>>135705999 >Dragon Ball was a mess too True, but at if you read the actual manga, fights at least feel like they're progressing from chapter to chapter. Why does feel Bleach feel like less of a slog than DB?
>>135706052 The structure of DB is straighforward, traditional. MC comes and beats the villain. Nothing else. And that's enough because Toriyama was fucking good with fights.
Bleach was like that at first too. That's why SS is a cool arc, because the premise is simple: MC and his friends running against the clock to save their friend. After that, Kubo has become too pretentious. Naruto had the same problem.
>>135706540 >In the Soul Society arc noone could fly. Why Ichigo needed the wing and cape from Yoruichi.
No, you retard, they couldn't "fly" (it's just air-walking with reishi btw) within the walls of the Seireitei, because the barrier created by the Sekki-Sekki walls prevented it (without the use of a special tool, like the one Yoruichi provided Ichigo).
Air-walking had been a thing since Chapter 1; we see Ichigo do it while fighting his first Hollow.
>>135706271 No I'm not. The whole series has a very simple narrative. The writing is not perfect, of course, but never tries to be more than a "hero x villain" thing. The first phase is lighter, but still is Goku beating bad guys in cool fights.
That's literally not the issue with Bleach. This is from coming from someone who still follows it for god knows what reason but the main issues that affect it are:
The release schedule, Bleach is fine in volume form but is a slog from week to week because Kubo enjoys his reaction images and setup panels too much.
The predictable fight patterns, Bleach is basically turn-based combat aside from a handful of fights and it's basically whoever has the most trump cards wins.
The fucking asspull powers every goddamn time. Character is about to die but they suddenly whip out their "full" power until they're about to die again then they use their secret technique and either win or lose depending on who they're facing.
General powerlevel nonsense. And the fact that almost all side characters can keep up despite peaking out in ability centuries prior to the start of the series.
Whatever the fuck Ichigo is and the biweekly reveal that he's got more junk shoved in his body than Mayuri's got up his ass.
The interesting characters rarely get the focus and when they do it's only for a chapter or even part of a chapter before it switches to something else.
And there are other glaring issues but those are the most recurring ones Bleach has. Kubo's attempt at deepening the plot is hit or miss but more often than not it's entertaining in one way or another. Best chapters were when Aizen was in his prime and doing his thing. The worst weekly ones are the fights, this always has been and always will be because of how much Kubo likes to try and set the mood.
>>135707361 >The fucking asspull powers every goddamn time. Character is about to die but they suddenly whip out their "full" power until they're about to die again then they use their secret technique and either win or lose depending on who they're facing. It honestly amazes me how this literally got worse over time
>>135711834 >Character is about to die but they suddenly whip out their "full" power until they're about to die again then they use their secret technique and either win or lose depending on who they're facing.
How does this not apply at least in some way to every other Battle Shounen in existence? Seems to be more of a genre complaint than a specific complaint about Bleach.
>>135712439 You'd need to explain further or use specific examples from the manga to make your point.
I can understand if you've seen enough battle shounen to know when a trope is being overplayed, but cliches aren't always a bad thing if the execution is done well. I think Kenpachi using Kendo against Nnoitra is my favorite example of this in Bleach.
>>135713638 Not really trying to get off topic here, but I didn't think I'd have to explain how One Piece is an endless cycle of 1)travel to place 2)meet nakama 3)fight bad guys 4)go to next place, repeat ad nauseum.
Well, lets see here, last month we had the nigger bird, he used some kind of godlike power we never seen before, even kyouraku bankai was not enough to kill him.
And what is kubo solution to this battle? Asspuling some bullshit with a character that was never relevant in more than 600 chapters.
People were rushing to make theories about how "deep" the plot was when kubo pulled the whole "zangetsu is juha back" shenanigan, but you cant defend nanao and her sword who can kill gods.
Nanao getting a sword that just happens to be effective against this enemy no one has ever seen before is bad enough, the fact that the nigger bird kept making attacks despite knowing that the sword could reflect his power is even more retarded.
>>135715386 That was a very simplified description, One Piece is even more formulaic than that. Go to new island, meet oppressed towns people and befriend them, Luffy gets stuck somewhere, Zoro fights the 2IC, Sanji fights the 3IC, Luffy arrives to fight the final boss, final boss gets beat but doesn't die, they get a new nakama and then on to the next island.
Obviously not every single arc follows this pattern but too many major arcs do, it's predictable to the point that it's boring. The series is saved by a good overarching plot but on a smaller scale it's too repetitive.
>>135716821 it's not really about a good plot per se, a guy trying to be Pirate King isn't all that interesting in itself what makes One Piece great is world building the history, social/political structure, even fucking geography of its world is incredibly interesting
>>135714086 Actually you can. The sword is what made the Soul King lost his limbs in the first place. The Ise clan is most likely one of the five noble families. The ancestors of the five noble families together with Ichibee and their family weapons, which all are actually connected to the Soul King somehow, to disperse his powers into all directions, which gave birth to Pernida etc, so he could be weak enough to be imprisoned in crystal prison and act as lynchpin. Also the Nanao's surname Ise is actually named after a real life place and line of pristess which are connected to the regelia of Japan and the Yata mirror.
>>135717311 The history of Bleach and Soul Society is extremely interesting, with the creation and story of the Soul King, how the First Blood War began and what happened there. Even the world of living is actually very different from the real world.
>>135717311 One Piece has enough strengths that I understand the appeal but for me, it's faded a lot over time. I just want something different and unexpected to happen because I love the world and characters, I can only stay entertained by the same shit for so long.
>>135705922 Dragon Ball has a shit ton of flaws, but it's always been fun since day one and you can't deny that. Bleach is just too slow paced, the history gets way to complex way too early and the characters are not that engaging.
>>135718379 Well I just get really fucking bored during the middle section of big arcs, because it's just match up fights of no importance to the plot. Why should I care what happens when I know the strawhats will win? What's the point of even reading the fights between side characters unless I'm into the story specifically for the fights (and I'm not)? They have no lasting emotional or narrative impact, they're just there to take up space.
I like the character interactions and the comedy so usually I enjoy the beginning and end of the arc when things are building up/winding down.
>>135717785 Yep it's really repetitive, but only when the arc begins, once the story develops it gets really interesting in every single arc. The only arc that really bored me was the Fishman Island, it only got interesting when they started talking about Poseidon.
One piece hasan't really gotten any worse, besides the pacing. It just most probably remember the Whitebear war and Impel down the best and are using that as measuring stick. The thing is though, that both are not the norm, but Oda's best and also the cimax of the first half. It's doubtfull, that Oda can do something better or even equally good until Raftel or the Vegapunk. One Piece is still decent though, but honestly in 2015 Bleach was better. 2014 was One Piece better though, except for the Ichibee and Giselle fights. 2013 was again Bleach better and I think 2012 they were equal though.
>>135719149 Damn, there are so many typos. One Piece hasn't really gotten any worse actually. It's just that most probably the Whitebeard war and Impel down the best and are using that as measuring stick.he thing is though, that both are not the norm, but Oda's best and also the cimax of the first half. It's doubtful, that Oda can do something better or even equally good until the eventuell Raftel or the Vegapunk arc. One Piece is still decent though, but honestly in 2015 Bleach was better. 2014 was One Piece better though, except for the Ichibee and Giselle fights. 2013 was again Bleach better and I think in 2012 they were equal.
>>135723254 The build is gradual. Take the Elites for example, 2/4 being actual pieces of the Soul King was something that would have made no sense if we weren't given the proper build up with Ukitake and the missing limbs.
>>135717548 eh, i don't know, it's explained in a too episodic and chaotic way for my liking in One Piece, instead, its a vital part of the plot, and every single arc has had its significance for the explaining of the world
>>135723360 Ideally you should try to read many different types of manga, as well as other shounens. One piece is well liked but there are many high quality titles out there, unfortunately this isn't a rec thread
>>135723360 You might find it grows on you, or it might not be your style. I think One Piece is one of the rare manga that gets better and better as it goes on.
The lore is decent, but what really sells me is the characters. There's gotta be thousands at this point and almost all of them are well designed and interesting enough to hold your attention for as long as they're around.
>>135724070 People say the same shit about the zabuza arc. I don't really get it though, it's not like the manga really got worse or less interesting at that point. Unless you're talking about the anime, in which case you have no business trying to discuss anything.
>>135724350 Usually I see people say the Chunin Exam is when Naruto peaked. I would go further and say the Rescue Gaara arc was the last peak before it dove straight into the depths of hell with the the Sasuke arc that followed.
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