>>136128996 Why are you even in 321, you should already be in like JPN 424 with your superior nipponese skills from anime without need for 100-300 level courses, and still excel in the class with no need for studying.
>>136130451 Go memorize kana right now if you haven't done it yet. If you can do that much, you've got an okay chance of making it. If you're ballsy you might want to try some very basic kanji as well, but don't feel too bad if it seems to much straight off the bat.
>>136130587 >just dropping it in with English feels wrong. I agree, but if the teacher is actually Japanese and it's a Japanese language class, calling them Mr. Yamaguchi or whatever sounds equally weird, even if you're talking to them in English.
>>136130708 >calling them Mr. Yamaguchi or whatever sounds equally weird, even if you're talking to them in English. If you speak English, you should speak English consistently. There's nothing sillier than replacing the easiest terms in a language just to appear to be speaking a different language. It's as dumb as Hollywood making everybody say yes and no in their supposed mother languages. There is nothing wrong with Mr Yamaguchi, provided you pronounce Yamaguchi correctly.
>>136130798 Well, that was the standard practise in our classes and there were almost no weebs there. Or the few there were got weeded out in the first semester or two. Really though, we were pretty much expected to talk Japanese consistently in our classes after the first year, so it hardly mattered. And you say that, but it's weirdly common practise. My dad used to ask me to check his business emails to make sure he was using the correct honorifics for his Japanese clients, and they always used honorifics in their emails to him as well. It's just kind of standard. I agree that it sounds weird in dubbed anime and games though. Persona 4 honorifics always sounded fucking unnatural to me.
>>136128996 Why are manga required reading instead of proper Japanese literature? Why are you reading English translations if its a Japanese class? What kind of good goy would pay so much money for such an obviously shit class?
If you are a huge faggot you will just start kana and then vocab and learn kanji that way. If you want to be able to read and get monogatari start with Kanji by radicals. If you plan to master nip speak, start with Kanji. If you want to forever remain a pleb then struggle by doing vocab.
I memorize vocabulary just fine, but Japanese grammar gives me trouble. I feel like I'm never going to make progress in homestudy because I haven't had grammar explained to me further than the bare basics. Should I try to take a class? If so, should I start with the most basic course?
>>136132116 Skip the classes and save your money. Or spend that money on something a bit more useful. Learn grammar on your own and don't up like OP taking 300 level courses and still not being able to read full novels.
>>136132116 Have you tried going to the learning jp threads on here or bought/pirated a book on learning jp? I've taken classes and maybe it was just my teachers but it was mostly regurgitation from the textbook
>>136132510 I bought two books on grammar when I was a teenager, but they were in storage until just a few days ago. I have them back again, so if you think textbooks are demonstrative enough to get me over these hurdles, I can try and do that until the spring semester starts, and then see where I'm at.
>>136132799 I honestly don't know enough about grammatical terminology to tell you. (I admit I'm not well educated.) It's just that I have trouble making sense of sentences beyond those that are very basic. I understand the functions of things like は and の but when we start delving into something like を I have more trouble, and it only goes downhill from there. I'll take a peek at my books shortly and see what they have to offer.
>>136132972 Well, を really just marks an object to acted upon by a transitive verb. You basically need to memorize which verbs and forms are used with を and which ones are used with が. It really is a memory based thing. Like how other people memorize articles for nouns in some languages, you have to memorize particles and which verb they work with. That's one of the main points of を and of course there are many functions of these particles that entire books have been written about them and their place in the language. I wouldn't sweat it too much there. Learn the basics of the particles and figure out usage through reading practice. That's the only true way to grasp them because most definitions are going to be too abstract to be helpful really.
>>136132972 Come on, を is just an object particle. りんごを食べます - I eat an apple. I admit, it gets tricky with stuff like に, which can be for points in time or space, a direction from our towards something and some other shit. Other than that, it doesn't get very hard. You just have to memorize which verb form to user with each construct like ために or ように
>>136133588 I heard turkish somehow being related to japanese by having similiar words for I think it was mountain or dog, but I didn't now the grammar was also similiar. It's still weird to think these two distant places have two related languages if you ask me.
>>136133535 Korean isn't that similar to Japanese though >>136133850 I think it's just a theory, and not a very well validated one, it's more likely they're just two languages which happen to be similar in grammar
>>136133850 >>136133900 A lot of weird stuff managed to pass across that stretch of the world, like those Greek gods being used as the design basis for Fujin and Raijin. Who knows what else made it across.
>>136133912 Altaic theory is not widely regarded as accurate any longer
Korean and Japanese may be related far back, but nothing firm
Japanese most likely originated on the Korean peninsula but as a separate language. The vocabulary between the two languages outside of shared Chinese loanwords is vastly different however. It's more likely similarities in grammar are due to close proximity to each other during development.
>>136133850 Turks of Turkey weren't always where they are now; the first accepted Turkish literary example is an inscription monument situated in pic related for example. It's probable that the two languages had some mingling in their birth phase.
>>136130082 I don't think there were any "stereotypical" weebs but there was this really big dude last semester who had a clannad pic in the cover of his binder I think I saw him playing it on his laptop one time too Pretty sure it was clannad, at least. Never got a good look There's also a few people with merch There's a guy with soul eater shirts and a girl with a haruhi keychain and she's actually really pretty and thin instead of the typical blue-haired hambeast that you'd expect We're down to about 10 people now. Most of the low-powerlevels dropped out within the first month or two. I'd say our class has been kinda filtered out and honestly isn't really cringy and weebish But yeah everyone's pretty chill and doesn't talk about animu all the time
>>136130361 Our teacher actually prefers that everyone calls her sensei, considering she's japanese
>>136135025 It's theorized Japanese people are a mixture of early migrants from the tip of the Korean peninsula and native inhabitants who had been there even longer, though compared to now both had been there for a pretty long time.
Ainu were the earlier inhabitants, but were mostly replaced wholesale in the southern parts of Japan, but became more mixed and only basically disappeared recently in the more northern parts of Japan. This is why people from Japan, and especially the northern parts of Japan, can often grow full fluffy beards, while most east Asians cannot. Because Ainu had strong beard genetics
>>136135904 being familiar with Filipino variety shows, I know the basics of how generally awful Asian TV is to outsiders (not that Western is TV better) but I like to think that there are people in all cultures who can recognize how cringe inducing some of these segments are.
I used to like Gamecenter CX, which was like going to cafe and having a lovely time, only it was a dagashiya or arcade.
At least the ads can be fun.
>>136135994 Exceptions will happen, universally, most of it will suck.
>>136135766 Why doesn't English reformat it's spelling to reflect modern pronunciations?
Because if future generations learn a new system of writing, all the centuries worth of literature in that language would be inaccessible to them. The government could effectively control what the people know about its nation's history, which is exactly why the PRC implemented its simplified form: not to increase literacy but to control all knowledge.
This is not how COMPELLING CONTENT works. If you don't like what you're reading, you're not going to care, and the work is going to be low-resonance.
When are language classes going to stop trying to shove a square block into a triangle-shaped hole and learn that you can't approach teaching a foreign language by railroading the student? The first semester should shoot to get through kana, a grammar guide, and get you started on vocabulary and kanji using anki. That's extremely lenient for four months of study. After that, it should basically function as a study hall, where you read what you want to read and listen to what you want to listen to, and come to the teacher with any questions. The only real structure should come from anki. Use something along the lines of the J-CAT to test that they're making progress. I can guarantee you that the class will become redundant long before four years are up, on account of the fact that even the slower students become fluent within their first 2-3 years.
>>136135904 >people just walk around town going into cafes and having a lovely time, which makes up 70% of all programming >still watching >It's true Jesus hell. It's probably worth to keep this stuff on for practice, but I'm beginning to really wonder if this is okay for my sanity.
>Always tell myself that learning a second language is admirable no matter the reason >Want to learn Nip but still painfully embarrassed I'd have to be upfront about it with family and friends, who'd assume I'm doing it for the anime/manga (which is a part of it, but I do really like Asian culture, cuisine, etc.) >Did around four months of reps a few years ago and have retained almost nothing, but still kinda recognize shit and can barely read kana >Been wanting to pick it back up again, but college offers nothing >I'll never truly master Japanese until I've victoriously studied for at least two or three years on my own and lived/visited there for at least a year or two >You'd end up spilling spaghetti to every native person there as you fumble in broken speech anyway, presumably while red faced and stammering (I don't do well when embarrassed) >tfw you want to be cultured but being cultured means endless struggling One day... One day
>>136130276 This is highly unusual, but my first Jap class only had four or five out of thirty people drop it. Our prof put off hiragana until after the add-drop period so it would look bad if you left the class mid-semester. That doesn't mean he's teaching it correctly however.
>>136138730 >Always tell myself that learning a second language is admirable no matter the reason >Want to learn Nip but still painfully embarrassed I'd have to be upfront about it with family and friends, who'd assume I'm doing it
>>136130276 >>136130341 >tfw got a 100 on my Japanese I final & an A (there is no A+ here) in the class >tfw not going to take Japanese II Sensei & half my class will be like, "He was so good at it, why didn't he keep going??"
How do I into grammar? I'm kinda stuck on my learning, I'm about 200 cards in a kanji deck but I don't understand grammar for shit. Should I just do core 6k? I haven't done core 6k reps in a while and don't feel like going through the hundreds of reviews I'll have to do.
I recommend against it. The first two years are snail paced, and the methods used throughout are extremely counter-intuitive.
This is something that boggles my mind. Everybody knows that language classes produce failures who never learn the language beyond a superficial level by the truckload. This is true whether you're talking about immigrants learning the local tongue or people studying in their home country. Yet, people still believe that if you want to learn a language, you should go to class.
>What should I do, then?
Look up Tae Kim, which you will be powering through Look up RealKana, which you will be completing over the next week, max Download anki Grab Core 6k from our own DJT topics If you want, grab the RTK or KanjiDamage deck (I recommend turning these into writing practice) When you have maybe 2k words or so, start reading; you can use dictionary tools like Chiitrans Lite for games or KanjiTomo for manga Grab Dictionary of Japanese grammar for grammar that you don't understand
Move along at a good pace, and you'll be running circles around 4th year graduates before 2016 is up. I guarantee it.
>tfw finishing second year Japanese >weekly interviews >weekly vocab tests are more like kanji tests >almost entirely chinese and japanese people left not like there are many in the class anyways Japanese class isn't fun anymore. Even watching comedy shows as a class makes me feel like I'm dying inside.
Another issue is correct pronunciation and inflection. Whenever I hear those foreign characters in anime say ARIgaTOOgoZAI MAASSUUUUU I always laugh but then I look at myself trying to pronounce shit I realize why its a stereotype
>>136140232 Japanese is very unstressed as a language, it's got subtle high and low pitches only. Meanwhile in English stress and the length of sounds changes meaning entirely, so native English speakers tend to overstress Japanese a whole lot.
Being too obsessed with motivation is an extremely common quality of half-baked failures.
There are two things that you need for motivation: You need to believe that you're going to make it, and your end goal needs to be important to you. Oh, and you need to see the fruits of your labor, but if you're not slacking off, this won't be a problem.
Once you have those, it's a matter of discipline, AKA that quality of getting to work even when you're not feeling motivated. It needs to become something of a routine, like taking a shower and brushing your teeth.
>>136140112 >Everybody knows that language classes produce failures who never learn the language beyond a superficial level by the truckload I mean, I won't deny the vast majority of my classmates in French class ended up like that, but I'm fairly adept at reading, writing and listening to French now after 5 years of it in high school/middle school.
By the fourth semester of Japanese at my school, students had dropped from two full classes of 25+ to less than a dozen. I think me and the fujo I sat next to were the only weebs left, but the first couple had all the fat annoying faggots.
I took Japanese for depth and bredth requirements for my CS bachelors. I skipped straight to 201.
> Catching up was easy, but took a bit of time, mostly for vocab. > Kanji was easy to memorize, but took some time every day. > Grammar wasn't too terribly difficult. > Speaking in an actual conversation was fucking impossible.
So basically I failed the oral test and did decent on everything else. Low 80s, such is life. Took 202 only for the same thing to happen. 301 was focused on conversation so I dropped it.
>Had to take some filler class so I had this just to fill in some gap >Never did the Homework >Did okay on exams >Always got yelled at for not doing the HW but never had the time to do HW due to my other 3 classes raping me. The language isn't hard, I just can't dedicate enough time to it and I didn't want to lose sleep over a filler course.
>>136149639 Kanji isn't that hard once you start memorizing the most frequent ones. I fucking actually jumped for joy when I encountered 勉強する in some doujin, my textbook studies were finally beginning to produce results. Though to be honest I wouldn't have recognized it without the character sitting right there studying while saying it.
Start with the easier kanji to learn. 日 is a sun and thus also a day, 月 is a moon and thus also a month. 目 is an eye, and doesn't it look like an eye? And this kanji, 見, looks like an eye on legs. Something whose sole function is to see. And sure enough 見る means "to see", and 見える means "to show". You might have guessed my primary source for studying Japanese has been exhibitionism doujins.
>>136148821 >>136149523 The notion of taking language class in college is really alien to me -unless you're a nip lit student or something-. Even for us in the east, at least we take relevant subjects for our easy credit modules.
and you don't need introductory nip lessons if you're a weeb with enough exposure since it should be 2nd nature. College people who are really interested in nipponese should learn the equivalent of JLPTN2 and above, keigo course, and stuffs that actually helps for business
>>136151248 Dont bother with advanced vocab like say, Presidential Candidate, Mail Subscriptions, Chartered Accountant, etc.
Just settle with shit that you'll use in daily conversation and stuffs that you hear in your chinese cartoon and song lyrics. Jump to grammar afterwards, enough to cover basic structures and maintain conversation. Then jump straight into conversations and practical application, preferably with a native, ask them about difficult vocab, that's the fastest way to get better in nipponese.
If you focus too much on grammar you'll end up like nips themselves and their terrible english.
I haven't actually tried it yet because I couldn't be bothered to, but I imagine it would help your vocabulary and kanji recognition a lot to read some raws (if any exist; again, I haven't checked) of Shounen Jump or other such publications for young people. When I visited Japan and flipped through one (and didn't buy it for some stupid reason) everything seemed to have furigana attached to it.
>>136151864 That's just an expressway to be a fluent speaker without formal studies and coughing up as little coins as possible. If you really want to be good at the language, you still need intense courses.
I can maintain lengthy conversations in izakaya and bars, but I'm illiterate and can't read past nip games-level stuffs.
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