>Everyone seems to praise SHAFT for their stylistic backgrounds
>They're noting but either flat-looking, vectorized garbage or messy paper cutouts like in Madoka, or SZS case
>Out of place 3D CGI objects everywhere
I don't get it, they shit looks cheap as hell, am I missing something here?
Why do people consider this good? It seems like something bought from shutterstock
Only SHAFT backgrounds that get praised are Oishi's because he is very concerned with his backgrounds; his works are always set against sparse, recursive architectural backdrops that convey an impression of infinitude. But due to SHAFT’s culture of imitation, his innovations have spread to other, less capable directors.
This looks rather cool, but I'm not too much into flat and analogous color compositions like that. This looks like a draft to me that's yet to be finished. Something like this but with more depth would be nice.
The backgrounds work for Madoka too. Even before episode 3 the glass-walled "hamster cage" classrooms and how most of the city buildings were either glass or stark white (at least in TV version) and those windmills made things look rather eerie and off-putting.
Both Madoka and Monogatari have themes of isolation and being tormented by inner demons, so it's fitting that they should have similar imagery.
Well it's a TV anime. They can't afford to texture all that stuff. A lot of Shaft's charm is making visually appealing art with cost cutting techniques. Kizu movies look like they have textured backgrounds in the same style.
Oishi's first gig at SHAFT was storyboarding Tsukuyomi Moonphase 25, where he demonstrated strong influence from Nobuyuki Takeuchi in terms of handling space and backgrounds. The technique of obstructing scenes with silhouetted foreground objects, for instance, is something he undoubtedly got from working with Takeuchi. Shortly thereafter, Oishi started displaying a unique sensibility in his storyboards, a minimalism in contrast to Shinbo’s maximalism. Oishi’s storyboards use intertitles, photographed objects, diverse fonts, live action video, Ben Ray dots, medical drawings, vocal distortion, mixed media, and orthogonal camera alignment in an attempt to combine a minimalistic design sensibility with a dense, montage-driven mode of presentation.
Something about the uniform colors, negative space shading, white gradients, and complete lack of the typical outlines or painted textures makes backdrops like these feel more modern. It's different than J.C. Staff or Bones' stuff. Different than what you'd usually see as 'city background' for any given anime.
It's compositionally sound, too. Lead-in lines, 3 distinctive zones, etc.
Not all the backgrounds in Monogatari are this nice, but they give me the same feeling.
People talk shit about 3DCG, but I really like when a studio just goes for it, and does entire environments in full CG. Punch Line had amazing interior backgrounds, and they were all 3D environments.
I didn't understand half of that because I don't have an animation/film studies background, but I did realize I appreciate Monogatari's backgrounds more when I see them as still images, even if they're jarring as part of an animation.
The post you quoted asked why people consider it 'good.' You explained why it was different, or at beast "more modern." Care to elaborate on why that makes it better to you? Because none of those features make that particular piece of artwork fee visually pleasing, or even satisfying, to me.
Interesting, are there any examples or sources for further reading that show the difference to between Oishi to Shinbo approach to storyboarding?
Also I wonder if any of them were influnced by christopher doyle, just food for thought.
Is it time for a good old-fashioned KyoAnus licker beatdown?
SHAFT's surrealist and crude backgrounds convey a feeling of abnormality and loneliness that work immensely well with the absurd or tragic aspect of their most famous works. Even if Monogatari got quite lazy recently, there's something unsettling about the characters of Bakemonogatari being subjected to the whims and wishes of cruel abnormalities in such a crude theatrical setting. Those that don't like the style might do so because the contrast between the realism of the characters and the surrealism of the setting and backgrounds makes the barrier between reality and fiction blurred, therefore creating conflicting emotions about whether to take the situation seriously or not.
I see it this way. People who like cheap looking stuff like this >>135818840 >>135818159 >>135818480 are lovers of the type of modern art garbage that requires little to no skill in a vector program.
People who like detailed stuff are scholars who recognize the amount of work, dedication and skill required to accomplish such art.
This is not to say that all Bake looks garbage, there have been some scenes and backdrops that look great, >>135819346 >>135819959 or pic related, but like a poster said, too many people now get their dirty hands into the franchise and other SHAFT shows trying to recreate the success of the first season of Bake without knowing what actually made it great. Most of the time they end up making it look like a mess with no clear flow or composition, just 'random shit with solid colors and lots of white spaces because that's how bake did it, right?'.
Simplicity can be good some times but when done wrong it looks wrong.
>People who like the same things I do are scholars
>People who like detailed stuff are scholars who recognize the amount of work, dedication and skill required to accomplish such art.
> lovers of the type of modern art garbage that requires little to no skill in a vector program
Good job listing a bunch of irrelevant factors.
So, why the backgrounds are like that, and why it's good? Define good.
If you're looking for an actual thematic reason the backgrounds have that semi-sterile feel to them, it's the same reason there are almost never any people in the background in the whole series (other than saving time/money).
Everything you see in Monogatari is a result of the story being narrated to you by the main character of the given arc. Everything on screen is not real life, but what the narrator remembers, and how they remember it. Typucally, when we retell a story, we tend to exaggerate little details subconsciously, the more we try to remember them. For instance, the train stop; what about that image is surreal?
Everything is all orange, the poles carrying the power lines are white silhouettes, while from the contrast shading you can make out the form of a building connected to train tracks, nothing is given any real detail except, oddly, the barrier arm.
Orange is the dominant colour here because this sequence takes place right at sunset. Araragi remembers the setting sun transforming the town into a gaudy orange, the direct sunlight robbing the scenery of its detail. The hydro posts are nothing more than silhouettes because from his quick glance in that direction, he remembers them being there, but nothing else about them. They simply take up space in the frame. He saw the train stop building, but to him, there was nothing worth remembering about it. Now, at a railway crossing, everyone is taught to look out for the barrier arm; if it's down, that means a train is coming. Evidently, Araragi remembered to check, as both the arm's position and its actual colours appear preserved. It was important at the time, so it retained its detail in his memory.
Things like this are all over in the series.
Shaft's backgrounds are great, I dunno what you guys are talking about
It has to move before it can be cinematography.
>implying paper cutouts don't look fantastic
They are stylistic and mesh well in Madoka thanks to inu curry and ok with Bakemonogatari somewhat thanks to the PPT style.
Everywhere else it looks like crap. In Hidamari Sketch it is definitely not good. We just have to compare Hidamari Sketch to the other SoL that air around the same time with them K-On.
HS has the superior sauce material and it is still on going while K-On got cancelled but we all know in term of anime K-On blows HS out of the water.
>Everyone seems to praise SHAFT for their stylistic backgrounds
No, they say they are surreal. "Stylistic" is vague to the point of being useless, it describes nothing. Anything sufficiently unusual is "stylistic," it doesn't evoke any particular tone or image. Shaft's backgrounds especially those done by Shinbo or inspired by him often contain unusual themes or framing. The pic you posted is a good example. The Araragi family room is for whatever reason rigged like a theater stage with lighting and ladders.
This kind of imagery is used throughout Monogatari, like with Senjougahara's apartment being seen as a bisected diorama. And these are just the recurring backgrounds, to say nothing of the one-off ones (one of my favorites is pic related). The backgrounds are visually interesting and often have stuff going on that's representative or otherwise not literal to the scene. And sometimes it's just bamboozling, like why there's so many solid red objects that serve no purpose in lots of scenes.
Obviously his two lackeys when Team Shinbo was still a thing. So basically Oonuma and Oishi.
Is there anybody else? Nisekoi director? Sakura Trick director? Sankarea director?
Oishi, unless Kizu convinces me otherwise and it doesn't seem like it will. After that Yukihiro Miyamoto.
pic related isn't particularly remarkable, but it's important to note that SS has a running theme of theater set-like environments. Note the stage lights and prop-style arrangement of furniture.
I'm kind of sad for the other studio.
They are trying very hard to do realistic backgrounds, sometimes on a very tight budget, with a small pool of competence. And they are shunned because it's never realistic enough, or good enough. They literally have sleepless nights drawing those again and again and they are only shitted upon.
Then SHAFT comes with cheap and 'surreal' (read: we didn't have the budget, so here we animated three ladders) backgrounds, and they are lauded as the epitome of artistic achievement.
The gatari series appeals to the lowest common denominator of anime fan by combining the preteen pretentiousness of Evangelion with generic haremshit. SHAFT manage to adapt this into their visual work for the series.
it's hardly pretentious, the references and wordplay are about as straightforward and clear cut as you can get
SHAFT making the visuals interesting while scenes of extended dialogue happen is a good thing.
I've always had a soft spot for Oonuma ever since PPD, Natsu no Arashi, and Ef were still a thing.
I think Watamote showed pretty much the extent of how hammy he can get as an old SHAFT director. Which I'm glad to know considering he's pretty much deviated from that style.
I think it's more laudable to make something cheap look good than to aspire for something realistic and failing at it. Ambition should be appreciated and encouraged in artistic mediums, but bigger is not necessarily better.
Obviously some changes are more significant than others*, but they don't just blur photos.
Whole building vanished between real life and drawing on bottom left.
The SHAFT style seems appropriate for Monogatari but is absolute dogshit for soemthing like Nisekoi.
Why do you necessarily equate muh postmodern art fags with people who like Monogatari? Most people would say it's just nice to look at while the characters talk and there's nothing more to it.
Actually Japan looks quite pretty even in the "average" areas. I forgot the guy's name but he posted a bunch of outdoor videos and walks around the town with his cute daughteru that would put anywhere else to shame.
or watch Hibike for the ultimate realistic style
Literally every show that takes place in modern day japan does this. Every single one of them. It takes way too long to make backgrounds for them to just make them out of their imagination.
The position of the TV and the shape of the lamp in this image really bothers me. So does the direction of the shadows.
This is animated, you can do whatever you want.
Really, I hate it when directors don't understand their medium and don't try to use it to the fullest.
Think how great this could have looked, if they had followed one basic rule of visual art..