Recently, I finished watching this, and just now I finished End of Evangelion. Do you guys still do threads where people who just finished it come in and ask what the fuck just happened? I feel like I understood, like, 25% of what went down in that.
I could tell it was pretty ambitious, but overall I'm left a little baffled. It seems to me like Anno used a lot of mythological/psychological terms pretty loosely and kind of assumed that his audience would a) know what they were in the first place and b) understood the unorthodox ways in which he was using them. Ditto for the symbolism but I'm frankly not certain that part of all of that had any particular significance.
>>135913969 I wouldn't describe the symbolism as "simplistic," but in any case there's nothing wrong with simplistic symbolism. What does bug me is the doubt that much of what I think was symbolism meant anything at all.
>>135914065 >Do you guys still do threads where people who just finished it come in and ask what the fuck just happened? It's been a while since I've seen those, I guess people just stopped caring. We had a few big threads after new year but that's about it
>>135914065 P.S.: Apparently there are new movies that are still coming out every once in a while? And they're all titled "You Can (Not) Something or Another" and so on? Are those just continued rehashes of the ending sequence or something?
>>135914110 I mean, I'm tempted, especially because I never read any of them (didn't want to spoil things for myself), but I somehow get the feeling that moderators might not have cared for having so many iterations of the same thread and I'd rather not run afoul of any unwritten rules.
>>135914176 >Were they needed to summon the third impact? They were to use their replica Lance of Longinus's with Unit 01 to start 3rd impact, yes. It just so happened that Unit 01 managed to rip it back from the moon though. >Why was Gendo trying to fuse Adam with Lilith. To cause 3rd impact, control Instrumentality, and reunite with Yui. >What happens when the two seeds merge? 3rd impact and Instrumentality >Why exactly were the Angels attacking Tokyo 3 specifically? To merge with Adam. >What happens if an Angel merges with Adam. >What happens if an Angel merges with Lilith? The angels begin 3rd impact and control Instrumentality in their image, which would wipe the earth of all humans and recreate it as a planet for Angels.
>>135914176 Yeah. I'm tempted to rewatch it now that I know how it ends. Maybe that'll help me understand it.
It's funny, people told me that End of Evangelion would make everything made sense, but I think that the original ending made a bit more sense. That's only because I'd gleaned a little bit about what the Instrumentality Project was supposed to be beforehand, though.
>>135914282 I'm not really sure why you think I sound pretentious, or why you thought I liked the series. I think I'm still working that out. I liked the buildup, I think, because it felt like they were building up some serious conspiracy stuff with SEELE, but it's hard to say what I think of it know that I've seen the payoff.
What did SEELE stand for, anyway? The name, I mean.
Evangelion is good but it is literally the definition of pretentious. Anno made a lot of decisions based on looking and sounding cool or sophisticated. Now that isn't to say that it completely lacks depth it just isn't nearly as deep as it appears to be, it's still a solid as fuck show and the fight sequences are badass
>>135914610 >>135913408 Y'know, I was kind of interested going into this on seeing which one I'd prefer, but Rei is seriously a robot and Asuka is seriously messed up
the short-haired girl in Central Control was pretty darn cute, though. Shame she apparently has the hots for the computer scientist(I think?) but I guess that means she has good taste 'cause she's cute too
>>135917506 It went by really fast. I mean, Shinji was practically slobbering before he even knew the guy's name. They only knew each other, what, a whole day? Or did time pass unmentioned during that episode, so they knew each other for more like a week? >>135917545 I mean, yeah, but it felt like it kinda came out of nowhere. Previously the series had really only mentioned the sexual tension between Shinji and members of the female cast, and then we get this bombshell. It was definitely weird.
I'd think of it as a Freudian thing because of Shinji's daddy issues, but the abruptness of it still throws me for a loop.
>>135917448 Kaworu was his waifu; someone who loves him unconditional; someone who can't exist. His death and EoE was basiclly Shinji coming to terms with the fact that pain is part of life and relationships and if he would run away from it, he would have to isolate himself from everyone else, just like his father did. In the end you see him with Asuka. They both hurt each other to keep distance through out the show, but in the end accepted each other. Probably not out of love but because they realized that they needed each other. You could say the whole show was about hikkis who are afraid to get hurt and give up on the concept of human interaction. At least thats how I saw it.
The reason why Karowu was a guy, was probably because Anno lusts for Ikuhara's dick and Ikuhara lusts generaly for homo lust.
>>135914373 >it just isn't nearly as deep as it appears to be
I think Eva uses pretense to get at deeper things through juxaposition between dialogue and images like artifice and reality, which is at its most obvious during the finale. I love its style and it makes use of the medium by highlighting animation's unreality that ties into its theme of escapism and criticism of otaku and anime.
Eva is in my top 10 despite a number of shortcomings.
Oh, yeah, another question from somebody who just watched EoE: Towards the end, it looked like a bunch of the text that flashed onscreen was actually reviews of Evangelion. I paused and slow-mo'd it a bunch but there were only ever glimpses of it anyway, and it was only partially translated.
What exactly the fuck was that all about? That I haven't got the slightest idea about, honestly. The whole live action vignette was pretty confusing to me but that was the most stand-out weird of it all.
>>135915099 Checked Also I agree. I wouldn't change those last few seconds for anything. But I do think the non-fans don't get it, not because they're not smart enough but more because they choose to be close-minded
>>135913233 there was a doujin group who did a better ending to eva than eva did...
eva in all honesty was well known, but oh god do i find it insufferable to sit through again...
rahxephon was so much better in watchability and painfull scenes...
in all seriousness, i can only think of 3 anime i would rather watch eva over,
ikkitousen, i despise fate as a polt device to be taken seriously. Tenjho Tenge, just to show how bad a bad guy is that we don't even know he brings out rape, and that rubbed me the wrong way, i cant remember if there is a fate aspect in this anime too and escaflowne, seriously fuck episode 17, and fuck the fate manipulation bullshit, it took what could have been my second favorite mecha anime and made it the one that i wish i never had the misfortune of sitting through
i would litteraly rather watch god damn near anything else i have ever seen than that escaflowne ever again... it pisses me off every fucking time i think of it.
>>135915099 >Nothing's really come close to the feeling I had when the screen went black after "kimochi warui." You know, it's interesting, but I just rewatched those last couple seconds on youtube, and the translation was different. On the version I downloaded, translated by Commie, the last words were translated as "how disgusting," but somebody in the comments on Youtube said a rough translation was more along the lines of "I feel disgusted/nauseated/uncomfortable." Obviously, that's kind of important. So which is it, or are neither correct?
>>135913969 Eh, I feel like it does some things brilliantly, but some things feel like Anno was trying way too hard. I initially hated the show but loved "End of", which made me appreciate the show a bit more. I love how ambitious it was but I'm actually in the middle of watching the 1.11 movie and I'm starting to think End of Evangelion is the best thing to come out of the series. Someone convince me otherwise?
>>135921900 >>135922052 >>135922229 I'm pretty aware of what translation consists of, which is why I'd like to know a little more about how they got this translation. >the wording is different, but the meaning is the same The English meanings of the phrases are different, which is why I want to know more information regarding how people came to those conclusions while translating. Is that so unreasonable?
>>135921843 That's not even half of the english synonyms. Context is usually more helpful in cases where the context isn't gently stroking an attempted murderer's cheek at the end of the world until he breaks down crying.
>>135922795 >Context is usually more helpful in cases where the context isn't gently stroking an attempted murderer's cheek at the end of the world until he breaks down crying. Uh... yep. That's why I'm asking. Actually, hell, why was he trying to kill her? She was already pretty damn nonresponsive.
>>135922357 Read my post, I did say that after watching the movie I did appreciate the show a bit more, but maybe that was a little vague. Honestly I went into Eva as blind as I could be except for the knowledge that it was "one of the greatest anime of all time". I had no clue what to expect throughout or what they show was trying to do(granted I do tend to over-analyze media and was getting a bad headache as I tried to marathon the show, neither of which helped) One of the best aspects of the show was its psychological aspects and character interactions, but I think the show got ahead of itself a bit and occasionally came off as pretentious and confusing, which really frustrated me, knowing that the show had so much more potential and could be great when it wanted to. The ending really pissed me off but after deciding to give the movie I try I felt incredibly satisfied and I share the same sentiment towards it as >>135915099 in it being at least one of my favorite conclusions to anything ever. Even though it got very confusing around the middle, it felt a lot more coherent at the end in weird sort of way. Something about that last scene just felt like the perfect way to end it.
If something as great as End of could come from this franchise I'm curious to see if anything else that awesome has come out since. But I guess it is all a matter of opinion in the end.
>>135923378 Nothing really lives up to EoE. I think a few episodes of the series itself do, 16 and 19 being my personal favorites, but none of the Rebuild movies get anywhere near EoE in effect or quality.
>>135923556 Yeah I remember liking the show a little more closer to end due to them going into more psychological stuff, and then feeling very disappointed with the last two episodes. Too bad they weren't able to top EoE but at least we still have it and, imo, it does make the show look much better when you pair the two.
>>135913969 While I think that is true to an extent, it is not important. The symbolism doesn't mean anything but it doesn't have to. The Judeo-Christian imagery serves no purpose other than a theme is the apocalypse. It's just a stylistic choice and that's fine. I think Evangelion is stronger than 99% of anime based on the characters alone. They are very well done in their own was and often brutally and uncomfortably honest. They are weak, they are troubled, they are actually humanlike.
At the end of the day, Evangelion isn't about giant robots or the apocalypse. It's about people and how they relate to each other and how they hurt each other.
I think it's kind of hard for normies to actually understand the emotional potency and honesty of Evangelion. Full disclosure, I suffered for a long time with PTSD and social anxiety--and received therapy, and I could relate a lot to Shinji (and by extension his father). I saw a lot of myself in him--namely is feelings of worthlessness and intense fear of being hurt and rejection that made him pull away from others.
I hate when people write Shinji off as a wuss and a bad character. Like what do you people want, another moe dipshit girl? A silent lone wolf anti-hero? Some other shitty Mary Sue cardboard cutout anime character?
I actually think he was pretty strong. Stronger than I would have been in his situation.
>>135913969 I will also add that the fanservice was largely self aware and was in a sense a kind of parody. This series can fuck with you in very strange ways. The campy "monster of the week" arc, at first maddening in its lightheartedness--especially coming off the first few episodes and the Ramiel fight, get a pretty jarring and emotionally taxing significance in retrospect after Asuka's unraveling. It reall served to underscore the tragedy of that as well as the veneer under which Asuka operated.
>>135923855 >I hate when people write Shinji off as a wuss and a bad character.
Fuck yes. Too many people were expecting him to "nut up" around the end of the series but that's not what the show's about. Shinji reminded me of myself as well, to somewhat of an uncomfortable degree actually, but that definitely added to my experience in a way. I really hate this sense of superiority I've seen some Eva fans display, but really it seems some people just cant handle seeing something too outside of their comfort zone without dismissing it.
>>135924626 He does get the proper shonen hero scene where he leaves and comes back fired up with refreshed conviction. Since it's Eva he's punished for it and the show keeps going past the false climax while everything turns sour for him.
>>135913969 Not sure I would go that far, I think its kinda good with the knowledge that writer was going nuts, Pseudo-intellectual shit aside (because I am not discounting it has that) I would say the rebuild series or even just the end and rebirth of Eva is worse when fanservice.
Have to say, was kinda interesting when it came to the original ending with the stor boards vs "hey shinji, look at all this young mind destroying shit." Not saying there is nothing wrong with it, just maybe a 7/10 but only when you have context of the creator and how Gainax put them over a barrel. Not to mention without Eva being as depressing as shit we got FLCL.
>>135914356 >>Why exactly were the Angels attacking Tokyo 3 specifically? >To merge with Adam Nope, they were after Lilith as well This is proved by the first angels who attacked Tokyo-3 before Gendo got his hands on the adam embryo So impact could be initiated if an angel merged with either Adam or Lilith >They were to use their replica Lance of Longinus's with Unit 01 to start 3rd impact, yes. It just so happened that Unit 01 managed to rip it back from the moon though. >They were to use their replica Lance of Longinus's with Unit 01 to start 3rd impact, yes. It just so happened that Unit 01 managed to rip it back from the moon though. But didn't Instrumentality start when Gendo merged Adam's embryo embedded in his hand (in whom he also salvaged Adam's soul from Kaworu) inside Rei (who had Lilith's soul) and then Rei merged with Lilith's body? I think Anno should've fucking explained this shit clearly
I think the best scene in EoE is the live action sequence, hands down Especially the part where they show the audience sitting for Death and Rebirth screening. That was pretty fucking surreal Prety fucking brilliant how he subtly criticized the otaku culture
>>135923314 At least you're capable of admitting this. I've seen so many fans act like there's some obvious explanation for everything and everyone who disagrees is just not attentive enough to get it.
>>135913233 To be honest, I like the plot because pseudo-intellectual plots are stupid but always fun, but the MC is still so cringy that I would punch him and tell him to act like a man if I met him in real life. I hate his guts.
It was the first that deconstructed a popular genre to (sadly) satirize about a subculture, many others followed its steps after, but no one tried something similar before, though someone was very dramatic too.
The perfect anime will be the adaptatin of Battle Angel Alita, possibly by Madhouse.
>>135913233 I agree with other anons that it is fucking pretentious at times. But having just rewatched EoE i get the core message behind it, that running away and hiding isn't going to change anything and that to progress and evolve you need to stand up and do something, even if you make a mistake cause you can learn from that mistake. A very old message but still.
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