She lied to allow her husband to keep some dignity. The ring is SYMBOLISM for her love in him, before she decides to go off on him, she stares at her hand and decides to keep the ring on her finger. The flashback is a lie, the cake is a lie, everything is a lie.
>>119627846 This, it's pretty grey area. In the end i think Machiko did had an affair, hell Machida Yuki was invited and supposedly married, why wouldn't she take her husband name if she hated her own one? But she acted like a bad guy and overreacted about hating her husband to save him, we saw her happy with him in her flashbacks.
1# Machiko was Matchy all along, but she actually fell in love with Takashi and reveals everything, albait in a way to make him hate her and be free.
2# Machiko was Matchy all along, she never loved him, but after seeing that her actions brought Takashi's madness and the situation they ere in she decides to reveal everything. Hating herself she does it in the worst way for her.
I'm more inclined to believe the first because the flashbacks though.
I'm definitely giving this series a three episode try. If every episode is just going to be the same concept over and over again, it won't be worth watching. That being said I like the atmosphere. EVERYBODY~
>>119628569 That's why i say it's kind of gray area, guy was fucking asshole all the time, he was the first one to give into the idea of wining the game, given of course he was the one under the pressure since he had more points, if Machiko was in his shoes maybe she would try to score even earlier, we have no way to know it. And she had an affair, both of them were remorseful about those things though, guy couldn't stand the idea of killing his old child, machiko was crying in the bed. In the end she took the blame and acted like the big bad to make him go to heaven/reaincarnate, even though she could easily keep the lie and just push the blame on him for wanting to kill her and baby.
>>119628793 I'm more inclined to believe she was a cheating whore because they outright state in the end that the guy went to reincarnate and the girl went to the "void", whatever that means and since the void elevator has a demon's face thing on it, I'm guessing it's supposed to be the bad one.
>>119629050 But we don't know what predetermines who goes where, in Death Billiards gramps went into elevator with oni mask which would imply void, even though the younger guy was an asshole, and remember that gramps said something to decim before they got into their elevators, what if the will of players decides the outcome of this? It would fall in line with Machiko actions, because she acted as villain to save her husband, while gramps, content with hiss life ended his, and let just 30 years old one reincarnate.
>>119629050 My theory is that the winner is really the loser. Where the husband just got reincarnated again, but Machiko finally has to face judgement on where her soul ends up, and those bodies behind the bar are those stuck in purgatory.
>>119629009 >In the end she took the blame and acted like the big bad to make him go to heaven/reaincarnate, even though she could easily keep the lie and just push the blame on him for wanting to kill her and baby. Why would heaven punish anyone for doing a supposedly good thing?
And she also could have been telling the truth about her and Matchy being different people and just lied about having an affair because she knew Takashi couldn't handle the thought of having killed his own baby. Twice.
Though I guess if that were the case it wouldn't really make sense that she got voided, unless the judgement either doesn't know or doesn't count your reasoning over your words and actions.
>>119628731 >go to hell and suffer horribly Unless there was a serious mistranslation, she was sent to the void. Meaning her soul doesn't get another go while his does.
They both did terrible things, but at his core he just wanted to start a family while she was using him for his money. His goal was noble, it just got fucked up by the details. That's why he deserves another shot at getting it right while she doesn't.
>>119629937 >she was using him for his money This may not be true, though. In the end, she and Gramps had the same mask above their elevators, and Gramps wasn't exactly a bad guy, while the Young Guy was obviously an asshole.
>>119630086 The entire premise is just begging for x did nothing wrong threads. That's an open invitation for moralfags and contrarianfags to go at it.
I hope the last episode reveals that the outcome of the game is all that matters and that everything surrounding it doesn't play a role at all. Then we can all look back and laugh at how stupid we were for overthinking this shit.
>>119630349 >I hope the last episode reveals that the outcome of the game is all that matters and that everything surrounding it doesn't play a role at all. lol no, these shows are chicken soup for the peasant soul.
>>119630383 No? The worst thing his flashbacks show is him bullying some guy and that's it. Meanwhile, the other one cheated on his girlfriend, got killed for it and then tried to kill Gramps after realizing that he's losing.
>>119630466 He did the 'hand slip' thing before that even came up. He told her to keep missing so he could pull a clever ruse and win. Her hand slip was more believable because she coughed up blood at the time. He was afraid to die before revenge took hold of him.
>>119630268 >Japanese wedding customs fall into two categories: traditional Shinto ceremonies, and modern Western-style weddings. In either case, the couple must first be legally married by filing for marriage at their local government office, and the official documentation must be produced in order for the ceremony to be held. Then you eat, drink, socialize Then you finally cut the cake.
>>119630876 Why would the bride have a nameplate at their own marriage ceremony/dinner? Usually the bride and groom sits on the "main" table which at the front of the very room. Only the guests usually have nameplates.
>>119630532 Why are you trying to shut down discussion over the matter?
She cheated. Cheating is a shit thing to do. It generates a negative reaction.
I'm not sure how much shitflinging when on in previous threads, but that's all there is to it to for me. She's a bad person (as a character) because of it, I don't know why you'd defend or gloss over it.
>>119631149 It was basically baseless as he had no real evidence beyond >two girls said something in our wedding >SHE'S ALWAYS USING HER PHONE That's paranoia. He may have been right, but he had no proof.
The void is where your soul goes to think about what you did for all eternity, that is in no way a good thing. It'd be like floating in space with nothing to look at or do, you feel nothing but remember everything.
>>119630889 Life is an endless cycle of suffering. An old soul must bear the suffering of endless lifetimes. Until his soul can undo its fundamental flaws that lead it to suffering he will never have a happy life and will never be free.
She was able to let go of her need for manipulation and winning in the end. She was able to come clean and be honest while he couldn't bring himself to really trust her, even after death. He may have been right, but his only proof was that he couldn't trust the woman he loved. Someone who can't do that can never be happy.
>>119631508 >an accident No, it was him being a retard while driving, if he had just slipped while arguing or something it would have been an accident, but he even tooke his hands of the wheel. He fucked up really hard and feels completely responsible for it, reason the wife has to start her >I never loved you talk, because he broke.
>>119631551 >GODDAMN WHY IS THAT OP SO FUNKY And out of place. I'm not a grimdark faggot, but having watched Death Billiards and then being to be put under such a joyous beat and dancing made me worry.
And the ending, oh, the ending, was a miserable attempt to make us care about the couple.
Yes, but everything in life doesn't matter when you're dead. So even if he reincarnated and died in poor health as an infant, that might actually be enough for him to go to heaven instead, as long as he's not being bad whilst alive.
He gets a chance to redeem his soul, while the wife doesn't.
It's like playing a really fucking hard game with everything you could want as the reward and then losing at the end, reincarnation would be starting again, and void would be pulling the plug and never getting to play again, losing the chance to win.
You can't win if you don't try, you don't get to try if you're never given the chance to.
>>119631438 It's more like where you become one with god/the universe itself and gain a connection to every living thing. Your individuality gives way to the greater whole and you rejoin the pervasive cosmic existence. It's a good thing.
>>119631589 It's call negligent homicide. It's an accident that comes from being stupid.
>>119631735 >And the ending, oh, the ending, was a miserable attempt to make us care about the couple. No, it was to show us what they lost. And, of course, the glorious and based shot of Machida Yuuki's card telling us the truth. I tmight be that the ED whole purpose is to show us that card scene.
A second chance to do what? Make the same mistakes again? Suffer through the same inevitable pains that plague every life, no matter how privileged? He lost the game, so now he has to suffer through another round.
>>119632042 The soul is what builds karma over hundreds and thousands of lives and years. Dying once instantly out of the womb as a chinese baby doesn't mean you attained enlightenment, it just means you didn't go in the red for that life.
It's not even about redemption, "redemption" is irrelevant unless you manage to fuck up so many lives that they actually send you to their hellish purgatory. The state of nirvana aka enlightenment is a state where you desire nothing, your spirit is max level and you don't need anything form the earthly world. So nothingness is pretty much the end game.
This is probably the 10th time I have tried to say that in these threads, it would be a lot fucking easier if half you dumb niggers would just read the wikipedia on buddhism for like five minutes.
Judging by the episodes we have to watch and by what i've been told in this thread about reincarnation and buddha, it seems that the Husband and the young man in each respective episode were reincarnated. By the end of each episode, the Wife and the old man both seem to accept the mistakes they've made, and are at peace with their lives. But on the other hand, the Husband and young man are both in a state of chaos, and general nonacceptance of how things turned out. Therefore the Husband and young man are given another chance at life, and are reincarnated, while the old man and wife are sent to the void, and become one with the world.
Has nobody picked up on the Funi's mistranslation? When the sluts are talking about Matchy in the bathroom one of them says:
>旦那さん、また医者だってよ >Danna-san, mata isha datte yo
Which got translated as "I hear her husband is a doctor." when it should have been "I hear her husband is a doctor 'again'.", as if implying that this wasn't the first doctor she'd been with and possibly not her first doctor she was marrying with.
This could mean that Machida Yuuki divorced the doctor she married initially and is going to marry another doctor sometime after the main couple's wedding, thus invalidating >>119624375.
Cheating is bad, loyalty is important. Me as an enlightened human beeing very much see loyalty as an important trait, the girl deserved eternal darkness in the void and the guy deserves another life where he can be enlightened like me and count loyalty as his #1 priority.
>>119631951 What you think about reincarnation doesn't have any impact on what Buddhism says about it. On the other hand, what Buddhism says about reincarnation might have a big impact on how the show expects us to interpret it.
>>119633134 >what Buddhism says about reincarnation might have a big impact on how the show expects us to interpret it. Oh what Buddhism says about reincarnation might have absolutely nothing to do with how reincarnation is approached in the show.
>>119631847 It's not you fucking moron, reincarnation is something that every single living soul has do thousands of times to achieve enlightenment. The "second coming" of buddhism is literally just waiting for eons until every life in existence reincarnates enough times to becomes one with the universe, since there is no "herp you failed nigga, sorry" like in western religions.
You keep coming back, forever and ever, even when you fuck up badly enough to get sent to purgatory you come out of that too with enough time UNTIL YOU GET IT RIGHT AND ASCEND TO SPACE WITH YOUR BUDDHA BROS NIGGA
The elevators were at first referred to as Heaven (天国) or Hell (地獄). These are specifically Heaven and Hell as everyone knows them. Although in Shinto, only the gods live in Heaven, EVERYONE else goes to Hell. Like in Dragon Ball Z. Technically you go to Hell but there's a nice part of Hell where Goku goes and the really shitty part of Hell where Freiza lives. Also it's the same as Greek Mythology where the underworld has the Fields of Asphodel.
I'm guessing they're using the Christian versions for this show (these words in Japanese are also used to refer to Christian heaven or hell). So Heaven=good and Hell=bad
Later Decim refers to them as Reincarnation (転生) and Void （虚無）. Reincarnation is reincarnation as anyone knows it, but Void isn't the one that Buddhism uses, Buddhism refers to the Void as Kuu (空). This Void （虚無） specifically refers to literal nothingness. Like pre Big Bang nothingness. It's also used to refer to Nihilism which is the belief that life is meaningless in a bad way. Buddhism often does get mixed up with Nihilism but it really isn't the same thing. And I really don't want to get into this part so lets just skip it.
So what ultimately happened to Michiko, like everything, is ambiguous. We need to wait for the show to explain what the Void is. The Void is probably if anything, a special anime only thing. Like the thing behind the bar could be the Void for all we know, it was pretty spooky.
>>119633150 >>119633329 I'm not trying to argue in favor or against her. I just thought it was a relevant fact for the discussion. The mistranslation is a fact, not me "reaching" for anything. By the way, I think she might have cheated, but I also think she was telling the truth about Matchy.
>>119631093 They can only go in pairs though, and not every single person who has ever died goes through the bar. Also didn't the pope say fetuses have souls once they are infused with blood or some shit
>>119633254 I certainly wouldn't be saying 'A second chance to do what? Make the same mistakes again? Suffer through the same inevitable pains that plague every life, no matter how privileged?' otherwise, because we have absolutely no idea if Buddhist reincarnation has anything to do with the show.
So Anonymous, do you find the idea of living to be a hassle or not? I'm actually interested.
The way I see it the guy gets sent back because his spirit still needs to live more before it's ready to ascend, while the woman, who put his own well being before hers at the last minute, by lying to protect him proved to have matured enough and overcome the petty mundane existence the man was still stuck to.
>>119633616 Since these are funi-subs, which are almost always shit-tier, what word did she use for "the void" anyways? How did FFF or other groups translate it? Because Buddhism has the equivalent of hell, so did she mean that or whatever that place is called after you break away from the cycle or something else unrelated to buddhism?
>>119634133 the word for void in Buddhism is 空, the word they use in the show is 虚無. 空 is Sunyata, 虚無 is literal fucking nothingness.
Buddhist hell is called Naraka which is a literal hell for karma Sinners.
And why do people keep saying the void is a place in Buddhism? There is no Void in the six realms of existence. The Void refers to an empty state.
>Śūnyatā, (Sanskrit, also shunyata; Pali: suññatā), in Buddhism, translated into English as emptiness, voidness, openness, spaciousness, vacuity, is a Buddhist concept which has multiple meanings depending on its doctrinal context. In Theravada Buddhism, suññatā often refers to the not-self (Pāli: anatta, Sanskrit: anātman)[note 1] nature of the five aggregates of experience and the six sense spheres. Suññatā is also often used to refer to a meditative state or experience.
>>119633825 Yes, but the chinese cartoons make it worth it. I've not been able to free myself from that desire and it always leads me to suffering when I read your posts. Maybe Buddha was right all along.
The point is that Machiko regretted it, learned her lesson, and grew as a person Her sin is greater but she moved past it and won't make the same mistake again. This is why she gets nirvana and he doesn't. He didn't do anything wrong except attempt murder but he still couldn't get past his hang ups.
>>119634438 >So what ultimately happened to Michiko, like everything, is ambiguous. We need to wait for the show to explain what the Void is. The Void is probably if anything, a special anime only thing.
>>119634431 Cheating does not get you a ticket to nirvana, and she went to the void, not nirvana, brahman, or whatever. Just by the sound of it you can hear that the 'void' is not a positive thing (for her).
>>119633463 Are you positive it means 'again' and not 'too'? If they said 'too' at the end it could mean Matchy always gets the best deals, like husband being a doctor and her main men being really handsome. It also fits with what Takashi says 'You have never lost, did you?' meaning she always, always plays to win.
>>119634170 No? There are a bunch of different branches, and some might say you need to follow their teachings to reach enlightenment, but the fundamental truth that life is suffering is something that anyone can see. It's what leads people to follow the teachings in the first place.
>>119634431 This. The sins she committed while alive are irrelevant when we're talking about reincarnation. The only thing that matters is her spirit, which, given that reincarnation is a thing in that world, exists beyond her mundane, physical self.
Wasn't the game in Death Billiards rigged from the start? Maybe this was too with in favor of the wife but her sudden outburst made the bartender guy reconsider his decision. He looked pretty shocked when it happened.
>>119634700 Yes, I'm positive. The phrase can't be interpreted in the way you suggested. Regardless of who Matchy is, there were at least two doctors in Matchy's life, one of them is either married or engaged to her at that point in time, and there's a decent chance the previous one was married to her too.
My interpretation is that Machiko made up the Matchy story and she really did cheat on her husband. Whoever wins the game goes into the void and whoever loses gets reincarnated. bad winner: goes to bad void (nothingness) bad loser: reincarnated into bug good winner: goes to good void (nirvana) good loser: reincarnated into human
>>119635050 Its the obvious interpretation given the buddhist imagery present throughout the entire thing. The closest thing to the void in buddhist imagery would be nirvana, especially considering its being juxtaposed with reincarnation. You're really stupid if you can't see that.
I believe that's the entire caveat. The "casino" is basically the universe's idea of a joke. The only people who ever get sent there are those that die at the same time. Obviously, they have more visitors during times of war or during times of plague, but if we assume that it's taking place in a universe similar to our own, there's really not a whole lot of that going around these days. At least, not in Japan anyway.
>>119634975 Or it could be she only dates doctors, as in being a gold digger, and this one just happened to hit it off. Does 'again' refer to her being married or the guy she's going to marry happens to be a doctor 'again'? But why didn't Takashi got surprised Machiko married before if she thought she was Matchy?
The 'too' in "her main is handsome too" is different?
She was lying when she kept saying it was her husband's baby. Actually, she was lying when she said she had a baby in the first place. It was just her trying to keep hubby from going homicidal. There was no baby or other man. She thought she made a gamble in her favor but damn was she wrong. Hubby was making paranoid assumptions and she was trying to fix her mistake but she just kept making it worse. The final straw was when hubby said he didn't think it was his baby, then she snapped. She can't believe he would think that and her anger makes her disregard every mistake she made trying to calm her husband. All she feels is anger and disbelief. She's hurt. You know what she does next? She tries to hurt him back real good and she did a hell(lol) of a good job with that. Now it all comes to an end. She's now a slut and her husband is an insane almost murderer(they're already dead though). You could also say it was husband who should've got sent to the void because they wouldn't be dead in the first place if he hadn't reached over to grab wife's phone. Though if that was the case, they wouldn't have had the game in the first place.
Or maybe it happened exactly the way it was shown to happen and we're all just retarded.
>>119635270 We should take every flash back scene as truth because there's really no reason for them to be lies. The flashbacks are them regaining their memories. She was definitely preggo. I personally think it wasn't his child in the first place. Everyone knows the MC never gets his NTR waifu pregnant.
>>119635651 The overarching mechanism is likely going to be directly jacked from one religion. The bar is just an offshoot. Find me significant christian imagery or islamic or jewish in the show if you think its just a giant mix. Even void is "new", so its certainly not supportive of it being a mix. If its not directly jacked from buddhism, its almost certainly an interpretation thats slightly altered in its overall form as opposed to some vague mixture.
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