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You are currently reading a thread in /a/ - Anime & Manga

Thread replies: 198
Thread images: 32
hello /a/
>>
hola Hayao-chan
>>
>>120408839
The subs aren't wrong.
>>
Why did he say that? Isn't he one of the most recognized faces in the anime industry?
>>
>>120408839
Sup Jii-san.
>>
>>120408839
I guess he maintains the high ground by making Japanese Cartoons.
>>
>>120409632
He's a bitter old fuck, and like most bitter old fucks he has a a "back in my day" mentality. He's basically just mad because when he was young anime was a super sekrit club and now its mainstream.
>>
>>120409798
>He's basically just mad because when he was young anime was a super sekrit club

Anime is and never was a super sekrit club.
>>
hello reportbutton
>>
>>120409798
>He's basically just mad because when he was young anime was a super sekrit club and now its mainstream.
He's not mad that it's mainstream, he's mad that the industry's pigeonholed itself into making pandering wish-fulfilment garbage for otaku.
>>
>>120409922

whatever. While I do want to see more stuff out of the anime scene I don't want Miyazaki's final plea for change make the studios turn into try-hards or something.
>>
>>120409984
Dude with the way things are now, studios would be so fucking far from try hards by at least making content two times better than now.
>>
He's the hero anime needs but doesn't deserve
>>
>>120409816
>Anime is and never was a super sekrit club.
What?
>>
>>120409984
He doesn't want all chinese cartoons to be tryhard shit either, he's just fed up of haremshit etc written by people who don't understand how social interaction works.
>>
>>120409632
he didn't
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>>120408839
OP is a mistake. He's nothing but a dick sucking faggot.
>>
I understand his frustration, but I wouldn't say it's reasonable to say anime was a mistake. Someone's gotta reclaim anime though. It's really hard to claim that the otaku-pandering isn't a problem. Every other show is about lesbian lolis or a variation on some sort of girl-raising game. Sometimes we get manga/VN adaptations, but even those don't take any risks.

>>120410219
It was in the west, but that doesn't count because that's not where anime is from.
>>
>>120410324
I googled "anime was a mistake" hard but couldn't find it to be his word. Is that a meme or something?
>>
Every show is selling poorly this season except for KanColle. Anime is dead and your favorite shows didn't save it.

Wrap it up, animailures.
>>
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>>120408839
>Hayao hates nowaday anime
>Anime produce Otaku to support it's industry
>Anno is the one make Otaku culture spread
>Anno was rised by Hayao
>>
>People are actually takeing this shitty meme seriously
>>
>>120410478
>Is that a meme or something?

Yes
>>
Anime is in a pretty shitty state though, couple oddball shows a year don't change this. I mean, people in this thread are throwing around stupid shit like 'try-hard' when talking about creators having any ambition or vision. Without them, all one can make is superficial garbage and Miyazaki's outburst is proven right.
>>
>>120410490
Sales are just icing on the cake. Anime is on TV in Japan. Nobody ever posts Neil-san ratings.
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Anime was not the mistake. Otaku was the mistake.
>>
>>120410624
I don't see how Ghibli is anything at all like Disney.
>>
>>120410624

Kill yourself
>>
Why do you hate Miyazaki, /a/? It's like hating your parents because they're correcting your mistakes.
>>
>>120410695
They are very much like Disney shows. They both do family entertainment.
>>
>>120410742
I like my parents but they're clueless
>>
>>120410624
I think to a certain extent you're fulla shit, pal

So's Miyazaki

If it's good enough for Tezuka it's good enough for his prissy lukewarm ovaltine drinking old man ass

I don't even like Anno but if the two of them were in a knife fight on the street I'd back Anno up
>>
>>120410742
Hating Miyazaki has been cool ever since Spirited Away gave Ghibli more exposure. Due to the logic of internet meme shitposting, every movie and show Miyazaki has ever worked on is now irredeemable shit and you're a [insert current trendy insult] for liking them.
>>
>>120410751
Pretty much this, they havent been comparable to "anime" since the early 90's.
>>
>>120408839
who cares about the opinion of some random geezer?
>>
>he's smoking

No surprise, he's cancer.
>>
>>120410490
Anime aren't made to sell BD anymore. They're made to sell merchandise.
>>
>>120410751
You're just confused because you clearly watch Ghibli films with english dubs.
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>>120410616

>neil-san ratings
>>
>>120410854
Ghibli is for everyone.
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>>120410818
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>>120408839

Anime used to be art, but now its a just a corpse getting fucked endlessly for money. Disgusting that after all these years, very few works can be considered works of art that are on par with the West.

I'm glad anime is dying.
>>
>>120410742
Because his boring naturalistic shit got stale 2 decades ago.
I'd rather watch some mecha trainwreck.
>>
>>120410915
Fucking hell, anon, posting this image always causes shitstorms and you know it.
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>>120410915
>KLK
>>
>>120410915
"quality" is just the result of throwing a lot of shit
the bigger the pile you throw the bigger the chance you get nice shit
anime is currently a relatively small pile of shit
>>
>>120410915
It isn't dying it's just going through an otaku dark age
>>
>>120410915
>cinema
>film
Oh /tv/.
>>
>>120410915
baitimage.jpg
Not even worth the effort to go find one.
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>>120410943
But most shit you watch these days got stale decades ago. And you still watch them.
>>
>>120409798
so.... he is the /a/ncient?
>>
>>120410995

If you don't know the difference between film and cinema you have no fucking right to reply to me you pleb. Watching animes dulled your artistic senses you wouldn't know a Cinematic experience even if it fell on you.
>>
That's easy for him to say.
Being able to do whatever the fuck you want.
Nice Ivory Tower criticism, grandpa.
>>
>>120410186
Fuckin' this.
>>
>>120411134

it might be Ivory Tower criticism but he's perfectly right. Most anime today are just fanservice / harem, slice of life or shounen shit. There are a few gems like Shirobako, Amagi Brilliant Park and Ping Pong, but they don't get the recognition they deserve.
>>
>>120411128
It's the same fucking shit.
>>
>>120411134
He's at the top of the tower for a reason, pleb
>>
>>120411128
so what you're trying to tell me is they're all the same
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>>120409984
>whatever
I accept your concession, anon

>>120410491
>this is what /v/ actually believes
>>
>>120411185
>but they don't get the recognition they deserve.
More like they don't get the funding they deserve. Hardly matters though since there aren't even any animators left in Japan.
>>
Miyazaki is a pretty interesting person. He's seen a lot of things and tells pretty interesting stories, both in person and via anime.

Also, it's not unusual for artists to think that their craft is shit. It's a part of that tortured artist character.
>>
>>120411128
go away /tv/
>>
>>120411185
>Amagi Brilliant Park
>good
pick one
>>
>>120411185
>few gems like Shirobako, Amagi Brilliant
Top kek.
>>
>>120411294
I agree. ABP isn't good, it's GRRREAT
>>
>>120411185
>No fanservice
>Shirobako
>Amagi
>>
>>120408839
OP is trolling for free
>>
>>120411227
Yeah, he managed to make films that have broad appeal while having decent to great visual qualities.
That doesn't give him the right to imply that, like, all other anime is shit.
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>>120411309
I love you anon.
>>
>>120411374
>getting butthurt over someone calling anime shit
>it's miyazaki of all people
c'mon anon
>>
>>120408839
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wApAEg0ErgE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLjT89nANvU
But Kino no tabi, haibane renmei, Boogiepop and Lain was greatest anime ever.
>>
>>120408839
I like big butts and I cannot lie
~Hayao Miyazaki.
>>
>>120409922
You mean like every other industry in existence? He's been saying this shit since the 80's you know. And there has never been a point in time where anime wasn't pandering to otaku. In the 70's and 80's it pandered to mecha otaku.
>>
>>120410384
>Every other show is about lesbian lolis
I wish.
>>
I'm laughing hard at the "oldfags" in this thread. Take it from someone who has been watching anime since the 80's, there is a lot more good shit now then back then. People bitch now about moeshit and haremshit, and pretend the previous decades were some golden age of diversity. You faggots do know that 1 out of every 3 anime back in the old days was a mecha, they pandered way harder then than they do now. In fact because there is so much anime now there is a shitton of variety and creativity every season.

50+ anime a season with only 3-4 of them being harems and people bitch about over saturation, imagine in the 80's when there was 15 anime a season and 5+ were mecha
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>>120411521
I'm not really butthurt, it just seems so arrogant to me.
>>
I wish people would take off their nostalgia goggles. The only reason you faggots think anime was great back then and shit now is because you only remember the handful of great anime in the sea of shit. Just like in 10 years from now people will be screaming "the 00's were a golden age for anime! Not like all the shit we have now!"
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>>120411778
The quote is somewhat out of context. He was saying that a lot of modern anime is created by people who don't understand real social interaction, and movement and only know anime thus create shit characters, dialogue and animation
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>>120410915
>Kill La Kill

I fucking bursted out laughing, thanks m8
>>
>>120411838
>the 00's were a golden age for anime! Not like all the shit we have now!
No one will ever say that
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>>120410818
The light of zvezda something something !
No smoking !
>>
>>120411852
So what? Do you need to be a good person to be able to write?
>>
>>120411874
You want to bet?
>>
>>120411308
Shirobako is pretty entertaining. Not maybe gem-type of entertaining, but entertaining.
>>
>>120411874
Try to google old posts from forums in the 90s. You will see pretty much what you see here "anime sucks, 80's were perfect"
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>>120408839
>"It's difficult. [My female protagonists] immediately become the subjects of rorikon gokko (play toy for Lolita Complex males). In a sense, if we want to depict someone who is affirmative to us, we have no choice but to make them as lovely as possible. But now, there are too many people who shamelessly depict [such protagonists] as if they just want [such girls] as pets, and things are escalating more and more."

> —Hayao Miyazaki, 1988 interview with Animage
>>
>>120411910
You have to at least be able to understand human interaction
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>>120411528
Yeah but those are from pre-10's, we need the Haibane Renmei, Lain, Kino no Tabi of our times and it seems like it'll be impossible with the way things are going.
>>
you are not complaining about anime, or otaku. you are complaining about capitalism.
>>
>>120411998
someone needs to make a Doom Miyazaki pic
>>
>>120412005
K dude, that's why every writer is such an amazing person and not just a fucking shut in nerd.
>>
Why miyazaki critices so much the otaku, when he himself is a lolicon
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>>120412069
He's mad his son is fucking shit so he's blaming the generation
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>>120411739
Please, your shitton of creativity and variaton is just different takes on the trashy harems, idols, shonenshit, mecha, etc. Back in the days sure we had pandering shit like today but it still had a few well written gems every year. Now it's just huge piles of garbage with a gem once every year.
>>
>>120411910
No, you need to have experiences and perspectives in order to write well. It's no coincidence that often, the really good writers tend to be either batshit insane or gone through some batshit insane stuffs or both. If you lack the experiences or perspectives, you have a really limited pool of ideas to draw from.
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>>120412120
You're partiallly right, but there's also a lot of writers that were away from society and shunned from it.
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>>120412120
Nah, dude, that's just the way the stupid people see it because everybody talks about writers as "rock stars". The reality is that artists are all fucking shut ins that lived their life either drugged and fucking whores in their house or shutting in and practicing their skill. What you need to do in order to write a good story is to study writing, and practice.
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>>120411998
>1988
Why didn't they listen?
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>>120412188
Because not a lot of people are so insecure they can't let the others enjoy whatever they like?
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>>120410915
please name a single western cartoon that is "a work of art"
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>>120412228
>The iron giant
>>
>>120412228
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMsyOowMaEY
>>
>>120412228
>falling for it
How stupid are you?
>>
>>120412201
What is this? Redditors?
>>
>>120412216
If UP was about a Loli and some warrior dude you'd be fapping over it every day you fucking fag
>>
>>120411322
Fanservice by itself isn't the problem, anon.

It's when a show is reduced to 90% of the time fanservice/sexual innuendoes and nothing else that it becomes cancerous.
>>
>>120412183
>>120412174
Please re-read my post
>have experiences AND perspectives
>tend to be EITHER batshit insane OR gone through some batshit insane stuffs OR both
They don't contradict with your posts. At all.

>all fucking shut ins
Nope, a significant number of them are shut ins. Not all. They all shun society, but in different ways. Some shun by being shut ins, some rebel by doing controversial things.

>is to study writing, and practice
Similarly, this doesn't contradict, it's more of a complement.
>>
>>120412312
That's the janny IRC. So yes.
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>>120412067
Good writers are at least able to observe how people behave
>amazing person
really? Going outside and observing or interacting with others qualifies as being amazing now?
>>
>>120412314
was for
>>120412228
>>
>>120412314
>If UP was about a Loli
great
>and some warrior dude
wat?
>>
>>120412093

Yeah man, great written gems like "MD Geist, Metal Skin Panic Madox, and Genocyber." You people didn't just love mecha, you loved violence and Action like the fucking Commando or Hard Target.

They were Action Otaku.
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>>120412348
Oh wow.
>>
>>120412093
Everything is based off tropes. There hasn't been an original thing written in literally hundreds of years in any media, stop pretending please. Also you have it backward, now we are guaranteed at least 1-2 great shows a year whereas in the old days it was 1 great anime every few years.
>>
>>120412369
Nobody wants to self insert a fucking old guy, just put a warrior dude katanagatari style.
>>
I'm going to save anime!
>>
>>120408839
90% of everything is shit, you need to embrace it and learn how to dig through the shit to find the good stuff.
>>
>>120412440
Can you stop being deluded or are you just lying? Just in 2014 there was only Ping Pong worth mentioning and it was an 8~9/10 at best.
>>
>>120408839

The same guy that was dickriding Tezuka? Oh, that irony.
>>
>>120411185
Amagi was a typical fanservice anime.
After Free sucked all the money from fujoshi, Kyoani tried to find another way to suck money from otaku but failed.
>>
>>120412485
Unless you have money to invest in some project you can have full control, you'll never even get a job in the anime industry if you're a dirty gaijin.
>>
>>120412620
tezka's animes are crap, so no probs there
only his comic books are alright
>>
>>120412637

Tell that to the Brazilian guy who made No Game, No Life.

>inb4 He's half-Jap!!!
>>
>>120412668
>animes
>>
>>120412668

That's not my point. His work is inspiring as fuck, sure. But this guy had a furry fetish and possibly a shota fetish as proof from MW and Astro Boy.
>>
>>120412680
Brazil is an exception. I didn't look much into it, but it was brought up during the WC how both countries view each other very positively. Smme history is involved, look it up.

Also he's half-jap.
>>
>>120411627
No, it pandered to children. Animes audience has since changed to pander to the debatched fantasies of those children, now grown-up.

Children's shows that aren't toy commercials or fighting anime are a real rarity now. Even the 70s which it had it's fair share of toy commercials still had stuff like the WMTs and others. I feel bad for kids these days.
>>
>>120412547
>Ping Pong

Oh I see the problem, you are judging based on your shit taste. I was trying to apply an objective standard. A masterpiece as in any work of art that leaves an impact and significantly changes the medium it's published in. But your apparently just going by "I like this show so it must be a masterpiece", carry on then
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>>120412742
those are some high tier fetishes popular amongst patricians

so your point still eludes me
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>>120412485
>>
>>120411975
That's true. 90s anime, by and large, sucked.
>>
>>120412794
>A masterpiece as in any work of art that leaves an impact and significantly changes the medium it's published in.

If you think that's the definition of a masterpiece then I guess Dragon Ball, One Piece, Naruto and Bleach are all masterpieces.
>>
>>120412637
That's the plan. Work on becoming rich for the next 30 years, then when I'm 50 or so save anime.
>>
>>120412797

The point is that if, despite OP's pic being a troll, he did say that, his inspiration or mentor is the OG of pandering.
>>
>>120412839
>30 years later
>traditional anime no longer exists
>AR and VR completely control the market
>2D animation doesn't exist

Good luck.
>>
>>120408839

A bitter, dried up old man who, like most old men, doesn't realize his time has passed and needs to hurry up and die.
>>
>>120412797

>those are some high tier fetishes popular amongst patricians
>furry

Who am I to judge anyway
>>
>>120410186
This anon gets it.
>>
>>120412872
>being this mad
>>
>>120412836
None of those 4 changed the medium significantly, they were just heavy hitters and sold so well it caused more of that type of anime to be made.

Something selling well doesn't mean it pushed the boundaries.
>>
>>120412836
Dragonball and One Piece are, whether you or /a/ agrees or not, in fact masterpieces because they warped an entire genre around them. Every shounen fantasy / action manga draws on elements from Dragon Ball and One Piece. I personally hate One Piece, but that doesn't change its impact on the medium as a whole. Naruto didn't contribute anything to the medium, it was just a popular show riding on the coattails of Dragonball and One Piece
>>
>>120412872

>needs to hurry up and die

Why? Because that statement holds truth? Can't kill a fact.
>>
Miya-san is right. He's also right about gun otaku being the lowest of the low.
>>
>>120412910
>they were just heavy hitters and sold so well it caused more of that type of anime to be made

Except that's exactly what changing the medium means. They were all highly influential and introduced a lot of new anime fans.

Calling something a masterpiece is elitist by nature, and the way I see it, it's usually niche and closer to 'high art'. Ping Pong was an excellent example by that anon.
>>
>>120412908

Age-addled delusionals who think they can still dictate taste and morality to a world that has long since left them in the dust do annoy me, yes.
>>
>>120412898
Really? I agree with some of Miyazaki's points, but in the end, I just feel like he wants more of the stuff in the industry that he likes rather than what's better for anime as a medium itself.
>>
>>120413015
Being forced to pander to otaku isn't good for the longevity of the medium or its image.
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>>120412485
>>120412799
What ever happened to him
>>
does japan have any good non-anime directors?

if yes, they should see if they want to try an anime
>>
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>>120410915
>Cinema
>Film
>>
>>120413110
If you haven't realized yet, majority of art in general exists solely to pander to whatever is demanded for the sake of profits. The best example is Hollywood of course where all the big money lies. Majority of the blockbusters are so formulaic it hurts.
>>
>>120408839
If his movies were animated by DEEN, no one would care about them
>>
>>120413186
Who's that? He looks like a big guy.
>>
>>120413168
nah, japan can only into anime
every novel they write gets turned into an anime
>>
>>120412988

Yeah, I don't think people has left Miyazaki yet and I have yet see somone usurp him. Maybe Satoshi Kon, but you know. Maybe Makoto Shinkai.
>>
>>120413263
"hard-boiled wonderland and the end of the world" anime when
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All smokers have rotten opinions, Not surprising this bastard has the hump with the anime considering he uses the same thing for all his movies.
>>
>>120412872
Says a man who is too stupid to watch anything more complicated than anime with copied over and over same characters but with changed hairstyle.
>>
>>120413193
No, that's pretty self evident. I just don't see otaku as a sustainable market.
>>
>>120413263
Maybe because they still end up playing out the same shitty tropes?
>>
>>120413280

He has no post or position to "usurp" from him. He's just a guy who makes movies. He's not the Supreme Pontiff of Japanese Animation, although he certainly does think so himself.
>>
>>120412967
Oh wow, just kill yourself. You have no fucking idea what the word masterpiece means. Yes I won't deny that they are indeed influencial but hey because they pander specifically to a certain demographic, not because they are well written. I regret discussing the state of anime with a retard like you. Sorry for your autism, hope you will recover some day.
>>
>>120413351
If you're talking about the declining Japan's population, then you have a point. If not, explain further.
>>
>>120408839
>hello /a/
Hello bitter old man.
>>
>>120413301
>Not surprising this bastard has the hump with the anime considering he uses the same thing for all his movies.
His brain? Yeah, no wonder you don't like him, since you have no common ground with him.
>>
>>120413340

I've been watching anime for over 15 years. I've seen all the classics from every era of animation (including all of Ghibli's stuff), and have nothing to prove.

Doesn't change the fact he's an old man who's biter that the world as he knew it is gone and not coming back.
>>
>>120411998
>>
>>120413468
So? Doesn't also change that he's mostly right.
>>
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>>120411998
>1988
>>
>>120413364

I don't mean in terms of being "better" if that's what you're thinking. I want a Tezuka, Fujiko Fujio, or Miyazaki 2.0 not just by style or hype. I hate that the west is holding Miyazaki as a shining beacon but takes no inspiration to do something. They worship like Jesus Christ ir something. I sometimes wonder if Cartoons can be saved.
>>
I absolutely love how butthurt he makes /a/ because he calls their copypasted vomit out for what it is.
Half the people in this threads are so fucking mad they can't even type properly anymore.
>>
>>120413554

Right that most of it is trash? Of course it is. Most of everything is. But he has no authority to decide for the world that anime as an entire medium was a "mistake". His arrogance in thinking he does is colossal.
>>
>>120413686
That, I agree with. He may have gone overboard with those words but he has a point nonetheless. Besides how can he call anime a mistake when we got masterpieces like Haibane Renmei?
>>
Miya-san has such a calm attitude towards the future even though he knows it'll be shit.
>>
>>120413686
>But he has no authority to decide for the world that anime as an entire medium was a "mistake". His arrogance in thinking he does is colossal.
Who has the authority to decide for the world then? Do you? Because you seem quite adamant to decide for the world that he is wrong.
>>
>>120413468
I would be too. It was a better world, at least media wise.
>>
>>120413398
I am.
>>
only trash otaku get buttblasted my miyazaki
>>
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>>120413791

I decide for ME that it is wrong, which is all I need to do to invalidate his statement.

Anime was not a mistake because it's brought me many beautiful, thoughtful stories and has enriched my worldview in positive ways, and despite his claims has given me many strong, intelligent, kickass female characters who I esteem as far more than mere fetish fuel.

Anime was not a "mistake". This would be the case even if it was just true for me alone. But it isn't.
>>
>>120414054
Hideaki Anno, the inventor of anime
>>
>waaaaaaaaaaaaa why isn't every thing ugly rotoscoped shit like muh boring overrated films
>>
>>120413976
>Anime was not a "mistake".
And again, you are attempting to decide for the world that anime is not a mistake. You are doing the exact same thing you are faulting Miyazaki for doing. And if I need to choose between you and Miyazaki to decide this, I'd go for the one that has actually done something and not the one going "anime made my life better, kickass women".

I don't understand where you get the hubris to decide that your personal assessment of anime gives you the right to invalidate Miyazaki's opinion.
>>
>>120408839
>all my life's work was a mistake

okay. i'll just be sitting here, waiting for you to donate your fortune to charity
>>
>>120414221
What good would that do?
>>
>>120414263
if he donates to charities of mental health organizations, it will help alleviate some of the terrorism he and his ilk have wrought on the minds of susceptible youths
>>
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>>120414162

I don't understand where you get the hubris to "choose between" me or him. You're making the same error he did, speaking for other people. I don't speak for anyone but myself. You can call that "hubris" all you want, but at least it isn't presuming for others.

It's fine if you take his side. I'm really quite sanguine on the subject, because anime does and will exist. Let him continue to wither away on the wrong side of history if he likes. He's impotent to stop it, as are you.
>>
>>120412350
>>120410911
Does that butthurt guy do a lot of public spanking exhibitions?
>>
>>120409922

I agree with him in a way, the anime industry certainly needs to work on its presentation and writing, but that said, I think that Ghibli stuff is not really my cup of tea and the fact that Miyazaki acts like it's the pinnacle of the anime industry bothers me.
>>
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>>120412228
>>
>>120414391
>I don't understand where you get the hubris to "choose between" me or him.
Do you perhaps have trouble reading? I said "if I need to choose". It is a simple opinion of whose opinion I value the more.
>You're making the same error he did, speaking for other people.
Who am I speaking for in this case? Also, how noble of you not to include yourself in this list, despite the fact that you have been doing that from the beginning.
>I don't speak for anyone but myself.
Except by saying that Miyazaki's opinion is deciding for the world and then saying he is wrong, you are deciding for the world his opposite point. How can "anime was a mistake" decide it for the world but "anime is not a mistake" not?
>Let him continue to wither away on the wrong side of history if he likes.
And now you are deciding the history for the world as well. Congratulations.
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>>120414939
>And now you are deciding the history for the world as well.

It decided on its own without his, my, or your input. That's the whole point. I don't have to decide for the world. It already did. I just have to decide for me, and that's all it takes to overturn his statement.

Further discussion would seem to be pretty unfruitful at this point, so I'll leave it here.
>>
>>120415213
>It already did.
This is not an universal truth. It is your opinion.

>I just have to decide for me, and that's all it takes to overturn his statement.
It doesn't work like that. If a historian says "slavery was a mistake" and I say "no, slavery was not a mistake", it doesn't invalidate his opinion, which probably is more educated than mine. And that is exactly what you are doing, but for some reason, your hubris lets you think that you have the right to do so.

And yes, you should probably leave this here. Your ability to hold a rational conversation and process concepts logically are as bad as the images you post.
>>
Reminder that you are all arguing over a fake quote
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>>120414146
kids these days
>>
>>120411998
>1988
Laughing my ass off at this.
Thread replies: 198
Thread images: 32
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