>its bad because its famous in the west

>>120375207
I agree

>It's bad because the fanbase is annoying

>>120375234
this

>>120375207
It's bad because there's no real culmination to the almost nonexistent story, having developed characters is pointless if it doesn't impact the story in any manner. It's average with some cool episodes, nothing more.

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>its bad because a lot of people say its good

>>120375313
The story is not "nonexistent", in fact there are more than 20 of them, and most of them are quite good. Have you seriously never seen an episodic TV show before?

>>120375437
cowboy bepoop is fucking cancer that only entry level retards would ever waste time watching

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>>120375313
>nonexistent story

Have you ever read a good book? Are you able to pick up on subtleties.

You know, Hemingway thought that the deeper meaning of a story should not be spoon-fed, but should make itself implied.

I suggest going back and watching this series, without multitasking, or wanking off, between scenes. Actually take a minute to consider the plot, the motives of the characters. Why they act the way they do?

Come back when you understand.

I bet everyone in this thread hates big o too

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>>120375635
Why are you getting so worked up over anime anon?

>>120375635
Nice meme.

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>>120375635

>>120375207
No non-retard thinks this. The right method of thought is that if they're going on about how something that's famous in the west is objectively the best thing ever, they might not know much about anime. However, it's also possible that they do and still like that thing a lot.

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>>120375635
Here's your reply

>>120375675
>You know, Hemingway thought that the deeper meaning of a story should not be spoon-fed, but should make itself implied.

Much to the chagrin of many a whiny highschool English student.

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>>120375709
>generic giant robot crap except this time it looks like a western cartoon so its even more cancerous
Fucking cancerous entry level /v/tards need to leave

It's a mix of episodic with about 6 plot-critical episodes. What makes it good is that even the episodic episodes develop the characters in some permanent, tangible way, even if they don't push the central narrative along.

That's why it's better than something like Mushishi, which, while undoubtedly excellent episodically, doesn't really deliver much else (asides from a few recurring characters)

The only problem with Bebop is that people say it´s the best anime ever. Ohh and it has no story

>>120375902
>The only problem with Bebop is that people say it´s the best anime ever
>the problem with this anime is something that isnt related to it at all

>>120375854
Of course it looks like a western cartoon, anime is modeled off of western animation.

>>120375902
>>120375264

Honestly, the only thing that's really annoying is how in a show that's so distinctly western styled, yet done with delicious Japanese attention to detail in maintaining that style, we still have an "edgy" white haired nihilist antagonist with a katana.

>>120376127
I actually agree.
vicious stands out so fucking much.

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>>120375854

>it's bad because its socially acceptable

>>120375902
I think the thing about Bebop is that even if the overarching story is kind of lacking, the individual episodic storylines are absolutely spectacular.

>>120376127
Vicious really does seem out of place on the whole.

/v/ threads.

What I disliked the most about it is that it has anime fun time in one episode and then fun time with some dark undertones. And then you have some random plot important episodes in there, which only end up being picked up again in the last few episodes. Which are done well, especially when you see how everything breaks down and spike gets dragged back into the past.

It shows how sad anime is if Cowboy Bebop is considered the masterpiece.

>>120376403
The two worst kind of people on /a/ are the /v/ tards who go "wah wahh /a/ only discusses moeshit" and the retards who go "wahh i love me some Sol with shitty cookie cutter characters because its "comfy", fuck off with your entry level shit while i post some anime that is super acessible to any retard on japan"

>>120375313

The culmination is that Spike chooses to confront Vicious in revenge for the future he could not have with Julia.

Spike also rejects returning to his empty, aimless present when he leaves Jet. Their lives as wandering bounty hunters was a passing illusion he used to bury his grief.

Finally, Spike rejects any hope for a better future when he walks away from Faye in the last episode.

Where Spike struggled with a past he could not forget, Faye struggled with a past she could not remember. When Faye later discovered her past life she learned (in both a metaphorical and literal way) that there is no going back. Faye ultimately rejects the past in favor of the life she has made with the crew of the Bebop, only to have it slip through her fingers.

Ed and Jet endure in the present. Where Ed is innocent, Jet is disillusioned. Both accept the moment they live in, but with different outlooks.

>Cowboy Bebop is moot's favourite anime
>realize that Spike was also cuck'd by Julia
>moot was cuck'd by an SJW/Gawker/stalker-chan
>moot can relate to Spike because they are both cucks

This just hit me.

>>120376492
You put that all really well.

Once in a while you come across someone on /a/ (or more rarely, /v/) who can break down plots and characters into a really pleasing, digestible way - I wish I could do that.

The best thing about moot's departure has been the constant looping of Space Lion on /a/, and the resulting Bebop threads. Plebeian Watanabe haters can get fucked.

>>120375313
see>>120375769

bebop>dandy>champloo

I don't understand why people seem to either think Cowboy Bebop is cancer that killed anime and the worst thing of all time, or the second coming of Christ and the best work of fiction ever created. I always thought it was a solid entertaining show, no more and no less. Same for NGE.

>>120376559
It has been a while but didnt spike take julia from vicious.

>>120376492
Shit, I want to rewatch this show again.

>>120376710
Why did you even respond?

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>>120376643
Noooooooo way Dandy is better than Champloo

It is good but not great. The reason bebop gets so much shit here is because entry level faggots think of it as a work of art, when anyone who has watched more than a handful of anime know it is just good. So we pretend to hate it so entry level tards or /v/ tards who watched their first anime don't feel at home here right away.

>>120376705
Because bebop is very odd looking so it appeals to people who dont give much though about anime, which pisses off weeaboo faggots (you guys know what that word means, dont get butthurt)
NGE is a big deal in the industry, it also gets praised for being "deep" while having cross imagery so people who never watched it think its considered "deep" because of the imagery and disregard it as overrated

>>120376790
Nice projecting, i have seen some people on /a/ who legit hate bebop

>>120376705
Because it`s the best anime ever and no show will ever get to that level anymore, it sets the expectations very high. people are assmad that they don`t recognize the current moeshit as anything worthwhileand that that shit will never ever even get 1 percent of the greatness of bebop.

>>120376705
It´s either the best or the worst thing. Isn´t it always like that?

>>120376790
>Bobop isn´t art

>>120376710
Julia cuck'd him when Spike was injured. Spike was friends with Vicious before Julia cuck'd Spike. Vicious then figured out that Spike had an affair with Julia.

Spike and Julia ran away from the organization - going by what the show has shown us, they both ran away successfully although not together and Spike encountered members of the Syndicate. Some people would say that Spike didn't really make it out alive and the whole series was just his dream in the afterlife.

>>120376814
>>120376790
Both of these generalized views aren't relevant any more.

It's kind of a hard show to hate, though. I can see people being completely indifferent or cold towards it - I still don't see what's so amazing about it - but I can't immediately think of anything about it (other than the fanbase) that would actually piss people off to the point of antipathy towards it.

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>>120376492
thank you based anon

>>120376759
because im afraid I forgot how bepop ended.

>>120376879
>false flagging
how butthurt are you that people talked shit about your favorite Sol crap ITT?

>>120376879
>Because it`s the best anime ever and no show will ever get to that level anymore

Uh, if you want something like Bebop, just watch any of the Western shows and movies that influenced it.

>>120375207
I didn't like it because I felt it was trying too hard
>m-muh maturity
>muh subtlety
Fuck this anime

>>120376931
>Some people would say that Spike didn't really make it out alive and the whole series was just his dream in the afterlife.
why does every alternative interpretation of a show have to be that someone is dying and the whole thing is a dream before passing. The only way in how spike is dead is in how he didnt have anything to live for.

>>120376948
surprise, people arent that logical

>>120376998
I haven`t watched anime in 5 years. Don`t care.

>>120377047
>he's still going
Its ok anon, maybe one day you will give bebop a try and realise that its not bad just because you dont like some people who like it

>>120377027
Weakest criticism yet.

>>120377027
>trying too hard
I hate this buzzword, it doesnt even mean anything, at least shit like "edgy" and "comfy" let you have an idea of what the person wants to say

>>120377032
>>120376492 puts it in a more logical way.

>>120377091
I watched Bedop m8. I just like the subtle plot etc.

My other favorite where shows like Trigun etc that showed and went deep with morality.

My problem with the series was the opposite to most people's, in that I actually liked the episodes that were more-or-less completely episodic. The Alien parody with the fridge lobster and that episode where everyone except Ed trips out on mushrooms are better than the Spike/Julia/Vicious stuff any day.

>>120377174
You are only making SoL faggots look worse
Wait, is this like... double false flagging?
woah

>>120377231
I don`t even know what sol faggots are. And i ignored your false flag claim in your first post.

>>120377027
So because it does not pander to your taste and it does not spoon-feed the story to you i'ts bad? also
>muh

>>120377304
your?

Am I the only one who thinks that the "subtleties" of Bebop are completely irrelevant to the actual experience? It doesn't seem to add anything when you say "Oh, but see, this episode represents Spike's improper attitude toward the past and responsibility" or something.

>>120377200
I thought this too. Those episodes were super comfy and fun, even when they were scary or crazy. Anytime I noticed it was a Spike-plot episode, I got ready for a feels trip that would leave me confused.

Fuck this bait thread
also fuck everyone who replied to this thread, including me

>>120377353
its just character building

>>120377379
Read the thread before posting, there is some legit good discussion.

>>120377353
This. It's a great show because everything fits so well together: the setting, the music, the differing personalities of the characters.

>all these newfags

madoka is the best anime ever made right guys?

>>120377438
>the music
>six hour long ost

>>120377200
I like the middle-of-the-road ones the most, honestly. Vicious was fun but a little too over-the-top for my taste, and the ones with small-time criminals were more consistently interesting. The mushroom was fun, but the Alien one is bad. Feng shui is still the worst, though.

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>>120376492
This.
you can argue "rule of cool" all you want, but when you get down to it, bebop actually has a plot that's willing to stray with sides stories, while still coming full circle in the last few episodes in a meaningful way. Surprisingly few shows manage to pull this off right, and whether you consistent the show to be amazing of not, you have to admit they managed to do this while keeping wonderful tempo with the show's overall mood. If bebop is anything, it's a consistent experience.

>>120377124
>Tryharding criticism
The fans are even worse

>>120377134
What I meant was that I felt that it was trying to be as mature as possible to a fault. I don't care about the mature setting, I just want my storytelling.

>>120377304
Never said that

>>120377353
Yeah, I thought the character development was pretty clunky and bordering on forced at times. There's a particularly cringey scene where Faye says something like "I LEARNED NOT TO TRUST ANYONE A LONG TIME AGO" or something equally painful.

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>>120375207
>it's bad because it was on toonami

>people on /a/a actually think this way

>bebopfags
http://www.overthinkingit.com/2014/12/25/overthinking-cowboy-bebop-sessions-25-26/

>>120377511
what defines something as "mature"?
Are you one of those retards who thinks shingeki no kyojin is seinen because there's death in it?

>>120377200
My favourite episode is the VHS/Betamax one.
"It's the wrong size, it won't go in."
"WELL PUSH HARDER"

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>>120375207
No it's bad because it's a ripoff of a much superior anime

>>120377426
fuck you anon
at least 70% of this thread has been pure shitposting

>>120375207
It's a fine show, not really great or anything but not bad either. Some people make it out to be worse than what it is, others make it out to be better than what it is.

>>120375207
>Threads about shows popular in the west are shit because it attracts obnoxious crossboarders who act like literal retards.
FTFY

>>120377573
>Are you one of those retards who thinks shingeki no kyojin is seinen because there's death in it?
No

>what defines something as "mature"?
It's the whole, "I'm an adult so I'm going to smoke and drink liquor because it's the cool hip thing to do".

I hate it so much

>>120376492
>>120376953
>>120376582
It's sad that people here don't come away with at least this level of insight about the shit they obsess over, and that when someone happens to come by who isn't retarded, that person is hailed as a gem. I don't want to call /a/ dumb, because it will sound like I'm arrogant and my observation will be disregarded, but after being here for years and reading all the opinions that I have- you guys are dumb.

>>120376492
>>120376559
>this coincidence
f/a/ggots, once again we're right.

>>120377497
>Surprisingly few shows manage to pull this off right

Right.

Even the series with really engaging stories that have you downloading them as soon as they're subbed usually end really badly. It's astonishing how consistently bad most plot-driven anime endings are, actually.

There must be a reason for this.

>>120377689
What. Do you actually think they were trying to make people admire smoking, or what? It's just the noir atmosphere.

What is bad in Japan is actually good everywhere.


Fucking Weebs

>>120377777
can't argue with that

>>120377689
It seems like this is a less the fault of the device, and more a personal issue of yours.

>>120377497
>If bebop is anything, it's a consistent experience.

I'd disagree with that. My biggest gripe with Bebop is how you're having some great stories and the occasional plot relevant events, and then BOOM shit like the amusement park killer episode or the actual cowboy on a horse episode happens. The show would be infinitely better without that bullshit.

>>120377689
>It's the whole, "I'm an adult so I'm going to smoke and drink liquor because it's the cool hip thing to do".

You seen any of the things that influenced Cowboy Bebop? Smoking makes anyone auto-cool in fiction.

>>120377689
Wow, fuck you.

>>120377777
quints have spoken

>>120377777
quints confirm nips have shit taste

Please go back to the vidya game board.

The show is fine, but this thread is shit. If you try hard enough you can make a decent bebop thread without having to result to epic bait threads.

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>>120376757
only the last two episodes really hold up and have any meaning

>>120377692
It was more his punchy, digestible way of putting it than what he actually said. Part of the problem with analyzing plot on /a/ is that people tend to get waffly, long-winded and boring. Imageboards aren't the place for that sort of essay-length discussion.

The older I get, the more appreciation I have for good writing - even if it's something really "pointless" like plot analysis of an anime.

Besides, the internet just exposes people to such a huge volume of awful writing (just look at your average "video games/anime blogger") that the good stuff seems even better by contrast, I suppose.

>>120377692
Why? Why would I care about this rejection/acceptance of the past? It just doesn't seem like a particularly interesting or useful interpretation. What does it add that Faye "rejects the past"?

>>120377743
>Do you actually think they were trying to make people admire smoking
Not exactly, I don't mind smoking or people smoking for that matter. I just hate the atmosphere of it all.

>>120377820
Maybe

>>120377829
It's fucking stupid

>>120377837
Fuck you too, buddy

>>120377822
One man's bullshit is another man's favorite episode.

>>120377689
I have a feeling you dislike these things because you associate them with people you dislike in real life.

>>120377905
Hard Luck Woman is the best, though.

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>i dont like it cause the fanbase

>>120375675

>2deep4you

Anon-kun...

>>120377953
That would be true if I had anyone to dislike for this reason at all. I don't know anyone who would even fit the bill.

>>120377932
Did your dad used to hit you while smoking or something?

>>120377909
Because you are supposed to be emotionally attached to the characters and the world they inhabit on some level.

It's sort of like asking what's the point of a sub-quest in an RPG if it doesn't end up impacting the main quest?

You may as well avoid escapist media altogether if that's your attitude.

>>120377932
>It's fucking stupid

Smoking? Not a fucking chance. In real life it's pretty stupid, yeah, but would Clint Eastwood's Man With No Name look cool without the perma-cigar hanging out of his mouth? Would any 1940s Noir hero look cool without a cigarette? Nope. Without cigarettes, Clint would be a loser with a lame hat and dorky poncho and noir heroes would be sad nerds in fedoras. Same for Spike, without his cigs he's an asshole with stupid hair.

>>120377734
I'm specifically regarding show that don't regard plot progression as a high priority. Cowboy Bebop was only 26 episodes and most of it was dicking around for bounties. Regardless, they still had the ending pull together in a way that made sense. Everything came full circle.

>>120375207
Fucking hipster trash.

>muh secret club

KILL ALL HIPSTERS

>>120377932
>it's stupid
Why? It's a grungy atmosphere for a grungy underworld.

It's mad because it brought hipster trash into anime fandom. Cowboy Bebop has a worse fanbase than Naruto.

>>120377998
See
>>120377997

>>120378015
I actually like the mafia-looking motherfuckers with cigars in their mouths.

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>>120377692

Japan is about to become the Rising Sun (teh real again)

And you still complain about "the West", fucking weebs

>>120378030
I think that makes it even more impressive. It managed to pull off a more satisfying conclusion that a lot of series with a full 26 episodes of straight narrative development.

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>>120377968
>Hard Luck Woman
okay well that and asteroid blues and the casino episode are all good as well

so yeah the last 3 sessions were good with honorable mention to 1 and 4

>>120376492
Bebop contrarians BTFO

>>120378068
>>120378046
>hipster

Are you serious? Cowboy Bebop has massive mainstream appeal.

>>120377822
like or dislike aside, it still felt like a "bebop" episode. The show had it's faults, but it never felt like they were any inconsistencies in the creative flow.

>>120378057
I have no problem with a grungy atmosphere, but what I was trying to get at was that Bepop was doing it forcefully

The dark pasts felt kinda tacked on so the "MY LEFT EYE SEES THE PAAAAAST" stuff never really stuck with me. Especially Faye's backstory. She's a much more appealing character if she's just an unbelievably shitty gambler who's pissed off/falling into debt with a lot of people instead of a cryogenically-frozen past-lady.

>It's good because fuck you guys

>>120378168
Only you seem to feel this way.

>>120378168
It was kind of meant to, though. It's invoking a noir/grungy atmosphere by throwing in every genre convention going. The entire setting doesn't even make sense, it's just an endless string of sleazy jazz clubs, back-alleys and empty space that acts as a backdrop for the characters to do whatever.

>>120378225
Nah, the two are unrelated.

It's good because it's good.

Fuck you because fuck you.

>>120378168
I think that's just to emphasize the western (genre, not region) aspects of the show. Given that its set in space, the sci-fi themes are ever present, whereas the western elements aren't - so you need to lay on the western motifs (cigarettes, cigars, ponchos, cowboys, saloons etc) - a little thicker.

Just take it and run with it. It's meant to be a bit whimsical after all.

>literally hella fuckin epic cdxddmmememe
GRR I HATE MOESHIT BUG EYE ANIME FUCK
I ONLY WATCH MATURE ANIME FOR MATURE GENTLEMEN SUCH AS MYSELF
>ping pong, jin roh, lupin, evangelion and cowboy bebop are the best anime EVER made *tips fedora*
FUCKING epik SHATTING MY PANTS OFFF
>LOL fuck MOESHIT ANIME KYOANI KILLED ANIME
LELELELLE AGREE FUCKING INVENTED MOE ANIME ISNT GOOD ANYMORE LOL
TTGL IS THE BST ANIME EVER MADE XDD

>>120377692
>> I don't want to call /a/ dumb

Why not? As a matter of fact, all the big boards on 4chan are filled with dumbasses. No reason to hesitate callling them what they are.

>>120378149

The wrong part of the mainstream watched it. Find the anime "fans" whining about otaku killing the industry who hate everything from "moeshit" to pokemon and they list Cowboy Bebop among their favorites every time.

>>120378113
Exactly, they ended the show at the perfect time. If they had stretched it out the ending wouldn't of been as good, but if it was any shorter the conclusion would of been rushed. I feel as if 25-ish episodes for the kind of show Bebop was is usually Ideal.

>>120378002
Oh, I'm not asking why they put in the character-centric stuff and/or side plots - that's obviously important. I'm just asking why I would want to read that much into it, because what >>120376492 posted seemed to me like an overanalysis along faulty lines. I'd just say the characters are coming to terms with their circumstances and doing what they feel they have to. This "endurance in the present" stuff feels contrived and not particularly rewarding.

>>120378227
I know people who feel the same way I do

>>120378271
>The entire setting doesn't even make sense, it's just an endless string of sleazy jazz clubs, back-alleys and empty space that acts as a backdrop for the characters to do whatever.
This is part of the reason why I dislike it so much

>>120378317
I'll try, but no promises

>>120378327
A-Are you ok anon?

>>120377968
but Jupiter Jazz 1 & 2 are the best...

>>120378411
>This is part of the reason why I dislike it so much

Fair enough, I guess. If you were expecting a highly detailed setting that made perfect logical sense then you were looking at the wrong show.

>>120378355
i didnt know miyazaki liked bebop.
he's right about everything though

>>120375207
>its bad because its objectively good so I can't find any redeeming features in it and feel like only I can appreciate it

>>120378327
lol, it's like watching someone have a fit.

I guess when /a/ becomes senile in 50 years time, this is the sort of thing we'll be ranting if we don't take our meds.

>>120378355
The majority of people who have seen Cowboy Bebop have never had a conversation about "otaku killing the industry" or "moeshit" or anything of the sort. You're thinking too small. But then, that's what /a/ does to people.

>>120378455
bebop predicted self-heating ramen

>>120378168
I have literally no idea what you're arguing at this point. It's trying too hard to be mature, but it doesn't actually think it's mature, it's just creating an atmosphere, but it's doing it too "forcefully" (it's a pastiche of genres, of course it'll display its influences strongly)? What do you mean?

>>120378505
What?

>>120378411
>I know people who feel the same way I do

I meant in this thread.

>>120378523
Having conversations about "otaku killing the industry" or "moeshit" is what makes the difference between true anime fans and casuals

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>>120378327
Care to calm down anon? We are all friends here.

>>120378408
Ah, I see.

Yeah, that's just language though - perhaps it comes across as a little too verbose, but ultimately what he's saying is that Jet is the only one who really deals with his past in such a way that he can stick with the life he has been living.

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Behold, the cycle of /a/ before our very eyes.

>interesting new show starts
Hey this is kinda cool.
>show gets better
Hey guys this show is awesome!
>show grows in popularity
It's ok.
>show becomes super popular
It's absolute shit!

Fuck you /a/. I'm not going to stop liking Cowboy Bebop because a bunch of neckbeard faggots don't like the fact that it's popular.

>>120378611
Yes, but a bunch of casuals have seen Bebop. It's about as far from "hipster" as anime come.

>>120378327
Let's talk about that lower case "epik" though: what was the author trying to convey?

>>120378611
SoL faggots are really casual though, in the same level as the people who think one piece is the epitome of the animated medium

>>120378611
I wasn't talking about "true anime fans" in the first place. All I said was that Cowboy Bebop had massive mainstream appeal.

>>120378660

>uses the word "neckbeard" as an insult

Typical bebopfag.

>>120378611
Yeah only casuals actually worry about shit like "killing the industry"

Firefly was better.

>>120378704

I liked them back when they only whined about SoL shows. When they started complaining about stuff like NGNL and Cross Ange is when I realized they were cancer.

>>120375207
I actually began watching Cowboy Beebop with friends since everyone said it was good entry-level stuff. Five episodes in, we all wondered why did anyone ever say it's good and switched to something else. In the end, I enjoyed it, after 20 episodes the characters have grown on you stuff, but I wouldn't say it's a masterpiece

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>>120378737

>>120378655
Faye does so, too, though. It just doesn't seem significant.

>>120378702
The author is struggling with the sheer intake of negative 4chan stereotypes he needs to meld together into a single persona:

>Fedora wearers
>Moe-haters
>Anime casuals
>Hipsters
>Non-ironic shitposters

It's an attempt to fuse all of these together into one single person, a person who exists only to be hated on /a/.

It's quite clever, in a way.

>>120377559
This shit is quite good.

>>120378575
I've explained my reasoning as best as my limited vocabulary allows me to. To put it simply, I disliked the forceful maturity in the atmosphere, it just didn't stick with me. I guess it's because I can't imagine a setting like this. It doesn't make sense to me and I felt it could have done better.

>>120378599
Touche

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>>120378737
Cowboy Bebop > Firefly
Serenity > Knockin' on Heaven's Door

>>120376127
Yeah that guy was driving me nuts

>>120378798
You spoilered the wrong sentence.

>>120376155
I think that's the point. Besides looking cool from a western perspective, he's supposed to be this alien-esque devil-like character compared to everyone else.

>>120378866
>double dubs
Nice.

What do you mean by "forced," and what would it need to do to be "better"? Not like, what actual changes, but what sort of changes (like, did it need to be more like reality, or less eclectic, or what)?

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>>120378891

>>120375207
I like Cowboy Bebop, there's just nothing left to discuss. Why don't crossboarders realize this?

>>120378813
Does Faye do it in the same way as Jet though?

I'm struggling as it has been years since I watched Bebop, but from what I remember Jet seems to accept Spike's way of resolving everything in a way Faye doesn't. Maybe that's just him being less emotional as a matter of course though.

Although I suppose you could argue it's clear Faye had a thing for Spike and that Spike going off and getting himself killed closes off that last chance of a happy life Faye felt she could have had.

Jet had already accepted the Bebop was his life from now on well before that I think.

Forgive me if I'm forgetting anything, as I said, it has been years.

If you want a good episodic space western watch Ginga Tetsudou 999. If you want crap, watch Cowboy Bebop.

>>120378880
lets be real here

Star Trek TOS > Cowboy Bebop > Firefly > Farscape > shit > the holocaust > Stargate

>>120378980
>TOS

Dude, you serious? DS9 is the only Star Trek series that has ever had an enjoyable over-arching plot.

>>120378880
>meme
fucking kill yourself

>>120379038
Dead serious, TOS is the only one I liked along with parts of TNG. I like that there's no overarching plot, every episode is a distinct (even if some are shit) hour-long adventure.

Spike doesn't die at the end. And the director was interested in making a sequel but didn't want to piss off fans who would be upset to see what they saw as a definitive ending for Spike ruined by a sequel.

>>120378980
>>120379038
>Star Trek
lol ok grampa

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>>120378974

>>120378970
I think their relationship with their own past is about the same. She comes to acknowledge and move past her past, as he does. And I don't think Jet can be said with any certainty to have a happy life after this - he's just made his choice of how to struggle through it.

>>120378980
Realtalk.
Star Trek TOS was great for it's time, but without nostalgia glasses, Next generation is far better. It was written wonderfully.
>>120379038
>next Gen>DS9
>just sayin

>>120379090
Fair enough, I'm not a huge fan of Star Trek in general but I enjoyed a fair few TNG eps, so I can sympathize.

>>120375207
Did anyone else find Waltz for Venus ridiculously depressing?
Hell, the fact that the girl is getting her sight restored pales in comparison to the fact she's now all on her own.

I enjoyed Cowboy Bebop a lot, but Real Folk Blues 1&2 seemed kind of rushed. I really didn't get any kind of heavy emotional impact about Julia returning, I didn't care about her character at all.

>>120377734
Most Japanese plots try to top each other in being "significant" leading to overcomplexity that could ruin the experience for some people. Overcomplexity can ruin things for people. Hell, look at Kingdom Hearts despite most of that complexity being completely peripheral

>>120379195
She wasn't relevant enough in my opinion, it also seemed like Spike didn't care when she died either.

>>120379152
>Star Trek TOS was great for it's time, but without nostalgia glasses

Most of it is overacted campy fun these days, but there are a couple episodes which stand out as being genuinely good pieces of sci-fi writing. The mirror universe, A Taste of Armageddon and Balance of Terror come to mind.

>Next generation is far better. It was written wonderfully

It was written wonderfully, but a lot of the time it lacked energy and momentum. Even when they had a really solid plot/interesting moral dilemma or whatever, they still sometimes managed to turn it into 30 minutes of people saying the same thing over and over with a painful 15 min sideplot where Riker goes on a date or something.

>>120378945
>What do you mean by "forced,"
Needed less time focusing on the setting, more on the story
>and what would it need to do to be "better"
If it focused more on the emotional setting, it would have left a better impact in my opinion at least.

>>120379360
Okay, so you're not really complaining about the use of cigarettes to make it feel mature, you're complaining that it wasn't plot-focused enough.

>>120379272
You didn't hear his silent scream?

>>120379460
It's been about a year since I have watched it. I just remember it looked like he didn't care much after that.

>>120379360
>Needed less time focusing on the setting, more on the story

But in a lot of episodes there isn't a story to focus on, you're just meant to enjoy the characters and atmosphere. The best way I can put it is "style over substance" except as a compliment rather than a criticism. The style is the substance.

A lot of your criticisms (other than the weird smoking one) make it seem like you were expecting something completely different to what the show was trying to be.

>>120379536
>style over substance
This should almost always be a compliment.

>>120375313
>being this millennial
There was a point in time when story telling was show and not tell and there wasn't a neat, hand-wrapped answer to every question provided by the author, and literally everything was better for it. Get some fucking taste you scrub.

Rewatched Cowboy bebop recently and it made me appreciate even more. Since Bebop was one of my first shows I ever watched I could never really appreciate its production values and its subtle plot compared to other anime from around the time or even today. In presentation and direction Bebop is a 10/10 show with minor hic ups in some of the later episodes (mainly those to do with Jet). I watched it in Blu-Ray with surround sound and the Art is probably the best I have seen in a TV anime and the Soundtrack is amazingly well composed. It is when you compare it to like Trigun or Outlaw Star that you realize this show was on another level entirely, presentation wise this is closer to the massive budget OVA's of the 90's like Giant Robo and 08th MS Team. After watching hundreds of anime Cowboy Bebop is definitely worth revisiting if it was one of your first, it gets better with experience.

>>120379345
Next Gen had it's eye rolling episodes, but when It was good, it was REALLY good. They were willing to ask some big philosophical questions, and the science behind most of the plot was super solid, even for today. TOS was great for the campy stuff, but It's not something that's ever been able to draw my fascination like Next gen has. Plus Patrick Stewart's acting is jizz inducing.

>>120379672
Oh yeah, it's way better than Trigun and Outlaw Star. Outlaw Star's probably the closest thing in terms of themes, and while good, it's nowhere near as good.

Samurai Champloo is a good example of a series that is similar in feel, but has markedly less interesting characters, less enjoyable episodic stories and a fairly unedifying main plot. It's good as a point of comparison actually, given the same sort of structure and that it's also by Watanabe.

>>120379672
Cowboy had that feel that I feel shows had trouble trying to reproduce. It is defiantly a good show to watch if you are a beginner.

>>120376492
All of which is contained within..what 4 total episodes at the beginning and very end of the series? Everything is episodic and never referenced again.

Like all of Watanabe's shit the show is eclectic as fuck, hell it's in the name.

>>120379532
He decided he didn't care about living anymore. Single-handedly raiding a mafia's headquarter is basically a suicide.

>>120380271
I realized that right after I posted that. I feel silly now.

>>120380239
>All of which is contained within..what 4 total episodes

Only Spike's story. Counting the rest of the cast you have a solid 10 or so episodes of pure character and story development. The series truly concludes at 24, 25-26 is just Spike's story. 24 is when ED's arc finishes and Faye finally discovers everything about her past. Probably the most story driven episode actually was the one with videotape about Faye's past but people tend to overlook that one for some reason.

>>120380050
That's why it's bad for newcomers to watch it, in a way. Lots of newfriends who watch Bebop invariably ask us what else is like it, and we rec stuff like Trigun or Outlaw Star - but really, the similarities are superficial - in terms of feeling, Bebop is incredibly unique, in the medium of animation anyway.

Best to start with NGE instead.

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>>120376492
Something I always found amusing, is that the show itself is blatant as being an existential exploration. Hand in hand with that, there is a feeling of isolation throughout the show, particularly with Spike and Faye. But, it seems only through their relationship that Faye is able learn and exist in the present.

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>>120375675
>or wanking off, between scenes.
But wanking off to Faye is half the reason I even watch CB

>>120380762
>KLK now is Cowboy Bepop of our generation
Anime has plummeted.

>>120380762
>of our generation
>our

Shouldn't you be studying for your algebra test?

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>>120376492
>Finally, Spike rejects any hope for a better future when he walks away from Faye in the last episode.
> When Faye later discovered her past life she learned (in both a metaphorical and literal way) that there is no going back. Faye ultimately rejects the past in favor of the life she has made with the crew of the Bebop, only to have it slip through her fingers.

Stop making me sad Anon.