Witness the power of the Green Truth, able to destroy all implications, illusions, and ills of delusional minds!!
>implying Beatrice isn't best girl
>implying Erika isn't Bernsexual
>IMPLYING ERIKA ISN'T A SHIT
>IMPLYING ANY UPSTANDING MAN WOULD DATE SUCH REFUSE
If you can't understand why your truth means nothing before the Green it's because >(YOU)'RE a FUCKING NEWFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG
An ERIKA thread?! What an excellent idea, I was about to make one myself.
>All of a sudden I have a date tonight.
What has been your best moment in being a seacat?
Personally I have 3 highlights. Back in 2009 helping contribute to the Manon theory which then eventually evolved. Somewhere in 2011(?) participating in the yotsumoe madness.
And finally battling it out with willard in that last post in the thread, thread.
Overall seacats are without a doubt my most memorable experience of /a/
>And finally battling it out with willard in that last post in the thread, thread.
Those two or three anniversary threads are definitely my favorite. 2015's anniversary didn't seem that big, but I still enjoyed it.
I regret not participating in this one. I stopped visiting the threads when the Witch Hill song, or something like that, was found. Then it seemed too complicated to get back into. I wonder if we'll ever get more DameDame.
>Overall seacats are without a doubt my most memorable experience of /a/
Same here. Too bad the threads nowadays are so dead, even with long periods of time between them. I still believe we'll get more Umineko, or some translated Ryukishi for discussion. I bet his new manga will be fun.
With so much content coming out, I'm hoping that if/when the horror VN, TRI and that new thing that was announced gets translated, the ryukishi threads will get their life back.
Naturally not enough activity to ruin the comfyness, but just enough to allow these threads to get to the 500 post mark over 2/3 days again.
I wonder if it'll ever happen. I guess we can hope Mangagamer would be up to it when the time comes.
>Naturally not enough activity to ruin the comfyness
I was initially excited for a possible Umineko anime when that Ufotable picture appeared here, but just as you're saying, this would probably ruin these threads. Considering the manga or the VN certainly wouldn't be as popular as an Umineko anime, I think it would just improve the threads.
Congratulations on your job, by the way. I'm glad you got there.
>I wonder if it'll ever happen.
In witchhunt I trust. Soon tm
As much as I'd love to see Chiru animated, I can't see something like Umineko being animated without putting it on 5x speed and thus ruining the pacing and making it look like an advertisement for the VN. Not to mention the horrible quality of S1 and the infamy of umineko in japan. R07's devil contract with Deen
Please r07, try to get someone else for your next adaption
All signs would point to another disaster if a Chiru anime were announced. It wouldn't get any Blu ray orders either.
R07, did good, with cashing in on Higurashi by making spinoffs with the Higus in silly scenarios. Kind of following in Nasu and hollow ataraxia's footsteps of putting your popular franchise in a silly SoL setting, even though you can't really compare the 2 settings much.
Thanks mate. Turns out it was my calling. While it is a lot of paperwork, it has that fun detective side to it.
Although very unlikely, they could always atleast try to make Umineko much longer. There's enough material to use, so if both Umineko and Umineko Chiru had 50 or so episodes each, I'd say it could work. Reading Umineko was fun, this could possibly work too, even with large spaces between exciting moments. I know this is impossible, but I guess I'd still enjoy waiting for a new episode with other Se/a/cats. Especially if the adaptation weren't shit.
>Please r07, try to get someone else for your next adaption
I guess we can hope Ryukishi realized Deen fucked up hard with Umineko and won't work with them anymore.
Who am I kidding, of course it's going to be Deen again. I remember talking to you about poor eyesight and your inability to go that way in career a while ago. Erika would surely be impressed.
The threads on /jp/ feel like generals. I haven't been in an Umineko thread there in a while, but the slow movement makes it seem more like a chore to come back to it rather than something that appears sometimes and is interesting immediately.
Who would you like to see as the main character if we were to get a slice of life Umineko anime or manga?
Bottom line. DEEN will give people the adaptions that would otherwise be impossible. Though what they did with database S2 was awful.
I still can't get my stubborn friend to read past EP 2 umineko for some reason. I keep shilling but its not working. Fuck, he said he'd do it just to read about my waifu, but he said that a month ago. How do I get him to keep reading so I can cackle at his theories?
My friend started reading Umineko because of some videos that I uploaded, so he had some things spoiled. I guess it keeps people going if they know something crazy is going to happen at some point. He got stuck at EP4 because of Ange but then he suddenly continued. Might've been more spoilers. I know they're generally a bad thing, but it works. If you're going to do this, just don't spoil too much.
I definitely enjoyed the Christmas threads.
Shame that most Seacats thread these days barely even reach 100 posts.
Gohda. I've always had a weird fondness for Gohda. In fact, I'm still waiting on a battle scene with him.
Do you remember one of those side stories Ryu-chan wrote? I think it was about Battler finally becoming GM and all these characters like Kumasawa and Gohda coming up to him asking if they could have a cool fight scene like the other characters. I think Gohda was asking for a cool fight scene where the murderer walked in on him in the kitchen while preparing a delicious dinner and then Gohda would pick up a pan and say something cool like "I CAN'T LOSE IN THE KITCHEN!!" and this amazing fight music by zts would play. I love the idea of that. Anyone remember which side story that was from?
I finally finished this fucking thing after a month of avoiding these threads as someone told me to. From what I got, Shannon killed everyone because Battler stood her up, Natsuhi kind of tried to kill her, and it was that time of the month or whatever motivates women, and Kanon was probably made up(Yet was somehow seen by the rest of the family, writing that off as a disguise or mass hysteria). I am kind of suprised that instead of going the whole "Face your problems, escapism is bad mmmkay?" route, it did the exact opposite with some Life of Pi tier horeshittery. Maybe I am just too euphoric, but I liked the trick ending much more. It would have been fun to watch Ange live a life of intellectual rape, but sadly the only way to unlock the tea party is to go with the sappy magic route. Time to read Tsubasa then.
Subjective evidence? Erika in the game board was broken, I admit that, however, with the "subjective evidence" she presented anyone short of an autist could clearly see the bf was a cheating asshole. You can't blame her for not believing him saying "I love you" which that much circumstantial evidence.
Sorry for the autism outburst, but Umineko threads always make me want to argue shit.
I agree with you fully.
What I remember the other anon argued that her thinking that she was being cheated on while in fact she wasn't, served some sort of a narration point. Hell if I know. All you have to do is look at the evidence and its clear to see that he most likely cheated on her.
I guess that it shows that she crushes all dreams, even to her own detriment. It highlights that she is sad and pathetic person who acts the way she does in order to compensate, but at least she gets a happy ending.
>he still uses buzzwords to refute the painful truth.
There is no golden land.
There is no magic.
Battler never loved Beatrice
They all died.
It's a tragedy with no happy ending
She's the witch of TRUTH for a reason. Lies, even if they are white, aren't allowed in her dictionary.
Induction, not deduction is the keyword here.
Wait, hold up. I thought I was supposed to be going on a date with two cute girls.
Sure it was a tragedy. But how that tragedy is seen changes the story from a psychopath serial killings story to a tale about overcoming said tragedy and moving on. The golden land, and magic are the same as the version of paradise of all religions across the time in the world. It might or not exist, but the story isn't for the departed, but for the ones who were left behind.
You can't prove Battler never loved Beatrice. Heck, you can't prove no one survived. In the magic ending Battler survived. Considering how shifty the meta is, Beatrice could have done the same. Heck, by using devil's proof, you can only prove Maria's death at the end of the catbox.
Happy ending is subjective here, is what I'm saying. Magic ending was a happy ending in my book.
Beatrice left behind a hill of sadness and tragedy. Yes ange learned to cope with it, but just because some loony decided to enact their favourite novel in real life (possibly)
Something happened to the ushiromiya family, everyone who survived had their lives destroyed because of said event.
Now if that isn't tragedy then I don't know what is.
Resurrected replayer > Lastendconductor > dreamenddischarger > worldenddominator > liberatedliberator > the executioner > mirage coordinator
>Figs for every character
This is what hurts the most. I have no problem with garage kits, been airbrushing since I played Warhammer at 14, but the few that there are have been out of production. I would love another anime to cover Chiru. Sadly it will never happen now that everyone has forgotten about Umineko.
Are you the one that made those deformed Rudolf and Krauss figs that I saw quite a while ago?
Sorry, I didn't save the image back then, but looking for it I found this.
Stop staring you sick individuals.
I also finished it recently and to be honest I kind of agree. I was really surprised with the direction it took with Ange's acceptance of magic. I still chose the magic ending, mostly just because I wanted to honor Battler's wishes.
I still need to let it sit and collect me thoughts a bit more on it before I really decide how I feel about the magic vs truth thing I think.
For me, at first I was full on Erika mode after finishing, finding Battlers idea of magic completely nonsensical, but as time passed I slowly started to understand the other side better.
While still on Erikas side of the fence, I can see the other side and understand where they're coming from.
I think I would have chosen the magic option more quickly if they just tried to sell it as "The truth doesn't matter if you have to waste your life trying to learn it, its better to let go." than magic. I mean thats kind of what it is already, but putting that under the guise of magic kind of put me off.
Personally I feel like it's always to look at the truth directly and let your thick skin absorb the impact of the truth, instead of trying to escape it.
It's at least how I see it. Naturally with umi you can counter me by saying
>But you never know that's the whole point
where as I would say, yes, but you can always know to a certain certainty.
>Personally I feel like it's always to look at the truth directly and let your thick skin absorb the impact of the truth, instead of trying to escape it.
I agree, but in the case of umineko there's really no way to learn what the truth really was. Although, instead of making up your own comfortable "truth" which is what I thought Battler was implying, I'd say just give up. There's really not much differentiation between the two, but the fedora tipper inside me just can't accept the "personal truth" thing.
Same. It really came down to which was the more rational decision. Sure Ange shouldn't have killed herself over that truth, but it doesn't mean that she has to live in blissful ignorance.
>Desktop PCs like that in 1986
I don't think it should be called "blissful ignorance"
Her whole state of mind in episode 4 on can certainly be called that. But in the magic end it's more of a blind hope. Whether Battler was alive or dead at that point didn't effect anything. It her thoughts on the truth, not the truth itself that effected her life, turning her into a writer. Like the catbox Battler could be alive or dead. So while I search for him I'll believe he's alive.
I think Erika is on the right track, but she assumes too much. There is a one truth, but you can only see it once you open the catbox. Was Battler alive or dead? In her rush to find the truth, Erika and "trick" Ange assumes nobody survived Rokenjima. She's desperate to find the one truth and believed the catbox had already been opened with the truth right there for the taking. It isn't exactly about pessimism or optimism. "Magic Ange" wasn't hasty about finding a conclusion and understood that the catbox actually hadn't been opened yet. All she knew was Battler was alive or he was dead. So she naturally chose the better Battler.
In the end Ange didn't chose blissful ignorance. She just understood that the truth was unstable and made a choice about what to believe.
You have to learn to love them.
Look for the heart, everyone has a "why" to their actions. And I'd argue it's not just boredom.
Don't open the catbox, please keep this terrible truth sealed up.
Gohda killed everyone with stomach bombs
I read through the manga's part 8 as that one anon recommended. So Shannon was actually a dude, who got his dick ripped off, and was raised as a girl for no apparent reason? How did they even fuck that up? I understand that Genji was gay to the point where Ronove's nosebleeds turn into roses and that the first thing he thought of when Yasu grew up was Kinzo forcing him to wear a dress while vigorously fucking him in the asshole while screaching OH BEATRICE as per usual for bald old men, leading him to hide the child's survival, but that doesn't make him queer to the point where he would raise a dude as a lady. Surely he would have known the baby's sex, was it done to explain why Yasu had a gaping hole where his dick should be? I assumed that the injury in the VN just made it look like Shannon had a c-section, forcing George to drop her as used goods.
You keep calling them Shannon, but Shannon is not necessarily the dominant personality in the Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice clusterfuck.
Genji probably enrolled them as a girl to honor the idea that they were another reincarnation of Beatrice. Or something. To be honest I have no idea why Genji would do that but thats the only thing I can think of.
It does make sense. But it's kind of hard to accept something so simple. What do you think of these motives?
Lambda is the obvious love/obsession with Bern due to her backstory which is different from boredom. For Bernkastel it's
an elaborate theatrical play put on to wake her old friend Featherine from her sleep. There's nothing that states this, but indicators like "I don't want to play the villain next time" and Bernkastel picking up the villain role only when Beatrice fails her job, Featherine awakening after that. Why did Bern pick up the supposed failure Ange and put her in the game? Only to be picked up as Featherine's assistant after. etc.
Don't open this image. It's the single truth of everything.
I imagine Lambda living like a hikki. And then she goes and crashes at Bern's. Bernkastel is writing up some argument for the magical senate and Lambda drops in to read manga and munch candy on her bed.
And then you add a whole other layer of comedy when Featherine gets bored and visits, making them say/do whatever she wants.
I like to put this on and kick back in my chair and just relax.
Very nice, I really like this vocal version
I wonder if the Horurabi manga will have a scene like that but with a character from Seacats.
I don't know if any Umineko exclusive characters made it off of the gameboard other than Erika, who was hanging out with the two voyager witches in another fragment at the very end. I can imagine that there will be equivalents somewhere down the line.
You're just saying buzzwords, you can apply shit like that to almost everyone
>Bern was just an edgy mary sue with her fucking scythe
I don't actually believe that of course, but still. Statements like that don't mean anything.
Though I don't neccesarily agree with you, your statement is entirely correct about the fun part. I found myself laughing way too much when the witches were laughing, especially near the end of episode 5 where they enact their elaborate scheme to frame Natsuhi.
I like to think of Will as a kind of personification of the typical American detective. He's super competent and he doesn't always agree with his own rules. It kind of feels cliche and too competent compared to the other cast, but that's your typical detective main character for you. I think Erika would be a female Will if you took all the crazy out of her.
Thats just a matter of opinion. I thought they were both entertaining.
I will say that at first I was put off by Will. Thats mostly having two new characters introduced so late in the story (Will and Lion) with such unique design was a little weird at first. My first impression of them was that of fanfiction characters essentially. Especiall with Lions "Im a new member of the Ushiromiya family" introduction.
By the end of episode 7 I grew to like them though. Nothing is inherently wrong with edginess.
DINDINGDINGDINGDING CREEEEEAK *squelching noises followed by cackle*
There's a kind of dark charm that's created when the comedy scenes and the horror scenes have the same sound effects and I fucking love it.
Fug. Continuing, since I'm rereading currently, what the heck was Sayo doing during the 3rd game. Eva solved the riddle so she should've stopped the murders and turned off the bomb. Instead she sat around watching Eva kill her family and she still wasted Nanjo in the end.
I'm a goat so pls help
It's been a while, but isn't it up to the person that finds the gold to do whatever they want as the new family head? Evatrice was a big deal in EP3 and even though she was faking it, Beato tried to make her take a different approach.
Don't worry, no one has been able to solve this problem either.
Why would she kill Nanjo? Oh sure, you can create some motive relating it to ep 7, but she has no real reason to kill him at the end when it is completely not ceremonial, like the closed room murders. How did she not know Eva solved the riddle? How did she not notice Eva and Rosa leave the mansion? What was she doing all this time? Remember, everyone was hidding in the small guest house, not the mansion.
Funny enough it's also the red Eva-Beatrice said that no human would ever be able to solve. The 'who killed Nanjo'. A contradiction of two reds. Beatrice promises that the person killing will no longer kill anymore after the Epitaph is solved, yet the solution for solving the red requires the murderer to kill after the Epitaph is solved.
How odd, isn't it?
How does it make sense? When did Eva 'get Yasu to kill Nanjo'? What evidence do you have, or are you fabricating evidence to make theories fit?
Remember, Battler was next to Eva the hole time after the first few murders.
Indeed, a true unsolved mystery, as Eva-Beatrice claimed.
Yes, and Maria.
Don't you think it's funny that Rosa confessed again in ep 7? Even Will dismisses her confession, saying he already heard it before. Why would Ryukishi07 retell Rosa's confession again? Isn't it also funny how Rosa's confession happens multiple times across gameboards, as though the killer/writer of the forgeries know that the confession is a certainty.
Actually fuck the third game in general. I took it as Sayo being AFK from killing since the riddle was solved which means everything post 1st twilight was Eva/Hideyoshi.
So Eva iced her own son just because but trusted Sayo enough to give her a gun and tell her to kill Nanjo? Why not blow Sayo's brains out? The only purpose in doing the Nanjo kill is so Meta-Battler can cry about it, it has fuck all to do with anything on the gameboard.
And if the Nanjo kill wasn't Eva's idea it seems pretty weird. Maybe Sayo just wanted to sit with Jessica as Kanon until they all exploded. A final fuck you to everything else.
Indeed, it is very silly. The gameboard has no effect on the meta. Meta-pieces are just observers and the game does not effect them nor do they seek an effect on them.
>Maybe Sayo just wanted to sit with Jessica as Kanon until they all exploded.
Ah, but why kill Nanjo then? And why not also kill Jessica, why care at all? Jessica was killed many times in the past without remorse. Yet now she wants to sit next to Jessica for the end? Don't you think that's a contradiction of behavior?
>as though the killer/writer of the forgeries know that the confession is a certainty.
That makes sense, but Rosa's confession wasn't a big deal, was it? It was just the Kuwadorian meeting and that Beatrice's death.
>Ah, but why kill Nanjo then?
Not that anon, but it could be a change of heart. Realizing Eva solved the epitaph, she had to stop herself, stop Beatrice. To effectively do that, she killed Nanjo, because he was her accomplice. When Beatrice stopped existing, George was already dead so she might've wanted to become Kanon because Jessica was still around.
>contradiction of behavior
Well the third game is a forgery and also a completely different situation to the other games, with Sayo's rampage being stopped before even the second twilight. Wanting to spend her final moments alone with someone she loved, as Kanon at least, seems plausible.
>The only purpose in doing "insert thing here" is so Meta-Battler can cry about it, it has fuck all to do with anything on the gameboard.
That kind of happens a lot
>Don't you think that's a contradiction of behavior?
That kind of happens a lot.
Not that the Nanjo murder is any less ridiculous though, its probably the most extreme example of those two things.
>Rosa's confession wasn't a big deal,
Of course not, it was completely irrelevant, had zero impact on the story, did not advance the plot. It's merely a side note of little notice.
If it wasn't a big deal, why was it added in ep 7?
>it could be a change of heart.
It doesn't work like that. Beatrice keeps her promises. Solve the Epitaph and murders stop. Her murders stop at least.
Again, why care to be with Jessica if in another gameboard, Beatrice killed Jessica without a care? You are twisting facts to fit theories rather than doing the other way around. A killer cannot kill someone and not feel anything then also feel something for said person to not kill them.
Umineko by far.
The sprites im Umineko seem much more professional.
>Beatrice killed Jessica without a care?
Because Beatrice stopped existing as a murderer when she realized Eva solved the epitaph. Considering Nanjo is her accomplice, her tool and furniture, killing him means stopping Beatrice. Kanon gives a shit about Jessica while Beatrice is able to kill without remorse.
>killing him means stopping Beatrice
>to stop being a murder, one must murder
Battler, stop hiding behind Ikuko.
Also, there are no personalities, only one person acting, so you are wrong. Again, twisting facts to fit theories rather than the opposite.
Plus, what proof do you have that 'killing an accomplice' means stopping Beatrice?
Did you just make that up? Did you think it made sense? Or did you think it was simply the only possibly theory?
>this person is obvious the murder, instead of simply dismissing it by requiring more proof or alibi, try and think why the murder would do such a thing
Because imaginary motives are proofs. Why provide evidence for something, it's a fact! Why even think, that's just silly.
>Also, there are no personalities, only one person acting
That one person we're talking about has issues. A change of heart for someone with multiple personalities doesn't sound like a problem to me, especially if she can't control it herself.
Solving the epitaph means stopping Beatrice, but if Beatrice doesn't know about it, she won't magically stop.
>Did you just make that up?
>implying it's not reasonable
>if Beatrice doesn't know about it
Provide evidence that Beatrice doesn't know about it. Devil proof. As you said, solving the epitaph stops Beatrice, there is no but. Red truths confirm rules and events within gameboards. Solving the Epitaph stops Beatrice from committing more murders.
If there is a but, it means that solving the epitaph means that it doesn't stop Beatrice. A contradiction. The red is no longer a red.
Are you saying Beatrice broke her promise?
>lack of suspects means this the only possible suspect
Did the humiliation of Erika in ep 5 of claiming Natsuhi was the culprit not stop you? Don't stop thinking. It's fine if you think only Shannon can do it, it's as far as you can think.
You must provide incriminating evidence to make claims, not lack of proof.
Since Eva was alone when she first discovered the gold room, couldn't she have met Beatrice then and formed a plan with her?
Episode 7 indicated that Beatrice gets really apathetic after the epitaph is solved. It seems reasonable that Eva, drunk on gold, could decide to off the family and recruit Beatrice's help to "carry out the ritual".
>Go to sleep
>Somehow thread still up when I wake up
This is the real magic.
At least I truly see.
>Since Eva was alone when she first discovered the gold room, couldn't she have met Beatrice then and formed a plan with her?
Why make plans? Epitaph solved, Beatrice no longer exist. No more murders from Beatrice. Why would Beatrice accept any plan to commit murder?
Provide evidence that Eva met Beatrice and formed a plan. You are desperately clinging to a theory without any evidence.
Plus, if you want a hint, when did Eva become Eva-Beatrice? Or, if you need a bigger hint, when did Eva get the ring? The meta gives you a clue. Eva did meet Beatrice, just not in the gold room. The meta and the real world can cross paths when in parallel.
>Episode 7 indicated that Beatrice gets really apathetic after the epitaph is solved.
No, Ep 7 tea party indicates that even with Lion being alive, tragedy would not be averted.
>It seems reasonable that Eva, drunk on gold, could decide to off the family and recruit Beatrice's help to "carry out the ritual".
Indeed, riches can truly make any person go completely insane. Such a simple answer. Or perhaps you forgot that moment when both Eva and Rosa did not shoot each other, as they both agreed that killing for the gold would be stupid. But I guess Eva just changed her mind on that, riiiiiight?
It feels like you missed the point of the story a bit. Umineko is intentionally full of ambiguity. Evidence is important, but in the absence of evidence, tossing around plausible theories is a valid approach.
> Why would Beatrice accept any plan to commit murder?
Eva solved the epitaph, she is the head of the family and lord of Rokkenjima.
>No, Ep 7 tea party indicates that even with Lion being alive, tragedy would not be averted.
Both that and my point are unambiguously indicated in Ep 7 tea party, they aren't mutually exclusive.
>Indeed, riches can truly make any person go completely insane. Such a simple answer. Or perhaps you forgot that moment when both Eva and Rosa did not shoot each other, as they both agreed that killing for the gold would be stupid. But I guess Eva just changed her mind on that, riiiiiight?
Again, not cut and dry, just a possibility. And lying to get the trust of the woman pointing a gun at you is a pretty reasonable thing to do. Eva gains nothing from dying together with Rosa, but she stands to gain a lot from getting Rosa's trust and backstabbing her later.
I think it is you who missed the point of Umineko and detective fiction in general. Tossing around plausible theories is a valid approach, since everyone is allowed their own interpretation of events, as stated in red by one of the Knox. However, theories do not become fact without evidence.
>Eva solved the epitaph, she is the head of the family and lord of Rokkenjima.
How does that relate to making Beatrice commit murder? Do I have to repeat myself that after the Epitaph is solved, Beatrice no longer exists and murders by her stop. There is no afterwards, murders by her stop. This has been stated in red and the red is absolute.
>And lying to get the trust of the woman pointing a gun at you is a pretty reasonable thing to do.
And it's also a possibility, one that you ignore, that Eva would not kill for money.
About the whole truth vs magic debate, I think its important to show that there is always a heart behind the perception of reality.
People who cruelly use "the truth" as a tool to cut down people's perceived happiness or to undermine their values and sense of self are just as guilty of ignoring reality as anyone.
Take for example the case against Natsuhi in Ep.5. It made logical and simplistic sense to have a Natsuhi culprit theory because we knew she was already guilty of hiding the death of Kinzo. The fact that she was a faithful wife who was only trying to protect her family was ignored as immaterial and irrelevant because it go in the way of the "truth". Destroying her pride by use the red truth of Kinzo never trusting or respecting her was horrifically cruel and destructive and had no bearing on the fact that Natsuhi BELIEVED it and therefor should have been a mitigating factor in her motive.
The literal, objective, red truth does not judge and does not make assumptions or implications pasts its own scope, however intellectual rapists like Erika wield it as such while ignoring hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.
For example, you could use the red truth to prove that humans don't have independent personalities or free will due to everything being the cause or result from a previous state. You could prove that we aren't even the same people today that we were yesterday because cells, memories, and neural pathways are not identical to our previous states.
The objective, undeniable truth certainly does exist, however it is only to beings who live above and outside our world. We can only glimpse a tiny fragment of the truth through the lens of a human, including their hopes, dreams, love, and beliefs. To discount all of it as irreverent in the search of "truth" is just convenient hypocrisy to carry out your own objective and paint reality as you personally see it.
TLDR: The sea can be blue even if its grey.
>The objective, undeniable truth certainly does exist
>she killed Battler, obviously it was for money, why else would she kill him???
All you've shown was that Eva killed Battler but not her motives. There is no need to be rude and call me names, evidence is very hard to grasp but theories and ideas are a dime a dozen. Do not falter and keep thinking.
Why are you acting like I'm stating anything as absolute fact? Obviously, there are many implicit possibilities, but expecting me to list every single one of them is unreasonable and silly.
>How does that relate to making Beatrice commit murder? Do I have to repeat myself that after the Epitaph is solved, Beatrice no longer exists and murders by her stop. There is no afterwards, murders by her stop. This has been stated in red and the red is absolute.
1: The ritual murders carried out by Yasu-Beatrice stop. Yasu doesn't cease to exist as a person if she drops the Beatrice persona.
2: Gohda is willing to assist in murder in his duties as Ushiromiya furniture. The same could very well apply to Yasu in service to the new head of the house.
Again, these are POSSIBILITIES. I'm not actively denying any theories or stating these as fact. Don't be a goat about this.
Objective truth can exist as a concept or idea that we know to be as such, while *effectively* being subjective do the fact that we are working parts of the whole and by definition cannot see the full picture while being part of said picture.
You can't know the universe without becoming a witch or god and leaving it. For example, when you watch The Little Mermaid, even though you KNOW with 100% certainty that Ariel will always chose to become human, would you deny that Ariel had the free will to chose not to? In the context of her universe she is an independent character that makes her own decisions, even though as theatergoers we know she is destined to do the exact same thing no matter how many times we rewatch it.
We have the independent objective truth only because we are outside that universe. No one inside the universe can have a perfect understanding of the truth.
>The sea can be blue even if its grey.
The sea doesn't have any color, it's transparent. You're nothing but meat, without importance, just like the own life. Magic doesn't exist, just like love, and the truth is the only thing that matters in this world.
>Yasu doesn't cease to exist as a person if she drops the Beatrice persona.
I did not claim that, Beatrice stops killing. You must prove that this 'Beatrice persona' exist and that 'dropping it' lets Shannon commit murder. You have not and it is dismissed.
>Gohda is willing to assist in murder in his duties as Ushiromiya furniture.
No proof of such a thing existing. At best, you can claim that because Godha was with Shannon and Kanon in ep 2, that he is an accomplice. But this is not enough proof to suggests that he is an accomplice or that he helped to commit murder. You also lack evidence to suggest that by being the head of the house, Godha will listen and follow orders. Godha is not Genji.
Possibilities does not mean that they are truths. Because, hey, it's also possible that the moon landing never happened, right? If you aren't stating these as fact, you should also provide a counterpoint.
You are claiming something without anything to back it up.
And yet, objectivity is also a key element, something that is also thrown out the window when convenient.
>Godha is not Genji.
Also, to further this point, not even Genji follows orders. In ep 2, Genji was willing to fight Beatrice. How funny that the robot servant will defy the head of the house.
It always bothers me that Lion is shown with blonde straight hair but we know from the manga that Sayo ends up with wavy, brown hair.
>truth is the only thing that matters in this world.
Truth having any sort of merit of value over lies and ignorance is a sack of meat's philosophical opinion, fampai. By your own blade you cut your own lifeline to reality and fall into the abyss like other foolhardy "witches".
I am not quite sure of your argument because I couldn't go back all those comments, but Yasu has shown that when the epitaph is solved, she basically becomes a lifeless doll and does whatever the person wishes.
The narrative in Ep.3 seems to show a game-board in which Eva solves the epitaph, is explained how to "Beatrice" by Yasu and is left to her own devices but at some point is betrayed by Yasu who decides to revive Shannon, kill George, and in general just cause other impossible shenanigans in order to preserve the legend of the witch.
I know this isn't really supposed to happen when someone solves the epitaph, but isn't Ep.3 a Tohya creation? Its also possible that Yasu wasn't aware that Eva and Rosa found the gold and therefor continued the ritual as expected. Or perhaps even Eva gave instruction like "assist me in carrying out the epitaphs to cover my ass" and since Yasu is pretty much dead and emotionless at this point, killed people like George because Eva didn't tell her not to.
Whoops, I mixed up Gohda and Genji's names. Sorry.
I don't know if you are intentionally or accidentally ignoring what I said about all of these being possibilities, not fact.
Try not to do that in the future, its not so fun debating things with someone who just tactically ignores the parts of your argument that are inconvenient for them.
I am simply showing that you have no basis or evidence for your theories.
>Yasu has shown that when the epitaph is solved, she basically becomes a lifeless doll and does whatever the person wishes.
Oh, and when does this happen?
>betrayed by Yasu
You are using the meta as evidence. I am not dismissing your attempts to try and find some meaning to the meta, but by no means can it ever be considered proof or a hint of what is happening. For example, was George truly dead? Nanjo checked the body but Battler did not see if George was truly dead.
Why would Yasu care about preserving the legend of the witch after the Epitaph is solved?
>Its also possible that Yasu wasn't aware that Eva and Rosa found the gold and therefor continued the ritual as expected
Devil proof. Yasu could have also been aware the whole time. How could she not be aware? What was she doing? Was she sleeping in the rose garden in the rain?
The truth only leads to a feeling of emptiness, it's true, but that void is the face of truth. Our lives are nothing, what is a heart anyway? an empty space in the nothingness of the universe without any kind of importance. You're nothing. You're nothing but an animal trained to act like a human being, you're a pig in disguise with a hole in your chest. You're shit, just like God. This is the truth, is not beautiful and refreshing?
>Oh, and when does this happen?
Have you not finished Chiru or something? I am pretty sure its a major part of Ep.7. You literally see the family solving the epitaph together and Beatrice calmly explains things to them and says to do what they will. She sits soulless on the bed and tells them to do as they will with her since she lost the game. If you don't think she would mindless follow direction but WOULD allow Rudolf to shoot her point blank you have some strange ideas.
>starts some shit about George being alive
Eva legit lost her shit because both Hideyoshi and George ACTUALLY died. The only way the George thing could have taken place was Beato magic, not EVAs. EVA didn't have the servants to act as her furniture. She only had Hideyoshi initially to provide an alibi.
You can't discount the important parts of the meta. Its unambiguous that George saw a "revived" Shannon and that a servant resealed the window he left out of and that he was actually killed. His literal death was confirmed in red when EVA was fighting Battler.
Or did you not finish Ep. 3 either?
>I am pretty sure its a major part of Ep.7. You literally see the family solving the epitaph together and Beatrice calmly explains things to them and says to do what they will. She sits soulless on the bed and tells them to do as they will with her since she lost the game. If you don't think she would mindless follow direction but WOULD allow Rudolf to shoot her point blank you have some strange ideas.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Why the fuck are you bringing Bernkastel's created scenario into this shit? Are you for real?
Seriously? Because Beatrice is shown as not caring when the Epitaph is solved, that means that on all ACTUAL gameboards, she doesn't care what happens to her? Talk about not having proof at all.
Hell, I even heard a theory that Beatrice was never there in the flesh, it was simply the gold manifest, just like in ep 2, Beatrice was all 'YEESS YESSS BELIEVE ME' which could represent the gold, showing that Beatrice exists.
>Eva legit lost her shit because both Hideyoshi and George ACTUALLY died.
Eva losing her shit does not prove that George died. Again, Battler did not have a clear view of George being dead.
>George saw a "revived" Shannon
That is not proof and you focus too much on the meta and not enough on proof. You are using subjective interpretation of things that cannot be relied on, because different people can have different interpretation of those events, as proof.
>His literal death was confirmed in red when EVA was fighting Battler.
Red truth confirm death only confirms death, not when death occurred. Remark that the confirmation of his death happened at the end, not immediately when he was found dead. It is a loophole of the red truth.
Seriously, put more effort into actual evidence and not subjective interpretation of the meta.
Dude, I can't argue with you if you are just going to get epistemology regressive and try and find loopholes in the red, as well as deny anything that isn't you view of the meta.
Bern's scenario was "a truth of a sort" and I am pretty sure in the manga it was straight-out to be implied as the truth (especially when we consider Ange suicide over Eva's diary)
Even if it wasn't what literally happened, everyone in the game-board played by the rules and more-or-less in character. The only thing important to remember was that Yasu lets fate decide here destiny, so its no unreasonable to think that she would obey the person who solved the epitaph.
>Seriously, put more effort into actual evidence
Well, when the Red Truth is a "loophole" in your opinion there is little ground to argue on, unless as I said earlier it matches your personal view.
If you aren't going to trust the author and unwitnessed events in the actual story you might as well ignore the whole fucking series you stupid goat.
Also, things that happen on the gameboard that Battler doesn't directly see is NOT the meta. It is embellished but is representative of a truthfull concept or idea.
George didn't magically fly out the window, and Shannon didn't literally come back from the dead, but when you read it again knowing the truth its painfully obvious what is going on. That was the WHOLE POINT of R07 layering the story of fantasy and mystery.
There isn't much to gain arguing with a goat. You can talk and talk and talk but they are just gonna chew on your shoes and poop on the rug.
I can't even argue when you refuse to even conceded my points. You can't even use anything from ep 1-5 as proof of anything and have to rely on the end of the story for a semblance of proof. Hell, Beatrice not caring if she's shot means she won't do anything at all, proving that she wouldn't even care to be an accomplice for murder.
>If you aren't going to trust the author and unwitnessed events in the actual story you might as well ignore the whole fucking series you stupid goat.
Jesus fuck man, even witches say that the Red isn't perfect and can be twisted. Don't give me that bullshit that I don't trust the author. You trust too much the author. You lack any goddamn skepticism.
How can you even fucking come in Umineko threads if you can't accept that the Red Truth can be bended? I just explained a loophole and you go all YOU DON'T TRUST THE AUTHOR YOU DON'T TRUST THE AUTHOR, WHAT YOU SAID IS INVALID LALALALALALALA
Like, Jesus fuck.
>things that happen on the gameboard that Battler doesn't directly see is NOT the meta
Yes, it means it cannot be trusted but it doesn't mean it should be ignored. You, however, see it as 'oh well, why ignore it, it must mean something, therefore my interpretation is proof of it'.
I should have listened to >>136106063
Also not sure if you realized but I am not the same anon you were arguing against earlier. I just decided to take up on a specific point of Ep.3 before you chewed my head off.
And yes, if you can't trust the author we degrade into an epistomological hell where we just shout opinions and interpretations at each other. I am not even saying you can't possibly be right, just that you aren't creating a conducive environment to prove your point while you shake down the entire foundations of the series.
Go circlejerk with that faggot who made 20 hours of Rosatrice shit
Except I am trusting the author you idiot. You're the one trusting too much the author. It's literally like you can't think at all and everything written in Umineko is 100% truthful.
>Goat mad his waifu turned out be a eunuch schizo
>DA AUTHUR CAN LIE THOUGH, BEATO IS A REAL WOMAN I KNOW IT
You know, something I find funny about humans is how we smear others when they don't agree to our viewpoints. We always have to reduce them and think of them as being completely stupid, shit and devoid of rational. Why else would they have opposite opinions from my own? He's just irrational that his waifu was a guy, of course, he doesn't see as I do!
Don't you think that's sadder? In the quest for the truth, rather than calmly debate points, we end up simply calling each other names like infants. And I'm not just talking about 4chan, science and the process of finding truth has been layered this way. There's this horrible amount of antagonizing bias towards others that we create towards others.
The more you sperg out like this, the less anyone wants to talk to you about seacats.
Before you post, read what you write like 10 times and think "does this seem reasonable and rational?"
No one here is inherently biased against what you are saying or determined to shit on you. You are turning the thread against you by arguing like a child.
Get your shit together.
>IT'S YOUR FAULT EVERYTHING IS SHIT
>LOOK I'M NOT BEING MEAN BUT YOU'RE ARGUING LIKE A CHILD
Why would I care about getting people against me? Why do you care if I should care? You read but you don't understand what I write. Without love it cannot be seen and you only have biases. You think it's easier and better to belittle others rather than give them credence. Nothing I've written was irrational and yet you have not proven a single thing I've said to be irrational.
Why would I care about what the room thinks? The fuck is this, a democracy? If the room thinks I'm being irrational, then it wouldn't be hard to prove how I'm being irrational or what I've said that was wrong. But no, saying I'm irrational proves I'm irrational, because many people say it.
Also, that's an Argumentum ad populum. Just because everyone in the room thinks I'm irrational does not mean I am. Ever consider everyone else is irrational because they won't accept opposing views?
A scientist goes into a room full of flat earthers and claims that the earth is round using proof as his basis. He is called irrational because it is self-evident that the earth is flat. Thus, the scientist considers the possibility that he might be wrong and that the earth is flat.
Maybe my point will comes across enough that people with opposing views are held in contempt? I'm not bitching that people in this thread have biases, I'm lamenting that people cannot think past what they already accept as truth. That, by itself, is one of the core messages of Umineko.
>tfw you've been here long enough to know the answer to all the mysteries yet too lazy to put effort in to answering some of the misconceptions of other anons
I want seacat threads to stay, but theory posting has become so boring go me.
Dude let me in, I'm a fairy.
Don't you believe in fairies?
dreamenddischarger = the executioner > worldenddominator > lastendconductor > liberatedliberator = Resurrected replayer > mirage coordinator
Although I like them all above anything else, I really shouldn't be ranking them.
Science isn't about 100% certainty.
Science is about being able to explain something through controlled experiments (and theories).
If you drop a ball in the same location 100 000 times in a row, it will drop to the ground every single time. Not once will it float up in the air. Thus through theoretical calculations and controlled experiments we're able to predict with a 99% certainty what will happen to the ball once we let it go. Scientific method.
The purpose of science is not explaining things, but predicting them. An explanation that can't predict anything is fundamentally worthless, because you can't do anything with it.
The idea behind letting the ball drop 100 000 times in specific location is so you can predict that the ball will act the same way the 100 001th time as it acted the 100 000 times before.
Now let me ask you this:
How can you be sure that the ball will act that way the 100 001th time?
Statistical probability and theoretical models that explain why the ball will keep falling every time.
Still, I feel like we're going off the subject. Point is, you can never know 100%, but you can know with some certainty and that's how life works.
To me it always looks like he's wearing a seifuku.
>I feel like we're going off the subject
We really aren't.
If the ball doesn't do what it should even once, your theory is useless.
Do you have a way of knowing whether it will always do what you think it will or not?
Whats wrong with Battler?
Witches are fags, Sorcerers are where its at.
We all agree that Rosa would be the best lay, right?
Who can't finish Episode 8? When are you fags going to finish it?
Been on hold for 3 years
Alright seacats, I present to you the following dilemma.
Say you are in a large room with Rosa standing by your side and Kyrie standing in front of you 10 meters away. The only way out of the room is for the other 2 to be dead.
Kyrie is pointing a gun at you. You also have a gun, but if you try to raise it, Kyrie with 100% certainty will kill you.
Both yours and kyries gun only contain 1 bullet.
If Kyrie kills you, Rosa will pick up your gun and shoot Kyrie in the time it takes Kyrie to try and run over to contest over the remaining gun.
What is the best option for each character to act in this scenario?
Tell Kyrie that if she drops her gun I will drop mine
If it doesn't work I throw the gun behind Rosa and then get away from both of them
Rosa would probably try to pick the gun to defend herself and Kyrie would kill her since an armed person is more dangerous than an unarmed person, leaving her with no bullets and me with a loaded gun since I'm the one closest to Rosa
This only works if only you know the amount of bullets each gun has but it's probably the safest way to do it
Using Rosa as a meatshield would also be a risky but viable strategy
About the shit flinging earlier in the thread, I am sure that Yasu murdered people after the epitaph was solved, but not with the Beatrice personal as per the read truth. It is more likely that she was not working with Eva due to the behavior of Beato in the imaginary world. Nanjo being murdered by Yasu would match up with Will's "The culprit wields a mutable weapon" statement.
In this situation Kyrie has the least power, since she absolutely cannot shoot, lest the remaining person shoots her.
I'd say anon and Rosa using this information can do whatever they want. Anon can even raise his gun at Kyrie, since Kyrie can't win in this situation and only shoot in a desperate attempt
The gun can't be raised, but if you angle it so it points away from her you can use a rangefinder, a digital balance, a wind gauge, and a computer with some ballistics simulations to find out where to shoot in order to get the bullet to ricochet and kill Kyrie. After that take her gun and claim Rosa as my wife.
It was proven mathematically that the earth is spherical back in Ancient Greece.
Basically Hume.jpeg again. Empericism is also a core theme in Umineko, as much as is subjectivity.
Give Rosa the gun. It is 100% certain that she will kill me if I raise it but there is no given probability of her killing me without the gun. A miracle could happen if I lounge to grab her gun as Rosa raises the gun and shoots Kyrie.
I tell Kyrie that she has no way of getting our of the room as she's in the worst position, and Ill make sure that anyone or anything she holds dear outside the room, I will make sure they are looked after if I survive. Then I raise my gun at her and hope I've appealed to her motherly insticts enough.
Will actually doesn't comment on Nanjo's death in ep 3, so you're out of luck. The 'mutable blade' is poison which was used to kill Krauss and Natsuhi. This was done by Eva. You are mixing culprits and murder tools.
You still have no proof as to how Yasu killed Nanjo or why.
>I am sure that Yasu murdered people after the epitaph was solved, but not with the Beatrice personal as per the read truth.
Also, you're basically going ''I don't really know it happen but I know I'm right, I just know it!''.
Best course of action for:
Walk up to me and take my gun, kill me and Rosa
Shoot Kyrie, take her gun and shoot me
Since I can't raise my gun, or give it away (since they'd kill me), I tell Kyrie that Rudolf only loved Asumu, use the distraction to take her gun, kill Rosa and Kyrie.
Don't you guys get it? Battler intentionally proposed the ridiculous bombs theory in the ep 4 tea party fight to shock Beatrice into laughing so hard she can't refute it with red in time before the time limits up.
His intellect is clearly far beyond your comprehension.
I'm pretty sure I recall it being stated somewhere in episode 4 around where the blue text was introduced that at the end of each game the witches side has to refute each blue statement with red within 1 minute of the blue statement, and if they do the detective's side has to propose a new blue statement within 1 minute.
I don't really feel like looking for where this was said though.
smile at the ladies and ask for a threesome.
At least you can go out with a big grin.
Why don't you actually open up a TV and find out? Gremlins don't exist just like witches don't exist.
The power of witches is doing something with a natural explanation and being unable to provide said explanation, then hiding it as magic.
How else could TV work without little gremlins using their fingers to make images?
>Why don't you actually open up a TV and find out?
Because what I see there doesn't really mean a thing. How do I know I'm not prone to extreme selection bias?
I would have to open every single TV there is and find no Gremlins in there to certainly say that Gremlins do not exist. If I find a single Gremlin inside a TV my claim is invalidated and my explanation is worthless.
>How else could TV work without little gremlins using their fingers to make images?
I don't know.
I'd come up with a set of theories, construct an experiment for each theory that should disprove it and hope that only one of them remains at the end.
I was bored so I went and found it anyways.
Yes yes, Devil's proof. You're boring and all you've shown is that your own observation is so biased that you can't rely on your own observation. Hume is probably praising you for your extreme skepticism and lack of pragmatism.
Gremlins control your heart.
You know, When the Seacats cried actually did this rather well and I don't think Ryukishi07 pushed the red/blue battles to its full extent. In When the Seacars cried, both the witch side and the human side throw endless barages of red and blue truths. Umineko does that a bit but not to that extent. To the point where you can literally blue truth your way to the truth so long as you don't stop thinking.
The more important question is: Why does it matter if I do or do not?
I certainly have something that is capable of moving blood through the body and something that creates pressure in rhythmic intervals, which matches the movement of my blood, in my chest area.
These are things what what we call a "heart" does.
Therefore it is reasonable to assume that I have something that acts similar to the way a heart acts.
If something acts same the way a heart would act, what would you call it?
>Hume is probably praising you for your extreme skepticism and lack of pragmatism
We can take this a step further and go a century back into the past.
How do you know an evil demon is not controlling the results of your experiments?
It's not possible that Eva killed him, and suicide was ruled out with red, leaving few options. How Yasu killed him doesn't matter. It is clear thea Yasu was in the same hallway when Nanjo was killed as evidenced by Jessica hearing Kanon's voice.
>How do you know an evil demon is not controlling the results of your experiments?
Doh ho ho, easy, you get your D out and you swing it around. No evil demon would want that.
>it can't be Eva
>it's not suicide
>look it doesn't even matter how happened, I know Yasu did it and I'm not going to think at all because there simply isn't another answer
And what proof do you have that it wasn't Jessica hallucinating, walking around in circles in the same room?
Again, you're basically going ''I don't know I DON'T KNOOWW' and it's just pathetic. All you have as proof is the unclaimed and unreliable event that Kanon talked to Jessica. That does not prove that Kanon was there nor that someone who could imitate Kanon's voice killed Nanjo because he or she was close to the body at the time of the murder.
Also, you've dismissed that theory that Shannon was used by Eva to kill Nanjo, but it still leaves you without a reason for why Nanjo was killed and why Beatrice broke the red and killed after the Epitaph was solved. You're likely going to claim that Beatrice never knew that the Epitaph was solved as a way to wiggle your way of an explanation for why Beatrice can kill. However, Devil proof that Beatrice saw Eva and Rosa leave the guest house and found the gold.
Beatrice saw Eva find the gold and kept true to her promise and did not kill afterwards.
The Beatrice persona didn't break the red, but the other personas could have murdered them just as easily. It is certainly possible for Yasu to use Kanon's voice, but then switch to the Shannon persona afterwards. It certainly is a possibility, and there is certainly not a definite way to disprove it with the red.
Secret. I already gave a large hint concerning the loophole of the red but that anon, you or someone else, went batshit insane that I didn't trust the author because all red must be taken as face value and can't be manipulated. Despite ep 8 and the manga stating that even the red has limits and can be manipulated.
It depends on your theory of who did it and why. The answer is that it isn't Beatrice (or a person with a persona of Beatrice) or Eva. It must be someone who held a grudge towards Nanjo in ep 3 and not outside of the gameboard.
There are no personas, only one person as the manga shows. You are still trying to wiggle out of the red. You, or some other anon because who can tell which one is which, claimed that I did not trust the author because I could use a loophole in the red. Yet that is basically what you are doing.
Again, the red states that once the Epitaph is solved, murders by the murder will stop. That all. No persona bullshit, they just stop. If murders are done by another party, it has nothing to do with Beatrice.
I still don't see how Yasu wouldn't have been able to commit the murders. If the red stated that the murders would stop, then why did people keep getting murdered in tune with the epitaph? The personas being seperate people was used in other parts. In Turn of the Golden Witch Beato got rid of Kanon's persona in order to use the red to say that he was dead, even though Yasu himself really didn't die until the 10th twilight. It is possible for the red to refer to the personas as seperate people.
I of course don't mind people shitting on other peoples theories but its a bit weird you'd write off other peoples theories based on them containing assumptions or interpretations and yet you keep your theory a secret.
You keep repeating that people who disagree with you are refusing to think because they think there's no way there's another answer, but have you considered that maybe they have thought about it and come to the conclusion that what they believe is the most likely possibility?
As I said, someone else committed the murders other than Beatrice, the killer. You'll notice that, especially in ep 3, when the Epitaph is solved, ceremonial closed room murders no longer happen. They turn into actual open murders. This is a sign that someone else than the original killer is committing murders.
There are two possible candidates for the murder of Nanjo depending on which theory you subscribe to. You are too focused on Yasu that you stopped thinking that someone else might have been the murderer.
>It is possible for the red to refer to the personas as seperate people.
The red states that once the Epitaph is solved, murders stop. That's all. Murders stop from the murderer.
What version am I proposing that is right? I have made no claims to whom the murder actually is.
I've already solved the who how and why. I only show the path and provide red truths of my own to counter people's theories until they find the truth.
>maybe they have thought about it and come to the conclusion that what they believe is the most likely possibility?
Thinking for a certain period of time does not validate a position.
A person could have thought very hard and come to the conclusion that the earth is flat because it is the most likely possibility. It does not make it right. However, he keeps repeating over and over that it *must* be Yasu because there are no other alternatives. That is his failing, not mine. He has already accepted is theory and has no intent to think of another possibly theory. He is twisting facts to fit theories rather than twisting theories to fit facts.
>What version am I proposing that is right? I have made no claims to whom the murder actually is.
That doesn't matter at all. Whatever you're thinking, you believe you're right and won't accept the fact other people are possibly right, even though their versions don't break the rules.
What stops the original murderer from commiting open murdes too? And as I stated, the murderer refers to just the Beatrice persona, leaving Shannon and Kanon free. Beato is following her red truth to a T. That's not even distortion considering the precedent of using the red to refer to individual personas.
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
I've proven that it does break the rules. He even states >>136124350
>If the red stated that the murders would stop, then why did people keep getting murdered in tune with the epitaph?
It makes no sense to him, so it must be personas as it is the only possible way he sees that he can evade the red truth using Beatrice as the murderer. Rather than try and find someone else other than Beatrice and Eva, he sticks to Beatrice and gives some nonsensical explanation.
I am arrogant to assume it correct. However, because I have no disclosed my truth, it remains hidden. Just like Will was arrogant to assume he had solved the murders of ep 1-4 in ep 7.
>And as I stated, the murderer refers to just the Beatrice persona, leaving Shannon and Kanon free.
And what proof do you have to back that? Again, the manga states that there are no personas, only a single person. Thus, when the red states that murders stop, the murderer does not commit any crime afterwards. It is a simple observation and curiosity that the original murderer sticks to closed room murders and then some other strings of murders happen.
>Beato is following her red truth to a T
>red truth claims that murders will stop once the Epitaph is solved
>still continues to kill
Truly following the red truth, huh? The red does not refer to individual personas nor have you proven such a thing. The red refers to murders being committed.
>The red does not refer to individual personas nor have you proven such a thing
If that is the case then how was Kanons death confirmed in red in ep2 yet Yasu was still around afterwards?
In that case maybe a witch killed Nanjo. Maybe a witch did everything.
Did Eva solve the epitaph to begin with? Battler wasn't there to witness her, and I can't remember any red saying she did solve it. It's EP4 all over again, Eva-Beatrice is a massive red herring, just like Kinzo was.
>But how did Battler survive if he was shot?
I mean, that probably didn't /really/ happen of course. It was just a possibility in a message bottle. I mean, that may have been what happened. But maybe not. You know how it is.
In that case, what do you mean by how did Battler survive? Do you mean in the magic ending? If thats what you mean then how are you even sure he was shot? When I said that "At the very least Eva shot Battler." I meant in the context of the 3rd gameboard. In reality no one knows the truth. Eva never said she shot Battler, and Battler never said Eva shot him. So what makes you think he got shot?
In the end nobody survives. Wasn't the game suspended after Eva shot Battler anyways? No red exists to say Battler died. Heck he could have dodged the shot considering how unstable Eva was at that moment.
Speaking of Eva. It's very easy to pin her as the culprit, but Nanjo's murder just doesn't make sense, if that were the case. All that fancy red she wove just means "Eva didn't do it", which just leaves the Yasu culprit. Sure she shot Battler, but having lost his husband and son would have made her a paranoiac wreck. If we go with the theory that she was innocent, she might have shot Battler out of sheer suspicion.
My blue goes like this "Eva didn't solve the epitaph, Eva-Beatrice was just a red herring designed just to give Battler clues about the epitaph. Beatrice always kills everyone and this game is no exception."
To be fair motive doesn't matter to intellectual rapists. Eva might have wanted a breath of fresh air, and stepped outside. Hideyoshi didn't want his very paranoid extended family to falesly accuse his wife, so he decided to say that she was with him the whole time.
Detective authority shows that he was shot. Anything a detective sees is truth, though that is limited since Battler needs to confirm that he died but he can't do that unless he's alive.
>which just leaves the Yasu culprit.
No, it just means it could be anyone but Eva. You think it only leaves one person and that is false.
>she might have shot Battler out of sheer suspicion.
So why did she scream 'took you long enough to figure it out Battler' at the end when she shot Battler?
As for your blue truth, Eva got the family ring which is only given when you solve the Epitaph. This is confirmed by Ange.
Because he loves his wife? Suspicion does not prove guilt. Lacking an alibi also does not provide guilt, as shown in ep 5 with Natsuhi.
Didn't say anything about her and Hideyoshi not being accomplices. It could have been that she never met Beatrice personally. It could have been a call, the same as Natsuhi in EP 5. They might have helped in the 1st twilight, but she got cold feet after Hideyoshi was murdered. Having been contacted only by phone, she could have been suspecting Battler since then.
>>which just leaves the Yasu culprit.
>No, it just means it could be anyone but Eva. You think it only leaves one person and that is false.
>>she might have shot Battler out of sheer suspicion.
>So why did she scream 'took you long enough to figure it out Battler' at the end when she shot Battler?
>As for your blue truth, Eva got the family ring which is only given when you solve the Epitaph. This is confirmed by Ange.
Meant for >>136126044
Would it have been possible for Yasu to not realize that the epitaph had been solved until later? Nothing in read says that Yasu is omniscient, and he might have continued the murders. The vision of Beatrice may have just been a personification of the gold and title that Eva got.
>Eva got the family ring which is only given when you solve the Epitaph. This is confirmed by Ange.
You got me there, however did Eva show the ring to the family in EP3? I honestly forgot.
I guess she could have solved the epitaph after she shot Battler. She found the Kuwadorian's secret passage, which could mean that she solved the epitaph, but not before the murders began.
>No, it just means it could be anyone but Eva. You think it only leaves one person and that is false.
When I said that Yasu was the culprit, I was talking about Nanjo's murder. It wasn't Battler, it wasn't Eva and it wasn't Jessica, and conveniently Kanon "revives" during that moment.
>So why did she scream 'took you long enough to figure it out Battler' at the end when she shot Battler?
Point taken. To change my theory, she might have been the one behind Rudolph and Kyrie's deaths. She might have thought that all the members of Battler's family were involved in the murders. When she said "Took you long enough", she might have been referring just about them.
Man I'm enjoying this a lot, I personally don't like Eva, but it's hard to pin her as someone who would kill her husband and son.
Nothing I've read says that Yasu wasn't keeping an eye on the Guest House where every single family member was at. Why does Yasu have to be omniscient? Are you telling me she couldn't have noticed Eva and Rosa going to the Church and then going to the underground base to find the gold? Are you ignoring again that everyone was in a small location? Devil proof that Yasu did see Eva and Rosa leave the Guest House.
You are again trying to weasel out of the red by saying that ignorance of the Epitaph being solved removes the red. The red is absolute. Solve the Epitaph and the red confirms that murders stop.
>The vision of Beatrice may have just been a personification of the gold and title that Eva got.
Good try but this vision happened outside of the gold room. The vision of Beatrice only happens in the presence of gold, such as in ep 2 and arguably in ep 7 tea party.
It never said in red that all murders stop with the epitaph being solved. Beato said that to Battler in meta, and course said so in the letter, but she never confirmed it in red. It could have been possible that Yasu didn't expect them to solve the epitaph and was therefore focused on something else. After all, in his mind the chances are a quadrillion to one.
>however did Eva show the ring to the family in EP3?
I don't think she did, but she did give it to Ange and could have only gotten it after solving the Epitaph and meeting Beatrice after solving it. Of course, she could have met Beatrice after the events, however the meta suggests that she met Beatrice almost immediately after solving the Epitaph and was given the ring.
>conveniently Kanon "revives" during that moment.
convenient or not, it does not prove it was Kanon either or that Kanon isn't dead and that he isn't a hallucination. Again, try to think of someone else. There is a loophole in the red to solve this problem that does not involve Eva, Battler, Jessica or Beatrice.
>she might have been the one behind Rudolph and Kyrie's deaths.
Perhaps, perhaps not. The manga gives the whimsical answer that Eva killed Rudolf and Kyrie and then, conveniently, Kyrie used her last of her strength to kill Hideyoshi, not Eva because facts fitting theories. It can be confirmed that Eva killed Krauss and Natsuhi however since Eva was the one handling their drinks. As to how Natsuhi and Krauss ended up hanging, that's up to you to figure out.
Beatrice keeps her promises. That is stated in red and the promise that she will stop killing people is a promise said in red. Oh, sure, you can try to bend the red here and say that she meant another promise or some bullshit, but then you wouldn't be trusting the author, would you?
You were my date last night, why the fuck are you still here
When she says "I" she is, as per usual, only referring to Beatrice, not Kanon and Shannon. That aligns perfectly with the author's intentions, as Kanon and Shannon don't make the same promise. That doesn't stop her from being ignorant of the state of the epitaph, or being Kanon/Shannon at the time.
I want to back up what this guys is saying by adding that, as said earlier in this thread, the red has previously addressed Kanon and Shannon as separate "entities", considering Kanon was confirmed as dead in episode 2 while Yasu was still alive.
That's silly, Erika is an intellectual rapist, not an actual rapist. She's the one who wants to be dominated physically.
Just like Kyrie.
You're faltering. Meta-Beatrice is the collective of all Beatrice, as stated by Bernkastel. Doing the promise refers to all versions of Beatrice, including Kanon and Shanon. Thus, when she makes that promise, it also extends to Shannon and Kanon, unless proven otherwise.
The *I* does not refer solely to the 'persona' but to all Beatrice and their iteration. Pieces on the gameboard are not allowed the make red truths.
>implying you weren't the one who asked to take things slowly but Erika speeded things along, begging you to dominate her
Can you really blame the girl?
That does not equate, the red only states the death of Kanon, its implication are subjective and are not proof. Twisting facts to suit theories.
I'm not so sure I'd call interpreting the red differently as someone else "twisting facts". All that was said in red is "Kanon was killed in this room", how you interpret that is ultimately up to you but that doesn't mean you're twisting it.
I'd love to see an answer that doesn't "twist facts to suit theories".
Not him, but I am guessing that he might believe that Gohda is the culprit. It is true that Gohda was kind of envious of the one winged servants who could go into Kinzo's study. Nanjo however didn't bear the crest, but still got to go in(Not technically a servant, but still). Considering that the possibilities usually involve Kanon/Shannon faking their death, it is not out of the question for Gohda to have done the same thing, went into the mansion and killed Nanjo, and then offed himself by the time Gohda's death was declared in red.
Nevermind, I am retarded. Gohda being the culprit would require as much of a "Twist" of the red truth as Yasu murdering Nanjo. Both could be equally likely, especially as Bernkastel only refers to Beatrice after her "Death", but by his definition that likeliness is nill.
I want to attend a tea party with Dlanor and then help her purge disgusting witches.
>all these fags debating over objective truth
>gremlins in tvs shit and derp how do you know have a heart
>we're just as bad as if we tell the delusional the cold hard truth even if hurts their fweelings baaawwww
This is why philosophy is pure junk
You do realize that many important philosophers have attempted to prove the existence of God, right?
>philosophy is pure junk
Because you have never started thinking, you close your mind off from certain possibilities for some reason, you just flat out discredit all of them as "idiotic", because you don't question your own beliefs.
Really, Philosophy detractors are much like Atheists and zealously religious people in that they don't think about what they believe.
Yeah, already read it. It was meh. That SoL one is ridiculously good along with http://exhentai.org/g/532599/5e434d31e5/ which has a few things I saved from it in Umineko threads.
You're going to be raped by a thousand cats tonight.
He really does but it's the perfect amount of huge tits, lot like COW TITS levels of huge, the right amount and not too much.
And he still makes perfect lolis as well.
The man is just great on the tits spectrum.
isn't this series popular in moonland? why aren't there many quality doujins for this. it's all disgusting yuri and futa. i can barely find anything fappable even for the slut sisters of purgatory.
japan has failed me.
or maybe ufotable needs to stop sucking nasu's cock and come to the golden land so we can get more shit.
Also, I wonder if it's a joke. Lucia in Rewrite had ridiculously large breast. She easily beat the competition with the size of her breast and I wonder if it was intentional or played for laughs.
Many Umineko and Higurashi doujins are unscanned. /jp/ says that a ridiculous amount never gets scanned and they have no idea why.
> maybe ufotable needs to stop sucking nasu's cock and come to the golden land so we can get more shit.
Pls no more anime adaptions. The terrible DEEN one already made the fanbase multitudes worse. I can't imagine what an ufotable adaptation would do to the fanbase at this point considering how popular they are now. They might not even do that bad of a job but in my opinion Umineko is a work thats best in the VN medium. The manga is ok too of course.
I never want to hear the phrase "I personally wouldn't mind another DEEN adaptation of (anything)".
This is my first time on this site and I found a Ryukishi07 thread. I expected loads of weird shit, but I found my fanbase instantly, don't know if that is a good thing or not.
My opinion is, the umineko anime leaves alot to be desired, seriously, I think if they took from the manga (Mainly in Kei Natsumi's style considering they seem to be a favourite for the manga series) that'd make a new anime adaptation viable. I haven't been able to play the VN's personally but I watch online walkthroughs if that at all counts. For content, the VN's are definitely better but for giving more scenery and more to play with in your mind, I like the manga's.
Higurashi, I really loved the anime, but I found the manga's lacking a bit. The anime had alot more content. Once again, I haven't played the VN personally but I have watched playthroughs, and once again there is more content.
I haven't fully finished Umineko yet, I'm staying updated with the manga by buying it. I don't tend to do that as I read most manga's online, I only buy it after I read it and found it worth my money, if they even have it in my country so I'm gonna avoid all spoilers.
This was my first ever comment. Feel free to call me a noob or what not, I'm just sharing my when they cry fan opinion with you all.
As for Erika asking me out, wouldn't trust it, she'd only do it to make herself worthy as a pawn. Plus, Lamba may get pissed!
Not if it is off figure three quarters of the time. UFOTable could produce something high quality, but it would just be the Ciff's notes if it tries to fit everything in two cours.
>Don't you want to see Erika's deformed face being DEENformed?
That'd be hilarious but I'd rather it not happen at all. Dumb reaction images would just be the silver lining to a shitty adaptation.
You're lucky seacats is your intro to /a/ because we're probably one of the more accepting communities in /a/.
I'd say mature but I'm sure I'll get 20 fedora replies
Enjoy your stay and don't ask stupid questions.
Also familiarize yourself with our culture. You might spoil yourself if you stay in here though, so optimally come back after you've finished reading