I'm at episode 60. I really want to like this series because of it's rated high by veteran anime viewers but the anime's take on military strategies in sci fi setting is silly, historical quotes are overused, the characters are too one-dimensional and some of them often seem infallible.
My biggest gripes so far is the world building. Okay, so there are two factions but what about sub factions? What about supply problem (it's war)? What about the economy?
Does this show get better?
If you're not enjoying it by episode 60 you're probably not going to like the rest of it and should stop.
Then again, you're already at 60 for some reason, so you might as well finish it.
How the fuck does anyone make it past episode 3-4 OP? I really wanted to watch this but they literally made the MC read military reports to the audience for 30 strait minutes and ep 4. seemed like it would be the exact same thing. Are you suppose to skip the first arc or something? This is just painful to watch.
It just isn't for you then. Though I give you credit for going through that many episodes.
I think everyone here agrees that space battles in LoGH were one of the most autistic things ever seen, but I for one loved the characters and their interactions.
I'll continue. I don't think it's a bad anime, it's just that "hype" does more bad than good.
I thought so too but I've had experiences with other anime that had painful beginning that payed off in the long run. Sadly, LoGH doesn't seem to be one of them.
The point of the show is that it is dictatorship cd democracy, and with that we need two main factions.
Other factions do become more apparent later in the series, even in the season you're in right now.
You need to push through the first 14 episodes or so, they're a struggle.
I have to admit I love the interactions and some of the twists, even though the former can seem pretentious at times.
Maybe. I get my anime recommendations from reading what people with a long list of finished anime have to say (over 200). This is a favorite series of Rorico, so I thought I might give it a try.
>I'm at episode 60.
Prepare to cry in 21 episodes
>Okay, so there are two factions but what about sub factions?
It's like USSR and USA in the Cold War, there was other shit going on but the highlights are always about the two largest powers
>What about supply problem (it's war)?
This is stated in the first 25 episodes and is generally a reminded thing, it also becomes much more apparent in a few episodes
>What about the economy?
It's explained with the Phezzan's, they are constantly doshing out money to help, just pay attention
>the characters are too one-dimensional and some of them often seem infallible.
This is the biggest flaw of the show. No, it doesn't really get better. But anime in general doesn't really getter better, most of the time. So you might as well learn to like of it what you can.
>This is the biggest flaw of the show.
Compared to other anime they are pretty well written and done, the OVA's really shed light on the character designs and purpose for doing what they are
There are splinter groups that form and other events, but by episode 60 you would've already seen the rebellions in the FPA and the Empire, the attack on Phezzan, and the introduction of the Church
They did delve on the supply issue here and there. In fact, Battle of Amelitzer suceeded by forcing off the FPA from Imperial territory via Scorched Earth tactics.
There are several sub factions within each nation and the 2nd half of the first cour was mostly about Civil wars and either side.
They don't really go too far into all of it though (Like what the fuck is powering Iserlohn and its massive Thor Hammer and later on
How is Iserlohn somehow self-sufficient enough despite being isolated for an year). I give a free pass on science because I don't know enough and can only argued for by the context of the science stated in universe.
>They did delve on the supply issue here and there. In fact, Battle of Amelitzer suceeded by forcing off the FPA from Imperial territory via Scorched Earth tactics.
This is all you're going to get, pretty much. It's a TV show OP. You're expecting too much of it; I can relate.
The show goes deep enough for a TV series that needs to sell to viewers should, if you really want to get the details and stuff you should read the manga.
If the show got any deeper it would have abandoned too many viewers and the series would have been abandoned after the first run
The casualties after battles were hilarious. I wonder how they never run out of men.
Did yMy biggest gripes so far is the world building. Okay, so there are two factions but what about sub factions? What about supply problem (it's war)? What about the economy?
ou even pay attention at all?
>characters are too one-dimensional
What? No they aren't.
>You need to push through the first 14 episodes or so
Jesus Fucking Christ even if this became the greatest show ever on episode 15 its not worth sitting through 7 hours of crap.
That's the thing I feel really off about this universe. I don't know where they get the capacity to fight consistent wars in which 70% of fleets can die of in an instant. Only the worst battles of WW2 have casualty rates like that on both ends.
Speaking of that, I also don't have a grasp on how long these battles are suppose to be. The first episode shown entire fleets getting wiped in seconds but then you get parts like the Battle of the Corridor and Second Battle of Rantemario where fleets take potshot at each other for days.
It's objectively one of the best anime out there. You may not like Space Opera.
The only anime that made me cry. Not even After Story managed to heat my cold, cold heart..
This anime is a fucking masterpiece and one of a kind. its not for people of today who have short attention spans and cant handle talking. its people who like to get to know the world and characters and the conversions between them. Its a wild ride all the way to the end.
If you didn't fucking notice space has a fucking huge amount of space for more people. so higher death rates. Also the battle are taken after napoleon era battles. really this anime is not for people who cant listen to people talk and politics. its a amazing anime if you like that sort of thing and its the only type of anime out there like it. it can only be ton in this amount of eps too of it wouldnt feel right.
LoGH isn't poor sci-fi.
Arguably less sci-fi than LoGH because of how realistic it is (besides the whole using people to collect space dirt)
Planetes is good, although objectively inferior.
>Speaking of that, I also don't have a grasp on how long these battles are suppose to be. The first episode shown entire fleets getting wiped in seconds but then you get parts like the Battle of the Corridor and Second Battle of Rantemario where fleets take potshot at each other for days.
This also happens in real life.
>Also the battle are taken after napoleon era battles. really this anime is not for people who cant listen to people talk and politics.
Can I skip to the part where this actually happens? I can take talking. I can't take an entire episodes of the MC reading a history book. I tend to watch anime for animation and not audio novels.
>I don't know where they get the capacity to fight consistent wars in which 70% of fleets can die of in an instant.
You do know that there are fucking planets FULL of people right? humans fucking everywhere. what dont you understand. space fighting is fucking crazy look at any space drama. millions of people are gonna die when you fight in space.
really only fucking 15 year olds would hate this anime and not understand whats going on.
>mfw they make new logh adaption to attract all fujoshi
>beach episodes with full male cast
Considering the original source material took place in the 70s, I'd still say the science fiction aspect isn't all bad.
The writing is still questionable. Why introduce the contraption where one can sleep in it for 10 minutes and have the same effect of having 8 hours of sleep and then not mention it again is beyond me.
If Yang had that shit, pic related wouldn't of had to come to play.
This fucking anime is about politics, dont watch it. I fucking love it, its really fucking rare to find anything like this and it being so long and amazing in any media, let alone anime.
Its the best space opera/drama ever made and you are talking down on it?
you people have no fucking clue just how big on a grand scale this anime is. its a fucking masterpiece.
Really you people make me sicks, get a fucking brain. just because you cant handle politics, doesn't mean its any less short of a master piece. its hyped for a reason, it holds all that hype but only for people who can handle it.
>Mittermeyer at the beach with his cousin
Please make it happen.
>What? No they aren't.
They are. There's nothing else to their personality. Heck, one character exists just to talk about women. I'm not even a feminist and that shit was annoying as hell.
I'd cry if the characters weren't cardboard cutouts. They just don't feel like people.
It's poor scifi simply for many reasons stated in the OP. Also it doesn't dwell into the science to even be considered a anything equal to or above a mediocre sci fi.
It's not poor sci-fi though.
Also do you know how broad the term sci-fi is? You're basically saying it's a poor show by saying it's poor sci-fi, which it's not. It's good.
>dwell into the science
Technobabble does not make for good science fiction.
PLEASE GOD NO.
Whats gonna be even worse is its not even gonna most Likely be even close to as long as the original version. they are gonna cut fucking whole arcs out.
This was such a fucking bad idea.
They should do it right or fucking leave it alone.
>Its the best space opera/drama ever made and you are talking down on it?
>you people have no fucking clue just how big on a grand scale this anime is. its a fucking masterpiece.
Are you trolling to try to make LoGH look bad?
>just because you cant handle politics
It doesn't even go deeply into economics and intra-faction politics to be considered a good political show. No offense but even the shit show Spooks is even better at politics than LoGH.
>They are. There's nothing else to their personality. Heck, one character exists just to talk about women. I'm not even a feminist and that shit was annoying as hell.
Um I think you should leave, you dont understand what fucking one-dimensional means. Some characters are gonna have more depth then others in a series like this, there are tons of characters.
Also you didn't pay attention at all, its a fucking amazing scifi and everything is explained. Also its more about politics,drama and history then scifi.
really just fuck off, this anime is not for you.
>It's not poor sci-fi though because I say so
Explain why instead of repeating your opinions as if they were self-evident truths.
>You're basically saying it's a poor show by saying it's poor sci-fi, which it's not. It's good
>it's not bad because it's good
Wow, great argumentation there...
>Technobabble does not make for good science fiction.
But it makes the science more believable which makes the happening of a good science fiction easier. The sci fi can still be shit but there's at least groundworks set. LoGH suffers on the long run from having an inconsistent world and not developing it.
Not him but I will say it is probably the best space opera made, and compared to 90% of anime out there it is very high up there in terms of greatness.
needless to say that doesn't mean everyone should love it and appreciate it as much as X does.
>It doesn't even go deeply into economics and intra-faction politics to be considered a good political show.
Name an anime that got more than 1 season and did a better job at explaining what you listed
Watch Crest/Banner of the Stars instead. Maybe you'll like it more.
Fuck it's great, go watch it right now.
>Explain why instead of repeating your opinions as if they were self-evident truths.
Explain why it's bad sci-fi.
>But it makes the science more believable
Technobabble does not make science more believable, it's best only use for exposition for things that will affect the plot (which LoGH does).
Sci-fi doesn't even need to have any technobabble. I don't know where you even pull 'explanations of technology make good sci-fi', it simply isn't even needed you can have a complete show-not-tell thing going on and still be great sci-fi.
>LoGH suffers on the long run from having an inconsistent world
NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED NEVER ENDED
NEW MATERIAL WHERE?
But it is just ridiculous how easily these fleets are destroyed. Single laser shot from a Valkyrie or Spartanites seem to down destroyer and frigates whilst a single main laser seems to be completely destroy mainline battleships and carriers.
Their armaments feel significantly more powerful than armored counters available to either side. It seems silly that much manpower is needed in the first place if they are just going to die immediately from crazy light shows without doing much of anything. I'm surprised that Imperial still has a batch of capable veterans considering FPA basically dried themselves out of capable officers by the end.
The main characters were one dimensional. That's the problem. I usually don't even care that much about one dimensional characters but when a show tries to do drama and include some tragic events, it's very hard to care for the characters.
> its a fucking amazing scifi and everything is explained
Very few things are explained, even by sci fi standards. How are lasers less lethal than bullets? Why are they using battle axes in the fucking future? People look exactly the same way they do now. Why is mass communications so limited?
The show just isn't creative enough.
>Their armaments feel significantly more powerful than armored counters available to either side.
What's interesting about this is that later on you can see designs start to incorporate more shielding/reflective designs and moving away from being completely blocky.
How the fuck can anyone ever talk shit about something like LOGH. I mean come on, you most likely are fucking watching moe shit instead i bet. Nothing ever comes close to LOGH.
Nothing has ever even tried, because it would take far to much work to pull off today.
>the anime's take on military strategies in sci fi setting is silly
I think you're a huge moron who doesn't know what he's talking about and who's regurgitating nonsense for the purpose of trolling. And do you know what makes me reach that conclusion? What you're talking about is not "strategy", it's "tactics".
Strategy is the lore of the use of battles for the purpose of war, tactics is the lore of the command of units in battle, as defined by General von Clausewitz.
Now, would someone who know what he's talking about make such a basic mistake? Probably not. But even under the assumption that you knew what you're talking about, would you mind telling what you think is wrong about the tactics represented?
>historical quotes are overused, the characters are too one-dimensional and some of them often seem infallible.
Complete nonsense. Historical quotes aren't that common, but even if they were - history and the repetition of it is one of the central themes of the show, so it would be hardly out of place. Characters being infallible is something I've never heard regarding LOGH, because plenty of people in charge are actually portrayed as quite incompetent in order to make the main characters shine more.
>Okay, so there are two factions but what about sub factions? What about supply problem (it's war)? What about the economy?
There's a third faction and supply is actually addressed when it comes to the invasion led by the FPA into Imperial territory. They fail because of logistics. The fact that LOGH even addresses this issue sets it apart from probably 95% of all entertainment media that deal with a similar subject.
>Does this show get better?
It's already good, you're just an idiot who set a bar too high that it has never been reached by any anime in existence (or any TV series, live-action film, etc.).
Not to mention that I'd question if it had that level whether you'd be able to even fully appreciate given your apparent ignorance.
Why didn't they just make a bunch of forts strap them with warp drives and teleport them into Heinessen space?
>It's a sci-fi
It's not about science fiction as much as it is about history, holy shit do you not see the cut away's where there is someone is explaining to an audience the HISTORY of the heroes, or how the narrator explains "this will go down in history as one of the most controversial moves". It takes place in a science fiction world and uses some sci-fi to progress the plot but in the end it is a show about a history lesson.
if you want a sci-fi go watch gurren laggen or similar show
Stop being a retard.
The show is a not a masterpiece. It's a mediocre show.
It's the only that takes itself seriously on a grand scale and fails to deliver on a grand scale. If it didn't take itself seriously, it'd be better. The show and its fans are pretentious.
Yeah, I used a fucking buzzword, sue me. The show is pretentious.
>Why are they using battle axes in the fucking future?
Maybe you should fucking pay attention when watching. Gas was released throughout the area that can cause an explosion to everyone in the affected area.
>How are lasers less lethal than bullets?
>Why are they using battle axes in the fucking future?
> Why is mass communications so limited?
It's like you didn't even pay attention during the show.
I don't even fault it for being a poor sci-fi, I'm stating that it's a bad sci fi in counter to people claiming it's a good sci fi.
The show would be better if it was set in ancient periods.
Thats what our fucking wars in space are gonna be like early on. its gonna be a fucking blood bath. war in space will only happen when there will be enough people to do it. that or it will be over in seconds.
This and many other space anime portray millions dying all the time. just think about gundam. Its just that logh uses ships instead. Actually if you didnt know before mobile suits in gundam they uses battle ships first and it was a blood bath too.
It's a lot things, but I don't see pretentious.
This anon gets it, the shows focus is more on humanity and its development and history, and how that influences the future. There's a reason Miracle Yang is a goddamn history junkie. The Sci Fi is secondary, but also well developed in its history.
>All those answered questions
This fucking fag.
>If it didn't take itself seriously, it'd be better.
Go watch your shit anime and fuck off.
I bet it doesn't hold a candle to anything LOGH did.
Also it deliver fucking all the time, i bet you didn't even watch it. You don't even have the brains or attention span to enjoy it.
>Does this show get better?
Maybe you're just an idiot. Most anime fans today are.
In that case, it would be impossible for you to enjoy actual good shows.
It's sad that you sat through 60 eps trying to pretend that you weren't an idiot.
>if you want a sci-fi go watch gurren laggen or similar show
Silliness aside. I am not sure how warp drive works and how capable is it in LOGH.
Gaiersberg is by no means close to Iserlohn so does that mean they actually physically pushed it or warped several times before reaching Iserlohn airspace? If so couldn't they have warped Gaiersberg behind Iserlohn fortress for better effect at least?
Also, what is the un-navigatable space? Story with Heinessen seems to describe it as simply space that is treacherous to sail through due to nothingness, but Battle of the Corridor shows some magnetic force destroying ships once they reach the border of the corridors. Am I confusing something here?
Agree'd I'm not sure why people don't get it's "sci-fi-ed" for the sake of showing that no matter what technology humanity developed in the world that LoGH takes place in, the core faults of our society are repeated.
The publication date of scifi isn't really an excuse. Asimov wrote fantastic scifi in the 50s.
Technobabble does not make for good science fiction. Neither do transporting classic and napoleonic history into space. LoGH proposes nothing, explores nothing, and answers nothing. It is an adequate war drama and precious little else. It has a few high points with regards to political commentary, but if a show with 100+ episodes didn't at least manage that much it'd be garbage.
How the fuck are you not enjoying every second of LOGH and i really think this post is just a troll at this point. I mean who would watch 60 eps of a show they didn't like. this must be the same guy also
Really I would just abandon the thread.
>Picking a team that got carried by one guy and would break down significantly without him
FPA would have won if there had been an equal playing field and the politicians weren't spergs
>it's not strategy, it's tactics
You're arguing semantics? Really? Fine, let's use the word "tactic" instead. My point still stands.
>But even under the assumption that you knew what you're talking about, would you mind telling what you think is wrong about the tactics represented?
I don't have too. Plenty of people in this thread already did.
Using an asteroid field to trick the opponent? Wow such a smart tactic... The enemy has scanners, they could have made use of them. But nope, they're too retarded to use one of the most basic technology in warfare to distinguish a sip and a fucking rock. And asteroid fields are not that clustered of asteroids for ship view.
This show insults the viewer.
>There's a third faction and supply is actually addressed when it comes to the invasion led by the FPA into Imperial territory
For an idiot that's unfamiliar with history, yeah the anime did a satisfactory job at explaining supply problems. But there is no supply chain explained, no explanation of how they secure their trade routes or what vehicle they use for them, the grandeur of their economy, etc...
>Not to mention that I'd question if it had that level whether you'd be able to even fully appreciate given your apparent ignorance.
Oh look, it's the typical 2deep argument. Fuck off. You're not intelligent. You're a retard.
LoGH is like a beautiful vase. On the surface it looks good and intelligent. But when you crack it, you find that it's empty. Is that necessarily a bad thing? Maybe not. But I prefer depth. The show just isn't deep and it certainly isn't complex.
All people want today is action and they have no attention span.
This anime inst for the new generation who just watch mindless shouen or jerk off to moe blobs. the people not calling this a masterpiece are funny. they have no clue just how famous this anime/series are books are.
>LoGH proposes nothing, explores nothing, and answers nothing.
It doesn't waste time with technobabble, but it does propose, explore and answer a lot when it comes to the political discourse within the show.
Sci-fi doesn't mean that time has to be wasted with discussing fictional tech.
LOGH asserts that certain things can be done with the tech and others can't, but it rarely goes into detail. Most of the criticism people have regarding the tactics it displays are based on assumptions about the tech, but they're rarely based on what has actually been portrayed in the show.
They would've won if Yang wasn't so principled.
I mean, shit, he could've blasted Reinhard right then and then in that one battle but didn't because MUH REPUBLIC, not that I don't agree with him, but man he had victory in the palm of his hand.
I want to say you are wrong but just looking at the catalog of /a/ proves you mostly right.
>If it doesn't have highschool girls it it why bother
>If magic/supernatural incorporated into most anime to make up for lazy writing
>if there is not a tsundere it's boring
>must have at least 4 waifus to choose from all going from the same cut out of: reserved hotty usually with dark hair, moe short girl, agressive red head, or girl who hates boys but likes the MC
no, not really. it just makes for an average war drama, with a shiny new background and immersion disruption.
I know I sure love it when my shows talk up a character as a military genius and then they actually show him making decisions and he's just a gigantic retard
hurr surround the enemy on a 2d plane in space! what could go wrong???
THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT THE SHOW WAS TRYING TO SHOW IN THE FAULTS OF A DEMOCRACY
HOLY SHIT HOW DO PEOPLE NOT GET THIS?
It's pretentious for many reasons including the tactics.
The show tries to make the viewer make it seem like the battles were won by supremely intelligent tactics but only shows big explosions and the aftermath. When it does show how some tactics are played out, it's some silly shit like using an asteroid field.
The lack of spying and actual defense positions (this has to do with strategy, where are the borders?) also hurts the show.
Saying they would have won doesn't indicate I didn't understand the show. It was simply a comment acknowledging that FPA martial leadership was stronger or would have been if used right.
I know this thread is rife with shit but easy on the trigger there m8.
At least with Gundam the I can acknowledge it's silliness just with the concept of mobile suits.
Even then One Year War was an apocalyptic scenario in which two sides have destroyed each others populace within a single year. This can be said to be a consequence of either side not really realizing the full extent of their destructive capabilities and later on became a do-or-die warfare of survival.
However, LOGH grounds itself in a "realistic" universe and we see these devastating battles have been occurring for centuries. Both sides at that point know their capabilities and have a much more expansive world and timeframe to supply these war efforts for a longer period. But even then I'd think that after a few years, the two factions would wear each other out after several battles of complete annihilation. I'd hope that they would be able to develop a more efficient way to war then blob of iron cans with people and make them shoot each other in space.
I may thinking too much into it, but I just feels odd how destructive these battles to me. Even the worst battles in history don't nonchalantly talk of casualty rates of even 30%.
No he wanted to fight for the government he believed in, he said he had high respect for the way Reinhart was leading the government and how fairly people were being treated but ultimentely he believed the people should be self governing because people like rhienhard are 1 in a million. This is the exact reason he did not join rhienhard after henessien was captured.
have you not even tried to pay attention to the show?
I wouldn't say he "hated" it, he liked the idea but he knew it was done for. reinhart was the only answer to everything. he still stuck to his ideals and fought for this side but in a way he envyd reinhart.
He knew the autocracy was better than his democracy. He wanted democracy to win however because autocracy is unstable as hell and democracy is, in his view the most viable way for humanity to function and move into the future.
As far as current governments go however yes, he totally loved the things Reinhard was doing but just knew that by its nature it would go to shit sooner or later in a big way.
>Using an asteroid field to trick the opponent? Wow such a smart tactic... The enemy has scanners, they could have made use of them.
What are "scanners"? How and how accurately do they work? You do realise that terrain is even used today to avoid detection? Aircraft tend to fly low to avoid radar, make use of terrain formations like hills or valleys to hide behind. If this works, don't you think that a huge field of rocks would be pretty good at avoiding detection from enemy sensors?
>But nope, they're too retarded to use one of the most basic technology in warfare to distinguish a sip and a fucking rock.
Good to know that you're such an expert on the fictional tech in the LOGH setting that you know about the capabilities of what their tech is able to do, the limitations, etc.
Your whole criticism is based on assumptions about the tech. Refer to what I wrote in >>119485168.
>For an idiot that's unfamiliar with history
I'm assuming you're talking about yourself here.
>yeah the anime did a satisfactory job at explaining supply problems.
Now it did a satisfactory job after all?
>But there is no supply chain explained
They did explain it to the point where it's understandable to the viewer that logistics are a relevant factor in warfare which sets apart LOGH from lots of shows of its kind. I don't know what else you'd like to see. Spreadsheets with supply lists?
>no explanation of how they secure their trade routes or what vehicle they use for them
Security of trade is actually something that is addressed in the show and I don't know what purpose it would serve to know what vehicles traders use in the setting. Probably the same types of vehicles that are otherwise used in a civilian context in LOGH. You do get to see those.
>the grandeur of their economy, etc...
Is addressed regarding Phezzan but again - you're spouting buzzwords of things you believe to be missing, but you fail to tell us why you think these aspects should be addressed in detail.
I enjoyed Mushishi (wasn't really intelligent but it was certainly more emotional than the shit Logh), Serial experiments Lain and Ghost in the Shell (especially the first SAC).
Stop with the "hurr durr people nowadays are dumb" and the ad hominem. Face it, LoGH isn't a smart show. It's easy to understand and that's what makes it so much cringe. It's like watching Sam Harris talk about philosophy.
I love it, but I think one possible reason everyone places it on a pedestal is that it was one of the first "serious" anime shows they watched when they were younger, me included. You never stop loving your first love, etc.
Please anon name some, I enjoyed LoGH so please name some that are more intelligent.
I get a kick out of this every time I see it.
They weren't at constant war though. They usually had a few battles which completely exhausted them and then they had to withdraw again, resulting in lengthy peaceful periods.
Only when Yang and Reinhard arrived, changing the constraints of warfare, Yang being the Odysseus who took Iserlohn through trickery, Reinhard installing a meritocracy where the most talented people could become officers opposed to those of the most noble birth, things changed significantly.
I think you're right in the regard that tech should have developed further, but I don't think it's detrimental to the viewing experience.
Could be the tech was so piss poor due to the things you mention in your post. As an earlier poster said, the ship designs and so on do start to change later on. From that it's possible that the reason tech hadn't advanced because after each battle/campaign before Yang and Reinhard the two states were exhausted and were just devoting everything to recovering/economy/whatever reason.
Give the war had technically been going on for ages, Yang and Reinhard really shook things up in the biggest way they could be shaken up.
Hooooooly shit, this thread is full of trolls and/or people who need to come out of their containment thread and interact with the rest of the board a little more often.
I hope to see some of you in some of the other threads on this board in the future. Maybe you'll learn something, too.
What do you mean by "tech not having advanced"?
Tech has crazily advanced in the setting, to the point of being so advanced in some fields like communication and weapon jamming that obvious tactics are obsolete.
This is a fair point. Both sides had practically been fighting to a stalemate for generations. It was only changes made by, Reinhard for example that allowed his faction to rejuvenate whereas Yang and the FPA were stagnant and fucked by the time Reinhard came around.
>what is semantics?
Are you telling me they don't have any technology that allows them to detect the enemy but they can travel long distances?
So they figured out how to travel faster than the speed of light but they don't understand how to apply the EM spectrum for detection of huge ships? Are you joking?
>You do realise that terrain is even used today to avoid detection?
Key word is "today". Radar technology shouldn't be stagnant. >>119485687
Right, objects that are much smaller than ships in space.
And they should be able to see ships with their eyes. It's not like asteroid clusters are so dense that they'll obstruct ships.
>Good to know that you're such an expert on the fictional tech in the LOGH setting that you know about the capabilities of what their tech is able to do, the limitations, etc.
It's hard to be when technology is pretty much nonexistent in LoGh that supposedly is a sci fi show...
>Your whole criticism is based on assumptions about the tech. Refer to what I wrote in >>119485168.
And I didn't mind much about the tech until they played a part in battles. There is no consistency, there's no logic in how the battles are turned out. It's hard to enjoy battles that try to be intelligent when one side is usually too retarded or when the smart side is manipulating technology that the show never explained.
>I'm assuming you're talking about yourself here.
I'm not the one claiming the show goes a satisfactory job explaining supply and economy.
>Now it did a satisfactory job after all?
You took that out of context. It's now clear you're a troll.
>it's understandable to the viewer that logistics are a relevant factor
And that's satisfactory to you? Are you really that fucking retarded?
>sets apart LOGH from lots of shows of its kind
A show should stand on it's own you fucking retard. It doesn't matter what other shows does or don't do. It doesn't matter what the source material is.
You're projecting a hell lot. SEL did make people (not all but some) think while watching it. Sure it's not pseudointellecual like LoGH, that's why anyone could be thinking while watching it. SEL actually is thought provoking.
>Probably the same types of vehicles that are otherwise used in a civilian context in LOGH
Then that's shit writing. And I hope for LoGH's sake that it doesn't dwell as to how they secure their trade routes.
>, but you fail to tell us why you think these aspects should be addressed in detail.
That's funny because you only say "Phezzam" in answer without actually giving any detail.
And no I'm not going to explain to you in much detail just like the anime didn't give any explanation and just wanted the viewers to accept what was going on without any skepticism.
Just curious but what was I projecting?
I liked Lain but even listening to the creator talking about it, the purpose was pretty much to entice the viewer to think their own shit.
Lain is like a good smell that makes you go out and buy a fancy dinner. Its a tease at intellectual thinking that makes you do the work yourself. Its convoluted (and entertaining) twists and turns are basically all fluff to tempt you into contemplation and speculation.
To return to the dinner analogy I'd say that LoGH was at least a meal. That is to say that it at least delivers something. It may not have provoked the same thought as Lain but it presented thoughts and views.
For the record I wouldn't say LoGH was particularly intellectual either, its just a good series that does what it sets out to do.
The show posits that jamming technology evolved faster than scanning technology did.
This theme is then reinforced by the introduction of two (made up) types of new particles: One that interfers with laser technology by possibly blowing everything in the vicinity up, and one that interfers with long distance space travel by giving you wrong data.
>Are you telling me they don't have any technology that allows them to detect the enemy but they can travel long distances?
Perhaps they do. Why would one be related to the other?
That aside however, they certainly do have sensors to detect the enemy. However, there is no indication regarding how they work or how accurate they are. Given that they often fight their battles at very close distances chances are their sensors aren't all that good. But even if they were good, the idea that they could be fooled by asteroid fields is anything but out of question. Sensors usually work by sending something out and waiting for it to be reflected back. If there are things that are physically "in the way" you'd obviously get something back that would be inconclusive.
>Key word is "today". Radar technology shouldn't be stagnant.
There are certain problems which will never be solved. But the point at hand is: they certainly haven't been solved in LOGH. Your criticism is based on your own assumption that they "should" be solved.
>Right, objects that are much smaller than ships in space.
In relation to asteroids space ships might seem small as well.
>And they should be able to see ships with their eyes.
They are occasionally fighting at visual distances but not always.
>It's hard to enjoy battles that try to be intelligent when one side is usually too retarded or when the smart side is manipulating technology that the show never explained.
What you see as tactics is rarely something super special in LOGH. Very often they rely on tactics that vaguely resemble historical ones. The show doesn't go into detail too much. Usually the viewer is indicated that one of the guys is incompetent by him having the mannerisms of someone incompetent, but the show doesn't actually explain why. The only odd technology thing that comes to my mind in LOGH are Zephyr particles, anything else doesn't really rely that much on things that are unique to the LOGH universe.
Not only that but opposing technologies and techniques growing at varying rates and having the advantage over the other is pretty common/realistic. Just look at the history of Cryptology.
The tactics of the battle were just a goddamn representation. They didn't have the budget or capability to show what was actually going on, so they simply hit the highlights. The point is that these men are one in a million, and the implications of such people in the respective societies that they represent. As for spying, I'm sorry but that is a minor complaint. I can understand it's importance in the middle of war, but it was not the focus of the show. This is not a strategy simulator, and once again actually strategy is not the focus, which is why it is pushed aside. Did you ever even wonder why the battle representations look like something out of a history book showing troop placement and movements with blocks and arrows?
>Just curious but what was I projecting?
That SEL makes you think post-series.
>the purpose was pretty much to entice the viewer to think their own shit.
Like philosophy? Okay.
>Its a tease at intellectual thinking that makes you do the work yourself.
For people who like to think instead of wanting everything handed to them on a silver plate, which the LogH fanbase clearly isn't if they think the poor handling of tactics, politics and drama was anything intelligent.
>LoGH was at least a meal
And a fancy dinner can't be a meal? Look, if you want to do an analogy, at least do it right.
>but it presented thoughts and view
So did Lain. The difference is that in Lain, the questions don't have clear answers. They're big questions. They're not supposed to have easy answers.
continuation of >>119486883
>You took that out of context. It's now clear you're a troll.
No, I quoted you.
>And that's satisfactory to you?
Yes, that's satisfactory to me. Again: what else would you like to see? People processing spreadsheets with supply lists? The fact that it addresses this aspect sets LOGH apart from other shows of its kind.
>A show should stand on it's own you fucking retard. It doesn't matter what other shows does or don't do. It doesn't matter what the source material is.
No, a show is always judged in context. There is no such thing as "standing on its own" - whenever you apply criticism, you refer to things you've seen before elsewhere.
The criticism you hold against LOGH also applies to pretty much any other science-fiction show or film out there. You set a bar high to a degree where it has never been reached. And in fact you're doing so unreasonably, demanding a level of detail which simply doesn't matter to the plot and the central theme of the show.
Legend of the Galactic Heroes is a character driven space drama, which is highly romanticized for males who like camaraderie (some argue gay overtones), and you shouldn't judge it for what it isn't, but judge it for what it is.
Around episode 60 I grew weary of the show as well, but you should really push on, afterall, the best episode is 76. that was the turning point that made me realize that it is one of the few masterpieces of anime.
Why the fuck are there people in this thread that compare LoGH to SEL?
They barely share anything with each other. This is the WORST COMPARISON I HEARD THIS YEAR.
>Why would one be related to the other?
Just asking that question shows that physics isn't your strong suit. That's okay if we weren't fucking arguing about a sci-fi. No wonder why you don't care about technology and dismissed it as "babble" , let me guess you're an artsie person? Nothing wrong with that but I think you're enjoying LoGH for the wrong reasons.
>Given that they often fight their battles at very close distances chances are their sensors aren't all that good
That's another flaw with the show. The enemy should be able to tell the difference between an asteroid and a ship. There's a big difference between the two and you don't need a sensor. You can do so with binoculars. If anything the asteroid field should give the enemy cover. But the show can't work without convenient storytelling.
>They are occasionally fighting at visual distances but not always.
Most of the time they are. And in this instance, the ones who wanted to make use of the asteroid field wanted to fight at visual distance.
>Very often they rely on tactics that vaguely resemble historical ones.
That's a another problem with the show. Using old tactics in a futuristic setting. As explained above, it just simply doesn't make any sense.
I agree with you that LogH is unique. There's no other work that merge ancient with future and made it look retarded. Dune does a far better job at merging ancient and future.
The analogy was sound just not clear. What I'm saying is that Lain isn't a fancy meal. It can make you want one sure but you have to go and find it yourself. Its a much better springboard for thought than LoGH but it is only a spring board. You can (and I have seen people do it) watch Lain and simply question the narrative. Who did what, what happened and how. That simplified interaction doesn't even ask the big question you're suggesting is mandatory. LoGH on the other hand asks smaller more mundane questions but it asks them clearly and presents points to them. Its not just a series of intellectual hooks baited around the series hoping that you'll take the lead and run off with their tangent.
Simpler, yes. More mundane, yes. More intellectual, I wouldn't say so. Lain is a perfect example of projection and interpretation. The show doesn't so much ask questions as it creates the doubts necessary for you to question on your own.
Not saying its worse just different.
>This is not a strategy simulator
That's a poor excuse. For a show that's longer than 75+ episodes, it couldn't show at least one scene of spying? Really? Not one line of dialogue mentioning spying?
Also, spying has always been part of history and politics.
You seemed to just prove that you didn't actually watch the show. There is an Admiral that is captured by the Empire and spies for the Empire.
LOGH is about governance, most of all. For the time it came out, everything was massively incoherent in anime and overloaded with unneeded complexity. Have you ever watched Gundam, or Zeta Gundam? Jesus christ, I watched Zeta Gundam and I had to watch LOGH or else I worried I would become stupider.
Dune is literally just a retelling of Lawrence of Arabia. LOGH is a ground-breaking work.
"Hello, I'm a rude asshole that didn't watch this show and keeps criticizing moot or factually incorrect points."
>No, I quoted you.
Out of context. For someone who has such a hard on about context, you seem to not know what it means...
>what else would you like to see?
Like I said, how does their economy work. Supply sheets doesn't fucking explain that. I'm not asking for a thorough explanation. And regarding the supply lines, there's no explanation of that either.
>a show is always judged in context
>whenever you apply criticism, you refer to things you've seen before elsewhere.
Quote me verbatim what shows I referred to elsewhere. Go ahead.
>The criticism you hold against LOGH also applies to pretty much any other science-fiction show or film out there.
You haven't seen or read much sci fi.
>demanding a level of detail which simply doesn't matter to the plot and the central theme of the show.
The show isn't just praised for the plot and theme you dipshit. It's also praised by many for being a sci fi with intelligent writing when it comes to tactics but that's simply false . Stop playing the ignorant.
LOGH is not a science fiction show first and foremost. It has always been recognized as first and foremost a space opera and the most often criticized part is the relatively Napoleonic battle sequences, but in the context of the show it rather makes quite a bit of sense.
I'm a different anon, and even I know that the show addresses the supply line issues, which is why FPA lost their foothold into the Empire.
The purpose of having this multitude of characters is that their commanded reflects their character. There is, undoutably, an honor complex instilled into the show as well, which is why no one in space is wearing some sort of suit incase they are ejected. You go down with your ship, m8.
>What I'm saying is that Lain isn't a fancy meal
Oh so now you're saying it's not? Okay.
>That simplified interaction doesn't even ask the big question you're suggesting is mandatory.
Because there is no such thing as that simplified interaction when it comes to SEL. It's not supposed to be lazy viewing.
>LoGH on the other hand asks smaller more mundane questions but it asks them clearly and presents points to them
In SEL some of the questions by episodes 10 to 13 are very clear. Can a god still be a god without followers? Do people and other objects exist outside of memory? Questions like these were very clear at the end.
LoGH seems like it has clearer questions because it keeps repeating them over the span of more than 75+ episodes.
>Are you telling me they don't have any technology that allows them to detect the enemy but they can travel long distances?
If you've paid attention you'd know they do. Except the either side, 99% of the time, blocked communications and scanners and such
>let me guess you're an artsie person?
I've studied maths. My knowledge of physics is indeed a bit limited but I'm fairly certain I have a basic understanding of what's involved there.
Please educate me why the technology to make space ships travel long distances is connected to the technology of detecting space ships through asteroid fields. And don't try to change the subject, I'm eagerly interested in hearing your enlightening views on that matter from an expert such as yourself who likes LOGH for all the "right" reasons.
>There's a big difference between the two and you don't need a sensor. You can do so with binoculars. If anything the asteroid field should give the enemy cover. But the show can't work without convenient storytelling.
You assume that everything takes place at visual distances and that people are busy staring with binoculars at asteroid fields in the distance all day. Chances are it's neither taking place at visual distances, nor do people bother with scanning space visually. When it comes to sensors, I think you're overestimating sensor capabilities. And you're most certainly overestimating LOGH sensor capabilities. Again, your whole criticism is based on assumptions about technology that have never been portrayed in the show.
>Most of the time they are. And in this instance, the ones who wanted to make use of the asteroid field wanted to fight at visual distance.
Distances are rather hard to estimate. More often than not, spaceships are merely points in the distance. From time to time they close in, but that doesn't mean that they're easily visible - there's no indication that they are. Assumptions again.
>For the time it came out
Fair point but this isn't the 80s.
>Dune is literally just a retelling of Lawrence of Arabia
And LoGH is just a retelling of War and Peace. See? I can make dumb references too.
>LOGH is a ground-breaking work.
It's too inconsistent in its narrative to be anything ground-breaking.
>That's a another problem with the show. Using old tactics in a futuristic setting. As explained above, it just simply doesn't make any sense.
Again you're displaying ignorance of military history. From the very first post I've told you that you've no idea what you're talking about as indicated by you mistaking strategy and tactics. Certain tactical principles don't become outdated. Why do you think could Frederick the Great apply the oblique order tactics in the 18th century that were last applied in the antique period at Leuctra? Why do you think was Count Schlieffen obsessed with fighting a battle like Hannibal did at Cannae in his attempt to encircle the French lines with the strong push through Belgium? The underlying abstract principles don't change.
You make a big fuzz about the knowledge you believe to possess from your high horse of being half-educated, but you simply have no idea what you're talking about.
See this pic? That's you.
>inconsistent in its narrative
How is it inconsistent? Instead of regurgitating what you've seen on /a/, how about you give actual proper reasons grounded with concrete examples from the show?
Most of the confusion that stems from Lain is not necessarily the philosophical questions it asks, but in the storytelling.
Let's be honest, here, obscurity is fine as a means of relaying an interesting story to you. My biggest problem with Lain was that it was actually a lot more interesting in the first six episodes, when Lain being a
computer programwas a lot more ambiguous.
>And LoGH is just a retelling of War and Peace.
Did you even read War and Peace, anon? If you have, then you're confusing themes with plot.
>It's too inconsistent in its narrative to be anything ground-breaking.
I find it to be the complete opposite. What LOGH captures most importantly, is a vast history decided by a multitude of characters. What narrative for you is broken? Reinhard wants the universe, Yang Wen-li just wants to retire. There is your constant.
Since it's done by the same director, and I don't feel like starting a new thread, can anyone tell me how hikaru can be such a dick? I'm on episode 33 and goddamn, it's painful to watch how much of an asshole he is to hayase.
>I heard that they colors were washed or some other terrible thing,
Some scenes were redrawn, others weren't, so the artstyle could sometimes suddenly (after cuts) change.
I noticed it sometimes (before actually having been told this), but it didn't bother me.
It is debatable, whether the old or new style is better. I don't know what to recommend you.
>asteroid field tactic
You're really fucking hung up on this asteroid filed shit aren't you? Jesus fucking christ for a guy claiming that the show is so simple, you sure have a fucking hard time understanding it. And again, you're just using terms like "narrative" when you don't know what it fucking means. This entire thread can be summed up to you and the OP basically shitflinging about something that you're literally too fucking dumb to understand.
I would say the BDs are perfectly fine, and like another anon said some scenes were redrawn so take that as you will. The majority of those scenes lie around the 2nd season and the end of the 4th season
>Please educate me why the technology to make space ships travel long distances is connected to the technology of detecting space ships through asteroid fields
One technology deals with traveling distances at a faster speed than light, the other technology is the use of light.
I'm going to assume you have enough synapses to connect the dots.
>You assume that everything takes place at visual distances
Strawman fallacy. I didn't make that argument. I'm talking about a single instance that they were fighting at visual distance and that they usually are, not always.
>Chances are it's neither taking place at visual distances
Most of the time they are fighting at visual distance.
>there's no indication that they are
Virtually all battles shown shows that the ships are detected. Especially when the "camera" is literally from within the view viewing toward an enemy ship.
>The underlying abstract principles don't change.
It does when you're in empty space where there is little to no obstacles and no terrain.
>See this pic? That's you.
You're projecting. It's why you're mentioning old old battles thinking you understand them but you're missing the common theme of these battles: they were all fought on earth. You're a pretentious retard.
>If you have, then you're confusing themes with plot.
Retelling isn't inherent to plot. When you're claiming it's a re-telling, you're assuming the plot AND themes are the same.
>but in the storytelling.
It wasn't about story telling much like LoGH isn't about science anyway we're talking about intelligent works, why does that matter?
Jesus man. I understand watching LOGH is some wizard fag achievement but you need to chill the fuck out.
The show used sci-fi devices as background to push it main narrative of, albeit basic, political themes of government, humanism, and rights of the people and the state. You're right, the scientific aspects of it are probably shit. That being said, it's a poorly funded cult favorite that managed to scrap together enough money to make over 100+ episodes over more than a decade. It's narrative is its strong point and it only sprinkles in pieces of sci-fi to flesh out the environment and make it more interesting than writing about or animating a conversation in the oval office or parliament. Enjoy the show for what it is and, if you can, try to ignore its faults because something like this doesn't come around often in the medium. Either that or just stop fucking watching it and bust a nut because you seriously need to chill the fuck out.
It's simple but not consistent. Again, the strategy is simple to understand but the tactic doesn't make sense. And it certainly isn't consistent with the technology, nor with the presumably "intelligent" military leaders.
Heck, be glad I'm criticizing this aspect of the show and not the cardboard cutout characters. That's one of the biggest problems for a show that's supposed to be a soap opera.
>inb4 hurr durr no, LoGH is a show about HISTORY!
I hate Hikaru, but I also understand that he is around 16, 17 years old at this time? He's a young man and Misa Hayase is a sligthly older, more worldly young woman who doesn't have to put up with little boy'sl shit - and because of that mindset, it pisses Hikaru off IIRC. "women mature faster than men" and all that.
actually, no, in fact, re-tellings are often deconstructed or subverted.
>it wasn't about storytelling
but it is, lain is a visual experience, granted, but first and foremost there is a story to tell, and one that i love, but let's not proclaim lain to be the most esoteric anime out there; that ending was astoundingly simple and in another direction completely from what the focus seemed to be in episodes 1-7