We all know that's a troll by now, but the real quote
>You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, ‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life. If you don’t spend time watching real people, you can’t do this, because you’ve never seen it. Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves. Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans. And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!
Do you agree or disagree with his opinion? Are anime creators making idealized versions of women, or unrealistic ones?
Has anime become too self-referential and disconnected from the 'real world'?
Is this why we haven't had any new Miyazakis or Cowboy Bebops, or Ghost In The Shells?
Probably. It's a cycle.
>Creator makes characters based off real people, but with certain traits emphasized.
>Fan of that series creates characters based off them, but with certain traits emphasized.
>You are now so far removed from how real people act that you might as well just say they're aliens.
I think he's right but I don't think that's a problem.
If "anime writing" was the only writing that existed in the world when it came to fiction then it would matter.
But its not, anime is niche so it being different is actually a positive thing.
>Is this why we haven't had any new Miyazakis or Cowboy Bebops, or Ghost In The Shells?
We had plenty of those and then some better.
Face it, you're just a superficial idiot who's only bothered by how some drawings look compared to others, and nothing else. Like all normalfags, you get triggered by absolute beauty, especially of the female form, and proceed to shit on anything featuring them no matter how good they actually are.
Fuck you, and sage.
The best way to make any characters feel more real is to make them go though everyday life in the story.
But murrican normalfags hate SOL especially.
So basically the argument doesn't hold for peoples mad on anime. Especially when they when more "Cowboy Bebops, or Ghost In The Shells"
If I wanted to watch real people, I'd go outside more often. I watch anime PRECISELY because it's not like real people.
This guy is mad because anime is not cartoon soap operas?
Well go fuck yourself then m8.
>hurr if I wanted real people I'd go outside
First, real people don't look like 2D.
Secondly, why the fuck do you assume if he said "Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life" he implies that they should act exactly like the average person you see in every day life? It's not impossible to just make a believable characters with much less bad traits than the average person, and chances that you'd meet such a person irl "if you'd just go outside" are very low.
Look at Saekano for example, it has a character that doesn't fit any archetype and people with taste are all over her, she's basically the reason the LN is so popular. And guess what, people like her because she acts natural and more "real-life like" unlike the rest of the cast.
Kumiko in Hibike and Aoi in Shirobako also fit that example, so I don't understand why'd you completely disagree with his opinion.
>The best way to make any characters feel more real is to make them go though everyday life in the story
>best character development is SOL
What a load of bullshit. Most SOLs are the worst kind of garbage regarding realistic characters. The quantity of shit anime taking place in a high school is already beyond madness, but people like you will eat it up no matter what instead of wanting well done settings with characters older than 15 years old
Have you never lurked Saekano threads?
I''m against the opinion that all girs in the anime shouldn't resemble real life behavior at all.
>And Megumi is a Rei clone.
>Have you never lurked Saekano threads?
Never. Is she popular in Japan too?
And that anon is right, she is pretty much a Rei clone. She is stoic, quiet, very boring. She shouldnt exist really, she brings nothing to the table.
>She is stoic, quiet, very boring.
I don't see it, she just doesn't express her emotions in your typical, stereotypical overreacted way. Did you miss all her witty remarks?
>She shouldnt exist really, she brings nothing to the table.
She's the MC motivation and she helps a lot with the game, also helped the MC to get over his depression. She's basically a fembro to him.
You mean unfunny and annoying remarks. I didnt hate her but she felt like a tertiary character at best, I still think she shouldnt exist and only makes the story worse overall. Oh Im sure she will get some development but I dont even care because she is fucking boring.
Thanks for the info though Ill stay away from the /a/ threads forever.
>Do you agree or disagree with his opinion?
Agree in terms of animation skills.
>Are anime creators making idealized versions of women, or unrealistic ones?
For me this question is kinda off to the core idea on what Miyazaki wants to point out. The main idea was that most animator nowadays don't observe real movement, interaction, reaction, etc. of humans, animals, objects, etc.
Without her the story would be a typical generic LN drama. Not saying Saekano is a masterpiece, but it's still better than most of the LNs we get.
Who's you favorite chracter then?
But it is a typical generic LN drama, she adds nothing to the story thats my point, again she doesnt bother me because most of the time I forget she even exists or that she is in the room.
I like the other girls because even though they are stereotypes they feel well made and not too over the top.
And If you must know my favorite girl is Michiru.
How does she add nothing to the story if she's the whole reason why the MC decided to make a game and she's his motivation throughout the whole thing?
I don't want to start an argument that every Saekano thread has, but saying Megumi is a nonexistent chracter is plain stupid
Sure she is but any of the other girls could have inspire him just as much, and that has nothing to do with her lack of personality anyways.
She could be the source of inspiration AND be an actual character, wouldnt that be great.
ok, but I mean, it's even in the synopsis
>Tomoya Aki is an uber otaku who works part-time to earn money to buy merchandise, but one day while delivering papers he meets a beautiful girl in an event that will change his life forever. A month later, he finds out that the girl is actually his classmate, Megumi Kato, and she's going to be the main heroine of the game he's making. The only problem? She's utterly forgettable.
he's right though in what he says, though I don't see any problem of anime being a medium for otaku. He's a humanist and believes in the power of art to change the 'human heart', he believes he can change society with his works, and it's noble, but you don't have to share his views.
That's just how the visual arts always works. It comes down to the difference between drawing with reference to reality and drawing with reference to understood "correct" ways of drawing things. That's why so many Renaissance painters drew women who looked like men, for instance: they learned to draw male arms, legs, and anatomy, and in many cases (Michelangelo comes to mind) just had to adjust the secondary characteristics of otherwise "male" figures they were drawing to try to make them appear female.
Revolutions in the arts have frequently taken the form of artists breaking from inherited "correct" ways of drawing things and making original styles, Much of the time this is a matter of drawing from real life instead of drawing "from memory."
That's always going to be true in the anime industry. Artists will draw from memory. They don't have a group of schoolgirls in the studio modeling for them and playing out all the scenes according to storyboards. But good artists base their memory on the memory of real things, and will do independent study in situations where they don't feel like they can faithfully reproduce something.
But, of course, humans are everywhere. You can't really go very long without looking at people. Do you think that animator on the train on his way to work isn't sharing a lot of his breathing space with other men and women? Do you think he's not looking at them and thinking about their poses? Some might not do this. It's entirely plausible that lots of them do, though.
But there are conventions of the art style that, though they are based in reality, are not realistic. Tsuri and tare eye styles, for instance, are derived from cats and dogs, but used to distinguish people. Unnatural hair colours are used to add visual distinction to certain characters. I don't think these are necessarily a bad thing. I think the Japanese generally distinguish themselves by favouring stylization over realism.
maybe he is talking beyond the animation, he has said that he bases characters on real people when writing them. a lot of anime is about ridiculous characters in ridiculous scenarios
>Also Michelangelo knew how to draw women moron.
Picture is what I had in mind. Leonardo was worse for it, though. There's this painting he drew of a woman with a marmot where the marmot has this big beefy bicep because he thought that's how you were supposed to draw arms.
Titian, on the other hand, knew how to draw women, and knew how to paint soft-looking flesh.
Example of Titian's way of painting women that is not derived from drawing men
Another Michelangelo depiction of a woman.
And what's wrong with that image?
Stop being a fuckign moron. Women weren't retarded blubs of fat like now back then.
And here's Leonardo. The upper body on the woman is fine but her face and hands are both pretty masculine.
It was an ermine, not a marmot. But that's not how the little creature's arm ought to look.
These are examples of people drawing according to "rules" of drawing rather than basing their art in reality. Even though he probably had a model in front of him that he was drawing, he still had to depict her in a flattering way (because of how things happened) and maybe the creature wasn't sitting still enough for him to look at it properly. So he decided, what this animal needs is a big beefy bicep.
>What's wrong with that image?
I can't really fix your vision over the internet, but she's basically a man with tits. I'm not the only person who has this opinion about Michelangelo either, this is a commonly held attitude among art historians.
I'm not saying one style is better than the other, I'm saying one is based on recollection of the rules of drawing, and the other is based on a study of reality. Leonardo and Michelangelo both studied male anatomy intensely and just adjusted this study in their depiction of women. But they kept it there so you still see the broad shoulders (in Michelangelo's case) and the enormous hands (in Leonardo's case), even when they were drawing live models, because their attitude about "how hands look" was interfering with with what they were seeing.
John Ruskin wrote a good essay series on this called "Modern Painters."
To bring this back to anime, what I'm saying is that Miyazaki's statement that people should draw from reality rather than from ideals has basis in history.
Here's a picture of an ermine. As you can see it doesn't have human musculature on its arm. Leonardo added that because he thought it conformed to the rules of drawing.
/a/ should crowdfund a billion dollar ressurection kickstarter so we can bring Kon back and make anime great again
Look at shoulders, clearly not a man. You never seen a working womans hands before? You must be really sheltered kid.
Also yes animals have muscles too.
>she's basically a man with tits
It's starting to feel like all you retarded art types that are so fucking intelligent when you have read one book about it are actually morons.
> broad shoulders and the enormous hands
Yes, women are similar looking to men the similarities are not like house cat and a tiger. You are absolutely far beyond gone to the retarded side.
If I wanted realistic women I'd go outside
People view anime because they "hate" or "dislike" real people and want to go into a medium where they can feel comfortable lying to themselves that things are ok if I just enjoy anime and manga.
As he said, not much of anime is taken from real life and people will defend that saying it isn't a bad thing. Which is downright retarded because EVERY drawing medium HAS to take aspects from real life in some way shape or form for the person to even comprehend it. Anime does more harm than good to people who would rather choose to not go outside or be productive in order to live a otaku or close to it lifestyle.
That's what I feel he means, people are becoming too detached from reality when it comes to anime and in turn when they HAVE to go outside (cause you know, in order to have that "great" anime/manga lifestyle you have to go outside some time) they feel threatened, awkward, weird, insecure and many other fucked up traits.
There's a reason Western Comic isn't seen as better than Anime/Manga. That's because Comic puts a lot of real world issues into it and people who are pussy just don't want to deal with it. Sure its great to watch a show for nothing more than a stupid non-realistic plot. That's not the issue, the issue is that 90% or more of the damn Anime/Manga medium IS this stupid shit and it mentally drains the human being consuming it.
Case and Point, sometimes even grown men on /a/ don't want to accept how much of a weirdo they're becoming from what many will claim as an "hobby".
And then you started to talk about face. I'm sorry I got confused with your retarded logic. Also like I said face (never seen a woman without makeup?) and hands (never seen working woman?) are absolutely perfect.
>Has anime become too self-referential and disconnected from the 'real world'?
Well, sure, but I don't think it's necessarily an issue that's restricted to female characters.
Is it going to be reflected in them? Sure, the female characters are going to be on the merchandise, they're going to be in the PVs and you're going to want to be hiring popular VAs just to cover all your bases, so they're going to be designed to certain tastes and they're going to be at the vanguard of promotion.
There's that thread about the Daicon IV movie in the catalog.
The argument there is about methods of animation.
But if you look at that, look at the shit in that movie. You've got the whole thing set to Electric Light Orchestra. Is there Japanese shit in it? Sure, the meat of the thing opens up with her fighting Zakus, then she runs past a bunch of kaiju to get into a duel with Darth Vader before brawling with a Xenomorph and a Transformer. Later she surfs by western superheroes of note. And that's not scratching the surface.
Is it just a bunch of visual shoutouts, sure, but you can tell that the guys that made it were worldly, were versed in multiple mediums of fiction and could draw inspiration from that.
I'm not saying westaboo mangaka are going to be making the best stuff by default, but by virtue of being exposed to more works, they have a larger pool of reference to draw from.
And that I think is the lynchpin of the stuff vets like Miyazaki and Anno talk about. That the medium and market is just dominated and crippled by this self-amplifying cycle of people only interested in a narrow field of subject matter, so you end up with a billion LNs that are the exact same plot with the names changed.
>Case and Point, sometimes even grown men on /a/ don't want to accept how much of a weirdo they're becoming from what many will claim as an "hobby".
>people are antisocial because they watch anime
Kill yourself, retard. I've always been this way, and started watching anime only when I was 24. Before that I haven't seen a single minute of anime, except Maya the Bee.
>Before that I haven't seen a single minute of anime, except Maya the Bee.
Contradict yourself and then try to make a really fail attempt at retort. You don't think watching more anime will make you worse do you? Probably not, I'm getting a sense you enjoy it which in that case you didn't prove me wrong but instead agreed with me.
I don't think an anime needs to be about exlusively superpowers and fly away from earth to be great.
Simple ones which are about real life and contain real life problems can be great, but they are far less popular than the ones I mentioned due to a simple reason.
We are humans, we want to experience things what we can't in real life due to restricions. We all want to feel powerful, do great things which will probably never achieve in real life.
Young males are the perfect example of this. They have dreams, and they want to dream big. As for adults even if reality sucked their life away, they still love to dream. It's the part of being a human.
It would be boring, shallow as fuck if these these didn't exist.
However "some" people love to cross the line between reality and non-reality and thats were they fuck up.
I hope you realize he was talking about the literal animation, right? Like, drawing/animating characters who move as real people do. He's not talking about how there aren't enough epic deep shows like in the golden age of the nineties. He's also been giving this same fucking spiel for over thirty years.
He made a bunch of children's films that happened to be made with conventional animation. That doesn't make him an authority on Japanese anime.
People inflate the importance of what he says because they think he's one of the legends of the industry, but the thing is his work never had the same level of seriousness you find in modern anime and manga. All of his movies are just a mishmash of fantastical imagery with a story that works itself out in the end "because of magic" rather than being stories of characters being confronted with difficult choices and forming meaningful relationships with one another.
The best of modern anime is the kind of thing Miyazaki has never produced. All he can say authoritatively is that all anime should be like the stuff he made.
Anime might have made me more antisocial. I can't really tell, because I got into it around starting college, so I didn't have parents to pressure me into being social anymore.
Let me put it this way, then.
Miyazaki is speculating about the production of "almost all anime" and the sophistication of the people producing it. However, he himself has never produced one of these works.
You don't think girls like Yui Hirasawa and Ritsu Tanaika exist in real life? How about Osaka from Azumanga? The reason these shows are popular is because they DO resemble real people. If he means visually, then I don't remember any hyper-realistic Studio Ghibli animation. Cartoon characters don't look realistic.
There's nothing someone could say to you that wouldn't result in you just contradicting them with a smug reaction picture, because you've already convinced yourself that "all modern anime is garbage." But anyone who actually watches anime knows that Cowboy Bebop isn't some ascended masterpiece that has never been matched. There's been at least one anime every year since it aired that's been as good as Cowboy Bebop.
I think it's more noticeable depending on the kind of show.
Dialogue heavy shows really do suffer from the whole "Why don't these characters act remotely like real human beings?" thing but in the more over the top and bombastic shows it is either less noticeable or less importance is put on it.
> There's a reason Western Comic isn't seen as better than Anime/Manga
> 90% or more of the damn Anime/Manga medium IS this stupid shit and it mentally drains the human being consuming it.
But 90% of western comic are super heroes fighting against hitler or stalin. Tell me it isnt retarded.
This is still empty Ad hominen. Discuss what he said, not who said it.
If he didn't have produced said content, it still wouldn't invalidate him. Its like saying that to make critics, you need to do better.
Also, Miyazaki IS considered one of the greatest directors and writters of animation, you liking it or not.
>Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.
He is speculating about the motives and dispositions of the people producing anime that he doesn't like. My point is that he can't really speculate about this because he's never been involved in the production of any of this anime. Since he's stating his assumptions as fact, it's perfectly relevant that there is no basis for his opinions.
Actually most moe shit is the equivalent of junky food. Funny enough, people on /a/ are the type that die because eat too much junk food.
Basically /a/ knows that is patethic, but don't care, and would happilly take the entire médium down with them and their shit taste.
>People view anime because they "hate" or "dislike" real people and want to go into a medium where they can feel comfortable lying to themselves that things are ok if I just enjoy anime and manga.
Though I agree with the rest.
How often do you think he's worked with any of the kind of people he's talking about? He's a fucking seventy-year-old movie director, it's not like he's chumming around with new key animators at Gokumi or something.
I work in a shitty cannadian show, and still know, interacted, or worked along plenty of people who work on the "big" cartoons of the West. Its a small communitty, and even more on Japan.
I think Miyazaki is being too harsh here. Sure many studios produce shows about idealized women, but that doesn't negate their creativity or the humanity of the characters. If anything, more studios than ever are making realistically written, interesting female characters.
>That's because Comic puts a lot of real world issues into it
What? Like "mansplaining" and "transmisogyny"? I don't understand why anybody would want that kind of shit in their entertainment, it's like bringing politics at the dinner table, only it's completely one-sided and you're basically being preached at by some fucking mouthbreathing looney with spit flying out of his mouth.
I think if he has such a problem with otaku he should take his oscars, come to america and start making beyonce and lady gaga music videos. Perhaps he could get lucky and draw some kind of backdrop for a reality show.
Of course he's right. It's especially funny when people argue that stuff like lolicon exists in the vacuum and is not inspired by reality, just because it's a weird thing to admit.
>better than anyone on this site.
And that's just the problem. People will believe anything he says at face value because we assume he knows what he's talking about. But anyone who has watched anime in the last ten years knows that what he's saying is full of shit. Anime is full of good, interesting characters that are good precisely because they remind us of real people. Why do you think one slice-of-life show becomes more beloved than the other? Why do you think people love shows like Yuyushiki and Non Non Biyori so much? If it's just the moe art style, then we'd like pretty much every moe SOL as long as the characters looked cute, but that's clearly not the case.
Miyazaki is oversimplifying to the point of being wrong. Plenty of manga and anime are directly based in reality. Plenty of realistic characters exist. And plenty of people enjoy anime and manga because of the human stories that they tell.
>Anime is full of good, interesting characters that are good precisely because they remind us of real people
>Why do you think people love shows like Yuyushiki and Non Non Biyori so much?
Perverts and lonely nerds.
It's bad because the 99% I mentioned are stock, generic, predictable, and absolutely boring to watch. Anime isn't a bad medium, but people who wish every anime was like K-ON are the reason it's is seen as one. In fact, most of them are just meant as jackoff material for neckbeards that have never talked to a human being, so it makes sense.
I noticed it in bakemonogatari, on how nonhuman the characters act.
But the thing is, that people that don't interact with other humans don't even see it because they lack the experience.
Koma-chan doesn't act like a real human being. Her innocence, immaturity and clumsiness is fetishized. Otaku, who are mostly emotionally stunted men, find it arousing and/or cute.
So let's take Non Non Biyori as a good example.
Renge is a young girl growing up in the country without any peers her own age. She spends a lot of her time playing alone in the fields and does things like make friends with animals and grow deeply attached to the wildlife. She's curious and precocious and always asking her older peers to explain things to her. Because of her lack of exposure to kids her own age, her manner of communicating with people around her is a little awkward, and there's a whole episode dedicated to showcasing how sheltered she is compared with people who live in the big city. Lots of people love Renge because she reminds them of real children and behaves the way that kids her age actually act. Plenty of people such as myself love that show because of how it depicts the "sheltered" country life and the ways in which people in small communities interact with one another.
Do you think Renge is an unrealistic character that's not based in observing real people?
I could go on about the other characters in that show, but you'd just tell me they're all tired overused character tropes that don't represent reality, even though the opposite is clearly the case. Not to mention I doubt you've watched it if your comment is sincere and not just a troll.
People will believe anything he says at face value because we assume he knows what he's talking about.
Its not even just him, mlre than ever plenty of people has being saying the same, people who work on the industry. Even /a/ has a suddenly case of good taste and complain about it too sometimes. Are you new here?
Does /a/ have a list of socially realistic anime?
I was always socially detached but I think it's gotten worse since I started watching.
More like it got worse and the best way to escape you've found is anime.
Nah man, I was kind reserved when I started, but now any social situation with more than three people makes me legitimately uncomfortable.
But watching normie shows is fucking boring and generic as well.
>I was always socially detached but I think it's gotten worse since I started watching.
Just be exigent about anime. Remember when you got attracted to a PV or a picture, and later you got dissapointed by the show.
Instead of looking for some anime or manga to watch or read, let the show "finds" you.
>Instead of looking for some anime or manga to watch or read, let the show "finds" you.
That actually makes a lot of sense, some of my favorite shows are ones that I just stumbled upon.
Like boku dake ga inai michi, I had no intention of watching it before one of my steam friends told me it was good, watched the first episode and I haven't been this involved in a show in years.
I'm not the same anon. But you really expect someone to act autistic and make a graph just because someone insulted the generic moe trash that /a/ is always complaining about?
>mlre than ever plenty of people has being saying the same, people who work on the industry.
Most anime are socially realistic.
Realism just means it exists in the world. You think in a world of 7 billion people, there aren't at least a handful who are hyper eccentric?
Forget about Japan for now.
>Characters staring at empty space or walls while quoting Freud and providing convenient information to the person facing the complete opposite direction of them
Unfortunately this sort of thing has just become an anime staple at this point
Simple- they're relatable without either making all the characters either a blank slate for the viewer to self insert as or making them a perfect Mary Sue for people to fawn over.
From your perspective I don't seem to because I don't get my information from edgy atheist articles about how to debate.
And it's Ad Hominem you idiot. There is no such thing as "Hominen" in Latin.
People have just gotten too use to archetypes and can't enjoy a show or a character unless they can pinpoint the exact character type they are within seconds of seeing their design.
>Most anime are socially realistic.
>Realism just means it exists in the world. You think in a world of 7 billion people, there aren't at least a handful who are hyper eccentric?
My god, you would be a shitty writter.
I agree with that.
If the writer of manga and producer of anime actually had any real human interaction, we would be getting anime/manga with better written stories and character.
Whenever I watch some haremshit, the first thing that comes to my mind is "whoever wrote this has never talked to a girl in his life".
Observing real life, real people and real events is the best source of well written character.
Realism is the cancer on every fucking medium. The problem is people who are too obsessed with real life and not being one of those "weird people" who actually care about a medium. Those are the ones who want to shape everything around reality and think that's what makes a good anime, or manga, or book, or movie.
I'm not the one using the term in bad way, you are.
And it's evident by the fact that you couldn't even spell it right until now. One could argue it's a typo on one occasion but after multiple offences, it really shows you lack any knowledge regarding the matter.
I mostly agree. Anime is definitely way too eager to wallow in it's own filth of repetitive cliches. It's gotten to the point where some people get confused when something ISN'T a cliche. A large portion of the industry is unwilling to leave it's tiny comfort zone.
How was my post an Ad Hominem? That would assume your post had an argument, which is an overstatement.
Keep doing the fallacy. And nothing should be assumed to be true. You should always be skeptical about general "truths". Your view that they are garbage is baseless anyway. The only thing you got going for it, is maybe a popular opinion in the internet which shouldn't mean much in reasoning.
Either you argue the point or don't bother arguing at all.
Here, this is a correct example of Ad Hominem. Attack the people and desqualiffy the argument based on that, instead of the content being said. In my opinion it's an example of childish argument, looking for easy validation.
Also, its already on autocorrect.
>spelling it "Ad Hominem" non ironically
Jesus fucking Christ.
>See: every Bones show in the last few years.
No, it's not. Garbage is worse than something good that I've seen before. I'd rather watch a K-On clone, or an NGE clone, or read another Adachi manga about baseball, than Kekkai Sensen or Fractale or something.
J'ai niqué ta mère et ta copine, sale francais comme les soldats Américains avait baiser toutes vos femmes après la guerre. Vos "hommes" manquent de masculinité.
Les francais sont les cocus de royaume animal.
You seems to be the patethic manchild with the lowest common denominator taste, that the industry is aiming for. No surprise you like it.
These people basically drag everything down with their shit taste. Mr.Enter tier autism.
Real kids are mean and demanding but there's none of that because the genre dictates nothing unpleasant ever happens between the characters, only funny or heartwarming moments. What's there of her personality is realistic but it feels idealized as well, as if any bad parts were omitted.
By the way, did anyone actually grow up in isolated countryside or closely know someone who did?
Not with regards to humans.
Emotions are not consistent and don't adhere to some logic. Unless you're looking at the general tendencies. But fiction is more about specific individuals.
>muh childlike wonder and innocence
Fuck you, you old hack. Real children are disgusting. They shit and piss all over everything and then expect you to clean it up. They drool and wipe boogers under furniture. They whine. I've never in my entire life known a little girl that decided to go on a wondrous adventure. All they do is grow up to be sick, sadistic whores who will divorce you for the fun of it and bleed you dry with alimony payment. You're the one who's out of touch.
>. All they do is grow up to be sick, sadistic whores who will divorce you for the fun of it and bleed you dry with alimony payment. You're the one who's out of touch.
I see we have another victim of /pol/ and /r9k/
I sort see where he's coming from. He's probably mainly referring to things like Araragi's toothbrushing scene, which is like it's lifted straight from an ecchi, or Senjougahara suddenly talking about Seme's and Uke's, which doesn't reflect how anyone who isn't Autistic talks.
Right, because /pol/ and /r9k/ hiveminds were the first ones in human history to see female promiscuity as a bad thing.
Women were always seen as leeches who will cheat on you very quickly. Ever since the Mesopotamians, Ancient Greeks and Chinese.
>Celebrity leverages his privileged status to shit on an entire collective of people
>His fans lap it up and agree with it, in a misguided hope that doing so makes them more like him, and therefore, more likely to succeed
>All they do is grow up to be sick, sadistic whores who will divorce you for the fun of it and bleed you dry with alimony payment. You're the one who's out of touch.
It seems someone hurt you badly anon. I hope the wound in your heart heals fast before you derail even further.
It's unhealthy to be so depressed.
Being interested only in yourself isn't a middle ground.
Who is this pseudointellectual? I'm getting actual intellectual quotes from video games not some weird mustache person.
The last decade of anime has been all about glorifying geeks and losers and NEETs, when anime should be encouraging you to go outside
>implying he and Anno aren't right.
>implying that the industry isn'tem full and pandering to otakus.
>implying that otakus doesn't have shit taste and love hugbox, junk food level escapism and bad writting.
>Do you agree or disagree with his opinion? Are anime creators making idealized versions of women, or unrealistic ones?
Do we really have to worry about this? I mean c'mon, if that's it then the next logical step is to ask whether allmagic giant robots and staff realistic or not?
It is storytelling, they can use talking anthropomorphic cubes until they tell us a story.
you are full of shit, anon
>The average vidya character is better written than the average anime/mango character.
You just posted a character from a manga that only /v/irgins like, great job
>people still thinking Berserk is anything but trash
What's happening is part of a phenomenon I wrote about a couple of years ago when I was asked to comment on Kentaro Miura. I went to an Akihabara anime store and bought and read a copy of the "Golden Age." I suffered a great deal in the process. The writing was dreadful; the art was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time the main character fell in the presence of others, he would accidentally fall on a woman and grope her breasts. I began marking on the back of my volume every time this was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the volume several dozen times. I was incredulous. Miura's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that he has no other style of writing.
But when I wrote that on My Anime List, I was denounced. I was told that new anime fans would now read and watch only Berserk, and I was asked whether that wasn't, after all, better than reading nothing at all? If Berserk was what it took to make them pick up anime, wasn't that a good thing?
It is not. "Berserk" will not lead our children on to Masaaki Yuasa's "The Tatami Galaxy" or his "Ping Pong: The Animation" It will not lead them to Satoshi Kon's "Perfect Blue" or Ryūtarō Nakamura's "Serial Experiments Lain" or Hiroshi Nagahama's "Mushishi."
Later I read a lavish, loving review of Berserk by Hiroyuki Imaishi. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these new fans are watching Berserk at 13 or 14, then when they get older they will go on to watch Gurren Lagann." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you watch Berserk, you are, in fact, trained to watch Gurren Lagann.
Honestly, that what's I like about anime. That it is so far removed from reality and that characters are more reminiscent of dreams than cold harsh reality.
Up yours, Miyazaki. If all anime was like he wants it to be, it would suck. Might as well watch live action normie TV shows then.
I've been in a few NNB threads where me and other posters talked about what it's like growing up in the countryside. Obviously not a village a small as Asahigaoka, but in a town small enough that we never locked our doors and you recognized every person you saw throughout the day.
I think you're just uncharitably interpreting him. He clearly wasn't saying it can't be fantastic or dream-like, he was saying it shouldn't be too derivative of other anime, which themselves were derived from some other anime.
maybe the person you hate is yourself anon...
The average animu character is some bitchy beta that gets a harem for some unknown reasons but never manages to do anything with the girls.
Literally shit is better than such a character.
Betas in anime piss me off because when girls come on to them, they go out of their way to be as autistic as humanly possible and fuck it up. It makes me fucking angry to watch, and even more so that the girls like him even though he's an autist beta.
I was talking about MC's.
But now you might be right.
It's a cute retarded girl doing cute retarded things with her cute retard friends while being a stronk independent woman every now and then beating up some betas.
Still better than the average anime character.
"Most" is a far cry from "almost all."
And you can't really argue with people who make generalizations like "most" or "almost all," because any time you provide an example that goes against their claim they will just say "well, that's one of the few exceptions to this generalization I'm making."
>All the "intellectuals" in this thread acting holier than thou because they seek enlightened material instead of this lowest common denominator shit
I hope you fucks realize that no truly intellectual person would go out of their way onto an image board for socially disrupted people to remind them how much smarter and more enlightened they are over the other users.
You aren't smart or deep, you are petty and the only way you can validate yourself is to act like you are above others.
>The best way to make any characters feel more real is to make them go though everyday life in the story.
>But murrican normalfags hate SOL especially.
Most SOL shows are pure ass in terms of making characters feel real.
It goes above and beyond "optimal", they make the worst possible decision every single time. I like characters to not be complete retards.
I don't. It's usually my gf that makes me watch these shows.
Not him but I assume it's because it ruins the character in 99.9999999999999% of the times it's used.
We have there at least somewhat decent character. Sometimes powerful or strong, intelligent, whatever. But then there comes a girl on to them and they become a walking brainless, spineless mongrel. Moments later he fights literally the demon king and shows some courage that can't be found anywhere, but sees girls and becomes betamax. Hell, not even beta. Beta is second. He becomes the omega loser.
The author will undermine the story and character development just to add some retarded fanservice, but hey, we can't have actual pairings and well written love in our medium. The otakus will get mad if their waifushit gets some real love. Nope. We have the MC go full autismo mode and the love confession or attempt of it will be completely forgotten because of reasons.
It's more like
> People get so mad when almost every male MC is awkward and every girl in the school/town/city/universe hits on him for literally no reason because the MC has literally not a single good quality besides "being nice" that one time.
You are 100% right.
Only insecure retards think they are smarter than other people based on the entertainment they consume.
If they had anything resembling standards hey wouldn't be browsing this shithole anyways.
Don't worry mate. I'm the same. Though it's more the predictable cliche that makes me mad.
I fucking hate tsunderes these days. All the shitty ones (like taiga) ruined them for me.
>I don't. It's usually my gf that makes me watch these shows.
Oh what a surprise, the one who hates moe anime and the average show is a normalfag.
Like clockwork. Why are you even on this board if you hate anime so much?
Your word not mine, which goes to show what kind of cancerous fuck you are.
Answer my question, why are you even here if you hate anime so much?
By being an obnoxious cunt who has to remind everyone how much he hates the "lowest common denominator" shit and act holier than thou, you are just as bad as SJWs.
While it might be true that a large amount of anime is created without a basis on real people, that's pretty much intentional.
I don't think it's the case that artists are saying "I want to create realistic characters, but without observing real people." They want to make characters that they like, and if they dislike real people, then why would they make realistic characters?
I would go even further and say that a decent number of artists are plenty capable of creating realistic characters, they choose not to.
>I fucking hate tsunderes these days
Because almost every tsundere nowadays isn't actually a tsundere. They are missing the dere part. It's just retarded tsun tsun.
And the few that are tsun and dere, the anime completely misses the point of what made the character good. The transition from tsun to dere. They completely skip the character development. She's tsun the whole time, MC says something and she's a dere now. In less than 1 minute.
>wah, he was nice to me that one time
>I really hate him, but I love him now!
At least they cut the bullshit out now.
Seeing the 80s 90s generic elf - monster perfect titty girl wasn't better. They were sci fi nerds making cute girls.
Now we get cute, decent girls.
>Now we get cute, decent girls.
>I'm not reminding anyone, just explaining.
And nobody gives a shit, so why keep doing it? You aren't very intelligent if you keep at it when nobody cares.
And there is no need to say "But you clearly care!"
I don't care that you find anime to be garbage most of the time I wont even contest that. It is entertainment and that is all it needs to be.
You become a cunt when you go out of your way to act superior.
>And nobody gives a shit, so why keep doing it?
Someone opened a thread about ti and he responded to the topic, unlike you who is shitposting because he felt called out for liking the lowest common denominator.
Yeah man, you are bringing some really good discussion to the table by angrily proclaiming that beta MC's are shit and anyone who likes it are retarded individuals.
All you are doing is shitpost because most people on here don't give a shit if the entertainment they consume is for the lowest common denominator.
Given all the harems, self-insert MCs, black-and-white morality, and exaggerated expressions currently depicted in anime, I am forced to agree with his views. Anime/Manga/LNs are less appealing, caused by writers who do not wish or are unable to depict realistic characters with real flaws, emotions, and thoughts.
When shows like SAO, Gundam Seed, Accel World, and Mahouka are considered the pinnacle of mainstream anime, then I have to question the judgement of anime writers and their fans. All of it involves a childish understanding of human morality, relationships, and just society in general. It's all self-insert garbage riddled with childish fantasy.
I have never understood the self-insert factor. I cannot self-insert and I don't even understand how people do it, the character is obviously not like me.
I neither like or dislike beta MC's they don't harm most shows I watch and I can still enjoy the shows even with them present.
Not even him, but stop being an autistic fuck.
Go back to some hugbox, people here can have discusions. You seems to be taking it personally for some reason saying "don't judge meeeeeee" when nobody is talking speciphically about you, and no one cares about you.
Be the change you want to see. Start by buying the Blu-Rays of anime you enjoy. Import manga that you like and want more of.
Of course that'll never happen, since no one here actually gives a shit and this is all just an excuse to shitpost.
>Go back to some hugbox, people here can have discusions.
You obviously can't read. You aren't interested in having a discussion either.
When you open up with; "Why do you watch this crap, it is for the lowest common denominator. Why don't you strive for you level of intelligence?" you aren't actually looking for answer as you have already declared your opposition to be idiots for simply enjoying entertainment without needing it to be intellectual.
>they don't harm most shows
But that's wrong.
Almost every show is harmed by beta MC's. Unless the show is actually about the beta's struggle with his betaness, the show is most likely harmed because it will be used to create the "funny" autistic moments for fanservice, derail the character development and drastically slow down the plot progression.
I can't speak for the anon you quoted, but I'm not asking for some alpha male that goes fucking every chick in the universe. I just want some more or less average guy with flaws instead of the average beta MC we're getting.
And I don't have problems with beta characters when it's used as a character defining trait. Wakamoto uses it, I don't mind it. It's in fact the point of the show. It's used to drive the story further, to develop the MC.
Then you switch to the average harem show and you see just how bad the beta shit is. The beta will always ruin the MC's character because in every other scene, he isn't a beta. Just when it's needed to insert some random fanservice or some completely out of place comedy.
>But that's wrong.
I didn't think I had to add in; "It doesn't harm the show FOR ME", but apparently I should have.
You are misunderstanding me completely. I know what I watch is probably the bottomest of the barrel when it comes to literature.
But I don't care, it brings me entertainment. I am very easily appeased and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I don't care that a lot of the jokes and fan service is really cheap and not well thought out, I can enjoy it.
And the best point about it is that I can enjoy this and enjoy better stuff as well.
They look more like pic related. Some of them can be measured in earthquakes per second, some of them have their own gravity well.
I am not the other guy.
But stop being a butthurt faggot, no one is talking about you here. Why you are so insecure that people saying shit about things you like, makes you act like a fagott?
Again, you can't read or you just don't want to understand what I mean.
People can call what I watch shit as much as they like, I can call it shit too.
But when people act holier than thou on fucking 4chan of all places then they really need to leave, not because I can't handle their opinion, but because they are cunts.
If you think normalfag and normie is the same then you truly are a newfag.
Do you really thing it would have been an enrichment to the threads if I, instead of dropping Osomatsu-san after 3 episodes would have spent every Monday with telling everyone that the jokes are shit and they are retards for enjoying the show?
There is nothing wrong with criticism, but there is a problem with your autism if you keep watching a type of show you don't enjoy and yell at it for being what it is.
Except I don't see what anon doing that.
According to the reply chain, he was complaining that anime go out of their way to make the betamax pick up the worst possible coarse of action simply because.
There are 50+ new shows each season, of course there are going to be bad ones. Of course there are going to be cheap cash-ins from some 3rd rate studio, but that doesn't kill the medium.
I don't get why people get so worked up about some bottom of the barrel "battle harem LN-adaptation" not being good or original.
4cuck in general is a 'safe space'. Didn't you know?
Btw it boggles my mind that this shit actually came from Tumblr.
That's what I think. Even though his stories are basically fairy tales the characters are believable. If you're out to make a SOL which is supposed to be down to earth why the fuck don't your characters act like real human beings that understand social conventions?
It's all just so otakus can think some day they'll just be rescued by that girl. Welcome to NHK was a good deconstruction of this.
What is it with you "manime" retards and showcasing how new you are at every step of the way? Why can't you have your opinion without sounding like a complete and utter newfag?
I will simplify it for the stupid people.
Anime is bad because it does not reflect western Christian culture. Western Christian culture is the apex of humanity, and should always be idolized and drawn from.
Since that is no longer the case for anime, the only thing that can happen is degeneration. When you fall off the top floor of a building, you will only go down.
>It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.
100% true. And financed mainly by people catering to humans who can't stand looking at other humans.
Moe, harems, ecchi, are shit. All shit.
What's interesting is that there are more female directors that stand out nowadays then ever during his times: Matsumoto Rie, Yamada Naoko and Yamamoto Sayo. All of them made their debutes in the last 15 years and have made rather interesting female characters in their works.
I also agree with this:
In fact sometimes the strength of animation is that it can do some things that don't work as much in live-action because of how unrealistic they are.
Also the reason i involved SJWs out of the blue is because of this. Christopher Poole (moot) had been in bed with SJWs (XOXO fest) for years already.
I don't care about GamerGoys or 4cuck for that matter (i monitor multiple chans now, embrace the autism) but i will admit i feel a bit disappointed over what this place has become. I've had a great time here for years after all.
Still, we lost this place to SJWs so there's no use in lamenting over it. They're targeting anime now so i think our priority should be siding with Nippon now. They're not looking as yamato damashii as they used to. Maybe anime will get better too when we create a market for it that doesn't demand moeshit. Their video game industry managed to take off into the world so surely anime and manga can do it as well.
He's right though. When shitting on a generalized group of people in one thread, you almost always put yourself above them. Even if you think it's justified, you're basically shitting on them for having a different opinion from yours. I always try to keep that in mind when doing that kind of post, but I haven't really found a way around it, other than not to post.
>Maybe anime will get better too when we create a market for it that doesn't demand moeshit. Their video game industry managed to take off into the world so surely anime and manga can do it as well.
If you think that 1. anime can become mainstream and 2. videogames becoming mainstream was a good thing, then you do not understand either industry.
What moot said in that screenshot is perfectly fine and has been the policy here for fucking ages.
I recommend you fuck off right back to some other chan, if you hate it here so much. Conceited and yet clueless retards like you won't be missed.
>I'm sick of plots being started by meeting people
If this actually bothers you, you need to stop watching or reading stories. It's a broad category of incidental ways to start a story, get the fuck over it.
Makes it kinda special, too, though, if it were true that anime was made by introverted people that have no experience in observing real people close up. What other media are there that offer this?
In fact, I could even think of situations where this could be a plus. Maybe being "detached" allows for a critical view? One that "attached" people possibly couldn't ever have, considering all the human flaws and biases there are?
Maybe he's bothered by the way it's done?
Not him but it annoys me how many anime start pretty much the same way. "I was just a normal high school student, but then I meet X."
I don't mind the meeting that starts the plot. I just dislike how it's done without any creativity. They do it so predictable. Bonus negative points if they literally say "but all changed when I met x/y happened".
The street name signs captcha is bugged again. Damn I hate it.
I like you anon, you hit the nail on the head.
>Are anime creators making idealized versions of women, or unrealistic ones?
love how brainwashed westerners keep fidning baseless implications.
there isnt a single japanese male who dislike anime depiction of women.
>Has anime become too self-referential and disconnected from the 'real world'?
dont tell me a fictional mediaisnt realistic.
also miazaki is a hypocrite
he does the exact same thing he now shunes
I think Miyazaki is right in what he's saying, but I don't think that's a problem. The fact that anime is made by humans so detatched from reality that don't want to look at other humans is what's making it a better form of entertainment to me than stuff like TV or movies.
And that's why "serious" anime usually provide different points of view on humans than other mediums. Not every medium needs to be so close to reality and whoever thinks that all this is the reason for cliches is a fucking pantsu on head retard.
what does this even mean you obtuse cunt?
Esp. in the context of renaissance art versus 'modern' painting you can see a clear distinction between different modes of depicting reality.
Expression versus Pure Realism on one end and icons and the "idolized human" on the other.
The problem with all representations is that it makes inherent concessions with reality. Meaning that all representations are inherently unrealistic because they are by their very nature 'not reality,' they are representations.
However, if you wish to take the time to define 'reality,' the abstractions of representation could categorically be considered to be reality themselves, but no longer be considered 'representation' because those representations are simply objects themselves.
Ultimately, this all comes down to how representation-y or un-representation-y you want your representations. It's like there's a sliding bar for realism or something--both in what you choose to create and what you choose to consume.
People watch a show to determine if it is good or not.
There are many instances of a 2 cour show being great and then shitting the bed in the last 5 episodes or a show starting off terribly but getting better a cour in.
If you are going to discuss a show on a weekly basis then you will have to accept that people may not like every single episode and will complain about it.
This whole argument is completely strange for me, I watch anime because its going to have unrealistic characters making reactions normal people wouldnt have, thats where the fun is, RL people are just kinda boring most of the time, not saying its bad, i'm saying its not interesting, the reactions, the faces, the people, its easy to predict how they will react and what they will say, it just meh.
Its not like we will be put everyday in a life-threathing or special situations where everyone will stop being boring and actually do interesting things, sure sometimes it happens but those are the exceptions.
>RL people are just kinda boring most of the time, not saying its bad, i'm saying its not interesting, the reactions, the faces, the people, its easy to predict how they will react and what they will say, it just meh
>2. videogames becoming mainstream was a good thing, then you do not understand either industry
I think it is you who doesn't understand. Right now the Western video game industry is being tainted by political correctness, something that Nippon disregards. They just make video games. This shift is not something to go unnoticed.
Also, do not forget that Japanese video games come with their own perks and culture. Yet they still were able to spread far and wide (some of it including anime).
As for anime, i won't disagree that it's not a challenge or a big, maybe giant hurdle. But as i pointed out above; it's certainly not impossible.
Moot has secretly been in bed with SJWs for years. Whom's bread you eat, their words you speak.
I have no problem 'fucking right back off' to some other chan, not all. It's what i'm doing already. But as long as my old buddies are still here i don't see why we can't enjoy each others company.
You are what is wrong with the chans, you stormnigger, this is not /v/ or /pol/.
Reddit is all over this place.
/v/ isn't even /v/ anymore. That goes for a lot of other boards as well. What you're seeing here is social media-tier cancer. It's happening everywhere, not just on popular chans.
It's been predicted too. Though i don't have any screencaps.
I'm an animator (not Japanese animation, but w/e). Working with younger animators is difficult because their understanding of the world is based largely on what they've seen in movies, anime, and video games. They've never done anything else. They don't know what the real world actually looks like. They don't know how people or animals move. They've never looked closely at a sunset, or a forest, or a busy street. If the only base of experience an artist or writer has to draw from is other art or fiction, each work becomes more and more skewed until it's no longer meaningful to anyone who isn't similarly deprived of experience.
Are more realistic characters and Otaku desires completely incompatible? Otaku like anime girls who are virgins and save any romantic feelings for their one true love. They can be perverted and make dirty jokes but that seems to be the length of what's acceptable.
Would the industry be able to put out stories with interesting, developed characters while still pandering to Otaku?
I always liked that one mantra you get on 2ch sometimes from the people that think the anime industry is a joke. Something like
>Directed by somebody that doesn't understand proper motion, cinematography and pacing
>Written by somebody that doesn't understand how people actually talk or how to tell a story
>Cast with people of dubious acting talent and based on industry affiliation over proper auditions
>Scored by somebody that doesn't seem to have seen the show at all beforehand
>Produced by people that are businessmen and not artists
>It's the anime industry just admit it already
I feel like anime sort of reached its peak around the early 2000s in terms of how much leeway was given to less mainstream-oriented shows. I mean, seriously, when else would you ever expect shows like Wolf's Rain, Last Exile, Paranoia Agent, and a few others to be given the green light for production?
I want anime that plays fantasy to have characters like real people and anime that plays real life to have idealized characters
100% this right on the money. It's just undeniable really. The story is often there to facilitate the product which is the waifu or husbando and a largely secondary concern to a lot of producers. A good example would be when Fumiaki Maruto was talking to his producer about some ideas for the first anime original episode of Saekano that he had as an introduction to the cast and was summarily told something like "Thanks but none of this stuff really matters as long as we have cute girls so don't rack your brain to hard over this and just hit the deadline"
So everyone, including YOU, need to leave? literally everyone here is an Anti-sociable cunt. And your sperging about people acting superior is idiotic since you're calling him a "normalfag". so in all honesty arent you the one acting Superior?
It's not really about creating realistic-looking character designs, it's about creating believable characters. No matter how outlandish the design, the character still has to have enough human elements for the audience to relate to. The exception would be if you want the audience to find the character inhuman or disturbing, but that's different from failing to make believable characters because you don't know how real humans behave.
Career and 4chan are probably best left separate.
Most SOL shows are just stupid wish fulfillment stuff and cute girls doing cute things with nothing bad ever happening ever which is not how real life works at all. It's pretty much just as an escapist fantasy type template as battle harem.
>when moot was already in league with SJWs
Makes one question where you are from.
That seems to be a result of the crush of LN adaptations and what I call asshole character syndrome. Just for whatever reason the average cast of a given LN is all but completely insufferable. It's a medium filled with just awful people as characters made to appeal to otaku through character design and I guess as the only people that could possibly identify with these kinds of character.
>Career and 4chan are probably best left separate.
Oh sorry, i didn't mean official legit work that you've done.
I was more hinting at sketchwork and stuff you've done for fun or for no reason.
He is right to a degree. If you have 0 experience in something then I don't think you can accurately write about it.
It reminds me of that person who wrote that article about Kojima's writing, and how if a person has never fought in a war, or at the very least has never been a soldier themselves, then they are only really guessing what soldiers are like.
anime doesnt make you more antisocial, everybody has a hard time getting friends at 20s and more after their 30s, if you dont constantly interact with other people you will have a harder time trying to, in the school you are forced to interact with people almost everyday.
i sometimes wonder how much of /a/ has actually seen this movie. If you haven't, it's called The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness, and is basically a documentary on the production process of The Wind Rises and how Ghibli works as a studio. I feel like when you watch the film you get a better idea of what he's trying to say in these quotes.
>Miyazaki: "The problem with these actors is they're all actors. They understand how other people communicate. I know the people my father worked with, aeroplane engineers are always trapped in their own world of designs and don't understand people. They're like..."
>Assistant: "Like Anno?"
>Miyazaki: "Yes like...wait, could we just get Anno?"
He's not a great actor, but I get what Miyazaki means. My grandfather was an engineer for the railroads, so I know what those people are like. They're also so self-absorbed in their tinkering and the perfectionism of their work.
>It's the same for every single medium out there.
not really. Even if they aren't as popular, intelligent movies, books, tv shows etc.. are still made today. Anime has literally nothing.
There are intelligent anime. Even last season there was Subete ga F ni naru, which is adapted from an actual novel.
But they just don't sell.
It's like 50 Shades of Gray and Infinite Jest, one of them is mass media trash, the other is an beautifully constructed work. One of them gives you money, the other gives you status.
>There's a reason Western Comic isn't seen as better than Anime/Manga. That's because Comic puts a lot of real world issues into it and people who are pussy just don't want to deal with it. Sure its great to watch a show for nothing more than a stupid non-realistic plot. That's not the issue, the issue is that 90% or more of the damn Anime/Manga medium IS this stupid shit and it mentally drains the human being consuming it.
This is quite literally the biggest crock of shit in this entire shit in this entire thread.
>The myth that all anime is late-night is baseless
The "myth" that primetime or even off-primetime anime is dead and shifted almost exclusively to late night is not a myth, it's entirely true.
Kids shows have always been a separate thing and don't even bare mentioning besides calling out how they've always been demarcated.
You are on a copy of a japanese imageboard that's full of trolls and retard threads (like this one), talking about "low and superior intelligence" based on taste.
This isn't intelligent at all, you know.
Chuck Jones (the Loony Toons guy) talked about a similar concept. He said something like the reason his humor resonated with so many people was because he got all his ideas from observing real life. He had the people that worked under him do the same, he told them to go outside the studio and watch people or animals and try to find things that are funny.
I think both Miyazaki and Jones are right, the best way to making great animation is by observing real life. But Jones was a pioneer of animation and Miyazaki is practically a pioneer of anime. The reason modern cartoons and anime seem so self-referential and masturbatory isn't necessarily because they're ignoring reality but because they need to take inspiration from itself in order to stay relevant. Miyazaki can grumble all he wants about it, but the real reality of modern media is that basing work solely off of real life isn't as marketable as iterating off of a medium's known successes.