What is a 'deconstruction'?

the opposite of a construction

what i did to ur mum pussy last night

>>120068467
BOOM

>>120068441
What Madoka couldn't accomplish.

Constructing something inside out.

It's a buzzword to express how dark and mature your favourite anime is.

It means "I'm not going to watch this anime".

>>120068441
I don't have a clear definition but I can give an example: this thread is a deconstruction of anything worth spending time on

It's basically stuff like Game of Thrones, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Madoka

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Well this has got to be a deconstruction, right?

Genre deconstruction is the act of making a piece of art as barebones as possible in relation to it's genre's tropes and cliches. In doing so, it oftentimes revolutionizes the genre, by pointing out flaws and unneeded aspects of the genre itself.

>>120068711
School Days is a deconstruction of the Harem genre and gets hated on but when NGE/Madoka/Utena do the same thing in their respective genres, they're loved

>>120068711
So, overrated?

>>120068441
a buzzword

>>120068761
A deconstruction is what it implies: it takes a genre with all its clichés, tropes and inherent flaws, then tries to find a clever way around them, plays with them, or simply laughs at them.

>>120068784
>Harem genre
There's your problem right there m8.

>>120068784
None of those are deconstructions. Except possibly Utena.

>>120068860
So pretty much exactly what I said..

>>120068890
That's just wrong though.

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>>120068441
>Continental Philosophy

Well, Deconstruction as in terms of what it actually is is a movement in literary criticism and philosophy regarding the instability of human language that alters our understanding of things, therefore meaning nothing can have set meaning. It seeks to break down inherent biases in language and so on and so forth.

Deconstruction as to what it means to anime, I have no fucking clue because it's certainly not that.

>>120068890
Those are all deconstruction except School Days

>>120068943
>I have no fucking clue
>Yet I still have an opinion

>>120068711
How the hell is game of thrones a deconstruction

>>120068937
>>120068998
How is Madoka deconstruction?

>>120068441
Within the confines of tradition, it's an (intentionally) poorly defined method of literary analysis that often attacks the notion of meaning.

Within the context of popular media, a trope is "deconstructed" when often ignored aspects of a trope are not ignored, but instead analyzed. The trope however is not subverted, inverted, or averted, it technically is played straight.

>>120069028
Madoka is not a deconstruction, it's a reconstruction (at least until Rebellion).

>>120069028
It takes apart a ton of magical girl cliches

>>120069028
Madoka is a deconstruction, because it contains all the trappings of a magical girl anime, yet where most other entries in the genre are lighthearted and upbeat, Madoka attempts to show a more realistic depiction of how a scenario such as this would play out.

>>120068441
A word that became a buzzword because haters keep shitposting until anything connected to the series they hate becomes a buzzword. Not convinced Madoka was a deconstruction even back when the word meant anything

Is a word used to make bullshit look cool.

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I think I'm still too stupid to understand.

>>120069309
>Not convinced Madoka was a deconstruction even back when the word meant anything

Because it's not. Certainly not with the context of Derrida, and within the context of tvtropes iit only deconstructs tropes common in the genre to reconstruct everything at the end, until Rebellion happened.

Some shit from TV Tropes

>>120069203
Which ones?

>>120069251
Magical girls shows have always had death and suffering, Madoka isn't any different in that regard. Nor is Madoka more realistic since none of the girls can be said to have a realistic personality. They are all guided by different ideals to become magical girls and the show explores what those ideals are. At it's core Madoka is very idealistic like all other magical girl shows.

>>120069028
>genki heroine has a tremendous power
>not the work from some godlike entity or fate that chose the girl but the result of a despair-driven cause

>magical girls full of lengthy transformation scenes for commercial purposes
>barely has some

>magical girls shows are about throwing laser, magical weapons with sparkles and rainbows
>has true-to-life blade weapons and guns, blood, severed heads and implied human murders

>Genki light-hearted setting with typical school-life tropes
>school-life becomes the main reason for one of the heroines' doom

>Magical girl shows often have a way around the hardships of evil
>The further you go into Madoka, the more hopeless everything becomes until episode 12

There are more

>I don't like an anime.
>Therefore I disagree with any analysis of it.

Faggots

When you look at an genre, and criticize parts of it for there values
That's the impression that i get, at least

Something normalfags tell themselves so they don't have to feel guilty for enjoying an anime.

>>120069476
So Madoka avoids using certain common magical gril tropes. How does that make it a deconstruction? That's contradictory to the definition of deconstruction given earlier in the thread.

Just more evidence that it's a meaningless buzzword

>>120069585
What about the several other, incredibly popular anime, that are certainly not deconstructions?

>>120069006

I didn't give an opinion on Deconstruction in anime though, because I really don't know what people mean by it exactly. As far as I've seen it means a show presenting and then subverting the cliches and basics of the genre to make some sort of statement about the genre itself, but it's a pretty vague thing. Regardless, I definitely know what actual Deconstructionism is.

>>120069661
No, the tropes are there, but they're either ignored or reduced in order to create a different outcome stylistically.

>>120069661
I think that 'deconstruction' is more a psychologic issue than a "physical" one. It's more about playing with what you would expect of something that is supposed to obey to the rules defined by its predecessors.

In this regard, Madoka has everything.

>>120069668
>it means a show presenting and then subverting the cliches and basics of the genre to make some sort of statement about the genre itself

Close. The subversion of the genre's tropes aren't necessary for a work to be considered a deconstruction.

>>120069822
Read Derrida, you pleb, and stop using theory that you don't understand.

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Is KLK a deconstruction of the Shounen genre?

>>120069726
>>120069739
But that's not deconstruction as people have defined it here. It's not playing the tropes straight to expose the genre for what it is, according to you it does the opposite of that.

People just decide on which shows should be considered deconstruction beforehand and then redefine the term to fit their needs. It's meaningless. If I asked what makes NGE, or Utena deconstruction I'd get more vague and completely contradictory replies.

All fiction builds on older tropes and at the same time tries to be original. That's not deconstruction.

>>120069914
anta baka?

>>120069914
according to the many definitions in this thread, yes

but it still sucks

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>>120069914

>>120069873

Okay, so are we operating under the assumption that Deconstruction as used in terms of anime is just a bastardization of Derrida's theory? I've honestly never seen the two as connected in anything but name because the way anime people use it is so far removed from Derrida's, but I'm willing to believe it's that way.

I've personally read Derrida (not the guy you responded to in that post, but the one he responded to), and I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what Deconstruction is, though I think it's a depressing theory to use to analyze things since it sort of inherently eschews meaning in art.

>>120070144
That's the point: if they actually read Deridda (although that is not really impressive, since literary theorists have moved away from Derrida) then they would realize deconstruction does not fit within their framework of analyzing anime: they're describing a subversion, or a parody. They have yet to show me any anime that has aporias -- until they do, i'm just going to consider them idiots for using the term.

Why do Madoka fans get upset when people bring up the fact that their magical show isn't a deconstruction? There's absolutely nothing wrong with not being one.

>>120070346
Because they're insecure for liking an anime, thus they have to insert a theory that doesn't actually work. Just NGE-fags applying Lacanian psychoanalysis.

>>120070346
It's a vicious cycle of baseless shitposting against Madoka leading to defensive Madoka fans being cancer and cancerous fanbase leading to people wanting to explain how it's not a good show, even if they need to resort to baseless shitposting. Afterwards even reasonable arguments get attacked by the cancerous fanbase.

>>120070346
Of course there is nothing wrong with a piece not being a deconstruction, but Madoka very much is.

There have been several posts here describing the aspects of the show that lead to that analysis. Show your reasons as to why you disagree.

>>120070514
Because this is what deconstructionism is: >>120068943
>a movement in literary criticism and philosophy regarding the instability of human language that alters our understanding of things, therefore meaning nothing can have set meaning. It seeks to break down inherent biases in language and so on and so forth.

>>120070514
See >>120070006
That's coming from a Madokafag. It's an objectively good show that is deep-ish or more, but it's not really a deconstruction. Especially if you consider the final episode.

>>120070606
I just noticed what I wrote was confusing. I meant to say I'm a Madokafag, not that the author of >>120070006 is

>>120070514
Because exaggerating tropes that were already in the genre does not a deconstruction make.

>>120070693
> does not a deconstruction make
Make fun of your English I will

>>120070744
Not him, but holy fuck, are you completely uncultured?

So what would a real deconstruction of the magical girl genre be like?

Why the hell do people keep name-dropping Derrida in this thread? You guys realize whatever meaning of 'deconstruction' we are working with here is completely different from Derrida's definition of the word, right?

>>120070894
Judging from >>120068943 it'd be documentary-style talking about how a certain literary movement interacts with magical girl anime

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>Deconstruction

So what would be the correct term we should use for describing a show that does what Madoka, Utena, NGE did for their genres?

>>120070994
You're retarded.

>>120070994
>You guys realize whatever meaning of 'deconstruction' we are working with here
You're missing the point. What you call "deconstruction" already has a name, see >>120070283
What people are getting at is that you're misusing a term for absolutely no good reason.

>>120071092
"shitpost trigger"?

>>120071132
I kek'd.

>>120071092
Subversion.

On a side note, I must say I'm impressed that people here can unironically talk using the word deconstruction without sperging out like retards. Good job anons.

>>120071190
Thanks for your approval you lower than shit faggot. Get out of this thread.

Madoka is probably the greatest anime. None have come close it. Anime is basically dead.

>>120071126
There can be more than one definition for a word. Derrida's definition has to do with analysing the use of the words themselves from what I remember, while we're going by the TVTropes definition which is significantly different.

>>120071123
Nice contribution idiot.

>>120071253
Anime is dead. -- Nietzsche

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>>120071179
Damn, you're actually right. This is pretty much the definition of those shows.

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>>120071217

>>120071284
>TVTropes definition
I knew you were retarded.

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>>120071292

Madoka is dead. -- Homura

>>120071126
>>120070283

My battle brothers! I thought I was the only one getting butt blasted by normalfags misusing the word deconstruction when they meant subversion of common tropes, its such an intellectual dishonesty as they seek to make themselves feel better or validated of watching anime/cartoons, its something a 12 year old would do.

>>120071344
Then which definition are you using dumbass? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because if you're seriously using Derrida's definition for anime you're a retard.

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>>120071377

>>120071284
>There can be more than one definition for a word. Derrida's definition has to do with analysing the use of the words themselves from what I remember, while we're going by the TVTropes definition which is significantly different.

Sure but the concept already exists, its called subversion and theres no need to use a different version of the word 'deconstruction'

>>120071431
god that anime girl is cute i would love to kiss her

Is Madoka objectively good or just entry level shit?

>>120071284
>while we're going by the TVTropes definition which is significantly different.
Who gives a fuck what a bunch of absolute idiots think? They're also misusing a word for no good reason.

>>120071488
See >>120070606

>>120071092
Some aspects of Utena are deconstructive, Evangelion is babby's first subversive anime, and Madoka is just another dark mahou shoujo.

>>120071488

Babby's first grimdark mahou shoujo.

>>120071464
>anime girl
Why you do this anon ;_;

>>120071488
I guess you could get a lot of different answer on a Madoka thread. Personnally, it's my second favourite show, behind Mononoke Hime.

It really depends on what you like, tho.

>>120071537
Jeeez did you even read the fking thread?

>>120071488
It's 7/10 good and also entry level.

>>120071488
It's great.

>>120071645
>7/10
>good
Make your standards better.

>>120071537
>Madoka
>shoujo
>I have no idea what I am talking about
FTFY

The funny thing is not even Derrida himself could give a satisfying definition of his own term.

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this is now a madoka thread

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>>120071688

>>120071688
Are you an idiot?

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>>120071688

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>>120071720
Post best girl

>>120071715
Maybe but we can agree that its made not to create but to analyze creations and art and as such a truly deconstructive artistic work cannot exist with the exception of Architecture but I personally find that debatable.

>>120071688
Dumbest post award

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>>120071688

>>120071681
*tips fedora*

>>120071688
nice b8