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How has it been 20 years without another...
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How has it been 20 years without another anime as philosophical as evangelion?

what does this mean for the anime medium?
>>
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>Implying Madoka wasn't twice as deep as NGE
>>
This has to be bait because you can't actually be this stupid.

If you want a philosophical (and actually good overall from start to finish) anime, watch Tatami Galaxy.
>>
it was 0.62% philosophical and 99.38% shinji being a bitch
>>
>>119513609
>eva
>deep
pick one
>>
>>119513794
tatami galaxy isnt philosophical

it's pretty much just an f scott fitzgerald book
>>
There is no such thing as a philosophical anime.
>>
>>119513769
madoka is pseudointellectual whereas evangelion is actually intellectual
>>
>>119513892
why not?

you have philosophical books
you have philosophical films
you have philosophical music

but what about anime?
>>
>>119514082
I can't name one even if I wanted, that's all.
>>
>>119514247
Evangelion
>>
>>119514247
>literally 20 different animes, not counting movies
>>
>>119514310
That's psychological, silly boya.
>>
>philosophical
It just repeats what said dead guys said nearly a hundred years ago. It brings absolutely new to the table. It might be called for philosophical in comparison to other anime, but it is not a philosophical anime.
>>
>>119513609
advertisements aren't supposed to be deep, they're only supposed to look cool and sell merch
>>
INB4 a torrent of people crying '2deep4u' while failing to realize Evangelion was probably actually 2deep4them
>>
>>119513978
>pseudo intellectual
God I don't even like madoka but you're retarded.

What makes NGE not pseudo?
>>
>>119514496
>advertisements
What the hell, man. Some merch doesn't make a show an advertisement on the same level as the latest shounen battle adaptation. Advertisement is officially a buzzword now.
>>
>>119514530
madoka tried to be intellectual
evangelion just was intellectual
>>
>>119514466

You might as well as say the same for stories in general. It's how you dress up the skeleton of ideas, the execution, that gives old notions new light.
>>
>>119514660
But it didn't offer any new light at all, which is the problem. Everything it offered had already been said.
>>
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>>119513609
>philosophical
>>
Eva is an intellectual anime. You need to have an IQ above double digits to 'get it', not much of an accomplishment but intellectual by the standards of most other anime.

It's not a philosophical anime. There are presciently zero philosophical anime. This should be obvious if you ever read a philosophical book even badly. The medium simply doesn't handle it well. Philosophy is very hard to explain, even in non-fiction books its a task to get the point across clearly.
>>
>>119513978
>madoka is pseudointellectual
Madoka doesn't even try to be intellectual, so it obviously can't be pseudointellectual.
>>
The ``philosophical'' nonsense in eva was a disgrace. The less of that shit the better.
>>
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>>119513609
Have you seen Ergo Proxy?

If this anime was a person, it would shit philosophy from his ass.
>>
>>119513609
I hate you eva fags so much. I can only hope that one day you all get some kind of anus cancer. That way, the rest of the world will be spared the homosexual torrent that falls out of your mouths and anuses.
>>
>2015
>still making bait threads
>>
>>119515154

I doubt therefore I think, I think therefore I am.
>>
test
>>
>>119515187

>being this butthurt just because you failed to understand Evangelion

2deep4u?
It's ok, go back to watching DBZ.
>>
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>How has it been 20 years without another anime as philosophical as evangelion?
>>
>>119513609

Serial Experiments Lain
Madoka (though it kind of fucks it up at some points)

That's all I can think of.
>>
>>119515310
Needs K-On
>>
>>119515310

>no Madoka
>no Lain
>no Ghost in the Shell
>>
>>119513609
I think it's more symbolic and Jungian/Freudian than philosophical. If it was philosophical it would be more complex or possibly much more simpler..
>>
>>119515359
Agreed no show made me feel more than that one.
>>
>>119515310
Wait.

What the fuck is the difference between cinema and film?
>>
FLCL
>>
>>119513609
>shinji being a bitch
>daddy issues
>rei being an autist
>muh tsun tsun hidden feelings
>philosophical
>>
>>119515541
Don't mind that. Autists gonna aut.
>>
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>>119514727

I'm not talking about the ideas themselves being furthered. An expression of old ideas in a new and different context, that's what majority of stories have been for a very long time when you get pass the very specifics at the surface of the content.

Compare Mind Game to Tatami Galaxy, if you've seen them, similar and dissimilar.
>>
>>119515594
That's a horrible post, Eva isn't philosophical, but none of that precludes an anime from being so.
>>
>>119513609
>20 years without another anime as philosophical as evangelion?

The Wapanese animu industry realized that it can't sell "turning the audience into their psychiatrist whilst the creators and directors are on the couch."

Madoka succeeded because of the Urabutcher and SHAFT. Nobody else but maybe Unicorn Gundam.
>>
>>119513609
because philosophical television isn't all that profitable, of course. Anime isn't film, there's no community of rich weirdos funding less rich weirdos to make weird movies.
>>
>>119515310
How surprising considering that there are probably like 1000 times more movies than anime and 1 million times more books.
Also
>No Haibane Renmei, no NieA_7, no Figure 17, no Princess Tutu
>>
>>119515310
>Lost
Really?
>>
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People exaggerate the "philosophical" and "psychological" parts of Eva too much. The best parts are always just the action scenes
>>
>>119515754
Read that chart again.
>>
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>>119515541
>What the fuck is the difference between cinema and film?
>>
>>119513609
You forgot Utena, Boku no Pico and Space Dandy.
>>
>>119515748
How many episodes of Princess Tutu before I go watch it on auto pilot? the first few eps are a bit of a drag (but not bad by any means)...
>>
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>>119515310
>Lost
>GoT
>>
>>119515819
What's your point?
>>
>>119515821
That is retarded.
>>
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>>119515310
>>
>>119515541
Cinem is the industry, film is the material and movie is the product
>>
>>119515310
>only one meme book under lit
Come on, man.
>>
>>119515855
Not many, the first few are a bit episodic, it gets more captivating over time. The last episodes of the first and especially the second half are absolutely fantastic.
>>
>>119513609
I love eva buts its not really "philosophical"
It has introspection of its characters but that doesn't make it philosophical.
>>
ping pong
>>
>>119515953
I trust you, so I'll soldier on.
>>
>>119516043
It wasn't very philosophical. It was good though.
>>
>>119513609
>muh mature intellectual animes for mature intellectuals like myself
>anime needs to be art
>>
>>119513609
If you want deep shit, the gospel according to /a/ seems to think this is the next great white hope.
>>
>>119516194
/a/ and /v/ constantly seek validation
>>
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>>119513855
>>
>>119515310
The Great Gatsby is shit though
>>
>>119516194
There's many anime out there, what's the big deal if some of them try to appeal to a demographic different from yourself? It's not like every show is trying to be like Eva or anything, Give it a break.
>>
>>119516291
If I'm not smart, I'm not a valuable man :(
>>
>>119516320
Which books do you consider top-tier?
>>
>>119516380
The Hunger Games obviously
>>
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I am designing a tabletop game in the spirit of NGE (unrelated to AdEva). I'm looking for some feedback in terms of how to proceed. Here are a few questions:

1. Do you think each character represented a specific social/human flaw? If so, which one(s)?
2. What caused evangelion and pilot to synch better, love, hate, or something else?
3. Generally speaking, did social interaction effect battle performance? Can you site specific examples if possible?
4. If you have to categorize the three main pilots (Shinji, Rei, Asuka), who "grew" the most during the course of the show? Was it a positive or negative growth?
5. What aspect of Evangelion did you enjoy the most?

You don't need to answer everything (disregard if you already seen this). Feedback is highly encouraged though! Thanks.
>>
>>119513609
I love Evangelion, but please. Lain, Kaiba, Stand Alone Complex, Texhnolyze, Haibane Renmei, Shoujo Kakumei Utena. Also, Eva might be psychological but it's not philosophical.
>>
>>119514247
Watch more anime.
>>
>>119516380
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
>>
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>avoidant personality disorder and judeo-christean symbolisms: The anime
>intellectual

hehe moefags don't know about my superior cortex
>>
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>>119516380
From /lit/
>>
>>119516506
Nice /lit/ meme. I suggest Infinite Jest.
>>
>>119516506
So that I can get a better sense of your reading habits, what else?
>>
>>119516290
>according to /a/
/a/ is not a hivemind, and yuribears threads are filled with /u/ scum
>>
>>119516575
But That's also a /lit/ meme. Are /lit/ meme books mutually exclusive with shit books?
>>
>>119516570
>implying Kafka and Wilde are good
>>
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>>119516380
>>119516570
>>
>>119516598
I'm kidding. If anyone ever tells you that's their favorite book, you really need to turn 360 degrees and walk away. No exceptions.
>>
>>119516603
It might not be a hivemind but certain aspects can be over-represented or unanimous in sentiment.
>>
>>119516570
>One Hundred Years of Solitude
>low-tier

Fucking hell
>>
>>119516723
>138 votes
Discarded
>>
>>119516731
I figured as much.
>>
>>119516723
all these books look too old and boring. where are the modern classics?
>>
>>119515310
>Evangelion
>great work of art
>great
>art
PFFFFFFFFffffffffffffffffffff HAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
>>119516796
That's probably a good number, considering activity level. That would be a bad number here, but the amount of unique, constant posters is probably a lot lower there.
>>
>>119516570
>>119516723
massive lack of asimov
>>
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>>119516300
>>
>>119516723
Did you make this list or just agree with it in its entirety?
>>
>>119516884
>138 votes
>100 books
That means the number one book was chosen by like 5 people.
>>
>>119516379
> :(
>>
>>119516449
1. They represented different ways people use to escape from reality. They can be assigned to specific psychological disorders if that's what you mean.
2. Stability. You could have something like "sanity" in Cthulhu which would make it easier to synch with an Eva.
2. Well, this depends on the type of interaction. Healthy interactions helped, sure.
4. Rei had the most spread-out, consistent growth. Shinji grew the most in the end but it was pretty fast, basically during instrumentality, same for Asuka probably.
5. The atmosphere, you've got surreal looking aliens, kabalistic illuminati, bio-mecha and all the talking-inside-the-mind stuff. It's weirdness got me hooked from the start. That and the well-developed characters, which is the main reason the series was so much better than the rebuilds.
>>
>>119516949
I see, disregard.
>>
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>>119516885
Science fiction isn't literature.
>>
>>119516723
>>119516570
These charts contradict each other. Not much of a surprise, since it comes from /lit/ - Fedora Wearing Faggotry
>>
>>119516723
>gatsby
>catcher in the rye
>1984 instead of We
>pottershit
>paradise lost, the Ilidad being that low

confirmed for all kinds of shit taste/10
>>
>>119516938
Neither.
>>
>>119516723
>Harry Potter Series
uh
>>
>>119516603
>says /a/ isnt a hivemind
>calls /u/ a hivemind
>>
>>119516949
If it was a preferential or ranking type of voting, it's not as bad as you think. It's still not a very good number though.
>>
>>119516998
1984, Atlas Shrugged, and Brave New world are all science fiction and /lit/ loves those apparently
>>
>>119516998
How does it feel being so wrong about something?
>>
>>119516998
>Theater
>Posts CM Punk
Try a little harder next time Quentin.
>>
>>119516570
don quixote was a nice trip
>>
>>119517008
But wasn't the list posted in reply to >>119516380
>>
>>119517001
>not liking Harry Potter
>>
>>119516780
Eyup, there are definitely disproportionately loud and obnoxious shards here.
>>
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>>119517066
Pro wrestling is contemporary theatre.
>>
>>119513609
Bitch pls, Ghost in the Shell beats everything.
>>
>>119517051
How it Atlas Shrugged science fiction? Muh metal?
>>
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>>119513609
Anon pls
>>
>>119517046
Nice reading comprehension, m8
>>
>>119517100
Oops. Meant only to reply to >>119516723
>>
>>119517114
>thinking the Potter series is literature
nice b8 though
>>
>>119516780
That's true, but the general concensus for YuriBears was that it was shit
>>
>>119516723
>The Stranger
>Number 2

This chart is already troll.
>>
>>119517158
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged
>Genre
>Philosophical novel
>Science fiction
>Mystery fiction
>Romance novel
>>
Why everyone loves Don Quijote so much?
Is it possible that I don't appreciate it because as a Spanish student I was forced to read the book in school but I wanted to do something else instead of reading?
>>
>>119517158
Dystopian re-imagining of contemporary society would qualify it
>>
>>119517256
>man fuck literature i wanna play video games :(
>>
>>119516723
>>119516570
Where are the Light Novels? That's what I would call modern art
>>
>>119516998
>/lit/ hates Slaughter-House-5
C'mon, that was a classic
>>
>>119517290
>contemporary
Shouldn't it be futuristic?
>>
>>119517114
H.Pitty is something for Elementary to Middle School students. Beyond that it loses its appeal. It's a good starter fiction series but that's all it is. It's like the Naruto of Fiction.
>>
>>119517192
It is literature - Children's/ Young Adult's literature.
>>
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>>119517331
science fiction and fantasy are not litertarure
>>
>>119517304
Right here son.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjQm1ICjtvA
>>
>>119517214
You can't trust the general consensus of /a/. It's the same plebs who think Kancolle is good.
>>
>>119517291
>implying you wanted to read a dense as fuck book instead of doing something else that your childish mind considered funnier

>inb4 I wanted to read books :^)
I'll never understand the idea behind lying on some anonymous imageboard
>>
>>119517354
See >>119517051
>>
>>119515310
are the books accurate? because i don't read that much and i want to start doing it.
>>
>>119517354
Except Slaughter-House-5's aliens and shit are metaphorical for people trying to escape into there own fantasies
Just like, hey, Evangelion
>>
>>119517304
>Light Novels
>Modern Art

Nigga 95% of anime nowdays can't even be called modern art. It's all cheap commercialism. Light Novels are even worse than that.
>>
>>119517352
Which is precisely why it has no place on a list with actual literature
>>
>>119513609
>>
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>>119513609
>as philosophical as evangelion?
>>
>>119517418
>there

You lost all credibility "there."
>>
>>119517354
the first one is just pretentiously over-written
>>
>>119513609
I always want to contribute to these threads, but she is so hot I always forget about everything else.
>>
>>119517395
nvm
>>
>>119517337
Not necessarily. The "future" may account for the majority of science fiction settings but it doen't have to be its qualifying feature. Wasn't a new kind of metal being developed in Atlas Shrugged that would affect society's industries?
>>
>>119517354
Jesus when does that take place? Is it past the TV series. I don't remember Dany shitting in humility.
>>
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>>119517556
>pretentious
there's the buzzword that idiots use for things they don't understand
>>
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>>119516982
Excellent. First complete response I've received. Much appreciated.
>>
>>119517390
>no response
What's the matter /lit/friend? Having trouble keeping up the mental gymnastics?
>>
>>119517546
Typos happen. In informal settings, language still does its job if the entire message is understood properly.
>>
>>119513609
Haruhi is the Evangelion of anime
>>
>>119517633
Well, Rearden invents "Rearden metal," which is just a new alloy that's "stronger." I don't really think the book emphasizes anywhere near enough technology to be considered science fiction.
>>
>>119513609
Nothing. It happens with any medium.
>>
>>119517633
>>119517778
Oh nevermind, I completely forgot about Galt's motor. Yeah that makes it science-fiction for sure.
>>
>>119517354
>gay
>boring
>>
>>119517778
Each to his own I guess. I'd regard it as a socio-scientific. But you know, the book isn't a pure science fiction novel so I wouldn't be too ready to defend it as belonging to any one genre. It's a decent read and important enough (=/= toptier) and it happens to include science elements, which is why it's hard to ignore when compiling such a list.
>>
>>119517158
For some reason all dystopias get called science fiction when there are no spaceship or anything 'scientific' on them. They should be called political fiction.
>>
>>119516949
/lit/ here. We were asked to rank our 5 favorite books in order. First place received 5 points, second place received 4, and so forth. There are some obvious jokes there, but it constitutes a good deal of what /lit/ discusses.
>>
>>119518147
Well usually dystopias have technology in them to make it a dystopia. But like this guy said >>119518115 it's not any one particular genre. Also, Project X and Galt's motor are definitely sci-fi elements.
>>
>>119517717
Could you tell me more about the project? I love pnp rpgs and I love Evanglion, so I'd be glad to hear more.
>>
>>119517214
>That's true, but the general concensus for YuriBears was [something I pulled from my ass]
>>
>>119513609
It has no philosophical deapth. It was bullshit that he crammed in because it sounded cool and he didnt have any budget left to pay animators. No this doesnt make it a _bad_ anime but understand that there is nothing there to analyze.

Please get over it allready.
>>
>>119514575
Neither of them are intellectual, you're just dense and easily wowed.
>>
>>119518147
>all sci fi is space-related
God fucking damn it.
>>
>>119515788
The original anime ended after an inner dialogue about Shinji's selfhatred and xenophobia. The last 2 episodes had no action. How can you say that the psychological part is valued too much by people even though it ends after Shinji finding his inner peace, without telling us what happened to mankind afterwards? The inner struggle, a psychological conflict, clearly was the main plot of the series.
>>
>>119518147
I'd can dystropias (and to an extent cyberpunk) as anti-scifi. It shows stuff as dirty and down to earth as it is, without wish fulfillment.
>>
>>119518515
For what it's worth, and I'm aware that I could be popping open another can of worms, Sci-fi and science fiction in contemporary prescriptive usage aren't one and the same.
>>
>>119513769
Pseudo intellectualism written by a hack of a writer that is Urobuchi.
>>
>>119518563
That's why the last 2 episodes weren't great, and EoE was a huge improvement to the series.
>>
>>119518319
Not sure how often you browse /tg/, but Adeptus Evangelion, a roleplaying homebrew system for Eva, is fairly popular there. AdEva is a lot more detail oriented with plenty of tables, charts, and player customization. I think it takes it a little too far, with a lesser focus given to storytelling. I want to create something that is more focused on storytelling, player interaction, and character development. Said factors would directly influence evangelion-angel combat.

I have most of the framework worked out, but several particular points I'm going back and forth over. I know the direction I want to go with it, but deciding on how to get there is the real challenge.
>>
>>119518387
Check every Hindsight is 20/20 thread
>>
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>>119514961
>There are presciently zero philosophical anime.
>>
>>119515253
You think therefore I am.
>>
>>119519255
Where will you be releasing your materials? I like rpgs that don't overcomplicate mechanics and focus more on story-telling myself. If you have more questions like the ones you posted, ask away. I'm a bit of an eva-fag actually.
>>
>>119519517
Psychological and philosophical are often conflated in this type of discussion between people who don't know much of either
>>
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>>119519742
I'll make a topic on /tg/, probably late January if everything goes well. After that, probably make a page on 1d4chan.org or something. I'll also run an alpha test about the same time, probably with an online pick-up group.

I know that is a lot of probably, but that's all I have right now. That and an unfinished draft.

In terms of questions, character advancement is one thing I want to explore in a specific manner. One persistent interest is to determine whether or not synchronization ratio will increase/decrease with social interaction, how, and if it will influence anything beyond piloting evas. So opinions on that would be welcome.
>>
>>119520326
Thing is there isn't any direct causality here. Shinji getting friends at school and being accepted definitely helped him become more stable which in term made him a better pilot. But because he got friends he also experienced rejection in the end. When Touji got hurt, he and the rest of his friends in class didn't want anything to do with Shinji. This in turn had a negative effect on him.

Remember though, that mental instability is practically a requirement to be a pilot. Seele wanted kids like that because they knew such kids would in the end bring about the third impact and bring about instrumentality. A stable kid from a healthy family not only wouldn't want to reject his instrumentality but probably wouldn't ever pilot a mecha, because he wouldn't feel the need to prove himself to someone in such a dangerous manner: father (Shinji), protector (Rei), others in general (Asuka). They were all doing it because of certain complexes.
>>
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>>119513609
>Evangelion
>philosophical
>>
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I loved Evangelion back when I watched only like 5 anime, but now I think it's kind of crippled by its dual nature, the big twisty super robot epic and the introspective primal howl of the tortured artist, smashed together into one 26-episode whole. You can't really watch the first half without being reminded of the stuff that came later, and the second half is confined by the mecha setting and can't go all out with the artiness. Later on I saw Lain and Texhnolyze, which had the feel of the second half, and also Nadesico, which had the feel of the first half, and they were all better than Eva. Actually I'm rewatching Eva right now, and I kind of wish I was watching Nadesico instead.
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>>119520823
Good points all around. Mental instability is sort of tied into character archetype. It's either your greatest attribute, or your lowest attribute. For example, great courage could mean greater arrogance and such. I haven't really decided on what effect it will have in the game yet.

As for SR, I was also considering that your character could build in between scenes, or angel attacks, or what have you, representing their general improvement in piloting an eva. But since SR is also tied into mental state, I have to think of some way to have it decrease. And all of this can't be too frequent to keep the book keeping on the low.
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>>119521437
But the second half is just an extension of the first half.

Texhnolyze is one of my absolute favorites, but it's really nothing like Evangelion.
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>>119513609

That it's gotten off its high horse and come down to Earth.
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>>119513769
>>
>There are people on this board that read less than 30 fucking books throughout 2014

They're here, right now. Disgusting.
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Evangelion is a 7 or 8 out of 10 anime, what makes the whole trip worth it is EoE where you witness the rise and fall of the true heroes.

>>119516998
Wh- Why can't I do all of those things?
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>>119513609
Satoshi Kon calls you on your bullshit.
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>>119522111
i haven't read a book in like 5 years
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It's primarily psychological, not philosophical. A subject anime has even worse time portraying.
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>>119522574
And that's disgusting. Why do I share a board with you?
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>>119513769
>>119513978
Can't we all agree that both are shit compared to Utena?
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>>119522528
Satoshi Kon is psychological/psychadelic, not philosophical.

>>119522870
Utena was fun as hell, but that's it.
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>>119522870
Only if we further agree that Utena is shit compared to Penguindrum.
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>Watched Eva recently
>Just want to discuss the cool robots, animation, and ayyliens
>Never discussed on /m/ because it's a Gainax show not named Gunbuster, /a/ only talks about it for the girls and the my anime is better than yours meme

I swear to fucking christ.
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>>119523078
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJoPoZBbujw

For you.
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>>119523078
You have to pick a time when everybody's not shitposting. There's been like four eva bait threads up in the last couple of hours.
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>>119522845
Reading books isn't for everyone. Some people simply can't read for long periods of time.
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>>119523031
>Penguindrum
>not shit from the second half
Penguindrum was pretty good, but Ikuni's best work is still Utena. Never have I seen such a great work of recontextualization in my life. The way that the motivations and actions of it`s main characters are completly put under new light at the last two episodes no less if quite amazing.
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>>119523240
>tfw eyes get tired from reading because shitty eyes

Books on tape nigga.
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>>119521764
Yeah, of course, I was just saying that Eva has two sides to it, a lighter side and a darker side, both of which I'd rather take separately. Actually this is just totally my own opinion, I see what Eva is trying to do, it just doesn't work for me.
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>>119513609

>eva
>philosophical

Ayy lmao.
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>>119523315
Eva is pretty dark from the get-go
>Shinji gets into the supa fightan robot
>arm broken, impaled through the head
>goes berserker, snaps the monster's arms, then savagely bashes the helpless creature's heart open with its own rib(?)
But I get where you mean. Fair enough, anon.
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>>119513609
Very funny OP. You can stop now.
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For the idiots in this thread who are saying Evangelion isn't philosophical: the central theme of the series is existentialism, especially towards the end of it.
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>>119523078
The best Eva threads usually occur late at night or start as questionnaire threads where the OP is asking questions about NGE's FAR or some shit, not bait threads like this.
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REMINDER THIS IS THE YEAR EVA IS SET

PREPARE YOUR ANUSES
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>>119524770
Second impact was the true beginning, anon.

The dream is dead.
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>>119524770
So is Back to the Future part II
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>>119524770
The internet is 3rd impact, this is the year it'll finally kill us all.
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rebuild = prequel trilogy
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>>119516449
1. Definately, although the representations of such flaws isn't as static as the representation of such said flaws would normally bring about; basically I'm saying that even though each of the three pilots have a certain main flaw attributed to them, they all share in the fact that they each have enough intelligence to actually hate themselves and feed themselves reasoning for self abasement to continue; this is what keeps it from being something like a bunch of moaning (Shinji whines when he has reason, and honestly I've seen more complaints about NGE than I have something like Accel World or Renton from Eureka 7 who both in the first eps complained more than Shinji did in at least 5, which I find to be somewhat strange. That being said, I would say dominately Shinji's specific flaw is a basic lack of confidence and drive; a compass if you will, to give him drive to find a way to love himself, to find reason in the idea. Asuka's the most obvious in the fact that she exibits gratification and happiness only through others, which more superficially causes jealousy, and more deeply causes problems with important attention to the self as oppossed to superficial attention to the self. Rei's is hardest for me to say, as the story around her isn't as clear, or at least it didn't seem that way to me; it seems to be an amalgalm of the two; she takes from Asuka in that she lacks a large amount of ego and in some ways amounts to walking self sacrifice through hatred, and the hatred and lack of selfish direction is reminicent of Shinji. Their issues are remarkably similar when boiled down.
3. Of course it did, examples of this are easy to remember, the very first ep shows something of an ex of this in the fact that upon seeing Rei injured, Shinji decides to pilot despite being completely ignorant of the inner workings of Eva; everyone remembers ep9 and the fact that coordination allowed victory, and without social interaction
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>>119525292
>>119516449
the pilots wouldn't have any reason to fight.
4. Depends on what you mean by during the show. If you mean by during the solid plot, i.e. eps 1-24, then I would have to say Shinji, as his psyche was the one explored the most, although all the characters grew towards each other in their own weird way. During the last two eps I'd have to say Shinji as well; they are almost completely devoted to the pilot's journey's to find love for themselves, and a bias towards Shinji is again shown in this endeavor. (which I personally don't mind.)
5. Intelligence with which it was written. There was no compromise which is why it still garners such a polarized opinion today with people; some recognize it for what it is, and some see it as pretentious. The way Ano decided to go ahead and write the last two eps is something I have to say I like the most; it's somewhat difficult to find anything else like it, and if you understand it, well then it's easy to see the beauty, and thought in which it was carried out.
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>>119525111
Rebuild and the prequel trilogy are both pretty worthless, but Eva TV and EoE were way better than Star Wars ever was.
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>>119525292
>>119525525
Why thank you, very detailed. You have been very helpful.
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>>119516449
Hope this story fuels your enthusiasm.
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>>119513609
NGE gets too lost in imagery to actually make the point it's trying to.
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>>119517418
That or his PTSD experiences with Nazis
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>>119527412
But it doesn't get lost. The character-themed episodes, near the end, make the point quite clear. You can entirely avoid the sci-fi stuff.
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>>119527412
You're confusing NGE with Utena.
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>>119517354
Hum... I tried to write a book for real once. While the story itself is a challenge the struggle was what I were trying to convey and find the words to convey it. Words that would let the reader find it's own meanings to.

I want to add a work in this thread: Kakukaku Shikajika.
Reading it now and finding beautiful (it's autobiographical).
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The best thing about Eva is that it led to FLCL.
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>>119527816
There's a reason James Joyce would only write about 2 sentences a day. Shit's hard.
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>>119526916
I might have read that before. As amusing as the story is, the whole thing about being useless without good SR is something I want to avoid. If anything, AdEva has a lot of Rebuild-like super-robot shenanigans. I'd like to stay closer to the television show.

But hey, if someone wants to use another eva to bludgeon the enemy, why not? Hopefully it won't be because they're otherwise useless in combat.
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>>119522870
Every knows Eva is better than Utena but they just don't want to say it.
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>>119527561
Both really. Everyone knows by now that the Christian "symbolism" doesn't actually mean anything, but that doesn't change the fact that it's all over the place. Trying to create depth by trotting out a conga line of symbolic props like Utena was always a retarded idea anyways.
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>>119529941
>Trying to create depth by trotting out a conga line of symbolic props
But that's not what happened. The Christianity in Eva has nothing to do with Christianity as we see it, but as Nerv sees it.
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what is monogatari series
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>>119530158
I'm more referring to how whatever fans of Eva perceive as the parts that make the show worthwhile don't have anything to do with those symbols.
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>>119530330
Ah, but retards will be retards. There are people who think the banter and wordplay in Monogtari amount to anything more than wordplay and banter.
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>>119529941
Utena symbolism actually means something unlike Eva's "symbolism" as we know, its just there to be cool.
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>>119531456
What does Miki's stopwatch mean?
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>>119531593
Thats one of few rather than adding everything everything related to Christianty to mean nothing.
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>>119531593
It symbolizes Miki's regret and desire to go back to his past. Something like that.
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>>119516731
Hands down the greatest novel ever (seriously).
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>>119516731
>turn 360 degrees and walk away.
But I can't because I just turned 360 degrees so I'm exactly where I started.
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>>119531456
Symbolism not meaning anything is part of the problem, but not the whole problem. What I'm saying is that there's more to a show than whether or not it's deep; above anything else it needs to be a good and well-told story. If deep was the only requirement Eva could be transformed into a set of powerpoint slides or we'd all just read a philosophy text instead. I don't question Eva and Utena's depth, but I'm very critical of both shows because I think they are poorly told and executed. And since I believe the most important thing a story has above a philosophy paper is the ability to empathize and connect to the viewer, I don't care how meaningful a set of symbolic props are supposed to be if they just get tossed out there carelessly the way these shows do it.
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>>119533616
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>>119531456
Actually Eva's symbolism is quite thought-out, people just assume it doesn't mean shit because they believed Tsurumaki and Anno's word for it.
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>>119536148
So what is the meaning behind the angels exploding into crosses? Why were rainbows added for angelic deaths in Rebuild?
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Ok, while I dont think Eva is particularly philosophical. Its characters are still very dense and complex on a psychological level.

The issue with calling almost any work "philosophical" is that it requires the right pretense. When Shinji is questioning his existence, it is because he's thinking of the big picture in a metaphysical (big picture) sense, he's thinking about as it relates to him and how others value him.

While its not anime this is something I would consider a great example. In Blade Runner when Deckard kills replicants he feels remorse, and he's left with a philosophical quandry over the ethics of killing things that seem so human. So any internal philosophizing or conflict is over a pretense that relates to ethics as a whole, "Is it right to kill something that thinks and feels like a human, even though it isn't?". (This is including that Deckard is also aware of the social perspective on replicants)

Shinji is focused on HIS big picture

Deckard is focused on THE big picture

Shinji isn't being philosophical, he's psychologically analyzing himself.
Also Misatofags unite.
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>>119536148
I believe that the cross-shaped explosions don't mean anything, which is the first thing that plebs think of when it comes to Eva's symbolism, but I also think that Eva still has a ton of meaningful symbolism and imagery.
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>>119536579
>crosses mean nothing

I agree with this, although when I first saw the show way back in the 90's I made the mistake of thinking that they meant something as well. You answered well.
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>>119516570
>Brothers Karmazov
>pages and pages talking about religious nonsense

It was awful, though I imagined Alyosha as a cute shota for some reason
Anna Karenina was better, delicious NTR
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>>119513609
Mushishi>Eva
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>>119515423
Madoka is a shit
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>>119536566

Not that I disagree, but whether or not Shinji is a philosophically thoughtful character is irrelevant to the question of Evangelion being so.
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>>119537665
Out of curiosity, what would make Evangelion philosophical?
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>>119513609
>philosophical
No. But aside from the word choice, probably just Madoka from this decade so far. Don't want to bother listing everything else from earlier.
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>>119538077
Not that anon, but it just feels like the wrong word to use to describe an anime. There are plenty of other words one could use, meaningful, thoughtful, etc. but philosophical sounds too high-minded for what we're talking about.
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>>119536566
>Is it right to kill something that thinks and feels like a human, even though it isn't?
This is going to sound edgy but can someone explain what the huge deal with killing humans is anyways? I guess I get it if a character thinks its "morally wrong" to take a life, but what makes it so extra bad if its a person? Is it because its the same species or because they can think more deeply?
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>>119538539
Most people have a natural aversion to killing other people because humans have significantly more intelligence (and thus more choice) than any other species. Therefore, killing someone else robs that person of their right to life and their freedom of choice. I personally would argue that this extends, to some extent, to other intelligent mammals, but it obviously doesn't apply to stuff like insects and plants.
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>>119538597
Yeah, thinking about this kind of bothers me. If we ever encounter another species more intelligent than us, does that mean it is fair for them to treat us the way we treat livestock and other animals?
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>>119538539
I had a debate with my best friend about this and I still don't really get. The general argument he provided was that morality is a human concept and therefore should benefit humans over other species. I dunno I pointed out how arbitrary it seemed but that was the argument.
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>>119538539
In the context of Blade Runner, Deckard was concerned over the societal perspective on killing replicants because they were so human-like. Doesn't it seem contradictory to live in a society that is ok with killing something that is so much like them, something so alike that any distinction through terms seems pedantic or unwarranted in affecting the way those distinctions affect the society's ethics.

So, generally its "so bad" because of the society's perspective and personal perspective. And thats what Blade Runner deals with.
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>>119538757
By human standards it means exactly that.
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>>119538825
Haven't seem Blade Runner yet and trying to avoid spoilers, but that last line in your post sounds like pretty heavy moral relativism. That's a dangerous line to walk.
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>>119538757
People just have a hard time killing living beings they see as individuals, that's why most people don't give names to the animals they are going to kill.
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>>119538757
It mostly depends on how generous the alien species is. It's possible that they would simply grant us some degree of autonomy, but we'd ultimately be under their rule and most likely as second-class citizens.

It's also possible that we would be treated as pets. And honestly, people generally treat their pets pretty well. It's illegal to torture your dog (in civilized countries anyway) and stuff like that. So they do have some rights. I highly doubt humans have any sort of value as livestock (so many other animals breed much faster than us and grow quicker), so that's probably a needless worry.
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>>119516723
>Lolita

Is it about lolis?
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>>119538931
Why would they even bother? Also humans probably would be too dangerous/problematic to have as pets, we are also no cute enough.
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>>119538912
Almost any moral stance is going to end up having its faults and internal quandries under the right circumstances. But yes, moral relativism is kinda of a heavy undertone throughout the story.

You should totally go see it though, incredibly well written.
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>>119538757
I think the prospect of finding intelligent extraterrestrial life is extremely improbable, if you think about how specifically life evolved on Earth. There's no reason for other life to be anywhere near familiar organisms, in fact I think it'd be most likely for it to be inconceivably foreign. It'd probably be made of the same materials, or at least carbon-based, but the appearance of anything more than a microbe would probably be vastly different from anything on Earth. For example, if all you knew was animals, could you possibly imagine something as different but still perfectly functioning as a plant? And intelligence is such a specific, but vague thing, I think it's expecting an unrealistic coincidence for extraterrestrial life to have a humanlike mind. Either way, I hope I live to see the discovery of living organisms on other planets, that'd be truly spectacular.
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>>119539038
Where do you think the word comes from? Although lolita based around one mans creepy pedophilic fascination.
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>>119539148
>Also humans probably would be too dangerous/problematic to have as pets
Depends on their technology and own smarts.

>we are also no cute enough.
That's a matter of perspective in the end. For whatever it's worth, we're a lot less hairy than most species.
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>>119539207
>most species.
most mammals*
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>>119539207
>we're a lot less hairy than most species.
They could get an amphibian, perfect smooth moist skin.
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>>119513609
what is madoka?
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>>119539188
The scary thing is that it's perfectly possible for there to be some super-advanced alien species out there. I don't remember the exact timescale of the universe too well, but humans developed pretty late. There could be a species out there that started off with a habitable planet only a billion or two years after the big bang.
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>>119539188
>I think it'd be most likely for it to be inconceivably foreign
That reminds me of "superintelligent shade of the colour blue"
Also for most of the earth history humans weren't around, for all we know aliens might have visited the dinosaurs
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>>119539364
Fuck you, thinking about this stuff makes me really wish I were omniscient.
>tfw you'll never know everything about and in the universe(s) or be able to see everything from start to finish
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>>119513609

it's not good to act dumb in front of others, child.
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>>119539462
Many-worlds theory
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>>119539462
>you may never find out if the Akashic records are an actual thing
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>>119522870
As long as we all can agree that they're all shit compared to The Rose of Versailles.
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>>119513609
>philosophical
>EVA
this fagoot XD
>muh deep /thread
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>>119516998

Silly anon, IQ is not a clean cut indication of intelligence. Everyone is retarded in their own way, and everyone is intelligent in their own way, well the former is more common.
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>>119516998
>Sports
>IQ 113
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>>119536579
The exploding crosses left over by the angels don't mean much, at most it's a reference to the destruction of the ego.

However in other cases in represents the ego/self coming into contact with others. And then there's Misato's cross which is something different entirely.
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>>119513609
>philosophical
>evangelion
AHAHAHA oh wait, you are serious? AHAHA
>>
>>119538757
Assuming if they have a similar human mentality.

Though I would think a species capable of intergalactic travel would be so advanced that it probably wouldn't need us as a food source or see us as any competition due to the near-infinite amount of resources they can gather from space.
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>>119523031
>dat GNU/Penguin
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>>119523031
You're wrong.
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>>119523116
I couldnt stop laughing.
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>>119527919
Was he retarded?
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>>119516570
>Implying Wuthering heights as one of the earliest depictions of social and mental deconstructions is shit tier
What 13 year old wrote this shit after their first English class
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>>119513609
>Eva
>Philosophical
>>
>>119516998
>Shitting on slaughterhouse 5
I've had shits with more science fiction in than that book
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>tfw there's no Monster in this thread
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>>119537016
>>
>>119516723
>Harry Potter
I know I'm late but holy shit. The series almost ends with the phrase 'they all lived happily ever after'. /Lit/ needs to get some fucking taste.
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>>119542503
>The series almost ends with the phrase 'they all lived happily ever after'
Nothing wrong with that.
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>>119542633
>implying there isn't
Seriously though. Its a lazy phone in and if her other pursuits since HP have taught anyone anything it's that she fluked her way through a hit
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>>119542678
I wasn't commenting on the series as a whole or Rowling as an author, but I disagree with what I greentexted.
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>>119542503
well not like you don't have 99 others on the list to pick from
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>>119516449
>I am designing a tabletop game in the spirit of NGE
Sounds interesting as hell.

1. I don't think they were that simplistic. They each definitely represented a different personality disorder, though most of them had similar motivations at their cores.

2. Most emotions work really. Really Asuka was the only time we saw a pilot get worse at piloting, and it was because she lost a lot of her will because she was completely outdone.

3. Mental condition was the primary factor in battle, if you missed that, you missed the entire anime.

4. Shinji grew the most, then Asuka, then Rei. Shinji ends up taking initiative and actively deciding he wants to exist. for him, this is pretty huge. Asuka was actually willing to express herself and show some of her weakness. She might've broken down toward the end, but she needed to break down eventually. Rei was basically set back to square one when she was killed, before that she would've shown the most growth by far. She basically had to learn what it means to be human from square one within the course of a few months.

5. The characters are what make the show. A cast that is easy to love, hate and relate to with a bucketload of emotional issues. Honorable mention for the setting though, it's post-apocalytic but not grimdark fallout-tier; modern society still exists to some extent.
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