ITT: MC's that actually worked hard to get strong and wasn't

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>>135582165

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Hard Work and Effort, the character. So much so that when he gets a special power it causes a breakdown. And the second power he gets is basically anti-special snowflake.

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obligatory

>>135582289
He had the power of autism though.

>>135582165
Naruto.

>>135582289
Please, he was a total special snowflake genius, I'm not gonna take away some of his hard work but for the most part the fact that he became so strong and skillful in such a short time was complete bullshit, the others characters kept mentioning how he wasn't "normal", how he was different and special, and all that sort of bullshit. Honestly, this manga doesn't deserve half the praise it gets.

>>135582741
Guts is pretty fucking talented though.

>>135582671
irony is his lack of being special made him the special one.

>>135583082
Guts had a hard life

>>135583155
>Souma
>Not a special snowflake

delusional faggot pls

>>135583187
>implying his willpower isn't special snowflake tier

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>>135583155
>wasn't some special snowflake or had a family lineage
>Soma

>>135582885
Makes no sense how you can say this when the Op used Kenichi. Kenichi improved at a ridiculous rate, literally faster than Ippo who we known to have tons of natural talent.

In fact, the masters clearly said he had talent. It was just his talent was at working hard and not giving up, which is a type of mental fortitude talent contrary to /a/'s beliefs. There's no fucking magic spirit, your brain is either capable of handling the stress load or it isn't and despite Kenichi never having any sort of background of working hard in his life unlike Ippo who worked as a fisherman his whole life, Kenichi still possesses far more mental fortitude having been raised as a normal child with nothing lacking.

That's no different than autism. Just like >>135582289 and LMS's Weed. Part of the struggle for average people is the struggle to maintain discipline. People who take it in as if it's natural will obviously have an advantage when dedicating themselves.

>>135582810
please be trolling.

That's naruto original premise, it all went to shit in the later part when you found out that he was from one of the strongest lineages (reason why is chakra was so huge). and the other parent was the fucking hokage.
If it wasnt for the fox and his absurd chakra, he would have RIPt right at the beginning of the series.

>>135583212
training since early age =/= special snow flake

those will be erinas tonge or nosefag

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He was garbage tier Saiyan when born.

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Nigga been making gains since he was 7

>>135583297
Was prophetized to defeat Freezer

>>135583326
nope, haki of conqueror, he is special snow flake

>>135583292
His father was a top student at the same school. He's definitely a special snowflake.

>>135583345
Nothing to do with him training really hard to become strong though. He does not have any latent powers.

>>135583292
He is the son of one of the greatest chefs in the world, and has been working at his restaurant since he was a kid. Or did you just forget that? Hell there are plenty of times when it feels like soma wins just cause he's MC

A better example would have been Megumi

>>135583297
By that logic Arale was made of nuts and bolts you could buy at Home Hardware, yet she's still stronger than everyone in Dragon Ball put together.

>>135583369
>haki of conqueror
It seems like that's pretty common at this point in the story.

>>135583369
> Haki of the conqueror he doesn't get until he's 17
> Lot of good conqueror did Ace

Luffy worked his ass off for his power m8

>>135583398
>>135583385
in my book training since kid pass by. having a genetical feature of something that has not explanation pass by as snowflake

>>135583451
hey if you want to get technical, one of the few reason he endure that long is cause rubber minimize impacts, were he being a normal human like Sanji he would get trashed

>>135583448
That's because everyone showing up with it is a big shot. Do you claim people who are 8 feet tall are common because you are watching the ape hoop?

>>135583451
>Literally a D.

No one is denying Luffy worked hard, but he was special from the start.

>>135583369
He had to work very very hard to truly unlock it though. I know he always had it in him but that doesn't mean he had it easy.

>>135583510
>in my book training since kid pass by. having a genetical feature of something that has not explanation pass by as snowflake

Using your logic any rich kid who is pampered and given elite education isn't special, he just worked hard with the massive advantage given since birth and used it to get ahead even more of his generation.

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we all know he's the real MC anyway

>>135583326
>literally the son of the dragon

Read a book nigger.

>>135583550
>or had family lineage bs

What part of this do you not understand? Luffy has lucked out so many times even blind niggers can see it.

>>135583550
>MC's that actually worked hard to get strong AND wasn't some special snowflake or had family lineage bs

it has to apply to eveything

>>135583256
Well you're sorta assuming I know anything about fucking Kenichi bu I get your point, and it does make sense, but it's still not enough to not consider >>135582289 as special snowflake, you mentioned Ippo and how Kenichi and Yuu are flying past him and learning everything like it ain't no thang but the thing is Ippo himself is a fucking hard worker like no other, isn't that alone somewhat of a proof of how much of special snowflakes Kenichi and Yuu are? Hard work can only take them so far and so fast, it is all mostly talent.

>>135583593
He was practically raised and trained by the son of a Gorosei.

>>135583326
He's the most wanted man's son, also Garp's grandson
Also a D.
Also Conqueror's Haki
He's quite the special snowflake

>>135583482
A pretty funny example, considering the first two times someone tried to just grant him power he wound up having to train to use it properly anyways, and then he went and failed his shonen combat powerup trial

>>135583606
Which does nothing for him in terms of power. At best, it made him slightly more notorious after the timeskip

>>135583664
That was never confirmed
Just some chink spoilers with no source

>>135583432
What?
Goku was dumped on Earth because he was considered shitty, he only became strong because he trained nonstop. Even when Raditz appeared he was weak.

>>135583550
>truly unlock it though
conquerors haki is something you are born with

>>135583391
Even Vegeta that was a prodigious, and had both talent and hard work couldn't hope to compete with Goku that was already SSJ3 by the time that Vegeta couldn't even achieve SSJ2 without a cheat.

Goku is super special snowflake even if no one says it every week, his gains from his regular training is absurd compared to other regular saiyan.

>>135583245
I think it easily transcends that.

>>135583716
90% true, the last 10% is the saiyan hack that if they recover after close to dead thats a free boost

>>135583728
>no one says it every week, his gains from his regular training is absurd c

Nothing compared to Frieza

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The true MC.

>>135583757
Yeah, but it does not count if you look at it relative to other Saiyans.

>>135582165
Rakudai. He has shit for magic but trained 20 hours a day.

>>135582165
>hard work in a fiction
>like it matters

It's just bs from author the same as any. Protagonists are always snowflake.

>>135583662
>you mentioned Ippo and how Kenichi and Yuu are flying past him and learning everything like it ain't no thang but the thing is Ippo himself is a fucking hard worker like no other, isn't that alone somewhat of a proof of how much of special snowflakes Kenichi and Yuu are?


So if I take 50 years to learn how to play a violin, that makes an average person who learned in years "talented" and a special snowflake?

Only reason Ippo improves so slowly is to keep the manga going, there's no in-universe reason for it.

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>>135582671
reposting this to emphasize.

>>135583182
Meta as fuck.

>>135582165
Great now post a series that isnt utter shit

>>135583662
Wait wait I did not say Yuu surpassed Ippo. I only said Kenichi. Yuu is the most average out of everyone listed so far, and that much should be obvious to anyone who has read/watched everything listed so far.

The reason Yuu can progress faster than Ippo is unlike Kenichi, who is constantly just more special and fighting monsters. Yuu is the opposite. He's fighting fags on the streets, most of whom don't train, and the ones that do aren't anything special when it comes to the pro level either.

He also gets literally whooped quite a few times, whereas Ippo literally lost only twice despite face tanking people for over 1000 chapters.Yuu would have died if he even tried that for 100.

The only difference is that Yuu isn't dumb like most of his opponents, because again, most of the opponents in Holyland are retards and drop outs. Look what happens when he fights Charisma. He gets owned because his biggest advantage, wits, is outclassed. Charisma wasn't actually completely /fit/ as he was still in a slump and keeping his head down from the Yakuza, while Yuu was going balls out getting battle experience over and over keeping in constant peak condition, yet the latter still lost.

It's a part of why in the epilogue Charisma and the other guy fight at the pro level for the world title, while Yuu remains on the streets. He can't graduate, because that's his limit and he accepts that completely, and in exchange we get to see how he adopts Charisma's street fighting teachings and masters them.

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>>135582165
Ah gou lives a thug life

>>135583883
>Only reason Ippo improves so slowly is to keep the manga going

Taking fifty punches to the head in each match probably affects his improvement as well.

>>135583155
>manga tries to make Souma the one guy with no talent who climbed the steps through sheer willpower and practice
>he's one of the most gifted cooks in the whole manga

Just fuck my writing up.

>>135583711
I was kidding, cause you know Zoro isn't the MC.

>>135583923
>son of a goddess
>not special

>>135583923
>Half god
>Son of the most powerful human
>Easily learned the Dark One's shit
Definitely not a special snowflake.

>>135583883
Nah not true, an average speed for learning any activity always exists, based around that average those who master such activity or learn it at a much faster rate are considered talented. Whether Ippo's learning progress is slow or not I don't know simply because I'm not that much into boxing to have a point of comparison.

>>135583923
>Grandson of a fucking elder god
>Gets generic "My power is to weaken you!" ability that has no counters
>Not a special snowflake

>>135582165
Adlet from rokka no yuusha. Spent 8 years training under some old fart that beat him every day and teched him how to hunt demons

>>135583716
Doesn't change a thing, Arale is made from parts you can find at a junk yard. Her design is so simple it can be mass produced. Obotchaman is proof of this.

And once again, they still shit on everything in Dragon Ball no problem.

>>135583398
>He is the son of one of the greatest chefs in the world, and has been working at his restaurant since he was a kid.

Yeah that's the reason for his skills.

But that's not what "talent" is. Sure if someone starts something on an early age he gets an advantage compared to other people, but talent is a different thing.

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Although the same could be said for almost everybody in the story

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>>135583975
>>135583973
>Got the shit kicked out of him and learned hard work and worked his ass off to get to the top
>Special snowflake
Is this fag plain enough for you faggots

>>135582885
>Honestly, this manga doesn't deserve half the praise it gets.
Stay mad faggot. Holy Land deserve all the heavenly praises it gets.

Yuu wasn't a special snowflake genius either, he was, until the start of the story a hikikomori and sometime later became a dropout, if I remember. If you're referring to his fighting style, he wasn't a genius in that regard either.

And the reason others held him in high regard was because he learnt his own fighting style empirically, he self-taught himself from reading and all, he honed his skills alone, unlike some of the other characters who had otherwise went to the gym or learnt from someone else, to them it was an exceptional feat and likely irked them to no end. Notably that how Shougo felt and why Shougo sought Yuu as his rival and wanted to defeat him. It was also commented on how Yuu fighting style is flawed and because they helped him, Yuu gradually became a better fighter. Another notably example is Yuu fight with the Kenpo drug dealer, Yuu used everything he was taught by his comrades to defeat him.

>>135583662
>Hard work can only take them so far and so fast, it is all mostly talent.
Same applies for pure talent. Is like something said on certain manga. Not everyone who works hard gets rewarded but everyone who succeed has worked hard.

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I mean he kinda IS a special snowflake, but it's not like it helped him whatsoever.

>>135584018
He's Ri Boku's nephew

>>135583954
He's gifted because of nurture, not nature. But it's still an unfair advantage that didn't come from sheer hardwork. You can't just hard work your way as a sperm into being born as a son of a top tier chef. Not only would that imply you have sentience as a sperm, but you would somehow need to be able to choose which sperm you possess instead of just luck out and be the sperm that just happened to enter Souma's mom's womb otherwise it's just as luck based.

So unless you worked your ass in heaven, hell, or whatever reincarnation cycle non-sense you believe in and cheated the system, you didn't do SHIT to earn that spot as Jouichirou's son.

>>135583915
Does matter if the people he was fighting at the time were fags because he was an even bigger fag at the time but still defeated them "somehow" and he also fought talented martial artists and kept winning, and just like Ippo he kept getting hit and hit and always stood up, because he was a "beast", he was "different", special, you name it, whether Yuu Kamishiro is as much of a snowflake and Kenichi or other characters mentioned in this thread doesn't matter, the point is that he's still a special snowflake even if of a lesser degree.

>ITT: Anyone's who'de moderately good at anything is a special snowflake
There's no winning with you guys.

>>135584050
>AND wasn't some special snowflake OR had family lineage bs

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Pic related

>>135583981
>based around that average those who master such activity or learn it at a much faster rate are considered talented

But that's both incorrect and inaccurate.

Let's say two people have the same amount of talent, but one only practices 1 hour a day, while the other person practices 10 hours a day, objectively speaking it's wrong to say the latter is more talented because he improved faster. He improved faster because he put in more time and effort, because he had different priorities and probably missed on a lot of time he could have spent with his family and friends like the other person. Talent has nothing to do with it.

As such it's infantile to even consider quantifying people's talents based on a principle like that, because you know absolutely nothing about their lives, their method of learning, their level of concentration or self-discipline to keep them from thinking about other things in the middle of the session, etc.

>>135584177
>>135584186

>>135584094
>Has inhuman endurance due to his ability to enhance his oxygen intake
>Can send oxygen pulses directly to his muscles to hit harder than a truck
>Can manipulate the air around him to make jet engine sounds when using the Dempsey roll for dramatic effect
>Can send copious amounts of pure oxygen to his brain to cause illusions that help him come back from the brink of unconsciousness
>Getting slapped on the back allows him to become invincible
>Yamaoto damashii
>When in a bind he can turn into an Oxygen Elemental to avoid physical damage for three turns

Ippo is fucking broken, face it.

>>135584003
Only reason he might count is because he's still flawed as hell, but it was his luck that allowed him to live long enough to meet Astro Spiker instead of die like everyone else.

>>135584018
>90+alpha
>+alpha
>alpha

Nope. Only 3 people in the series have alphas, Kyoukai with HUGE alpha, Shin with alpha, and Bajio with alpha.

Not even Yotanwa or Ouki or Houken or Renpahas alpha.

Literally more special than Conq Haki.

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Everything he gained was the result of beyond batshit insane training.

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>>135584177

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Literally nothing Mary Sue-ish about him at all

>>135584264
>Son of the worlds strongest man

>>135584230
Family lineage? That's one objective qualifier. I won't discuss it.

Special snowflake? What's the definition of it? People are even calling someone who has proper high-quality education in whatever a special snowflake. Whatever they do, no matter how, when or with who, they are special snowflake garty stu choosen one.

>>135582289
>kid who learned boxing from books is able to defeat much bigger fighters who trained since childhood and with much more experience in both competition and street fighting
>not a special snowflake

>>135584286
>It almost never updates
It's a fucking shame I love the idea of it

>>135584069
Most of the character are self taught, it's a manga about street fighting and thugs, thugs don't got to gym to learn, they all learn that shit on the street even if they don't become very good. Whether he was a hikikimori doesnt matter either, the idea is that before that he had no idea he was talented or that he had potential, if he had been born somewhere else and began doing martial arts or whatever they could've normally mentioned how naturally talented he was.

Again, he did work hard but he still learned a bunch of fucking difficult ass techniques and skills in no time because he was "special"

>>135583790
I get the feeling he should have been the MC. Though i gave up not even halfway through this series.

>>135584292
My dad is huge and muscled, and was a huge bully back in highschool and top fighter of his school. (Mellowed out after army and when he met mom)

Why am I a weakling?

>>135583482
But he got so strong because of a magic power up.

>>135584362
>of his school.

Wow, that must mean he is equal to the strongest man in the entire world, right?

>>135584334
The chink manga is way ahead of the translations
Take your anger on the translators

>He's self taught? Special snowflake
>He had a really good master? Special snowflake

I'm amazed we honestly have these two in this thread right now.

>>135584156
>because he was an even bigger fag at the time

That's not true, like I said the 'somehow' was that Yuu was smart. He had the same advantage Charisma did over everyone else, which was having the brains and willingness to learn how to get stronger. 90% of the people Yuu fought didn't even try to better themselves on a daily basis. Even fat Judo guy doesn't train much, he just eats a lot and gets by on being hot shit at Judo.

He's the hard worker of Holy Land yes, but that's because he entered the land of losers. That's the entire fucking point of the whole graduating thing. People like Charisma graduate and make use of their talents to make it to the top of the world, while the other drop out fags just get minimum wage jobs and suffer. Meanwhile Yuu is chuuni and stays on the streets because despite being fully capable of getting a decent job, he enjoys that stage of life even more than his future livelihood. He lives in the 'now', which is why everyone refers to him like he's in the past in the epilogue.

>>135583345
what are you talking about there was no prophecy stating that the legendary super sayain would ever defeat freiza.

>>135583660
If we went by it to the literal degree like that then there is no protagonist who satisfies both. Working hard alone doesn't make you as strong as even the hardwork characters. There has to be some degree of you being a special snowflake.

Plus it's not like dragon bestowed anything on luffy, he just had him and dipped. I suppose Gon comes from a family lineage too then right?

Also most D's end up dead and not all of them are super strong or powerful like law's family or Saul. With all of those D's, it's more like just being a part of a certain race or group rather than being a special snowflake

>>135584286
Only cause Pirate Askeladd hasn't died yet.

>>135583866
Winrar not talking about the dubs

>>135584177
No MC can qualify because "special snowflake" is too subjective.

>>135584447
>MCs

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>>135582165

Doesn't the fact that they got so strong make them a special snowflake to begin with?

>>135584231
I don't even read ippo, but I fucking love this oxygen meme.

>>135584219
I get your point but what if you take the hours each of them spends on practicing, don't think of them as two new guys that join some club, gym or whatever and start at the same times. Think of the first 100 hours the first person trained or practiced and imagine it took him 1 year, and think of the second peroson's 100 hours that took him 3 years. The time it took them is irrelevant, but the 100 hours of practice they did, if one of them has become much more proficient and skillfull in those same 100 hours wouldn't you say he's more talented?

>>135584399
>getting angry at EGS which translates entire libraries of series

I don't think even anon can be that ungrateful.

>>135584477
Well he is in the main group

>>135584397
Point is exactly the same. Muscles don't get passed in through birth, he only gets one goddamn chromosome from a tiny bit of his sperm.

All the characters who are strong/smart/specialized in the same area as their father did not receive those skills through genes, but through education. The son of a musician is exposed to more music at an early age, so of course he'll seem "talented" at 14 compared to the son of a farmer who only sent him to music school at 12.

>>135584510
He's not even in the main group. Did you even watch the show?

Eyebrows from Teppei

>>135584431
>Who is Kurosawa

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>>135582165
this nigga is just your average guy he just isn't going to die

>>135583790
dropped in first chapter cuz he isnt the MC

>>135584535
With main group I meant the title guild.

>>135584507
I'm genuinely surprised by the amount of works they have on their site. They even got a better reader than most sites

>>135584568
>DUDE I RODE A BIKE REALLY FAST ONCE NOW I CAN FIGHT EVENLY WITH GIANT ALIEN WARLORDS LMAO

The other characters in the mango constantly comment on how he's special.

>>135584231
No wonder it took mother fucking Date and Alfedo to beat him. How do you survive 3 whole turns of him not taking damage?

>>135584626
No they all comment on his amazing will to live. If theirs a will there's a way

>>135583326
>son of one of the strongest and most mysterious characters
>grandson of an admiral
>one of the 4 emperors sacrificed his arm for him
>has the rarest and strongest haki
>the most beautiful woman on earth lusts for his cock
>defeats enemies 10 times stronger and with more training just because "muh resolution, muh ambition"
He's the definitive snowflake

>>135582741
He's a good example, his growth is great. Starts as a shitty kid with a sword in a mercenery group and slowly as a soldier gets stronger and stronger, just by fighting continuosly. Also his motivations are stronger, not just "I wanna be king of pirates shit"

>>135584489
No, the fact that all the effort they did was invalidated cause "muh special one". It's the same problem when it comes to fantasy.

The hero's not great because he worked and desired to, it's because he had the sponsorship of the most powerful gods/uber lineage/null the power/all the powers.

>>135584626
Wrong, they just admire his determination

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>born to be a nerd with low-tier powers
>became the most successful superhero ever through nothing but hard work and discipline
More a deuteragonist than MC, but still.

>>135584629
>How do you survive 3 whole turns of him not taking damage?

You just avoid his extremely easy to dodge swings. Shit, Woli was able to dodge everything he threw other than tiny babby jabs the entire match.

Also Ippo winning the Woli fight is proof that he's bullshit.

>>135584411
Have you ever practiced any martial art or something? Learning to kick is extremely difficult, takes months or years. Shougo had been training since he was a kid and shit, Kamishiro was weak as shit, they're noth supposed to be hard working, couple volumes later and Yuu is twice as strong as Shougo and can beat him like it ain't no thang, despite Shougo, being hard working and training since young.

>>135584503
Personally I'd still owe it up to personal motivation and determination. I've been a kid learning stuff myself, and I know what it means to "learn" something but be thinking about video games instead, and I've managed to know a couple of times what it means to be so absorbed in practice that you didn't notice hours passing by.

Our brain structure is nearly identical , so it's hard for me to believe any advantage someone could have would get past a 5% margin.

The biggest factor will always be in my opinion the time you spent and the age you were exposed to it, putting kids who started early at an advantage.

>>135583790
Man even though he's not the Mc he's a good example, even has a special snowflake older brother.

>>135584626
He's actually not special in the sense everyone in this thread is talking about though. He's just willing to be ballsy and has no fear of the consequence, no hesitation so to speak.

The only reason he becomes 'special' is because the Gantz suit gives so much fucking power that everything he lacks no longer matters. Notice how at no point was it verified that Muscle Rider can somehow punch or strike or lift significantly more than any other Gantzer.

The suit itself enhances your abilities so much and combined with the author's pension to leave everything vague, it's practically headcanon to assume muscle/fitness = moar powa in the suit.

Otherwise none of the girls would be worth shit, but Reika ends up as one of the better Gantzers, wiping out two armies across the series though the latter she ends up dying as well.

It's this very fact that allows Kurono to rival Izumi, who otherwise is his superior in every physical way. Once the suit is on, the only difference is in how you use it, not whether or not you can use it. That's why Kei is 'special', because unlike a typical nip who is raised to be restrained he's 'free'. That's one of the core themes of Gantz. Freedom and it's consequences. Osaka was the other extreme end of what Kurono was, with the team just being retarded cause they could lacking any restraint.

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>>135584370
Still with family lineage.

>>135584677
Luffy

>Total snowflake

Guy who survived being born from a dead womb, crying in a pool of corpses
survived after being raped, chased by his own group, and getting chased and mauled by wolves on his own
Able to carry a sword "Too big to be considered a blade
Is somehow a normal human who can kill apocalyptic demons on a daily basis
Survived a hell pit of demons that killed everyone else in his clan...

>That guy is so realistic, not a snowflake

Please leave. I don't care if it's reddit, if it's MAL, but please fuck off where no sane person has to ever encounter you.

>>135584568
Getting powa by harnesing his boner.
Nigga are you for real?

>>135584763
Woli is the future Martinez. I don't think anyone else can do that shit except Takamura.

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>>135582165
This queer

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>>135582165
This guy.

>>135584560
No seriously, who is that? I'll bet you they're either A. Not an MC or B. A snowflake you just don't accept is a snowflake

>>135584946
Winners don't use drugs.

>>135584946
He was up until he got inserted with that bs thing inside him.

>>135584809

>That fucking mahjong game where it finally hit home that the only person he could truly rely on was himself

It took him a long time but goddamn was it glorious

>doesn't even give a second glance when those traitorous faggots beg for forgiveness

What an amazing arc.

>>135584718
>The hero's not great because he worked and desired to, it's because he had the sponsorship of the most powerful gods/uber lineage/null the power/all the powers.
This is very contradicting.

>Hero becomes the strongest on his own because reasons
Special snowflake who can do better than the people with lineages and good teachers

>Hero becomes the strongest because he had a real good teacher
Special snowflake because he beats the people who got good because "hard work" and the people who have powers because lineage

>Hero becomes the strongest because he was born from the strongest
Special snowflake who never had to work for anything and beats the people who worked hard both, along and under guidance, just because he was the fastest spermathozoid.

You fuckers are never happy, you never are satisfied. No matter what you will just keep searching for a something to cherrypick, twist and critizice so you can confirm your own "The MC is a special snowflake" bias.

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>>135584867
Fuck, wrong picture

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>>135584946
If only he didn't have that magical chi thing inside of him, and didn't have the ability to use the Black Heaven & Earth.
>you'll never get a conclusion to The Breaker

>>135584968
>Worked hard to get strong
>Strong

You're missing a key point here senpai, Ash works hard, but he isn't strong because he constantly resets himself to zero and is incapable of winning a league.

Mx0

>>135585031
I think it has to do with the rise of rampant contrarianism likely stemming from the increase of newfags over the past several years, turning everything into an argument because gotta be overly-hostile to fit in.

>>135585043
>you'll never get a conclusion to The Breaker
It's disappointing that the author is deciding to waste his time with some webtoon trash instead.

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>>135582165
Kid had a real fucked up life

>>135585031
Took you long enough to figure it out.

MC becomes competent at something = talented HE JUST DIDN'T KNOW IT UNTIL AFTER HE TRAINED HARD ENOUGH

>>135585110
Yep. Basically shat all over any readers.
>take forever to finish NW because shit pacing
>WELP we're bored gonna take a break later gators!

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>>135582165
>ITT: MC's that actually worked hard to get strong and wasn't some special snowflake or had family lineage bs
Why not.

>>135583155
>son of the best cook in the world with weird-ass cooking style that always catches even the most experienced opponent by surprise
>not special snowflake

>>135585047
Also his pikachu is a special snowflake.

>>135583326
>hard work
zorro trains 25 hours a day while this nigga eats and shit and still manages to be the captain and beat the boss enemy. hardwork indeed

>>135585112
>3 different watermarks

>>135584791
Shougo was a manlet, a retard, and fucked himself up along the way a few times ranging from hanging out with other retards and picking fights instead of properly training, to almost if not doing drugs.

Yuu on the other hand, took a nearly scientific approach to everything, and repeated motions over and over like Ippo does to the point where it's all he knew. Shougo never sacrificed all his time to go out or whatever just to train in a tiny ass room repeating one fucking motion.

Like Bruce Lee says, the guy who trains 1 kick 10000 times is way scarier than the opposite. Shougo was definitely less talented than Yuu, but only because Shougo was too much of a retard and mentally weak person. Every time he went up a level, his silly pride got in his way too much while Yuu never had any to begin with.

Even an idiot can figure out who was going to be stronger when you look at what they do day after day side by side. Shougo wanted to be strong for the sake of being stronger than others. Yuu wanted to be stronger for the sake of being stronger with no thoughts given to others.

Shougo is just a classic example of how working hard but not working smart doesn't yield results. It's like how people used improper training methods they deemed 'the basics' 50 years ago, like bunny hops up stairs and shit that only hurt your back and serve no real purpose compared to other methods.

Lastly like I said earlier about the weak mentality, Shougo loses nearly all his fights due to his lack of resolve/determination. He panics and spills his spaghetti all over the place like nothing. But he never acknowledges that and always thinks it's unfair or seeks other methods instead of fixing it.

Just because they're talented don't mean they don't work hard at all.

>>135583082
Well it's hard not to be talented at something when you've been practicing it since you were fucking three, every sword he's ever used was bigger than him. And only through struggle, willpower, and a great deal of luck has he managed to survive to this point. Even his status as a being that lives outside the bounds of causality came as a result of the strength and skill he'd painstakingly built up over the course of his entire life.

>>135585036
Lineage or not, he was still beaten to near-death virtually every single day. I think that supercedes whatever lineage bonus he had.

>>135584982
>2016
>Doesn't know Strongest Man Kurosawa

You have no idea how wrong you are.

>>135585138

Is Claymore still going? Fuck.

>>135585150
Zoro trains 3 hours a day and sleeps and drinks booze the other 22 hours.

>>135585047
Being the strongest =/= not being strong
No matter how you twist it Ash is a real damn good trainer.

Top 16/8/4/4/8/??? in every region league.

Conquered the Battle Frontier.

He was the only trainer is all of Sinnoh capable of beating a Darkrai who swept the entire region on it's on and as a bonus he beat a Latios that literally NO ONE knew existed.

He consistently produces high-quality results. He's strong. And this i without bringing in all the crap he pulls in the movies.

If you ha a point towards Ash being a special snowflake you have The Aura which is a sign of the Specialest Snowflake you can possibly be thanks to Lucario-sama the greatest most amazing Pokemon ever.

>>135584431
>If we went by it to the literal degree like that then there is no protagonist who satisfies both. Working hard alone doesn't make you as strong as even the hardwork characters. There has to be some degree of you being a special snowflake.
Read more than 5 manga

>>135585245
If you talented you see how to need learn. If you are not, this is only hard work and try and mistake.

>>135585300
It ended months ago. Maybe even a year ago now. I really don't remember.

>>135585308
at least zorro trains. when did we ever see luffy in training except for the 2 year timeskip.

>>135585245
>MC's that actually worked hard to get strong
>AND wasn't some special snowflake
>AND didn't had family lineage bs
If someone works hard it doesn't mean he isn't a special snowflake either. It isn't exclusive.

>>135584809
Finally someone gets it.

>>135584968
>Has the strongest legendary busting Pikachu

>>135585061
>Literally Tou-Man's ancestor aka born under a lucky star

Dragon/Illusion Breaker is just Kuzumi melding Mx0 with his body and passing it onto his kids. Dragon comes from Lucy because ManDRAKE.

>>135585325
>16/8/4/4/8/

This is why it's hard to judge Ash, though. He constantly changes in between seasons. He goes from being competent in Sinnoh to a bumbling dumbfuck in Unova (And he was such a kid)

Sure he beat Darkrai and Latios, but then his Pikachu that he's had for a long time gets stomped by a fucking fresh-out-the-lab Snivy. He isn't a consistent character.

>>135585358
> I can't tell the MC from my obscure as fuck manga no one likes is a special snowflake.

No one cares about the 800+ garbage series you read. Post an example or fuck off

>>135585047
>I've only ever watched the OS and BW

He's not incapable of winning the league because he's unskilled (51 gym badges, 2 championships, 7 frontier symbols, 16 tournament wins) he's incapable of winning the league because the writers literally don't want him to. At his best they wrote in a character with a team of legends to get him out of the league. All the more reason why he's a shinning example of working hard to get strong instead of just being there for plot convenience.

>>135584378
?

He failed to become the Invisible; and he only got strong because he spent all of his free time on a mountain digging holes.

If you're talking about his final fight with the Crow Knight, they both got a power up at the same time, and that match was just for fun.

>>135583866
This, if MC wasn't talented snowflake then the series would have ended mid way.

>>135583187

He was literally granted this power by some mysterious force.

Did anyone notice the foreshadowing in ONES version, after the MA arc, he goes up to the sensor and it detects monsters and we're supposed to assume "lol the monsters with him are causing him problems", truth is we still don't know for sure it wasn't going off because of him.

>>135585436
>strongest legendary busting pikachu
>Mega lucario almost murders it.

At best you'll have a character who works hard and doesn't come from a special family lineage.

Hell even someone who comes from a family lineage but has to work hard anyway may be good enough.

But you're never going to find someone who works hard, doesn't come from a family lineage, AND isn't a special snowflake. Part of being an MC pretty much is standing out in someway from the rest of the cast.

>>135585283
Hanayama was obliterated back and forth through the main story AND his spin-on, didn't help him none. The whole "Hanma blood" and it being activated or not was a big deal in the series.

If anything, out of all the Hanmas, Jack was the one who accomplished the most without falling back on the lineage.

>>135585325
>He was the only trainer is all of Sinnoh capable of beating a Darkrai who swept the entire region on it's on and as a bonus he beat a Latios that literally NO ONE knew existed.

What was Cynthia not part of Sinnoh? She shat on Tobias.

>>135585458
>51 gym badges
that is the lowest key tier for any trainer

>>135585526
> He litterally got his powers through my theory and headcanon.

Don't make fact out of speculation please.

>>135583593
Shut your whore mouth

>>135585437
>He isn't a consistent character.
Unova is the only place where you can say Ash has been inconsistent.

From Gen 1 to Gen 2 to Gen 3 to Gen 4 you could see him grown and become more and more competent. And even now in Gen 6 Ash is super alpha as fuck gives no fuck Serena and Citron cum themselves whenever Ash does something cool.

Gen 5 is a total fuck-up and everyone should just pretend that season does not exist. Gen 6 has been the natural progression from Gen 4 Ash.

>>135585563
Cynthia is Gamefreak's Lightning, though.

>>135585528
>Lucario

That fucker doesn't count, he's the 2nd mascot aka genius rival of Pikachu. Just wait 20 years from now when Pokemon anime reaches the finale, Pikachu will beat Lucario with 1 hp left over.

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>>135584050
>AHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHUE I HAVE THE POWER OF EVERY SINGLE CLASSES AND RACE AHUEHUEHEUHUEHUEHUE
>Not a special snowflake

Pic related, it is you

>>135585575
>that is the lowest key tier for any trainer
That's more gym badges than you can earn by playing every generation anon.

>>135584152
Too bad i can't read the LN.

>>135585510
>wasn't some special snowflake or had family lineage bs
No.

>>135585510
literally a god

>>135585536
>AND isn't a special snowflake.

Can you define what being a special snowflake entails?

I mean "doesn't work hard" , "doesn't get power up" and "doesn't have a lineage" are easy to understand. What exactly are the physical requirements for him to not be a special snowflake?

>>135585563
>>135585592
Aren't you confusing Tobias with Paul?

Also, Cynthia's the fucking chamption. She has every right to be a special snowflake because she makes the damn rules.

>>135585614
>when Pokemon anime reaches the finale, Pikachu will beat Lucario with 1 hp left over.
Jokes on you, that already happened in the mess that was Unova.

>>135585593
I wonder if she can beat Red or Gold. That Nigger Chomp of hers seems invincible.

>>135585485
I meant he got his power up from dog knights wish, which transferred his power into him.

>>135585675
Meant to quote >>135585593

>>135585675
Tobias is the guy with Darkrai right? Cause Darkrai fag lost to Cynthia's Garchomp after slaughtering Ash and winning the league.

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>>135582165
Wrong place, wrong time.

>>135583757
>90% true, the last 10% is the saiyan hack that if they recover after close to dead thats a free boost
This always bothered me. Couldn't they have become a virtually invincible race by setting up near-death camps? You know, just wound them to a point where they almost die, let them recover, then repeat it ad infinitum.

>>135585047
That last bit is less because of skill and more because writers just don't want him to win.

Sinnoh had the writers toss a nigga with legendaries at him and even then Ash managed to take one out.

>>135585705
>Cause Darkrai fag lost to Cynthia's Garchomp after slaughtering Ash and winning the league.
[citation needed]

>>135585675
>that already happened in the mess that was Unova.

Oh, does this mean Mega Lucario is like Edgy Sasuke mode?

>>135585674
I'm not the OP so don't know what he meant by it.

It seems everyone has been interpreting it in their own way, I've got it as standing out from the majority of the people either through skill or ideology.

I think doesn't get a power up is a better way of weeding out the fakes.

>>135585719
Chosen by Satan to save the world.

>>135585592
>Gen 5 is a total fuck-up and everyone should just pretend that season does not exist.

That was BW right? Just what the fuck happened in that season of the anime?

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WASSUP FAGETS

>>135585728
maybe is something temporal? like when you get invincible on some games after a revive

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>Allen Walker

Literally loses every fight he's in with the Noahs. Fuck the whole Order are complete jobbers.

>>135585706
But Tatsuya was the naturally gifted brother. The reason Kazuya went so hard was because he knew Tatsuya would catch up if he ever gave a shit. He literally became a better pitcher than someone who had been pitching his whole life in less than two years.

>>135585758
Mega Lucario is a normal Mega Evolution. Korrina's Lucario, something that happened in Kalos, went full edgy mode for reasons I don't remember at the moment. Something about his bond with Korrina not being strong enough or something like that.

Unova's Lucario, the one who beat Ash at the end of the league, was owned by this retard Ash befriended who though you needed 7 badges to join the league, that the Unova league happened in Johto and that for Ash match he thought you had to bring 5 Pokemon instead of 6.

The cherry on top was that the Riolu the retard owned evolved mid-match vs Pikachu and beat him that way. And the cream on top of the cherry was that Riolu into Lucario was not even retard last Pokemon.

>>135585798
Shitty staff that thankfully got kicked out for Gen 6. I think they tried to do a "reset" just like the Gen 5 games kinda did but took it way too far.

>>135585728
Alwasys assumed it would fail if the Saiyan didn't honestly believe he would die if he didn't push his abilities further, in a "natural" encounter", but fairly sure the series disproved that notion.

>>135585863
Except Lenalee. I feel like she won every fight she's been in, and it's usually against the new big akuma threat.

>>135585862
I don't know the exact wording that Vegeta gave on Namek, but that is the only logical explanation outside of bad writing

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>>135582165
He actually had to study to become Boss of Japan

>>135585746
Oh wait you're right, she stomped Lucien not Tobias. Still it's strange how there's no word of Tobias' progress challenging the E4/Champions.

>>135583716
>He only became strong because he trained nonstop
>He is of a WARRIOR ALIEN RACE that is objectively stronger than average human
>And they become stronger the more they are pushed
>And he has this drug that heal him 100% everytime

Yeah, sure is working hard here

Do you have brain problem?

>>135585863
Being a loser doesn't have anything to do with being a special snowflake, which he is.

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>>135584231
>Can manipulate the air around him to make jet engine sounds when using the Dempsey roll for dramatic effect

>>135585863
>The theme of the manga is literally THE CHOSEN ONE
>No special snowflake

Que?

>>135584827
That margin is extremely small in my opinion, you're making it sound like talent or natural born geniuses aren't a real thing, also take into account that that margin changes drastically depending on the activity, in terms of sports, physical structure, like being tall, short, heavy, skinny become important factors as well.

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>>135585774
Yeah but Satan started him out at level one; all his friends became bosses and shit.

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>>135585774
8/10

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>>135585447
>every manga I don't read is obscure

>>135586123
Can Tokyo ghoul fags get any more retarded?

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>>135585971
>Tobias

>>135586057
Don't forget about early age nutrition and health, which you know as a toddler and child you obviously have little control over.

>>135585526

Nah, it was the tooth. Just like how Boros was limited by his armor, Saitama's bad tooth was holding him back.

>>135585971
Why would there be? He was an one-shot asspull to stop Ash from winning the league.

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That's pretty much the entire point of Ironfist Chinmi.

>>135586081
Still haven't beaten this game. Can't get past fucking Dante.

Hell.

Let's do something more fun.

Instead of whining because no matter what or who the MC will be considered a special snowflake. Let's list who's the most special snowflakes of them all.

Hard mode : No Naruto
Dante must die mode: No Onii-sama

>>135586213
So we can see how the world beyond Ash progresses, whether or not a guy like Tobias can legendary his way to champion or if the champions just shit all over him with SKILL.

This is just me, but the way I see it if Ash ever got to the point where he's in his 20s/30s and became champion, Pikachu would be in the same position Cynthia's Darkrai is. An unstoppable nightmare.

>>135585230
Most of what you mentioned about Shougo happened way after Yuu had already fucked him over, not once but twice. Shougo did repetitions and training a fuckload just like Yuu, there's a reason he was considered so good at Karate, he had been practicing it since he was young because of his father. You're just mentioning shit like pride, being mentally weak and all that shit when that's all bullshit, Yuu was a retarded mess himself, emotionally unstable and whatnot. Just because they don't show Shougo in his dojo training 24/7 doesn't mean he didn't do it. Honestly don't understand were you're getting the idea that Shougo was dumb and trained the wrong way.

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>no special family lineage
>no training from one of the best trainers in the world
>no prophecy,chosen one,etc
>no super rare power that he just happened to possess
>not especially talented
>if working with familiars/weapons tied to him, the same applies to them

Y/N

>>135582289
This guy has the power of autism though.
5000 punches everyday is insane, 99.9% of the world wouldnt have that amount of resolve.

And the fact he only trained one type of punch makes it even worse.

Also the reason he wins his fights isn't cause he's special or anything, it's cause the other guys are just amateurs and he's ready to do anything to win ( remember how he couldnt win against that boxer guy so he kicked him in the face )

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>>135586248
Casual. I bet you don't even use de/buffs.

>>135584334
New chapter came out. Pretty good.

>>135586300
>Joestar lineage
>Not a special snowflake one

>>135586300
>stands
>no super rare power that he just happened to possess
Are you fucking serious?

>>135586348
The pic isn't related,I just fucked up.

>>135585909
>Unova's Lucario, the one who beat Ash at the end of the league, was owned by this retard Ash befriended who though you needed 7 badges to join the league, that the Unova league happened in Johto and that for Ash match he thought you had to bring 5 Pokemon instead of 6.
>The cherry on top was that the Riolu the retard owned evolved mid-match vs Pikachu and beat him that way. And the cream on top of the cherry was that Riolu into Lucario was not even retard last Pokemon.


This all sounds like a horrible clusterfuck and I can't see anyone being happy with that outcome.

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>>135586283
That was easy

>>135586326
N-no, I don't.

>>135586390
I lost count of how many people he's supposed to be related to

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>>135586283
Too easy senpai

>>135586311
The reason he won so many fights is because of asspulls and shit writing, he's not willing to do anything to win, otherwise we would see much more grabbing, tossing, biting, nut shots, eye poking, grabbing fingers and much more. If the people he fought at the beginning were amateurs then so was he, having practiced some fucking straight doesn't make him not an amateur.

>>135586411
Seriously? Get the fuck out.

>>135583923
>half god with divine power, human smelting aura, dark one's soul gear power and the nothingness power too. Also, his divine power is shared only with the first main antagonist and most powerful character in the series.

>>135586123
I like Tokyo Ghoul and you are fucking retarded. Kaneki only ever shaped up to be a good fighter because a mad scientist decided to make him a ghoul-human hybrid.

>>135583923
he doesn't fit the OP, but he is a cool dude. He's like Ichigo with everybody's power systems, except he combines them in interesting ways and has a personality and stuff.

>>135586498
He is the final antagonist too

>>135586296
>Shougo did repetitions and training a fuckload just like Yuu, there's a reason he was considered so good at Karate, he had been practicing it since he was young because of his father.

Yes, but he's not scientific about it. He understands what his father teaches him, what he's instructed, and anything more is based on his limited experience. Yuu goes out of his way to test everything when he's practicing his motions, which is how he's able to come up with his turnaround victories.

In simple terms, Yuu thinks outside of the box, whereas Shougo is confined to the normality of being associated with martial arts. If you know anything about MMA it's that MMA fighters usually take a more scientific approach and deconstructing/rebuilding their fighting styles to cater to their opponents and shit, rather than dedicate to simply one style.

That is the difference between Yuu and Shougo in essence. One fights to win a fight, one fights to be on top of someone else.

And no, mental strength was never bullshit. Yuu was a mess but that's exactly what allowed him to sacrifice everything and go full autism. He had nothing to lose in his mind and he was able to fully immerse himself in training without ever feeling like he's wasting time or whatever.

With Shougo, it's about training to become stronger than X and maintain his sense of pride and status on the streets as a martial artist. That's unnecessary thoughts. Just look at when he lost to the druggie. He was winning, yet instead of keeping calm and being ready for the opponent's last struggle which any cornered opponent would do, he just panics the moment the shitter pulls a street move.

In contrast Yuu is literally so fucked up in the head that he doesn't even care about physical pain so much as losing his place in his holy land. He's sacrificed everything from his body to his mind and as a result he could pull shit Shougo couldn't, no normal punk could.

>>135586546
>Combine

He doesnt combine shit he just use them one after another

At the start there was that rule of "one thing at a time"and then he completely disregarded it too

>>135584334

They just updated today though.

>>135586311
He's a street figher not a boxer so of course he can't win a boxing match against a legitimate boxer. Also I don't understand how him fighting amateurs mean anything since he also new himself.
>Autism make you a special snowflake
what.

>>135584626

Did you even read the manga you cunt. They admire his bravery and his will to live. They always comment on how when they're with him, they feel like they can go through anything and want to reach greater heights.

>>135586599
using all your powers in tandem in a fight is a kind of combination. He can't use full Monochrome while using the full strength of his smelting aura, so he's always balancing those. plus he never forgot his human weapons tricks, and is now powering that shit up with the dark ones' soul gear stuff.

It's a hell of a lot more interesting than "every powerup I get means I can shoot a bigger sword beam" Ichigo.

>>135586485
You are misinterpreting it. The reason he doesn't do those things is because he's focused on what he trains on to do anything like that. If he was flexible enough to pull the shit off that you pointed out while still utilizing his training properly he would be the MC from Shamo, not Holyland.

In fact his trauma of being picked on and his retarded notion of the 'law' of the streets is another huge factor in why you never see him doing that shit. He doesn't want to be the bully, he just wants to be able to defend himself from bullies that do that shit to him.

Little did he know that the more he fought the more trouble he attracted, but Yuu already used up all his brain cells understanding basic striking/grappling techniques and how to fight on the streets so give him a break.

>>135585526
>>135586185
>this autism
Must be really nice. Living in your own world, ignoring all evidence that goes against whatever you insist is true. No, really, it seems so good. Never needing common sense or literary ability to validate your own beliefs. The bliss only the ignorant can experience.

>>135586057
>That margin is extremely small in my opinion, you're making it sound like talent or natural born geniuses aren't a real thing

More or less, I'd give it to you that some people can have a slight advantage if they're born with certain conditions, but they would have done well in that field either way.

Mozart for example, many people would say that he's talented while ignoring the fact that one of his parents was a musician while the other a music teacher, and that they taught him ever since he was something like 2 years old.


> also take into account that that margin changes drastically depending on the activity, in terms of sports, physical structure, like being tall, short, heavy, skinny become important factors as well.

True, all racism aside I do believe Usain Bolt has an advantage because of his race. However the difference between him and the fastest caucasian is a matter of milliseconds, something like 0,08 seconds, which relates to my statement of very small margins.

Talent might matter when wanting to be the "best", absolute number 1, but it won't hold you back from becoming "good" or in top 25 of a certain field.

Of course keep in mind that we're not taking into consideration exceptions such as people without legs, or mentally disabled.

>>135585557
I think Hanayama is the one who became the biggest badass despite not having any training at all

>>135585667
That's the joke, stupid

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>Ctrl+F
>no Thorfinn
>no Askeladd
>no Canute
really, /a/?

>>135586657
I think it speaks more about the series when you keep having to compare it to mother fucking Bleach of all things. That's scrapping the barrel.

>>135586723

>Father is the best fighter in their land

please.

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>ctrl+f "miyamoto"
>0 results
>ctrl+f "musashi"
>0 results
>ctrl+f "vagabond"
>0 results
Fuck all of you.

>>135586723
>Son of Thors
>Motherfucking King Arthur
>Prince

Only Einar was remotely normalfag.

>>135586758
It's just the easiest comparison because they're both the "each arc the protag gets a new set of powers from a new source" type, except FSJ does it well and Bleach doesn't.

I think Ah Gou is a great protag, and the series is really fun. Fucking fight me. he doesn't apply in this thread, of course, nigga is the son of a king and a goddess.

>>135586763
Legendary swordsman's are special snowflake.

>>135586763
Shit.

>>135585557
Jack cheated though, with all the anabolic steroids, so I don't really think we can say he accomplished *anything* fairly. He had a wimp's body until he got on nigh-lethal amounts drugs and learned what eating was.

>>135586712
Agreed. He *let* Speck get in like 10 free hits/bullets, and still won that fight. I wanna see him actually do something cool in Baki Dou though, despite whoever it was saying that he knew his limits.

>>135586564
Most of what you're saying is complete bullshit in my opinion but anyways, you keep bringing up how fucked up Yuu is in the head, how outside the box he thinks, how he's unlike every other thung, etc. Does that mean he really is a special snowflake? I think he's special snowflake for more reasons other than that (shit writing) but still.

>>135586681
I believe the reason he doesn't do any of the shit I mentioned is simply due to bad or unrealistic writing, people praise the writing in the manga how being realistic but it really isn't far from it, it's very technical and detailed but not realistic, fights are never that clean and pure.

>>135586682

>2016
>still denying the limits on your power levels that your teeth imposes on you.

>>135586827
Eh I don't think it's a great series overall, but it's fun in it's own way. I'm just saying why would you compare FSJ to Bleach when you can compare it to shit like Ruler of the Land which is closer in genre.

>>135585999
That's one of my favorite moments from the series. Like damn the amount of no chill Ippo has ending that fight still gets me going.

>>135586689
>However the difference between him and the fastest caucasian is a matter of milliseconds, something like 0,08 seconds, which relates to my statement of very small margins.
That's a retarded comparison, the point is not his race, it's his physical structure. Whether race affects this is minimal. You shouldn't compare him to some other top Olympic athlete. Compare him, someone wit the right type of body for fast running or however you call it versus someone else that also practices "running" but doesn't have the optimal body type.

Luffy.

>>135586913
True, but the reason he had that wimp body is that he literally overtrained himself into a state of anorexia. The drugs just allowed him to keep up his absurd pace.

>>135586348
Jonathan was quite a normal (rich) guy.

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>>135586913
my heart was in my mouth when I read this. I was so fucking afraid Hanayama was gonna get killed.

>>135586791
Does being the son of Thors invalidate the hell that was Thorfinn's childhood?

>>135586925
>Does that mean he really is a special snowflake?

Compared to those around him? Yes. Compared to the average human bean? Absolutely not. The story is set on bumfuck streets, full of losers druggies and dropouts. Of course a kid who is academically capable but was pushed to give it all up and has absolutely no attachment to his previous life can look like a special snowflake among these people. Those same people are the ones who can't give up certain things in their lives which is what led them to ruin, status, drugs, thrills, pride, etc.

You seem to have a very hard time taking in what the author was trying to convey, so let's just stop.

>>135586712
Hanayama was a genetic freak who won the lottery just as much as the Hanmas did. Not only was he freakishly huge for his age, the kid was born with "divine hands" and spent his childhood wrenching metal for shits n giggles.

Still, easily the favorite in a series of cyborg assassins, demon-blood tryhards, awoken cavemen and giga-nigga fat-fetishists.

>>135586889
He became a legendary swordsman though hard work and introspection, not because he was a special snowflake.

>>135583728
vegeta trained alone
goku trained with kaios and shit

>>135585283
Please read OPs requirements again: It says no fucking bloodline.

>>135585774
Satan isn't even in that.

>>135586485
He's not talented enough to improvise shit, and street fights aren't that violent either. All he can do is try and learn new techniques. And he does pick up grappling, hitting to the back of the head and all that.

Also if you did 5000 proper punches everyday that motion would become as natural as walking, Yuu isn't that strong but his straight would be in the level of elite pro fighters.

>>135587092
Having a hellish childhood doesn't somehow invalidate you having the DNA of a god-tier warrior, it just merely provides support in how a little runt could survive over a decade being thrown on the battlefield with little support given.

He also essentially grew up under Askeladd, then met Thorkell and Canute.

Historically Thorfinn never met Canute, nor was he confirmed to be related to Thorkell. So by common sense alone he's already far more special snowflake than his real life counterpart.

Oh, and he tanked 100 punches, most of them to the face. WITHOUT OXYGEN.

>>135586889
Legendary for his actions (in real life mostly for being a cunning douche).

>>135587177
Musashi was a genius who beat master of martial art Mutsu. By the way Mutsu was the strongest man in Japan.

>>135583905
I don't understand. Someone explain this picture?

>>135587177
In Vagabond, his father was already a legendary swordsman. So you're wrong. He was talented even at a young age. Talented enough that his body told him what to do just by swinging a sword around in the middle of a forest all day during his childhood.

Try letting a million kids do that in their childhood and tell us how many of them become half as good as Musashi during Sekigahara.

>>135587255
>Yuu isn't that strong but his straight would be in the level of elite pro fighters.

Not him, but only the technique would be. The actual performance of that straight would still be dogshit due to his relative lack of muscle it's not like Yuu ever changed his diet significantly.

>>135587148
I get what the author was trying to convey, I just don't think he did it very well. If he wanted to take a more realistic approach and not make Yuu a special snowflake he should've had him lose way more fights from the very beginning, like way way more to show a more natural progression.

>>135587404
You don't think it's realistic, but plenty of people think it is and can see where he's coming from. This is more of your own personal problem than anything else.

>>135583369
Everybody has it at this point.
His father is dragon and his grandfather is a famous marine though so he does have a special lineage.

>>135587255
>He's not talented enough to improvise shit, and street fights aren't that violent either. All he can do is try and learn new techniques.
Have you honestly never seen fighting videos on youtube or liveleak or real life? Improvising shit is what lack of skill produces. If the street fights aren't that violent either that's only because the author romanticized them and made them unrealistic.

>>135587356
Musashi's father was more of a detriment than a benefit by the current point of the story.

Musashi had generally 2 advantages as a child/young man: he was larger and stronger than most people around his age, and he was largely fearless. There are many times in the early part of the story where he could have easily died to people far superior than him in actual combat. Even when he fought Seijiro again, he was still technically weaker, but by then mentally stronger.

>>135587499
>Everyone playing in Ubers has a legendary on their team, what the fuck is so legendary about legendaries when they appear in every match?

>>135587499
>Everybody has it at this point.
Railegh, Luffy, who else?

>>135583709
He'd be in prison right now if dragon hadn't saved his anus from smoker.

>>135584397
Sick strawman bro.

>>135587526
He would have died at Sekigahara without being his father's son. Simple as that. Almost all of his sword moves were visualized based on improving upon his father's motions and constantly comparing himself to his father.

Having a bad example is better than having no example. Otherwise Matahachi would be just as strong.

>>135587442
>but plenty of people think it is
That doesn't mean I'm wrong, I believe people confuse the actual realism to the technicalities of the manga, like how he goes into deep detail on how techniques work and what happens and why, that doesn't mean the fights are realistic, if you truly think so then I urge to to watch some street fighting videos at the very least. Holyland is not that realistic.

>>135587342
The mc gained a power that stops him from engaging in tropes, all of those things are common manga plot lines.
It's a dick move because it makes all other mcs look like they just got lucky.
The girl doing the speaking at that point believes that she's really trapped in a story because everything goes her way and has done for like a really long time.

Leorio

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>>135586682
>This autism

Thinking you have it all figured out, pretending the clues aren't there, not understanding literary meanings. It must all seem so nice and neat for you.

>>135586925
>>135587506
Street fights are shit 90% of the time, the guys just hit and grab each other and usually there's not even a winner.

Fights are idealized yeah but not romanticized, the amount of damage the guys take is pretty realistic.

>>135587621
You're right, I just disagree that that makes him a special snowflake. He does have some lineage and thus experience, but even then it doesn't help him much past Sekigahara.

Having a reasonable amount of natural talent doesn't make a character a special snowflake. What would turn him into that is if he had some kind of special meteorite sword or some shit that can never be broken.

>>135587434

This snowflake is unlocking more abilities every day, he's literally chosen by the tower to fulfill a need.

I actually like how all the normals in this are called "Chosen Regulars", and the ones actually selected by the tower to fulfill a need are called "irregular". It's the little things that make a series interesting.

>>135587846
He's sort of special snowflake-ish anon. Horikoshi is doing a good job of not relying on that, but OfA is far too broken for it to be considered ever really fair.

>>135587624
It doesn't mean you're right either, you keep spouting opinions without anything to support them. Don't just tell people to watch shit instead of providing links.

Think for a minute instead of automatically defending your own opinions like you can't do no wrong. Assuming even one mother fucker on earth lived the exact same life as Yuu in reality, what the hell are the chances his fights would be available for you to Google it up? Do you really think most street fights somehow get recorded? Let alone recorded well enough that people can analyze them?

No shit Holyland is romanticized. That doesn't make the aspects of Yuu and Shougo's mental fortitude difference unrealistic. The very fact that you can't even be open minded enough to accept this already proves I'm right, since you lack the mental fortitude to accept this possibility just like Shougo wouldn't even think it was possible for some faggot to resort to dirty methods when losing, nor do you have the life experience to know people who want to fight or act like they can fight but when push comes to shove they panic and pussy out just like Shougo does.

>>135587836
So you're agreeing with me that Holyland fights are not realistic at all? That's basically what you said, excluding the amount of damage they take which I guess is not that unrealistic as the fights themselves.

>>135587836
It's romanticized in the set up and the difference of the opponents, along with the plot of the story. 999/1000 punks on the street wouldn't even go through half the shit Yuu did if they tried doing the same shit, well mostly cause they would get shot by then making it impossible.

>>135586977
>Compare him, someone wit the right type of body for fast running or however you call it versus someone else that also practices "running" but doesn't have the optimal body type.

Unfortunately that's a bit of a paradox. An athlete who wants to become an Olympic runner will change his diet and body as much as he can to accommodate better running. And other Olympic runners are the only people who have put in similar amount of time and effort into becoming good runners. (There'd be no point in comparing Bolt with a fat guy who jogs once a week)

Unless of course you can pinpoint and find the so called "right type of body", because all I know is that taller is generally better, but there are manlets of 5'9 height just milliseconds away from the top scores. But yeah if you take it to the extreme, becoming a top runner will be hard for someone that's literally a dwarf.

>>135587933
>Having a reasonable amount of natural talent doesn't make a character a special snowflake.

He lucks out completely when Seijuro spares his life, and plenty of more times after that. The real Musashi did not luck out anywhere as much, the novel just romanticizes it just like how 3 Kingdoms novel does to 3 Kingdoms records. It's definitely not some 1:1 factual evidence level documentary.

>>135588028
What the fuck are you talking about, mental fortitude this, mental fortitude that, dude just watch any fucking street fight on youtube, any! That shit just ain't clean and pretty and that's my whole point, as >>135587836 said it, most fights are shit, they're a mess, there's a bunch of grabbing, holding, pushing and a bunch of other shit. And Holyland fights are far from that.

>>135587255
>He's not talented enough to improvise shit

Fuck yes he is, he did a spinning back kick against that kendo guy and a decent takedown against that kickboxer. Now I don't know hit about takedowns, but a sniping back kick is something people can only pull out after some years of training.

>>135588146
Well constructed argument and comment. I forgot what the the gist of the discussion was about but you're right, even a manlet can be an Olympic athlete even thought the taller guys have more advantage and were born with such a gift.

>>135586123
Yes and no.

One part no, because he literally had the luck of not only getting a rinkaku kakuhou with god-tier regen implanted into his body, but he also was the best result of it. The others are either failed abominations or weaklings like the twins.

Even Seidou, who was given a better kakuhou got wrecked by Haise once he actually tried to use his kagune.

Though Kaneki did train a lot, and also lost his fair share of fights because he was simply not strong enough yet.

But then again, he's also the guy who is able to copy people and do what they do better, which is how he trained himself to begin with.

I do think murdering out ghoul restaurants and cannibalizing for months does qualify as "working hard for it.", though. So I'll you that.