Do you find that spin-offs are often better than the original show?

>>137661318
Yeah FGO is vastly superior

>>137661318
Illya is the best thing to come out of the FSN franchise, bar none.

>>137661318
No.

>Railgun>Index
>Fate/Zero>UBW

Seems true enough

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>still not scanned

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yes

prisma illya is the only good one

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>>137661817

Railgun's superiority will be the status quo until index 3.

Better source material, more varied and interesting characters, and no touma for half the season.

>>137661893
>still believing in index 3

>>137661318
What is the original show in this case?

FSN 2006?
Fate/Zero
Prisma (which aired before UBW)

One of the messages of UBW is about how an imitation can surpass an original.

>>137661973
Indeed, and watching Fate Zero surpass FSN shows a spin-off surpassing the original.

It parallels the statement of imitations surpassing originals. Nasuverse pottery can even break the fourth wall.

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>>137662070
But in this case, Zero was the show first, so UBW is the imitation, even though it was a VN originally.

It's like a double wrap around of pottery.

>>137661638
truth

>>137661817
Railgun S>Index>Index II>Railgun

>>137663563
Railgun S(1-16) > Index > Index II == Railgun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Railgun S(17-end)

>>137661318
I was gonna say pokeman but that only applies to the animation for the most part and Misty a best girl

>>137663563
I actually agree. Good taste m8.

>>137664143
Meant for >>137663981

>>137664073
>Misty a best girl
Shittiest taste.

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>>137663981

>17-end anywhere but the top

Shit taste.

>>137664073
Pokemon Origins was actually enjoyable compared to the Pokemon anime

>>137664305
Ash Anime was more of the spinoff. Origins tried to be an adaptation of Gen I

>>137663563
>Railgun S>IndexII>Index >Railgun

Fixed

>>137661318
Not really.

I had high hopes after how great F/Z is, but UBW is a huge pile of overrated garbage.

>>137666064
Fuck off secondary.

>>137661318
Are you implying UBW is a spin-off?

>>137666102
UBW's source material was atrocious. It's the worst of the 3 routes, and that's not saying much because fate was also pretty shit.

>>137666379
Well it technically is a divergence point from the Fate route.

>>137666407
Disagree wholeheartedly. I find UBW to have the most nuanced themes and ideas presented in the VN.

>>137666436

I hated Shirou in the adaptation. He was still the same guy but without the inner monologues or backstory you get from the vn, he just comes off as a generic mary sue protagonist who wants to be a hero.

Also I found Better Call Saul to be much more enjoyable than Breaking Bad

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Sinbads manga>>>>>>>Magi

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>>137666512
Shirou still had monologues in the adaptation, there just weren't as many.

UBW relied very heavily on visual story telling, so much so that you genuinely might need to watch something a few times to properly understand it. That's not inherently a bad thing, either.

I really am not bullshiting this. Using the visuals as much as possible was a stated goal. Pic related.

>generic mary sue protagonist

Just a slew of buzzwords. I don't even know how you can describe him as a mary sue. He gets his ass kicked repeated and is told by half the cast that he's wrong about everything he believes in. Just because he triumphs in the end doesn't make him a sue, if that was the case countless protagonists would be as well.

>Also I found Better Call Saul to be much more enjoyable than Breaking Bad

I haven't caught the first episode of the second season, but unless there was a massive jump in quality, I personally don't agree. I still liked it a fair bit, though.

>>137665964
>anything in books 7-13 better than books 1 and 3
Go away.

>>137666727
Volume 13 and SS1 is better than anything in S1.

Book 1 was a trashy volume which almost made me drop the series at the time and 2 is severely overrated. 3 is done better in railgun.

>>137666706


The mary sue part comes from things like reviving after being stabbed by Archer because Avalon, which looks like an asspull if you didn't read the VN. The VN relied on the Fate route to establish Avalon's existence. To a secondary all he sees is Shirou magically reviving from an asspull.

Not enough explaination was given for Shirou's projection either. VN readers know how it works because the VN explains it. The anime never explained much, and this confused secondaries who see it as a power that Shirou conveniently acquires.


Fate Zero actually did better with its long winded expositions, which while annoying at least made clear to the audience what was happening.

I think those who started with the VN underestimate how much harder FSN is to understand when you started with the anime. Show, don't tell is a very bad idea for a Fate anime.

>>137666727
13 was great and the books in S2 were adapted better than the books in S1. 4 and 5 were butchered. 6 and 2 were shit from the beginning and Styl fight against Touma was ruined in book 1's adaptation.

>>137666873
The thing that I think seems to be the biggest problem for you here is that I think you're looking at UBW like it should be a stand alone experience.

It never claimed to be Fate/stay night. It claimed to be Fate/stay night [Unlimited Blade Works], and while it does add a few things to connect some matters with Zero, it is very much that story and route.

There is an anime already covers the Fate route, and everything that you seem to be mentioning. It was made in 2006, and evidently, Type Moon and Ufotable found it to not be so unacceptable that it needed to be remade right away.

Starting right with UBW is like starting with season two or three of a show. Sure, you might be able to pick up a good chunk of it, but you'll miss some stuff. It is a flaw in the viewer though who complains that they don't understand everything, and refuse to look back at what came before it.

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>>137661817

>>137667018
Like, I'm pretty sure if someone watched the 2006 series, and then the UBW anime, assuming they were paying attention, they'd probably get at least 85-90% of what someone who read those routes in the VN got.

>>137666799
I said 1 and 3, not 1 to 3. 2 isn't even present in Index 1, only its bare bones.

The only reason it even got remade in Railgun is because Kamachi knows it's the best thing he ever wrote.

13 is okay but it doesn't really compare to 3, especially not after a whole season of pretty much nothing. SS1 is only "look at how much fun we could have had in this instead of what we got!"

>>137667009
> the books in S2 were adapted better than the books in S1
I actually agree, but it doesn't really change much, because the books Index II adapts are mostly bad anyways.

Volume 2 wasn't bad.

>>137667122
>The only reason it even got remade in Railgun
I'm talking about Sisters arc here, of course.

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>it's a fate and raildex thread with no touma vs shirou argument

>>137667122
>knows it's the most popular thing he ever wrote.

Fixed.

13 was setting up the world conflict and was far more intresting and despite being toned down a bit in the anime , the accel/hound dogs still came off as great in the anime.

>>137666727
End of S2 is literally where index got good.

>>137667299
No one cares about those shitty characters.

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>>137667611

Hamazura is where it's at. He is the level 0 we need.

>>137667490
>>137667611
Exactly, the end of S2 only sets up the next arc that doesn't even come after a whole 2 cours of nothing happening.

It's just a huge case of blue balls.

>>137666873
UBW, the adaptation, is supposed to be watched after Zero.

That's where the explanation of Avalon comes in.

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>>137667844

>we will never see this animated

>>137667912
No matter what way you slice it, UBW was never intended to be the first Type Moon or Fate series you watch.

But that's not really a huge fault on its part. A guy mention Breaking Bad earlier. Love the show, season four was my personal favorite part of it. Would I ever tell people to start there, though? Hell no, but that doesn't mean the story is any less good just because it can't be jumped into right away.

>>137666529
I agree, it's the adventure Magi should've been.

friendly reminder that the index manga is fast approaching where the anime ended, its on the academy city invasion arc

this is the point we've gotten to

>>137667997
I'm not caught up with NT, but did we ever find out the girl in the dress's name?

>>137668278

Nope, hasn't been seen again.

I think kamachi may be saving her like the #6 for something big because she knows way too much about aleister's plan for someone who has only appeared in two volumes

Objective rankings
Anything Railgun >>>>> Anything Shitdex
F/SN VN > F/Z > F/SN UBW

>>137668426
I disagree.

>>137668426
It must be hard to live with your condition, anon.

>>137668426

i can't wait for index 3 so all the railgunonly fags finally fuck off about index not being better

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>survives long enough for Kiritsugu to stuff an NP (that only heals when Saber exists, but luckily it still has some juice left over to be used on someone that doesn't even have a contract/connection with her :^) ) into him instead of getting turned into a battery
>said Noble Phantasm also alters his origin, the foundation of his existence/what defines his existence
>less significant, but his elemental affinity gets altered too
>this gives him the super rare ability to manifest a reality marble, a one of a kind thing that is almost on the level of True Magic
>the reality marble benefits madly from Shirou just being in the HGW since he wouldn't see weapons of such power and history pretty much anywhere else, let alone in such amounts
>said RM happens to be the weakness of the greatest Heroic Spirit and antagonist, Gilgamesh - who shits all over demigods and legendary heroes with minimal effort
Woah, this seems kinda convenient.

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>>137668973
Actually UBW got absolutely nothing on Gilgamesh. It's because he never took the fight seriously until the last half a second where Shirou was right up in his face.

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>>137668426

>>137661318

Only when the original show was shit to begin with.

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>two fanbases contained in one thread

I don't know why I find this amusing

>>137668973
Gilgamesh lost for the same reason Vegeta often loses in DBZ: He didn't take his opponent seriously until it was too late.

It's canon that Gilgamesh could have ended either Grail War in a single night if he actually put in the effort: He's that strong.

But being that strong has, perhaps rightly, made him a super-arrogant prick. Even when he realized he was being overwhelmed by Shirou in the heart of Shirou's Reality Marble, he hesitated when reaching for Ea: He was so arrogant that the thought of having to actually use a serious weapon against a mere human was blasphemy to him.

Gilgamesh can curbstomp any Heroic Spirit or Master if he so chooses, but the problem with him is not ability, it's his attitude. He doesn't take anything seriously, because he's so used to being so much more powerful than anything else around him.

Yeah,I do

Fate is pretty mediocre but Kara no Kyokai and Tsukihime are good.

So yeah,some spin offs are strictly better

>>137670565
>Any
What about Solomon?
Also
>Sakura

>>137667091
Blame redditors, MALtards and f/a/gs for telling people not to watch muh DEEN since it's ugly.
>But just start with UBW xD skip DEEN finds a way xD

DEEN might not be perfect but it definetely sets it up so that you can get all the shit that happens in UBW. Most people fall for the DEEN meme and just start with UBW so then complain "asspulls"

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>>137670425
Oh yeah, let's make it more

GT>Super
Lost Canvas>Next Dimension
Kuroneko=Kanako>Ayase>Rich Girl>Kirino
Tamers>Adventure>02 last half=Xros Wars>Savers=01 1st half
Red>Blue
Nana>Nana

>>137670599
>Kara no kyoukai & Tsukihime
>spinoffs from fate
Anon are you retarded?

>>137670686
I really don't think the 2006 anime is bad.

I mean, it's not amazing, and it's certainly not flashy, but it tells its story decently enough, and can definitely watch worse shows.

It only gets really wonky to me when they tried to add in the Caster arc with that splash of Heaven's Feel. That just didn't work, but I understand what they were going for. They assumed there wouldn't be anymore Fate anime after that, so they needed to tell as complete of a story as possible, so they gave Caster and Assassin something to do, and rounded out things with Sakura and Rin.

The only real travesty DEEN pulled was that fucking UBW movie. There's no way I can defend that, and I don't think TM or Ufotable defend it either, since UBW was the first thing they jumped to when it came to adapting FSN again.

/pol/'s talking about FSN right now.

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>Lawful Good.

>>137661318
Yes.
I dropped the main series because normalfags shittin on others fate spin-off

>Zero is epic
>Not cannon
>eww pedos

normalfags are shit

>>137661318
When the original show is galge written by a talentless hack, sure

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>>137661867
It might not be better in every sense, but damn, it`s fun.

>>137666407
>hating best route with best shirou
Stay pleb

>>137668973
>>said RM happens to be the weakness of the greatest Heroic Spirit and antagonist, Gilgamesh
How is infinite NP's vs infinite weaker NP's with a timer a weakness? Gil lost only because he didn't want to take a fight with a human seriously.

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>>137670639

Everyone acknowledges Sakura is an anomaly because she is an experiment who is part of the grail system and has strong affinity for spirits. Even the guy who experimented on her believed she was just a girl with strong blood and not the powerhouse she ended up being, which is odd considering he should of known she was strong if she survived all those experiments without breaking or turning into a vegetable. If her powers were properly utitlized insteads of her just going by instinct, she would be ridiculously powerful.

Besides, Gil was melted by the grail in Zero and only survived because he rolled a 20 on a charisma check, the next time in the 5th war both in UBW and HF, the grail gave him the middle finger with no chance to roll that charisma check again.

>>137661817
>>Fate/Zero>UBW
F/Z=F/SN=garbage you mean.

>>137670951

It didn't reall round out things with Sakura and Rin though. It added that arc, resolved things, but Sakura and Rin never talk afterwards even after all that and Shirou never asks any questions like he actually would. They show one picture of her in the bed and then what happened is forgotten as they finish they Fate route.

Kayneth did nothing wrong

>>137672942
Yeah, I'll readily admit they didn't do it particularly well, but I understand what they were aiming for in concept. Execution could have been more solid.

As it stands right now though, I don't think the parts that handle just the Fate route are done badly. They're not super fancy, and I would hardly say many of the fights came as good, but it gets all the hits from Fate's narrative in there.

>>137672942
Not him but it did at least give them some more relevance and depth. Rin is important in every route, but Sakura would've just been "that random unecessary harem girl" without that arc.

>>137672969
>Kayneth did nothing wrong
He bought too slow wheelchair.

>>137661318
UBW isn't better than Prisma, what are you talking about.

>>137673025
Bit of a shame they gave her that weird fucking S&M outfight.

I mean I guess that was a pretty "Caster" thing to do in hindsight, but it still was dumb.

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>>137661318
Yes.

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Adventures of Sinbad became better than Magi.
Fate/Zero better than FSN
Fairy Tail Zero is better than Fairy Tail.
Nanoha is better than that Triangle Heart...
Pokemon Special(Adventures) better than Pokemon

>>137673418
No.

>>137673435
No to what?

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>>137661859
Dude...

>>137673505
No.

>>137661859
dumb sakura poster

>>137673025

There is always something that reveals Sakura knows more than she lets on in each route(Sakura confronting Rin and getting Rin to admit she was stalking Sakura in Fate route, Rin stalking the Matou household in UBW - whic btw, why didn't Shirou press Rin about asking if ab adopted child was happy while shadowing Sakura's house? that was odd even in the VN), she was never just a random girl. The story is just structured so you can't know more until HF

>>137661859
So?