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Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1366
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Cornucopia of Resources / Guide (read Guide before asking questions):
http://bitlasers.com/djt

Previous Thread:
>>135797348
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCRfTmBSGs

Some missionaries are giants in the Spirit and pygmies in skills in the Spirit. Work hard to develop a balance. Your leaders, and you, should teach the skills to each other.
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I opened up the GJ Bu light novel for fun and noticed it was essentially in 4koma format, 2 page chapters with completely independent storylines (as far as I can tell). Could be easy light reading
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「まあまあ、楽しいかな」

 そう、最近は本当に愉しいんだ

本当に違いが分からなきゃいけないなんて、思わなかった。普通に漢字が違うけど意味と本音が同じいなら、違いを分かる必要がない。以外だね。
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誰も使うPIXIVか?
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>>135826322
>誰も使うPIXIV
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>>135826294
お。
ずいぶんと、賢しらなことを、言う様になったじゃないの。
でもそういうの、嫌いじゃないよ。
>>
>>135826322
英語でおk
>>
>>135826322
ロングスカートにべんげたでスキップしててこけたらネジとれちゃうよ。なの
>>
Studying Japanese is actually really fun. To the point where I really just want to drop out of school to spend more time on it.
>>
>>135825692
Please add a comment or an explanation when you post pictures like this one. I get so unbearably curious otherwise.
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>>135826551
The girl says
>私を誰だと思ってんだ
which reminded me of
>>135822394
>>135822458
Or where you being sarcastic
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>>135826546
Be free. School is only there to make you a slightly more effective wage slave anyway.
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>>135826625
Wage slavery subsists life, which is why people do it
>>
I'm currently downloading the first season of sailor moon

Am I making a mistake?
>>
>>135826600
>Or where you being sarcastic
No. I wondered if you might've had a question or something.
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>>135826632
Not me, mate. I'm a free man.
Just start growing pot, or something. The worst that could happen is a slap on the wrist in comparison to working 9-5 all your life.
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>>135826724
>The worst that could happen is a slap on the wrist
I live in America
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>>135826376
そうだね。ここに人が下手から、こんなことをバカにする。でも日本語の特別な一部だね。頑張らなきゃ!
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>>135826758
Just learn some Spanish so that you can tell the Pablos to fuck off, in case you get thrown in jail.
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>>135826884
>in case
I live in America
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>>135826784
>ここに人が下手から
ここの人が下手から
Nice one to fuck up on
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>>135826784
なにをいってるのかまったくわからんが
なにをいいたいのかはぜんぶわかるよ
>>
It's funny to see the Japanese mix things up like this. Shougi is the foreign version, not chess.
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>>135826886
Ah man, just be yourself. Stop giving a fuck about what other people think.
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>>135826784
頑張って!
努力は、無駄では無い!
>>
ebook promotion's still going on. If you want any ebooks that are under 450 yen ripped, post it and I (or the other ripanon) can grab it.

books.rakuten.co.jp
>>
 戦う以上、犠牲が皆無ということはありえない。だが同時に、犠牲の増加に反比例して戦勝の効果は減少する。この双方の命題を両立させる点に用兵学の存在意義があるはずだ。つまり最小の犠牲で最大の効果を、ということであり、冷酷な表現を用いれば、いかに効率よく味方を殺すか、ということになるであろう。司令官はそれを理解しているのかな。
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>>135827278
so deep
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>>135827297
後悔して、戦死した将兵が復活するものなら、キロリットル単位の涙を流すのもよかろう。だが……結局、それは悲愴ごっこにすぎないではないか。
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>>135827002
チェスの日本一って将棋の日本一の羽生さんなんだってね。
It's the well known fact which both of the chess and the Shogi champion is a same parson, called Habu.
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yo what's up DJT tomodachi(s.) I'm Maeri-san from Genki University, and I'm here to teach ya'll some slamming Nihongo!
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>>135827451
>parson
bit cute yea
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>>135827319
だが、非情な司令官に兵が後に続くだろうか?
But will a soldier follow a cold-hearted commander?
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>>135827532
*gestures at russia in ww2*
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I love how being overall unexperienced with Japanese, yet familiar enough to understand it, leads to the phenomenon of finding all of the language fresh and lines which would sound lame in English sound hella cool in Japanese.
>>
Is there a way to filter an anki deck by kanji?

Like suppose I want to learn all the words in Core10k that have a certain set of kanji in them (specifically, the ones I've studied). How do I create such a deck?
>>
Warning: blog post ahead:
Is anyone else struggling to find the time and energy to study? I started one month ago and somehow managed to do my reps everyday, but due to college exams coming up I haven't been able to study japanese for one week, and my load of work won't get lighter for at least 2 more months.
It's not like I can't find 2 hours a day to devote to anki and some grammar, but I'd end up spending basically all my waking hours studying, and on the top of that last year my motivation problems with college have resulted in quite a few backlogs, so it feels kind of irresponsible of me to use my time for an extra activity like learning another language, for now at least. Do you have a similar experience?
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>have book I want to read
>ability to read book
>read a couple of sentences and have to stop to daydream, listen to music and pace
I hate it when I'm like this. This happens with English books too. I'll bring a book to read for a car/plane ride, read a few sentences and then daydream while looking out the window the rest of the time.

In short, how do I get into a concentrating state of mind?
>>
>>135828000
Just study 15-30 minutes so you aren't forgetting everything. Most college students greatly exaggerate how much time they actually spend on college. Unless you are taking some really hard classes or are working full time, you have plenty of time.
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>>135826205
Is that in CoR?
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>>135828085
Ask your neighbourhood gangbanger for some speed.
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>>135828085
>how do I get into a concentrating state of mind?
Adderal

I mean seriously amphetaneet is a meme for a reason
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>>135828085

Sounds like you have ADD like me. You're just cursed to struggle.
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>>135828000
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. Whenever I had school or work, I would not have any motivation or energy to study Japanese, despite having the time.

What I did was: Anki. That's it. I woke up, did 10 new cards and 200 some reviews, took about 30 minutes. That's how I started (or ended) my day. If your anki is longer than that, do less new cards. And a long time passed, months and months and months of nothing but anki. I not only didn't get worse, I actually improved, significantly. So when I became a NEET almost a year later, I not only succesfully held onto my Japanese skills, but I also easily jumped back into grammar and am now, I think, successful with Japanese.
>so it feels kind of irresponsible of me to use my time for an extra activity like learning another language, for now at least.
Well, be honest with yourself, you're not going to be using your time very productively I think. It's more responsible to use your time for studying a language than the goofing off you'll inevitably do, frankly. The vast majority of people do not work for 16 waking hours a day.
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>>135828085

Just because you want to do something doesn't mean that you HAVE to do it.

Don't daydream.
Don't listen to music.
Don't pace.

Read.
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>>135828154
Don't I know it. Unfortunately medicine didn't really help me.
>>135828220
I think I'll baby myself and set a timer for 5 minuets at a time. That way I'll make some progress.

I should probably close /a/ too. Refreshing the same threads constantly isn't helping me.
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>>135828312
>Refreshing the same threads constantly isn't helping me.
This doesn't me you have ADD does it?
>>
>>135826205
Where'd you get that? I can only find .epub.
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>>135828336
Why, is that what you're doing?

I think if you have the inability to concentrate on something you want to do and repetitively do other things to run away from it is ADD. At least that's how I feel about it.
>>
そろそろパンパンマンしようか
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>>135828346
>>135828135
No clue. I got it over a year ago. I would upload it but it's only volume 1 so that'd be a bit of blueballing.
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>帝国軍二四四万八六〇〇名、同盟軍四〇六万五九〇〇名
>戦死者は帝国軍一五万三四〇〇名余、同盟軍一五〇万八九〇〇名余。
These fucking numbers. I can't sight read them at all. Feel like an idiot
>>
What's a good program for reading Japanese epubs on PC?
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ctSSxmSx6c
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>>135826116
What's DJTs opinion on Remembering the kanji?
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>>135829152

Not as good as rosetta stone.
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>>135829152
People don't like it here because wanikani is pretty much superior in every aspect.
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>>135829152
DJT's opinion on RTK is total rejection followed by struggling with two kanji that don't even look remotely alike.
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>>135829152

It's a good method but for it to work properly you need to make up your own image associations and research the worthwhile meanings/readings yourself as the defaults tend to be lackluster.
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>>135829248
Can skip RTK and learn radicals instead. 1/100th of the time and if you find yourself having trouble with a kanji, you can make up your own story up for it from the radicals.
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なるべく諦めない!
なせば大抵なんとかなる!

Persistence is the key to success. You CAN learn Japanese!
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How would you rate the difficulty of this text?
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>>135823287
Massively overly-energetic genki with loud higher pitched voice acting just isn't my thing. She's a good character and I see her appeal, she's just not for me. She was really good when she was calm though. If it's any consolation, I'm not really a big fan of Sakurako either. I don't hate them, I just like the others more. I liked both of their routes a lot though.
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>>135831056
2/10
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>>135831056

I could literally read this on week 1.
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>>135831211
>>135831401
And now for some serious replies?
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>>135831056
>>135831440
Can't read the first bracketed word, so 9/10.
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Would anyone be interested in a guide on how to keep yourself motivated?

Two threads ago a lot of people talked about lacking motivation and I keep seeing posts about it. I've been reading some books about it for a while now and feel like some of the stuff I learned could be of help to others, but there's quite a few problems:

I'm actually not studying Japanese, so I couldn't give you specific tips in that regard,
I'm just a layman, so I wouldn't be able to uphold scientific standards, although I at least gathered a few citations to prove some claims,
I haven't tried most of this stuff yet,
I actually have not written the guide yet, but I have notes.

Still interested or do you see no point in it?
>>
>>135831525
溶岩都市?
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>>135831572
Motivation is overrated, you need discipline.

Don't want to do those anki reps? Tough. Do them and feel the neuron connections being formed.
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>>135831440
It has no difficult kanji and furigana even for easy kanji. 2/10 wasn't a troll, anon.
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>>135831678
Furigana in LNs is sometimes used weirdly, that's true.

I presume its usage might be based on some lists based on what Japanese kids learn in schools at various grades, but who knows.
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>>135831660

Motivation is the most important aspect of all studying, it's a nice thought that everyone will just do everything that's necessary in their lives out of discipline but in practice it doesn't actually work like that in the real world as people aren't infallible machines.
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>>135831660

This.

There's no way that short-term motivation can keep you going every single day. There are going to be days where you just don't feel like studying Japanese. Even when you get started, your retention is horrible, and you just want to stop and do something that makes zero demands on your brain.

On days like that, you need to remember that even a single day is pretty significant. What happens if you decide to make an excuse the day after tomorrow, too? And then the day after that? What if you do it again next week? A month from now, it could make the difference between literally hundreds of anki cards and decide whether you see the end credits of a VN this month. Then, if you're still not thinking "oh boy, I can't wait to study Japanese now", you need to use discipline to get in there and fulfill your obligations as a Japanese learner.

Our minds and bodies naturally tend towards not wanting to put in any work that they don't absolutely have to. Discipline, the choice of saying "fuck you, you lazy piece of shit, get to work anyways", is a necessary behavior for learning any skill. People who give up after the first two weeks are losers who only do things when they feel motivated.
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>>135831830

>I'm trying to lose weight, but I just don't feel like it. I'm so tired. And I want a pizza. ;_;
>Well, I guess it can't be helped! I'm not motivated today, and I'm just a dumb animal who can't use his free will to put his long term goals over his short term desires. Pizza time!

People like you are the cause of many of the world's problems.
>>
>>135832064

Not sure if troll or just an idiot considering the amount of miles you missed the point by. Come on now.
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>>135832099

I'm not missing the point at all.

> it doesn't actually work like that in the real world as people aren't infallible machines

This statement dismisses the target from responsibility for their actions, pushing it off into some mysterious void. "It's not your fault that you chose not to do your reps today! You just didn't feel motivated!" And they did choose. They chose many times throughout the day not to do their reps, because they didn't feel like it.

>BRAIN CHEMICALS!

Guess what? Everyone here has days where their mind says "DON'T YOU DARE STUDY TODAY!" That's chemicals at work. We study anyways. You always have free will.
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>>135832229
Are you an existentialist?
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>>135832303

I'm someone who lives in reality and actually accomplishes his goals instead of searching for excuses and ultimately giving up.
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>>135832334
Oh okay
>>
Kanji kanji for you kanji kanji 貗
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>>135832229

>I'm not missing the point at all
>This statement dismisses the target from responsibility for their actions

Anon, you're contradicting yourself from the literal first sentence you write. I don't know why you're being so aggressive about it either, calm your ass, no need to make everything a fight. With the kind of irrelevant quotes you're throwing around, you can just straight up replace the word "motivation" with "discipline", and can just as well go "Oh well, guess I just wasn't disciplined enough today, maybe tomorrow." Excuses are excuses regardless of how you word them but nobody was talking about that at all.

I'm not arguing that discipline is not important, because it is. But it's not some kind of opposing force to motivation, you don't make a choice between having discipline and having motivation, that's utter nonsense. People who push themselves to achieve great goals do so because they're motivated to reach that goal, and discipline is the tool they use to reach the thing they're motivated about.

What I'm saying is that you need both motivation and discipline and you can't dismiss one or the other as being useless or "overrated". You need to find ways to keep yourself motivated, even something as simple as "If I don't do this today I'll regret it tomorrow" and then you need discipline to actually go through with it. They're practically two sides of the same coin, one is going to have a very hard time existing without the other.
>>


This kanji is beautiful. This is one of those characters that's mildly complicated, and yet, every single component in it equally contributes to the meaning. It's so good.
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>actually needing discipline to learn Japanese
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>>135832697
豸 - Wild animal or fanged animal?
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>>135832655

>Anon, you're contradicting yourself from the literal first sentence you write.

Disagreeing with you isn't contradicting myself. Furthermore, I explained my point. You're just choosing to ignore it.

You're advocating a need for short-term motivation.

People generally establish a long term motivation before they begin. For example, "I want to relax with visual novels in Japanese" or "I don't want to have to deal with censorship from the middle man". They don't need help with that phase. They know what they want already.

Where the problem comes in is discipline. They begin to make poor choices. It's not because they no longer want to know Japanese. That still sounds amazing to them. It's because there are inevitably days where it'll sound like a pain in the ass, and they don't use discipline to overcome the problem. It's a downward spiral from there. The more excuses you allow yourself, the more you get into the habit of dodging your studies. Before long, you're not studying at all.

You can't rely on feeling all inspired. You need to behave like a Japanese-learning machine. You just keep your nose to the grindstone day after day until you get there. Some days, you'll feel very go-getter, and that's great. Some days, you won't, and you need to drag yourself away from whatever it is that you're doing and power through. If you can't do that, you can't learn Japanese. Or complete any other large task, for that matter.
>>
>>135832966

I will agree on one condition, though: You need to believe that you're going to make it, and that what you're doing will get you there. If you feel that your efforts are useless, it's natural to throw your hands up in the air and say "Why should I even bother?"

However, with a task like Japanese, if you follow our methods, you'll start seeing results basically right away, and those results will continue fairly consistently until post-fluency. It shouldn't really be a problem here.
>>

What a fun character, holy shit.
>>
>>135831660
>>135831993
Well, the focus of my guide on motivation would've been both to show you techniques that help to keep yourself motivated AND disciplined, and to try to identify and dissuade from pseudo-scientific approaches.

Let's assume you want to be able to recognize the first 300 kanji in the Core6000 deck with a success rate of 95% in the next 2 weeks. Let's also assume that this was hard and could only be done if you regularly, eagerly work on it.
How do ensure that you actually regularly and eagerly work on it?

Do you only work on it when you feel inspired? Do you cram and power through in bursts? Do you keep a schedule and steadily learn? How should you schedule? Should you take pauses? Should you think positively? Should you do it before or after learning? Where should you learn? When should you learn? Should you tell others about your learning? Should you learn in groups?

There's a lot of pitfall in all of the questions above, some answers of which even being outright pseudoscientific bullshit that'll hurt you hard in the long run, but also a lot of room for very easy improvement.

There's actually much research that has been done on willpower, but very little on procrastination, and even people that know about the research on both rarely apply the conclusions.
An example of empirical research is Boyce (1990, pp. 79-81) and his conclusion that scheduling works to combat akrasia. That's probably obvious, although the extent of how much it works is little known (in his study people that scheduled were 16x more efficient than those that didn't).
One of his publicly little known findings, however, is that also showed that precommitment works well.
To apply precommitment in the case I oulined above, you would set yourself a realistic, specific goal and donate, e.g. 100€, to an organization if you didn't meet your goal.
Now, here comes the super secret twist, though:

[for dramatic and space reasons in next post]
>>
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>>135832966

Of course they know what they want in the long run, but discipline also stems from short-term motivation, for most people it doesn't just come out of nothing. You stick to doing your reps with discipline because your motivation is that they won't be there the next day, and if your discipline starts failing then it's most likely a sign that your short-term motivation to get it done isn't strong enough and thus you need to find a way to get it back. If everyone was a "Japanese-learning machine" then that obviously wouldn't be necessary but that's just plain not the case, the vast majority of people need something more concrete to aim for in the short run than just someone saying "You need to be more disciplined!"

If everyone could just "be disciplined" then that would indeed be the optimal scenario and real great and beautiful, and if you can do that then all the power to you, but if your goal is to actually have people reach their goals in practice instead of just theory then you need to work with reality and the reality is that most humans are flawed and lazy and need to find ways to stay motivated so that they can maintain the discipline required to keep going.

For example if your job was to help people lose weight, you'd fail completely at it if you went into it preaching only about discipline without offering smaller goals to aim for, reinforcing their short-term motivation at consistent intervals. In fact that approach would be much more likely to lead to lapses and excuses, because in the absence of those small victories and goals, the actual primary goal is so far away that it's very easy to repeatedly fall into "I'll get there eventually even if I take it easy this one time."

You're not wrong about discipline but you're underestimating the human factor and the thus the importance of motivation, whether it's short- or long-term.
>>
>>135833743

Also sorry about interrupting your dramatic pause, above guy.
>>
>>135833715
[continued]

A far more effective approach would be not simply to gift those 100€ to a friend or donate 100€ to some charity of you liking, the latter being something you can do with tools like stickK (https://www.stickk.com/), by the way, but to have those 100€ go, should you fail, to an organization that you deeply HATE.

Examples:
Sceptics would be forced to pay the money to the Creationist Resaearch Center,
conservative to a gay marriage campaign fund,
leftists to a some racist, nationalist organization,
nazis to the communist party.

This has been shown to greatly improve the success rate of set goals, and these are the kind of tips I would like to write about.

Other topics include things like (most importantly) scheduling and positive and negative reinforcement.

>>135833774
No problem, it's kinda my fault for being such a slow writer.
>>

Sometimes when looking at a kanji I wonder, who was the person who first drew this and did they actually think "this is a fine kanji"?
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>>135833983
Stop reading classics.
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>>135834006
I actually came across that reading cheap porn.

>陰嚢
>>
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>words that you get wrong repeatedly in anki but never have issues with while reading
>>
>>135833715
Would you mind establishing contact via email or something?

I'd be glad to keep up with you so we could eventually integrate your work into the OP or something of the sort. I'm certain that having a guide on motivation, especially written by someone who comes from the DJT and has hands on experience with the kind of stuff people here get to deal with would be quite a valuable resource, not only for newcomers but for just about everyone.

You can drop me an email at seidenfisch@gmail.com
>>
>>135834266
It's not really that surprising. There are many words I have never even seen and I still get what they mean while reading purely from the context or the kanji or both.
>>
>>135834336
>Putting mumbo jumbo motivational bullshit in the OP
Might as well just post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCRfTmBSGs

and be done with it.
>>
>>135833914
>https://www.stickk.com/

Just as many nofaps as I expected.
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i feel like we need a win for english because natives are far too punny so im setting up a new shelter non-profit for abused women and single mothers
We're going to rehabilitate them with music and create an orchestra under the name domestic violins
>>
Has everyone finally started studying Japanese instead of shitposting here?
>>
>>135836417
Yes, I just added 5 words to my deck.

雑学
江戸前寿司
穴子
衛生
創意工夫

Can you guess what I was watching?
>>
>>135836417
Yeah, I'm working on my radicals deck. Just dug out 辰.
>>
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I've been using a 30% interval modifier for a few months now and I've only gained about 3-4% accuracy for all card types.

I still can't recall 1/4 of matures.

Japanese truly is hell.
>>
>>135831056
10/10 because it's so boring i feel like killing myself
>>
>>135834658
Please don't try and screw with the social harmony of Japan.
>>
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>>135837439
>I still can't recall 1/4 of matures.
>>
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q14154472854
Jesus, it's Yosuga no Sora in real life.
>>
>>135837603

If it requires a 1% interval modifier, I will learn Japanese, you cunt.
>>
>>135837678
かっこいい話、おにいちゃん
>>
>>135837678
Would you fuck your sister?
>>
>>135838291
What kind of question is this?
>>
>>135837439
What the fuck are you even doing nigger
>>
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>>135838484
Incest is no good, yo.
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>>135838484
I could watch this gif all day.

I wonder if that show makes for good listening practice.
>>
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Posting once again. You guys are starting to miss me if I don't post, right?
>>
>>135838572
>>
>>135838508

Overstepping my level of intellect, I think.
>>
>>135838737
This is the equivalent of squatting 20 kilos after 3 months. I think you need to take a good hard look at your methods and consider doing some kanji/radical thing if you haven't already instead of bruteforcing it.

Do you actually mean 3-4% correct?
>>
>>135838787

No.

My mature accuracy was ~72% before and now it's ~76%.
>>
>>135838914
All I can say is maybe you're doing too many cards. Or you might want to review forgotten cards at the end of every day to reinforce your memory. I used to do this when my retention rate was really shitty.
>>
>>135838737
Nah, dude. You're better than that.
>>
can someone answer what is good offices
>>
>>135838981
An obscure english expression that some autistic ESL thought was a good definition of something.
>>
>>135839008

This is common in example sentences.

I have no fucking clue what something like: "Good wine needs no bush" is meant to mean without additionally looking it up.
>>
>>135838976

Doubt it.
>>
>>135839334
No one is going to believe in you if you don't believe in yourself first.
>>
>>135839477

One has to be realistic.
>>
DJT, have you tried using moonrunes on a natural speaker?

What did they think of it?
>>
>>135840307
They said my 日本語 was 上手.
>>
>>
>>135840660
>learning radicals through anki

Why?
>>
>>135840713
Why wouldn't you? I do it on the side while shitposting.
>>
>>135838914
Are you done with the deck? I have the same problem just because I'm done with my deck and don't add many new cards. The mature cards I review are mostly old leeches and shit cards that I get to mature and forget again, in an endless cycle.
>>
Anyone done Sou Matome's N1 grammar book before? If yes is it worth getting for ten bucks?
>>
Normally I don't worry about stuff this simple but the more I think about it the more confused I get for some reason.

その声に外に出る

Just to make it clear the voice was already outside and the listener went outside. I get that but the problem is how do I take that first に, is it like a "by" or is it a "toward" or something like that?
>>
>>135842361
To go outside to that voice.

He went outside in order to go to the voice (which is outside already)
>>
>>135842361
>>135842604
Based on similar sentences I've seen I think the に here could also mean something like "in response to".

I've got nothing to back that up with, though.
>>
>>135840773
You're wasting your time.
>>
Word of the day: 申年

今年は猿の年ですよ
そんなことも知らなくて年賀状はどうするつもりでしょうか
>>
>>135844198
知らないで*

責められる前に訂正しよう
>>
What's the difference between "to iu no/koto" when used to abstract a relative clause and "no/koto" on its own? Sorry for using Romaji, my IME isn't working.
>>
>>135843927
Literally everything I do is a waste of time.
>>
can someone buy me a memrise account?
>>
>>135844545
Read more dude, seriously. I don't get you
>>
>>135844940
Nah, mate. Here's a discount code for WaniKani, though:
"wanikani heart textfugu"
>>
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俺よりダメな人いる?

現在34歳。一人暮らしのひきこもりニート。高校中退 車の免許なし 学歴なし 貯金なし 恋人なし 友達なし 夢もなし
目標なし やりたいこともなし 生きる希望なし 生命保険なし 国民健康保険なし 家族が嫌いで連絡取ってない
上の歯が一本欠けてる 頭頂部が薄い
躁鬱病 強迫性障害 境界性人格障害
これが俺です。俺よりダメな人いる?
>>
>>135845357
wwww自殺しろよ、クズ
>>
>>135844940
Are you a cute girl?
>>
>protagonist uses 僕
>close novel, delete folder
>>
>>135845941
ただの常識よ。
>>
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>antagonist uses 我
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>>135846150
>我は
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>main character uses 俺
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>>135841709

I'm making the deck.
>>
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>learning Japanese
>being a casual
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>lead girl uses 私《わたくし》
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>>135846333
>old english
i already understand old english though (yes i mean real old english not shakespeare crap)
>>
>>135846333

I fucking love Nauruan media.

Retard.
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>but I think a majority still don't get the value of consistency of effort.
>This should be the first thing that everyone is told when they start learning. This maters more than what course book you use, it matters more than what app you use, it matters more than almost anything except actually talking to natives as early as possible.
Some people say the darnedest things.
>>
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>>135846497
>except actually talking to natives as early as possible
>>
>>135846386
You only think you do.
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>>135846333
Why is Latin so low?
>>
>>135846637
I'm frisian, so no, I actually do
>>
>>135846651
A lot of people learn it at school.
>>
>>135846651
Green: Official language in a country
Yellow: Still spoken somewhere
Red: Dead
>b-but there's so much media
When the fucking Pope spoke Latin in the fuckin' Vatican, only one dude could understand him in the whole place and he was a reporter.
>>
>>135846671
Nah, you're a mong.
>>
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>Female delinquent uses 俺
>>
I'm interested in reading a vn that has also been translated in case I encounter something I can't understand out. Can someone please rank these by difficulty? Thanks.

Little Busters!
Steins;Gate
Ever17 -The Out of Infinity-
G-senjou no Maou
Maji de Watashi ni Koishinasai!
>>
Easy to hard:
They're
All
Written
In
Japanese

You're welcome.
>>
自爆テロ
>>
How do I convince myself to play a game or a vn and enjoy it?
>>
日本はだめですねぇ
>>
>>135847181
First step
close this window
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>>135847181
You read different VNs and play different games until you find one you enjoy.
In the beginning reading will frankly be too difficult to enjoy for most people. That just means you need to read despite not enjoying it until you get better.
>>
>>135847242
だめだめ
絶対ダメ
>>
>>135847252
bbut it's the sjw videos that are distracting me i need to constantly be educated
>>
>>135841927
I'd say they are. You can find them online, though.
>>
>>135847295
ive been learning for 5 years and i can read very conformable but for some reason id rather watch sjw videos all day
>>
>>135846497
How do conversations with absolute beginners/pre N5's even work?
>>
>>135847372
Well anon that's simple then, you just don't like reading. No worries. In the modern era, reading books and novels has phased out in favour of youtube and video games. No harm in participating in that, you are who you are.
>>
>at the point where I can easily finish reading the line before the VA finishes it a lot of the time
>want to move on to the next line, but moving on interrupts the voice acting
>VN doesn't have an option to let the audio keep playing
I feel like a feature like that should really be in every VN.
>>
あああああぁ

駄目だ

全然駄目だ。
>>
>>135847500
Not like you can read the next line while comprehending what's being spoken. If you want to listen to the VA audio than don't click next before the audio finishes.
>>
>>135847487
no i want to read but i feel like i have a responsibility to watch all these videos before reading.
>>
>>135847586
You know say they want to read but then never read? Everyone. It's like saying you want to work out but never doing it.
>>
>>135847687
but I did work out today
>>
>>135846671

You can piece together what it means to an extent.
>>
>>135847736
But you didn't read.
>>
>>135847736
but did you work out your 脳味噌 big boy?
>>
>>135831127
YUI COULD NEVER BE TOO ENERGETIC OR TOO LOUD! HOW DARE YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION TO ME! THIS IS INTOLERABLE! YUI IS LOVE! YUI IS LIFE! ADMIT THAT YUI IS SUPERIOR TO WHATEVER SHIT GIRL YOU LIKE!
>>
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What would you guys view as the most "correct" naming for a series like エレメンタルジェレイド ? It comes out to Erementar Gerad, which they officially use in everything, but it's pretty clear they meant Elemental Gelade.

Basically what I'm asking is, in regards to a series name, should you keep it as they have it, or "fix" it and go with what it appears they had intended?
>>
>>135847794
I'm reading your post right now
>>
>>135847875
Japanese, baaaka.
>>
>>135847860
I don't concern myself with frivolities like romanisation, and you shouldn't either.
>>
>>135847911
what's your point? baka desu senpai
>>
>>135847860

Japan has a more limited phonology, so you should convert it back to what is intended.

I would be like Japanese translating Tokyo to トキオ. Might be appropriate in some cases, but it's most likely that the language barrier has gotten in the way.
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I've broken out of intermediate hell and it's fushigi as fuck to be quite honest. Reading VNs and novels don't really noticeably help, I know so much that even if there's a high density of unknown vocabulary (like in LOGH) I can understand what's going on fine. In short, I can open up a game in Japanese or a novel in Japanese and read it at a good pace, no real need to look up words, no hesitation over grammar, just understanding and having a good time. It seems I just need to watch anime to get more used to listening and comprehending the words I already know, which should in turn improve the speed and competence my speaking ability. That, and keep up with Anki - I may be able to understand the story, but I'd like to be able to read the words I'm relying on kanji for, as well as know the exact meaning of adjectives that I'm otherwise guessing on (like the difference between "bright" and "dazzling" for example).

I guess I know Japanese, now. Despite still having a long way to go to be fluent and native level, I can read and watch anything I want with no barrier or hesitation.

Random stats:
652 days in Anki, or 1.76 years (missed 10-some days in the beginning but haven't missed a single day in over a year)
Given the Genki and Namansensei stuff I wasted time on, total time is about 2 years since I started
5,758 mature cards in anki, 1459 young
Total time in anki: 452 hours
2629 total unique kanji learned, 2895 total unique kanji encountered (the last 266 appear so little it doesn't impact my ability to understand, plus most of them I can read despite not having done in anki because it gets easier to learn new kanji after awhile)
Amount read (this is by far the bulk of my studying, which explains the low amount of anki cards): 15-20 full length VNs, a couple LNs, 50-some volumes of manga (including ero-manga and factored in artist CGs), misc time spent on 2ch
Amount listened: Dialogue of VNs, not much else

Good luck everybody, you can make it if you read.
>>
>>135834336
Please keep the things I said here in mind: >>135831572
Most importantly that, despite always coming here for something like 3 years now, I am actually not studying Japanese, so I wouldn't be able to tailor the guide much to DJT needs specifically without delving into learning Japanese more myself or getting assistance.
I believe that the techniques are pretty much universal, though, so, while learning Japanese would certainly help in the creation of a guide for DJT, it probably isn't really necessary.

I'll nevertheless drop you an e-mail. Will take a while, though.
>>
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>>135848721
>>
>>135849046
はずかしい
>>
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>>135848721
Happy endings make me so happy.

Although given that you've only done 6k and have less than 3k kanji down I think you might be a bit delusional, but you believe in yourself and that's what matters the most!
>>
Anyone got a good radicals deck? I did one like a year ago but now I'm realizing that I'm more just winging it when identifying kanjis and can't look up any of them with ease.
>>
>>135848721

>1003 days in anki
>this is my fourth or fifth deck
>>
安倍ぴょん (アビピョン)
>>
Phew. I don't check back here that often anymore but I just heard from my mom there was a 9-ish magnitude earthquake in Japan, info that she got from some Chinese news site on her phone. I didn't believe her and checked here and there but nothing came up except this ominous article. http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/11043616/
>>
>>135849046
Please delete this one, I hate it.
>>
>>135849122
Nah, I've been reading VNs without a texthooker and have even been reading LOGH and Muramasa, so I know my level pretty well, like I said the bulk of my study was reading so Anki doesn't reflect it very accurately. If I were delusional I wouldn't be able to just download new VNs and read them without a texthooker, and I wouldn't be able to smoothly read LOGH, and I wouldn't be able to follow Muramasa, and I wouldn't be able to open up any LN or erodoujin and barely process I'm even reading in a foreign language due to how natural it is. I may still be pretty bad at listening and producing but when it comes to reading there is no delusion here, there's no obstacles. I didn't make that post the second I read 10 lines into a moege, I actually completed multiple VNs with no assistance.

One thing is that the number of kanji necessary is vastly over-stated. To quote,
>Of the 3086 kanji in Muramasa 266 kanji appear once, and only a single time. 296 kanji appear two or three times. 443 appear between four and ten times. Practically speaking, the 3,086 can be considered to be around 2,500 actual kanji you need to know in order to comfortably read Muramasa.
Even though there's 3000-3,500 kanji in active use, at least a thousand of them are less than a single percent in appearance, so even only knowing "just" 2,500ish you can read novels and manga without sweating, plus they're often something like 朋 with furigana so even if you don't know the kanji you can still read just fine.
>>
>>135849149
I posted mine a couple threads ago, but I'm still going through it to tie up loose ends and fix shit. I should post an updated version tomorrow. I would rush and finish it today but I'm invested in my reps in it now. >>135840660
>>
>>135849526
Thanks dude, I'll check here or the archive later
>>
>>135849491
>朋
Why in the absolute fuck is this number 19 in Heisig?
>>
>>135849489

I like it.
>>
>>135849641
Prolly cuz double moon is a simple kanji easy to make a mnenomic for, isn't that how Heisig ordered his kanji? I haven't read the book though so I don't know.
>>
>>135849641
Now you know why people find RTK silly
>>
>>135849679
>double moon
Anon....
>>
>>135849641

Simple to complex you dummy.
>>
>>135849732
What? I meant that the kanji is just two moon raidcals put beside each other, not that the kanji means double moon
>>
>>135849732
I know right? It's obviously an organ moon.
>>
>>135849794
>two moon raidcals
Anon....
>>
>>135849807
What do you want from me ?
>>
>>135848721

What is your total number of anki reviews?
>>
>>135849879
201,091 reviews
324 a day
40 minutes average a day
>>
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>>135848721
>7200 cards
>2600 kanji
damn i have 19k cards and only 2500 kanji after 2 years. wish i was neurotypical too
>>
>>135850000
You need to stop wishing and start doing. Just sitting on your arse will get you nowhere.
>>
>>135850000
I don't add words that I can read, i.e. even if I didn't know 飛躍的 I wouldn't add it because I knew the kanji and could read it. That way I picked up words primarily through context while minimizing anki (with mixed results, I don't necessarily recommend this course of action). If you have 19,000 (unique words?) cards than you obviously did not follow the same principle so no use comparing stats like that, apples and oranges.

I also semi-inflated my kanji grid by adding words such as 林檎 and 魑魅魍魎 even though I could read them simply for the new kanji, haha.
>>
>>135850000

Not that guy but I still can't comprehend how people can rack up that many cards, do people just not know their kanji meanings at all and end up having to add every single new word they come across even if the kanji in it use their common meanings?
>>
>>135850000

I wish I could learn 26 cards per day.
>>
>>135850161
It's not a bad idea to add every single new word, if it's easy to read and memorize you'll get TWO benefits from adding it: one, the SRS algorithim will push it back so you don't even have to see it long, and two, you'll be able to do WAY more new cards a day because many of them are easy. Naturally this is more beneficial for anki stats than your Japanese but more exposure is always good
>>
What's the highest amount of new cards you've ever done.

Did 100 a day for my first three weeks, never went over that number again after I learned how to use Anki.
>>
>>135850255
When I added the DOJG deck, I had already been reading for a good number of months so the entire DOBJG opening section of 200 some cards was all stuff I knew. Not wanting to suspend them or delete them, I just straight up did 210-some new cards. For about a month I'd have huge review spikes on certain days.
>>
>>135850255

746 in 43 minutes.
>>
>>135850255
I did 100 a day for a couple weeks once.
>>
>>135850350
that's when you install load balancer
>>
>>135850365
>for a couple weeks
Minimum of 14 days, that's 1,400 new cards, geez. You could do Core2k in a month like that
>>
>>135850248

>It's not a bad idea to add every single new word

No, it's a terrible idea and a waste of time to boot. It's like someone studying English who knew exactly what "police" and "station" mean but still spent time separately making a card for "police station".
>>
>>135850255
>>135850360

Oh, new cards.

It was Smart FM, which is core 2k, but I did something like 1200 on the first day because I knew almost all of them anyway.

The most I've added to anki per day is 50 for about two weeks.

My average added is 2.8, though. I spent a lot of time adding none, or just one per day.
>>
>>135850417
You over-exaggerate.
>>
>>135850417
>it's called a police station because police are stationed there
oh my god
>>
I only add interesting rare words and expressions.

What's the point of learning mundane shit when you'll eventually have it hammered down by seeing it over and over? Much better to focus your efforts on exotic words which you might not see again for a while.
>>
>>135850490

Station is also derived from stay.
>>
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>>135850572
>>
>>135850517

Because I don't like reading and will never encounter common words enough to remember them.

All I use Japanese for is the handful of anime I watch per year and pornography.
>>
>>135850606
>and will never encounter common words enough to remember them.
Geez anon
>>
>>135850479

How so? Sure, there are a lot of words with unusual meanings or ways to say them but there are tons that are exactly as straightforward as "police station" including the literal 警察署 itself, assuming you know 警察 beforehand.

All you're doing by adding every single word is massively cluttering up your deck and making your studies take longer for zero reason. Even if they don't take a ton of time to add and review, there are so many of them that the time definitely adds up and they take the focus away from the actual new words that you need to study.
>>
>>135850708
It doesn't actually add that much time and its not a terrible idea, at worst it's a waste of time and because it's not wasting that much time it's less of a terrible idea and more of an unhelpful idea. Exaggeration
>>
>>135850708
You can't argue with these retards, dude. The guy you're talking to almost certainly has a fucking kana deck, and believes it's impossible to just learn things through exposure.

There's no need to add words if you can instantly guess their meaning and reading. All you're doing is cluttering your deck.
>>
>>135850683

I really don't use the language a lot.
>>
>>135850873
You projected pretty hard there, I neither have a kana deck nor do I think it's impossible to learn through exposure. I simply am aware that adding words you're already familiar with won't be that much of a time drain. Will it help you? I don't know, probably not, maybe a little, I really am not making a strong claim either way. I just know for a fact it won't drain a significant amount of time so it's not a big deal.
>>
>>135850778

>at worst it's a waste of time

At worst? It's a waste of time at BEST, at worst the sheer number of cards and often having to pause whatever you're reading to add new words despite you already knowing them will get demoralizing and end up slowly killing your enthusiasm altogether.

The language is time-consuming enough as it is, purposefully making it moreso is completely nonsensical no matter how you look at it.
>>
>>135851027
That's just more exaggeration, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. You've probably wasted more time arguing about this than those who add those words have.
>>
>>135850161
Japanese has that many words. I don't normally add composite words. I try to get expressions though. And you can't really go by kanji meaning, that's just a crutch that will mess up your listening comprehension.
>>
Almost forgot to do my reps today! Don't you guys forget.
>>
>>135850000
>19k 2500
That's really weird if that's the actual word count. Are you sure you're not pressing d instead of s?
>>
>>135848721
>5,758 mature cards in anki, 1459 young
Hmm. How do you determine if a card is worth adding? Just new kanji or something? It sounds nice doing that little anki, but I'm not sure how it would affect my progress. I guess it's fine if I'm NEETing it up and reading all day every day, but my memory is generally pretty crap so I don't know how well it'd work out. Maybe I'll try cutting down my mining to whatever your criteria may be for my next VN since Anki is really the only part I dislike about studying Japanese.
>>
>>135851129

The guy who replied to the first guy has over 12,000 cards more than the guy who already gained a very solid handle on the language. Just looking at those numbers is a much stronger argument than whatever I could come up with.

Even if you wouldn't spend more than one minute per new card total including the time it takes to switch to anki, adding the word, going back to whatever you were doing and then quickly going through the card whenever you encounter it however many times it takes to never see it again, that still adds up to several weeks' or even a couple of months' worth of hours wasted for no reason. You're the one who's exaggerating here if you're trying to compare that nonsense to making short posts on 4chan.
>>
>>135851785
>Even if you wouldn't spend more than one minute per new card total including the time it takes to switch to anki, adding the word, going back to whatever you were doing
I don't disagree with you, but it doesn't take any longer than a second or two to add a word to anki if you're using rikai import. It's more the time spent doing the reviews for said cards if anything.
>>
>>135837439

I've set my interval modifier to 0% to see what happens.

If I understand this correctly, it means that the interval will increase by 1 day only for each correct answer.

This should allow me to power through the huge number of cards that I see all the time but never remember after a certain interval.

When my accuracy approaches 100%, as it should if I temporarily don't add new cards, I can gradually increase the interval modifier to see its effect on accuracy and find a level that allows me to use the deck normally.
>>
>>135851785
With 19k cards I still only do 40-50 minutes of reviews. As a NEET with nothing to do all day it's not a big deal. I spend 2-3 hours every day just writing kanji.
>>
>>135852226
>I spend 2-3 hours every day just writing kanji.
You'll regret that when you're old.
>>
>>135852226

You can do whatever you like with your own time, anon. You can do one new kanji per week and heroin the remaining six days for all the difference it makes to the rest of the world, but it doesn't mean it's a smart idea.
>>
>>135852226
>I spend 2-3 hours every day just writing kanji.
lol
>>
>>135849641
this is one of the valid issues with heisig anon
>>
>>135852226
>I spend 2-3 hours every day just writing kanji.
How? I have around 100 kanji production reviews a day and it usually only takes me 30 minutes.
>>
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>もらってもらえる
>>
>>135852332
Not him, but why?
>>
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>>135852226
>only 19k

Also around 3500 unique kanji.

But of course I'm still learning.
>>
>>135849851
Not him, but in the world of RTK, nothing is as it seems.

Heisig uses the meaning of "flesh" for this radical.
>>
>>135852869
Because you wasted the days of your youth on bullshit.
>>
>>135853043
As opposed to browsing /a/ and fapping every day?
At least this way he'll know Japanese.
>>
>>135853095
You can fap while learning japanese though
>>
>>135852977
Do you feel that anki is still helping you at that point? Or does reading do more?
>>
>>135853043
>regretting anything
Regret is just a waste of time, it doesn't solve anything. Fuck off normie.
>>
>>135853146
Both help. If I wanted to learn vocabulary in my native language it would still be more efficient to use Anki than to read. Same logic applies to Japanese.
>>
>>135851769
If I can't read it, that's literally it. Do I know the kanji but failed to read it (野宿 as やじゅく for example)? Then I add it. Do I not know the kanji and therefore couldn't read it? Then I add it. Do I know the kanji and successfully read it, but didn't know the meaning? I don't add it.

Like I said, this is not necessarily a method I recommend, it's just what I did.
>>
>>135853095
Humans are social creatures. Browsing /a/ to chat with people is normal and acceptable, sitting alone in a dark room drawing kanji in some stinky notebook isn't.
>>
>>135853208

The only problem with this is that anki is mentally strenuous.

Several hours of anki would be many-fold more productive than several hours of reading, but only one of these is really a realistic possibility.
>>
>>135853470
I only do an hour a day at most. That one hour is more efficient to learn Japanese than one additional hour of reading, so I do it.
>>
95% of my reading has been japanese wikipedia articles on kanji and radicals. I'm halfway to being able to read linguistics texts with nothing but rikai, but I don't even understand casual conversations. Help.
>>
>>135853537

I significantly lose the will doing less than 20 minutes per day.
>>
鈍る
鋭く
Is this a fucking joke?
>>
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Today I learned the word 風鈴. What a wonderful word! I love it! It might be my new favorite word.
>>
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>>135853715
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
O I
M F
P F
L E
E R
T E
E N
L T
Y
>>
>>135853715

What's the problem?
>>
>>135853788
He didn't do RTK.
>>
>>135853873
Not true.
>>135853780
LITERALLY INDISTINGUISHABLE
>>
>>135853470
>mentally strenuos
Depends on how you use Anki. It takes me around 20 minutes to do 400 recognition cards. I don't recommend going over 30 minutes a session regardless of whatever card type you're using.
>>
>>135853929
>strenuos
Fuck it I'm going to sleep.
>>
>>135853920
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
>>
>ditched jouyou and start an rtk deck a few days ago
>Its super easy, added almost 300 cards so far
Are the starting kanji just super simple compared the later ones, or does this really work? I knew a solid chunk of these but still pleasantly surprised
>>
>>135849045
Cheers, feel free to take your time, nobody's in a hurry here.
>>
>>135853929

My limit is 17-18 cards per minute.

I know some can do 25 per minute or even more, but I don't know how.
>>
>>135854157
That's 350, which is pretty close
>>
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>>135853727
ふうりんは、音のよさで選ぶなら、金属製を選んだ方がいいとおもうよ。

見た目はガラス製がいいんだけどね。

白磁のものもあるけど、おすすめしない
>>
>>135854200

I start losing the will after mere seconds of it so I have to force myself hard to do my ~20 mins per day.
>>
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>>135847405

It depends on how the beginner knows the native speaker. If they're friends, then it can actually work out. This is how children learn (and get better at) language, with an adult brain it's probably even faster. Here's a video of a guy who learned mandarin-Chinese by speaking to natives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0yGdNEWdn0
>>
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Here's hoping this isn't boring

inb4 >subs
>>
>>135854370
there's this backwater european kid who learned english in three months literally by sitting in the IRC channel for an extremely dead multiplayer indie game
>>
>>135854419
>subs
>>
>>135854370

>TEDx

Trash.

Sam Hyde did a TEDx talk about nothing and no-one noticed the difference.

https://youtu.be/-yFhR1fKWG0
>>
>>135854422
That's how everyone learns English.
>>
>>135854503

>I saw these TEDx clips and thought they were bad
>All TEDx talks are now bad
>No exceptions

Why do people do this?
>>
>>135854157
>17-18 cards per minute.
Fucking hell, my fastest deck is 5 cards a minute.
>>
How do you faggots keep track of how many kanji you mastered?
>>
>>135854724
By the chapter of RTK I'm currently doing.
>>
>>135854724
Kanji grid
>>
>>135854724
Kanji grid
>>
>>135854724
If I see it and know what it means, then I know it.

Sure I forgot one every once in a while, sometimes even easy ones turn vague, but there's nothing to it

Also kanji grid's are for faggots.
>>
>>135854840
but how do you know if you can't even write
>>
>>135854906
Define "know"
>>
>>135854586

Almost all of them have zero content of value. They're just someone rambling.

Maybe a few do, but there's no bar of entry at all, so I'm not going to trust them.
>>
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>>135854599

I started graphing my rate last year. I was on 5 cards per minute like you.

I improved it by just answering a card incorrect if I didn't get in a certain time limit.

I eventually stopped doing that but my rate stayed up.
>>
What's the difficulty rating of LovePlus?

Anybody played it? Worth it?
>>
Is there some kind of exercise tool for conjugating?

Something that shows you a verb i + conjugation to perform, then you type in your answer and it checks it?
>>
>>135855472
Read
>>
>>135854059
Surprise surprise, it's easier to remember a shape and an English word you already know, than a shape and a Japanese word you didn't know.
>>
>>135855566

this really, I have the breeze of a time remembering the english reading of a kanji, but got forbid I try to actually read the kanji properly

And so I started learning vocabulary on the side
>>
>>135855644
So you're doing both a vocab deck and RTK, rendering RTK completely useless? Suit yourself I guess.
>>
>>135855707

basically yes
I use the RTK to learn the kanji and the vocab to actually read it
>>
Is there a RTK deck with Japanese keywords? Would make more sense than English keywords
>>
Are JLPT test completely in Japanese? Questions and all?

trying to find test questions online for N5 (Y^ep, new guy here!) and even questions are in Japanese. Is that what I am to expect in the tests?
>>
Here's how you do mnemonics for Kanji and if you do it any other way you're doing it wrong

Get the Kanjidamage deck, don't learn anything but the english meaning, no readings, just the mnemonic. Once you're through the deck (which should be relatively easy because you only learn menmonics) delete it, don't waste your time doing reps on Kanji themselves
.
The thing that matters is that the passive knowledge of kanji / radicals / mnemonics is somewhere in the back of your mind.

Learning readings on a Kanjideck is retarded as fuck since you're going to learn the readings with actual vocab anyway, doing reps after you finished the kanji / radicals menmonics deck is a waste of time since you're going to refresh your kanji knowledge every time you encounter vocab anyway
>>
>>135855888
Yes it's called core6k.

>>135856350
N1 is completely in Japanese, probably N2 as well. N5 is almost all in English.
>>
>>135855472
I've never seen anything like that, but I wouldn't be suprised if it exists.

Anyway, like >>135855492 implied you'll get used to the conjugations quick so don't worry about memorizing them immediately.
>>
>>135855492
>>135856425

Alright, thanks
>>
>>135856377
>you're going to learn the readings with actual vocab anyway

Just as you're going to learn your voodoo passive knowledge bullshit with vocab as well. Your method is just as wrong as RTK / kanjidamage.
>>
>>135856475

What is your method then?
>>
>>135856475
With KD you don't have to spend anytime on actual recognition. You encounter a new word, chances are you already know what it means based on the kanji, all that's left is the reading. Literally breezing through vocab that way, much less frustration about confusing kanji with each other later down the line
>>
>>135856550
Just straight vocab, going through JLPT lists first for most common words, then reading progressively harder manga and doing more vocab. Your brain is literally a pattern recognition machine, you don't need keywords or whatever to memorize shapes. I will admit that RTK is nice for learning to write kanji though, but mostly because of the order.
>>
>>135856475
best method is to first learn kanji then learn vocab using furigana on the front of the card as an additional cue.

because you already "know" the kanji, the pronunciation is only an additional cue to the meaning. in other words learning vocab in japanese becomes like learning it in french or some other romance language where they use the same alphabet we do.

this is actually how chinese is taught in schools for professionals who don't have time to waste. i don't know why we don't do the same thing for japanese.
>>
>>135856475
How long does it take you to fully learn a word (let's use 地獄 for this example)

If you've done KD you know that it's area(地) + hell(獄) even without looking anything up, and lo and behold, the meaning is hell.

You invest two months for the ability of being able to guesstimate the meaning of most of the unknown vocab you encounter, the reading itself is trivial
>>
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Where do you stand according to this summary?
http://www.jlpt.jp/e/about/levelsummary.html
>>
>>135856792
>i don't know why we don't do the same thing for japanese.
It takes months to learn the kanji and in the meantime you wont be getting better at reading so it's boring
>>
>>135856792
>>135856593
You're doing the exact same thing in two steps, except you're wasting your first 3-6 months of studying because after step 1 you still won't be able to read a damn thing. I don't need to know that 鬱 means depression when I'm a beginner, I need to learn what 食べる means.
>>
>>135856475
So how are you actually recognizing Kanji?

When you see 食, how do you connect the shape to the meaning?
>>
>>135856878
Vocab only learner here. If I saw 地獄 I'd know 地 from words already (obvious ones) and I'd look up 獄 on jisho and see it means hell and then remember that alongside the word meaning.
>>
>>135856885
N1 listening, N3 reading
>>
>>135856377
Why the fuck would you do KD if you disagree with the core concept of learning the readings?

Do one of the retarded RTK decks instead.
>>
>>135856878
>How long does it take you to fully learn a word
As long a time as it takes me to add it to my vocab deck.

地獄 is cherrypicking anyway, what do you do when you see a word where 獄 means prison?

Besides I would already know 地 from other words like 地域, and while i might not know 獄 then this is the word I would learn it with.


>guesstimate the meaning of most of the unknown vocab you encounter, the reading itself is trivial
This I just don't understand how you can believe. pronounciation is by far the hardest part and I say that as someone who hasn't done RTK or KD. There are so many same and similar sounding words that remembering if a word is specifically ちょう or ちゅう or じゅう or じょう is fucking impossible. Recognizing a word based on its kanji is the trivial part.
>>
>>135856906
>>135856910
>months to learn
the answer to this concern is so obvious i find it hard to believe that i need to explain it. learn a few kanji, then learn a few words. wash, rinse, repeat.

for example, for core, you could just take the first 50 cards, first learn the kanji needed for them, and then learn the cards. repeat until done, learning only words and compounds that use kanji you know.

your vocab reps will be much smoother and you will have a much stronger command of kanji in the end.
>>
>>135856982
My brain creates neural pathways or some shit, I don't know? It's automatic. How do you recognize the shapes of the tetris pieces instantly?
>>
>>135857153
I don't see the difference between that and just looking up the meaning of kanji as you see them in words.
>>
>>135857179
That's it? You just keep looking at it until you remember geometric shapes? For every single kanji you have to remember the position and form of geometric shapes?

Do you seriously not understand that "triangle there, 4 lines here, another triangle on top, line to the left, box in the middle" is much more information than "dog + fire + town"?

Jesus fuck I completely get why people criticize learning Kanji on their own, but doubting mnemonics themselves is an entire new level of stupid
>>
>>135857153
Then you're wasting time making your own decks, or doing things completely out of order as the first 50 words of core6k has nothing to do with the first 50 kanji in RTK. As someone mentioned earlier 朋 is nr. 19 in RTK and never used in the real world.


>your vocab reps will be much smoother
This hasn't been my experience at all.

>a much stronger command of kanji in the end.
This I am inclined to believe, but only because you spend more time on kanji. To me, "knowing" kanji has no value, being able to read and converse does.
>>
>>135856878
>area(地) + hell(獄)
I think it's more like earth + hell, but whatever works I guess.
>>
>>135857353
>earth + hell
earth + prison
>>
>>135857297
I don't advocate RTK.

>This hasn't been my experience at all.
I was talking about doing vocab reps with furigana. Have you tried that?
>>
>>135857296
You're putting words into my mouth, and completely misunderstanding to boot. I couldn't tell you how many strokes are in 食 but I sure as fuck can read it any time it comes up.

>For every single kanji you have to remember the position and form of geometric shapes?
Nope, because I have no intention of learning how to write them by hand.
>>
>>135857402
When I see a word in a VN, all I get is the kanji, for example 地獄. I need to practice recognizing that as the word じごく as well as its meaning. Having 地獄 (じごく) on the front of the card seems counter productive to me.
>>
>樹

Is there a reason for why there's so many different Kanji for trees.
>>
For polite negatives, is 〜ないです or 〜なくありません more natural in speech?
>>
>>135857674
Read and find out you shit head
>>
>>135857559
>Having 地獄 (じごく) on the front
Yeah, that's shit.
>>
>>135857709
>Read
>natural in speech

thanks faggot real helpful advice there, got any other hot opinions I should check out?
>>
Why is learning Japanese such a divisive subject?

I've heard that learning English, German, even Chinese is pretty standardized. But even in Japan, not just teaching foreigners, teaching Japanese changes every decade or so, and have multiple ways it's taught in different schools.
>>
>>135857804
The language is retarded, hence every way of teaching it is retarded, hence people constantly point out how retarded different ways of teaching it are
>>
>>135857804

Because there are a shitload of autists learning japanese
All of them looking for the most efficient way of learning
But learning efficiency tends to be rather subjective, so you end up with conflicting suggestions
>>
>>135857296
>mnemonicucks actually believe this
>tfw visual learner
>literally learnt all kanji by looking at them repeatedly for 6~ weeks
>>
>>135857771
Read manga, it's all speech. Read VNs, there's tons of speech. Read LNs, plenty of speech there too. Doofus.
>>
>>135857804
Japanese is a bit fucked up basically being a mix of Chinese and Korean
>>
>>135857804

Its a very retarded language that should have undergone a korean-like reformation ages ago
But it didn't, japs like their traditional and antiquated language, so we labor on
>>
>>135857874
>Korean
Nah, fuck off.
>>
>>135857909
Turkish then
>>
>>135857724
What did you mean then? (Or maybe you're not the guy I replied to, in which case nevermind)
>>
>>135857804

Its a language with no rationalization at all, its a very big "fuck you, this means X because I said so, and it can also mean Y because I also said so" so its frustrating to learn
>>
>>135857887
What do you mean by "korean-like" reformation? I've heard this and looked up how they "simplified" it, but I have a hard time actually picturing that process goes about. What did Korea do exactly to reform an entire language?
>>
>>135858005
Korean removed all kanji
>>
>>135857991
Just like English, eh?
Checkmate, anglos.
>>
>>135858005

One brilliant guy sat in his desk one day and decided to unfuck his language and avoid it becoming a clusterfuck like japanese and chinese

So he managed to turn all of his 5000+ kanji into a simple alphabet

Japan, being honorable, would never allow this
>>
>>135858005
It's called 廃漢毀音
>>
>>135858096

A pine is a pine and it can only be read as "pine", it can't be read as "coconut" in a certain reading
If you put a pine+apple it is pineapple not "laughing dog", if you put house and work together its housework, not "suicide"
>>
>>135857991
That's arguable, there are a ton of sensible things in Japanese, like (practically) exception-less conjugation and the これ、それ、あれ ・・・ ここ、そこ、あそこ words. There's plenty of patterns if you look for them.

>>135858005
Imagine Japanese. Now remove all kanji. You now have korean.
>>
>>135858220
>train
>a vehicle on rails
>also a verb
Uhh englishtards?
>>
>I just learned that ございます is a more polite form of ある

Everything makes so much sense now holy shit
>>
>>135858220
http://spellingsociety.org/uploaded_misc/poems-online-misc.pdf
>>
>>135858605
And http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html
>>
鳩が豆鉄砲を食ったよう
>>
>look up ?然 #words
>like 50 rare kanji
>>
>>135858977

Gotta collect all those rare kanji
>>
お礼ってどうすんだよ?

I've seen this ってどうする at the end of jokes a lot.
Is it really just acting the tsukkomi part of a joke?
>>
>>135858220
Okay.

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/pine
>>
どうぞ、寛いでください
>>
>>135858977
Once I round out all these 常用漢字 I'll become a rare kanji collector too... Just finished grade school, so I only have 1000 left of which I know maybe 200 from out-of-anki studying... Kill me now.
>>
>>135859206
>If you're texting your ex-boyfriend over 50 times a day
Me irl.
>>
>>135859267
I'm at 4K+ and I don't see the point anymore. It's all fish fish fish tree plant insect tree fish and then the occasional animal. I'd like to see some nice cutting off the knees as punishment kanji again.
>>
柳眉
嫣然
困憊
斑点
珊瑚
邂逅
醒める*
天啓*
Rare kanji for you rare kanji kimotas
(don't complain about the * ones)
>>
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>>135859536
>It's all fish fish fish tree plant insect tree fish and then the occasional animal.

thats the spirit!
>>
>>135859331
Please sink already.
>>
>>135859709
>tfw you recognize 2 of the rare ones

Feeling real 啓蒙 right now.
>>
>>135860422
点 and 天?
>>
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Has anyone here read Ao no Kanata no Four Rhythm? Looks like it shouldn't be too difficult compared to the average moege, but I'm just curious if anyone here has read it and can give a relative estimate of its difficulty.

Adaptation is airing this season and I'm conflicted between watching the adaptation for the advertisement it is first or putting the adaptation off and reading it first so I'm not spoiled on anything by the anime.
>>
What's a real wordy manga that you consider good?
>>
>>135861102
It's written in Japanese. That's how difficult it is.
Getting real tired of these posts
>>
>>135861102
Idk, but it sounds really shit.
>>
>first manga I read has several dozen volumes
>initially took me a week to read a single one
>then it took me half a week
>then it took me two days
>then it took me a single day
>Now reading three volumes in around 4 hours
>only ten volumes left

It's a deeply cathartic experience.
>>
>>135859709
Thanks. Here, take these in return.
讒言
瓢箪
瞋恚
惨憺
屹立
草鞋
撥ね
>>
>>135862841
Won't add'm till I see'm in words, sorry. Already knew 屹立 and 撥ね tho
>>
>>135862234
I'm having a similar experience with Flyable Heart. I remember how much of an absolute hell the beginning was, how much I hated Shou's dad for speaking so fast and using such long sentences, and how long it took me to struggle through each sentence relying on the text hooker for almost everything and barely understanding what was going on. Now (currently on the final route, didn't have as much time to read as I did yesterday so looks like I'll be finishing it tomorrow), I'm at the point where as long as I know the vocab in the sentence, I'm able to keep up with his voice acting or even finish reading the line before he finishes talking.

Seeing the absolutely astronomical improvement feels pretty amazing, but at the same time it's kind of sad because you'll never really see that massive of a relative improvement again.
>>
>>135862841
Chinese font fucked me over here
>>
>>135863184
>but at the same time it's kind of sad because you'll never really see that massive of a relative improvement again.
You can glimpse it if you read LOGH at a middle-intermediate level (probably about where you are). The beginning will be FUCKing overwhelming with new vocab
>>
>>135861102
It's a tad harder than your average moege because of the technical explanations of the fictional sport.
>>
>>135863314
>middle-intermediate level (probably about where you are)
Is it really? I figured something like Flyable Heart would still put me at beginner or upper beginner. I guess terms like that are really vague and subjective though.
>>
>>135863621
>I guess terms like that are really vague and subjective though.
Uhh yeah haha, I wouldn't call someone who's like a year in and read a whole VN a beginner, because that's obviously not the beginning. Yeah, hours spent not years spent but still.

Point being, when you're kinda good but not super good LOGH will be a firm challenge that you'll notice huge improvement in after finishing, akin to someone inexperienced reading a VN for the first time.
>>
>>135863184
You seem to have improved much more than I did from reading Flyable Heart. While I do think I've improved, I certainly wouldn't say it is anywhere near astronomical. My reading speed is improved, but I think that is because I don't analyze most lines. I'll read it in my head and just try to get a general idea of the meaning. If I don't understand it, I usually just move on anyway. Sometimes I can keep up with the girls, but the guys all talk way too fast.

I wonder if I am below average, or you are above average. Maybe I would have improved more if I hadn't taken so long to read it. Not that is matters much to me, because as long as I keep going I will make it eventually.
>>
>>135861280
What wrong with questions about language difficulty? If you have a resource that readily lists that sort of thing feel free to share
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>>135864119
The reading list is supposed to be that, but not many people actually use it and it's not completely accurate so I think it's okay to ask questions in the thread for stuff.
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>>135864119
95% of all Japanese is roughly the same difficulty within it's "sphere", i.e. 95% of VNs are the same difficulty, 95% of shounen manga, etc etc. The questions are really not meaningful, you're hardly going to get a helpful answer because in the end it's all written in Japanese and that fact is far more relevant than small bumps of technical vocab or what have you. Asking how hard something is is basically just self-masturbation and pussyfooting around choosing reading material.

And another perspective: Every time a work's difficulty will significantly impact your ability to read and learn from it, it's probably obvious that it's especially hard without even needing to ask (Muramasa for example).
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>>135864319
>statistics straight out of my arse
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>>135864394
It's honestly closer to 99%. It's all Japanese. Everything draws from the same vocab pool and same grammar pool.
>>
Has anyone here read any of the -monogatari series LNs? I know they're generally considered a pretty hard read, but how would you compare them to your average VN/LN text? I'm still fairly new to moon runes but reading them is an eventual goal of mine, and was wondering how much of the "hype" surrounding their difficulty is real
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>>135864455
Sure thing, Einstein.
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>>135864521
I read a bit of Zaregoto, which is by the same author, right?, maybe half a year into learning Japanese and I thought it was pretty fucking difficult.
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>>135858123

You don't want a kana only Japanese.

It is not practical at all.
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>>135864521
I've finished 傷 recently. Don't know about a hype but they're really not that hard. I wouldn't recommend starting with them though. Also there are some references you probably have to look up. (for the west somewhat obscure/older games/anime)
Your goal is pretty reasonable. If you're dedicated enough, I guess you'll be able to read them comfortably (if on screen with OCR) in around two years. If you're a neet most likely much sooner.
Random page from the first one.
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>>135864829

Not a kana only, however they could use the kana as a foundation
More like a complete reformation, grammar included

But of course, its pointless to discuss the "what ifs" since it isn't gonna happen
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>>135865074
>since it isn't gonna happen
Fortunately because Kanji is beautiful and one of the most interesting aspects of Jap.
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>>135865074
>since it isn't gonna happen
In 30 some years pretty much every politican will be different. In 100 years, pretty much everyone alive right now will be dead. Korea and Vietnam have already phased out kanji. It's not unreasonable to assume the same will happen with Japanese. Maybe even Chinese someday.
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>>135864829
Why should it be practical?
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>>135865130
>>135865247

It is also highly inneficient and stops japan from ever having any influence globally which is bad for them both politically and economically.

Keep your subjectivities for yourself please
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>>135865313
>Keep your subjectivities for yourself please
Right back at you and fucking kill yourself shitter
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>>135865313
>It is also highly inneficient and stops japan from ever having any influence globally
THIRD
LARGEST
ECONOMY
You shithead!
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>>135865313
You're a funny guy.
Have you ever heard of chinks? Those are pretty influential even though their entire written language consists of "highly inneficient" characters.
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>>135865313
>Keep your subjectivities for yourself please
This coming from you, after a garbage statement like that? If you think kanji has ANYTHING to do with Japan's global influence I can only assume you are American. I guess the reason Denmark has zero global influence is because they use kanji as well? Maybe talk shit when your country stops having a lower literacy rate than Japan despite their "inneficient" (sic) writing system.
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>>135865535
>>135865460
>>135865438

Yea except this isn't anime you fucking retards. How about you take a look outside your window for once and see what's going on in the real world.
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>>135865642
>If you think kanji has ANYTHING to do with Japan's global influence
>I can only assume you are American.
Are you one to talk about garbage statements when saying something like that?
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>>135865247

So it can actually be read?

Ok, as a beginner, I would have preferred not to have learnt Kanji, but I understand now why it exists.

>>135865074

What problem do you have with grammar? It's extremely simple, consistent, and effective.

The only practical reformation I can see is reducing the number of standard kanji so there are fewer redundancies.
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>>135865247
It's a waste of everyone's time.
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>連れしょん
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>>135865778
What you say to me?
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>>135865838
>>
>>135865772
So are most things in life.
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>>135865778
>連れしょん
New word to add I guess
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>>135865916
Well done.
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>>135865707
Yes?
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>>135866056
The correct answer was no. You lose.
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>>135866056
Yes!
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>>135866076
You can't be dumb enough to think... Actually I'm just getting trolled, right? Okay well played.
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>>135866150
*golf clap*
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>>135866150
I can't be dumb enough to think that the only people ignorant of global politics are Americans?
I imagine halfway through typing that you realized how stupid your own statement was and stopped out of shame. Good thinking.
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>>135866226
Go back to /po/
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>>135866226
Well it seems I struck a nerve anyway, with you and >>135866206

But that's besides the point. Go ahead and explain to me how kanji has any influence on Japan's global presence or influence then. Let's see what you can come up with.
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>>135866383
>Well it seems I struck a nerve anyway
I'm calling you a hypocrite, I'm not personally offended by your statement.
> Go ahead and explain to me how kanji has any influence on Japan's global presence or influence then. Let's see what you can come up with.
I don't agree with him. I am simply calling you a hypocrite. You acted tough about him making garbage statements but made a garbage statement yourself.
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>>135866383
Why explain? You won't learn.
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>>135833715
>>135834336
Between the two of you there is one anon who has had editing access the central DJT guide for god knows how long and the other anon has posted his re-worked guide every now and then over the last few weeks (months?). Want to write a guide on spurning people into taking action? Explain what you've been involved in and use it as a caution for how to not get shit done.
That's the grand irony: all this talk of ideas and now a request for collaboration, which is good, but there isn't really anything to show for it. In contrast to other people who have had access to the guts of DJT, look no further than the anon who compiled the CoR and grammar dictionary stuff, among other things here. While I do remember on and off this anon asking other anons for advice and brainstorming, it was almost always in conjunction with something tangible with momentum already behind it.

Talk is cheap.
Prove me wrong.
Lead by example.
>>
I want to cry.
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>>135866512
It's alright man, we all know your on top of this shit, we're behind you 110% percent. Death to kanji! Hey pass that joint when you're done
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>>135866577
How do you say that in Japanese.
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>>135866471
You know what? Fair enough. But you also quoted
>If you think kanji has ANYTHING to do with Japan's global influence
So I assumed you had a problem with that statement too.

>>135866512
:^)
All you have to do is give one example.
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>>135866692
That was my mistake, I hit Ctrl X instead of Ctrl C, I meant for it to be:
>If you think kanji has ANYTHING to do with Japan's global influence I can only assume you are American.
>I can only assume you are American.
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>>135866632
you're
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>>135865688

>cars from Honda, Toyota, Subaru, and Nisan all over the place
>electronics from Sony in every local electronics and general goods store
>external hard drive from Hitachi in my closet
>Makita tool office right down the road
>Japanese videogames on my computer and on my shelf
>can't drive for ten minutes without seeing a sushi and hibachi joint

Please, tell me more about how looking outside will inform me of Japan's international irrelevance.
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>>135866767
But can you see kanji outside your window? Didn't think so. Check and mate
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>>135866739
What's the plan?
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>>135866861
Crashing this plane, with no survivors.
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>>135865905
Did you make these reaction images yourself? I like them very much. They're so nicely cropped and cleaned, the contrast works perfectly with the Yotsuba B background, the girl is cute, all the features of the images are nicely recognizable even from the thumbnails.
They're excellent reaction images.

What series are they from anyways?
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>>135866767

Sounds to me like you're just a fucking loser weeaboo who surrounds himself with epic japanese media.
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>>135866910
That's zoiko from New Game.
The ones like pic related are from the VN "comyu", and they are just cropped from sprites that were mass-created by a kind anon on /vg/. He has a 2-3gb pack on mediafire somewhere.
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>>135866837
I'll have you know, instead of tendies my mom brought me sushi from a takeaway place yesterday. The chopsticks said 寿司箸 on them. True story.
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>>135866965
neat
>>
ばーか
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>>135867026
So rude.
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>>135867134
It can't be helped.
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>>135866767
That's because they have a high IQ, not because kanji is a good writing system. Japanese scientists use katakana for everything.
>>
道草を食ったらお腹が崩れるよ、お兄ちゃん
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>>135867336
That's because they're a bunch of chuunies who want to talk like the robots in their anime video games.
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>>135867381
Are you serious?
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>>135867537
うん。試さない方がいいと思うよ
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>>135867693
If you say so.
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>>135867381
おなかはくずすものではございません
おなかわこわす、壊すものなのん
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>>135866587
What's wrong anon?
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>~さない
>~なさい
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>>135867804
>>
>>135867804
cute
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>>135867804
Someone do dekinai-chan edit on that picture
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>>135867804
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>>135867952
NICE
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>>135867778
そうでした
ちょっと前に悩んでたところだったの
正しく言うとお腹が壊れるになるんでしょう?
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>>135867977
desu ne
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>>135868204
desu desu
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>>135867871
The what?
>>
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>>135867871
There you go, dude.
>>
How many are still here?
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>>135868411
Change fine to kanji perhaps
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>>135868411
Do a better job.
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>>135868411
Make it fire please.
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Not that other guy, but I tried
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>>135868679
pretty please?
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>>135868840
That is rather good.
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>>135868840
You know... Dekinai-chan is actually pretty cute.
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>>135868851
>>135868840
thanks
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>>135868911
ikr?
>>
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>shitters being too poor to buy wanikani
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>>135868911
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>>135869085
It's not funny.
>>
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>>135868463
Done.
>>