>>120543955 She didn't try to trick anyone, she tried to make Madoka and co. aware of the dangers of becoming magical girls whilst fighting back her own strong desire to have them join her. She was also completely oblivious to the more insidious aspects of being a magical girl (becoming a witch), she didn't misrepresent anything.
>>120543955 Fuck off Homura, i will understand why you hate the sweet little miracle that is Mami, The slut with a golden heart that is Sayaka and you choose to fall in love with a useless moeblob that hate your guts that is Madoka
>is a passive aggressive bitch >hides behind her high class onee-sama facade >is a total cunt to Homura >her own stubbornness and carelessness led to her own death >is revived after basically fading out of relevance >has a mental breakdown and kills best girl >is killed again Why do people like this bitch again? Is it the tits? It's the tits, isn't it?
Many people who do "evil" things do them just because they're too weak and freak out and need to carry themselves to safety no matter the cost. And this means, no matter if they have to stab anyone in the back.
That's why lifewise it is a good idea to avoid people who are too weak.
>>120546034 >Implying she's anywhere near as selfish or emotionally needy as Homura And she was genuinely altruistic you fucking faggot, she honestly wanted what was best for Madoka and Sayaka, unlike Homura who was just a prissy cunt who couldn't get over her first crush and couldn't give less of a shit about anyone outside of her twisted obsession with a generic moeblob.
>>120546337 Implying that wasn't the point. Homura is supposed to come out as morally ambiguous in the beginning, then we see that she was the only good one in the sea of shit.
>>120546295 I don't think she was, anon. But the fact that Homura is so devoted to her feelings, even if it's something small from the other's point of view, works in her favor and is one of the things she and not any other Maguca is my love and my role model.
>>120546513 Being so autistically obsessed with a dime-a-dozen mahou shoujo protag that she would stalk her through space and time just to satisfy her emotional neediness and unwavering victim complex makes her a role model? That's total crap. Of course it worked out in some way by the end of it, but that's not the point. She is not, and never was a respectable person. Just a broken hearted homo who couldn't move on with her life until her friend, who will only ever be just a friend, literally became a god and told her in the nicest way possible to get the fuck over it. And she couldn't even do that.
>>120546337 Homura is pure evil and Madoka utterly despises her for ruining everything. A random witch familiar is worth infinitely more than the shit Homura. Sayaka is the true hero and Madoka's true special friend.
>>120547428 She spent over 100 years in timeloops trying to save the girl only to have her efforts be ultimately wasted and her to go someplace where Homura could not save her no matter what she did. Of course this would have a bad effect on her mental state. You shouldn't approach her decisions from the perspective or a rational person.
>>120547584 I don't think you get it. No matter how many times she does that it would not change the fact that Mami cannot take it that they are souless vessel that will become witches. That is why she killed her friend the first time she found out.
>>120547810 No, Mami and Kyouko were the only ones left alive at the end of the movie. Unless you're referring to her death in the series, then I suggest you may need to rewatch the series. Specifically the ending where they went to an entirely different universe where Madoka was no longer ever a girl at their school and Homura, Mami, Kyouko, and Sayaka were Mahou Shoujo fighting wraiths when Sayaka died again, leaving only Homura, Mami, and Kyouko left alive in the set up for the movie
The "heroic spirit being summoned by the grail" you're thinking of were Nagisa and Sayaka.
>>120547447 Because she COULDN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. Also in Rebellion Homura says it felt way too cruel to tell her. I mean, Homura makes Madoka cry telling her the cold truth multiple times, but telling Mami feels too cruel? Mami breakdowns must be soul destroying.
>>120544500 Art materials for her barrier, I think. Her mother was sick and Kyubey came up to her and asked her to make a contract. She wished for the cake that her mother liked so that she could eat it with her one last time, afterwards, Kyubey asked her why she didn't just wish for her mother to become healthy again and she insta-witched. top kek
>>120547895 >Mami breakdowns must be soul destroying. Well, yeah. She dedicated her entire life to fighting witches and familiars in an attempt to make amends for making a brash decision and being unable to save her parents to deal with her survivor's guilt thinking maybe she was doing some good in the world and discovers everything she's done has been a lie propagating only more suffering and pain? Saving people as a mahou shoujo was all she had left, she doesn't have a family or even have time for friends anymore. The closest thing to a friend that she thought she had, she learns has been lying to her and using her and that she didn't prevent the only friends she does have, Madoka/Sayaka, from becoming part of the cycle of suffering as well. It would be pretty soul crushing, to say the least.
>>120548433 Homura is not a person and shouldn't be mentioned with them. She's scum that belongs in hell.
>>120547428 She was always bad. You just fidn't realize it because her episode's perspective deceived you and made you think she was pathetically heroic, when the reality was she was full of hate and jealousy and only wanted posession of Madoka's soul. She was happy to ruin everything and make the people she hates suffer.
>"Nagisa, you wished for a delicious cake with which to share with your mother." >"Uh huh! It'll be nice to remember her by." >"Why not simply wish for your mother to be healthy and happy again? Surely you could have bought a cake in celebration rather than remembrance." >"Uh.....um....." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YByj8YgVLYw
>>120547895 They absolutely are. A strong point that is made in no uncertain terms throughout the series is that despite being powerful magical warriors, they are still young girls. Nothing is going to change that, and no matter how powerful they get they are still weak and emotionally fragile underneath the respective fronts they put up. Sayaka and Kyoko both try to act tough and noncommittal, Madoka tries to act upbeat and optimistic, Homura tries to act cold and distanced. It's especially jarring with Mami because she's the kind, motherly woman you can always expect to rest your head on and hear words of warmth and encouragement. You feel safe and confident when she's around because she's just the kind of person you can always put your faith in. Finding out that it too is largely a mask for her pain and seeing such a strong woman break down in uncertainty and fear is disturbing and heartbreaking.
>>120548725 >And that's the truth behind her "altruism". But it's still altruism. She chooses to help others because she failed to save those closest to her, dedicating herself to it entirely to the point that it's all she has left. It's not as if it really was the only thing she had, she could have easily just done enough to cleanse her soul gem like many others and go on having a relatively normal life of going out with friends and occasionally fighting a witch here or there, but she chose to completely dedicate herself to it thinking she was doing some good and protecting those who have no means to protect themselves.
>>120548841 That's actually more or less true, Homuhater. Thorough the years she had to regress her empathy to the point of non-existence, otherwise she would have broken down and failed. As a result she doesn't really care about anyone except Madoka and she's antisocial. Notice how she behaves in rebellion after she regains her memories for the first time and stops being Moemura. She's clearly faking to get along with the others while not really caring about all that social interaction.
Perhaps knee-shooting scene reflects that the best. She clearly doesn't like the idea of shooting defenseless Mami, who once used to be her comrade, however she forces herself to do so anyway because the situation calls for it. Imagine that psychologically, she has been doing more or less the same for every one of her 100 timeloops.
>>120548972 Yes, she deserves to be abandoned by Madoka, who never loved her, and burn in hell. She should have been sent to hell in the first timeline.
>>120548990 She hates Madoka too, to her she's not even a person but just a thing to possess for self satisfaction. It was always only about herself finding a purpose and becoming happy even though she herself is a monster.
>>120549001 She was crying for Madoka because she loves her. And at that point she was at the verge of breaking down, fatigued by her 12 years of time looping.
Love for a single person is not the same as empathy or big-heartness for everyone.
>>120548936 Now then, I guess that it comes down to the question of whether being altruistic is based on one's "actions" or "motivations". To complicate it further, we have to question really how altruistic these actions of Mami have been in reality. Notice that while she tries to appear as good as possible to Madoka and Sayaka, whom she considers her kouhai, she is a total bitch to Homu whom she views as an equal and therefore a rival.
I think that Mami tired her best to appear altruistic and selfless to herself and the others, but deep inside she was arrogant and selfish at heart. It's not hard to imagine that self-sacrifice for the "greater good" can be grounded in vanity and self-love.
>>120549124 Agreed.. She had a very strong heart, and a strong will. One thing she didn't become desensitized toward was her love to Madoka.
>>120549074 >It was always only about herself finding a purpose and becoming happy
Wrong. She rejected happiness to fulfill her goals. That's a quality of Overman.
>>120549168 The only reason she didn't was because Madoka would hate her even more if she did. Didn't you see her regretin having to hold back? Mami should have killed her and let Sayaka kill the witch.
>>120549200 Wrong. She rejected everyone's happiness to secure her own. Having control over the universe and being able to torment Madoka mentally, spiritually and sexually is her happiness, while everyone else is a soulless husk. She gave up nothing because nobody ever loved her.
>>120549200 >Notice that while she tries to appear as good as possible to Madoka and Sayaka, whom she considers her kouhai Because she's caring and wants to set a good example, not wanting to have people younger than her shoulder a burden of having to worry about her. This is pretty normal, you aren't a bitch to people you care about.
>she is a total bitch to Homu whom she views as an equal and therefore a rival. Because she meets her as she's trying to kill Kyuubey for which she gives absolutely no explanation and continues to follow them around and rejects any olive branch extended to her. Mami is a bitch to her because she insists on not explaining herself and acting hostile towards people she cares about for no apparent justification. You'd probably act the same way if you met someone as they were trying to kill a friend of yours and acting seemingly hostile towards someone who saved said friend who later became your kouhai, and continued to follow you around insisting you were doing something terrible and wouldn't engage in a dialogue with you about anything and continually shot down any friendly gestures you made toward them.
The devoted friend was a obsessed and selfish psychopath the entire time and you never saw it that way because the story was mostly from her perspective. It's the perfect deconstruction, Rebellion is a masterpiece.
Were you even watching the same anime? The was trying so hard to push Madoka and Sayaka into joining her so should wouldn't be alone anymore despite the obvious potential risks. They didn't even have wishes they really needed to make happen. Altruism is pure selflessness and Mami certainly had personal motivations for her actions. You can say anything else about her but denying that is ignorance.
>>120549200 >Love for a single person is not the same as empathy or big-heartness for everyone. No one was claiming that, though. That said, at least in the series she cared more than you might be letting off. Her attitude at the end of episode 9 toward Kyouko isn't something you could classify as cold.
As for the altruism thing, I'm someone who believes ultimately everything is selfish in some measure so that discussion is pointless.
>>120549615 You could also argue that altruism is acting in a self detrimental manner for someone else even if the motivations are selfish. Like the classic soldier jumping on a grenade, even if he feared he'd be unable to live with himself due to guilt, his action is largely self detrimental and beneficiary to others.
Mami's actions are not even close to either definition.
>>120549455 Apparently you weren't watching the anime either. You make her sound as if she pressures them into contracting as soon as possible when that's hardly the case at all.
She may not be altruistic but she damn sure as hell wasn't so broken to the point that she'll needlessly endanger people like Sayaka and Madoka. She shows them that being a Magical Girl isn't all love and daisies and even warns against Sayaka's potential wish, giving helpful advice.
>>120549813 Wrong. Madoka was never her friend like Homura demanded she be, and the repetitions were because she lacked love and empathy to save anyone. She was always evil and obsessed with making Madoka hers for her own sake that she failed every attempt because she never tried. The Incubators simply showed everyone the person she always was.
>>120548725 Alright, let me address some of your points now.
>later she became emotionality independent And then you go on to admit >Homura decided that she loves Madoka and wants her happiness and wants her for herself, even if Madoka doesn't reciprocate her feelings So she cannot possibly live her life without this girl, to the point that she does all this space time bullshit to be with her. That is so far the opposite of emotionally independent that it could easily serve as the most hyperbolic example. That is Shinji Ikari levels of pathetic. Actually even Shinji is less pathetic than Homura since his love interests actually returned his feelings, even if it was in their own emotionally broken way. Which brings me to victim complex. "Waaahhhhh, I'm so sad, I'm going to use the shitty situation I put myself in as an excuse for being a cold, irrational asshole. Why won't Madoka love me?" I don't give a damn how super sad her life story is. She's there because she put herself there, and became a nihilistic, borderline psychotic dickhead as a result. And she really can't figure out why Madoka will never love her? Not only is she weak, she's also dense as fuck. >>120548820 >That's not an act If it wasn't she wouldn't be doing all this shit in the first fucking place. Do you not know what "cold and distanced" means?
>>120550130 Your clear bias against Homura aside, I do agree with a good part of your post but this? >"Waaahhhhh, I'm so sad, I'm going to use the shitty situation I put myself in as an excuse for being a cold, irrational asshole. Why won't Madoka love me?" This is pretty ridiculous. Homura has issues, but she doesn't have a victim complex. That would imply attributing her failures to events outside her control while what happens is pretty much the opposite, she blames herself too much. And using the situation as an excuse to be an asshole? I don't see how adopting a cold persona doesn't naturally follow from what she went through, really.
>>120550496 She was always a piece of shit, and she got worse over time as she blamed ithers for her own failures. Madoka doesn't give a shit about her and Homura throws a fit about it. If Homura had been killed like she should have nobody would have suffered. >she blames herself to much She fucking curses everyone for getting in her way because she's a loveless psychopath. She thinks she's god and should have the world given to her, and that was what her wish was all about in the first place. You just got tricked by her fake moe.
>>120550740 Listen here, dipshit, what Homura became was what she always was, a wretched monster that nobody ever loved who hated the world and wanted everything for herself. Madoka will never love her or be her friend and will be happy to murder her to be rid of her. You can make up your headcanons about how tragic she is but the truth will stay the same.
>>120550229 There's almost no new material. A lot of the QUALITY was cleaned up, but it's not worth a rewatch if the show is sitll fresh in your mind.
The two things the recap movies did was put a very surreal and artsy transition between Episode 9 and 10 which looks cool but is ultimately meaningless, and have a really good OP which was twisted into a visual metaphor for Rebellion. It's not hugely important, but it's a really nice fan nod.
>>120543955 She's the worst magical girl either way, she was supposed to be the mentor type character and then she gets taken out by one fucking surprise attack. Very anticlimactic character, and if she just let Homu-chan help her instead of being a bitch she wouldn't have died.
But even then it also doesn't make sense how Homura even got tied up in the first place, because she knew what Mami's magic was.
Maybe I'm just overthinking it, it also doesn't make sense how Kyouko knew what that super-witch was. Like is there a magical girl database or someshit where they can look up witches?? It's also extremely idiotic how Homura was unable to prevent the characters from dying when she knew literally everything that would happen.
>>120550915 She also didn't stop them. If she really put their safety over her own desire, or if she valued it at all, she wouldn't have allowed them to come with her. They were empty words, something that is just expected to be said rather than someone's actual feelings.
Though I agree some of the blame is with madoka and sayaka for going with her. They could have just as easily waited outside for her to return smh.
>>120549455 >Altrusim: Unselfish concern for the welfare of others >Mami was never altruistic Are you kidding? What the hell do you think was she doing this whole fucking time before meeting the girls? Eating cake and crying because she was alone like some fanart might made you think? No. She worked her fucking ass off every day of her life trying to help the people of the city, being the only one who was able to do it in the whole Mitakihara and depriving herself from everything she wished to do as a normal girl her age. She put her life on the line over and over again more often than any magical girl just to save one more person. Do you think she would have gave a single fuck if she had died performing her task? Of course not. And Mami only tried to convince the girls, while warning them over and over again, after Kyubey told her first about them having potential, not because of her own initiative. Was she excited about it? Yes, but she never forced them to do anything. The girls could have easily refused the crazy tea chick and by on their way. Getting rid of Kyubey would be a whole different deal.
>>120550993 >gets taken out by one fucking surprise attack So you utterly failed to understand what were the consecuences of the scene previous to that one,
>if she just let Homu-chan help her instead of being a bitch she wouldn't have died Great, more retarded people.
Why would anyone distrust a person who attempted to kill your only friend, literally stalks you from the shadows, refuses any friendly or at least neutral approach, tries to stop you from getting close to the only people you can get close to, comes out of nowhere and attemps to steal your job. All of this, without giving a single fucking reason for anything. Sure, Mami was such a fucking bitch for no reason.
>>120544686 >has a mental breakdown and kills best girl
That explains it. Kyoukofags still being butthurt about it is always amusing to see.
From all the fanart I saw of Mami with no head I was expecting it to be revealed that her wish was for immortality or something and she'd come back as a headless horseman type thing, especially after the part where Kyubey said that they're pretty much invincible if their soul gems stay intact.
>>120553707 Mami lectured Homura in the second timeline, seemingly with some help from Madoka. Despite this these two did not seem to grow close. On the third Homura's ranking of the other magical girls seemed to be: Madoka >>>>>>> Mami >>> literally who > Sayaka = Kyouko
>>120554492 You're supposed to, she ruined everything because Madoka never loved her. She has no character besides flaws and passionate wrath towards others. She deserves to burn in hell completely abandoned by Madoka.
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