Reasons why S2s don't get made.
How do you feel about the reasons described in this article?
Just stop making anime altogether, why would japs pay 100$ for two episodes of mediocre animation when you can buy the whole manga series with better art and then get a steak dinner for the same money?
Making original anime is even riskier. For one thing, since there's no pre-existing material to boost, a series needs to rely more on actual sales, merchandise, and manga/LN/game/etc. adaptations (if any) than anime adaptations.
You can buy complete western series for 50 or 80 dollars and they sell well. Anime BDs don't, because barely anyone is willing to spend 20 dollars for 3 - 4 episodes and it's way more expensive in Japan.
>bluray cost 700$
>fucking CGI,moe shit and quality everywhere
>why can't we sell bluray
>>Oh shit, it all makes sense now, how could I have been so blind?
Yeah, but the point is this >>135620765
People like to say that S2 will get made cause the source material got boost. Now we can see it doesn't work like that.
Don't they get the budget from the book publishers? Why would they only spend their own money when it's well known that most anime are only boosting the manga sales and nothing more? The manga publishers are the ones benefiting from the anime.
>while the manga that didn't pay a single yen does
Publishers at the one who invest the most money on making the anime. They are literally paying your salary so shut the fuck up retard.
It's stupid anyway since a s2 won't boost it that much as s1 did anyway. The first season informs casuals or the bigger audience that a manga story exists, which is what boosts the sales - they already know that after s1 which is why there is no guarantee that s2 will cause a big boost anymore.
With western television, stuff like BDs and home releases are almost an afterthought. It's all about network ratings. While it has its faults, that seems to be a much healthier alternative than what Japan's been smoking for years.
Let me translate what she said :
>BAWWWW WAHHHH nobody wants second seasons of the shit I produce.
There, that's much more accurate. Of course low-selling anime can get a second season if the manga/LN sales are good, Chihayafuru is just one example.
Maybe it's just that the blu-rays are so fucking expensive that people would rather go and buy the manga/LN instead.
Maxbe they shouldn't only appeal to that niche then. I think anime is way too focused on certain audiences.
Just count all the harems or synopses that contain "* was a normal high school boy until he met a mysterious girl that..".
They do, in the sense that the production committee almost always includes the publisher of the manga. So the thing gets funded in the first place with the help of the manga publisher, so to a certain extent this is whining about their lack of leverage in negotiating the production deal. They could either negotiate for a percentage of manga sales or get the publisher to assume more of the production risk, but these guys are all desperate. There are too many of these animation companies, they should consolidate and improve their ability to negotiate.
idk man, I feel cheated if I bought a blu-ray only to get 2-3episodes for about 70 bucks. Even in the west people aren't always 100% okay with buying a whole season of anything for like 40 bucks.
>Hey man we only have a small market for our products! Should we
>A. Actually attempt to increase our market by targeting new demographics
>B. Competing with other companies with high quality products to win in our niche
>C. Complain to the niche market that they're not investing enough money in us (threats are fine too)
That's fair, I think they should come up with some alternatives.
I'm sure BD prices are sky high and some people just won't pay that also with piracy being high as ever they should try something else.
Yeah that's why I was talking about the niche shit. Anime are that expensive because they only appeal to otaku instead of a broader audience and there isn't much stuff those otaku can buy. They get like 40 series which target them each season and they can't buy more than maybe two of those so there have to be 30 series at least that sell like shit every season.
The problem is that this is a whole industry that only centers around the fat asses of a few 10k people.
that's a lot of complaining, and i understand but if that's all true then why is there so much anime? literally every season we're showered with shows that get a season 1 and then never get a season 2. and its always the same studios, always the same people, if their previous show didn't sell shit, why do they think a new one will? and why do they keep adapting shitty LNs that will obviously never sell, i mean we've been on this shit for years now, every season there's some LN adaptation that doesn't sell squat, yet they keep being pumped out.
That's what I said. No adult will keep watching same LN adaptation every season and don't have a time or isn't in a mood to go through all the shit to find a worthwhile series. Especially when he can go and pick random popular seinen manga to get as much entertainment from it.
And the companies are at fault, because they turned market into bunch of drooling retards who only care about visually appealing girls, especially when it concerns idolshit anime.
A lot of anime studios appears to be run by nerds who can't let go of the whole doujin aspect, thinking "they're doing it for the fans". As much as they hate KyoAni atleast they realized the importance of marketing, brand development and took it seriously.
Thing is the otaku market is for the most part inelastic. While most people stay away from the BDs, there will always be that segment which is willing to pay for such things at such prices, and this segment is what they cater too. I think I read somewhere that they either tried or discussed about lowering prices, and it turned out that in the long run lowering their prices in that market would have a relatively minimal impact on sales, at the cost of decreased profits. At the end of the day, the anime industry is still a business, and the first priority of a business is to make money. Surely there could be other revenue streams but while they could work with other media (such as kids anime and pretty much any other Japanese TV show) it might not be the case for late night anime.
>make niche anime
>get surprised that it doesn't sell
Reminder that anime films and series targeted are broader audience always sell good, ALWAYS. Even if they are terrible and look like shit. Example: every anime movie projected at theatre ever and pretty much all of TOEI's portfolio.
Therefore solution to the problem of low selling volume --> make better anime. WOAH
Difference is that anime is too niche for that, regular working adults in Japan won't watch anime, even if it were on some big name premium channel.
The industries problem is that it's too large for it's own good, after the boom in the 2000's a lot more anime started being made with out a corresponding increase in number of people willing to buy the product.
What needs to happens now is for the industry to slow down and start pushing less product until they can figure out how to generate more paying customers or some effective alternative revenue sources.
It's an option but there is not so much to discuss about things that haven't even started yet. Not to mention that they don't have fans yet since nobody knows how the series will be.
For the customers:
1.) BDs are too expensive
2.) There’s too many anime being made
3.) But the audience don’t even consider buying
On the business side:
3.) There’s no substitute for BDs as a source of revenue
4.) There’s no place for anime that take time to make in an era where fads come and go
Again, if anime stuios actually knew how to do business instead of being a bunch of art school nerds they'd have gotten far more revenue from the international market. Now they're selling rights to charlatans like crunchyroll for what I assume are peanuts.
>Even streaming, which was supposed to be a ray of hope to the industry, isn’t strong enough to be a revenue generator…
They've tried and failed. Maybe what they need to do is to relax their piracy laws, which are pretty draconian.
I was referring to original anime. I think you may have misread my post.
This is more anime related that those "just finished [name of anime] and I thought it was..." sadly.
>Reminder that anime films and series targeted are broader audience always sell good, ALWAYS
That's completely false though, anime targeted at broader audiences ( which includes a lot more anime than you think ) flops just as often as late night otaku shit, and anime movies are terribly expensive to make, and hard to make a return on unless you have Hayao Miyazaki's name plastered on it.
If no normal people are watching the anime since they don't have time or etc, then why are they buying the manga and why it is increasing in sales, but the Blu-rays aren't?
The answer is simple. You get more content at a much cheaper price and you can basically read manga where ever you want without disrupting people around you. This is why Blu-rays sell way way sell.
Rentals are popular in Japan. Many anime fans over there just rent an interesting anime on BD for a much lower price if they want to see it. Buying the BDs is reserved for collectors and those who genuinely want to support the anime. Everyone wins.
I say fuck that anime for existing. I'm not about to watch an anime adaptation of a visual novel written by Romeo of all people, released before the damn source material is even out. I'm gonna skip the anime and read the damn visual novel like everyone else who actually cares.
>This is why Blu-rays sell way way sell.
If it goes like this, isn't Kyoani the winner on every sides?
They adapt 'their own stuff', and sell their own merch, plus they get fairly decent BD sells. If I remember correctly, they don't go through Aniplex too.
Honestly, I can't think of any scenario where this setup turned out well and the manga was able to get more animation aside from 3 specific cases:
>Inuyasha -> Inuyasha the Final Act
>Attack on Titan
Though, honestly Inuyasha should just be lumped in with the other shonen that got really long runs.
It also leaves a lot of fans that got into the manga disappointed as they know they will never see the rest of it animated cause they didn't buy the blu-rays.
Also, remember that in Japan it's pretty much only otaku who buy BDs in the first place. For pretty much everything else (including kids' anime) they still mostly sell on DVD.
I think it was the anon who was mistaken then. From context I think he was referring to original anime.
Also note that the anime will only cover a prologue of sort - the part at school. The heroine's routes that cover working at an eroge company won't be in the anime. So the obvious goal is to use the anime to make as people as possible buy the VN, it even comes out just as the anime ends. But Western watchers are screwed.
What happens is that the rights holders for a different product pay the anime company for making a new adaptation. While the anime companies don't make much money off of the current system, manga and LN publishers do. This is why we see so many adaptations and so little anime original works, unless someone else is willing to foot the bill there's just no money in anime originals. Doesn't help either that many of the highest selling anime have historically been adaptations, furthering the incentives.
there's no season 2 because japs are butt fucking retarded
look at madhouse, they never fucking make season 2 of anything, but EVERY FUCKING SEASON there's a new show by them
seriously, they're fucking deluding themselfs if they thing the consumers are the problem
Yea, that's why Psycho-Pass, Gintama, Madoka, PreCure, Lupin, and many others, sells out movie theatres like crazy. You must be pretty uninformed to believe that regular cartoons, not the ones aimed at adults and aired at 3am, are unprofitable and unpopular.
Most anime from what I've heard can't recollect the cost of making. What studios do is that they're searching for the rare gems that make up for several failed shows worth of money. Second seasons very rarely make more money than the first, so it's a failed bet even before it started.
More like there are different kinds of anime for different demographics. It's just our kind happens to be niche.
There are plenty of anime that don't rely on BD\DVD sales at all and are targeted at kids, like most anime used to be in the past. It's just /a/ doesn't talk a lot about those.
>If it goes like this, isn't Kyoani the winner on every sides?
It's not easy to say. They do actually have lot of in-house employees which can help keeping initial investment low. I personally doubt, they can produce multiple series alone on their own revenue. Especially when their LN brands is competing with giants like Kadokawa.
Don't! He's part of the strongest race in the world!
>Yea, that's why Psycho-Pass, Gintama, Madoka, PreCure, Lupin, and many others, sells out movie theatres like crazy.
Yeah but how many similar shows flop? Almost every season there is some new little kids cartoon, or drama, or comedy, and most of them flop. You're just cherry picking.
It makes me wonder why Daisuki.net isn't a pay service. Also, shouldn't they add the money they get from licensing to that as well? If they are getting money from, for example, the U.S, Italy, France, Australia, & etc. that would that be like $100-200K USD p/country, no? Why isn't that considered as well?
>their entire revenue for 2013-2015 combined is still less than one season revenue of precure
>physical blu ray
>meanwhile gaming is saved by steam and online store
i think japs publisher is being hard headed idiot that refuse to change
N O P E .
Crunchyroll may do the same as Netflix, or they took into consideration producing original anime. It'll still be in the same state it currently is in. Netflix original animr, will likely consist of predominately shonen, magical girl, and mecha, coz if you look at the creators behind Bee and Puppycat, the Boondocks, Sym Boinic Titan, that is what influenced them and the CEOs and Exs are Netflix probably want to produce cookie-cutter anime of that sort "It's the next Sailor Moon, Naruto, Gunam, etc cetera"
The actual problem here is scheduling.
It comes down to how much money the studio gets for the creation of the adaptation and how much the studio actually spends. If you have to deal with awful working conditions, missed deadlines, higher expected cost, you'll quickly run out of money.
I'm going to say that the party at fault will vary depending on who you ask. The rights holder wants a studio that can calculate resources properly and the studio wants more money from the corresponding party and blames everyone but themselves.
Looking at KyoAni, I'm going to go with the first one and say that most studios do not have a very good plan for scheduling and resource calculation.
Niche Indie films don't try to be a market, the whole western indie scenario is far too deep into socialism to even be financially viable, all they do is to make some cheap shit and cry when they can't live out of it.
Daisuki does have premium content you have to pay for, most notably Gundam The Origin.
Also, I believe that they're still in the promotion phase, trying to make Daisuki known to the rest of the world that it actually exists at all.
because anime economics is a role play topic. No one here actually can't back up what they are saying except the toy sale anime which are owned by public companies and list revenue.
A lot of Japanese artists seem genuinely surprised when they learn that there's an international audience to their work.
A lot of artsy types don't like to have buisinessmen standing over them because it inhibits their artistic freedom. Unfortunately, if you don't know how to run a buisiness, you're not going to get very far on artistic freedom alone.
On the idea of consolidating: Bargaining power is a significant issue. One alternative would be for studios to organize and negotiate deals collectively, assuming that doesn't violate Japanese anti-trust laws. If it does (which would be retarded, but sadly expected), then they may indeed have no alternative but to aggregate under fewer, larger buisiness entities.
Good good, even the Japs know that SAO getting shittier after first arc of season 1, season 3 is still going to happen anyway I hope it will be the last season it's going to get.
Yes, most if not all of toei's IP doesn't rely on BD sales
>Mobile Suit Gundam,
and shows like anpanman, lupin and sazae-san always have a top tv ratings
Maybe they should try something like Fullmetal Alchemist, where they don't completely rely on the source material first and do their own thing after establishing the main plot. Then make a faithful adaptation afterwards if there is demand for it.
Actually Production IG & Kyoani have the right idea. They also run second businesses. Production IG also runs a restaurant & Kyoani runs an animation school. These are also other ways an animation company could make more money. Like if JC Staff could do a museum or something or even a small theater that would be a great way to acquire additional funds.
>Buy 1 blur-ray which is about 2-3 episodes for 60+ dollars
>Or buy one volume of a manga for 10 bucks that could equal to 50% to 100% of season 1 of the anime
Gee, not a hard choice is it.
Kek, I legit don't know how these weebs who stay home all day are even able to afford these retarded prices for anime anyways.
>producing shit show
>cry on twitter for no s2
Who even buys blu rays of anything? Not many people, that's for sure. Digital media is so much more convenient. I can't remember the last time I paid for a physical copy of a movie or tv show, and I don't know a single person that does either. I'm not sure what the solution is for anime studios to make money, but I don't think blu ray is the answer.
So will /a/ now finally give up on their shitty S2 dreams and read manga?
Just a normal one underneath its offices. You could go there & meet someone who works there which would be a big draw including having decent food. Having a second business would be a great way to generate more income rather than relying on just animation unless they are getting freelance from out of the country.
How is it there are only 400-somethings doujin circles for SnK at comicket when it's on of the top sellers manga?
Why, when Touken Ranbu gets more than twice the amounts?
Can't really imagine printing a fucking BD costs more than 400 yen including the packaging if produced en masse.
I mean just look at Teekyuu, it's 30 bucks for one "season" which means 24 minutes of content + 2 OVAs so it's 28, for 30 bucks.
That's 1 buck per minute of crappy animation compared to 0,5 bucks per minute of decent animation if there's 4 episodes for some 80 bucks.
tl;dr: Teekyuu will have 20 seasons and the age of short anime is upon us.
There are tons of high budget anime that utterly flop. It's much more sensible to throw a lot of relatively cheap series and hope some of them get popular. Then their S2s usually have much better budget.
Anime is shit, we all know that.
Manga is easily superior. Way better art, more variety, cheaper. The only problem is us filthy gaijins can't read most of them.
Unless more studios become like Kyoani, its going to stagnate until we get another Gundam or Haruhi tier success.
Doujin market is different from the professional ones. People like stuff like Kancolle, Touhou and Touken Ranbu when there's more freedom in what the fan is allowed. If it's a series with too much story the fanfics are more constrained.
Manga industry in Japan is too big to get killed anyways, if it ends up getting licensed then support it i guess.
You read the subs, you are no different.
Siily Jap need to move on with new business model.
Hell, Ken Akamatsu made an experiment by pirating his own stuff and already making more ads money than selling to publisher
Is this anime sales thread?
2015 Oricon Anime Series Overall Sales (2014/12/08~2015/12/13)[
*2 214,413 うたのプリンスさまっマジLOVE レボリューションズ
*3 153,065 映画 妖怪ウォッチ 誕生の秘密だニャン!
*4 152,610 機動戦士ガンダム THE ORIGIN
*5 151,825 黒子のバスケ
*6 145,007 ソードアート・オンライン II
*8 130,323 SHIROBAKO
*9 129,866 Free! -Eternal Summer-
10 124,969 STAND BY ME ドラえもん
11 114,378 艦隊これくしょん -艦これ-
12 108,196 ラブライブ! 2nd Season
13 103,479 血界戦線
14 *98,149 ハイキュー!!
15 *96,539 四月は君の嘘
16 *94,609 金田一少年の事件簿R（リターンズ）（２期）
17 *91,309 ジョジョの奇妙な冒険 スターダストクルセイダース
18 *89,666 アイドルマスター シンデレラガールズ
20 *86,828 THE LAST -NARUTO THE MOVIE-
>22 *76,419 ガンダム Gのレコンギスタ
23 *76,222 Fate/stay night [Unlimited Blade Works]
24 *73,463 冴えない彼女の育てかた
25 *72,339 ONE PIECE
26 *71,174 憑物語
27 *70,883 弱虫ペダル GRANDE ROAD
28 *66,752 それいけ! アンパンマン
30 *65,787 ドラゴンボールZ 復活の「F」
He's partially right. Nobody is going to bother looking up good anime when the whole fandom has image of rejects. Potential buyers are simply repulsed.
The reaction from producers is as you said, to throw lot of shit around in hope one of them will make it big with the audience you have.
In fact, buying licensed manga should make the Nips realize there's a market outside of their island, shouldn't it?
No. A meta thread would be about /a/ itself. We're discussing the industry, which is completely on-topic and frankly I think is a discussion that needs to be had more often.
I think it is obvious that the industry as a whole needs to move away from BDs as their primary income source, but the question is, to what?
The internet makes a lot of new buisiness opportunities, but it's a sort of creative destruction in that a lot of old buisinesses die in the process. Copyrights are obviously impossible to enforce, so that means you can really only get revenue from the merch.
I talk with a lot of webcomic artists, and merch is pretty much how all of them make their living. Problem is, of course, that animation is a lot more expensive and time-consuming than drawing stuff is.
For all the complaints about CGI, the future of the industry may rely on technologies that will make animation much less expensive. Pay attention to developments in flash/web animation to see where that's headed.
>No adult will keep watching same LN adaptation every season and don't have a time or isn't in a mood to go through all the shit to find a worthwhile series
I beg to fucking differ. Westerners who watch live action fucking love to eat up their movies and tv shows of literally the same thing constantly
Doujin market is where the fandom money is. SnK has lot of merchandise these amateur creators have to compete with. On the other hand Touhou or Kancolle has lot of leeway for personal fantasies.
Most adults generally don't watch cartoons, "good" or not. Maybe something with very high budget and entertainment value which you can watch with your family like Pixar or mainstream anime movies. You won't be able to attract them no matter what you do.
The thing about the market outside of japan is that the market is very very very small. I mean hell, comic books basically died out in the west. With them releasing more manga here, it would have to first get popular, which I do not see happening at all.
Are you retarded?
Manglobe specifically produced anime with this mindset.
They created anime to advertise the manga. That's what they were paid for.
They were actually surprised by its success in selling DVD's and BD's as it sold way more than any other of its series, which is why they did so much of it, because it produced them a bigger profit in addition to the payment bonus for advertising the manga.
In fact this is how many studios produce their money. Another example is Madhouse.
That's why Kaiji is full of movie advertisement
A lot of anime is marketed with the attention to specifically advertise something rather than to sell BD's, which are secondary.
>Top 10 best selling manga in Japan
>Literally the only on the list still not licenced yet
Fucking why? Amerifats would eat this shit up.
Manglobe didn't actually really have that many hits, tried to make lots of original anime that unfortunately flopped, didn't get enough work to produce adaptions, were honestly rather not that good, couldn't manage their finances, and in the end went under because they stayed in the red for too long.
This is why Kyoani is literally saving anime.
>They should just make anime with broader appeal :^)
This is how that would go:
>otaku ignore it because they don't want normalfag shit
>normalfags ignore it because it's anime
There's a reason normalfag manga are adapted into live action dramas instead of anime.
Indeed, but it doesn't mean current market has all the fans it can get. Most popular anime series prove there is a lot of money to be made even if the most adults don't want to watch it.
Remember that Greater Tokyo Area alone has 40mil. people. Selling 7K BDs of one volume is a joke.
Yeah. It's a shame that Apple compartmentalizes everything so we have to play games like buying Japanese gift cards. Just who benefits from that arrangement is completely lost on me.
You need to stop with this moralizing. Whining about piracy isn't going to change the fact that there's effectively no way to stop people from copying and sharing digital information. The industry needs to wake up and smell the matcha in the morning.
>market anime channel for tv/internet with best quality for western world
wow that was hard, all you need to do is to make west accept anime into daily lives, there is already all kinds of denegeracy, so more anime would do nothing
we are going to have wars in few years anyway
>Manga is pretty popular in Europe
Cartoon is pretty popular in Europe
it doesn't have to be japanese manga/anime, just look at frozen and avatar (atla and korra) it sold really well in europe
Germanfag here, and yeah, once manga volumes with 200 pages started to come out here, they were/are selling way better than most western comics published on our market. Don't know about other EU countries, though, like France fore example.
For those pirates who are deluded into thinking Japan is grateful for Gaijin who steal from them, read this.
Even if it's fucking doujinshi, it's intolerable.
In France, for 2013, manga was 39.3% of the new titles put out. With Naruto and OP selling more than 150000 units.
Source for those who can read frog: http://mondedulivre.hypotheses.org/1929
But merch wouldn't sell as well as in Japan, and it's limited to about 1500 titles, when who knows more titles exist.
For every anime short like Teekyuu that actually manages to sell a BD (which contains the entire season + perhaps an unaired episode/OVA to entice people into buying that stuff in the first place), there are tons of short anime like Somera-chan and Hakone-chan that sell like crap.
However, those short anime are literally filler, meant to be put between two blocks, when there's absolutely no commercial, late-night show, movie, series, or anime airing.
Out of those 40 million people, how many watches anime? How many of those people can actually afford to buy BD's of their favorite anime? You have to be a true fan to waste so much money on your chinese cartoons.
>no matter how hard you try make anime it doesn't sell because otakushit
>original anime is doomed from the beginning if it's not pandering hard
I feel sorry for all animators. I bet animator expo BD don't sell too
>Japan is grateful for Gaijin who steal from them
It's pretty disgusting. I hear the same arguments (excuses, really) over and over.
>muh translations and I can't read moon
>muh pirating has made the series popular without any marketing
>muh advertising and think of it as viral marketing bullshit
Europe is the second largest manga market, next to Japan.
>reads the forum sections
>all those people caring about copyright of comics which are themselves technically copyright infringement
ANN finds another way to make me laugh.
No, they really filed for bankruptcy. Didn't help that in more than a decade of operation their only "hits" was Karneval and to a lesser extent TWGOK (which had only modest sales at best). Original anime can only help you if you are part of the production committee and more importantly, if they sell, something with almost of their shows failed to do.
>Even streaming, which was supposed to be a ray of hope to the industry, isn’t strong enough to be a revenue generator…
I'm not sure of the business of streaming in Japan (which I'm guessing is dominated by NND), but I'm curious as to why streaming hasn't had the same effect over there as it has had in the States.
The first episode of GochiUsa has like 6 million views on nicovideo, and from all I hear I don't think the number of otaku / anime viewers in Japan is decreasing. It's just that people don't want to buy blurays, there's no point in doing it.
Thing is from what I've seen a lot of people pirate because the "official" releases are either too expensive, or worse, unavailable outside of Japan. Sometimes these companies deliberately try to block non-Japanese sales (many eroge games for example deliberately say "for sale in Japan only", and some eroge company websites even block non-Japanese IP addresses). So if anything, they need to take at least part of the blame.
>A meta thread would be about /a/ itself
No, industry discussion is a meta thread. It's a meta thread about anime, turbo nigger. Meta threads in all form are shit and should next to never occur
To my knowledge, it only happened twice, with the 50 shades and the Mortal Instruments serie.
Also a third time if you consider that serie of books with the male love interest supposedly being one of 1D's lookalike.
You can't really call that a successful business model.
Yes. Which also explains why they're attempting to cater to other markets.
I didn't say that that justifies piracy. I was just laughing at how seriously ANN and its community takes this sort of thing. It's one of the few places online I can think of whose community (not just webmasters) frown on piracy.
Don't you have somewhere else to be? Like >>>/pol/ perhaps?
This is why, as much as /a/ loves to hate on "normies", I'm always trying to drum up interest in anime. I recommend it to friends, and I try to get people to watch Toonami. If we expect the industry to survive, we can't just sit around with some "seekrit club" attitude, because that's not how capitalism works.
>Thing is from what I've seen a lot of people pirate because the "official" releases are either too expensive, or worse, unavailable outside of Japan.
You just repeated one of my greentexts.
If it's not available to you, pirating isn't a justification to getting it. Fucking import it, ya flipfag leech.
>there are people out there who actually wish they were Japanese
Still baffles me to this day.
So why don't popular mangakas just start a website like Batoto together? Seems like it'd be more profitable for them than working for publishers.
Digital distribution in general might be the future of the medium, but for some reason japan refuses to go that step.
But if you're a piece of shit gaijin who wants to get stuff for free over the Internet, it's suddenly okay?
The point here is that Japan never supported piracy from gaijin, they just don't know how to stop it.
Popular mangakas have little to win, since they mostly earn money by tankoubon sales and getting their stuff published on the big magazines is good for publicity. It's the fringe artist that can't sustain popularity for long in the major magazines that should take up and create these platforms.
For how ahead of the curve they were with technology in the 80's and 90's they really stagnated hard. Just got complacent I guess, and now the rest of the world is leaving them in the dust.
Learn Japanese or wait for a localization instead of leeching off people.
Then it's not available to you. That's no reason to pirate it if you have any intention of supporting the industry.
That's the thing, *no one* can stop digital piracy. The laws of information science pretty much make that impossible. The only thing people can do is either work around it, or find a way to profit from the piracy itself. Copyrights are pretty much a dead letter as far as applying to the consumer market.
>ANN finds another way to make me laugh.
>OKAYADO, the creator of Monster Musume, revealed that he attended the winter Comiket held at the end of last month and purchased dōjinshi of his own manga.
Fuck off, flip.
The American comic industry is committing suicide and it's fucking hilarious.
>People shriek about muh diversity and social justice
>Companies like Marvel and DC cater to those shrieks, thinking they have to keep up with seemingly changing demographics
>The complainers don't even buy comics to begin with
>Their actual customer base is now totally alienated and moves on to another hobby
not just the internet. I live in one of the most bogan white trash city suburbs in Australia and I still run into obvious weebs on the daily, not even counting those hiding their power levels.
fact is, if they gave a shit about the international market they could be making so much more money than they are - niche shows or not
Japanese are generally bad at business. Rumiko Takahashi is one of the richest women in Japan and that because she who knew how to do business.
That being said, they probably don't have too much time to dig around instead of working and pants-on-head-retarded corporate structure in Japan is not helping
Can you seriously just fuck off already? Not just are you mobile posting, you are also spouting uninformed bullshit. Piracy is fucking incredibly easy to stop and we are on our way to that occurring with all the privacy laws. Just kill yourself already
I was referring to the forum, not the article.
In a lot of media that's the case. Even with music, only a small part of royalties actually go to the artists. It's a harsh reality which I personally believe should be changed, but it's still the reality.
All the talk about anime only appealing to a niche market is misleading. Sure that's true to an extent since it's all animation as opposed to live action, but if you look at all the shows that premiered in the last year or two the genres are just about as varied as regular TV. The problem is that it's those lowly pandering shows that sell more than the rest, which is why we got like three fucking battle harems in just the last season.
Stuff like kid's anime, shoujo anime have always been produced but it's at least partially due to the rise in popularity of anime fueled by shows with these elements that we get what we have today. The only difference between then and now, aside from the technology, is that you had fanservice in all sorts of different forms be it mecha porn in OVA series like Gunbuster, Project A-ko, etc. or popular culture references (try and count the number in Daicon IV). However that shit requires talent and money, both of which Japan seems to be seriously lacking nowadays. I know I've seen on at least more than one occasion somebody in the industry bemoaning the lack of upcoming talent which is probably why we have so much anime animated by shitty Koreans and/or done in godawful CGI.
Drawing naked girls seems to be a hell of a lot easier than intricate ship/mecha designs which is probably why the latter is almost exclusively CGI now, even though it rarely looks good - just passable.
If anything I'd say the problem isn't the market itself, but the disillusionment of the industry in response. Yes money talks but you listen to it so much you lose sight of what attracted you to the industry in the first place and play it safe out of fear of failure. Maybe if they took more risks - and I mean them not via outsourcing - and put their hearts into it maybe anime could be saved.
The sad thing is while he's a great writer, he's not Harry Potter/Twilight levels popular, yet his trial which Ken now emulates clearly succeeded. If a guy who most dudebros don't even know exists can succeed with the new model, why would famous international hits not benefit from it?
It's pretty much a fact that piracy was the reason manga and anime even took off around the world. Japan just doesn't realize it's the equivalent of a library and free advertising and wants to change the library into a bookstore.
Hell OPM is technically FREE in Japan. Why are they even trying to cry about it?
BD is another story since it's just a massive jewfest no different than Horse Armor DLC.
The only way to stop piracy would be the implementation of a police state on people's computers. I'm sure plenty of people in Hollywood would love to see that happen, but if history has taught us anything, it's that nothing is more dangerous to liberty in the long run then handing over control of the distribution of ideas to the government (or indeed, any singular powerful entity).
>The problem is that it's those lowly pandering shows that sell more than the rest, which is why we got like three fucking battle harems in just the last season.
But battle harems flop, senpai
There's actually a big diversity of shows every season.
The kindle store has like 70 000 different volumes of raw manga just ready to be download at a click of button. What they should do is to hire translators or have a system of voluntary translators that gets a small share of the sales in the new language. That way neither amazon nor the author needs to pay anything at all while you have people translating their work for them.
>there's effectively no way to stop people from copying and sharing digital information. The industry needs to wake up and smell the matcha in the morning.
And do what? If people don't want to pay for a product there is no product, the end.
>The only way to stop piracy would be the implementation of a police state on people's computers
Do you mean Windows? It seems we are already pretty fucking close to the government already having control over most computers. With the way burgerland is going with how stupid your average burger is, it won't be long for actual proper anti-privacy laws get put in place, because your average burger doesn't know any better. History means nothing in the face of stupid, you stupid /b/tard tripnigger
Niche anime shows that have incredibly low pre-orders and are totally flops (like Yoru no Yatterman) are bundled together into BD box collections, and the publishers hope that the people will buy them to make room for the warehouses.
Too many unsold BD volumes staying around too long are such a mark of shame (and still cost money to have them waste place in the warehouses), the companies prefer to throw them away in landfills than trying to sell them for even cheaper.
Even with piracy people are willing to pay, piracy just make more about people wanting to support the industry rather than having to buy a product they want. If any entertainment industry ever fully embraced piracy as means of distribution they'd have to change the entire way in which their business is organized.
You can't lose money from having things you were never going to sell pirated, especially since 99% of all the manga that ever got scanlated will never get localized and never had a chance at getting localized in the first place.
>Yoru no Yatterman
>still no BD rips
Fuck, it was one of my favorite shows this year too. I want to see that fixed last episode already.
Except their attempts are shallow as fuck. I'd be happy to see representation of it was good, and there are plenty of awesome minority writers out there, but the ones the pick aren't necessarily good and are forced to write capeshit. That's why stuff like saga and sex criminals is selling. It's genre diversity we need, not just ethnic diversity.
Money lost to piracy are not easily counted, on the other hand cost of anti-piracy measures can be clearly seen and it's not low. No investor will give unlimited budget to do that. And taking down a whole site costs a lot. Especially when the owner can just get new domain for few dollars.
Anime companies already went trough that and gave up.
>Hyped up new social justice Thor
>Tumblr and reddit go out and buy it because girl power!™
>Eventually the novelty wears off
I've read it. It's ridiculously cringeworthy.
>the manga that didn't pay a single yen
How terrible that the manga doesn't pay a single yen. It's not like it's doing enough already by providing the source material or anything.
Dude, take a look around at all the copyright infringement that goes on in this very site. Also, there is this thing called the dark web, and it doesn't really give a rodent's rear end about DMCA notices and fancy lawyers in suits.
If people are unwilling to pay money for content, then it will die and there's nothing that can be done to stop that. OTOH, if the issue is merely the *way* in which shit gets paid for, then perhaps a Kickstarter-like model might be the solution. It's tough to tell right now one way or the other.
>You can't lose money from having things you were never going to sell pirated
They're not supposed to be available to you in the first place.
Piracy is not Sharing. It can hardly be called "sharing" when the person giving isn't losing anything. Sharing implies division of a resource, product, etc. The end result of sharing is that you end up with less of the original. That is not the case with piracy.
Copyright holders are not against true sharing. Go ahead and give your CD to a friend to borrow. It only becomes wrong if you were create another copy of that CD before giving it away. In that case, you just artificially increased the supply of the product.
More supply = less value
You have to be lying if you say decreasing the value of a product created for the purpose of profit is not a bad thing. That is exactly what piracy does.
>book gets adapted into a movie
>movie becomes popular
>copies of the book start topping charts and flying off the shelves
>people still buy the DVD/bluray upon release
Maybe they should start making more anime movies instead of TV shows.
>tfw couldnt afford a truckload of Watamote BDs so we could get a SE 2
The entire reason the BDs dont sell is because they're too expensive.
Even in Japan they still cost a fucking retarded amount of money.
And overseas everyone just torrents because the BDs dont come out for MONTHS after the anime airs and we've all seen it and it's STILL TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE.
>$80 for a disc
Give me a fucking break.
Most people who pirate wither do so because the product is not readily available to them or because they never intended to purchase the product legally in the first place. The only people you are losing revenue from is the first group, and that's the fault of the company for not making their product readily available to the consumer, not the consumers for being unwilling to buy. Remember that as a consumer, no one is under any obligation to buy anything.
Well no fucking wonder! Who the fuck even has a Blu-ray player or even a DVD player for that matter anymore. The way to make money with anime is trough streaming and DDL. But it needs to be subscription based, nobody is going to pay 5$ per episode or 30$ per movie. I think the anime industry is somewhat progressive in that perspective, but only streaming isn't enough. We want that stuff downloadable and in the best quality possible (which still isn't the case with streaming services).
Remember though that if prices go down demand also goes up so what's actually the case is that there's somehow a need to balance supply and demand.
Then again, it could also be argued that supply and demand (and copyright itself) are rather outdated concepts in the digital age.
They do air ads in commercial breaks with late night shows.
You are implying most people even know they are fucking the industry by doing what they do. For example, ask any kid if they know using AdBlock fucks the revenue of websites or youtube users and they will be surprised.
Furthermore, most people don't even know what they want, kickstart models fail because most people who consume media don't know what they will like until they are eating it.
I don't think its a piracy problem, its a generational problem, millennials think everything fall from the tree and that content creators should do it out of love.
The anime industry was selling overpriced BD's/DVD's long before piracy was a huge thing. They do that because anime is a niche product, not because people are pirating anime.
What mainsteam? Mangafox certainly doesn't give a fuck as much as it should have. Batoto is bunch of retards from day-one.
Anyway all of these sites are still up. If I remember correctly only two big online readers ever went down due to DMCA. You still have dozens hosted in china and that's still not counting Japanese P2P networks.
Yes, Microsoft wanted to do it with Xbox One, but public reaction was extremely bad. Sony was praised for just keeping the status quo. Although some background information said Sony wanted to do it too, but quickly backed away after MS got hated.
What are you on about? If you make an advertisement campaign for any product you expect to have a share of the newfound profit the original will get. Its fucking dumb that the anime company doesn't get a share of the bump in sales it gives to the manga.
We're seeing more movie releases of anime shows in the last year or two though. I think the industry noticed nerds were willing to go watch a movie several times as long as you added some trinket or special shit.
The difference is that in Japan's case, the local anti-piracy laws are strict enough that piracy is not prevalent there. Even if the supply increases and the overall value changes, that won't affect their main market because it's cut off from piracy in the west.
Moreover, the market value of most of these products is horrible from a business perspective. Instead of bitching about piracy and trying to sell blatantly overpriced products it'd be smarter to abuse the prevalence of piracy to enter the digital distribution market and make up for the loss in value with increased sales. The only reason copyright holders bitch about losing money is because they are too fucking lazy to try and profit from the situation.
>the ending to negima left me not wanting to do with anything else from him.
Can you really blame him? Half of Negima, chances are, wasn't even written by him. After he escaped the company with his IP, he probably just straight up had enough of the series and just let it go. But he liked it's universe and had things he still wanted to do with it, so he did UQ
Blame the jews trying to steal his Ip, not him
Microsoft tried that and see how that turned out. Nintendo is the only company that still uses region locking (not surprising given that they invented it) and while correlation does not necessarily mean causation, the Wii U's sales are pretty crap compared to the PS4 which had rather liberal (compared to the Xbox One's original plan) sharing policies from the star.
So how do you want to get your stuff them if it's not legally available?
This was a different kind of answers.
>Didn't console companies try to limit borrowing and reselling games already?
They were definitely forced into allowing true sharing, but they definitely don't want to be forced into making manga and anime for absolutely free by the way pirates work.
Or have pirates pirate their work and profit out of it, as in the case with the torrent sharing scene.
>charge 6 billion dollars for 2 episodes per disc
>be surprised when the discs don't sell as well as LN and manga, both of which are dirt cheap in Japan
Someone explain to me the logic behind this pricing strategy. And also why anime in the West costs a fraction of this.
I was mainly talking about Batoto, the only site I've found that doesn't delete stuff is Kissmanga, most of their stuff have horrible compression even on the most popular titles though.
Movies still cost a lot to make anon. There is nothing to ensure they will sell well and for most studios, something like a movie flopping could easily put them under. There is a lot of risks to make movies
Why is everyone acting like this is surprising?
It's not even the real reason. You see a lot of anime getting subpar sales getting S2/3, while the opposite exist, anime selling 20k yet have no sequel (looking at you Studio8, motherfuckers)
I always felt that whatever happened it was excuse for him to end Negima cause he didn't felt like writing more. He did UQ but it couldn't stand on its own so in the end he had to add all the connections to Negima.
>The only reason copyright holders bitch about losing money is because they are too fucking lazy to try and profit from the situation.
Not lazy, but mostly ignorant. Especially Japs. Point in case - iPhones. No mobile company believed it would sell before it gave them assfucking they will remember for long time.
>So how do you want to get your stuff them if it's not legally available?
>stuff that aren't legally available should be taken illegally
That's how criminals think. Sasuga retarded backwater fob flipfag.
Well it cant hurt either.
And the release dates kill sales too.
By the time it's out on BD, everyone, worldwide, had torrented the show and watched it twice.
Compare that to movie sales in America.
BDs come out fairly quickly after a movie isnt in theaters anymore, and they dont cost your first born to own.
>GoT box on amazon jp costs ~12k (￥ 9,800 right now)
>Overlord ONE BD costs ￥ 5,594
>F/Z, UBW box ￥ 37,000
When the only option is for people to steal or to not consume the product, that's the companies fault for not making their product available to a demographic that obviously wants it, this is literally basic economics, sorry if you're too retarded to understand that.
Judging by how assblasted you are about America, I take it that your visa application was denied.
Supply and demand are concepts intrinsic to market capitalism. That information has an infinite supply just throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing, but since capitalism isn't going anywhere any time soon, we have to live with that.
I'm sure. Anything they can do to make a buck at other people's expense.
If were talking about second seasons, then a Kickstarter model seems perfectly applicable, since people already know what the show is about.
What are you, that 40-something geezer from the confession thread?
Seriously though, artists often *do* do it out of love, ars gratis ars as MGM likes to say, but they still need to pay their bills at the end of the day. That disconnect between the production and the commoditization is much of why we're having a problem in the first place.
Because the company's products were too expensive to begin with? Piracy's problematic, but so is their business model. Perhaps if their products were more accessible then less people would resort to pirating. Personally there are a lot of things I would love to buy legally, it's that in many cases they don't even want to sell legally to foreigners or they make it ridiculously difficult (Japanese iTunes is a good example of this).
It's past midnight where I live so I guess my thinking is starting to become problematic.
>This was a different kind of answers.
Your post in >>135623698 shows that while letting the price go down to make demand go up isn't sustainable in the least.
Get your shit together.
It's also quite shit at being tidy, some releases are all ove the place, and it's not really nice to use.
But eh, that's to expect from a viwing site.
It's only advantage is the whole chapter being veiwed at once, reducing the time inbetween pages
I know that, but it will be a growing trend to make more movie releases of strong brands of anime. Out of the top 20 grossing films in Japan 2015, 7 of them were anime, with an additional like 3 being live action adaptation of manga, and still like 5 more of them being western animated movies. Animation sells in Japanese cinemas.
>Except piracy of something not legally available is objectively a good thing for the creators you retard.
Stop this meme. It's worse than Keit-Ai. Why would creators think they'd profit off leeches who wouldn't buy their shit even when it became available in their shores anyway?
They don't have the time for that. They do however have the time to perhaps read the manga or read a magazine on the way to work or back to home, if they're not being forced to participate in those social hangouts with their co-workers (that's really a thing in many companies). Then, they're just too tired and want to go to sleep.
Still, there are a lot of sararymen who do watch anime. They rent them, or actually do use legal streaming services.
I read somewhere that anime is just like long-ass advertisement.
Basically, the studio need to pay the cheapest slot (which is usually midnight) in certain TV channel just to airs their series.
Also, about 50% of a series budget is allocated for this slot.
If I were a creator I'd be happy that so many people had viewed and enjoyed my work even if they did pirate, if they can't get it legally then them pirating it and viewing it increases the chances of them becoming a fan and buying my future works.
Making anime is a lot more expensive than making manga, and BD's naturally sell less than print. They don't sell it for that much because they want to, it's the best price they can put on it in order to still maintain a profit, and even then it doesn't work most of the time. Anime BD's should honestly cost a lot more for how much they sell in order to make any kind of profit, but the demand just isn't there.
>profit off leeches who wouldn't buy their shit even when it became available in their shores anyway?
How do you prove whether they'd buy or not?
Most people are unable to think of piracy as anything beyond actual stealing, which is complete bullshit. Apologies and feeling bad about this means nothing.
Such an analysis ignores the fact that one /causes/ the other. Poverty doesn't justify robbery and murder, but it sure as hell goes a long way towards explaining why it happens.
Precisely. My point was they both need fixing.
I don't think so, but I read elsewhere that usually anything which sells more than 5000 units is usually profitable, while those which sell less than that could still be profitable if you take into account merchandise sales and source material boosts (if applicable0
>Why would creators think they'd profit off leeches who wouldn't buy their shit even when it became available in their shores anyway?
Because it's been proven in the past that even if most won't buy shit, the amount of people who will is still decent enough that the net profit will eclipse the extremely meager costs.
>the amount of people who will is still decent enough that the net profit will eclipse the extremely meager costs.
I sure hope you're not using the "piracy is free advertising" meme.
Both Neil Gaiman and Ken Akamatsu have put their products up on piracy websites and seen corresponding increases in revenue from it, because it increases exposure. Lots of indie music bands do the same thing as well with great results. Just because Japs don't like piracy doesn't mean it's suddenly ineffective as an advertising medium, you've provided literally zero evidence to contradict that.
>Confirmed for not creator.
There are several doujin VN creators, LN writers and mangakas who have gone out of their way to state that they don't mind piracy in the west because they're happy someone actually genuinely gives a shit about their works.
Heck, there are some translation projects that were started with the explicit agreement of the creators.
He's a content creator, author and illustrator of Megatokyo. If you want the opinion of an actual artist who's currently available for discussion and actually speaks English, he's perfect.
I'm not, though. Doesn't change the fact that piracy hurts more than it helps.
Internet piracy is not as bad as stealing something physical, such as a CD or DVD, as no one lost money from the physical creation of the item, but, it is still theft, and still bad.
While it may not be physical, the parallels are unquestionable. In both situations you are getting something for free that has cost others lots of time, money and effort to build. Films especially cost huge amounts to make, often hundreds of millions of dollars, in exactly the same way to how it costs someone to create a handbag or a car.
>Their business model works fine.
When you've got Manglobe going under and Gonzo and AIC nearly doing so as well then "works fine" is inaccurate on so many levels.
If you're talking about anime budget, don't forget the leaked budget of BB.
Localization in general is pretty cheap and easy as long as you have someone who is willing to distribute the product or use digital distribution. It could be made even cheaper if the copyright holders just negotiated with scanlators to use their translations. No matter how you looks at it, it's cheap profit.
>Now, you may not be fluent in Japanese. That's Okay. Most of my work has already been pirated, translated, and uploaded online. You may have seen some of it. That's cool, I hope you liked what you saw.
Source: ShindoL's patreon.
Then how the fuck did stuff like D.Gray-Man and Berserk get a new anime adaptation? Especially the former where it's been 7 years since the original anime ended. What's the incentive?
No. It takes too much space away and is a big organizational problem to have a high-quality version with bonus goodies (BD+merch), a lower-quality version with bonus goodies (DVD+merch), a high-quality version without bonus goodies (BD only), and a low-quality version without bonus goodies (DVD only). It does sometimes happen, but most companies would rather not deal with such a hassle.
Still, volume versions that are BD and/or DVD only do get sold much later after the versions with the merchandise, if there are still rest stocks available (but not in too huge numbers), the show was somewhat popular enough, and they are generally bundled together in box collections.
Piracy is extremely prevalent elsewhere but that didn't stop films like Star Wars or Jurrasic World to earn more than 1 billion dollars. It's not so much piracy as to flaws in their business models as well. If the industry suffers due to piracy, they need to adapt. There's a saying in my college: "develop or decay", and sadly the anime industry is in the decay side of things.
Of course. The whining about prices is just to justify their choice to not support the industry. But even if the prices were lower, /a/ will always choose to support Funimation, SP, Jew Press etc regardless of the alternative.
Hell just look at kikestarters. One moment they whine about BD prices, the next they throw hundreds of dollars at projects to localize already translated VNs.
Because the anime ended almost 3 years ago and the core fanbase is currently hyped on something else (but still buy SnK related products). The number of doujins should rise with S2.
>Their business model works fine. It's the piracy that ruins it.
No it fucking doesn't. Piracy hardly exists in Japan, which is the only market that genuinely matters to Japan. Just because you remove piracy doesn't mean that the west would suddenly start buying BDs. The presence of piracy of anime is theoretically harmful, but negligible in practice.
>that didn't stop films like Star Wars or Jurrasic (sic) World to earn more than 1 billion dollars
It would've earned more without it. It certainly didn't gain more from the rampant piracy.
The ones who profited from the piracy are the pirates.
>abloobloo I'm so shit at my job I chose to adapt series that obviously wouldn't sell.
and they don't deserve it. The project is usually funded by the publisher/IP holder to boost the sales/awareness of the source material. Anime studios are just jews, if they want some kickback they should have made the adaptation better.
>Just because you remove piracy doesn't mean that the west would suddenly start buying BDs
There'd be no leeching though. A la the good ol' days before fansubbing and rampant importation.