Have time travels ever been written in a consistent way? I loved

>>136155736
>Have time travels ever been written in a consistent way?
no

>>136155736

Of course not. The sole concept of time travel is impossible in a non-plothole method unless it works off multi-verse theory.

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>>136156109
what about time rewind?

>>136155736
what was inconsistent about it? haven't watched in a while and its been even longer since i read, but i remember it being one of the best done time travelling stories I've read.

>>136156198

Only if the character using it isn't affected by their own time powers mentally.

If you go back in time to kill Hitler, a paradox will happen because there will have been no need for you to go back in time to kill Hitler because Hitler is dead; so you didn't go back in time so you didn't kill Hitler.

>>136156256
Pretty certain it's bait.

Apart from Ruka switching sexes after conception, that was some horseshit.

>>136156256
Not op, but episode 24 would be one on top of my mind.
He goes back once, both him and his past ego exits. He goes back again, both him and his past ego exist, but not his previous instance from the future.
I get that it being there would have broken everything, but it still should've been there according to the rules the show set previously

>>136156321
What if you're in a setting that allows shifting of history, but not of time travel? e.g. you are now in the past having killed some man with a stylish mustache for reasons you don't remember.

Pern.

>>136156391
They explain it. Physical travel creates a very slight change in divergence, meaning you'll never get two instances of the traveler. Good thing you were listening. Also, sageing because there's already another S;G thread up.

>>136156455
>They explain it
Only in the VN though.

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>>136155736
The writers deserve a medal for being able to wrap the whole shebang up in two episodes.

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>>136156321
so homura is EYE OF STEINER?

>>136156391
this was one instance.
Also the whole attractor field thing was gimmicky and stinked of plot device so much it wasn't even fun.

>>136156385
>anything i do not agree with is bait and i'm not going to argumentate my reasons

>>136156411

Still applies the paradox unless the person who orchestrated events is immune to time perceptual changes.

>god shifts reality to send you back in time
>you kill Hitler according to his plans
>god no longer had a reason to send you back
>so he didn't

Of course; it'd be impossible to have a character immune to time perceptual changes because time is an actual physical thing rather than a concept. DIO would stop time by either moving at temporarily the speed of light, or by causing a gravitational singularity at his location that is harmless somehow. Even he would be incapable of going back in time because that implies having a reason; and unless you're incompetent you'll end up finishing you reason to go back.

Theoretically possible if you only go back far enough that the events of your time travel line up with what happened in the normal timeline. (You reverse time to stab someone in the heart instead of miss them. Or you dodge a bullet instead of get hit by it.)

>>136156488
>claim something is inconsistent and plot-holey but give no examples
>accuse others of not providing their arguments or reasons.

Geez what a fag.

>>136156488
In VN it's explained more consistenly, the anime overlooked some explanations.
But goddamn, I dropped my arms at Rukako changing sex, because fuck they Y chromosome, right?

>>136156321
You can't kill Hitler with rewind unless you were born before Hitler died

>>136156562
What I mean to say is that time travel cannot be undone by itself. Even if you were to undo the circumstances of your time travel, you do not have to be sent back any longer once you've arrived.

>>136156572
Anon what are you, retarded?
Everyone knows that eating veggies alters the chromosomes.

I also had a problem with them sending "therabytes" of datas over LHC in mere seconds.

>>136156198
That's the simplest and most consistent way to do it

ITT /a/ writes a consistent time travel scenario

>>136156647
>therabytes
Terabytes, anon.

>>136156624

That'd work I suppose. It's a rather shitty power though unless you're immortal.

>>136156572
Health nuts on /a/ have already come up with a hypothesis about that.
Basically, presume Luka has partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (he's so effeminate by default that it's not a big stretch). The alteration to the mother's diet just shifts that to complete androgen insensitivity syndrome, individuals possessing that basically grow up to be females despite being XY chromosomal.

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>>136156198

related to >>136156732
did homura rewind her own biological age aswell? wouldn't she be some years older than the other girls if she didn't?

>>136156756
I thought that the implication was more that the butterfly effect had led to it than literally his/her mum eating lots of vegetables.

>>136156840

Since she is capable of moving in her manipulated time, yes.

Either she is immortal due to being a magic girl, or she is older than everyone else due to the time spent inside time powers.

>>136156756
But even so the SRY gene in chromosome y would still stimulate the testicle development

>>136156840
>>136157060
Do madoka mahou shojo even age biologically?

>>136157119
They're essentially fleshy dolls once Kyubs takes their soul out, so probably not.

>>136157117
Yeah, in the position of the ovary.
You could say that Lukako should then be infertile, but I wouldn't put it past 5pb. to have just forgotten or not known that to begin with.

>>136157233
The only explanation that could make a lick of sense considering the fertility is if Luka was a chimera and the meat/vegetables thing changed whether or not the absorbed twin became the sex organs or not.

Probably?

>>136157315
Either way, Ruka is fucking gross please don't fuck his manpussy.

>>136157233
Maybe Rukako has XX male syndrome and the veggies caused an inactivation of the translocated SRY gene. It'd also explain the feminine traits of male Rukako.

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Post Kurisu.

Would a threesome with Luka be considered MMF or MFF?

>>136156484
That was the saddest thing ever. We got a condensed version of what was supposed to be S2 in a flashback. Fuck Sunrise for making shit like Cross Ange two-cour and this a single cour+OVA.

>>136157461
We don't need two S;G threads.

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>>136157461

>>136157504
There are probably 5 Phantom World threads right now, why not 2 S;G ones?

>>136157570
Because there's less of us.

>>136157603
*fewer

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>>136155736
There are no plot holes.

>>136156385
I think that was just supposed to be an example of the butterfly effect in action. Something incredibly insignificant like eating more vegetables resulted in a female Luka being born due to an uncountable number of variables that would have changed as a result. It's not the writers saying that veges = female.

>>136156488
Convergence is just a way of explaining that certain things must take place in order for the universe to have a precise configuration while also acknowledging that the minutiae of each sequence of events won't stop certain other events from happening.

Chrono Trigger

>>136158092
>there are no plot holes in my super special favourite anymey but i won't address the ones pointed out in this same thread
Anon, please.
Steins was good but certainly note for plot cosistency

>>136156321
The problem is that going back in time and causing something that changes the following events in a drastic way will automatically erase everything that should have happened and create another timeline. The past always has priority over the future, and if you change the past, it will remain changed no matter what the previous future has to say about it.
From then on, there are two plot solutions: either the character becomes a part of this timeline, a person born from nothingness (said solution might come with memory rewriting) that keeps on living.
Either the character disappears because the past changes trigger a chain reaction that destroys/completely changes his family line.

>>136158615
Would you care to point them out? Admittedly I skimmed the thread.

Time travel was a mistake. We need to go back.

>>136158863
That is basically the ending. The only stable world is one without time travel.

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>some guy's detailed and intricate post about timetravel on a forum in the 00s resulted in a really successful VN (and an anime, and a manga..)

Jesus Christ, what the fuck.

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>>136159109
See? Butterfly effect!

>>136158859
>>136158859
Aside from Rouka the terabytes of data one is pretty triggering.
Also the fact Okabe did not find his previous self from the present when he went back a second time makes little sense, since the anime states physical time travel happens in the same divergence index. An anon said the vn addresses that, but anime wise it is still an hole.
Aside from that there is the matter with CERN still researching time travel in the steins;gate timeline.
Additionally the plan to save kurisu is baka because it implies kurisu's actual death has less of an impact than beta okabe witnessing it.
Also the anime does not address why Mayuri's death would be the this important for the Alfa line.
To be honest, pretty much anything related to the attraction field and the divergence index was gimmicky and a really evident plot device. There was not a real pattern in weather an event could or could not happen to push the divergence beyond 1%. It just served to push the plot wherever the author wanted with no question asked.

>>136159243
>because it implies kurisu's actual death has less of an impact than beta okabe witnessing it.
He would be breaking causality otherwise. Okabe needed to see Kurisu in a pool of blood to end up there the second time. Convergence would've stopped him like the first time.

>>136155736
but anon, time travel itself is a paradox

maybe a future timetravel show could be written without plot holes because it's possible without violating causality

>>136159378
But they violated causality several times before in the show.
They also said the event which caused the time shift does not exist in the resulted timeline so there isn't really a need to respect causality at all

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>>136159243
>Aside from Rouka the terabytes of data one is pretty triggering.

The data compression was just the writers fudging the science. It didn't contradict anything previously established, nor did it leave anything unnecessarily unexplained.

>Also the fact Okabe did not find his previous self from the present when he went back a second time makes little sense, since the anime states physical time travel happens in the same divergence index. An anon said the vn addresses that, but anime wise it is still an hole.

You heard him. The anime adaptation is not the source. The VN explains that.

>Aside from that there is the matter with CERN still researching time travel in the steins;gate timeline.

The difference is that they aren't able to get it to work as they desire it because they don't have access to Kurisu's expertise.

>Additionally the plan to save kurisu is baka because it implies kurisu's actual death has less of an impact than beta okabe witnessing it.

Actually that's correct. What matters is that Okabe send his first D-mail to think shtos dead so he'll panic and send it. Her death isn't strictly required.

>Also the anime does not address why Mayuri's death would be the this important for the Alfa line.

Because without her death Okabe has no motivation to shift worldlines. Her death is necessary to reach Steins;Gate.

>To be honest, pretty much anything related to the attraction field and the divergence index was gimmicky and a really evident plot device. There was not a real pattern in weather an event could or could not happen to push the divergence beyond 1%.

The attractor field model is an abstraction. There aren't literal attractor fields. It's referencing the scale of certain events and how hard they are to change through human actions. Okabe's actions in Alpha only changed minor details while not addressing something major, like SERN's access to time travel technology. Regardless, this isn't even a plothole.

>>136155736
>Have time travels ever been written in a consistent way?

There is no such thing as "consistent" time travel.

Time travel is a literal impossibility as causality can never be violated. The idea of time travel itself is nothing more than fantasy.

>implying causality exists

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>>136159798
>this thread

>>136160051
Oops, didn't mean to reply to anyone, sorry anon..

>>136159776
Not hime but I add that SERN research has been partly diverted to weapons.
See the black hole bomb and R;N

>>136159938

Causality is the fundamental truth of the universe. In no circumstance has causality ever been violated. It is a literal and theoretical impossibility to violate causality.

>>136159109
that's why S:G and FS/N are equivalent fandoms

>>136160171
What's FS/N based on? I never paid it much attention.

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I'm still not sure whether this episode was a clusterfuck or genius.

It was enjoyable at least.

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>>136159243
>To be honest, pretty much anything related to the attraction field and the divergence index was gimmicky and a really evident plot device. There was not a real pattern in weather an event could or could not happen to push the divergence beyond 1%. It just served to push the plot wherever the author wanted with no question asked.
This is my interpretation, I haven't read the vn: in an attractor field certain things have to happen because otherwise it would be paradoxical.
Take the beta field for example: you cannot change Okabe seeing Kurisu in a pool of blood because otherwise he wouldn't have sent the D-mail, therefore timetravel wouldn't have been discovered and you wouldn't have been able to change the past in the first place, I think that's why you go back to beta timelines by erasing the d-mails from SERN's database rather than preventing Okabe sending them.
This also addresses
>Additionally the plan to save kurisu is baka because it implies kurisu's actual death has less of an impact than beta okabe witnessing it.
as it's exactly Okabe sending the first D-mail the trigger of everything.

>Also the anime does not address why Mayuri's death would be the this important for the Alfa line.
my almost certain wrong explaination: you reached the alpha attractor field by sending the first d-mail, the messages Okabe recieved are catched by SERN who will then capture the lab members and kill Mayuri no matter what. The ONLY way to prevent that from happening is to erase the D-mails from SERN's database which then jumps back to the beta attractor field.

>>136160127
read some Hume faggot :^)

>>136160746

>read philosophy

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy philosophy, but it is utterly unrelated to time travel.

>>136156683
None shall die alone or unknown.

The motto of the Passant family has a special meaning when uttered from the current head: exactly twenty-four hours later, the speaker will die with a beaming smile.

One year after Judoc coldly wrote them out of his staggering fortune, Josse and Zivilyn hear that fated line from his very lips. The distant first son is unable to return when someone else’s attempted suicide leaves him quadriplegic; the present second one, unable to hear the purpose of the denied inheritance until the family is all together.

But words are nothing if they cannot ensnare, and nothing binds truer than the Confidant’s Creed.

>>136160127
>In no circumstance has causality ever been violated

unlike your waifu

but seriously, are you guys seriously arguing over time travel mechanics in an VM/anime which is merely using time travel to develop characters?

>>136160876

The OP of the thread was talking about consistency in time travel. Time travel is itself inconsistent with reality.

>>136160876
>but seriously, are you guys seriously arguing over time travel mechanics in an VM/anime
people get mad over it
0/10 inconsistent writing shit anime

>>136160876
Yeah, but that wasnt op's point.
I also liked steins but certainly not for the time travels.
Thread intended to just discuss time travel mechanics in narrative.

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>>136157461
I gotchu senpai

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>>136162434

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>>136162519

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>>136162563

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>>136162636

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>>136157461

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Is this coincidence or word 'Stein' in S;G has roots in Berenst(e/a)in Conspiracy?
http://www.groundzeromedia.org/the-stain-on-the-stein/

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>>136163006
spooky

Just started watching this, please tell me that the mc gets over his autistic chunni phase. Every time he laughs his "mad scientist" laugh i cringe

>>136163219

What the fuck is a "chunni phase"?

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>>136157461

>>136163219
He's acting for the retarded girl, so she doesn't kill herself.
Not that it helps, since she dies.
Lots.

>>136163219
He does at the end, it's supposed to be ironic for when all his fantasy's and delusions become real.

>>136163394
>delusions
wrong show m8
bad joke is bad, please don't hurt me
>>136163109
I'm sure the point is that there is no point

>>136163433
SUPER SPECIAL

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Beetus, I summon you!

>>136160383
I could easily say that about any of those episode.

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>>136163721
>You will never an assistant

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>>136157570
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this shit
>filter "phantom world"
>9 hidden threads

>>136159109
We should get a writefag to make a year long hoax so they make an anime out of it.

>>136166662
Are you sure you want that?
>Sorry to blogfag, but I need some help with this. A few weeks ago some weird address just texted me a number. I thought it might be a phone number or something but I just ignored it as spam. Tried emailing the guy back but gmail told me it wasn't a valid email or something. I tried it a couple of days ago out of curiosity and it turns out it's the number of this girl I've been crushing on. Kind of creepy but I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. Anyway, this is where it gets interesting. I called her yesterday and told her how I feel about her. I drowned in my own spaghetti but apparently it went well enough that she agreed to talk about arranging a date at uni tomorrow. I asked her when she was thinking after class but she acted like she had no clue what I was talking about. I assumed the worst, that she was just fucking with me, and dropped it there. Then about ten minutes later I got a call from her sounding kind of hurt asking why I didn't try and arrange something with her today. Is she just messing with me or did I really approach it that badly with her? /a/ probably isn't the best place to ask for dating advice but it can't possibly be the worst.

>>136167461
>Don't worry anon, you'll find a way.

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>>136166379
Don't worry, neither will okabe!
other than that one timeline.

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>>136168145
Steins gate 0 when.

>>136168145
>>136168279
This series is so nonlinear with its time travel storytelling that we had the happy ending where he gets the girl after all the hardship before the deep pain and suffering.

>>136159776
>The VN explains that.
I don't remember the VN explaining that, actually. How did that work?

>>136168565
Physical time travel causes a very small shift in divergence. Too small to even register on the divergence meter, but still present.

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>>136168565
Here's a screencap.

>>136169046
More games need a backlog feature

>>136169046
ass_pull.jpg

>>136169046
>>136168629
But if matter and energy are the same thing, what is the difference?

>>136169046

Wasn't that pointed out later to be a lie? He asked about the Grandfather paradox or something and she said it's not possible but it totally was.

Y'know since future Okabe sent a D-Mail in the past to save Kurisu doesn't that means years down the line the Okabe we followed is gonna get replaced by his future self's Reading Steiner activating?

>>136170939
>matter and energy are the same thing

They aren't.

>>136171236
No. Future Okabe is too busy being dead.

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I M M I N E N T
M
M
I
N
E
N
T

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>>136171751
I won't buy a ps4 if it's true dammit

>>136172066
Get a Vita TV, m8. Then you'd be getting NoAH and Love Chu Chu in one.

>>136172190
Already have a Vita 1000.
Only bought it for this fucking game.
And S;G but I've already had it on PC.

So will see a PS3/Vita?
Or maybe X360( lol)

>>136156256
If we treat time leap according to the same rules as sending D-mails Reading Steiner should overrite Okabe's memories at the time that he has time leapt in the previous world line with his memories from that point.

Also the existence of Reading Steiner itself imples that the previous would lines do in fact still exist, otherwise there would be nowhere to pull the memories from in order to overwrite current Okabe with them at the time they are needed.

>>136172686
>Also the existence of Reading Steiner itself imples that the previous would lines do in fact still exist, otherwise there would be nowhere to pull the memories from in order to overwrite current Okabe with them at the time they are needed.
I don't think you understood how it works.

>>136159798
"consistent" just means that it doesn't violate it's own rules, it doesn't mean it has to act the same our would does.
Euclidean geometry is consistent even though it's not how reality behaves.

>>136172817
How does it work then? Where do his memories come from after the world line has already been erased?

>>136155736
gr8 b8 i r8 8/8

>>136172867
Doesn't he simply not remember the current wordline?
Better said, the electric impulses in his brain are not rearranged when the wordline changes, like the others.
Someone said that S;G0 offered an insight about it though

>>136172926
Reddit please go

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>>136155736
The only really inconsistent and plot holey time travel S;G has is in the movie. And you don't watch the movie for the plot but for pic related.

>>136173043
So the events happening in the new line, but before actual switching never acually take place, and just get reconstructed and overwritten?

Then again we shouldn't even see Okabe in the past after time leaping, we should just see him in the new line in the exact same moment, with the exact same memories, but after a copy of his self he sent into the past was acting until then.

>>136173712
>So the events happening in the new line, but before actual switching never acually take place, and just get reconstructed and overwritten?
Yes. That is how they explain it every time. There is a single universe that could exist in many different configurations.

>>136156455
At no other point in the series do we see the world just erasing something, or breaking any laws of physics to keep the divergence stable, it's always doing it through completely plausable means.
We see that again in the movie, but as >>136173629 said it was written after the main story was already complete and it's mostly OkabexKurisu fanservice.

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>>136174050
>it's mostly OkabexKurisu fanservice.
You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>136174142
I'm absolutely not saying that's a bad thing, I really enjoyed it.

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>>136174179
Good

>>136173712
Time leaping also alters divergence, so the world is effectively reconstructed. Like many of those experimental Dmails it doesn't alter that much to trigger Reading Steiner, and so neither the Convergence is changed.

>>136156647
>problem with sending the data
>not with compressing it using black holes

>>136156572
>>136157361
>>136156385
Maybe mother was pregnant with twins and one of them dies depending on what she eats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twin

>>136175127
I've never seen anyone use this explanation before. This explanation actually works.

>>136175127
>Maybe mother was pregnant with twins and one of them dies depending on what she eats.

That seems pretty contrived. Mothers don't just lose babies depending on what they eat.

>>136175390
It's better then a y chromosome magically turning into an x via the power of vegetables.

>>136170939
>what is a photon

>>136170535
Yeah, still thought that was an asspull, but hey, it's something.

>>136175390
Read the link I posted.
It's estimated that in 20-30% of pregnancies that start as twin pregnancies one of the twins dies, it's not the same thing as random miscarriage.
As to which twin dies, it doesn't have to directly be caused by the food itself, but whatever else might be different because of that, like to which store she went shopping, or which side she ended up sleeping on afterwards.

>>136175390
>>136175445
>People missing the point this hard
It wasn't literally the vegetables that did it. That was never the implication.

>>136176144
Then what did it?
When they said the D-mail she was already pregnant so it makes no sense either way to that the baby would change sexes.

>>136177718
>What did it
That's a good question. The incident was meant to point out the unpredictability of the butterfly effect. Telling her to eat vegetables should've had no change at all, yet it triggered a significantly different series of events that ended with Luka as a chick.

>>136177865
She was still already pregnant you stupid faggot

>>136177865
The butterfly effect is not something that would allow something completely impossible to happen.

Looking at the plot of steins gate in retrospect lots of inexplicable things happen because "butterfly effect" like Mayuri being pushed back by EXACTLY a day each time he changes the timeline or how he was destined to kill a girl through time travel after using time travel to alter destiny.
Let me repeat that, it was his destiny to change his destiny through time travel before he even knew he had a time machine or used it, that's COMPLETELY insane.

Honestly the only explanation I can think of is that steins gate is the story of some cosmic being fucking with him for shits and giggles by making him think he can time travel, the machine was just a fake the whole time and it was all hidden wizards.

>>136179268
Mayuri's death*

>>136178269
>what's sex differentiation
As others said he probably has a different karyotype, a different twin is absorbed or maybe Luka's mother eated radioactive vegetables or what hell I know, it was only to point out like>>136177865
said the butterfly effect.

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Is it too late for more cute posting?

>>136179268
It was an accident borne of idiocy, an unwanted miracle

>>136155736
Yes.
Primer.