Is there any non-immortal non-bullshit anime swordsman that could beat shichika?
And by immortal bullshit i mean ichigo or pretty much any bleach character.
Even without being buffed up as a servant she probably could. Sasaki Kojiro probably could too.
A sword is just a sharper swallow.
I think it depends on the sword. If he could grab it or something he would win if not he wouldn't. Although I think Shichika is a better swordsman Saber would have far too many advantages.
You forget that pretty much the whole of Saber's life has been leading troops and waging war on saxons. Even without the advantages she is definitely an extremely skilled swordsman.
I'm not knocking on saber. She's definitely extremely skilled but Shichika is a perfected sword and trained to do so since birth. Ultimately it comes down to if excalibur is a better sword than Shichika.
Better use Archer since he's basically Shirou with his skills perfected.
Yeah, but she could only use up to two at once. And 100 is nothing compared to infinity.
When you compare him to Naruto and One Piece sure. But if you compare him to Rurouni Kenshin he's way overpowered. That said you have a point that Shichika is pretty bullshit.
I have never seen Katanagatari, but I think Guts can give him a great fight. Also EMIYA would give him a good fight too.
Shichika would die pretty fast agains a machinegun, emonzaemon never landed any lethal shots, thats is what i meant with non-bullshit.
krillin could beat shichika, hes not that strong.
What do you mean by "powers"? Avalon was implanted by Kiritsugu, but otherwise completely unrelated. Being able to project swords is a result of his origin. The love of swords is a consequence rather than a cause, and the hero complex combined with that origin is what creates UBW.
> Shichika is not overpowered
Defeating the weilders of, and then destroying twelve ancient magically imbued weapons ((reminder that an entire army wasn't able to even procure any of these weapons)) in a row and then leveling an entire castle while having several bullet wounds ((and surviving)) should be considered overpowered.
>But still Shichika wouldn't have a chance in UBW
But Shichika is almost a perfect counter for swords (all of his martial arts are meant to deal with samurai/swords). He has a good chance in my view.
> A bunch of ninja's could probably almost kill if not kill Shichika too.
Remember when he stormed the castle at the end and Hitei said no amount of guards would be able to stop him?
He doesn't perfectly copy them? All of his swords are cheap knock-offs, and all very expensive. Shirou gets spent on mana after like 6 KnBs (which are C rank). Archer, boosted as a Servant with B mana, can do a bunch more, but he still can't do stuff like spamming Broken Phantasms. Even opening UBW is impossible for regular Shirou, and he needs to use Rin's huge mana reserves.
Didn't defeat him either.
I'm not even sure if you could call him "near death" at that time, he just seemed kind of tired, still had enough energy to absolutely demolish that castle too.
>Still I don't think there's much he can do.
You mean Shichika or Shirou? Because assuming we are talking about Shirou when he fights Gilgamesh, then Shirou can only use UBW once and afterwards, he is useless.
Depends. A servant is simply a vessel, a stronger vessel would yield better results. A Grand Servant vessel for an already powerful heroic spirit like Saber would just mean she'd be able to curbstomp millions of Shichikas at the same time.
Eeeeh I don't know man, trying to dodge Saber is basically the same as trying to dodge a hundred flying swords.
With his hands. Like in Katanagatari. And before you say that he can't because Shirou swords are magical. Reminder that all of the swords were made by a master blacksmith with foresight and has magical/special properties.
Shichika can't break Guts' sword and Guts is so strong he can wield a sword that probably weights like 2 tons so unless Shichika is that strong then Guts would overpower Shichika.
> Is also more buffed than normal Shichika
More motivated would be a better term, I think. When he breaks Hari and Kanna it's made pretty clear that he had the capacity to break all of the swords given enough time to think about how they work, he just couldn't because of Togame's rules, once she was dead he acknowledged that he didn't need to follow them any more.
Even when he fought Kanna for the first time, he couldn't break it straight out because he wasn't used to actual sword fighting, and said he would definitely break it the second time, before Togame interrupted and said he couldn't.
dude, guts is fast.
he had to have dodge shit flying at 1130 sos.
didnt schicka brake an unbreakable sword or what bro?
just cus he is big does not equate him being slow.
> Speed doesn't matter if he got grabbed
But speed is the reason he wouldn't GET grabbed. Guts is insanely strong, yes, but certainly not as fast as to be able to keep up with Shichikas movement, In the anime he was fast enough at points to look like he was goddamn teleporting.
Sure, but not likely as fast as someone with a body like Shichika's.
I never said he wasn't that strong, just that before/after Togame's death he didn't get some kind of crazy power boost, he had just let go of the rules that were binding him and let loose, it was still the same amount of strength, just a difference in mindset.
>trying to dodge Saber is basically the same as trying to dodge a hundred flying swords.
But Saber sucked at sword dodging herself.
The guy with Bita? He was technically immortal due to the blade constantly regenerating him, but Shichika was apparently able to kill him so many times in such a short time-frame that Bita couldn't handle the power strain and broke.
Might be cheating, but oh well.
It isn't easy to gauge Satsuki's actual strength, but I assume that it'd be a good match.
This guy. Relatively normal fucker who can keep up with overpowered monstrosities by virtue of skill alone.
Not really, it's still a very sharp sword. Ryuko's probably a better matchup though, Kisaragi mode is stronger than Satsuki, she has regen, and the Scissor Blades seem to be harder and have more abilities overall.
Depends on the Heroic Spirits. Some Heroic Spirits are given abilities based on their myths when summoned as servants even if they didn't actually have those powers (all the writer/musician Casters) and other times they're because the Servant vessel either can't handle their full power or the class restrictions prevents them from having all the abilities and NPs they had in life.
>Shichika would die pretty fast agains a machinegun
I doubt anyone less skilled than Emonzaemon would actually be able to land a hit on Shichika with a gun, seeing as Shichika is still fast enough to seem like a vague blur to normal people and would just move out of the way faster than the barrel would follow him.
Shichika would likely be able to break the sword, but I'm not sure about killing Ryuko, even if he figured out the whole "you need to cut from both sides at the exact same time" thing in order to stop her regeneration, I'm not sure if just using his hands would be strong enough to properly break life fibers/accurate enough to get the timing right.
None of the wielders at the end of the story were anywhere near as strong as the previous ones, though. The swords are great, yes, but the reason entire armies couldn't procure them was because their wielders were exceptionally strong themselves.
She probably counts as bullshit, but still.
speed of sound < speed of light, guts has nothing on him when it comes to speed
not immortal, but with some 3 digit amount of 1ups, shichika just killed him that many times over and over again.
Still think the fact that their crazy strong ancient magical weapons would be enough to call him overpowered, even if they were in the hands of people who weren't masters of that weapon.
And even then, I'd say the wielders of Kanna((didn't see much of him, but he seems like he would've fought as the other maniwani did))/Tsurugi((the girl said she had mastered Tsurugi, and Shichika didn't care because it was Mesai's resolve that he couldn't handle, not the sword style))/ Yoroi ((same as Kanna, didn't see much but he seemed to know what he was doing as much as the other bandit guy did))/ Mekki ((the user is basically being mind controlled so I imagine the fight always be similar)) and Ju ((Emonzaemon is probably the best of the fighters there)) we're similar enough to the original wielders ability for it to still be pretty overpowered for Shichika to beat then in such quick succession.
>only lost to a cheap trick.
Not even that, she had to let Shichika land the last blow because she realized that if not, then Shichika would never be able to kill her.
The novels actually clear up things by stating that Nanami didn't eat or sleep for a month before meeting Shichika to make herself as weak as possible and got as many skills as she could to further increase the burden on her body.
The whole reason she challenged Shichika was because she wanted to be an instrument for his growth and wanted him to surpass her, but Togame's meddling prevented that.
To elaborate, Nanami's grandfather also had the same eyes and her father developed a technique for the sake of beating those eyes. It's the reason why he was convinced he could kill her in the first place even though she was already much stronger than him by then. However, since Shichika killed him, he never learned this technique (as well as about half of all the Kyotoryuu techniques). Because of this, even as an Awakened Deviant Blade, Shichika would never be able to gain his pure potential. Nanami hoped that by becoming his enemy she would be able to drive him into a corner and make him reinvent the techniques he was not taught.
A different Nishio swordman could do it.
The whole lightspeed sword in episode 2 is obviously hyperbole. Shichika wasn't able to completely dodge Enzaemon's bullets later in the series, and the sheer magnitude of difference between the two means that there's no way the slashes were actually lightspeed, otherwise Shichika wouldn't have had a problem dodging every single bullet. He's probably supersonic, maybe close to hypersonic, at most.
Yeah, no. If he could actually dodge them he wouldn't have taken the hits in the first place. If he just felt like getting shot to death by Enmonzaemon he wouldn't have flipped around leaving afterimages in the first place, he'd have just attacked head on, taken all the bullets and killed him up front.
If you want an actual no-superpower-bullshits discussion, at least you can start with him.
Nienami's pretty tame compared to other Nishio swordsman, really. Shichika and Katanagatari in general is pretty low tier in Nishio powerlevels.
Here's a more broken one for you.
Whatever suits the OP, apparently. Since Shichika being lightspeed is absolute bollocks.
Posting Shana because fuck rules that get broken in the first post.
>Feeds Shichika's existence to Alastor
Nothing personal, kid.
Within a frame of not being a magical being ((just barely)) Shichika is pretty amazing.
Certainly he'd get beaten out by a lot of magic weapons users/magic people, but fighting another human being with a sword, he's likely to win or at least be a strong contender.
Luo Lang was the better fighter tho, he lead the entire duel and only died after literally lunging into his sword
he took no direct hit during the entire fight while nanashi got his a few times and actually a blade thrown into his arm
he's good for realistic circumstances but in anime power levels he's really low
He's pretty impressive in that sense, but there are plenty that surpass him in that area.
Really though, it's just a question of how much bullshit you can get away with just by saying 'they're just really skilled with swords'. It's the one-punch man problem, as that other guy said.
I'd also so say there are characters that surpass Shichika in that respect, like >>137154685 and >>137154945. Characters who are just 'normal' guys who can cut the moon in half by mistake or can keep up with galaxy-destroying magicians and demons because they're really 'talented'.