Lelouch might be dead or alive, but for now he's just a Schrodinger's Cat that nobody has observed yet.
One of these threads huh.
Have not got to post this in a while.
>The funniest thing about the end of Code Geass, is that within two days of the finale, there was a magazine interview with the director and head writer
Wrong, they were at least two separate and very different interviews. There is no interview about the final episode involving both creators.
> "Lelouch is dead. Good end or bad end."
Inaccurate. The real title of only one of these interviews was as folows: "Lelouch dead!? Was it a good one or a bad one!?".
Notice the exclamation and question marks. It's not a descriptive statement, but an expression of doubt, shock and/or disbelief.
>And had Taniguchi and Okouchi discussing the ending
There is no such interview where both of them discuss the ending.
Taniguchi's interview has him briefly talking about whether it's a happy or sad end, but he doesn't mention anything else about it. Nor does he bring up Lelouch's fate. The rest of the interview deals with various production topics, characters and so on.
More importantly, it also says, in a caption, that Taniguchi will not discuss what the epilogue meant, because he thinks the viewers can think for themselves.
The director is also not against ambiguity in general. In fact, this can be seen in his earlier works, such as the ending of s-CRY-ed with the raised first.
Okouchi does say, in response to a different question that isn't even talking about Lelouch's fate, that his being "shot (killed)" is a logical end, but here's the thing: Lelouch physically died. That is not under dispute.
The question is whether or not he could have survived even beyond death by having the Code activate upon his passing, and nothing in those interviews denies this.
It's obvious to me. You don't accidentally draw Charles' Code so damn obviously on his hand right when he grabs Lelouch's neck for no reason.
This is also a series full of lies where Lelouch is only figuratively considered "dead" at other points.
1. He's supposed to be "dead" by living a boring, normal student life and tells C.C. as much.
2. He's "dead" by allegedly having died during the original invasion of Japan.
3. Charles considered him "dead" when Lelouch complained about what happened to Nunnally and his mom.
4. Zero was believed to be "dead" between seasons.
Thus the idea that Emperor Lelouch can be only symbolically "dead" is merely an extension of this.
I disagree. I think it goes against his character and works to undo his development throughout the show to have him survive the Zero Requiem and become immortal.
Lelouch was someone who was afraid of being "dead." He hated being useless and dependent (as Charles pointed out) and wanted to achieve things on his own because that's how he feels "alive" (he flat-out says this a few times). His entire campaign against Britannia was, in part, an extension of this will to live.
The fact that Lelouch gave his life in the end shows how far he'd come since the beginning of the show. At first, he wanted to prove he was "alive" by getting his revenge against Charles, but he learns to let go of that selfish, petty desire when he gives up everything he cared about for the Zero Requiem (i.e. Kallen, Nunnally, his life).
This mirrors Suzaku's development as well. Just as Lelouch hated being "dead" Suzaku hated being alive. But in the end, he's changed to the point that he willingly gives up his right to die for the greater good, just as Lelouch gave up his right to life.
To have Lelouch cheat the system and become immortal is, to me, nothing more than fans of the series desperate for a happier ending.
So, will there be a new Code Geass project announced this year in celebration of the show's 10 year anniversary?
Will it suck like Akito (barring webm related)?
Lelouch is, quite frankly, a rascal or rogue at heart. I don't think his development is meant to have him completely accept a flawed society's moral standards when he was always had his own.
He did sacrifice his life though, just perhaps as a simulacrum and also a a way to abandon his identity and acquaintances forever, including his sister, as the price to pay.
All in all, Lelouch is, in fact, a cheater. I think that's part of his characterization and of the show.
Lelouch defended the use of lies against Charles and his Ragnarok nonsense.
Ergo, I don't think it's weird to have him lie to the world in more than one sense, both by pretending to be super evil and, perhaps not as part of his plan intentionally speaking, surviving due to a curse he received from Charles.
Shirley and Milly shouldn't have been two separate characters. Shirley was just too bland and ditzy. Didn't care about her death because she had no character or development or anything. Milly at least had personality and had her own arc, as small as it was. She also had more of a personal connection to Lelouch.
Lelouch advocated lying because he believed it's how people are able to better themselves. That part of his character ties in to his philosophy on the past/present/future, where he argues against stagnation as a result of a world without lies or change. Immortality is stagnation, and the way I see it, Lelouch would be going back on what he said about people seeking the future if he were to wallow in immortality himself.
You could argue Lelouch takes the same route as CC - they both learn to live instead of just accumulating experiences as immortal beings. But I think it's kind of redundant to just tack Lelouch on to CC's character development like that.
>The power of the king will condemn you to a life of solitude.
I agree with that as one part of his way of thinking. Just not that immortality contracts it, since even then he's going to be doomed to not live a normal life.
Plus Taniguchi did make the newest post-series picture drama, Turn 12.06, back in 2013 or 2014. It has this moment where the spotlight literally shines on C.C. and Lelouch and they have this teasing conversation:
C.C.: "So where would you go back to? The Black Knights? Your sister? Or…"
Lelouch: "That’s a stupid question. It would be…"
C.C.: "…it would be?"
And then other hijinks happen, but I think it's easy to read between the lines.
Functionally speaking, whether he lived or died, makes little to no difference, because the entire point of Zero Requiem was to remove himself to break the chain.
I personally believe he lives, for plenty of reasons already stated, among several other theories of my own, but it doesn't diminish him, because aside from C.C., he's still abandoned his previous existance and his story is over, and he's dead to the world.
>whether he lived or died, makes little to no difference
Agreed. It's one of those "fan mysteries" that I wish didn't distract from the rest of the series. There's so much more to Code Geass than whether or not Lelouch is alive. But personally, I consider him dead just because I'm a sucker for bittersweet endings.
>I disagree. I think it goes against his character and works to undo his development throughout the show to have him survive the Zero Requiem and become immortal.
That's where you missed the point; that "what Lulu WANTS" generally have nothing to do with "What Lulu GETS".
Yes. Lulu wanted to die. He even said so outright, that he deliberately choose death.
But it doesn't actually contradict his character for Lulu to survive, if he DOESN'T plan to, and only realise he became immortal after the fact when he crawled out of his grave.
It would have been against his character for Lulu to avoid his own death. But it is 100% in character and the theme of the show that the ONE time he deliberately wanted to die, he failed spectacularly and got the very opposite. This is consistent with Suzaku, who also had a death wish but ended up unable to die as well. Wanting to die is actually the surest way to end up living forever, as the universe conspired to fuck Lulu over and giving him the opposite of what he wanted.
—–Congratulations on the completion of “Code Geass”!! It was a shocking final episode; did you have a difficult time writing it, Mr. Okouchi?
Okouchi: “No. The last episode wasn’t difficult at all; in fact, it was the middle parts of R2 that turned out to be rough going. For the final episode, [I'd/we'd] already decided on the ending when writing the script for the first episode of the previous series. Episode 1, Episode 25 (Episode 1 and the final episode of the previous series) and episode 25 of R2 — these episodes did not deviate much from our original plans.”
—–”Some unresolved mysteries still remain.”
Okouchi: “From the very beginning, [I/we] never planned on explaining everything. In fact, if you ask me, I think we might have overdone the explanations. While it’s undeniable that Lelouch’s story has ended with a full stop, the other characters’ stories are still on-going, and it’s not like the world [of Code Geass] itself has come to an end either. [I/we] didn’t want to end it by closing it up for good.”
—–”Still, isn’t it possible that defeating the wise ruler Schneizel, the person who was supposed to have brought order to the world, might lead to some [viewers] interpreting it as a Bad End?”
Okouchi: “That’s true. There are probably a lot of people who think of it as a Bad End, a tragedy, considering the protagonist’s, Lelouch’s end as well. However, Lelouch says in the first episode: “Only those prepared to be shot are allowed to pull the trigger themselves.” If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end. Of course, I understand that not all of the viewers will accept this ending. There were people who wanted a happier ending, after all.”
>code geass was 8 years ago
just end me; end me where i stand put me out of my fucking misery
Too bleak and cliche to end just there. Would have been just another generic "rise and fall" cautionary tale about peoples' lust for power. R2 brought the series to new heights.
Everyone who doesn't think Lelouch is immortal in the end, explain the epilogue.
>It's just a random scene without meaning.
>The emperor literally giving him the code on screen was random without meaning as well.
He's dead, everyone who worked on the show said so, if he was alive it'd just be fanservice to the people who idolize the whole "people who play by the rules r dum and awesome evil super smart snowflakes like Light and Lelouch desrv happy ending." Fucking no you idiots, the point was that he was a monster willing to sacrifice a beaten people's hope for his own selfish desires, and by dying he reversed all the damage he had done, making him an almost decent human being. He doesn't live, deal with it you pathetic fags.
Japan's fetish with good guys winning is pretty lame. Really lame, in fact.
This fetish has ruined potentially good shows in Zankyou no Terror, Gargantia, even Aldnoah, and I'm sure there are many more I can't remember right now.
And yet there is not one word in that interview where Okouchi is asked about Lelouch's state or where he says that death is what happened to him. Getting killed =/= Death (in anime).
Nigga shaddap. The Chinese Federation arc was fine. The hunt for the Geass order happened a bit too fast and had that awful school festival episode, but the first confrontation in C's world had so many character moments. And everything leading up to the second battle for Tokyo, the Black Knight betrayal, and everything Emperor Lelouch was fucking stellar.
The only shit parts of R2 were the "escape from Japan" episodes in the first half which were muddled and silly.
You're apparently confusing
a) Different interviews held separately and with distinct individuals, where they never directly talk about Lelouch's death.
b) Articles written by an entirely different group of people, such as the "DT" thing, which is not anything either of them said. It's in a magazine article, but that's all.
This is your argument? He's actually perfectly clear there. Those aren't ambiguous words.
He's saying that he thinks Lelouch dying was the logical way to end it and he understands that some people won't be happy with that ending, but it is what it is.
Leila is also smoking hot and entirely underrated as a Geass girl. They're also crazy hot noble or dirty 11 chicks though.
Was the question he answered about Lelouch's death? No.
Does the answer mean that Lelouch couldn't have woken up as an immortal, Highlander style? No.
He says that the ending can be seen as bad/sad because of what happened to Lelouch, but then he explains why it's logical for him to be killed. HOWEVER, he doesn't say, and he certainly shouldn't, a single word on what happened afterwards.
So, who won?
People will still argue about this even though it's obviously a draw.
It's pigtails that drive me crazy, anime or not. That shit has no place in the military, especially since Leila is a pretty strict fellow. And even so, Leila's overall design is just too childish for my taste. Maybe she doesn't have enough versatile facial expressions, which is something the original series excelled in.
Well, that's a personal preference. I think her normal hairstyle is the best and can't really be described like that. I don't have any problems with the uniforms either.
I'd say there are some scenes where Leila does show a lot of expressions, but I would agree the OVA has less of them in genera. Less animation directors are involved, though they do get more time to increase quality as a whole.
there is a pint that you guys have overseen, renember that nunally can recognize people by just touching their hands? well, when lelouch falls to where nunally is when he is stabbed nunally touches his hand andstart crying, that is a solid prove that lelouch is actually dead
I hope he's alive.
I hope he's immortal and lives long enough to realize the folly of his ways.
Ultimately, Lelouche's rebellion ruined the most advanced nation on the planet.
His reason for doing this was 100% personal and ultimately, very poorly thought out. When I was younger, I thought he was awesome, but now I realize that he was just a kid lashing out because he disagreed with his father, which ended up getting a lot of people killed and running the entire country to the ground for personal reasons.
Charles was a staunch supporter of cutthroat competition in order to decree who was worthy.
This means that Nunnaly, in all likelyhood, would have been reduced to a political tool in this internal powerplay between the different factions in Britannia or by foreign countries who are trying to pick a fight with Britannia.
Except, there was a way out.
Don't partake in the powerplay of Britannia.
Lelouch and Nunnaly managed to fake their deaths and live their lives peacefully until big bro started going terrorist.
If a child and a cripple can escape the violent Britannian court life and still live as well as the top 1% of the country, then anybody in the royal family with two brain cells should be able to do it.
If Lelouche wanted to change Britannia, he could have partaken in the British powerplays and if he was competent enough, he would have risen to the top.
Bloodshed would be only contained to those who desired power and an awful lot of lives would be spared.
It is not enough that one has the best intentions, one must also be competent.
Even a man with selfish intentions can rule decently if he is competent, but the worst rulers are those who have best intentions and are incompetent.