I can no longer live in this society. I have reached a state of mind that makes it impossible to me to obey to its "laws". It goes from simple things to "essential" ones like time. What is a second ? What is a year ? Just human scales to measure time, ultimately irrelevant. When i walk on the street, i dont see our modern world, i see atoms. All these people living their life without a clue how the universe really is. They call me an asshole because they cant understand that laws, morality, dos-and-donts and all their life and thoughts consists of is ultimately irrelevant and nonexistent.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of my thoughts.
What can i do ?
You can talk to me if you want. I'll be here. I'm bored.
Or read Nietzsche.
There are countless things you can do.
The point is to forget about it. Most people understand that everything we humans do is ultimately irrelephant, but we enjoy the illusion that our senses bring.
You ever smoked a joint and listened to Kyuss? Now, I wouldn't change that experience for any greater conscience in the world.
Also, have you ever had great sex with a girl that you love? (you might call bullshit on love here, but it's still a legit human emotion)
Mind-altering substances exist because of the people who find the universe not appealing enough. They think they got it all figured out, so they rebel against the "sheeple" of the modern society.
I guess I just like pussy too much to be that much of a philosopher.
Most people are, in a way, indeed "sheeple". They live the same life, have the same thoughts. Im not saying its wrong, since right and wrong are human concepts and ultimately nonexistent. Mind altering substances can help in the process of coming to these conclusions, but the main thing is accepting the truth. Its not like you take a tab of lsd and figure out the world. So many variables play a role in thought process.
Also, can you really disagree with someone who says that he figured it all out in the sense of seeing the irrelevance ? Its a fact.
>i see atoms. All these people living their life without a clue how the universe really is.
What are atoms? You cannot see them yourself, and they too are even a human construct designed to interpret and explain the world. Nor are laws, measurements or anything else "unnatural". A "second" is a measurement of time that has occurred in the universe naturally as arising from human perception of human timescales and is just as valid as the half-life of a carbon 14 atom. You're not enlightened; you're just especially deluded.
Literally fuck yourself. All you guys do is whine about such trivial bullshit and I just was in the hospital for a week because of a genetic illness I now have for the rest of my life. Privileged fucking ass Oh boo how life is boring I'm not getting pussy whaaa
You cant see atoms ? That is true, since you only see the reflection of light from them. A second does not occur naturally. A second could just as well be double the time we perceive at it now, if humanity would have defined it that way. Its not like the humans developed and knew a second is a second. How is a law occuring in the universe naturally ? Im not talking about laws of physics ect. here. Its a misunderstanding if you think so. I was talking about laws in the sense of a government. And, as you see in history, these laws are not natural. What was the law 1000 years ago could very well be a crime today.
>You cant see atoms ? That is true, since you only see the reflection of light from them.
Light doesn't reflect off of individual atoms. They're too small: much shorter than the wavelength of visible light. That's why we have to research them using scanning tunneling microscopes and other non-light-based tools.
light and atoms are anthropomorphized concepts too, you know. The closest thing we have to describing objective reality but not definitive or even necessarily the whole truth.
Maybe we have a creator. It'd stand to our ability to reason that we cannot conceive of supreme beings motives.
It is a western idea to think that we need purpose, meaning, morality. But in seeing that there is at least some meaning as it relates to humanity in the structures of society you can find your own enjoyment within them.
Of course many people have the same thoughts:
They're proxies in society for our basic drives:
Those are our biological hardwirings. As much as we are a slave to them, at least we're the only creatures capable of overriding some of these desires with higher thought.
Even in a deterministic universe the possibilities are nearly infinite as far as we can understand the probability of it. But to become truly innovative means understanding our current limitations, which you have.
In the end, Albert Camus asked the same question and thought you could:
A) kill yourself
B) philosophically kill yourself: take a leap of faith on religion or some other analog
C) Enjoy the ride as best you can
I promise the pangs of this existential dread will become more comfortable to you. The worries others have will seem less significant to you, and you can begin to cultivate an experience that reflects your understanding of the world.
Who knows, you may even be wrong.
Christ. You know you're not the first person to have an existential crisis, like this, right? You know some really smart people, scientists, philosophers and writers, have been tackling this stuff for centuries? Your dumb ass is just too young and uneducated to have read any of them.
Next time you look at somebody on the street and your first thought is, "Wow, what an idiot, his pitiful mind can't possibly grasp the magnitude of the illusion we've built up around ourselves!" take a quick mental time-out, slap yourself on the cheek, and instead think, "Wow, he looks happy, maybe he's figured out something I haven't." It's a healthier attitude, a more mature one, and a more realistic one to boot.
push your limits OP.
You sound like me, bright but a tendency to rationalize away drive or ambition.
I'm medical school now, and its fucking hard. I've never felt this sort of challenge. Truly tests what you think of the world around you and what you're capable of if you are to find those limits.
whether people are aware of it or not, they more or less have a tacit agreement with society. Even if they don't like it, its a social contract that is structured to provide for their basic needs in exchange for some level of investment within society. Whats good for society may not be good for the planet (eg: industry) therefore the value of such things translates to monetary wealth within society. You can see it for what it is, or not, but either way most everybody is subject to its 'rules.' See that all its laws precipitate from making the machine of society run. You can reject it, but don't expect to reap its benefits afterwards. And its not all bad.
I would like to keep in touch with you. You are literally the first person i met that shares my thoughts. You dont have to, but i think it would be an interesting experience.
more and more people are coming to this state of mind, while society is more controlling and far from truth than ever. You should be with like-minded people and find a safe haven, like with a guru, or find out how to get your necessities covered without having to sell yourself. You are much closer to the truth than the nonsense the institutions of society will try to make you believe. Things will change eventually, but untill then you just have to hang on.
I'll write it down - I'm usually busy, and am here because of procrastination. But I will keep it on hand, maybe email you with a thing just so you can have mine and send shit.
More and more the question of the meaning to life has become irrelevant to me. I don't know that I've really progressed on that line of thinking. Once everything seems arbitrary, what else is there?
It may sound kind of /x/file but the only interesting ideas to me lately have been religion. Namely they have some ideas that Jesus > God, and god was an amalgamation of many gods - and Jesus offered a covenant above this earth while god only offered one within it.
I don't seem myself adopting the religion but what I know about the belief structures is that those guys figured it out long ago and wrote an internally consistent logic to blind people for their own good. They saw the abyss and wanted to guide people toward happiness/ignorance. Previously I had a lot of anger towards religion, but now its mostly just empathy, which feels odd.
But I'd love to hear if you have any revelations.
>while society is more controlling and far from truth than ever
Maybe they just have to double down now that the world is being more aware of itself. Don't you feel some empathy towards those still in society? They live parallel to us, even if they don't realize it. I try to seem them as equals, because they're people too, who have the same capacity for this understanding. I don't think they should be alienated.
Once you realize everything in life is irrelevant it becomes a whole lot better. I say whatever I want to anyone because I know in 5 years nothing will matter. Humans are just a barrier from me succeeding and the level of manipulation and influence I can have upon them is my level of success.
maybe i worded myself a bit wrongly here. I meant the forces controlling the society are getting harsher. The ordinary persons are just controlled to some varying degree, and I have nothing against them as persons. But it should be noted that many of them will behave negatively "on behalf" of the society's moral-code towards those who are more liberated than themselves in order to support their own world view, and one should therefore tread a bit carefully imo.
oh, fully agree. What comes to mind is politically correct culture. The fact that that agenda (and similarly, diversity training in corporate offices) is being pushed so hard from the top is unsettling and seemingly nefarious.
right. I hesitate towards socialism, but capitalism just uses its constituents. It probably is the better system if you don't bother to keep up with the jonses.
have already senpai, lol
I live in a relatively socialistic society, and I know there are ways to kind of get away with not participating in society here, though it gets harder and harder. The universe is made so that there always is a possibility though, one just has to meet one's own shortcomings and keep trusting in oneself, and eventually you will get through. If you are free on the inside, you can, with some effort, become free on the outside too.
I believe its zero sum. Those resources come from somewhere. Parasitizing the parasite is less noble that forging your own happiness in a corrupt society. But then again you're free to do as you please. As I see it, you're only hurting the people when you do that. I'd rather contribute in ways I can alongside them.
The truth is nobody actually knows how the universe actually is. For the most part, even you only know what you're told. Atoms might not even be a real thing, but the simulations ran with them are consistent with the chemical reactions, so it's more practical to accept them as real. You can interact with chemicals. But you don't interact with the sun, the stars, or the rest of the sky, and often not the rest of the world. Sometimes I even wonder if all these other countries exist or if anything I can't see or haven't seen works the way I think it does, and the end conclusion is the same: all I can know for absolute certainty is that I exist. I must exist, for how else can I think?
The a good way to live is then to think pragmatically under the assumption that most people are similar to you, and by you I mean someone who doesn't think he's as unique as you are because you're really not. Laws, values, and morals have developed over a very long time to be the most effective way of keeping order and an acceptable level of individual happiness. The problem is the technology that you almost exclusively perceive the world though. Indeed, with as little as the modern printing press, information comes so quickly that there simply isn't enough time to filter out the junk before you see it, and control over the flow of information becomes the easiest method of control over individuals. With TV and the internet, it's even worse. TV is completely useless, and the internet is only useful if you know exactly what you're looking for seek it out in multiple locations to make sure it's true enough to be pragmatic.
again, I agree, though I may have different view on what "contributing" is, from how I read your post. I hope to some day not have to leech, but with the society monopolizing the nature, I'd rather be a parasite and try to give enlightenment from that position than being a slave, which sadly is what the choice is between atm.
Yeah, contributing is broad. I'm working in healthcare. But anything that produces values to others in accordance with your belief system is how I'd define contribution that you can stomach. Though there's still time for you to cultivate yourself. To me that's the point of the social safety nets. To give people the chance to get off of it and become a contributing happy member of society.
I just stopped working in healthcare because I couldn't agree with the values that I had to embody while being there.
> and become a contributing happy member of society.
the society would have to change a lot before I could become a "functioning" part of it. btw, didnt you say in the OP that you couldn't live in this sociey any more? or are you not OP? havnet bothered reading the whole thread tbqh
I've stopped being patient when things arent going in the right direction, as it wouldn't do anything good to be patient in such a situation imo. I'm leaving this thread now, so take care!
You can't be expected to act out of selflessness. When you gut says you're being taken advantage of and you have to switch to self-interest I couldn't fault you at all. I agree.
thanks man, you too, I really should be going as well.