Does the first episode feel not as fresh when you're already full aware of what to expect? I guess to people who never saw the one-off episode it feels entirely novel, but the surprise and shock is definitely long gone here.
Worst show of the season. Absolutely contrived bullshit solely to be as edgy as possible while pretending to be about something.
They just happened to forget stuff and remember stuff at the exact time it would be horrible/sad/tragic/gory/edgy/etc. The afterlife test just happens to be this gruesome and pointless 2v2. The solution to the puzzle just happens to be incredibly obvious (so all the viewers can seem smart that they figured it out straight away) yet the characters are so stupid they don't even think to ask more than a question or two before starting.
Edgemaster barman character design.
Bullshit "so edgy" revelation after "so edgy" revelation.
Characters acting completely stupid and irrational both before the timeline starts and during the episode. Completely random shit like going bezerk and trying to stab her (cause it's edgy and we wanna be about dark things like death and hurting eachother).
Oh it just so happens to hit the bullseye because he interupted her, oh wow.
Every single thing that happened in the show I thought "If this thing happens next I'll be really fucking pissed" and then that thing happened, and it kept happening till the end of the episode.
If the subsequent episodes are anything like this one this'll easily be the worst anime of the season.
>>119678351 All that edge and we don't even know what the show is actually about because they were more concerned with attracting the "whoa, so gruesome, edgy games involving human lives and suffering via completely contrived metaphysics that don't even make sense in-universe, SO COOL" crowd.
>>119678351 And to top it all off, just for that icing of extra edge... the loser is stuck in samsara, and the winner goes to purgatory (or possibly worse, depending on interpretation), fucking great. I just love arbitrarily dark shit like this, especially when it pretends to be deep.
>>119678760 Jerry springer anime version fills the retarded quota but they decided to add in arbitrary suffering, corpses, blood, forced torture of loved ones, and 'good endings' that include experiencing eternal nothingness to fill the edge quota.
>>119678897 >>119678929 I think he means in the case of a couple dying at the same time they'll be put to the game instead of random two strangers. The conflict between the couple during the episode maybe was intended to really draw out each other's true colors.
>>119678985 Every thread about Death Parade should just put a fucking link to Death Billiards at this point. It shows how the games don't have to hurt your body, Decim's sympathetic side, how the pair doesn't have to know each other, how no one can die in the bar, etc. People are missing out
>>119679054 >The winner gets to die for good. From information in the first episode alone, all we get is 'void' which could be purgatory, worse, or-- yeah, just straight up death. Best result is death? Fuck yeah that gets my suffering hard on going.
>>119678897 >>119678929 >>119678955 >>119679018 Everything was predetermined, the games, the match up, everything. The whole purpose is to bring out the players true colors. If the only way to show one's true colors is to be with a stranger or someone they know (if they die at the same moment, of course) then so be it. It'll making judgement easier. >>119679081 I think watching Death Parade ep1 then Billiards might help before watching the rest of Parade.
>>119679358 No, things like diabolik lover or ouran host club are not harem. I mean actual polyandry. Not even one. All I see is a bunch of guys being cockteased by a cunt that can't just say, she wants them all.
>>119679150 >>119679259 I can assume there are some inconsistencies but it is nonetheless canon. How he doesn't say who goes to the void and who goes to reincarnate in Billiards and vice versa in Parade might just be change to leave out any left over questions floating over the course of Parade airing.
>>119679691 So just like every normal harem? Shounen and shoujo aren't all that different. Good luck finding one with real multiple lovers. And one with a good ending is just never happening because Japan fucks up everything good.
>>119679468 >>119679458 Considering that literally every aspect of the show is completely contrived and they don't seem to care about the metaphysics making sense, the end result could have been literally anything.
There is no reason other than edge to make it something 'dark' like being stuck in samsara or 'true death'. The winner could have gone to heaven, or a more fun purgatory at least. Or they could explicitly point out that they're stuck in samsara, but they're going up the chain, perhaps.
How are you suppoed to enjoy a show where literally every 30 seconds they introduce a new, completely contrived, completely bullshit fact or occurance, that you have to accept without any thought for the setting and everything that is happening to be reasonable.
>>119679865 >>There is no reason other than edge to make it something 'dark' like being stuck in samsara or 'true death' But true death isn't dark at all, you'd know that if you knew a little bit about buddhism.
>>119680238 >and yours is particularly vague and buzzwordy. This is a great line coming from the person dimissing criticism with phrases like 'vague' and 'buzzwordy'. I mean really...
Contrived has a pretty solid definition within the context of writing that almost everyone understands and pretending it simply means 'absolutely anything which is deliberately created in any way' in this context is pretty disingeuous.
Watch characters we introduced you to in 10seconds go through horrible shit solely due to utter stupidity and a towering stack of completely unexplained coincidences piled on top of each other just so we can reach the distilled nectar of suffering at the end... all while we're expecting you to care for these randoms you don't know anything about and have not shared any time or growth with.
>>119681157 Hold the phone you might have something here, though Hinduism's Lotus is all but identical to Bhuddism's: >
In Hinduism, the lotus (Sanskrit: padma) primarily represents beauty and non-attachment. The lotus is rooted in the mud but floats on the water without becoming wet or muddy. This symbolizes how how one should live in the world in order to gain release from rebirth: without attachment to one's surroundings.
>>119681288 >This symbolizes how how one should live in the world in order to gain release from rebirth: without attachment to one's surroundings.
Except both the guy and the girl were fucked up people who lived shitty lives, the girl was released from samsara just because she won. There isn't really anything deep going on here, it's just a gruesome game show, enjoy it for what it is.
>>119681766 >Yeah, buddhism or hinduism, whatever, could be any of them, all the same right? There's people with loads of arms in both, namely Buddha Guanyin in Buddhism and Vishnu in Hinduism. More things point towards Hinduism, since Guanyin is a chick.
>>119681961 >If you think Hinduism of any kind is at all similar to Buddhism of any kind then you're a fucking idiot. I dunno. Buddhism lifted the idea of samsara straight from Hinduism. All religions in that area have heavily influenced each other, sorta like Christianity incorporated many, many paganistic rituals or how the Romans made the gods of the ones they conquered part of their pantheon.
>one episode aired with a single character >everyone won't shut the fuck up about what religious connection the other completely undeveloped characters have in a show that's obviously mixing a whole bunch of shit together
There are better things to discuss than trying to see who read a Herman Hesse novel that one time in high school.
>>119682249 Atheists are also self-righteous wankers who only learn about religion so they argue with it, instead of actually being interested in the way it shaped the various cultures around the globe.
>>119682399 I think you misunderstand me, anon. I'm not defending them, I was actually going for an insult. My belief has always been that atheists are largely made up of angry children/manchildren who's parents were religious nuts.
>>119676885 Everything was pretty obvious from the get go, so it wasn't that surprising. I mean it was called 'death parade' and every little happening led directly into the next thing is a very obvious way. I'd not seen this other episode thing and the only thing I knew about the show was the title when I started watching it.
That being said, it was recommended to me by a friend whose tastes I know, so I expected it to be pretty suffering/grusome heavy. I think I would have seen everything coming with just the title though. Actually probably even without that, they hold your hand through the first ep pretty tightly.
>>119676885 I was expecting the game to play out entirely differently since I wasn't expecting extreme human desperation due to having seen it in Death Billiards already.
I got desperation again.
The fact the game was darts was a real kicker to me too, I was expecting the you can hit the other person's dartboard thing to come into play in the self sacrifice sort of way, not the haha I can use your darts way.
There was potential for beauty, but it was just human ugliness in the end. I hope that not all of the games end up being like that.
I hope they just abandon the games and instead go into exploration of their purgatorial world. Otherwise it'd be the same shit every week, with new terrible people playing games connected to organ pain.
>>119682919 Wife was released from samsara which is basically the best thing in buddhism. Yet they're clearly both horrible people who lost the game (since the solution was very obviously to not to play via discards, they should be tortured for their stupidity).
So if you actually win what do you get? Get to be a death parader like them? Get a blow job?
What made the short become unique was the mostly unexpected turn in the old man's personality, and then seeing he was thug. It felt like a really good story that should have only been told once, and only worked once by leaving the end open.
>>119682709 Once in a while studios do anime that don't are realy targeted to a certain audience. I mean, although they are companies that need money to survive, they still a creative industry, they make shows for fun sometimes. I would say for each 90 commercial shows they make 10 just for creativity reasons
>>119683041 Where did it say that though? I feel like this is all speculation. At the end of the ED the guy even said something like " The husband will be reincarnated, and the wife will enter the void"
>>119683282 They used the word for nothingness which is exactly what being released from samsara is. If they have samsara but also have some other void type thing that's different and maybe hell and heaven as well then they're just doing random shit for fun and who cares about anything they say.
>>119683339 Maybe I was wrong to say every viewer figured it out immediately... but I didn't realise there were viewers that still don't know the solution even after being directly told it in the episode itself.
>>119683163 For the first thing, I doubt they actually hang up souls in a freezer, it's just a close analogy. The bartender never directly says that they'll get hung up in a freezer. It seems more like you'll just be stuck in purgatory. Your soul stuck for all eternity.
For the second thing, I'm fairly sure it's probably not all that uncommon since we see it in Death Billiards. It'd probably just be a thing they take into consideration for arbitration.
What I'd be interested in seeing is a person who figures out they're dead before the game even takes place. And then tries to dissect the very nature of the establishment.
That and some combination of accepting purgatory, I wonder if that's how people get their jobs at the Queen Decim.
The black haired girl at the end seemed new to it at the very least.
>>119683381 Even if you're stupid enough to not immediately spot this solution... the butler outright suggests it to them.
If they pull off the trust test and just botch every throw right from the start they automatically tie... since it's obvious from the start that bad things are going to happen if you lose this is the very very obvious solution. It's pretty disappointing if you couldn't get this from the moment you saw it was darts with limited shots and he gave you the rules... but if you still couldn't see it after being told....
Ugh, I must rewatch the episode then. I already forgotten the most of it. But didn't he lose his temper at the end?
>>119683225 I don't see this Queen Decim as a place were you can win anything. Did you even watch it? Machi was the winner of the game.
These little games are nothing but a mean to draw out the inner conflicts that had them troubled before they died and let the participants have a 2nd chance to solve them before they ultimately cease to exist.
>>119683353 I'm just saying that it felt like the girl was the one who got fucked, while the guy continued his existence in another life. Personally, I'd view being taken of of the cycle to be a fate of the worst kind.
>>119683507 Who feels proud, this is basic shit here. Almost every kind of show with games like this (a lot of shows) have solutions exactly like this. Good end is trusting eachother enough to go for the 0pt tie, or to not betray eachother, etc.
>>119683565 >But didn't he lose his temper at the end? He never did, even when he was fighting and after he came back from being dead, and also gave the other guy his elevator spot to give him a second chance at life. Old man had everything he ever wanted.
>>119683780 >Even if you manage to reach a tie, it doesn't mean anything.
So you're literally saying all the games played are meaningless? That the outcome literally doesn't matter and doesn't say anything about any of the characters? That two people working together to go for a tie so neither of them loses would be just as good/bad as what was put on display in Ep1? That they wouldn't be judged differently based on their trust, love, cooperation, etc?
Am I being fucking trolled here? Is this guy still fucking here?
>>119683711 >Thats because you're not a buddhist. >>119683598 >Personally, I'd view being taken of of the cycle to be a fate of the worst kind. That's because you're viewing Buddhism from a secularized western perceptive, despite common belief nirvana isn't annihilationism; Buddhas are immortal and eternal.
To the people talking about winning, clarify your definitions. You're all obviously all on very separate pages.
In the Darts game, there was the possible outcome of a tie. Neither player was smart or savvy enough to immediately realize it however. On average, most people aren't mechanical and cold thinking INTJs who dissect game mechanics and outcomes first thing.
If such an outcome were to happen, then there would be no conflict in the first place. A different decision on where their souls would go would've most likely occurred.
However, not every game can be tied in. Eight Ball is not a game you can draw in. The game keeps going until the eight ball is sunk.
All in all, winning or losing isn't the purpose of these games, merely how the players play in response to hearing their "life" is on the line and the organ shenanigans.
It might even be that the roulette for the games isn't random at all. That the darts game was chosen for the couple for the extra possible outcome of pure cooperation since they were a couple.
>>119683893 >So you're literally saying all the games played are meaningless? >That the outcome literally doesn't matter and doesn't say anything about any of the characters? >That they wouldn't be judged differently based on their trust, love, cooperation, etc? Welcome to the paradox of free will, which has tormented theologians for as long as the idea of predestination has existed.
>>119683870 >The game does matter, it's to serve as a tool for judgement It matter in the way that it makes it easier to judge people when they put their lives on the line. But the result of the game itself is meaningless.
>>119683893 > That two people working together to go for a tie so neither of them loses would be just as good/bad as what was put on display in Ep1? That they wouldn't be judged differently based on their trust, love, cooperation, etc? Just because you cooperate/find a loophole to get a tie doesn't mean you'll be judged positively. And I think that one way or another something is fated to get in the way of any attemps (just like how the husband suddenly became scared and then missed his throw) Everything is made so that you'll reveal your true self, you can't game the system conciously.
>>119684206 >Just because you cooperate/find a loophole to get a tie doesn't mean you'll be judged positively. >And I think that one way or another something is fated to get in the way of any attemps (just like how the husband suddenly became scared and then missed his throw) >Everything is made so that you'll reveal your true self, you can't game the system conciously. In which case the entire show is pointless and the criticism of contrived writing is spot on. You're literally telling me nothing matters because it'll just be artificial contrived without any explanation.
>>119684367 >In which case the entire show is pointless and the criticism of contrived writing is spot on. You're literally telling me nothing matters because it'll just be artificial contrived without any explanation. No it is not. Did you even watch Death Billards? There's a character that does a rant like yours and the bartender answers him.
>>119684471 How is it not? Anon is literally saying that the actual game doesn't matter, contrivances will happen to get the desired outcome and they'll be judged accordingly. The game is therefore not at all genuine, it's just smoke and mirrors, there is no chance for redemption, only judgement.
You could literally skip the game and have the guy announce the results of their lives and explain why they got the judgement they got. At least that would be more engaging to hear character's life stories rather than a single moment in someone's life with characters we've known for a half episode.
If that's the case then why should anyone watch this show at all? Since it's all about the games and the games don't matter?
>>119684212 Doesn't have to be complex shenanigans to tie. Trickery is unneeded. Just the will to go for it. The couple in the episode however didn't even consider it. Which makes them a bit stupid, but still.
It is the very act of both players cooperating and playing passively that will create the tie outcome if it is possible. In the air hockey game, both players simply need to wait for time to run out. In a ping pong game though, there would be no such option.
In the case of the darts game, what was really telling was that the bartender actively suggested playing passively after the husband confronted him. Instead of keeping a purely observatory stance. He was actively looking for what they would do in the end.
On the line of thought, there was also a third possible outcome. Self-sacrifice. Well a fourth as well, sudden betrayal. Depends on who goes last. A winning player who has the last dart could throw his dart at the other's board, or a losing player with the last dart could just go for the win right at the end suddenly stealing the game.
Considering how few and vague the rules are I'm pretty sure you could cooperate/tie/both-win almost every game they present no matter the game. If you go into the game assuming the usual standard rules then, one, you're stupid, and two, you're going to end up dying or killing your loved one.
The only real point of the bartender guy pointing out the tie strategy was to explicitly tell it to the viewers. There was literally no reason for him to mention it, and even lots of reasons why he shouldn't (interfering with the test). So to pretend that the tie/cooperation strategies won't be important in this series at all is a bit of a stretch. If it's just supposed to be a bunch of games with human suffering a loss left right and center then they wouldn't hint at this stuff, he just wouldn't have said anything because it would be superfluous.
>>119684631 >How is it not? Anon is literally saying that the actual game doesn't matter, contrivances will happen to get the desired outcome and they'll be judged accordingly. The players still have the possibility to change the results, they don't have the possibility of doing whatever the fuck and game the system, but they can change the original predetermined result. THIS IS CLEARLY SPELLED OUT FOR YOU IN DEATH BILLARDS. The young guy changed fate by knocking out the old man and his rant at the end probably played an important part on how he was judged. And in Darts Machiko was always meant to win the game (hence the 360° no scope bullseye at the end) but her rant at the end clearly changed the judgment.
>>119684789 >you're going to end up dying or killing your loved one This show isn't about people in relationships being judged against one another, the married couple wound up in it together because they died at the same time.
This could be a really good series if they: 1 - Focus on characters who we care about instead of one shot characters introduced in the episode they are 'removed' in. 2 - Explain the metaphysics/contrivances satisfactorially. 3 - Get significantly less predictable in the storytelling from Ep 2 on.
>>119684910 What are the word for word stated rules? You're speaking as though all the normally agreed upon rules are just assumed. Clearly not the case in this show as they made an explicit point to show that rules not explicitly stated don't exist and moves that don't interfere with the explicitly stated rules are legal.
>>119685013 >2 - Explain the metaphysics/contrivances satisfactorially. Eh, I'm hoping they don't go too crazy with the exposition. Stuff like this always falls flat if it doesn't leave at least a little up to the viewer's imagination.
>>119685221 It's one thing if they show magic happening because then you can just go 'Well it's magic'. But they show nothing happening, it's not like he is manipulating their memories, it just happens at the perfect time for no reason. That kinda needs to be explained, if only by 'I was doing magic that the camera didn't see'.
>>119684789 "Play like your life is on the line". What if tie means death to you both. Would you take the risk? You don't even know that other dude, and you are sure to win this game, and if he dies, it's not really your fault, right?
>>119685516 >>119685498 If you're just going to assume this wouldn't have worked then we could just assume that purposely tying darts would respawn the darts 'because there can't be a tie or no-game'. Therefore no game can be tied at all just becasue fuck you.
Was asked for a method to tie, it's a method to tie.
If you're going to invent unstated rules to eliminate that specific case then you're not really playing fair. There's no reason to suspect breaking the eight ball wouldn't cause a no-contest, just like breaking all the darts or missing or all the darts. If there was such a reason it equally applies to every other game as well, including darts, and anyone could argue if they hypothetically drawed they would be eaten by rates because fuck them.
>>119685318 I'm content to assume that dying has a negative effect on your ability to remember things, and that the conveniently timed flashbacks represent memories being jogged by whatever's happening in the game.
I don't really need to have the precise mechanism exposited, like you lose your memories when your soul crosses the river Lethe to reach the underworld or whatever.
(That being said, the promo material said something about Queen's job involving editing the memories of the deceased, so we may actually get that spelled out at some point.)
>>119685874 >I'm content to assume that dying has a negative effect on your ability to remember things, and that the conveniently timed flashbacks represent memories being jogged by whatever's happening in the game. Thats the problem though. If you assume that is what happening then it's just so completely contrived. Every single little memory jog just happened at the exact right time, and forgetting in the first place worked against them completely. Add in the tussle somehow managing to exactly throw it on the heart, and the random pain managing to throw it on the double eye... and 'Well it COULD happen" just isn't enough anymore. I need some fucking magic at least.
>>119685910 Even if there are remains how do you play with it? Either it's a no game and thus a draw/tie. Or there is some method of exploiting the way of playing with the remains to get a draw/tie (either destroying them in a way that the rules can't decide what to play with, or destroying it in a way that both players can pot the eight ball).
All of this, however, requires extra unstated rules be introduced.
>>119685791 That's not a method for producing a tie, it's a method for creating a situation the rules don't cover.
The usual procedure for dealing with that is to appeal to a referee or arbiter (in this case, Decim) for a spot ruling. In the case of the destroyed 8-ball, he might declare a tie, but he's at least as likely to produce a new 8-ball and call for play to continue.
And even if my solution is bullshit there are surely many others. If you're read umineko or watched any of the mindgame bullshit or NGNL or any of that you'll notice that writers have a way of thinking of special ways of getting out of stuff that you'd never think of. The idea that "OH it's billiards so they're definitely fucked" is just exactly what they want you to think for when some genius asshole character comes in and solves it with ease.
I'm glad that the next episode looks like it won't be a repeat of the first and the special. It's a good formula for a bit, but it seems like it would get a little tiring if I had to watch a whole cour of it.
>>119686341 >Anyway, the first game wasn't connected to organ pain. It kind of was, although it was unclear if anything really happened when the balls were pocketed, or the young man was just freaking out and imagining things.
>>119686402 I think anon is laboring under the assumption that achieving a game state that's not covered by the rules must result in the game ending in an indeterminate result (which he further assumes is equivalent to a tie).
As you point out, this is generally not the case unless there's a rule which says, "If something happens to fuck up the game, it's a tie." The more customary result is, "If something happens to fuck up the game, it's a rematch" or "If something happens to fuck up the game, the ref decides how to proceed."
>>119676359 I get it, the game itself is not important, how people act during the game is who count, that why the wife was sent to void even after win compared to the husband sending to reencarnation since he was the honest
>>119692132 Sorry, wasn't really clear. I just finished watching it; the old man and the wife both had the red mask. The young man and the husband both had the white mask. The white mask is reincarnation. I don't want to get screencaps but if you look back the masks will change their appearance according to where each party is going.
the games represent the circles of hell Drinking represents humanities struggle to forget pain Dancing 40 year old woman dressed as a schoolgirl represents the fear of loneliness The strings represent humanity being led along to their fate The loli represents gods completely random and incomprehensible nature
>>119692715 reincarnation why the fuck would I want void the only people who want that are pathetic pieces of shit who can't handle anything. Just because there is no more suffering there is no more joy or fun. If people want to end their suffering so much for their existence they could have just offed themselves the second they felt sad. At least with reincarnation you can make it up for all your mistakes sure you will screw up but that's the great thing about life.
>>119693206 >you can make it up for all your mistakes You won't remember anything, so you won't make up for anything. For your current I, there's not difference between reincarnation and the void. It will vanish in either case.
>>119694594 >>119695431 It helps that its an original anime instead of it being based off of some shitty manga and vn. Which gets shit for not being the same as the original and people don't discuss it much since they already been spoiled to shit. At least with these shows you have something to talk about besides seeing the same best girl shit.
>>119694594 You've been here for a really small frame of time, then. (Almost) every original anime gets good threads. Last season Yuuki Yuuna threads were both fun and informative. This season, Yuri Kuma also has good threads along with this. No matter what it is, being a original anime will always generate better threads since there are no spoilers and we must speculate to reach anywhere.
I'm watching Death Billiards right now and I just noticed that the old man and the younger man didn't die at the same time. The older man died in the day while the younger man died at night. Does this get explained later on? I thought the pair that plays the game has to die at the exact same time.
>>119696318 Just watch its there isn't much quality issues so there wouldn't be much of a point. Also you are gonna miss a bunch of discussion and if wait for the bd I am pretty sure you are gonna be annoyed you will have no one to talk about it with. >>119696360 All those people in the cast look like they are all from a different country so maybe once you are dead you can understand them regardless.
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