people argue and debate. That isnt for you and nothings wrong with that. Even if you stutter, if you continually express your point, frequently and consistently then others will definitely see how important it is by how determined you are. As in after you sister is done with her tantrum. Go talk to her. If she gets too upset put the conversation on hold and go back later. This is how you treat people you care about. They might get caught up in the moment and not see what you have to say, but if they see how important it is to you they are more likely to open up to what you are saying.
Also dont try to be witty. If its not natural to you then it will only make things far worse.

>>16664343
Youve been saying the entire time how its others fault for you not being animalistic like them. Weve just been cutting down your narcissistic view so far. You didnt have a true wish to learn how to defend and express yourself. Only now does it seem like you realize the problem isnt others but you.

>>16664351
But why would they care about arguing more once the situation is over?

If I go to my sister and bring the situation up again, she'll go right back to the tantrum, 1 to 100 in two seconds.

I'd rather people are unhappy without me than I be unhappy with them. Being cut off SHOULD feel like a slap in the face, that is usually the goal.

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>>16664390
>Being cut off SHOULD feel like a slap in the face, that is usually the goal.
It's not.
At all.
That is EXTREMELY immature behaviour. I've seen it done ALL the time, from attention whores to narcissists.

>>16664390
>But why would they care about arguing more once the situation is over?
because if you care about them youll try to improve them. not just so that for that moment but in the future as well
And cutting people off doesnt feel like a slap in the face the way you think it does. Its hurts because you realize that person isnt the friend you thought they were. Not in the punishment type way you are aiming for. Stop being childish. That type of action is disgusting.
>I'd rather people are unhappy without me than I be unhappy with them.
Gotta learn to love people. A parent will do everything in their power to make the most of their child no matter how unhappy everyone becomes. Because at the end of the day its their job to make sure timmy doesnt play in the street. If you cant carry that weight you arent that persons friend. Friendship has highs and lows because becoming a better person is an ugly painful process of having to admit that the person you are right now could be better.

>>16664405
Rejection isn't pleasant, even if it's coming from dirt. As a matter of fact it's even more of an insult, and if the lukewarm unpleasant surprise of being refused by someone you marginally even tolerate is the most I can make them feel, I'm going with that.

When life gives you rocks, you build a catapult.

If little timmy won't stop playing in traffic because you told him so, he deserves to be hit by a car. If he lives, he won't do it again.

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>>16664435
You... You think we are offended by rejection...

..r...ree... get the fuck out, normie...

>>16664435
kek. Is kek out loud a thing because it should be.
From an outsiders perspective sure, timmy deserves to be hit by a car, but anyone who loves timmy wouldnt just let him go.

>>16664489
what kind of a loving parent would let their kid out to play in traffic in the first place?

>>16664532
None. Thats the point. This guy is saying the hed only tell timmy not to do it once then let him go because it just means timmy doesnt value him.

>>16664556
Yeah but the difference is whether you're telling something to your friend for your benefit or his own good.

My friends don't profit anything out of not interrupting me or treating me with respect.

>>16664569
>My friends don't profit anything out of not interrupting me or treating me with respect.
>My friends don't profit anything out of treating me with respect
>friends don't profit out of treating me with respect
>friends
>respect
You really are autistic.

>>16664569
>My friends don't profit anything out of not interrupting me or treating me with respect.
Confirmed for never having a friend. Stop thinking about yourself so much. You shouldnt let your friends disrespect or treat people badly. Or not let them ignore the pleas of others without hearing them out. Id never let my friends do this to anyone in front of me. Your problem is that narcissistic attitude. No one gives a shit about your feelings.

>>16664579
>Id never let my friends do this to anyone in front of me.
I never see them do it to anyone else. If they do it, they don't do it when I'm around.

>>16664597
So are you not a person. Youre just the only weak willed faggot they can do it to. You are making them a worse person. Not a better person like a friend is supposed to.

>>16664601
I don't understand what you want me to do.

>>16664607
Defend yourself like a functioning member of society and set your friends straight when they cross lines assuming you ever learn to have friends and what it means to love someone.

>>16664607
Grow a backbone, you spineless autist.

>>16664624
What am I allowed to do? Stabbing a guy in the neck with a fork over the dinner table would probably be autistic, but so is not doing anything about being disrespected.

>>16664657
Please tell me what you've learned in this thread. Lay out in your own words what lessons you've taken from what we've told you.

>>16664657
>Im not going to tolerate being disrespected.
>leave if necessary
If its someone you care about you go back at some point when everyone is done being autistic and you use your words and express your point and see what you can do. If you dont care about them then just cut them out.
What youve been doing is fine since it doesnt seem like youve ever had a friend but if you want one this is how you treat people.
People will respect you for handling things like an adult.

>>16664678
Trying to rationally argue matters out loud is healthier than just ditching people over the first offense, most people don't resort to violent retaliation when they are confronted, I am wrong to assume people function logically but also wrong to imply that they don't, and I am a worthless faggot incapable and undeserving of ever giving or receiving love.

>>16664689
>Trying to rationally argue matters out loud is healthier than just ditching people over the first offense
>most people don't resort to violent retaliation when they are confronted
Correct.

>I am wrong to assume people function logically but also wrong to imply that they don't
Here's the thing: Both of these are true. And the reason for that is, simply put, because other people don't function on the same logic that you do. A lot of interpersonal relationships are built on understanding the logic that drives the other person.

>and I am a worthless faggot incapable and undeserving of ever giving or receiving love.
Also correct, but here's the million dollar question: Why do you think this is?

>>16664706
>Also correct, but here's the million dollar question: Why do you think this is?
Because I am a bad person and have yet to muster the courage to undo my parents' mistakes and kill myself.

>>16664719
No, but the correct answer also includes "mustering the courage".

>>16664729
if I start talking back they'll shut me up.

>>16664743
Ding! That's another part of the answer. Now can you connect the pieces into what the lesson is?

>>16664753
I am terrified of other men and should stop trying to befriend them.

>>16664766
No, this will not stop you from being a "worthless faggot incapable and undeserving of ever giving or receiving love".

>>16664777
it'd make me stop being treated like one.

>>16664808
True, but the goal here is to improve your life, not to fuck it up even further. Try again.

>>16664819
I don't understand what you want me to say.

>>16664826
Okay, let me spell it out for you: You have to learn how to stand up for yourself when your "friends" try to shut you up. You have to learn how to do it without screaming. And you have to learn that it's okay to stand up to your friends at all.

Forget your "rule of three". Forget your misguided notions of "people who don't change their behavior the moment I tell them to don't care about me". Understand that the world is not black-and-white and that you will invariably disagree with your friends on a lot of things, but if you don't throw in the towel the moment you encounter resistance, you can make anything work.

That is the lesson you should be taking from this thread.

>>16663558

Im not in the same situation I've always seen arguing as a poor form of dealing with situation, but to flat out cut people from your life for it seems like you have issues of your own. This is what I picked up about you from reading that.

>You don't acknowledge that there is a problem,
>You don't try to do anything about your issues
>You walk away at the first sign of a problem
>You stay neutral and passive regardless of the situation
>You don't even try
>You don't even try
>You don't even try

O.P. defend yourself and defend people you care about. Fuck you're a negative person, there is an entire life beyond that narrow minded garbage you believe saying to yourself
>"nobody respects me"
>"people ignore my opinion"
It's tough because respect and trust are earned, and the ability to stand up for yourself is respectable, being resilient is respectable, running from your problems and abandoning people who give you a chance isn't.

Be passionate and honest, don't run from fights but you can acknowledge that some aren't worth fighting, quit being so selfish and start thinking about the feelings of those around you.

Your sister and your mom ignore them,their issues are as petty a your own, but your friends are different. Pick a side or cool them both off and be sympathetic to reason. If you don't pick a fight sometimes it's as bad as condoning it, unless you know how to be the greater power in a situation (and you don't from reading this) it's impossible to to be neutral without looking like France during world war II, we make fun of them for a reason.

Finally, I haven't seen any semblance risk with you. If you have never felt hurt, or afraid, or lonely you have never taken a risk, and you haven't truly lived. Standing up for yourself the first time takes a lot, asking that girl out in 3rd grade was nerve racking, and emptying yourself so you feel nothing, at least that doesn't hurt, right?

>>16664850
How do I stop fearing violent retaliation?

If I speak up, someone's bound to break my jaw.

>>16664852
>defend yourself and defend people you care about.
The only people who ever attack people I care about are the people I care about, and I don't know whether to pick the side of the person who's objectively right or the one with the mental illness who needs support the most.

>If you don't pick a fight sometimes it's as bad as condoning it, unless you know how to be the greater power in a situation
So escalating petty drama is the RIGHT course of action?

> If you have never felt hurt, or afraid, or lonely you haven't truly lived.
conveniently I have this chemical imbalance in my brain which results in me having all these feelings for free without the need for a rational source or purpose.

>>16664883
Nobody is going to break your jaw just for speaking up. It may happen if you escalate an argument into a shouting map, which is why you need to know how to prevent that, but if you remain civil, nobody's going to attack you.

>>16663571

Are you retarded? You need to do a bit mor than voice your opinion to bring someone around to it. There's a reason it hasn't naturally occurred to them.
Your opinion is not a fact, stating it is not the same as pointing to the sky and stating it's blue. That, one would generally have to just accept. Your opinion is something you need to explain. Not fight over, just debate and allow to be understood.
You accuse people of not respecting your opinions by not instantly caving in the second you bother voicing them, but you don't respect people's ability to rub two fucking brain cells together and think with you for a moment, you just write them off, I mean holy shit.

>>16663558

Look dude,

Arguing with people, is pointless. Fighting with people is pointless- if someone punches you, pushes you, attacks you, you're under threat- try to hurt them as badly as you can, really make them bleed.

Other than that, why argue with people? Why fight? It's all extra drama and bullshit in your life.

Fight once every 5 years when someone in the street shoves you.

>>16664900
>Fight once every 5 years when someone in the street shoves you.
That is the one time you don't fight, because that literally doesn't matter

>>16664896
If it doesn't occur to them on their own to treat me with the minimal amount of respect required for a human being, no amount of nagging about it will change their minds.

>>16664923

You're fucking retarded. Blindly falling to your opinion over their own when you don't even believe in what you're saying enough to convince them of it is not withholding you any amount of respect. What the fuck makes you so important?
Cutting people out of your fucking life because you have zero faith in their ability to behave with more brains than a retarded dog is completely disrespectful.

>>16664921

what.

If someone you know, attacks you, then you fight, because it's morally justified to beat them, it's stress relief for those 5 years of repressing the urge to hurt people,

But if someones yelling at you, just shrug your shoulders and walk away. Yelling is stupid, and never solves anything

Even if you feel tempted to beat the guy that's yelling at you- don't. Save that anger, and let it out on the next drunk guy to shove you.

>>16664923

You do realise that it's YOU who's immovable here, right? You're the one who's decided your opinion is by default correct and most important, and decided that any sign of resistance is incurable grounds for dismissal.
The reason your mother and sister consistently argue is because they consistently give each other the benefit of the doubt that what they're saying matters enough to try and discuss it. But other people matter so little to you that you'll cut them off for next to nothing.
Do you not realise how fucking insane that is?

>>16664932
You're misunderstanding. These are not arguments about what the US should do about the political situation of Turkmenistan. I'm not expecting people to worship every word I say.

All I'm asking for is not being interrupted, talked over, walked over and ignored. My opinion is that I should be treated with as much decency as everyone else and not deliberately singled out to be mistreated and made uncomfortable.

>>16664883

>defend yourself and defend people you care about.

see 1 below

>>If you don't pick a fight sometimes it's as bad as condoning it, unless you know how to be the greater power in a situation

*pick a side, my bad

but this includes your own, you can do this without making a situation worse, and again you really need to think about others.

Don't enable that "mentally ill" person futher by agreeing with them, you create a further deluded person.


> If you have never felt hurt, or afraid, or lonely you haven't truly lived.

It certainly doesn't seem like it, if youre running from your problems how is that accepting that these feelings are normal,

Quit complaining on the internet, stand in your own truth, go out and solve your problems

>>16664947

So everyone else is treated with this decency? I thought seeing other people stupidly yelling at each other is what put you off. Where did the sudden persecution complex come form?

>>16664941
> suppressing rage meme
No one I know will beat me up in the streets. The people that push/ shove you in the streets are random people you never know looking to get into a fight so they can beat the shit out of you/ try out their new weapon they bought.

You don't suppress rage if you don't build up rage to begin with; learn to fucking gauge your reactions/ instincts you normie faggot

>>16664961
Oh, the matter is I don't like fighting and I don't like being treated badly. They're in the same mental cathegory to me, so I probably didn't even think of making an explicit difference between the two. Sorry for the confusion.

>>16664962

Of course you get angry- everyone gets angry. If you don't get angry, you're not a man.

Being a smart man vs a stupid man is knowing how to control that anger, and use your logic to say 'hey there's 10 people here if I touch him I go to jail' and walk away.

Yeah, the people in the street that shove you are the ones that want to fight- so why not indulge them? No jail, no moral dilemma, no problems.

Plus, if someone shoves you, they have their hands extended out all the way, nowhere near their face... just smack them as hard as you can, and keep going, they won't get a chance to recover

>>16665000
>going to jail is the worst thing that can happen if you get into a street fight

>>16665000
Because violence like that is fucking stupid
When I get angry if I got the chance to fucking kill an imaginary version of themselves in a game or something, I'd think "this is fucking gay as shit, what next, I'm going to start calling people who use an umbrella a faggot?"

I'd rather punch a douchey CEO of a company and get 10 years in jail, just out of spite. Not because of the catharsis, but to send a message/ have their reality hit them.

>>16663558

>144 posts/12 posters

Another troll thread.

The problem here is when people don't learn to agree to disagree.

>you don't fight, you don't care about me!
>youre too busy about etc etc, you hang out with x, you are seeing x rtc, you have different goals etc, you dont care about me!

Personally I cut off anyone who brings drama to anyone's life, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt at first but if you keep crossing the line my life is worth more than the stress you bring.

You can onlt be kind and empathetic to someone until you realize they have problems they refuse to solve on their own.

And as for OP, I do that method and it called manning up. People will hate you for anything, you're goal is to bring something of value to any relationship. Set the boundaries and be open, I failed to do that in my past relationships and thats why they failed. Learn and move on.

>>16665034

And to add to this: Passive agressiveness never solve anything. Go knock yourselves out for not fixing your own issues.

this thread is the most autistic shit I've seen all year

5/7