Zeon is just pure evil. The Federation would need to build baby-rape machines that do nothing but rape babies for the sake of murder-raping babies to ever become as evil as Zeon. And I wouldn't even be surprised if Zeon already did that and had bigger and better baby-rape machines than the Federation would even dream about.
Fuck man, didn't the fucking Zeons even kill more spacenoid civilians than the Federation ever killed Zeonists?
In Thunderbolt, the dude piloting the Gundam is even from another space colony that got destroyed by Zeon.
They gassed entire civilizations to death, plunged their own people to death, destroyed an entire continent and they have a harsh conscription for their own people and they engage in human trafficking.
As evil as the Feddies can be at times, they are like saints compared to any wing of Zeon. Zeon has set itself up for eradication. There is no future unless Zeon is gone
If you think Zeon were the good guys and you also know they're meant to represent Imperial Japan, then you're missing that Tomino was saying his country was in the wrong in WW2.
Yes, there were good people in the lower levels of power in Zeon. Just like there was in Imperial Japan, just like there was in Nazi Germany. It doesn't change that the people in charge were insane and subjugated tons of people under the flag of it being for their own good.
>>137274823 Because if you watch the original several series and not material made years later by people who grew up on it the principality of zeon is very clearly depicted as being led by power hungry assholes with its own share of terrible people while the EF is often depicted as being led by corrupt assholes.
Its a story about the soldiers with each side having its own legitimate reasons for originally going to war, not side X vs side Y.
And thunderbolt isn't really pro zeon, its pro soldier. The EF mc had a fucked up life And after the battle in the shoal zone his girlfriend dies and is just being used by his organization who wants him out of the way while the Zeon mc Has his only remaining limb forcibly removed under captains orders and is only continuing to fight in the war becsuse he needs the money and Ghiren was desperate for pilots to the point he's hiring handicapped people.
>>137276137 >while the EF is often depicted as being led by corrupt assholes.
Was it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but in MSG a lot of the Federation wasn't corrupt, just very shitty at fighting a protracted war. I mean General Revil was as high up in the military as you get and he was a good guy.
>>137275011 The original republic of zeon did. The zeon we see in 0079 is the principality of Zeon, which is the republic hijacked by and reformed under the Zabi family who began pushing the idea of spacenoid superiority and the superiority of the principality in particular while waving the flag of independence as motivation for the war.
>>137276207 Its in zeta and zz, which is why I said "often" instead of always in regard to the original several series. In 0079 they are practically saints outside of the traitor and the couple of soldiers in Amuro's hometown.
>>137276207 Federation had some pretty fucked up people in charge Isan Ryer is a good example. He attacked a ship filled with wounded soldiers knowing it wasn't a threat and filled with wounded and he was using his forces as walking nukes to blow up the Zeon base.
>>137276207 >>137276334 In Tomino UC, Zeon's goals are presented as bad (they're meant to be an analogy for the Empire of Japan even more than Nazi Germany), even if the individuals Zeek soldiers aren't. The Federation's (Tomino's take on cowardly Japanese leadership in the 1960s) corruption isn't really that the civilian leaders are greedy or power hungry like Zeon's leaders, just that they consistently sell their own people out to save their own skin. They pretty much do this in every series. Even 0079 has the backstory where the Federation was considering surrendering until Revil came back and told them to grow some balls.
Then the Japanese began rewriting Zeon as the good guys and the Federation began being depicted as outright evil, killing civilians left and right against the poor, helpless Zeons who dindo nuffin.
>>137276467 I have no idea who that guy is, and he could have attacked a ship full with unaffiliated civilians and personally raped them and then executed everyone on board and then broadcast his deed on all channels while feasting on a dead child, and he would barely be as evil as Zeon.
That's just how cruel and monstrous Zeon has been shown.
>>137276552 Ah I see. If it's the original series then yeah Zeon was made out to be the ultimate evil and I don't remember the Federation really getting much attention in it's leadership. I think there were a few instances of White Base being asked to do near impossible things with little or no support, but that's not really corruption or being assholes since they could just have nothing to spare.
The federation never left. Side 3 was under a trade embargo for declaring independence (because you have to be pretty retarded to think you can divorce yourself from the system and then still benefit from it when you have no goods to offer in exchange). Those colonies didn't want to get involved for purely economic reasons.
>>137274823 >Its pretty obvious that the Federation are evil and corrupt. The Federation are literally the unironic good guys. All of the worst acts of the Federation are events where they allowed Spacenoids to have their way. If they actually did oppress Spacenoids as much as spacenoids act like they do, then Operation Stardust/Neo Zeon/Dublin/Axis/Cosmo Babylonia would not have happened because, for some reason, whenever the Federation gets too lenient, spacenoids start killing people.
>>137278841 >Because Reccoa never liked Char Nah, Reccoa wanted to be seen as a woman and not just another soldier because she's been an intel agent since she was 13. Char being Char just led her to get her to do her fucking job and so that he can play soldier boy.
Which is weird because usually women talk about wanting to be notice for things not relating to their vagina.
>>137281785 Funny thing is that Gundam's retarded characters are probably a more realistic depiction of teenage behavior than the standard "15-year-old-boy-acting-like-and-being-treated-as-an-adult" stuff we usually get.
>>137281954 When you were in your early/mid teens, would you have murdered and innocent woman in cold blood over an accident she was not responsible for? Would you have betrayed and old friend and put him in a situation in which he would likely die, because you were jealous?
>>137277607 Gihren Assassination Plan definitely was some awesome shit. And my favourite part wasn't even all the convoluted politicking, but the renegade cripple division completely outmaneuvering the numerically superior loyalists with their cunning battle plan. Gotta hand it to Arc Performance. If only Gundam could have more of that instead of all the super prototype/newtype bullshit all the fucking time.
>>137282365 >Would you have betrayed and old friend and put him in a situation in which he would likely die, because you were jealous?
Is this supposed to be Char? Char's a colossal asshole, I definitely know people who have the "He made me mad, I'm going to slash up his tires on his car" type mentality. I don't really think "jealous" really describes it.
Char doesn't see people as friends or enemies. He stripped himself of empathy early on because he felt it was deadweight to him. Obviously, the only exception was Lalah and it was because she could completely understand him through psychic link. Char is a completely self centered, goal oriented person. When he found himself without any goals at the end of the Neo Zeon war, he became lost. Being at peace with himself and the world was as good as purgatory to him.
Hell, it was one of the last things Amuro accused him of in life - that he turned a little girl into a tool for the sake of satisfying his goals, goals he held just to give his own life meaning in a galaxy that was ready to leave men like him behind.
>>137282819 The problem is that Char's goals sound noble on the surface, but it's all just a facade for his selfish behavior. He talks a big game about spacenoids and peace, but in practice he's responsible for millions of deaths. When Amuro calls him out shortly before his death, Char doesn't attempt to justify why he did by saying the ends justified his means. He doesn't cackle like a madman and claim he did it out of hate like SEED's Char clone did. Instead Char has the gall to claim that he was the victim in all of this. All of these bad things happened because Amuro killed Lalah, Char isn't responsible for any of this!
That's the part of Char that strikes me as rather realistic. We all know at least one who never takes responsibility for this shit he causes, and then acts like it was everyone else's fault. The world may have wronged Char, but Char did more than his share to make the world a worse place and he doesn't give a damn.
>>137283193 >We all know at least one who never takes responsibility for this shit he causes, and then acts like it was everyone else's fault. So, Char is the prototypical SJW? Tomino tried to warn us over 30 years ago, but we didn't listen.
He used his victimization to excuse his behavior. His behavior largely led him to a life without hard consequences. That became addictive. He enjoyed acting the part of the ace pilot, the resistance spy, the freedom fighter, the father figure, the rebel leader. He lies because he lives a lie, and he lives a lie because lies make him feel comfortable. Thats essentially the core of the character, what makes him 'realistic'.
>>137283193 >>137283346 It's really a pity that most Char clones never really seem to get what made Char work. They either focus on the part of him that was a charismatic rogue or the part of him that was a egoistic dickbag without understanding that what made Char such a good character was how the different aspects of him played off each other.
Char clones are most effective when they step out of the clone stereotype and become their own characters. Zechs evolved into Milliardo Peacecraft who for all intents and purposes succeeded in his master plan. Harry Ord was characterized first and foremost with loyalty. Rau Le Creuset was revealed to be a complete anarchist madman. F91 had Darth Vader, and V Gundam had a poser with a brother complex.
>>137283709 >Chan Yes,that makes sense.You know,everybody speaks about Hathaway's Flash and stuff but I always wondered what happened after the movie. Did anybody find out?What would his dad say about it?How did he even live with himself?
Gato may have done a lot of wrong, but he's one of the best villains in Gundam, maybe even the best. He's strong willed, able to take control of a situation, loyal, brave, a skilled pilot, and manages to die on his own terms.
There's no denying that what he did throughout the series was wrong, but to be fair, the Feddies weren't exactly 100% pure either.
He wasn't a believer, though. He had personal loyalty to one man and only continued to serve him because being a soldier is all he knows. He didn't care about what his actions would do to the human race because he never thought about those things.
>>137282489 I never thought the politics were convoluted, since the whole point of Gihren's Assassination was how overly paranoid the Zabi family had become with their infighting.
Johnny Ridden for example funnily enough highlights how even as corrupt as the Federation was, there were still competent people in it like Gopp and Oxner, but even they don't have full proof plans, merely their own projected estimations on how to solve the big problem.
Operation Niflheim was rather clever, possibly the the only instance of a series in Gundam franchise to ever utilize the weather to such a scale. Henry was practically Kongming.
>>137290108 They are Feddies, though. Despite their name sounding as though they were some anti-Feddie terror organization, they're actually just the "good guy" faction within the Feddies opposing the "bad guy" faction of Jamitov and his Titans. Did people not realize this just because they namend themselves AEUG? Bright never stopped being a Feddie and this made all the wacky kids he took under his wing de facto Feddies too.
>>137287122 Yeah displacing 70% of humanity's population onto a dying planet because you think it will cure their butthurt using a hilarious forgotten video game super weapon sure is a great plan that I can totally take seriously.
You'd almost think Ezelcant came up with this idea.
>>137292444 Can't recall any of this being mentioned in GAK where the politics revolve just around a game of who's backstabbing who. Johnny Ridden being penned by the same authors should have no bearing on judging GAK's writing.
>>137291299 They have the technology to super grow plants in space, a place where without technology wouldn't even be possible to live in to begin with. You really think a 'dying planet' is harder to work around then fucking having to build a giant ass cylinder made of pure metal then artificially creating an ecosystem around it?
Not that faggot but Mao was an asshole because he basically took his communist army into the mountains while the actual Chinese army actively fought the Japanese alongside the British and the Americans. Then Mao took his army back into China and bumrushed the Chinese defense forces while they were exhausted and regrouping.
>>137274823 I think the overall thrust of the series traditionally is that the only heroes are well... the heroes.
The establishment, military, civic, and otherwise is something that is variously corrupt and oppressive and hurtful to humanity.
Only greater understanding and principled behavior by people better than the governments they serve or exist under can advance human understanding and welfare.
Anyone who blindly obeys either side is not helping anyone, they are merely perpetuating the destructive and pointless conflicts endemic to the Earth Sphere and the bad old ways weighing down humanity.
As far as 0083 writing goes, she was conveniently turned into a plot device which would set the stage for the next four wars in the UC for the most laziest bullshit raison de'tre ever devised in the UC setting. You could argue she was a victim of bad writing.
It was shitty when she allowed the colony drop to happen. It was really shitty when she shot a close friend. It was super shitty when she appeared some time later to pick up said disgraced former close friend from prison with a fucking smile on her face. It was mega shitty when the Titans came into power and started killing everybody. It was zeta shitty when a young boy was forced to go on a long journey against the rule of the Titans only to end up a lobotomized retard at the end of his journey. It was double zeta shitty when Purus started dying in droves and getting captured to be put into sex slavery. It was nu shitty when Amuro was killed in action by a fucking asteroid base while trying to save the Earth from complete destruction because some bitch a decade ago decided she loved dick more than the human race.
Zeon killed millions upon millions of colonists (even their own citizens) and destroyed several colonies that they were supposedly trying to liberate. And then to top it all off, they dropped a colony on the earth that they're trying to preserve and save greatly fucking up it's ecosystem. Not only once, but 3 times, and attempted the same shit a 4th time in CCA.
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