EMIYA SHIROU PLEASES EVERYONE TO HIS OWN DETRIMENT AND SHOULD DROWN IN HIS IDEALS AND DIE
Kerry was a protag without plot armor, Shirou has layers upon layers.
If Kerry was placed in Shirou's position he'd get killed by lancer in the very very beginning and that'd be it. Most of Shirou's accomplishments are asspulls because it's a VN so you need to have some semblance of play correctly = reward with positive story influence.
Plot armor is a fucking subjective buzzword.
You wanna know the biggest plot armor? Kerry was guaranteed to survive Fate/Zero because we know he did from FSN.
I mean the argument you're making doesn't even connect all together. You're relating to the choice system in FSN allowing for Shirou to have "ass-pulls", but you bring up the Lancer kill, which happens without any player input.
Yeah, Shirou could have died there, and Luke Skywalker could have been home when those Stormtroopers killed his aunt and uncle. But then we wouldn't have a story now, would we?
I find shirou a very inspiring character. So I decided Ill live like him. First things first, I have a gf. And since I respect such ideals, Ill let her sleep around as much as she wants to since she complains about me now being adequate enough in bed for her.
Wish me luck!
Fuck you. That's a figure of speech, you can't just translate everything literally and be autistic about what's a "correct" translation. Holy fuck I'm so mad, drown in your ideals is literally the perfect translation for this. It conveys the meaning with a familiar and completely exchangeable figure of speech. It's concise, not awkward, retains 100% of the meaning. Fuck you and your retarded shitty bait.
I was just saying that Kerry isn't the underdog. The underdog as a trope is a trope coated in plot armor that propels the protagonist through situations where they should be completely destroyed.
Underdog is really a shit trope. People who spend all their lives training and planning are BTFO by 12 yr olds picking up a magic sword, or some ginger cumming inside a british girl's pussy. It's such an cheap and easy way to fulfill dramatic and thematic requirements for a good story that most authors end up resorting to it.
Except the 5th War wasn't really a war consisting of people training and planning things out barring just a few cases. It was a scrambled together thing that spawned from the fucked up mess that was the 4th. It happened only 10 years after that, and mostly involved the still teenaged heirs of the families of the last war.
I find it hilarious though that you seem to take issue with a plot concept that's existed in countless works of fiction throughout the ages. Saying "underdogs" are shit is basically denouncing countless narratives. You're essentially saying the hero's journey is stupid.
>he doesn't believe the literal oldest and most prevalent trope in story telling is a good match
Fate is a battle royal. No person should be born under the underdog star.
So you don't know what the word ignorant means? I said I don't like the trope and that's all I said.
Because it is a trope, why would you deny that? Do you need to look up the word trope too?
>Fate is a battle royal
No, the original was a character driven story about what it means to be a hero. There are spin offs that mostly boil down to being a battle royal, but the original was never solely about that, the proceeding routes after Fate move further and further away from it as a concept.
>So you don't know what the word ignorant means? I said I don't like the trope and that's all I said.
You saying you find "underdogs" shit is like me saying I don't like villains. It's vague as hell and comes down to you denouncing countless characters and stories. It is ignorant.
>You saying you find "underdogs" shit is like me saying I don't like villains
No it's not. Go to google if you need to know what constitutes and underdog protagonist.
>No, the original was a character driven story about what it means to be a hero
The conflict of Fate; the grail war, is a battle royale. I wasn't saying anything about the thematic elements of the mains story. Battle royale is a setting not a theme. Battle royale + underdog hero is annoying. Feels totally luck based.
The point I'm making is that being an underdog is so encompassing and can apply to so many characters and situations that saying they're inherently shit is just ridiculous.
>The conflict of Fate; the grail war, is a battle royale
The grail war is the back drop, but the driving conflict is what's going on in Shirou's head. That's why FSN focuses on a first person narrative, unlike a lot of the other spin offs.
It's Shirou's story, and Shirou's struggle, not just a free for all battle for some cup.
And ultimately, Shirou's struggle is peripheral to winning the grail.
The Battle Royale is something that's intentionally made to gradually unfold into something more complex than just a basic conflict in Fate/stay night. Claiming that it's the focus and what they should be concentrating their efforts towards is just retarded, especially when there's a fuckton of other Fate work that boil down to that very simple principle.