Which is the superior studio?
Kyoani finds a way but then keeps losing it.
Shaft always finds a way; they just don't know what the destination is.
This year, /a/, go with the studio that at least knows how to move forward.
Both have made good shows but I like Shaft better.
I like the head tilts and the pretentious art direction and the edginess. I honestly enjoy them.
And I think Shaft girls are cuter.
Doesn't matter what the reason is. Shaft doesn't do it so your point is completely irrelevant.
Plus, I find it hard to believe that any/every studio could have animation as good as kyoani if they just brought down their number of shows/year.
Oh yeah, science fiction/supernatural, and ehh, more science fiction and supernatural. Also yearly seasons of Hidamari, Bake, SZS and yearly Madoka movies. Oh and Aniplex publishing every time. Truly a studio that steps out of their comfort zone very often.
Kyo may have superior production budget but they can make a good show for the sake of it, hell most of their source material are terrible/ mediocre
any studio can make a visually good show if they have the money, but it needs a GOOD studio to make a show when budget is limited
Please go back in time and convince your parents to get that abortion they debated.
They both rule
As studios, they're both past their prime.
SHAFT is coasting on the popularity of two franchises that are guaranteed to end in the foreseeable future.
Kyoani's cash cows are dead and buried, and their seasonal attempts at capturing lightning in a bottle are getting worse and worse.
In ten years they'll both have gone the way of Gainax.
I want you to have a good day, anonymous!
Also please don't rape and suicide murder me. Or make an anime about a dead girl.
Lucky Star was another true masterpiece by Kyoto Animation. It scared off people with shit taste by starting out with what appeared to be a pointless conversation about how to eat certain foods.
True patricians realized that this wasn't merely a conversation about which end of a choco-cornet was the head, but a allegory for society in general.
Lucky Star is one of those rare masterpieces where even the most seasoned anime expert must take care to watch it multiple times to fully understand the work. You're clearly a plebeian who dropped the show after the highbrow conversation in the first episode flew astronomically far over your head.
Why are kyoani fags so stubborn, they act all superior as if kyoani has never made shit shows, in fact they only have shows ranging from mediocre to good with nothing original to be found and if someone calls them on their shit they get all defensive. kyoani fags are truly the cancer killing anime and /a/.
KnK was huge here on /a/ when it was being serialized. I never saw a single 3gatsu thread before the anounce!ment. Which is weird since Shaft is usually the one who adapts already popular sources.
Lately they're just bitter about Phantom World bombing.
But hey, for all their rivalry with PA Works, they both have a good/bad pattern. Kyoani should find their way again with Silent Voice.
Not so much the case today but Kyoani pioneered some methods, tropes, genres, archetypes that other studio still beat the dead horse with. You are ignorant of that because you are a newfag.
>Too bad most other studio has caugh up.
Name one. Only PA Works come to mind and they are nowhere near KyoAni in consistency. The rest cant even produce more than one well animated episode per season - Deadhouse and Bonned the prime example.
Sunrise and JC Staff can given budget, but they never do.
>Katanagatari isn't Shaft you idiot.
Thats the point, you idiot?
Bakemonogatari adaptation is shit, especially if you read the novels. It brings litterally nothing new in terms of visuals and direction if you watched superior Moonphase already, its shit at adapting LN material and Nishio writing, looks worse and overal less faithful in style than even Medaka Box by Deadnax.
Random new studio did a superior work with worse Nisio novel, than Shaft did with his flagman. Whats worse, now all shaft shows are "monogatari-light" reusing exact same things to attract new-fa(g)ns that at this shit.
>They've already done it multiple times.
I don't read LNs, but K-On! is the only manga or VN adaptation they've done that was great with mediocre source. And they haven't made a single great thing in years.
You made this exact same claim in another thread, and as I said there, Bones hasn't had a QUALITY-heavy show since Chaika. They are more than capable of producing a consistently well-animated series.
Shows writing is garbage (why Urobutcher has any fanbase to speak is riddle, he`s a hack), where 70% of show could be thrown out as its shit - the show itself was nice thanks to Inu Curry art though. Since then many tried to emulate this surreal look (even this season in Luck and Logic and KyoAni Phantom World alternative world episodes) and failed.
>They'll still be making Madoka threads 20 years from now.
Madoka is already dead, Hyouka becomes more refined with every year - thats difference between random FOTM garbage and real quality CLASSIC
The only SHIT shows KyoAni did was Munto, you likely did not even watch it (ironically since KyoAni attempted to fix it TRICE) - and even that was still a beutiful animation with many redeeming qualities.
Practically any other KyoAni show, is still above absolute rest of competition in terms of production consistency and love for detail, direction and authentity - even financial flops like Nichijou, Tamako Market. The one people dislike the most of recent time, KnK - still is animated better than all Shaft shows combined and has good movie.
KyoAni produces classic, that all become better with time as good wine and age well - they grow with time, in opposite to the rest that gets forgotten.
Theres not a single throwaway/filler show unlike other studio in their portfolio - every is still relevant later and every is signature of their quality work they`d be not ashamed of to show to next generations.
What Rivalry with PA Works? PA Works is viewd favorably, but its not KyoAni equal. At best its an apprentice on a right path.
This season sadly shows they still have long way to go.
It was full of relatively minor things being treated like they were the biggest deal in the world, both by the characters and by the presentation of the show. High schoolers take minor shit seriously, I get it, but if you just show us that so bluntly, my impulse is to dismiss them or maybe give them pity/sympathy, not to get seriously invested in their melodrama. Not to mention you have people refusing to believe the main characters were straight because their relationship's depiction was so just far over-the-top for how a youthful friendship would usually be treated.
KyoAni's complete failure in the writing department baffles me. Don't they hold contests or some dumb shit like that to get material? Why is everything they make so poorly written?
Also their recent love of chromatic aberration hurts my eyes.
I liked Euphonium, but it wasn't "great". KyoAni really has been dropping the ball in past years though, what with Tamako Market, Kyoukai no Kanata, and Phantom World. It's been 4 years at best since their last "great" show (if you count Hyouka. I'd say 5 years, but I'm aware that disliking Hyouka is apparently abnormal).
Not that Shaft's doing much better. They've just been milking Monogatari for that time and it's getting kinda old. I fully expect years of trash similar to what KyoAni's been doing recently after Monogatari finishes. Shaft's got it worse though, KyoAni's pretty colors seem to do wonders in distracting people from how terrible they've been recently.
>, Bones hasn't had a QUALITY-heavy show since Chaika
Akagami. I love the show and i love the manga and overall find the adaptation acceptable, but bones litterally in first season wasted budget for 1st OAV like episode in nice quality, leaving the rest poorer and at times with QUALITY. 2nd season is similar, where they concentrate budget on select episodes (like the kidnap ark now) leaving rest poor. And to that there are complains of them simplifying and not able to adapt manga designs/costums in apropriate quality too. Imagining how this show would look in KyoAni hands makes one sad.
Noragami had the same issues though some fancy combat animation.
BBB was high profile show and overall ok, though run out of steam near end to pick up at finale (delayed forever)
Show By Rock had not much QUALITY, but not much quality either, not even mentioning poor cgi.
Cant say about ConRevo since dropped it after few eps.
Bones can do great things, but aside from their highest profile/budget shows (Dandy, BBB) most actually suffer from inconsistent quality (and even Dandy did at some points).
Tbh, at this point i`d even preffer A-1 and big aniplex budget, than Bones.
>All KyoAni shows are masterpieces because they look pretty
Ok but for those of us with IQs that aren't in the double digits we require something more substantial than just pretty colors.
I'm not saying I'm actively refusing to get invested, I just don't get invested. I don't really feel the tension or drama in something like kids complaining about their teachers unless you make a serious effort to sell it to me as something more than just kids complaining, and here it didn't feel like anything greater than that.
Nobody talks shit about Hyouka anymore because it put everyone to sleep and they all promptly forgot it existed. I think you have to have a certain level of familiarity with a show to even know where to begin shitting on it, and that can't happen when the first few episodes are like visual ambien. That's probably why every Hyouka thread turns into an obnoxious circlejerk. Granted, I don't think Hyouka is that bad, but it does have all this shit that really annoys me so I can't say I care much for it either.
What has SHAFT been doing recently? I kind of fell off the Monogatari wagon. The last random SHAFT show I remember was Koufuku Graffiti, which was so weird I kind of liked it.
Aniplex can try to milk it, but no matter the sequels - it`ll never be the new PreCure. Already movies shown the interest to franchize is dead and it was one shot wonder - fanbase can circlejerk over the characters while more, but expanding this setting is futile. Restarting it in different setting would not bring it same popularity, since it`s never will be surprise it once was again.
Is there even any studios around that still have the guts to do loli service, or did the KyoAni standard get everywhere?
Because sure as hell SHAFT isn't doing it anymore either.
I know SL did some nice OVAs, but the third Illya series itself was quite bad fanservice wise.
Reread that post and try to find the spot where he says they've been doing terribly or haven't made any good shows. I bet you can't, because it's not there.
Do you count Tsukihi or Doll as lolis?
What would the show have had to do to make you invested? The reason for complaining is well explained. The complaining doesn't even happen until well over halfway through the show. Before that it's mostly just slice of life moments and Kumiko mulling over her place with the band and music in general. Do you just find mundane problems uninteresting in general?
They actually dont. They spread the animation evenly and consistently, while not using more budget than others (and often having that animable unable to rival actual great sakuga from other shows).
>but they can't write for shit
Now this is a lie, since while their source material of some shows is weak - their "writing" i.e. in this case direction and attention to details, nuanced touches, body language i.e. ability to transmit words and characters to emotion and empathy is superb and above all others. They are masters of taking trivial thing and "writing" it to be an emotional experience. So if anything, but KyoAni scriptwriting is superb and of little contest in industry. The stories they pick though indeed are matter of taste and not always best ones, but they do with what they have.
Didn't Kofuku Graffiti have the little girl and a bunch of bathing scenes? Granted, it wasn't hardcore loliservice with bandaided crotches, but that was the nature of the show.
There was one bath scene, full of steam though.
And biggest disappointment is, the steam stayed for BDs.
Any thinking man would have been fed up with SHAFT after watching 3 its shows max, seeing it being insult to his intellect and constant rehash of same techniques. And any intellegent man would be offended by SHAFTs horrible adaptation of Nishio`s writing and diminishing great novels to Pornogatari with BLACK SCREENs.
> Do you just find mundane problems uninteresting in general?
Not always, but if they're presented so seriously and straightforwardly (not as excuses to display something else, but as drama in their own right), then yes, that's a hard sell for me. I think the easiest way to make them work, though I'm not saying it's the only one, is to have the characters treat them seriously but not to give the scenes such dramatic presentation. You sort of acknowledge that it's trivial but invite the audience to listen to the characters' trivial concerns, instead of selling it as something really important.
> The complaining doesn't even happen until well over halfway through the show. Before that it's mostly just slice of life moments and Kumiko mulling over her place with the band and music in general
Oh, I'm not saying the complaining ruined the whole show, I just grabbed it as the first example that came to mind of the drama not working for me.
The show is about a teenage girl and her teenage friends. Shouldn't the show present the issues as they would appear to the main characters? Do you just want it to show the events of the show how you would see them?
Not that guy, but I think mundane problems should be treated mundanely. Most slice-of-life anime handle it like that, where life's little everyday problems are given focus and used to develop characters or relationships, but treated with a little levity. Melodrama with silly little problems is irritating. It's like watching self-abosrbed teenage girls who think the world is ending because of something stupid. I can't help but look down on it.
I do think Euphonium was good, but I just don't think it was all that amazing. It's another anime with a highschool setting, with problems we've seen how many times before? It's nothing special, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Amaburi was also good.
To be fair, I did say KyoAni was doing poorly recently. Hibike and Amaburi aren't bad, but recently KyoAni's upside seems to be simply good (which isn't a bad thing, being consistently good but not great would be fine) but their downside is pretty awful.
That about sums up my thoughts on Hyouka. I remember disliking the two main characters and thinking the mysteries were incredibly boring. It would be hard to actually discuss what made it bad without rewatching it, and that's not worth the effort.
In the same timeframe, Shaft's been pretty average outside of Monogatari (which sells well, but I feel like it's not as good as the earlier seasons). They've made Mekakucity Actors, Nisekoi, and Sasami-san in that time (besides Koufuku Graffiti and Monogatari). I thought the first was average, and Nisekoi is pretty bad. I completely forgot Sasami-san existed until I looked up what shaft shows I've watched recently.
Nichijou was paid by Kadokawa so KyoAni hardly is at loss with it. Tamako while originally not too popular, actually gains traction with time being all ages show people buy to their kids, as well Movie raising its value a lot.
Hyouka is best TV anime of all times.
KnK actually sold ok and movie finale was good too.
Hibike was success by all means, especially considering the music, merch sales and Yamaha deal.
Phantom world promotes the LNs and they released 2 new PW LNs at same time to gain from it.
There is not a single flop that would affect them financionally, and Free! was a nice cash cow.
The fact is their bussiness model works and they are doing better than ever, expanding new office and doing multiple high profile projects at once.
> Shouldn't the show present the issues as they would appear to the main characters
No, that should not be a rule. That's a really limiting idea. A show's presentation does not have to mimic the characters' perception. If I made a show about an eight-year-old marketed towards adults, I would not treat having the TV turned off as a serious violation of human rights, at least not without my tongue in my cheek.
After ChuuS2 I stopped watching Kyoani shows
Has their anime been that bad? Or are the expectations just high?
>hating on nichijou
I'm sorry your /a/ membership is revoked, please return your membership card and keychain within 3 days
Both have their good and bad points, both are better than most other studios.
Shaft has better girls, KyoAni has more likable MCs.
Shaft has better aesthetic designs where as KyoAni has much better animation.
KyoAni is better quality but Shaft has more interesting stories and characters.
Overall I enjoy both and don't think either is more superior to the other.
The solo situation isn't an everyday little problem though. It's three years of work and expectation amounting to nothing over a rule change. That's discouraging stuff, no matter how old you are, and the possibility of nepotism made the whole thing even worse.
You're right, it shouldn't be a rule. But Hibike isn't nearly that far of a stretch.
That's probably because Chitanda is about as interesting as cardstock and Oreki is a self-absorbed douche for half of the show who comes across like an sperg's fantasy. Then he gets put in his place and the show mostly drops the pretense of having mysteries, which is when it actually gets good because it's just beautifully drawn highschool slice of life. There's even an episode where they acknowledge how silly it is, in a way.
Although personally, I wasn't expecting anything out of Chitanda and Oreki didn't bother me because I could see how his arc was going to happen from the get-go. The real problem was the gay best friend and the bitch. They're completely horrible characters, I can't buy that they have any kind of genuine friendship with the Debbie Downer, and their melodrama episode made me want to stop watching.
>Shaft has better aesthetic designs
>posting flat unpassing badly digitalized redraws of world architecture photos
no, fuck off. Its insult to all studios that actually care about unique and original designs
I honestly can't imagine how a human being could possess this opinion. Mayaka and Satoshi are the best part of the entire show. Also their relationships with Oreki are outright explained, so I don't see how you're confused by that.
Also the Valentine's episode is the best episode of the entire show.
Doesn't bother me, I'd be honored if something I created was used in an anime.
But Shaft has much more variety, KyoAni is full of sameface and none of their locations stand out. Also not all Shaft is Monogatari/Madoka.
>But Shaft has much more variety
How hypocrite has one to be to state something like that? Shaft rehashes itself since Moonphase times. It has exactly ZERO variety.
>KyoAni is full of sameface
Confirmed for troll
>none of their locations stand out
KyoAni provides HIGHLY detailed realistic backgrounds, great cinemagographic scapes and fitting the scene settings. Shaft inserts random PPTs
>eating the same sterile shit over and over in every show and thinking its "artistic"
You're comparing two different things, KyoAni looks nice there's no denying it but essentially its just the same places we see in anime all the time done better where as Shaft like to use different location styles.
How is saying Sameface is trolling? Ever since Haruhi there has been very little variation between their character designs outside of Nichijou, the only situation I can think of with Shaft was with Madoka.
I think you just want to hate Shaft because you feel you have to, why can't people enjoy bother?
>You're comparing two different things, KyoAni looks nice there's no denying it but essentially its just the same places we see in anime all the time done better where as Shaft like to use different location styles.
Shaft does all the same setting, exactly - but does not even bother making proper background, care about scene composition, lightning, atmosphere but just drag and drop random clip arts. Shaft "style" was first seen in Moonphase and its basically imitation of Japanese paper theatre - thus initially it was intended as a "stage" imitation with decorations. Since then Shinbo just realized autists like you swallow this shit and thinks its shaft signature, and continues doing same thing over and over without any purpose or artistic value. In fact, Shaft dumbed down it art because of retards that consume it - since initially it was allowing himself much reacher style (see Shinbo`s soul taker or last attempt at changing style back at Vampire bund.. failed). There is nothing great about how SHAFT creates scenes and backgrounds, in fact - while it can be still justified in Monogatari, it weigths down other shows like Mekaku, Nisekoi, Koufuku: ITS ALL THE SAME SHIT. You are just blind and retarded thus allow it to continue.
>How is saying Sameface is trolling?
Because it is. KyoAni not just known for creating unique outstanding designs, it creates memorizable designs for ALL charcters including up to 40 background characters in every anime. Considering different character designers create cast for different shows, the criticism is only evidence than you did not fucking watch any KyoAni shows. (let alone even Haruhi you mention had huge design difference between S1 and S2 and Disappearance).
>I think you just want to hate Shaft because you feel you have to, why can't people enjoy bother?
No, because its worst kind of commercial shit.
It once was a small overworked studio that werent able to finish anything at time, not able to do proper animation, no resources for anything - so they resorted to cutting corners and designing their shows "artisticly" so that all the downsides of them unable to do it properly, would look as if intended, thus creating their "style".
However that time is gone. Most of people involved left, and even "shaft" style itself is not unique anymore and can be found even more authentically by other studios - Silverlink, Deen even.
Shaft`s last attempt to risk was Vampire Bund, failed horribly and since then its just commercial company doing same shit over and over and over with exact same method.
And in fact, most of their shows STILL are shit - they hold by milking Monogatari and surprise Madoka success, but they dont even have the original Monogatari staff nowadays and just do Monogatari-lite emulating visual style failing direction.
Fags like you ENABLE them to continue with this shit rather than raise the quality. People tell KyoAni refuses to leave its comfort zone, for shaft its 100x time more true.
What bait? Everything KyoAni has done has been School Slice of Lifes. With the exception of Munto, and maybe FMP of course. And I guess Air doesn't really have anything to do with school. Y'know what? Just fuck you. I'm not wrong.
Comparatively, Shaft is all over the place.
I like SHAFT, but they've been lacking in diversity for years, should have spaced out the Monogatari adaptations. Some good has come out of it, Itamura has vastly improved as a director.
Kyoani is my pick though.
Shaft is seiyuu school, Kyoani is animators, directors and the such school.
Since gatari shaft is shit, they just repeat the plastic looking lifeless gatari style on every show.
One thing that Shaft definitely does better is staying loyal to the original work. The artstyles always look very close to manga and the few author's who've been on radio (Aoki Ume, Kobayashi Jin, Nakamura Hikaru) have said that Shinbo listened to literally everything they said and he asked for loads of ideas for anime original things.
I personally think they should end the Madoka franchise and Monogatari and move on to something new, but you can't deny that they aren't getting serious about continuing the megucaverse somehow. I don't see any plans to do that Hyouka, let alone Haruhi.
(Will Kyoani break the current grimdark trend in meguca girls with an upbeat mahou shoujo, like TTGL did for mecha after Evangelion?)
>Will Kyoani break the current grimdark trend in meguca girls with an upbeat mahou shoujo
They seem to have an interest in it, at least.
One makes mainstream anime, the other one makes otakubait.
They really double dip on that Chika x Shinbo OTP.
>love all kyoani anime
>/a/ tells me "shaft is gud!!11"
>first scene is slow-mo panty shot
dropped that shit like it's hot, i know which studio makes otaku bait
Hint : it's not KyoAni
Latest show of KyoAni's the girl grabs her titties to cast magic spells
>not otaku bait
They literally only did a good job on NNB and Ilya, everything else looks like shit.
Overman King Gainer, Mazinkaiser, Shin Getter Robo, Godannar, Dual Parallel Trouble Adventures, Kotetsushin Jeeg, to name a few.
There really hasn't been any notable upbeat super robot mecha shows post ttgl anyway, maybe besides Shin Mazinger. Gundam and military mecha still dominate the genre.
I'm not defending phantom world, i know it's otaku bait as much as anyone.
But you can't deny that KyoAni has had some great shows, even as recent as hibikek.
You also cannot deny that any -gatari season is otaku bait, as "deep" as it seems to be.
Kyoani for me, The only thing I don't like about SHAFT is most of the time they dedicate themselves to the Monogtari series which is understandable but they have creative people in there to do other great things.
But when the series is so popular and sells well why wouldn't they keep doing it.
Lenth read the novels and not excited at all about Shaft shit adaptation.
>March Comes in Like a Lion
Love the manga. Too bad Shaft gets it, will be inevitable ruined.
>Koe no Katachi
KyoAni seems fitting for it but,
no Okada. Failure.
low key enjoyment, gief Violet Evergarden
Thats newfag logic that as cancerous as SHAFT post-gatari fags themselves.
Shaft was gained popularity with Hidamari and SZS. Bake and Madoka just created waves of newfags jumping on the train.
Trus however that most SHAFT shows are shit, but you`ll still find aside from bake Arakawa shaft fans, Soredomo fags,few Moonphase fags and even ones Puni Pony Dash was fun.
Hell, i am what fanboys call is shaft "hater", and i enjoyed Salami-san
Salami was good shit. Fuck the haters.
They both put out decent shows and otaku bait. Just like almost any other studio.
>Too bad most other studio has caugh up.
Tell me a show with visual quality on par with Hyouka, Nichijou, KnK, and Hibike. And I don't mean some show that put all of their budget into episode 1 and the rest looks like shit. I mean a show that looks that good throughout the whole show.
>Other than that all shit.
You forgot their best work, Hidamari Sketch.
BONES' age will be coming
Tatami galaxy visually outshines every KyoAni work in every way and doesn't come off as overproduced as any of their shows
This. They both figured their fans would watch anything with their names on them, lost a ton of money, and have stuck to comfort zones ever since.
Kyoani thought Haruhifags would be perfectly fine with eight weeks of KYON-KUN DENWA and took a bath. They made up for it with K-On 2, but then lost again with a /v/-tier lolsorandumb "comedy" (which, unfortunately, was the last time they tried to do something artistically different). Ever since they've stuck to lushly painted animated sleep aids with the same two character designs.
Shaft thought fans of their normal lolquirkiness would be perfectly fine with a show with no discernible direction whatsoever, and lost big on Salami-san. Then they pissed off half of one of their biggest fanbases with Rebellion, sold out with Generic Harem Romcom with a Tsundere Obvious Winner No. 802701, and lost still more money and credibility (not to mention pissed off the Kageroufags) with Mexico City Actors. Since then they've been sticking to pleasing the Monogatarifags and Nisekoifags, baiting the Madokafags, and playing it safe with a comparatively humdrum food anime.
We'll see if Silent Voice and March Comes In bring some of their credibility back.
And direction, and visual storytelling etc.
The only argument you can use is that Masaaki Yuasa is running circles around most directors in the anime industry and not just KyoAni's.
Its good. Yuasa is a very talented director, but visually it isn't as mind blowing as Kyoani's top tier stuff.
Hyouka is arguably the best looking show ever made. Its visual storytelling is one of the cornerstones of the show itself.
Its nothing but mindblowing. Something as simple as an apple falling to the floor in Tamako Love Story was mindblowing. Kumiko's dash in frustration in Hibike was mindblowing.
>Once in a blue moon Tier
I would call this whole list half a decade outdated if you hadn't included new studios on it. Madhouse in god tier? Hell, even KyoAni in god tier after their last few years? Gainax great (no, Pleiadesfags, one good show does not make them great again)? Brain's base great?
I guess there are people who think that being overly melodramatic is good visual storytelling.
Exactly what I was thinking
Making everything overly animated with so much melodrama shows no understanding of animation psychology. If you just overproduce for every shot like KyoAni then the important momenta will never feel special.
I agree except for the "overanimation" shit. There's nothing wrong with using good quality animation throughout, the issue is overusing their digital effects and dramatic shots.
No, because at least that guy was trying to construct a genuine argument even if he wasn't doing it very well. This post is just a ball of meaningless buzzwords. There's a part of me that suspects that it's bait.