I feel like the term "crisis" is given to the problem by the media, and not actually by anyone in tune with the situation over there. They live on a small island and, for the size of the landmass, they've been horribly densely populated for the past 30 years or so.
This "crisis", if anything, will help them out in the long run, assuming the government prepares adequately for the changing tax earnings, and support costs
>>119500275 I think you're thinking too simply about this. A population crisis usually refers to the fact that a large portion of the population will be leaving the workforce (retiring/dying) without adequate replacement, and that the seniors and people past the working age aren't going to have as much support from the younger generation. So that's the same mentality as saying that we should withdraw all support from Africa so that their population can diminish to manageable levels. Which of course makes sense, but it's still an inhumane way of thinking.
>>119500318 This. Germany now and its inherent cultural clash is the very reason why Japanese will never import a large portion of immigrants into their country. They already hate their Korean and Chinese migrants, how much more other novelty immigrants with less East Asian cultural tendencies?
>>119500395 Nobody cares about the japs either, that's why nobody felt bad about nuking them at the time. The point is, if Japan's birth problem is gonna be shoved in my face, why not just go for the larger issue, which is Germany.
>>119500531 How new are you. Japan working conditions are the worst by far of any first world country. Enjoy your 15 hours a day 6 days a week 1 month of vacations a year of slavery. Not to mention how much BS you have to go through basically needing to develop a new "at job" personality
>>119500755 I've actually been to Japan and everyone was super nice, to the point where they offered to take our photos, cheering when I was trying to get a fig on one of those UFO catchers in Akiba, etc.
>>119500838 It is about the same as any country. Most people don't care or don't say anything but a few people will outright say it to your face, a lot of Japanese people are passive aggressive so they may say things in passing that could be taken as offensive but they don't mean it.
>>119500838 It's partly true. Modern anime uses modern, western characters to remove the xenophobia that infected most people after the wars. Old people wont buy this, but young people do. That's why if you should ever move to Japan, you will be mostly treated nice by young people only.
>>119500838 The xenophobia isn't rampant but it does exist. People are super polite to each other in Japan, and tourists too, because they pride themselves on their manners. But there is some latent racism there, a good deal of it. This will come into play if you're ever looking for a job, for example, or trying to get a promotion at a current job, or meeting the parents of a Japanese girl you're dating. But most of the time it does a good job of staying hidden.
>>119500999 The looking for a job would be kind of your fault. No one moves a country before looking into jobs, unless you're desperate to move. The promotion thing is probably true but it's like that everywhere (which doesn't make it better). The last one is just normal. Imagine if Tyrone introduced himself as your daughter's boyfriend.
>>119500816 >myth Not him but don't try to back peddle, I've been to Japan and the xenophobia is real. They aren't in your face about it but if they're sure you don't know what they're saying they'll bitch about gajin. Not saying they're all cunts, I'd hate the gajin as a collective too, plenty are nice on a personal level once you get to know them but there is a resistance to outsiders. Don't be a weeb and try to warp reality for glorious nippon.
There was an article published somewhere saying birthrates are even lower than expected this year and are at the lowest they have ever been. Apparently more people are dying than being born at this point in Japan. Also apparently the elderly make up a majority of their population.
>>119500483 You'll probably be okay if you stay on the straight and narrow and don't look like a target for petty criminals. Japan's police are both totally useless and will NOT help you if you're victimized, and extremely brutal if you're a convenient fall guy for some crime with enough evidence such that they can't ignore it.
>>119501171 >>119501139 im also 6.5 medium build and generally normal looking i was treated just fine when i visited everyone was so nice nips don't hate westerners or people with otaku intrests like /a/ will have you believe. they just hate fat ugly sweaty nerds like the rest of the world. oh and people who are loud (rightfully so) be quiet when you are there for fuck sake. so if you add all this up being a fat ugly sweaty nerd who is too loud you got yourself the average american weeb.
>>119503862 >Have you ever even lurked the BD sales threads or the TV ratings threads? Yes, moeshit pandering animes are always on top, what's your point? >Studios have to pay the stations to broadcast anime. And?
>>119503884 >Yes, moeshit pandering animes are always on top, I'm talking about the numbers you braindead fuck. 20k sales is considered a bestseller in a country with more than 100 million inhabitants.
"Lol some people die who cares? Than there will just be less people living there, whatever."
No. The problem is that there are going to be a shitload of old people who retired from work and the young people who need to support them. In the next few decades there will be WAY too many old people who already retired for the younger, much smaller generation to sustain. Thus Japan will have a lot of financial problems.
>>119505053 Spain has made retarded things in the past but Japan's retardness is unique. A nation that lost a global empire and became an extension of Africa until the late 20th century is still less retarded than Japan
Much better than in the 90s anyway. It's because Japan has a sizable Iranian population (long story short, Japan in the late 80s needed a lot of cheap workers for their numerous construction projects, so because of some trade deal they had with Iran, workers could go there for construction work without a visa).
>>119505661 Immigration can work, its just how you approach it. You need to be strict and only take educated people instead of taking in every asylum seeker and allowing them to freely rape your countries girl as they please like Sweden does.
There are a lot of east Asians on my university and they are behaving just fine. If you only take in these kind of people and reject people from Somalia who just want the welfare then immigration can certainly benefit a country.
>>119503369 1. Population becomes wealthy enough such that struggle for food and safety is mostly mitigated. 2. Much like the rat experiment, birth rates decline and many members of the population devote themselves to asocial habits. 3. Population hits a critical point. In absence of external migrants providing aggression and competition, it sees a recession and returns to struggling for necessities. 4. Population recovers and the cycle repeats.
>>119505969 Yes, now instead of being overpopulated with a lot of young people, it'll be full of old people who can't work, Imagine the boomer population going into retirement and its effect except WORSE, and with a smaller/weaker country.
>>119506160 Well, what do you think is the purpose of TECHNOLOGY?
Japan is leading in the robotics departement. If there is a nation that can handle the shift to aging population without relying on fucking immigrants, then it is Japan.
Let me say it again:
1.People are not that dumb to follow some shitty propaganda the economists and the government makes to get their population to breed like rabbits again. Especially with the extremly stressful average day for a citizen, where it is almost normal to work yourself to death.
>>119505682 >Japanese people aren't that stupid to listen to what their governments tell them to do.
Aha. Ahahaha. Oh, you have no idea.
Ok, let me explain how government works in Japan: the government tells the people about something, the people say "oh, ok then", and once in a while a scandal happens and the people freak the fuck out. Want to know why? Because the majority of the people genuinely don't have any idea how their government works, and just live on the assumption that the Diet (parliament) just does what government is supposed to do. They don't have Freedom of Information in Japan, aka the people don't have the concept of "right to know" on what the govt is doing in its day-to-day work. The people vote uninformed, that's why PMs get voted out so quickly for not MAGICALLY turning around a recession they've been in for almost 30 years now.
>>119506417 There is no way to replace the vitality of a new generation with robotics. Japan might finally find an economic resurgence with the advent of advanced robotics, but they'll still be in cultural decline.
I think most of this "population crisis" alert stuff is made by shilling Jews who see their money cows dwindling away.
How retarded can people be to believe people of certain nations should breed more, when e.g. Japan in this case has the biggest Freeter sector of the World, where young people struggle to find stable environment.
What crazy fuck thinks of starting a family under these conditions?
They can be shilling and crying all day long, but the development will continue as it is the natural flow of all summed up consequences.
The only way to adapt to this reasonably is with further employment of technology.
Unless they go full Hitler style and build breeding factories.
They pretty much live in little cages, space has always been a problem, they overwork, the young people struggle to find secure jobs. What the heck is vital and healthy about that? Don't you think an increasing population will make these problems even worse?
>>119507165 Well, people lose their shit and might go out onto the streets, but it has pretty much 0 effect as long as their living conditions don't get massively worse.
It works in Europe. The wealth has been distributed to the Top over the years with all the little financial crisis, people demonstrate and whatever, but still the course is set, so those demonstrations have 0 effects on it. And even with knowing what is going on, the usual reigning parties get enough vote to remain the strongest force. So, why should it even matter whether the citizens know what is going on exactly, when the result is the same?
>>119503472 >people who are loud ha, I was chatting with a friend of mine who lives in Kyoto, and we some how got onto the topic of Japan USA relations, and one of the things she pointed about what they dislike Americans doing when they visit, is being loud.
Aside from being loud, she also said that the biggest offender is people who come over and are rude about traditions and customs. Also, the constant comparisons between 'Well in America we do this and this'. Now, I don't know if this is much, but she also pointed out that when an American is asked where they are from, they typically say 'America', but should have said 'USA'. Seems like a really futile thing to worry about but oh well.
I'm pretty sure most people with JAPAN SUCKS horror stories are weaboos who went over there as full blown weebs and came back jaded as hell.
Though, i've been there for a week and it was just for hotels and meetings, hardly any free time at all, and everyone spoke english aside from a couple of the older guys who obviously understood english but liked having a translator there as some kind of power thing.
>>119508509 yeah the whole "we do this where im from" thing is a given aswell wherever you go. when in Rome and such. its like if some Japanese people came over to your house for dinner and you had laid out knives and forks for them but they asked for chopsticks instead. its just rude (not like that's an issue over there they understand westerners are dyslexic retards who cant use them half the time)
>>119510150 Grandpa is going to save for retirement or be sheltered by his clan like the last 10,000 years of human civilization. The welfare state is a fiction based on industrialization scale growth continuing for all eternity. muh inovashun
Add to that the gazillions of dead japanese old people for which the retirement checks still are being collected. I think i read about a case where the mayor turned up to congratulate a woman for her 100th birthday and it turned out the woman had be dead for ~20 years and the children did not report it to continue collecting.
>>119510216 >The welfare state is a fiction based on industrialization scale growth continuing for all eternity. Not really. The reason it isn't currently working in Germany at satisfying levels is that they've excepted everybody who earns a bit better than the average.
>>119507819 Any new generation has an energy that can't be matched by anything within that culture. It might not match up to the youth of other cultures or the past youths of the the same self culture, but at that point in time the youth is unmatched in energy and vitality. No amount of robots can supplant that.
>>119510540 Or force the elderly out of those jobs now so the current generation of young adults actually have stable income and the opportunity to raise a family instead of having to get by on freeter jobs and buying consumer shit
>>119510540 What's the point when the Gen Xers will just take the spot of the baby boomers, retire even later, and my potential offspring won't be able to get on the property ladder or into middle management until age 70
Every generation is awful, and once they've lived through their golden years, they desperately cling onto whatever they can and screw over the next generation even harder.
>>119510373 Or if more jobs were artificially created as is the case in many a first world country. Alternatively, they could go to war. It boosts GDP as hell as long as you conduct it away from your shores.
1) Simply in terms of numbers and qualifications, there are likely not enough young people to fill every job that would be opened up by forcing geezers to retire 2) An influx of retirees would place an even more enormous burden on the government pension system; taxes would have to be raised 3)There's no guarantee or evidence that this would have any effect on birthrate
>>119510762 >Artificial jobs Terrible idea. It's what led to the 2008 recession. Lots of non-jobs, people buying houses and things they couldn't afford, suddenly everyone realizes that they don't actually have any money and their job is easily cut or replaced, and unemployment rises.
I guess it will give people 'experience' to work a real profession.
What would be better is if we had a new technology or industry and companies were willing to give jobs to the people in their own countries instead of third world peasants. Or if governments didn't nationalize them or tax them. Or set up a police state, seize the assets of the wealthiest, nationalize the companies and provide lots of work for people. And then try not to go to war or commit purges.
>>119510968 The fairy tale of the lucrative war came up during the world wars in which the US were mostly uninvolved but in which they sold lots of weapons and stuff to those parties that were involved. The US got a lot of money (and gold) out of the deal.
Normally war starts a war bubble in which a lot of money is spent but in the end reality catches up and you run into a net-loss.
>>119511514 >here's really no difference between a war and state-sponsored workplace creation in terms of the impact on the GDP. That's what I just said. See: >If that's what you want you can skip the war and just create artificial jobs. If that's your goal, I suggest spending the money on education and science instead of war. That's way more effective and has great benefits.
>>119511619 Yeah. States could hire more teachers or give more grants to researchers and get the GDP boost that way. The difference is in the beneficiaries. Playing the devil's advocate, in the first place you'd be nurturing the populace which is already in the high income range. Consider the effects on income equality and social structure as a whole.
>>119511677 Both time and energy are limited resources in a human lifetime. It's either you taking care of your parents and maintaining a decent quality of life or you taking care of both your parents and your kids and living a shit quality of life. So it's either assisted suicide for the old, population crash or back to the lifestyle of medieval peasants.
>>119511879 >Playing the devil's advocate, in the first place you'd be nurturing the populace which is already in the high income range. It's the opposite. You can bring education to the poor if you actually care enough to do so. Most countries don't, so they cut education short and only deliver to the high income range.
And with war, half the money you don't have is going to Jewish arms producers, so you have to squeeze it back out of your poor population with taxes.
>>119512052 >not living in a country where research and production of arms is state-owned
>You can bring education to the poor if you actually care enough to do so. That's a good point. However, the quality of education is a fundamental issue. That would be a system which provides everyone with opportunities and incentives to attain an education which guarantees high-earning jobs, provided it's not fucked up somewhere along the way.
>>119512088 >If economists are so smart, why do the problems keep getting bigger? Just stop posting. It's embarrassing to read what you write. It's not economists who are in charge of running countries, lowly /pol/ abomination.
>>119512088 >Why do the rich ones have become more wealthy while the average citizen have become more poor? In the case of UK it's not true. The richer got richer, but the average citizen (the medium income group) got richer too.
>>119512088 In my country, the minister of finance was recently very proud to finally present a plan that would not result in further debts - he did this by cutting just about every cost imaginable. In a few years every single road in the country will need to be remade and most public offices will be closed because there's nobody working there, but at least he had his one moment of glory.
>>119512661 How comes the income inequality has been stagnant or slighty rising?
I am sorry, but there are enough articles and data out there that says otherwise, which should be true for most 1st World countries.
With all the recent "crisis" the only people who profited from it had been wealthy even before, while your average citizen has to pay for all of it through increase of taxes and whatever instruments there are like lowering the key interest rate which hurts the people who have a savings running in banks. The interest rates got so low that they can't outweigh the inflation rate anymore, which means they are losing wealth.
>>119510339 They wouldn't recognize any of those names except Perry. Japs in generally know about as much about WW2 as your average American elementary student. They might recognize MacArthur since he, you know, ruled their country for about a decade, but I wouldn't count on it.
>>119513954 >Incomes have been measured before housing costs have been deducted
My Engrish is not good enough to understand the meaning behind this sentence. So all this means those figures don't adjust housing costs?
>Were it not for the strong income growth among the very rich, income inequality would have fallen between 2008–09 and 2009–10. Growth in incomes at the top of the distribution has often been an important driver of increased inequality in recent years, and we consider the issue of top-income growth later in this section.
And for your little chart.
>One likely driving factor behind the strong income growth amongst those with lower incomes between 2007–08 and 2009–10 was higher income from benefits and tax credits.
Nice way to cover things up. Governments always find instruments to cover up their failures and tweak their stats.
>>119513954 I HOPE YOU HAVE READ THE FUCKING REPORT YOURSELF BEFORE POSTING THAT SHIT BECAUSE IT ALL IN ALL BASICALLY SUPPORTS WHAT I HAVE SAID THAT THE INCOME OF THE MOST WEALTHY ONES GREW UNPROPORTIONALLY WHILE THE OTHER ONES SUFFERED OR STAYED PRETTY MUCH STAGNANT.
Here, the GINI coefficient right from your source.
>>119514804 Enroll yourself in some classes or something. There is a clear distinction between wages/salaries and income. I hope your hands-off-the-economy-no-benefits-allowed mentality comprehends such things as governmental hand-outs.
>So all this means those figures don't adjust housing costs? Bravo, Sherlock.
>nippon having a decreasing population is a bad thing because economics says so No, Japan is an overpopulated nation especially Tokyo and endlessly increasing population will do more harm than good in the long run. Only bankers and short-sighted economics would think that an ever-increasing population is ever a good thing, especially for a 1st world country with very limited land which have dozens of active volcanoes and earthquakes.
>but who'll pay for Grandpa Old man doesn't retire from a company even if they are useless and/or senile because resigning/quitting a job is disgraceful. There are companies that still pays senile grandpas to sit in a room and do virtually nothing to not get in the way of others' works. They'll pay for themselves until at least 10 years from their deathbed.
>who'll replace those old people from working? This would be an issue if getting a job is easy in the current situation, less population makes easier job hunting and that means less unemployed and unwilling NEETs.
And there's also this to consider: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
If anything, nations with large population will all have labor problems and unemployment in the years to come, workers strike every other day and rising crime rate because jobs will be replaced by cheaper and more efficient automatons. Decreasing one's population is just a way to prepare for the next inevitable technology revolution for Japan, which is also one of the leading nations in said technology advancements.
>>119515887 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/business/global/layoffs-illegal-japan-workers-are-sent-to-the-boredom-room.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 This is posted a lot of time last year, how could you missed it.
>>119512018 >medieval peasants Utterly laughable for a world that escaped those conditions literally hundreds of years before the welfare state. The income you were paying as a tax is now directed to your parents. Your parents that have their savings nest egg. Your parents that have the best income bracket and the ability to live and work healthily more than ever before. And you're going to return to serfdom?
The idiocy of the socialization is the imagination that you're the beneficiary rather than the subsidizer. Only the truly destitute benefit from the system as it is now, everyone else is dragged down by it.
>>119516151 >The idiocy of the socialization is the imagination that you're the beneficiary rather than the subsidizer. Only the truly destitute benefit from the system as it is now, everyone else is dragged down by it. Not really. There's more poor people than rich people. Therefore, the majority benefits.
>>119516554 >Their aren't moor poor people than anyone. *There aren't more poor people than people in other wage categories. Not the point. Even if you aren't in the lowest group, you can still benefit from the system. The fact that most people aren't benefiting (very much) has less to do with the idea of socialization and more with the half-assed way it's done.
>>119516112 >The practice you mentioned is surely not universal. Of course big companies like Sony can afford it, but small-time employers cannot. Obviously, but that still doesn't mean that the seniors are not taken care of. They'll be dead weight, but larger population doesn't mean that they won't be. In fact, I'll argue that a smaller population will benefit more old timers in Japan's case.
In a overpopulated nation like Japan, there are far more workers/people than there are demand for them. http://www.businessinsider.com/japans-unemployment-rate-hits-a-16-year-low-2014-6?IR=T&
A larger population only lowers the income of the average worker and therefore the amount of money they can spend for their elders. Japan needs to lower their population to increase their employment rate, and subsequently their workers average income. This is why the crazy work ethics in japan is a thing. And the reactionary NEETs that believes that working means losing in life.
And this doesn't considers the possibility of the automation revolution that is inevitable to happen sooner or latter. Also, the current trend of decreasing population in Japan will only take real effect in the next 15-20 years for better or worse. And by then it's not far-fetched to assume the need of human workers will be at an all time low as technology advances.
>>119515790 >>119517093 Robots of japans will be similar to immigrants of Europes. They'll take the jobs no one wants, except robots doesn't make social troubles and riots when they don't want to conform to the local cultures.
>>119515200 Pretty much this. If you don't imbibe, you might as well just kill yourself, because your colleagues will start shunning you. This is why Japan is #1 in suicides. Frankly, it's a shithole, I really feel sorry for people who live there, I really do. Living in that fucking backwards country, damn.
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