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>Everyone seems to praise SHAFT for their...
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>Everyone seems to praise SHAFT for their stylistic backgrounds
>They're noting but either flat-looking, vectorized garbage or messy paper cutouts like in Madoka, or SZS case
>Out of place 3D CGI objects everywhere

I don't get it, they shit looks cheap as hell, am I missing something here?
>>
>>135818159
They're often weird and surrealistic so that means that they're good.
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>>135818159
>praise SHAFT for their stylistic backgrounds
>Said no one ever.
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I'm guessing you didn't like Hidamari Sketch either
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>>135818159
>am I missing something here?
its a stage.
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Why do people consider this good? It seems like something bought from shutterstock
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>>135818294
Post an anime with good backgrounds.
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>>135818294
That one looks cool. There doesn't have to be anything more to it than that.
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>>135818323
Why?
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>>135818159
>am I missing something here
No, nothing. It's exactly as it seems. It's shit.

Shaftfags will eat up anything and praise the hell out of it.
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>>135818388
Why not?
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It's called cinematography
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>>135818480
No it isn't.
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Kids these days, they just don't get it.
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>>135818480
>It's called cheap cinematography

fixed
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>>135818159
>messy paper cutouts like in Madoka
You mean gekidan INU CURRY?
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>>135818159
You've got no sense of style or art direction.
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>>135819109
Tell me master why does that image has style and art direction without using buzzwords.
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the minimalist style is pleasing to some
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>>135818159
Only SHAFT backgrounds that get praised are Oishi's because he is very concerned with his backgrounds; his works are always set against sparse, recursive architectural backdrops that convey an impression of infinitude. But due to SHAFT’s culture of imitation, his innovations have spread to other, less capable directors.
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>>135819346
This looks rather cool, but I'm not too much into flat and analogous color compositions like that. This looks like a draft to me that's yet to be finished. Something like this but with more depth would be nice.
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>>135819346
The backgrounds work for Madoka too. Even before episode 3 the glass-walled "hamster cage" classrooms and how most of the city buildings were either glass or stark white (at least in TV version) and those windmills made things look rather eerie and off-putting.

Both Madoka and Monogatari have themes of isolation and being tormented by inner demons, so it's fitting that they should have similar imagery.
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>>135819566
Well it's a TV anime. They can't afford to texture all that stuff. A lot of Shaft's charm is making visually appealing art with cost cutting techniques. Kizu movies look like they have textured backgrounds in the same style.
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>>135819691
Re. Madoka: Didn't someone once say that a movie that starts out in a white room never ends well?
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>>135819187
At times their anime more resemble '60s American animation in their flatness and primary colors. That's actually a compliment; I'm a fan of Midcentury Modern design.
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>>135819566
Oishi's first gig at SHAFT was storyboarding Tsukuyomi Moonphase 25, where he demonstrated strong influence from Nobuyuki Takeuchi in terms of handling space and backgrounds. The technique of obstructing scenes with silhouetted foreground objects, for instance, is something he undoubtedly got from working with Takeuchi. Shortly thereafter, Oishi started displaying a unique sensibility in his storyboards, a minimalism in contrast to Shinbo’s maximalism. Oishi’s storyboards use intertitles, photographed objects, diverse fonts, live action video, Ben Ray dots, medical drawings, vocal distortion, mixed media, and orthogonal camera alignment in an attempt to combine a minimalistic design sensibility with a dense, montage-driven mode of presentation.
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>>135818294
Something about the uniform colors, negative space shading, white gradients, and complete lack of the typical outlines or painted textures makes backdrops like these feel more modern. It's different than J.C. Staff or Bones' stuff. Different than what you'd usually see as 'city background' for any given anime.

It's compositionally sound, too. Lead-in lines, 3 distinctive zones, etc.
Not all the backgrounds in Monogatari are this nice, but they give me the same feeling.
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>>135818480
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Owari wasn't great for cinematography. Tsuki and Koi, maybe.
Kizu soon
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>>135819693
People talk shit about 3DCG, but I really like when a studio just goes for it, and does entire environments in full CG. Punch Line had amazing interior backgrounds, and they were all 3D environments.
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>>135818480
Is the reason he doesn't have any shadow because he's a vampire or the animator forget to add it?
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>>135819959
I didn't understand half of that because I don't have an animation/film studies background, but I did realize I appreciate Monogatari's backgrounds more when I see them as still images, even if they're jarring as part of an animation. Thank you.

>>135820676
The post you quoted asked why people consider it 'good.' You explained why it was different, or at beast "more modern." Care to elaborate on why that makes it better to you? Because none of those features make that particular piece of artwork fee visually pleasing, or even satisfying, to me.
>>
so am i a pleb for loving this art style?
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>>135821541
no, you're an enlightened scholar.

plebs are the ones that think all art has to look like the Mona Lisa and don't understand anything other than art that imitates reality.
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>>135821541
No, in fact you have quite refined taste.
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>>135821743
So in other words Kyoanuspluggers.
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>>135821541
No it's really nice to look at.
It suits -Monogatari well. Some other anon stated why before but that was a few years back and I can't remember exactly what was said.
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>>135821541
Like what you want to like.
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>>135819959
Interesting, are there any examples or sources for further reading that show the difference to between Oishi to Shinbo approach to storyboarding?

Also I wonder if any of them were influnced by christopher doyle, just food for thought.
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>>135821541
Yer a pretentious elite patrician like us.
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>>135821829
Is it time for a good old-fashioned KyoAnus licker beatdown?
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>>135821541
>feelsman
Fuck off.
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>>135821541
Nah man. The backgrounds are great.
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>>135821541
SHAFT's surrealist and crude backgrounds convey a feeling of abnormality and loneliness that work immensely well with the absurd or tragic aspect of their most famous works. Even if Monogatari got quite lazy recently, there's something unsettling about the characters of Bakemonogatari being subjected to the whims and wishes of cruel abnormalities in such a crude theatrical setting. Those that don't like the style might do so because the contrast between the realism of the characters and the surrealism of the setting and backgrounds makes the barrier between reality and fiction blurred, therefore creating conflicting emotions about whether to take the situation seriously or not.
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>>135821743
>>135821781
I see it this way. People who like cheap looking stuff like this >>135818840 >>135818159 >>135818480 are lovers of the type of modern art garbage that requires little to no skill in a vector program.

People who like detailed stuff are scholars who recognize the amount of work, dedication and skill required to accomplish such art.

This is not to say that all Bake looks garbage, there have been some scenes and backdrops that look great, >>135819346 >>135819959 or pic related, but like a poster said, too many people now get their dirty hands into the franchise and other SHAFT shows trying to recreate the success of the first season of Bake without knowing what actually made it great. Most of the time they end up making it look like a mess with no clear flow or composition, just 'random shit with solid colors and lots of white spaces because that's how bake did it, right?'.

Simplicity can be good some times but when done wrong it looks wrong.
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>>135822673
>People who like the same things I do are scholars
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>>135822673
>People who like detailed stuff are scholars who recognize the amount of work, dedication and skill required to accomplish such art.
> lovers of the type of modern art garbage that requires little to no skill in a vector program
Good job listing a bunch of irrelevant factors.
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>>135821950
Always.
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>>135819959
>>135819346
>people literally responding to some faggola copy pasting tamerlane420
and this guy agreeing
>>135822673
because he used fancy words
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>>135818159
Shinbo cocksuckers.
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>>135818159

Don't forget the head on receding view with the character dead center ala a Shin Megami Tensei encounter
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>>135821150
So, why the backgrounds are like that, and why it's good? Define good.
If you're looking for an actual thematic reason the backgrounds have that semi-sterile feel to them, it's the same reason there are almost never any people in the background in the whole series (other than saving time/money).

Everything you see in Monogatari is a result of the story being narrated to you by the main character of the given arc. Everything on screen is not real life, but what the narrator remembers, and how they remember it. Typucally, when we retell a story, we tend to exaggerate little details subconsciously, the more we try to remember them. For instance, the train stop; what about that image is surreal?
Everything is all orange, the poles carrying the power lines are white silhouettes, while from the contrast shading you can make out the form of a building connected to train tracks, nothing is given any real detail except, oddly, the barrier arm.

Orange is the dominant colour here because this sequence takes place right at sunset. Araragi remembers the setting sun transforming the town into a gaudy orange, the direct sunlight robbing the scenery of its detail. The hydro posts are nothing more than silhouettes because from his quick glance in that direction, he remembers them being there, but nothing else about them. They simply take up space in the frame. He saw the train stop building, but to him, there was nothing worth remembering about it. Now, at a railway crossing, everyone is taught to look out for the barrier arm; if it's down, that means a train is coming. Evidently, Araragi remembered to check, as both the arm's position and its actual colours appear preserved. It was important at the time, so it retained its detail in his memory.

Things like this are all over in the series.
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>>135818323
http://imgur.com/gallery/0pAKV
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Shaft's backgrounds are great, I dunno what you guys are talking about
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>>135818840
It has to move before it can be cinematography.
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>>135825910
THE HEART
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>>135825756
What a waste. Owari has to be one of the worst anime I've watched in my life.
>>
>implying paper cutouts don't look fantastic
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>>135818159
No idea.
They are stylistic and mesh well in Madoka thanks to inu curry and ok with Bakemonogatari somewhat thanks to the PPT style.

Everywhere else it looks like crap. In Hidamari Sketch it is definitely not good. We just have to compare Hidamari Sketch to the other SoL that air around the same time with them K-On.
HS has the superior sauce material and it is still on going while K-On got cancelled but we all know in term of anime K-On blows HS out of the water.
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>>135818159
>Everyone seems to praise SHAFT for their stylistic backgrounds
No, they say they are surreal. "Stylistic" is vague to the point of being useless, it describes nothing. Anything sufficiently unusual is "stylistic," it doesn't evoke any particular tone or image. Shaft's backgrounds especially those done by Shinbo or inspired by him often contain unusual themes or framing. The pic you posted is a good example. The Araragi family room is for whatever reason rigged like a theater stage with lighting and ladders.

This kind of imagery is used throughout Monogatari, like with Senjougahara's apartment being seen as a bisected diorama. And these are just the recurring backgrounds, to say nothing of the one-off ones (one of my favorites is pic related). The backgrounds are visually interesting and often have stuff going on that's representative or otherwise not literal to the scene. And sometimes it's just bamboozling, like why there's so many solid red objects that serve no purpose in lots of scenes.
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So which one of Shinbo's proteges do you like the most?
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>>135829871
Onuma and Oishi are the only ones who's names I remember. Are any others worth knowing?
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>>135829871
Oishi seems the most competent.
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>>135829871

Obviously his two lackeys when Team Shinbo was still a thing. So basically Oonuma and Oishi.
Is there anybody else? Nisekoi director? Sakura Trick director? Sankarea director?
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>>135829871
Oishi, unless Kizu convinces me otherwise and it doesn't seem like it will. After that Yukihiro Miyamoto.

>>135818159
pic related isn't particularly remarkable, but it's important to note that SS has a running theme of theater set-like environments. Note the stage lights and prop-style arrangement of furniture.
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>>135821054
What about Re-Kan?
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>>135829871
Oishi I guess, I have high hopes for Kizu
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I'm kind of sad for the other studio.

They are trying very hard to do realistic backgrounds, sometimes on a very tight budget, with a small pool of competence. And they are shunned because it's never realistic enough, or good enough. They literally have sleepless nights drawing those again and again and they are only shitted upon.

Then SHAFT comes with cheap and 'surreal' (read: we didn't have the budget, so here we animated three ladders) backgrounds, and they are lauded as the epitome of artistic achievement.
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>>135818159
The gatari series appeals to the lowest common denominator of anime fan by combining the preteen pretentiousness of Evangelion with generic haremshit. SHAFT manage to adapt this into their visual work for the series.
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>>135818159
>messy paper cutouts like in Madoka

Holy shit you're a massive retard. 10/10 I'm actually mad.
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>>135830334

The One Punch Man audience, everyone
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>>135830351
it's hardly pretentious, the references and wordplay are about as straightforward and clear cut as you can get

SHAFT making the visuals interesting while scenes of extended dialogue happen is a good thing.
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>>135829871
I've always had a soft spot for Oonuma ever since PPD, Natsu no Arashi, and Ef were still a thing.

I think Watamote showed pretty much the extent of how hammy he can get as an old SHAFT director. Which I'm glad to know considering he's pretty much deviated from that style.
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>>135830502
If pretentiousness was an asshole, gatari would be a steaming turd.
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>>135830726
What even is this post
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>>135830776
confused bait perhaps
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>>135818159
Still better than KyoAni's "backgrounds", which are just blurred photos.
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>>135830334
>it has to be realistic or it's shit
Can someone explain this to me?
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>>135830334
I think it's more laudable to make something cheap look good than to aspire for something realistic and failing at it. Ambition should be appreciated and encouraged in artistic mediums, but bigger is not necessarily better.
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>>135830851
Obviously some changes are more significant than others*, but they don't just blur photos.

*Whole building vanished between real life and drawing on bottom left.
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>>135832057
They must have some way of generating lineart from photos then using that as the base for their background paintings.
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>>135818323
Railgun S has amazing backgrounds.
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>>135830502
Monogatari is definitely pretentious. Every arc has some life lesson about how you must conform with society.
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>>135832410
can you give a specific example?
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>>135832410
>Every arc has some life lesson about how you must conform with society.
So, is it alright to fuck your siblings in today's society?
>>
it suits monogatari's atmosphere

it feels completely out of place in stuff like Nisekoi, good thing they toned it down in later episodes
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>>135832057
>it's real
I'm ready anons
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>>135830334
>cheap
No
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>>135832057
>literally just copy RL
so inventive
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>>135832057

Doesn't that fit in with their series anyway? I mean, I think it's meant to have this familiar feel to it. Plus real locations. I'm not against or for either.
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>>135832057
Jeez, Japan looks so fucking average and normal in real life.

IT'S NOTHING LIKE MY ANIMES AT ALL
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>>135830334
cheap post
>>
The SHAFT style seems appropriate for Monogatari but is absolute dogshit for soemthing like Nisekoi.

Why do you necessarily equate muh postmodern art fags with people who like Monogatari? Most people would say it's just nice to look at while the characters talk and there's nothing more to it.

>>135834137
Actually Japan looks quite pretty even in the "average" areas. I forgot the guy's name but he posted a bunch of outdoor videos and walks around the town with his cute daughteru that would put anywhere else to shame.

or watch Hibike for the ultimate realistic style
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>>135833611

Literally every show that takes place in modern day japan does this. Every single one of them. It takes way too long to make backgrounds for them to just make them out of their imagination.
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>>135818480
The position of the TV and the shape of the lamp in this image really bothers me. So does the direction of the shadows.
This is animated, you can do whatever you want.

Really, I hate it when directors don't understand their medium and don't try to use it to the fullest.

Think how great this could have looked, if they had followed one basic rule of visual art..
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>>135818159
>Spend millions of rising sun bucks to pay people animate an LN
>expecting profit from it
>"hey let's use garbage for the backgrounds"

risk-taking bravery
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