Genre deconstruction is the act of making a piece of art as barebones as possible in relation to it's genre's tropes and cliches. In doing so, it oftentimes revolutionizes the genre, by pointing out flaws and unneeded aspects of the genre itself.
>>120068761 A deconstruction is what it implies: it takes a genre with all its clichés, tropes and inherent flaws, then tries to find a clever way around them, plays with them, or simply laughs at them.
Well, Deconstruction as in terms of what it actually is is a movement in literary criticism and philosophy regarding the instability of human language that alters our understanding of things, therefore meaning nothing can have set meaning. It seeks to break down inherent biases in language and so on and so forth.
Deconstruction as to what it means to anime, I have no fucking clue because it's certainly not that.
>>120068441 Within the confines of tradition, it's an (intentionally) poorly defined method of literary analysis that often attacks the notion of meaning.
Within the context of popular media, a trope is "deconstructed" when often ignored aspects of a trope are not ignored, but instead analyzed. The trope however is not subverted, inverted, or averted, it technically is played straight.
>>120069028 Madoka is a deconstruction, because it contains all the trappings of a magical girl anime, yet where most other entries in the genre are lighthearted and upbeat, Madoka attempts to show a more realistic depiction of how a scenario such as this would play out.
>>120068441 A word that became a buzzword because haters keep shitposting until anything connected to the series they hate becomes a buzzword. Not convinced Madoka was a deconstruction even back when the word meant anything
>>120069309 >Not convinced Madoka was a deconstruction even back when the word meant anything
Because it's not. Certainly not with the context of Derrida, and within the context of tvtropes iit only deconstructs tropes common in the genre to reconstruct everything at the end, until Rebellion happened.
>>120069251 Magical girls shows have always had death and suffering, Madoka isn't any different in that regard. Nor is Madoka more realistic since none of the girls can be said to have a realistic personality. They are all guided by different ideals to become magical girls and the show explores what those ideals are. At it's core Madoka is very idealistic like all other magical girl shows.
I didn't give an opinion on Deconstruction in anime though, because I really don't know what people mean by it exactly. As far as I've seen it means a show presenting and then subverting the cliches and basics of the genre to make some sort of statement about the genre itself, but it's a pretty vague thing. Regardless, I definitely know what actual Deconstructionism is.
>>120069661 I think that 'deconstruction' is more a psychologic issue than a "physical" one. It's more about playing with what you would expect of something that is supposed to obey to the rules defined by its predecessors.
>>120069726 >>120069739 But that's not deconstruction as people have defined it here. It's not playing the tropes straight to expose the genre for what it is, according to you it does the opposite of that.
People just decide on which shows should be considered deconstruction beforehand and then redefine the term to fit their needs. It's meaningless. If I asked what makes NGE, or Utena deconstruction I'd get more vague and completely contradictory replies.
All fiction builds on older tropes and at the same time tries to be original. That's not deconstruction.
Okay, so are we operating under the assumption that Deconstruction as used in terms of anime is just a bastardization of Derrida's theory? I've honestly never seen the two as connected in anything but name because the way anime people use it is so far removed from Derrida's, but I'm willing to believe it's that way.
I've personally read Derrida (not the guy you responded to in that post, but the one he responded to), and I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what Deconstruction is, though I think it's a depressing theory to use to analyze things since it sort of inherently eschews meaning in art.
>>120070144 That's the point: if they actually read Deridda (although that is not really impressive, since literary theorists have moved away from Derrida) then they would realize deconstruction does not fit within their framework of analyzing anime: they're describing a subversion, or a parody. They have yet to show me any anime that has aporias -- until they do, i'm just going to consider them idiots for using the term.
>>120070346 It's a vicious cycle of baseless shitposting against Madoka leading to defensive Madoka fans being cancer and cancerous fanbase leading to people wanting to explain how it's not a good show, even if they need to resort to baseless shitposting. Afterwards even reasonable arguments get attacked by the cancerous fanbase.
>>120070514 Because this is what deconstructionism is: >>120068943 >a movement in literary criticism and philosophy regarding the instability of human language that alters our understanding of things, therefore meaning nothing can have set meaning. It seeks to break down inherent biases in language and so on and so forth.
Why the hell do people keep name-dropping Derrida in this thread? You guys realize whatever meaning of 'deconstruction' we are working with here is completely different from Derrida's definition of the word, right?
>>120070994 >You guys realize whatever meaning of 'deconstruction' we are working with here You're missing the point. What you call "deconstruction" already has a name, see >>120070283 What people are getting at is that you're misusing a term for absolutely no good reason.
>>120071126 There can be more than one definition for a word. Derrida's definition has to do with analysing the use of the words themselves from what I remember, while we're going by the TVTropes definition which is significantly different.
My battle brothers! I thought I was the only one getting butt blasted by normalfags misusing the word deconstruction when they meant subversion of common tropes, its such an intellectual dishonesty as they seek to make themselves feel better or validated of watching anime/cartoons, its something a 12 year old would do.
>>120071284 >There can be more than one definition for a word. Derrida's definition has to do with analysing the use of the words themselves from what I remember, while we're going by the TVTropes definition which is significantly different.
Sure but the concept already exists, its called subversion and theres no need to use a different version of the word 'deconstruction'
>>120071715 Maybe but we can agree that its made not to create but to analyze creations and art and as such a truly deconstructive artistic work cannot exist with the exception of Architecture but I personally find that debatable.
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