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Which one was deeper? EoE or The Rebellion?
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You are currently reading a thread in /a/ - Anime & Manga

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Which one was deeper? EoE or The Rebellion?
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>>137541702
my dick in your mom's pussy ayyyyy.
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Gee I wonder
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>>137541702
rebellion because it's layered.
>>
rebellion is just bad honestly
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“‘At last Anno asked me ‘Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn’t. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?’ I had been thinking he was a strange* man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought 'Disgusting.’ And then he sighed and said, 'I thought as much.’”

It is worth noting that when she describes Anno as “strange”, the translation is a bit off and can also be interpreted as “odd”, “freaky” or “creepy”.
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>>137541702
>one was about how people want to solve their problems
>the other's about a girl who became insane and confused obsession with love
I dunno, you tell me
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Rebellion's ending is so fucking lame. It's obvious that at the last minute they wanted to do something SHOCKING OOOH for a sequel set-up. I just wanted a happy ending and then for Madoka to just go away before they run it into the ground.
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Rebellion is so deep right
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Rebellion becuz he strong and doesn't afraid of anything
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What's with this meme that Madoka is deep? Just because an anime has a time travel plot with alternate timelines, doesn't make it deep. If you're confused by the timelines or find it difficult to keep up with, that's one thing, but the idea of deep is about how much you need to analyze the thing to understand the meaning behind it. There is little meaning behind Madoka, while Eva has a shit ton of deeper meaning, some of it pertaining to the hedgehogs dilemma, some to the deconstruction of mecha, and some to Anno's hate of otaku. I mean look here >>137541500 some anons are legitimately arguing the hedgehogs dilemma as it pertains to their real lives. Madoka as I have seen it is mostly rooted in entertainment. Depth doesn't mean hard to wrap your head around. By that thought, TMR was the deepest album to ever drop.
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>>137543649
muh faust references
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>>137543671
literally who
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>>137541702
> actually had a point
> meaningless style over substance bullshit
Real tough one there anon.
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>>137543797
Don't be illiterate.
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>>137543797
Anon-kun, would you Faust with me?
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>>137541702
Rebellion is just shit
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>>137541702
EoE was EVAs second chance because Anno fucked up the first time. Rebellion was just shit.
>>
While EOE is obviously deeper, I'd still argue that Rebellion is also rather deep as well, considering that it deals with the themes of reality vs fantasy, the nature of love, Plato's Allegory of the Cave, selfishness vs selflessness, etc.
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>>137541702
It's love, TARS! Love!
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>>137543931
Just because a dude drops the word TMR doesn't mean he's /mu/core, it means they like Zappa. what
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>>137543649
you need to understand that the more intelligent a film is the harder it is to explain. You can discuss many western films with ease because they're so much simpler and 2 dimensional than much of what Japan makes.

End of Evangelion is Hideaki Anno's multifaceted social commentary and deconstruction of the mecha genre, as well as a protean character study exploring the duality of man and the master/slave dialectic. Only the highly educated can realize the multiple layers of complexity, and actually be able to understand and appreciate such a highly intelligent masterpiece. Much unlike western media:

Vertigo is simpler than most slice of life anime. If this is you sceptic's idea of an intelligent film I laugh at you with pity.

Rosebud XDD is nothing compared to any of anno's stuff.

Kubric made ending of 2001 a space odyssey incoherent and it just didn't make sense without reading the book. Everything other was style over substance. Like anything from Kubrick.

I will give the west some credit though: Bresson, Tarkovsky, Godard, and Bergman have come close. But still, none of their works have managed to achieve the level of depth and perfection found in End of Evangelion.

Things on the scale of evangelion require a class to be explained, not some random bloke on the internet with limited time. If you fail to see this I don't know how to make it any simpler anymore. The japanese are truly amazing,man. I mean look at their amazing history and culture.They have the best literature in the history of the world. So why are people surprised that they made the best movie ever?
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>>137543649
Not that I think Madoka is any deeper than a puddle in the dustbowl, but in what way is the hedgehog's dilemma any better?
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Madoka is great, Rebellion is not great.
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>>137544182
aren't you agreeing with me? what are you trying to say?

>>137544197
that it is a commentary on things, not solely for entertainment. but as >>137544019 said, Madoka does have some substance to it.
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>>137544159
Faust, band, was highly inspired by the work of Frank Vincent Zappa.
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>>137544182
>they're so much simpler and 2 dimensional than much of what Japan makes
I know what you're trying to say but the concept that 3D is more 2D than 2D makes me chuckle
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Rebellion is fan fucking tastic and the only people who don't like it are Redditors who think it "ruined" Madoka's happy ending.
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>>137544182
>You can discuss many western films with ease because they're so much simpler and 2 dimensional than much of what Japan makes.
on the other hand, you cant discuss anime with ease because theres nothing to discuss.

Japan always had a hard time making art. 21st century capitalize on that. Substance is almost gone, theres only style.

You can count on your fingers substantial anime.
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>>137544355
please spoonfeed me a recommendation Anthony
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>>137544433
There is no dichotomy between style and substance.
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>>137544405
Anon has a fair point.
If we're talking about movies, then except the few ones with 3D technology, I guess it's all 2D?
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>>137543931
Anyone with dreams that strange must have some interesting taste in music, so yes.
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>>137544496
There is a limit to what we can call style and substance, and there is what we can't determine at all

>>137544437
>Manipulating existing sounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwVfXkchDKo

>classical-inspired settings with folkoric moods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NxM1iKigZM

>minimalistic rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxvQmTTz5I

>Psychedelic rock with small pinches of progressive rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Vpmbs2NHo

>The closest to Frank Zappa they could do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdZgcR6YYZ8

>Reinterpretation and insertion of themes in different context
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhDewwSoks4

>fucking experimental rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PVJ8kHsGCc

>birth of a new style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzPUoG3M9gA

>the typical faust fan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixC3_2xHHLw
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>>137543931
i would use my Faust in ways you wouldn't expect
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>>137543797
it's the original "selling your soul to the devil with a catch" story that madoka and a million other things are loosely based on
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>>137545301
Madoka explicitly referenced Faust though.
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>>137544413
>Madoka's happy ending
>Madoka is trapped in some abstract god form
>Homu is the only one that remembers any of the past worlds, everyone else forgot everything
>being Meguca is still suffering
>happy
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>>137545527
who would imagine the shy bitch is actually the selfish scrub
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>>137545527
the series ending is definitely a happy ending

madoka isn't trapped, she's fulfilling her purpose and taking the suffering of a million souls to make the world a better place

homura gets to keep the memory of her most precious friend in the world

being meguca is no longer suffering cuz you just fade away and hang out in valhalla with godoka
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>>137541702
>deep
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>>137546132
Urobuchi and Shinbo thought the ending to PMMM was cruel upon actually watching it on screen. It's not speculation.
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>>137546132
Manipulating the truth, creating parallel realities (?), shaping people's will and desire to fit your own mood isnt really happy.
Though nobody knows about what happened, Homura might be suffering but transpiring a false sense of happiness.
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one is deep, one is artsy. I love both, but there's a difference.
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>>137545301
Isn't the catch that if you win you get this shiny fiddle made of gold, but if you lose the devil gets your soul?
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They don't call Madoka the Evangelion of anime for no reason, so I think we all know that Madoka is truly deeper.
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>>137544060
that part ruined the entire movie.
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>Watching anime because it's deep
>Thinking that anime can actually be deep
>Even using the term deep in the first place
Absolutely embarrassing.
If you think that you're watching anime for anything other than girls, violence or escapism, then you're delusional.
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That thumbnail looks like robocop
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>>137547499
The whole ending
>muh unexplainable force of love

The rest was baller, though
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Well we won't know until this happens.
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>>137541702
One of them is the flawless conclusion of a fantastic show that had a somewhat inconclusive finale due to budget issues and time restraints.
The other is the pointless continuation of a good show with a satisfying conclusion and a complete story.
You tell me.
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>>137547615
This desu, entertainment is entertainment.
Pretending your gook cartoons are better on the merit of being "deep" or "philosophical" is just preposterous.
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>>137548172
Oh shit, is the senpai = desu word filter still installed? That's pretty great, desu.
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>>137548379
No, senpai is senpai, desu is desu.
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>>137548379
yeah anon, you just don't see it much anymore because it actually worked
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I think that the difference between deep and "deep" is up to the user. I thought rebellion was very deep. I thought it posed interesting questions over the biblical fall of Lucifer, an angel of very high standing as he wanted a plan of salvation that differed to that of God's will.

Homura wanted Madoka to be happy, and to do that she would need to defy and conquer Madoka and her wishes.

Is she evil for doing so? This long after release we are still discussing the morality of the series, of intentions and outcomes vs what an individual is capable of and how perspective can change the morality of an action and all sorts of things like that.

So I think it's deep because it triggered these thoughts and comparisons. If someone else watched it and just saw stupid Homu fucking everything up with girl lazers, then I would say for that individual that show was not deep.

I do not know if something can be objectively deep vs pretentious when it comes to art. I originally thought EoE was pretentious tripe, until I saw people discussing it and realized that the show just never resonated with *me,* and that it was a personal problem.
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>>137548379
I type desu instead of to be honest manually.
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>>137548732

>I thought rebellion was very deep.

When you watch so much anime you can convince yourself your delusions as reality. Take a break kid.
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>>137546487
that's The Devil Went Down To Georgia

Faust is "you get sick superpowers for like 20 years and then I'm dragging you down to hell myself"
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>>137541702
After two years /a/ and the internet at large fails to understand even something as straightforward as Rebellion, so I guess that one.
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>>137548859
"right vs wrong" and "justified vs unjustified" are two completely different things

homura did everything wrong

but she was also justified in her actions
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>>137548915
>creates a world of happiness
>if and when that world collapses Madoka will either save her and fix everything with her or kill her and fix everything
>either way the end is better than before

Explain how this is wrong.
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>>137548379
t b h = desu
s m h = baka
f a m = senpai

not sure if i'm missing any
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>>137542096
>the other's about a girl who became insane and confused obsession with love
You some sort of autist or something?
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>>137548795
>Take a break kid.

Does it annoy you that people still talk about Rebellion and Madoka in general so much? It couldn't possibly be because it was interesting and gave some food for thought for some people. No, it must be because they are just stupid, right?

But not you. You're the smart one.
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>>137548859
She did everything wrong and was completely unjustified
So what if QB thought he could crack the magic of cycles The little cunt didn't even know it was possible until homu squealed. The whole thing about QB is that they think they're top shit but aren't
Further the movie makes it perfectly clear that mado has this shit under control and is MORE than happy to watch over her people for eternity.What we do see is that homu is still an edgy loser after Mado fucked off and rationalises her obsession after talking to an imaginary mado that had none of the experiences Madokami has.That would be like claiming original homu was the real homu
From every logical point of view homura ignored the reality and sought any answer the pointed towards her being able to satiate her obsession with Mado again
Her's is a self-interest masquerading as concern for a friend. If she really cared she would have heard her side of the story. Instead she rationalised away and assumed she knew better.
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>>137541702
So she would've been happier had Shinji raped her?
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>>137549114

Terrible post but that last sentence is correct.
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>>137549139
Cool fanfiction, but what does that have to do with Rebellion?
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>>137549204
>this denial
What the fucking movie you faggot. You're waifu is shit.
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>>137541702
Thumbnail made me thing of south park from the catalog.
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>>137549233
>ignoring stated dialogue by multiple characters that contradict your inane views
>making up Homura's motivations out of thin air
>making up Madoka's motivations out of thin air
>seriously claiming Madoka in the flower garden was imaginary when those were her true feelings as stated by the staff
>seriously missing the point that Homura knew Madoka would sacrifice the things she loved and wanted her to have her cake and eat it too
>using arguments from years ago that got refuted then and acting like you're smart shit when you can't even form a coherent sentence
>ignoring everyone getting the happiness they stated to desire in Rebellion that they never had before, and that this was Homura's goal
>actually believing Homura only cares about herself when she's the only one alone in the end by her own design

This is why Madoka threads are shit. Anyone who wants to discuss anything has to deal with youtube-comment-tier nonsense like you're spouting. Go back to the shit forum from whence you came, your posting style makes it obvious you don't belong here. Everything you listed screamed you didn't understand an extremely simple movie and instead got mad at Homura for "ruining everything" when you can't even accurately describe a single thing she did, all while making up why she did it because you never understood a thing about her in the first place. Your kind clearly was not on /a/ during the initial airing, nor were you around for the initial screenings and camrip. Otherwise, you would know everything in your post is tumblr-tier fanfiction.

Also, Homura is not my waifu, I'm just not a fucking retard who lacks the ability to think.

Wow, I haven't bothered to shit on a Madotard in a while, and I doubt it will do any good overall.
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>>137549488
>happiness
>constantly trying to reconnect with her cycle self so she can save her friends from the witch
>sayaka getting slowly mind raped so homu can lust over mado in privacy without reistance
>hapiness
Kek

Also the mado in the garden might have been expressing 'her' true feelings but the fact still remains that is like saying original time line homu is homu's true feelings. People fucking change.
You're a retard. Rebellion was shit.
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>>137541702

Utena
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>>137544182
I know it's bait but this level of snobbery is amazing.
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>>137541702
Neither
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>>137550240
This.
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>>137544182
10/10
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>>137544182
>not recognizing pasta
Guys please.
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>Which one made more sense?
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>>137545184
downloading some faust album as we speak, that's pretty fucking cool
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>>137547850
>The whole ending
>>muh unexplainable force of love
Homura's original wish was to redo her meeting with Madoka and instead of being protected by Madoka, she wanted to become strong enough to protect Madoka. Assuming the power of that wish was still in effect at the time, that's how she gained the power to do what she did at the end of Rebellion.

In general I think a lot of the misconceptions and "criticisms" of the movie and series are caused by people not paying enough attention to the little details when watching. It's not some incredibly deep masterpiece, but at the same time it's easy to miss important details if you're not paying attention.
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>>137544413
>watch madoka because I hear it's deep and dark and shit
>firts seven episodes are fucking boring
>main character cries and doesn't do shit
>plot reveal and it becomes good
>last episode
>literal deus ex machina
>the end

I could have forgiven the lack of rythm and the overall boredom of the first part, but the end makes it irredeemable for me
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>>137554040
I wouldn't go as far as to call it a deus ex machina, especially considering they explicitly state why what she did was possible. Seemed like a logical outcome. If you haven't seen Rebellion, give that a shot.

But I'd say rewatch it at some point if you're ever in the mood. The first 7-8 eps (and the series/movie in general) is better the second time around. Completely different mood and atmosphere to it.
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>>137541702
yes.
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>>137554134
>I wouldn't go as far as to call it a deus ex machina, especially considering they explicitly state why what she did was possible

I fucking hope what she did was possible, otherwise it would not even have sense to it. But the simple fact an end like this was allowed is lazy. Justifying the fact that your character solves literally all of your problems by becoming god is completely dull plot wise
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>>137548859
>After two years

Make it 20 for Eva.
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>>137552253
*less
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>>137554188
Tell me what ending you would've preferred then, out of curiosity. Because I was pretty content with the ending considering a wish that powerful being possible was heavily foreshadowed.
>>
EoE is pure cinema. I would'nt even go as far as to call Rebellion a movie. It's just a shitty flick.
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>>137554570
I don't get these meme terms.
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>>137554481
An ending where the plot would be solved without resorting to becoming a literal god
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>>137554134
>character becomes a god
>god solves the situation with god powers
>somehow not a deus ex machina

I've never seen an anime applying the definition of a deus ex machina so well
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>>137554748
Like what? Normally I hate that kind of thing, but here it actually makes sense and is foreshadowed multiple episodes before it happens.

>>137554774
Is it really still deus ex machina if it was foreshadowed multiple episodes in advance instead of just being a random asspull? It was beat into your head over the course of a few episodes that because of what Homura had been doing, Madoka had pretty much no limits on what she could wish for. Taking that into consideration, what she did seems like the most logical outcome. It's not like it's some random bullshit anti-climactic ending that came way out of left field.
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>>137554855
You don't see a problem with an overpowered character who can solve the plot whenever she wants because muh potential. I mean yeah that's really creative and all. You could do this in every anime or manga. Problem ? Well just become god ! Come on dude, really ? Why don't you become all powerful just do it !
>>
Realistically speaking, what's supposed to be "deep" about either one of these shows?
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>>137554990
Ahh, alright, so it's
>a lot of the misconceptions and "criticisms" of the movie and series are caused by people not paying enough attention to the little details when watching
How about rewatching it and actually paying attention this time? There's a full conversation in the series discussing this specific thing.
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>>137555024
They're not deep, people are just too stupid to follow anything beyond SoL or shounenshit unless there's a flashback and infodump every 5 minutes.
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>>137555032
>misconceptions
>not enough attention

What's next ? 2deep4u ? But that's all right anon. I see you can't defend the ending so you prefer thinking I don't have the brain to follow one episode of madoka without sleeping. It's ok to be delusional
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This is a better pic, OP.
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>>137541702
>deep
>deep
>which one is better crap or shit
>deep
>>
>>137555106
Madoka isn't deep though. The ending is literally explicitly explained in an earlier episode. At this point I honestly can't tell if you're baiting or if you're literally too stupid to understand a cartoon, so I'm going to just stop responding.
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>>137555166
>Madoka isn't deep

Thank you anon
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>>137549196
No. Kill yourself.
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>>137543649
You're looking for depth in the wrong places. The time travel plot is probably the most straightforward thing since Groundhog Day, I don't know why did you find it confusing.

The real "depth" is in the ending, and how it resolves the time loop. Homura is bound to repeat the same shit endlessly because of her selfish desire, and Madoka uses the power and experience gained to cut it short and break everyone free from the cycle of despair. Basically, buddhism. Sayaka getting fucked over by a good wish done for selfish reasons also meshes with this interpretation.

If anything, it's Eva that tries hard to be confusing, with it's convoluted flashbacks and meaningless symbolism thrown in to troll people. (no offence or anything, I like Eva too. It's just that I find its "depth" overrated)

But as for Rebellion, I haven't a slightest idea if it's too deep for me, or if it's just eye candy with some awkwardly executed references to Nietzsche.
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This thread is a disaster.
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>>137555368
>The real "depth" is in the ending
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>>137555447
As it ought to be.
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>>137555447
That's because you haven't been here for the first "depth comparison" thread between both movies when The Rebellion was still fresh. I remember that thread reaching bump limit in just a few hours (and fuck, can't find it in the archive).
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>>137555447
>>137555601
Found it:
https://foolz.fireden.net/a/thread/104864095/
>>
Rebellion is a rich and powerful movie. I saw it with three other blokes.

One of them was visibly enraged by it, and the other two were just fucking stunned. We got into shouting matches about Homura's actions and the message of the story

When we saw Evangelion 3.3 it was a Frodofest. Our conversations were about the mechanisms of bomb collars and the lack of logic behind Misato's decision to tell Shinji NOTHING
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>>137555495
I put "depth" in quotes for a purpose, I actually think searching for depth in chinese cartoons is retarded. Just lay back and enjoy the show. Perhaps my post came out more pretentious that I intended.
>>
>>137547499
>>137547850
If you are talking about Interstellar, then just replace the word "love" with "social bonds". Everything makes sense then.

>But, anon? How did Dr. Brand know her BF's planet was the one?
The aliens were orchestrating a lot so any kind of predictable action you might take like following your love across the universe might be a means of the aliens directing the mission to the right planet. Also Dr. Brand is an irrational woman.
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>>137553236
he was talking about interstellar.
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>>137555368
>eaningless symbolism thrown in to troll people

And a lot of this symbolism is heavily praised. Like having religious icons in your anime suddenly makes things deep when most were pure aesthetic. (for the series anyway, EoE is a different story).
>>
People in this thread still believe Madoka is deep.
>>
evangaylion = forced deepness
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>>137541702
Saw thumbnail as Cyclops
Thread replies: 119
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