Is there any non-immortal non-bullshit anime swordsman that

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And by immortal bullshit i mean ichigo or pretty much any bleach character.

>>137149692
Madara

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Even without being buffed up as a servant she probably could. Sasaki Kojiro probably could too.

>>137149842
which one?
>>137149851
The only way to maybe beat him is having a unbreakable sword.

>>137149851
There are too many variables in this. Is excaliber a normal sword or still magic? Is avalon in effect?

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>>137149692
Easy.

>>137149895
>>137149951
Saber doesn't have Avalon for most of Fate, so we count that out. Excalibur is most definitely a divine construct, it wouldn't break.

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>>137149692
A sword is just a sharper swallow.

Can shichika beat guts?

>>137149980
I think it depends on the sword. If he could grab it or something he would win if not he wouldn't. Although I think Shichika is a better swordsman Saber would have far too many advantages.

>>137150130
It would be a fucking amazing fight at the very least. I wonder what technique could even be used to break something like Dragonslayer.

>>137150206
You forget that pretty much the whole of Saber's life has been leading troops and waging war on saxons. Even without the advantages she is definitely an extremely skilled swordsman.

>>137150206
i dont think that shichika would lose even if he couldnt break her sword.
He spent the entire anime beating people without breaking swords.

>>137150206
>>137150296
Also she was trained to be a knight from the moment she could stand.

>>137150376
No, she wasn't. She didn't even need to be a knight until the moment she got Caliburn, she trained with Kay as a kid just because she felt like i t.

>>137150296
I'm not knocking on saber. She's definitely extremely skilled but Shichika is a perfected sword and trained to do so since birth. Ultimately it comes down to if excalibur is a better sword than Shichika.

Depends where we draw the bullshit line, I mean Shichika is already pretty bullshit by himself.

>>137149996
But there was already a guy in Katanagatari who can cut faster than light. And he lost.

>>137149692
>immortal
>beating shichika

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>>137149692
Can a sword beat another sword?

>>137150627
Could Shirou trace Shichika?

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>>137150627
Better use Archer since he's basically Shirou with his skills perfected.

>>137149692
In a way you could say he in himself is a bullshit anime swordsman and you can't beat bullshit without bullshit.

>>137150722
Shirou can't trace shit thats alive, so even though Shichika is a sword, Shichika is also a person and thus cannot be traced.

>>137150627
I was just thinking this. But, no. Shichika would dominate Shirou so long as he couldn't do bullshit like UBW.

>>137150722
>trace shichika
>unlimited shichika works

>>137150790
>But what if he can?

>>137150722
He has to know how it's constructed and since Shirou doesn't know what sex is no.

>>137150826
The VNs disagree...

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>>137150627
But Shirou is a sheath

>>137150815
He would win, but the OP said no bullshit. And UBW is definitely bullshit when used against a relatively normal human like Shichika.

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>>137149692

>>137150967
>relatively normal human
>he can cut things with his arms and legs like a sword
You realize this is beyond bullshit right?

>>137150967
UBW is not. It's just a part of the sword. It's his ideal and his heart.

>>137151068
Best onee-chan ever.

>>137151071
In terms of martial arts anime not really. But still Shichika wouldn't have a chance in UBW.

>>137151082
Sure, but he can still fling infinite swords at people.

>>137151068
Touché.
>>137150752
shichika is not overpowered.

>>137151192
> still fling infinite swords at people.
That's just his way of using the sword. There was a woman in Katanagatari with 100 swords.

inuyasha is not really bullshit and could win.
Ryuuko matoi would be a great fight too.


What about afro samurai and kenshin?

>>137151192
>In terms of martial arts anime not really
And Ichigo isn't bullshit in terms of fighting shounen, but OP still said he was bullshit.

Himura Kenshin
Or Hiko Seijuro.

Even if you dodge the teeth, the claws will rip you to shreds.

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>>137149692
Him.

>>137151319
Only because his sword has so many non typical sword abilities. So much different shit flies out of that thing if might as well be magic wand.

>>137151384
>>137151408
Himura mind.

>>137151408
Him as in him post hitokiri or during?
Would still lose either way.
Even a bunch of ninjas managed to almost kill him.

>>137151294
Yeah, but she could only use up to two at once. And 100 is nothing compared to infinity.

>>137151344
When you compare him to Naruto and One Piece sure. But if you compare him to Rurouni Kenshin he's way overpowered. That said you have a point that Shichika is pretty bullshit.

>>137151475
A bunch of ninjas could probably almost kill if not kill Shichika too. They are ninjas. Its what they do.

>>137151516
>And 100 is nothing compared to infinity.
But if you take that into account. Then Shirou's UBW is mana consuming and time limited.

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>>137149692
I have never seen Katanagatari, but I think Guts can give him a great fight. Also EMIYA would give him a good fight too.

>>137150627
He got his powers because of Avalon+ Survivor's guilt autism+ love of swords right?

>>137151614
Fine, how about a novice swordman who could give Kenshin his first scar, just because his will to live was strong?

>>137151344
Shichika would die pretty fast agains a machinegun, emonzaemon never landed any lethal shots, thats is what i meant with non-bullshit.

krillin could beat shichika, hes not that strong.

>>137151858
What do you mean by "powers"? Avalon was implanted by Kiritsugu, but otherwise completely unrelated. Being able to project swords is a result of his origin. The love of swords is a consequence rather than a cause, and the hero complex combined with that origin is what creates UBW.

>>137151222

> Shichika is not overpowered

Defeating the weilders of, and then destroying twelve ancient magically imbued weapons ((reminder that an entire army wasn't able to even procure any of these weapons)) in a row and then leveling an entire castle while having several bullet wounds ((and surviving)) should be considered overpowered.

>>137152065
I don't remember any mage being broken enough to literally copy noble phantasm like nothing. What's his source of power?

>>137151192
>But still Shichika wouldn't have a chance in UBW
But Shichika is almost a perfect counter for swords (all of his martial arts are meant to deal with samurai/swords). He has a good chance in my view.

>>137149692
Kind of unfair considering his bullshit level is very high

>>137151614

> A bunch of ninja's could probably almost kill if not kill Shichika too.

Remember when he stormed the castle at the end and Hitei said no amount of guards would be able to stop him?

>>137152284
But to be fair. Enzaemon was a ninja too.

>>137151475
Him at any point. Kenshin's sword allows him to stand at the edge of life and death and only through his desire to live is able to cut down any opponent.

>>137152250
>>137149692
I just watched a clip where this Shichika character cuts a building in half with his bare hands. Thats bullshit so saying no bullshit is bullshit.

>>137152222
He doesn't perfectly copy them? All of his swords are cheap knock-offs, and all very expensive. Shirou gets spent on mana after like 6 KnBs (which are C rank). Archer, boosted as a Servant with B mana, can do a bunch more, but he still can't do stuff like spamming Broken Phantasms. Even opening UBW is impossible for regular Shirou, and he needs to use Rin's huge mana reserves.

>>137152225
If a gun can beat him then swords being used as bullets isn't going to be much different.

>>137152321
Didn't defeat him either.

I'm not even sure if you could call him "near death" at that time, he just seemed kind of tired, still had enough energy to absolutely demolish that castle too.

>>137151791
Still I don't think there's much he can do.

>>137152225
Elaborate.

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>>137149692
This guy right here.

>>137152450
Even if what he makes is a knockoff he is copying noble phantasm no mage can do that. Even outside of noble phantasms he is still making stuff which no mage can do either.

>>137152378
But even Kenshin's Amakakeru Ryuu no Hirameki, isn't as fast as that light speed swordman in Katanagatari.

>>137152545

Seems like Shichika would win by virtue of speed in that fight, he was even able to implode yoroi in what was basically two hits without any trouble.

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Gay priest could beat Shitchika

>>137152475
But if Shirou can dodge Gilgamesh sword rain and parry Archer's swords then Shichika can do it right?

>>137152520
>Elaborate.
What on? I already elaborate my point.

>>137152475

But guns can't beat him

>>137152585
It's not the speed that's dangerous its the fact that the opponent is stripped of all movement and can't avoid the blow.

>>137149692
Shichika is already very close to bullshit, so it's hard to have something between bullshit and him.

>>137152520
>Still I don't think there's much he can do.
You mean Shichika or Shirou? Because assuming we are talking about Shirou when he fights Gilgamesh, then Shirou can only use UBW once and afterwards, he is useless.

>>137152799

> Very close

He is bullshit, just a decent kind of bullshit.

>>137152704
Shichika has experience in fighting swordsmen but swords being shot at him, he has no experience at. It also depends if it's moon cell or not.

>>137152769
Im pretty sure they can, emonzaemon just didnt hit him well enough.
shichika cant do anything agains a uzi or maybe a automatic shotgun.

>>137152802
But I don't think Shichika could survive like 5 minutes of infinite swords flying at him.

>>137149851
Servants are way weaker than heroic spirits thought

>>137152927
But Shirou's hurling infinite sword isn't really right. Because if he could then he would have done so in his fight with Gilgamesh.

>>137152984
Depends. A servant is simply a vessel, a stronger vessel would yield better results. A Grand Servant vessel for an already powerful heroic spirit like Saber would just mean she'd be able to curbstomp millions of Shichikas at the same time.

>>137150627
Shirou a shit

>>137152984
Yes, and heroic spirit =/= how they were in life. He meant if Saber fought while alive.

>>137152860
Shirou had no experience when he fought with Gilgamesh either. He was just a high school student. But he still managed to dodge them like a ninja.

>>137153025
Well yeah I was exaggerating but still like multiples of 10 flying at him nonstop for however long. I doubt Shichika would have a chance against that.

>>137153271
Shirou had trained with Saber and gained Archer's fighting experience when he fought with him.

>>137149692
He himself is pretty damn bullshit, so it's rather pointless.

>>137151845
i think guts would legit saddle him after having his sword broken and start crushing his skull in.

>>137153271
Not true he was buffed by rin's magic and had archers experience and sabers training.

>>137153337
But Shichika also trained with his father.
Shirou didn't train to dodge flying swords with Saber.

>>137153350
>Guts able to catch Shichika
>Guts stronger than Shichka
If Shichka could break guts' sword how could Guts overpower Shichika?

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>>137153378
Eeeeh I don't know man, trying to dodge Saber is basically the same as trying to dodge a hundred flying swords.

>>137152655
He dodged some but he had to parry most of them. How will he parry and counter those that Shirou countered.

>>137153368
Shichika when he lost Togame is also more buffed than normal Shichika, and he could break magical swords/sword with special property with his barehands.

>>137153350
>dragonslayer
>breakable
Choose one.

>>137153551
He could do that normally to he just wasn't allowed to. Honestly most of the deviant blades are pretty shit.

>>137152631
Guts would probably get a hand on Shichika then beat him to death with his fists. Speed wouldn't matter if he got grabbed.

>>137153527
With his hands. Like in Katanagatari. And before you say that he can't because Shirou swords are magical. Reminder that all of the swords were made by a master blacksmith with foresight and has magical/special properties.

>>137153490
Shichika can't break Guts' sword and Guts is so strong he can wield a sword that probably weights like 2 tons so unless Shichika is that strong then Guts would overpower Shichika.

>>137153551

> Is also more buffed than normal Shichika

More motivated would be a better term, I think. When he breaks Hari and Kanna it's made pretty clear that he had the capacity to break all of the swords given enough time to think about how they work, he just couldn't because of Togame's rules, once she was dead he acknowledged that he didn't need to follow them any more.

Even when he fought Kanna for the first time, he couldn't break it straight out because he wasn't used to actual sword fighting, and said he would definitely break it the second time, before Togame interrupted and said he couldn't.

>>137153645
>I haven't watched katanagatari
Shichika is a sword. Shichika could cut off his hand if he grabbed him. That's the worst thing he could possibly try.

>>137153490
dude, guts is fast.

he had to have dodge shit flying at 1130 sos.

>>137153593
didnt schicka brake an unbreakable sword or what bro?

just cus he is big does not equate him being slow.

>>137153695
He broke a sword that's essentially the same as dragonslayer in the last episode though.

Hiko Seijurou

>>137153645

> Speed doesn't matter if he got grabbed

But speed is the reason he wouldn't GET grabbed. Guts is insanely strong, yes, but certainly not as fast as to be able to keep up with Shichikas movement, In the anime he was fast enough at points to look like he was goddamn teleporting.

>>137153645
>>137153695
Shichika is way stronger than guts.
>>137153741
Its not motivation, he was already incredibly strong even when he couldnt let himself get hit.

>>137153827
but nigga guts is kinda fast too.

>>137153695

He broke Kanazuchi, which made a crater when you dropped it and could only be properly wielded by a girl who basically had super strength.

>>137153858

Sure, but not likely as fast as someone with a body like Shichika's.

>>137153838
I never said he wasn't that strong, just that before/after Togame's death he didn't get some kind of crazy power boost, he had just let go of the rules that were binding him and let loose, it was still the same amount of strength, just a difference in mindset.

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>>137153499
>trying to dodge Saber is basically the same as trying to dodge a hundred flying swords.
But Saber sucked at sword dodging herself.

>>137153951
dude guts has to fight shit that likely attacks him at the speed of sound.

boss of lost children ark was not exactly slow dude.

>Non-immortal
Didn't he kill one of the shogunate retainers who was technically immortal? I mean, he could have just been boasting, but I'm not sure

>>137154120

Just judging by body types and how they moved in the series I'd imagine Shichika would be faster or at least have more maneuverability in terms of fighting style.

>>137154107
That was Ea vs Excalibur, not GoB. She did suck in episode 24 of Fate/Zero though.

>>137154120
Shichika fought and killed someone who can cut at the speed of light. That was episode 2, dude.

>>137154206
Yeah, doesn't mean that it's the same immortality as Alucard or Type Earth or anything.

>>137154206

The guy with Bita? He was technically immortal due to the blade constantly regenerating him, but Shichika was apparently able to kill him so many times in such a short time-frame that Bita couldn't handle the power strain and broke.

>>137150826
He will just make a half-dragon Shichika.

>>137154206
He just broke the sword.

>>137149692
Well pretty much no one that uses a sword could beat him

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>>137149692
Might be cheating, but oh well.

>>137154609

> Non immortal

Plus Vash isn't even a human.

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This motherfucker.

>>137154639
He wins just by having guns and being good with them.

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It isn't easy to gauge Satsuki's actual strength, but I assume that it'd be a good match.

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This guy. Relatively normal fucker who can keep up with overpowered monstrosities by virtue of skill alone.

>>137154887
Her sword is useless if it's not Life Fiber though.

>>137154701

> one of his guns is a magical laser cannon

Yeah, I'd call bullshit anon.

>>137155099
I think Enzaemon use unlimited bullet, magical guns as well anon.

>>137149692
>Is there any non-bullshit character that can beat my bullshit character?

>>137155159

They still functioned as regular bullets though, not a giant goddamn laser cannon.

>>137155048
Not really, it's still a very sharp sword. Ryuko's probably a better matchup though, Kisaragi mode is stronger than Satsuki, she has regen, and the Scissor Blades seem to be harder and have more abilities overall.

>>137155643
It's just a sharp sword then...
ok.

>>137152984
Depends on the Heroic Spirits. Some Heroic Spirits are given abilities based on their myths when summoned as servants even if they didn't actually have those powers (all the writer/musician Casters) and other times they're because the Servant vessel either can't handle their full power or the class restrictions prevents them from having all the abilities and NPs they had in life.

>>137151997
>Shichika would die pretty fast agains a machinegun
I doubt anyone less skilled than Emonzaemon would actually be able to land a hit on Shichika with a gun, seeing as Shichika is still fast enough to seem like a vague blur to normal people and would just move out of the way faster than the barrel would follow him.

>>137155643

Shichika would likely be able to break the sword, but I'm not sure about killing Ryuko, even if he figured out the whole "you need to cut from both sides at the exact same time" thing in order to stop her regeneration, I'm not sure if just using his hands would be strong enough to properly break life fibers/accurate enough to get the timing right.

>>137152209
None of the wielders at the end of the story were anywhere near as strong as the previous ones, though. The swords are great, yes, but the reason entire armies couldn't procure them was because their wielders were exceptionally strong themselves.

>>137149692
>Bahasa Palus start playing
How fucked is his opponent?

>>137152209
not when his little sister is literally so powerful that she can't even handle herself and only lost to a cheap trick.

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She probably counts as bullshit, but still.

>>137154120
speed of sound < speed of light, guts has nothing on him when it comes to speed

>>137154206
not immortal, but with some 3 digit amount of 1ups, shichika just killed him that many times over and over again.

>>137156582
The swordsman who could slash at 'lightspeed' was clearly talking horseshit, Shichika couldn't even properly doge Enmonzaemon's bullets.

>>137156310

Still think the fact that their crazy strong ancient magical weapons would be enough to call him overpowered, even if they were in the hands of people who weren't masters of that weapon.

And even then, I'd say the wielders of Kanna((didn't see much of him, but he seems like he would've fought as the other maniwani did))/Tsurugi((the girl said she had mastered Tsurugi, and Shichika didn't care because it was Mesai's resolve that he couldn't handle, not the sword style))/ Yoroi ((same as Kanna, didn't see much but he seemed to know what he was doing as much as the other bandit guy did))/ Mekki ((the user is basically being mind controlled so I imagine the fight always be similar)) and Ju ((Emonzaemon is probably the best of the fighters there)) we're similar enough to the original wielders ability for it to still be pretty overpowered for Shichika to beat then in such quick succession.

>>137156371
>only lost to a cheap trick.
Not even that, she had to let Shichika land the last blow because she realized that if not, then Shichika would never be able to kill her.
The novels actually clear up things by stating that Nanami didn't eat or sleep for a month before meeting Shichika to make herself as weak as possible and got as many skills as she could to further increase the burden on her body.

The whole reason she challenged Shichika was because she wanted to be an instrument for his growth and wanted him to surpass her, but Togame's meddling prevented that.

To elaborate, Nanami's grandfather also had the same eyes and her father developed a technique for the sake of beating those eyes. It's the reason why he was convinced he could kill her in the first place even though she was already much stronger than him by then. However, since Shichika killed him, he never learned this technique (as well as about half of all the Kyotoryuu techniques). Because of this, even as an Awakened Deviant Blade, Shichika would never be able to gain his pure potential. Nanami hoped that by becoming his enemy she would be able to drive him into a corner and make him reinvent the techniques he was not taught.

>>137156371

Really though, Nanami is so much more overpowered it doesn't really affect Shichika's level.

Doesn't mean Shichika is less bullshit, just that Nanami is more.

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A different Nishio swordman could do it.

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>>137149692
Here you go OP

>>137149692
Katanagarbage fans cancerous as usual.

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This guy

The whole lightspeed sword in episode 2 is obviously hyperbole. Shichika wasn't able to completely dodge Enzaemon's bullets later in the series, and the sheer magnitude of difference between the two means that there's no way the slashes were actually lightspeed, otherwise Shichika wouldn't have had a problem dodging every single bullet. He's probably supersonic, maybe close to hypersonic, at most.

>>137156669
wtf, nigga, shichika only got shot when he wanted to be shot.

>>137157174
Yeah, no. If he could actually dodge them he wouldn't have taken the hits in the first place. If he just felt like getting shot to death by Enmonzaemon he wouldn't have flipped around leaving afterimages in the first place, he'd have just attacked head on, taken all the bullets and killed him up front.

>>137157033
Or it just means the shit isn't completely consistent.

>>137156811
>non-bullshit
I know OP's retarded and Shichika's pretty bullshit, but this is a different level.

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If you want an actual no-superpower-bullshits discussion, at least you can start with him.

lol what qualifies as "non-bullshit"

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>>137157401
Nienami's pretty tame compared to other Nishio swordsman, really. Shichika and Katanagatari in general is pretty low tier in Nishio powerlevels.
Here's a more broken one for you.

>>137157558

She'd be able to kill him without even using a sword, I imagine she can just outlast almost every other non-immortal combatant.

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>>137157541
Whatever suits the OP, apparently. Since Shichika being lightspeed is absolute bollocks.
Posting Shana because fuck rules that get broken in the first post.
>Freeezes time
>Feeds Shichika's existence to Alastor
Nothing personal, kid.

>>137157639
The point being that she could kill him with nothing but her sword(s). Shichika and Katanagatari just isn't that powerful as swordsmen go.

Yeah, Saitama's superpowers aren't bullshit too, he undergone relatively normal physical training.

>>137152075
Don't bring mai waifu into this

>>137157830

Within a frame of not being a magical being ((just barely)) Shichika is pretty amazing.

Certainly he'd get beaten out by a lot of magic weapons users/magic people, but fighting another human being with a sword, he's likely to win or at least be a strong contender.

>>137157513
Luo Lang was the better fighter tho, he lead the entire duel and only died after literally lunging into his sword

he took no direct hit during the entire fight while nanashi got his a few times and actually a blade thrown into his arm

he's good for realistic circumstances but in anime power levels he's really low

>>137158098
He's pretty impressive in that sense, but there are plenty that surpass him in that area.
Really though, it's just a question of how much bullshit you can get away with just by saying 'they're just really skilled with swords'. It's the one-punch man problem, as that other guy said.
I'd also so say there are characters that surpass Shichika in that respect, like >>137154685 and >>137154945. Characters who are just 'normal' guys who can cut the moon in half by mistake or can keep up with galaxy-destroying magicians and demons because they're really 'talented'.