Who else would be in this game besides this two obvious fucks?
From these season alone Kanya and Maybe the juice man, hes got his issues though
The Juice has massive fucking emotional problems from what I remember, but his character design and how he acts from time to time would probably lead you to think he might be a gary stu.
But I think this guys deserves a honorable mention.
Anyone who thinks this is bait should be permanently IP range banned from /a/.
It's actually sickening that there are people here who not only don't understand that this guy is the worst self-insert possibly, they actually think he's an original character.
Do you autists not understand that all autists fantasize about being this autist? Everyone who wasn't popular sees themselves as the straight man and fantasizes about being dragged into social situations why wacky and eccentric people.
No, I want to ban everyone who said Hachiman is an original and unique character.
I want to ban everyone who thinks that he isn't a wish-fulfillment self-insert.
You can like him only if you're able to see how dime a dozen and pandering he is.
A Gary Stu is a wish fulfillment self insert, and he's the worst one Japan has ever created.
8man isn't a Gary Stu. Gary Stus are self-inserts by the authors, and by default have to have the world centered around them. That isn't the case for 8man, even though 8man is meant for people to self-insert (meaning to put themselves in the MC shoes) he isn't a Gary Stu.
He is a self-insert by the author as well.
>and by default have to have the world centered around them
It does. The fact that you can't see that is bothersome.
Why can't you idiots understand THAT EVERY FUCKING LOSER IN THE WORLD SEES THEMSELVES AS THE STRAIGHT MAN? THERE IS NOT A SINGLE
in the world who doesn't see themselves as a clever straight man surrounded by eccentricities?
He's the most low effort, bargain bin character you can find in anime. There are thousands of him out there, and he is made to pander and for self insertion fantasies.
Man I remember the Mahouka threads when it was airing and people were saying Tatsuya wasn't a self-insert or a Gary Stu
You're making me embarrassed to be on /a/.
Everything you listed isn't actually a flaw. It's plays into his character type. He's supposed to be unpopular, rude, and friendless. That's the whole point of the wish-fulfillment. He's the straight man who's NOT LIKE THOSE OTHER PEOPLE, who marches to the beat of his own drum. He's what gross otaku idealize themselves as. His flaws are the Japanese equivalent of Hollywood flaws.
A Gary Stu and a Villain Sue in the same picture.
Also, you seem to be misunderstanding the main point here.
You seem to think that Hachiman is a self-insert, as in he's there for the audience to "relate to".
He's a self-insert in the sense that he's there for the audience to fantasize about being. He's a perfect, immaculate character type. He is perfect in his own way, you just can't see it.
Your definition is so broad it is meaningless. It's pretty common for the protagonist of any work of fiction to be the target of self-insertion by readers, regardless of how well they are written.
I think some of you are confusing a "gary stu" with the typical protag/self insert.
The gary stu is supposed to be awesome invincible liked/feared/lusted after by all and have the entire world bend to them in their way.
Yes even in ways that make them feel ways that suck, like angry sad etc etc.
8man is the kind of person who would complain about the MC of his actual favorite series being a Gary Stu in the first place but continue to read it because he's a giant faggot
You guys aren't really getting it, which is really sad.
You think that Hachiman is just some loser guy, so you're assuming that we think that "Gary Stu" equals "someone you relate to".
Hachiman is a Gary Stu in the purest sense of the word, in that he's a perfect fantasy that most people who watch anime in Japan fantasize as being.
>BUT HE HAS FLAWS
As explained above, these are Hollywood flaws that create the fantasy. If he were captain of the Judo team, he wouldn't be a Gary Stu. It's BECAUSE he's a loser that he's such a fucking perfect character.
Half the school hates and the other half wants to use him. Not even his own sister truly loves him, she's just obsessed with him.
How in the blue blazes is Tatsuya a Gary Stu?
>a character some actual people relate to is a Gary Stu ONLY because some actual good things happen to him
What exactly is Hachiman so good at in an unbelievable way, again, anon? Talking to girls while actually being a shithead?
If an author dies halfway through a series, can another artist pick it up after they're gone, or is it in bad taste? Wonder what the copy write laws are like in area 11, would love to see it finished.
Holy shit you are dense. If he was captain of a judo team, the only way to be a gary stu is if you were an undefeated national champion that is still undefeated throughout the anime. Being a loser is not perfection.
Since when is being extremely unpopular a Hollywood flaw? His flaws are extremely negative in the real world, and while it's true that he's a self-insert for other outcast types, very few people want to be like 8man, and most of the people who tell themselves they prefer to be that way are only doing it as a defense mechanism and are usually in a lot of pain. 8man himself is in a lot of pain which is the actual point of the 8man as Batman scene and every flashback that explains why he thinks the way he does.
>Being a loser is not perfection.
YES IT IS YOU OTAKU FAGGOT
You don't want Hachiman to be a Gary Stu, because you're in love with him. That alone should let you know what a fucking Gary Stu he is.
He's a loser, yet he retains his dignity and doesn't embarrass himself by pining after the "normalfags" and their social lives. He's this incredible straight man who just wants to be left alone, but instead all the WACKY female characters keep trying to drag him away from his comfort zone.
He is an unrealistic, unattainable power fantasy that every otaku in Japan wants to be.
>Since when is being extremely unpopular a Hollywood flaw?
When the audience idealizes being unpopular.
But seriously, are you trying to be stupid? One person's Gary Stu might be a prince. Another person's Gary Stu might be a low-born man. Each can be a fantasy to different people. To otaku, being someone popular and well loved is a negative trait.
>His flaws are extremely negative in the real world
Not to otaku.
>very few people want to be like 8man
>and most of the people who tell themselves they prefer to be that way are only doing it as a defense mechanism and are usually in a lot of pain
>8man himself is in a lot of pain
And that's a Hollywood flaw. Being in pain is not a negative.
A realistic character is someone like Tomoko. She has no dignity. She is an absolute bottom feeder of a person, who fails at everything. Hachiman is a Gary Stu fantasy character for losers, who fantasize about being outcasts, but retaining their dignity and value nonetheless.
Goddamn anon, he can be whatever the fuck he wants, but in the state he is in, it does not make him a gary stu because he's not perfect in his world. He has not done anything incredible or impossible. Having girls around him does not make him a gary stu either, that is optional for a gary stu, being a self insert is too. This is a gary stu, Tatsuya is, Kirito is. 8man is not, he's a self insert but NOT a gary stu.
>He's a loser, yet he retains his dignity and doesn't embarrass himself by pining after the "normalfags" and their social lives.
Being a pretentious cunt and the closest anime has gotten to portraying a trenchcoat+fedora wearing faggot makes you a Gary Stu now? Hachiman is fucking insufferable
>real life loser
-fat, ugly, sweaty, has acne, looks like a toad
>gary stu fantasy loser
-in shame, relatively good looking, clean skin, has "sharp eyes"
>real life loser
-desperately wants to be popular and accepted and do normalfag things
>gary stu fantasy loser
-just wants to be left alone in his own world and do his own personal hobbies
>real life loser
-constantly says retarded, awkward things and makes a fool of himself
>gary stu fantasy loser
-straight man who sighs and has a witty internal monologue, while other wacky people say wacky things around him
>real life loser
>gary stu fantasy loser
-only has the slightest interest in romance and almost none at sex
>real life loser
-has no dignity
>gary stu fantasy loser
>real life loser
-nobody cares about him or notices him
>gary stu fantasy loser
-for whatever reason has people pestering him, preventing him from leading his quiet life
rain easily beat keyritoh, onii-sama, touman, etc.
He IS a Gary Stu by several orders of magnitude more than the Mahouka protagonist is. You don't even know what a Gary Stu is, you fucking newfag. A Gary Stu isn't someone who shoots beams out of his face and wins fights all the time, you fucking idiot.
>real life loser
-desperately wants to be popular and accepted and do normalfag things
>gary stu fantasy loser
-just wants to be left alone in his own world and do his own personal hobbies
Are you fucking retarded?
Are you fucking retarded shitposters serious?
Do you think everyone sees Sakamoto as a perfect person? Do you think everyone sees James Bond as a perfect person?
One person sees the former and thinks, "What a loser, he's not even fucking all the girls at school". Another person sees the latter and thinks, "What a loser, he can't even be happy and get married".
There is no such thing as a Gary Stu for everyone. Characters like Hachiman are Gary Stus for losers, especially otaku. He is a perfect character for the people who love him.
Let me explain why I think that's retarded. Not every loser want to join with society, this can be in fact be part of their special form of loserdom. There are many types of losers and you can not separate it into "Loser" and "Gary Stu Loser".
No, you idiot. Tomoko is not a Gary Stu, because she lacks dignity and is worse than everyone in every way.
Characters like Hachiman are Gary Stus because they idealize being a loser and make him a dignified straight man, rather than the awkward, stuttering, absolute failure he is.
>what you think losers fantasize about
-"ONE DAY I'M GOING TO BE A SUPER STRONG HERO AND GET THE GIRL AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO SAY TO MAKE EVERYONE LOVE ME!"
>what losers actually fantasize about
"Ha ha, I'm not like those normalfags with their wasted expenditures. I can see that life is all about going with the flow and not putting in too much effort. Ah, I can't wait to go home and work on my puzzles and play chess. Ha ha, I'm just like an old grandpa, aren't I? Yep, my ideal world is just to be left alone and do quiet things".
>The alternative is Mirai Nikki or something, from your awful definition.
Shinji and Yukiteru are slightly better characters than the Hachiman archetypes. They're effeminate losers who desperately crave friendship and acceptance, but always fall flat on their fucking faces. But what mucks it up is the fact that they both have special abilities and have girls fawning all over them.
They're not Gary Stus, but they still fall under the umbrella of wish-fulfillment archetypes.
>There is no such thing as a Gary Stu for everyone.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
>Characters like Hachiman are Gary Stus for losers, especially otaku.
Where is the evidence?
>He is a perfect character for the people who love him.
>He's a loser, yet he retains his dignity and doesn't embarrass himself by pining after the "normalfags" and their social lives. He's this incredible straight man who just wants to be left alone, but instead all the WACKY female characters keep trying to drag him away from his comfort zone.
You're reading things on the surface. Just look at this shit. It isn't gospel; it's what most anyone would see it as, the pathetic musings of some bitter loser.
On the surface, Hachiman is the ideal loner and people of course identify with him or want to be in his place, since this is set up like the average LN romcom. But what disqualifies Hachiman as a Gary Stu isn't that he's a loser, but that his loser mentality has a negative impact on his life. He really isn't satisfied being alone and he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. But he's going to keep lying and digging deeper into a hole.
This isn't what the otaku and anon want to be. Like Shinji, this is who they really are.
Self-insert/wish-fulfillment, overpowered and Gary Stu do not have the same meaning, although most of them have element of the others that play into their meaning.
Tatsuya is overpowered and badly written, but I don't know if he's a gary stu(self inset of the author), as that title goes to Miyuki
8man is mostly self-insert for readers
Kirito is probably a combination of all 3
This is the reason: >>119347826
I have no particular hatred for Hachiman other than the fact that idiots gravitate towards him, without seeing what a cheap Gary Stu he is. I've seen threads where people have gone as far as to call him an original character.
It doesn't take an intellect to understand how perfect characters like Hachiman are. A fifth grader could point out that his "flaws" are what make him desirable.
Saying he isn't a Gary Stu is like saying someone like, say, Hawkeye from Last of the Mohicans isn't a Gary Stu, because he's a homeless wanderer. The whole reason Hawkeye is so idealized is that he's a noble savage who's "above" material things, like castles and land ownership.
It's hilarious watching you go back and forth.
>You don't understand, a Gary Stu isn't a self-insert.
>You don't understand, a Gary Stu isn't a perfect character.
Just admit that you don't know what a Gary Stu is.
Yes, because he has dignity. In real life, nearly all losers lack dignity. If you want to write a realistic loser, the first step is to take away his dignity.
Hachiman is what losers fantasize about being: a dignified, disinterested straight man living in his own little world.
That is not a gary stu at all. Being a lose is not being a gary stu. Liking a character for the purpose of self insertion is not either.
>this is who they really are
It isn't, though. That's the point.
Hachiman is NOT who otaku really are. Tomoko is who they really are. Hachiman is who they want to be.
Yes, deep down inside he wants to be accepted. Yes, his personality is something of a facade. That's not really the point. Nobody in real life can be Hachiman. You can't be as disinterested as him. You can't be as cool-blooded as him. You can't enter into situations like he gets dragged into without making an absolute fool of yourself.
In real life, losers are awkward and ignored. In the fantasy world, losers are kind of cool in their own way and always have someone trying to drag them out of their hole.
Are you really that retarded? Since when Mary Sue character are liked by those who read them?
Mary Sue characters are totally and utterly despised by readers, while they are totally revered in the story they are in.
You are trying to make a point that Hachiman is a Gary Stu because he's the perfect model for Otaku (who watch the anime) while he is a loser in the story he is in. Which is the POLAR OPPOSITE of what happens with any Gary Stu character.
>Yes, because he has dignity.
>In real life, nearly all losers lack dignity.
>If you want to write a realistic loser, the first step is to take away his dignity.
>Hachiman is what losers fantasize about being
People would say that Sakamoto is perfect, but others would disagree.
People would say that James Bond is perfect, but others would disagree.
What you consider perfect is dependent on your own values. Some people might see royalty as part of perfection, while others still might consider being self-made as part of perfection. Some people might consider wealth part of perfect, while others might consider a lack of possessions as part of perfection.
>Mary Sue characters are totally and utterly despised by readers
Then I guess Kirito isn't a Gary Stu, since he's fairly well beloved. He's hated on /a/, sure, but by legitimate fans of SAO, he's well-liked.
See, you're just going back and forth on the definition of Gary Stu. You honestly don't know what it means.
I don't know why, but I have a hard time considering the Major a Mary Sue. She fits most of the usual criteria, far better than any other Shirow female, but it just feels wrong.
Not every loser is a depressive wreck, constantly looking for validation, even if there are moments--but just who isn't that true for? If you truly believe this, I think you just lack empathy, experience with losers, and/or observational skills.
Lots of people would disagree. For most people, finding a soulmate is the ultimate pursuit. James Bond is basically a manwhore who has to go from girl to girl because he can't commit. And remember when Goldfinger had him in the laser and James had to lie like a bitch to get out of it? That's not very Gary Stu-ish.
>but by legitimate fans of SAO, he's well-liked.
All "legitimate fans" of SAO I know are retarded kids who keep denying that Kirito is a Gary Stu.
Anyone who states that Kirito is a Gary Stu while claiming that SAO is a good show, clearly doesn't understand the implication of what "Gary Stu" character means: bad writing.
In this thread you have defined being in pain because of rejection by society/peers as a hollywood flaw and fucking every hot chick you see as an actual flaw. This is why no one is buying your definition of Gary Stu
Underneath the bullshit, Hachiman is who they really are. Sure Tomoko is more explicit case but Watamote is of a different nature anyway while this is presenting itself as an anti-romcom.
I think this series shows how losers can be their own problem and the 'cool' is just a covering. Losers get their fantasy self but it's still unpleasant.
Didn't you hear? Sasha Gray is one of the most dignified, intelligent women alive.
She only did porn because her boyfriend lied about being in the CIA and told her she needed to do porn and eat jizz off of toilet seats as part of his cover story.
Dignity doesn't exist in a vacuum. How much dignity you have is dependent on how people see you.
If some fratboy is running naked across the frat house with his pants down, trying to get to the bathroom, and accidentally poops his pants, everyone would think it was hilarious. All his bros would slap him on the back and laugh at him, and he'd laugh with them.
If a loser was running with his pants down, trying to reach the bathroom, and accidentally pooped his pants, it'd be a soul crushing moment that would scar him for life. Nobody would let him hear the end of it and he'd probably end up committing suicide.
If you say that by having notable social flaws, you can't be Mary Sue, then why /a/ always blames Sora from NGNL for being a Mary Sue?
Inb4 HURRR always wins. He doesn't win alone. It's actually Shiro who does most of the work always inside the games and he's there just for the meta-strategy, and in the LN there was already a case of Shiro doing that part as well.
>How in the blue blazes is Tatsuya a Gary Stu?
What you're doing is creating this idea of a loser and trying to force everyone you define as a loser into it, and it just doesn't work that way. I'm telling you that not every piece of shit stinks the same.
>In this thread you have defined being in pain because of rejection by society/peers as a hollywood flaw
Are you actually trying to say that isn't?
Holy fuck, you people will go to any lengths to defend your delusions. Even among normalfags, that kind of thing is a Hollywood flaw. Everyone idealizes a character who is mistreated by popular people. That isn't even something unique to otaku.
>ucking every hot chick you see as an actual flaw
I love catching you idiots in contradictions. As I've already pointed out, Sakamoto doesn't fuck anyone, yet he's still called a Gary Stu.
How do you rationalize that? I'm waiting.
>Everyone idealizes a character who is mistreated by popular people. That isn't even something unique to otaku.
That's pity, not idolization. You pity 8man, you don't want to be him or in his situation, especially when the girls are complete bitches.
>Underneath the bullshit, Hachiman is who they really are
No, it isn't.
No loser is a straight man.
No loser is that disinterested in sex and romance.
No loser "just wants to be left alone".
No loser has wacky, attractive people who need him for some reason.
No loser retains his dignity.
Tomoko isn't a special case; she's nearly every loser.
>I think this series shows how losers can be their own problem and the 'cool' is just a covering.
Hachiman isn't just pretending to be cool. He's cool in a very unrealistic way.
I know you fantasize about being Hachiman, but you can't actually be him. You're Tomoko. You just want to be Hachiman.
Under that logic, Nozomu Itoshiki is also a Gary Stu
Hell, that would even make Tomoko a Mary Sue
"The term "Mary Sue" comes from the name of a character created by Paula Smith in 1973 for her parody story "A Trekkie's Tale"published in her fanzine Menagerie The story starred Lieutenant Mary Sue ("the youngest Lieutenant in the fleet — only fifteen and a half years old"), and satirized unrealistic Star Trek fan fiction. Such characters were generally original female adolescents who had romantic liaisons with established canonical adult characters, or in some cases were the younger relatives or protégées of those characters"
Taken from wikipedia but the point is that origin of the word comes from a flawless and invincible character written by a third-rate writer. The term is used NOT used to mock general self-insert but rather the perfect, two dimensional characters. Now that we're clear with the definition of "gary stu", I think the problem is not the term "Gary Stu" but the term "self-insert" which is too broad. Gary stu is a character that is perfect and have the world in their hands; far from relatable. Self- insert in this context is someone everyone WANTS to be. As for hachiman, he is your typical edgy teenager on puberty; far from a gary stu. Now, self- insert in this context is someone relatable to most people, you can UNDERSTAND where they are coming from.
>That's pity, not idolization.
No, it really is idealization.
Harry Potter is idealized because he's a mistreated orphan. If he didn't have that background, his character wouldn't be as special.
Going through hardships and having a low birth is something a lot of people romanticize.
Why even encourage people into telling themselves they're like anime characters? They're unrealistic in a way that is entertaining (to enough people, at least). If anything anons here need to realize they don't even reach the level of 'loser' characters. They're no one and they have no value outside of what their poor mothers might feel for them. I'm not claiming to be different, either.
>Self- insert in this context is someone everyone WANTS to be.
That's the fucking point. Everyone who watches anime wants to be Hachiman.
>As for hachiman, he is your typical edgy teenager on puberty; far from a gary stu
I don't want to keep copypasting the same things, so stop this shit alright. He's not even close to being typical. He's more unrealistic than a character that can blow up planets with his mind.
I'm talking about how you characterized James Bond. You can tell because I was responding to your post that talked about James Bond.
People don't want to be in emotional pain. People are empathetic towards others in pain. But people don't want to be in pain themselves.
>No loser is a straight man.
>No loser is that disinterested in sex and romance.
Did you even watch it? Hachiman is actually interested in both. He's full of shit.
>No loser "just wants to be left alone".
Just another lie on his part.
>No loser has wacky, attractive people who need him for some reason.
Even if they did, their mentalities would push them away.
>No loser retains his dignity.
Hachiman has no dignity to retain.
>Hachiman isn't just pretending to be cool. He's cool in a very unrealistic way.
For you because you clearly buy into the lies, since you're not a smart viewer.
Here's your reply, you won't be getting another.
>If anything anons here need to realize they don't even reach the level of 'loser' characters
They don't. That's the problem.
/a/ is full of delusional idiots who think that Gary Stus are battle shounen heroes and that characters like Hachiman are original, well-written characters who accurately paint the human condition.
/a/ needs to realize that it's easier to be Kirito than it is to be Hachiman.
Harry Potter is a normal boy living in unfortunate circumstances who is suddenly told he is in fact magical Jesus. Without the magical Jesus part he would just be someone you feel sorry for.
I'm telling you for a fucking fact that that's wrong.
This isn't up for debate.
This isn't something that can be disagreed with.
If Harry Potter was royalty, he would be less perfect, not more perfect. You don't seem to realize that certain weaknesses are actually strengths. This is where the idea of "Hollywood flaws" comes from.
He's making perfect sense, it's the concept of the underdog. They come from humble or unfortunate circumstances but don't submit to them the way most people do (ie being a shit person that blames their past for their lack of success in x y or z). Fiction displays this stuff as noble.
>People don't want to be in emotional pain. People are empathetic towards others in pain. But people don't want to be in pain themselves.
What the fuck are you even talking about? What people want in real life is vastly different from what they want in fiction.
In real life, most people want to live a quiet life, with their wife and kids, while having money in the bank. In fiction, a character like that would not be called a Gary Stu.
So yes, having a tragic background and being in emotional pain can make a character more perfect. People love to see dark, brooding characters. That doesn't make the characters less flawed. It's a fake, Hollywood flaw that makes them look better.
>If Harry Potter was royalty, he would be less perfect, not more perfect
Where did you even learn the definition for gary stu anyway?
That's character development, not a gary stu.
Does a Gary Stu count as a Gary Stu if said Gary Stu died super fucking hard?
That's the trick, he maintains his facade WAY better than any real person would do in his place, that's what it means to "retain its dignity", in the sense that he can effectively make people buy into his charade.
>Without the magical Jesus part he would just be someone you feel sorry for.
It's the opposite.
Without the living in unfortunate circumstances part, he'd just be some random guy who gets super powers.
The whole reason people gravitate towards him is because he's a diamond in the rough type. He was mistreated and knows hardship, but "still knows how to love" and all that garbage.
Seriously, you guys aren't thinking. This is elementary stuff. If you can't understand how hardship and low birth make characters more perfect, then you've been living in a bubble too long.
NO IT'S FUCKING GARY STU-ISM
WHY THE FUCK IS THIS SO HARD FOR YOU IDIOTS
SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT ROYAL BLOOD MAKES A CHARACTER MORE PERFECT
BUT JUST AS MANY PEOPLE DON'T
HOLY FUCK, ARE YOU ALL FUCKING STUPID?
200 YEARS AGO AN IDEAL BRITISH HERO WOULD PROBABLY BE SOME PRINCE WHO DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS A PRINCE
BUT 200 YEARS AGO THE IDEAL AMERICAN HERO WAS A DIRT POOR HERO WHO DIDN'T CARE ABOUT WEALTH OR POLITICS AND JUST WANDERED THE LAND
>B-B-B-B-B-B-BUT A GARY STU IS SOMEONE EVERYONE WANTS TO BE LIKE
WANT TO BE LIKE
PERFECTION IS NOT AN OBJECTIVE CONCEPT HOLY FUCK YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING STUPID
>Always does whats right
>Takes down a vampire without even knowing the Ripple
>When he does learn the ripple it just so happens he has the PERFECT ripple
>dies like a bitch
I actually think Jonathan might be one of the biggest Gary Stu's
It's the fact that they think he's cool and unique that's causing people to deny that he's a Gary Stu.
Hachiman is an ordinary wish-fulfillment Gary Stu, but /a/ has been worshiping him since the series began.
How can you discuss anime and manga if you're not even smart enough to grasp grade school level concepts? I'm not asking you rhetorically. Answer the question.
For instance, let's say we were discussing One Punch Man and someone said, without facetiousness,
>Guys, I think Saitama is lying about how he got his power. It's not realistic that basic training like that would give him ultimate power. Why do you think he's making it up?
Does that constitute discussion?
Is that the type of /a/ you want to have?
We need intelligence here. We need self-awareness.
>Ends up blind, crippled and alone because everyone in the entire fucking world is a selfish dickbag in one way or another.
>Especially his friends
>Especially his adopted brother and sister
>Especially his one girlfriend
To be honest, I'm surprised there isn't an OVA of Guilty Crown of him being sad in the three year interval. It can be funded by beating up orphans, collecting and selling their tears to keep in the spirit of things.
Prove what? That it's the hardship stuff that makes Harry Potter Gary Stu-ish?
Okay, ever heard of American Gods? I'm sure you have. It's a popular novel. Now, do you know anything about the protagonist? Of course you don't. He's a fucking normal, uninteresting faggot. Sure, he goes through some hardships, but at the same time, they don't lay it on thick, like that he was whipped by his evil aunt and forced to live in the cupboard underneath the stairs. And even though he's a fucking god at the end, nobody gives a shit.
Same thing with Peter Parker. He didn't get popular because of his powers. He got popular because being a super hero caused everything to fall apart for him in his personal life.
This is like watching two kids have a verbal fight and you thinking heh what fags, then the one kid pulling a knife and you thinking how this was your future considering you ate some damn good corn flakes. You did nothing wrong and now you know that this happened.
Answer the question. Is this discussion:
>>Guys, I think Saitama is lying about how he got his power. It's not realistic that basic training like that would give him ultimate power. Why do you think he's making it up?
Is that discussion?
>We've been doing it before you got here and we'll be doing it after you leave
I've been here longer than you and will be here long after you fuck off back to middle school.
He does have a point in a way. Many Gary Stus are underdogs, that's an immensely common way to write them. The difference between a normal underdog and a Gary Stu is that a Gary Stu will probably be an underdog that's also secretly the key to everything with everyone crawling on his dick including the villain by the time the story is over. He seems to be implying that just being an underdog alone makes a character more Gary Stu-ish, which is untrue.
Never-mind my previous argument, I was typing it pretty late. Seeing your arguments, pointing out Tomoko, your definition of loser; the problem is not the word gary stu or self insert but rather the depiction of a "loser" in the show. In other words, you just want a real loser - someone lowest of the low with no room for redemption-, according to your definition.
Well if you want something "real" then fiction is not for you. If you want see a loser then go look in the mirror, or the streets. I can see why you hate hachiman idolized as some ideal loner or god of loners by some people, I must I say I hate that too. I think you simply hate loner and cynical characters, but for me the charm of those character is a more satisfying character development. Hachiman may not become sociable person but at least he become more willing to have friends in the LN.
Guys, I'm going to write a Harry Potter fanfic with my own personal character who is TOTATLY NOT A MARY SUE GUISE.
>One day Harry Pootter when to school and then Professor Dimbledob introduced a new character, Sable. Sable was a slender girl with a slash of pink hair that covered one eye and she wore fingerless gloves.
>Sable went over to Harries Potter and said, "Hi Harry Pottle my name is Sable and I'm the new girl at school and I'm a half-wearwolf/half-animagus: form of the wolfe. I can do silent spell and also I feel connected with you. You see my step parents beat me
>and then they made me stay in the cupboard underneat the cupboard underneath the stairs nad my step brother Doobley wouldnt give me his third bedroom and he raped me once."
>Then Harold Powder said, "Sable you are really cool I want you on my Quoudish team we need your help to stop Voldimorth!"
I added in the flaw about being mistreated because I didn't want my character to be too perfect. Gotta add in those flaws, right guise?
Realistic losers aren't even that rare. Again, Shinji and Yukiteru are both fairly realistic losers, from the standpoint of their personality. They're insecure, desperate, and socially awkward.
I don't mind characters like Hachiman existing as long as people recognize how unrealistic and idealized they are.
>I don't mind characters like Hachiman existing as long as people recognize how unrealistic and idealized they are.
Go tell /r9k/ they're being unrealistic and idealized losers and get back to this thread, anon
>implying anyone on /r9k/ is as perfect as Hachiman
I feel if 5 was average human level, 7 would be if a particular stat was trained by an athlete, and 8 by one of those "greatest of all time" 6x gold medalist athletes in one or two particular stats, while typically coordinator newtype would straight 8s.
Straight 9s being superman and 10 being goku
Hachiman isn't a mere self-insert. It's a perfect, idealized self-insert.
Kyon isn't quite as bad, because he isn't supposed to be a loser. Keima, however, is definitely a Gary Stu.
Shu is my favorite anime character.
The citation is an anime called Yahari Ore no Seishun Rabu Kome wa Machigatteiru.
You're looking at the wrong JoJo.
The funniest part is that Komatsu is even bigger Mary than Toriko who has the manga named after him
Gary-stu: Perfect character without flaws.-Kirito
Self-instert: Character without personality so the viewer can relate to him- Kyon
Hachiman has personality and flaws as a person, the only reason why people bitch about it is because he gets the pussy.
Welcome to the Wish fulfillment industry everybody!
Gary-stu: Perfect character without real flaws.-Hachiman
Hachiman has only Hollywood flaws. Meanwhile, he has a devil may care, straight man persona that is not only unattainable, but is sought after by every otaku on the planet.
Hachiman is objectively a Gary Stu, and this cannot be argued. People who don't see this are underage shitposters.
Yeah, the problem is that criticizing Hachiman hits too close to home for /a/. They want to believe that they can be like him and that they aren't fanfags gushing over their favorite Gary Stu. Too many anons can't turn their criticism inwards.
* A real flaw is something like making a fool of yourself, trying to act cool in front of others.
* A fake Hollywood flaw is not understanding the appeal of normal social interaction and wanting to be left in your own little world.
Tomoko exemplifies the former. Gary Stus like Hachiman exemplify the latter.
Finished Seed just to see how much of a fucking GaryStew this guy is.
Fucker survived a self-destruct gundam on his fucking face. What the flying fuck. Then 1 episode later, his on a the PLANT for I don't know how the fuck he went there quickly.
Gonna watch Destiny now.
Because she actually has a backstory to why she's so good.
Same goes for Ed in FMA, he is pretty gary stuish in brotherhood but I don't think it's so bad since it shows he's been trained fucking hard his whole life and had seen the truth.
Most of the Gary Stu's posted here are just good because they're good, never really explained they just happen to have this bullshit power that enables them to do just about anything.
Do you guys ever get depressed with /a/? Like, you come here, thinking you've gone to a place with people who aren't like all the insufferable faggots out there, then /a/ shows you that they are exactly like everyone else?
For example, maybe there's a shoujo thread, and suddenly everyone starts saying,
>SHOUJO MANGA IS FULL OF ABUSIVE BOYFRIENDS WHY DO GRILLS ONLY DATE JERKS?
So even though you thought /a/ was full of people who rejected 3DPD, the reality is that it's just full of bitter nice guys pretending to hate 3DPD. Then you have a series come out with a really cliched Gary Stu, but instead of realizing this, you have anons going
>GUYS 8MAN IS SO COOL AND UNIQUE. LOL DARK KNIGHT AMIRITE? WOW THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS IN YEARS HE'S JUST LIKE ME I ACT LIKE HIM IN REAL LIFE JAPAN FINALLY WROTE AN ORIGINAL CHARACTER.
>A fake Hollywood flaw is not understanding the appeal of normal social interaction and wanting to be left in your own little world.
It isn't a fake one if the character has it because he's a bitter failure. It's active (legitimately 'devil may care', Byronic) vs reactive (resentful, only this way because of your shortcomings).
That's not how bitter people express themselves in real life. It's an idealized, unrealistic, Gary Stu trait.
In real life, bitter people are frustrated, sweaty, social failures. They're not quiet, disinterested, aloof guys like Hachiman. There is no one in real life like him, because he's unattainable. In real life, bitter losers turn out like Chris-chan and Tomoko.
This brings up a good point.
I've always thought that a dark and troubled past works far better when the character in question is responsible for it, I.E committed some war crime or crossed a line like Mordin Solus. Just having bad shit happen to a character is boring.
Being a loser without being a loser is not a real flaw, you fucking faggot.
It's like a poor street urchin who's handsome, well-spoken, and not malnourished.
It's like a guy who was in a fire, but only has a tiny, cool-looking scar on his face.
It's like a character who's haunted by his dark past of murdering someone, but it was in self-defense.
>That's not how bitter people express themselves in real life.
People express themselves in many ways. If you haven't met Caulfield types like this, you either haven't been paying attention or you were/are one.
What part of you being a fuckhead made you think I think that 8man is a cool character?
Also nice calling me a shitposter when that is literally all you are doing.
Or how can I put this...
You are OBJECTIVELY a shitposter.
Get this through your head:
There is no one like Hachiman in real life. You're not like him. You want to be like him, because he's an unattainable Gary Stu ideal.
In real life, losers are slobbering messes. They have no dignity and make fools of themselves.
You don't want to face the truth that this is you, not Hachiman. You can never be him. He's just your Gary Stu fantasy.
You're trying to idealize real life and take out all the
and soiled underwear
There is no dignity in being a loser.
You said it yourself:
>constantly idolized by everyone
Hachiman is constantly idolized by everyone. He's a character that the target audience looks up to and wants to be like. Otaku fantasize about being a cool, aloof loner, who is looked down on by normalfag society, but doesn't care; they fantasize about being this super dignified straight man who just wants to live in his own world, but KEEPS GETTING PULLED IN by eccentric school girls.
I'm not the only one, but the fact that there are so many of you autists here is depressing. This isn't a matter of opinion, but a matter of intelligence. To not see that Hachiman is a Gary Stu shows a low level of awareness you'd expect from a middle school kid. It's like if a 12-year-old said something like
>Thor is the best movie of the year why doesn't it win best picture?
That's the equivalent of what's going on here. Hachiman is a bargain basement, dime-a-dozen piece of trash character that panders to the lowest common denominator of otaku by giving them a loser who is super cool. Anyone who doesn't see how pathetic and Gary Stuish this is has a middle school level mind.
>Everything in your post describing Hachiman could be true in real life except
It can't. There are no people in life like that. The fact that you think there is is scary.
In real life, losers are desperate and undignified people who are essentially drowning. Anyone as cool as Hachiman is not going to be a loser like he is.
I should be asking you that. I bet you try to squint your eyes in class to look more like him, don't you?
Funny thing, as much of a gary stu this guy was, he wasn't even as broken as the MC. In fact, being gary stu is what allows him to keep up with other characters in the series.
So does that mean that Shieldbro from Tate no Yuusha is a Gary Stu then?
Tomoko is a Mary Sue. It's a female loser character written for boys because losers wouldn't touch a series with such a male version of themselves. She's an anime fan and gaymer grrl and looks down on all the normalfags. For all her "shortcomings", it's never truly portrayed in a negative light but always either funny and sympathetic.
The author couldn't even make her repulsive --petite, big green bedroom eyes, long unkempt hair. Predictably, nerds jumped all over that shit.
She's not realistic: she's just another waifu character for saps like you who couldn't handle harsh reality.
>All this mad about OP fictional characters
>Not just enjoying the damn shows
>She's not realistic: she's just another waifu character for saps like you who couldn't handle harsh reality.
What the fuck, are your standards that twisted?
>The whole point of his character is that he's not cool.
No, the whole point of his character is that he's a cool loser. He's a straight man who doesn't bother other people and is always being bothered. He is just into his own thing and doesn't make a fool out of himself.
>You're the only one calling 8man cool though.
Everybody on /a/ worships him. Everyone in Japan who watched the show wants to be him and/or is delusional enough to think they already are him. He's tailor made for loser otaku to think he's cool.
>BUT THEY DIDN'T CALL HIM COOL IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY
Hollywood. Flaw. Just because a story presents something as a negative thing, doesn't make it a negative thing. In real life, Hachiman would not be a loser.
It's just like those movie characters who are "ugly", even though in real life they're 8/10 minimum.
They aren't my standards, but the standards of the fans. Many Watamote fans do consider Tomoko their perfect girl and it's nothing surprising. She's just a loser version of Konata.
I thought Gary Stu/Mary Sue are characters that's perfect in every single aspect?
She has a horrifically unattractive body, bags under her eyes, and she's constantly getting herself into painfully awkward situations and making a fool of herself.
The fact that you're seriously trying to equate her to Hachiman shows that you have autism and the intelligence of a 12-year-old.
A character can still be a Gary Stu/Mary Sue even if they're not perfect in every way by having way too many perfect aspects to be realistic countered by very little to no flaws and/or flaws that don't really matter in the end because they don't draw them back in anyway. That's pretty much a sentence tl;dr of the argument in this autistfest of a thread.
To expand on this, one person's concept of perfection is not another person's concept of perfection.
Sakamoto looks like a Gary Stu to the Japanese, but most Americans would not see him that way.
I dunno, his power is pretty broken as fuck, I'll admit he gets things done way more effectively than should be. We've also only seen three groups of people, the human adventurers, the goblins he was born with, and the older goblins. Humans only warmed up after he saved them from endless rape, and the younger goblins see him as basically invincible because he is.
>She has a horrifically unattractive body
Your opinion, most fans disagree. She overwhelmingly has the most fanart and porn.
>bags under her eyes
Which nerds find attractive, usually indicating the girl stays up all night watching anime and porn and playing video games like they do.
>she's constantly getting herself into painfully awkward situations and making a fool of herself
All of which people find relatable and sympathetic, and many think makes her endearing and waifu-able.
Keep putting your head in the sand all you like; she's a Mary Sue waifu character. You're not a cute girl, just a faggot.
So you have made your own definition of Gary Stu by somehow deciding that Garu Stu needs dignity? How is this anything else than your own personal definition?
Real life examples are fucking wrong, as "having dignity" is sort of survival mechanism inside the head of an individual, not accepting what a pathetic loser someone is. I've met countless of moronic people (most likely am one myself) that have a huge sense of dignity.
>most fans disagree
No, they don't.
>She overwhelmingly has the most fanart and porn.
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that by "the most", you meant, "the most in her series". And even that's retarded.
Anyway, anything and everything gets porn, faggot. What's Rule 34?
>Which nerds find attractive
>All of which people find relatable
>and many think makes her endearing and waifu-able
Otaku waifu anything.
>she's a Mary Sue waifu character
You've yet to show how she's a Mary Stu. She has horrific flaws that are NOT idealized and no one wants to be her.
Hachiman, however, is not even really a loser. He has Hollywood flaws and everyone who watches either wishes they were him or is fucking stupid enough to think they are him. When they watch Tomoko, they cringe and remember the time that they acted that way.
Hachiman = who you wish you were
Tomoko = who you know you are
Kenshi Masaki (The biggest one)
Izayoi from Problem Children.
Touma AND Mikoto, especially Mikoto.
Kazuma from KnS.
That MC from Hagure no Yuusha.
>I've met countless of moronic people (most likely am one myself) that have a huge sense of dignity.
No, you don't. You don't have dignity. That's what's clouding your judgment here. You can't see the truth of yourself.
Dignity is something hard to attain that almost no loser has. Even normal people make fools of themselves a lot. It's very hard to go through life without exposing yourself to ridiculous often.
Dignity is not the standard for a Gary Stu; it's the fucking bare minimum a Gary Stu has to have.
You forgot one.
>No, they don't.
Yes they do.
>I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that by "the most", you meant, "the most in her series".
Congrats, you're not a totally retard! But yes, it does indicate something: Tomoko is hotness to many fans. She's overwhelmingly preferred to her friend, who's more the typical beauty. This shouldn't surprise you, unless you're a newfag to anime.
>What's Rule 34?
A shitty rule that isn't totally true.
>Otaku waifu anything.
They have a big reason here because it was made for them.
>She has horrific flaws
None of which are truly flaws. They make her funny and sympathetic. Tomoko is overwhelmingly an idealized loser girlfriend.
A Gary Stu is a perfect, idealized character with no real flaws, who the author and the audience wants to be.
Saitama from One-Punch Man is not written with very many real flaws, but at the same time, his personality isn't really one that makes the anyone go, "I want to be him!". He's not a Gary Stu.
A character like Hachiman, for instance, is someone that every otaku loser wants to be. Characters like him and Keima are ones that real life losers gravitate towards, because they're not normalfags with friends, but they're still cool and dignified all by themselves. The flaws they have are fake flaws that only serve to make them look better. For instance, they're both unpopular at school. Rather than being a detriment, that makes the audience love them more, seeing them as someone who doesn't act like everyone else and follow social norms.
But everyone hates 8man.
Consider the following: losers have hard time admitting they are losers. The show is from 8mans POV, meaning he is portrayed as smart and smooth mofo as he naturally believes to be a one. If the show was from POV of another person, 8man would be seen as depressing loser he is.
In real life you'd hate a guy like that. I had one in high-school, sort of loser that idolized himself. It was just sad. In no way was he a Gary Stu.
>You don't have dignity
Okay then. I almost believed you could be argued with but when you pull some sort of analytic statements about my self-dignity I just have to stop and stare. You are a mess, son.
What with all these plebeians with their plebeian pride, are you so proud of disgusting flaws that you are offended that your kind is not represented properly? What are you a shitskin? a sandnigger? If you want to see something realistic, go look for a mirror, oh wait, you don't have one, what a pity. It's also a pity that trash don't burn themselves.
>But everyone hates 8man.
They sort of hate him in the anime, but even that's not really true. The audience not only loves him, they worship him.
>Consider the following: losers have hard time admitting they are losers
Agreed. See: this thread.
>The show is from 8mans POV, meaning he is portrayed as smart and smooth mofo as he naturally believes to be a one. If the show was from POV of another person, 8man would be seen as depressing loser he is.
Very interesting thought. If I gave the author more credit, there might be something to that.
But what it really comes down to is that people who watch the series look up to him. If otaku idolized athletic, suave rich guys who dominate girls, they'd read shoujo. But otaku have created a culture around themseves (waifu, 3DPD, etc) to justify their loserdom, which is why they idolize characters who fall in line with that. A Gary Stu for otaku isn't captain of the Jud Team; a Gary Stu is an outcast who never makes a fool out of himself and is completely reactive towards society, never seeking it out on his own.
>In real life you'd hate a guy like that.
I'd never meet a guy like that. The closest thing to Hachiman in real life is a poser putting on a front. In real life, everyone desperately, DESPERATELY craves approval of others, especially losers.
>I had one in high-school, sort of loser that idolized himself.
The difference is that you noticed and he wanted you to notice.
Hachiman does go out of his way to make himself noticed to others. He's a complete straight man.
You're just throwing assumptions around. Instead of staying in your strange definition of Gary Stu you now start analyzing reality with literally nothing to back you up, except your own prejudice.
You the definition of an autist.
The point is that a lot of losers walk around thinking they're dignified, when they aren't. If you're
>unable to make eye contact
>unable to always properly intone your sentences
>too old to be living with your parents
>too old to be working minimum wage jobs
>too old to still be in college
>eating alone at a restaurant without a suit and tie on
>watching a movie in the theater alone
>wearing a t-shirt that says something on it or has an anime character
>constantly misunderstanding what other people are saying
>constantly replying with "y-you too" when it isn't appropriate
>unable to perform basic tasks, like maintaining your automobile
>constantly holding the door open for people when they're too far behind you
people are going to notice. And none of these flaws are the type of flaws that characters like Hachiman have, because characters like Hachiman are Gary Stu ideals. Tomoko, on the other hand, has these flaws.
>being rude, selfish, ugly and a social outcast aren't negative character traits
It's about self-awareness and basic understanding. We're here to talk about anime. If the people here can't even understand anime characters and are blinded by their own personal biases, how can we have a good discussion?
>being rude, selfish
Motherfucker, the most Gariest of Gary Stus in history got women off by being rude and selfish. Those are the classics of Gary Stu traits.
Hachiman is not ugly. I speculate that 32% of /a/nos who watched that shit series go around squinting to try to look more like him.
I wish you'd said you were trolling up front. You'd have saved me the time of typing this all up. 2/10. You got me to reply.
Then, again, that's only list of your opinions. 8man has many flaws not mentioned in your list. The fact that he is antisocial and arrogant loser somehow wasn't included in your list of negative features. I wonder why...
I think you are trying a bit too hard to make a definition based on your opinions. It doesn't come together as neatly as in your head. Now, it's not like you aren't trying so I will not treat you as a retard, but considering not a single poster in the entire thread has had a same opinion as you has quite clear implications, don't you agree?
Not that guy, I think Hachiman is a despicable ass and don't quite understand why he's considered such a hero. And his quote about nice girls is bad and has poor taste, but it's celebrated like gospel. It's quite hilarious really.
>The fact that he is antisocial and arrogant loser somehow wasn't included in your list of negative features. I wonder why...
Because Japanese otaku and most of /a/ idolize those characteristics. They make him look better and more ideal to the target audience, not worse.
>I think you are trying a bit too hard to make a definition based on your opinions.
I think you're trying to hard to deny that Hachiman is a Gary Stu, because admitting so would be admitting your own flaws, as well as prevent you from circlejerking about how all the Mahoka fans just like Gary Stu characters. You'd have to sit down and realize that not only are you kind of a loser, idealizing king of loser characters, but that you have shit taste, because you like Gary Stus.
>It doesn't come together as neatly as in your head.
It amazingly does, actually. It's scary how beloved and idolized Hachiman was on /a/ alone. There were threads and threads about what a great character he was. It's scary how much /a/ gravitates to cheap Gary Stus.
>not a single poster in the entire thread has had a same opinion as you has quite clear implications, don't you agree?
There've been at least two other people in this thread who've agreed with me, and I've been arguing with about 6-8 people, tops. This is an extremely small sample size.
You also have to consider that /a/ has a dog in this fight. Most of you don't want to admit that Hachiman is a Gary Stu, because that would mean admitting something about yourself.
His life is nothing but suffering and he can hardly ever get shit done without massive support.
Ain't Gary Stu. He just starts out stronger than his allies, but both Asuka and You have much more versatile and potentially broken abilities.
I think you are wrong, though. Your psychoanalysis on how I subconsciously treat 8man as non-Gary because am afraid of my own flaws fails in regards that literal definition of Gary Stu barely has flaws. Reading the previous posts I understand this is a sore topic for you, but even you must agree that portion of Gary Stu = desirable attributes, right? Therefore admitting 8man to be a Gary Stu would most likely rub my ego more than denying it. Hell, if I could own at least one of the attributes Magic Jesus has, I'd probably be satisfied in myself as an individual, rather than despising the desirable attributes like you seem to believe. I believe your assumption how majority of /a/ does not admit 8man to be a Gary Stu because subconscious defense-mechanisms rather than just disagreeing with you as many of your points barely make sense is sort of stretching it.
>ails in regards that literal definition of Gary Stu barely has flaws
We're going in circles. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.
Many people would see James Bond as a sexist asshole. Sexism is a flaw, right? Well, that depends on who you ask.
Similarly, Hachiman being an outsider is seen as a positive trait by otaku and /a/.
>Therefore admitting 8man to be a Gary Stu would most likely rub my ego more than denying it.
Why would it? You don't want to admit that he's written poorly and that you like poor writing.
>Hell, if I could own at least one of the attributes Magic Jesus has, I'd probably be satisfied in myself as an individual, rather than despising the desirable attributes like you seem to believe.
THE FUCKING POINT I'VE BEEN MAKING OVER AND OVER IS THAT MANY OTAKU TRY TO SEE THEMSELVES AS HACHIMAN, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE JUST FOOLING THEMSELVES.
YOU'RE NOT HACHIMAN.
YOU CAN'T BE HIM.
YOU WANT TO BE HIM.
BUT YOU CAN NEVER BE HIM BECAUSE HE'S AN UNATTAINABLE GARY STU.
>as many of your points barely make sense is sort of stretching it.
Funny you say that, because no one here even listens to my points. You just ignore them and call me wrong. I've basically been blowing everything you've said out of the water the whole thread, and all you can come back with is "well, I think you're wrong".
Hachiman has no dignity, you numb-scull. He just acts like he does, but nearly every character in the story points out that he's just bullshitting himself to not feel like a sorry jackass.
I am dead serious. A Gary Stu is a flawless character, Tatsuya has plenty of flaws and is quite depreciative. His "harem" is a mess too, the only girl who ever confessed her feelings to him he pushed away and keeps at an arms length because she's useful. He frequently notes that Miyuki is a sicko and he does not see her that way. Erika is about as likely as Mayumi. Shizuku flirts with him, but ultimately there's nothing she can do because Honoka comes first.
Barring "his girls" there is his family who all either hate, or fear him aside from Fumiya who worships the ground he walks on and Ayako who doesn't treat him like shit. Not even his own mother ever gave him the time of the day, to her he was always a failure and a dark mark on her reputation. He's been trained and worked as a bodyguard in a family he was born to rule, but was stripped of that right due to a technicality, all his life.
Guts is biggest gary Stu ever created
literally no real flaws :
>Lost his one eye and hand
>Being raped as a boy
>wears armour that eats his soul
>Is on longest boat voyage
That's some shitty Hollywood flaws.
While he is strongest of all characters there and gets shit done.
He's worse than Tatsuya or Kirito
He has dignity in that he minds his own damn business, doesn't make a fool of himself in front of others, doesn't go chasing after other people, and can reasonably pass for a normal person outside of school.
Tomoko is a character with no dignity. She makes a fool of herself in every single human encounter.
>>wears armour that eats his soul
You realize that that is actually a Hollywood flaw.
>I'M USING THE POWER OF THE DEVIL TO DEFEAT MY ENEMIES
Oh fuck you. Call me when you actually do something bad, like kill innocent people.
What about that time where he actually did murder an innocent in cold blood, when he was assassinating a noble of a kingdom he was working for, because he would do absolutely anything his friend asked him to, no matter how awful?
Yeah kind of, Fighting Climax is popular in the arcades. I usually ended up standing in line to play when I went.
Anyways, here's some Miuki summoning Tatsuya, and Asuna versus Kirito.
Onii-sama at 2:50
>He has dignity in that he minds his own damn business
I don't really see how that has anything to do with dignity. Most losers avoid people and try to mind their won business while being as stealthy as possible.
>doesn't make a fool of himself in front of others
He does it constantly. Making a fool of himself so many times is exactly what made him into a bitter hypocritical asshole. Him being a loser is a result of his own idiocy and he's constantly trying to pin that fault on others.
>doesn't go chasing after other people
You say that, but he's often hoping for companionship with Yukino, who he wants to consider a kindred soul and thus has several times tried (and failed) to start a friendship. Otherwise, he has fucked himself over so many times that he has given up on chasing people.
>an reasonably pass for a normal person outside of school
Just about every /a/non can. I don't see how being able to not act like a total retard in society makes him a fake
Your blowing everything out of the water, but even with this objectively perfect arguing nobody agrees with you?
Antisociality is not an positive trait, no matter how you look at it. /a/ does not glorify social withdrawal and is more of an community of pain. The general traits 8man has are not desirable. Caps lock does not make you seem like an intellectual mastermind. I understand the point you are driving, but I disagree because I believe our understanding of 8man is a bit conflicting. You see him as sort of god-otaku, whereas I don't think he has enough positive features to be an idealized individual.
>inb4 no arguments, just "well, I think you're wrong"
The reason people tell you "I think you're wrong" is because the subject is indeed very subjective. I don't see the arguments that were supposed to blow me out of the water, as in the end you hardly have any objectivity in your posts. If you say that "positive traits are subjective", that means the definition of Gary Stu is also subjective. If you then consider 8man an objective Gary Stu, you are contradicting yourself and I seriously do not understand what you believe to achieve.
You are objectively wrong. Otaku and /a/ glorify anti social behavior. Normal fags are hated and characters like Keima and Hachiman are idolized.
You're wrong on this and you know you're wrong.
>He's nearly unbeatable
Not really. Most of the characters he beats easily are weak anyway or are strong enough that he succeeds only by the skin of his teeth.
There are also times where he couldn't succeeded alone no matter what.
>constantly puts women in their place
You mean haughty teenagers that are used to getting shit done their way? Big achievement.
>while keeping a cool head
Did you miss the several times he has acted impulsively and how he fucks himself over due to "m-muh dead waifu" trauma?
He looks like a Gary Stu because he is actually competent while surrounded by inexperienced children. If you actually look at his feats, he is not all that incredible on the grand scale.
So, what I've gathered from this clusterfuck of a thread is that definition of Gary Stu is subjective from person to person.
Hahaha, are you buttmad? Keep crying you stupid baby. No matter how much you whine people will always like Hachiman, people will always think he's a good character, and people will always not think he's a gary stu.
Maybe you should go back to sucking on your mommy's nipples, baby.
I can't believe this autist is still posting.
Your definition of a Gary Stu is someone that does not classify as a loser who has built-in flaws that don't hold him back because they're superficial. Your definition of a loser is determined by a cherry-picked list of your personal opinions that is largely based on the opposite of what a Japanese otaku would idealize. That alone should negate everything you are saying.
In addition you are saying that because said "Gary Stu" does not meet your definition of a loser that he is thus a character that can be considered perfect. Being a character aware of those around him, having internal monologues, and being "straight" (whatever you mean by that) does not make him a perfect being. One could argue devoting more time to overanalyzing everything someone says is an actual flaw.
Of course you also say that he is a wish-fulfillment character that /a/ loves because we compare him to Batman. When we compare him to Batman we do so to mock his character, not glorify him.
True Gary Stus are typically portrayed as smart, athletic, popular, witty, can maximize human potential with no back story given, and more. While hachiman shows a couple of these traits, he does not show enough to be considered a Gary Stu.
You're so angry you got called out, little baby shit. You got exposed for liking Gary Stu shit writing. How does it feel? Are you crying that your circlejerk got destroyed? Your whole world view was raped.
>Your whole world view was raped.
Kind of like how your anus was raped by the fact that an ebil gary stu mc in some Japanese light novel ended up popular and got a lot of real money for a real person.
They're trolling I hope
Funny, in the last post you were saying people tell you "I disagree" without real arguments, and now you pretty much fall under the same category.
We are all suffering inside. I think that is probably some requirement to visit /a/ or other neckbeard boards. Anime is escapism. Why do you think moe is popular? Only reason people "glorify social withdrawal" is because the community is full of a kin, making a antisociality a norm, people wish to belong somewhere. Basically you get people who shout "3DPD" because they are expected to, whereas in real life they are suffering instead of being the ideological master-race they anonymously on image board pretend to be. Can you really disagree with this or stand down from your tall chair and actually admit I might not pull this from my ass? I bet you are the same. I bet you believe being antisocial is really fucking cool, while in high-school you were pitied and bitter while your classmates banged in parties and all that was left for you were chinese cartoons.
Literally noone in this thread besides yourself thinks 8man is cool or unique. I'm not sure why you keep spouting this shit.
The only thing I can think of is that you are talking about yourself and are trying to project what you think is the norm of /a/ (you think that is you, but clearly, it is not) onto everyone else.
Kind of like how you're DOCUMENTABLY an autist. I won't say it's a fact, but me and several of my friends in the mental health field have taken a look at this thread and our best guess without speaking to you in person is that you're autistic.
In addition, your list is indeed cherry-picked. I myself fall under several items you listed earlier as being a loser. However, I'm graduating with a dual degree in engineering at an appropriate age, have a full time job accepted, have a significant other and friends, and do not consider myself a loser. Your list is terribly subjective and completely biased.
Yes, and? I believe Tomoko to be a fun character. I know there are a large amount of people that worship Tomoko, check the waifu threads. This too isn't an opinion but a fact.
Point being, /a/ is a community where fitting in means idolizing social withdrawal: important is to notice how this happens only inside the board. Neckbeards idolize withdrawal as form of escapism. Escapism is ultimately just escapism. If neckbeard was offered a change to be fit and bang qt girls, he would abandon his ideals of social withdrawal in a heartbeat. This means he does not desire or idolize social withdrawal. It's really simple, really. Sad too.
You keep using words like "non-trivial" or "majority". You realize that you are confusing these words with thr "vocal". Being vocal doesn't make your opinion represent any majority without statistics to back it up.
But that's because they see him for what he says he is, not what he really is.
Hachiman is not "cool" and anyone who thinks he is is denser than the average harem protag. Hachiman is a hypocrite that lies to himself to feel better and acts like he doesn't give a shit about being alone when, in reality, he does so more than anyone else and is just fuckign afraid of following up on his feelings because he is already convinced that he will fail, so he wallows in his shallow pride to convince himself that he actually better than everyone else, when he really isn't.
And no one wants to be Tomoko. She's not a Mary Sue.
You're arguing against otaku culture to win the argument, but it's a failed gambit on your part. Most of /a/ and Japanese otaku take it seriously. They really hate normalfags, or have convinced themselves they do.
Yukinon is a textbook Mary Sue.
>Perfect physical appearance (she is described as being "the prettiest girl in the school)
>Highly talented (she's an honor student or something, she basically singlehandedly runs the culture festival despite not being the actual person in charge, she can play guitar, and...)
>Has a beautiful singing voice (anyone who knows about mary sue knows this in particular stands out as a sue attribute)
>Comes from a wealthy background
>Hated by others because of her superiority (she is described as having trouble making female friends because girls are jealous; her dialogue also suggests she has no male friends because she can't tolerate their shallow interest in her)
>Has a "bad" personality that actually involves her calling out others on their bullshit, and is portrayed in universe as a likeable 'rebel' for this (see Yui's reaction to her brutal honesty)
>Has a stated motivation of saving the weaker masses, which she believes is her responsibility due to her superiority (in other words, even though she's a dick to them, she's still kind and deigns to protect them like some perfect goddess)
Why do you assume true losers have no dignity? Because that's, just, like your opinion man. Again just because some losers have no dignity (see the majority of people that go to anime conventions) doesn't mean all losers don't feel bad when they make an ass of themselves in public.
Those aren't real flaws. What otaku want is a fantasy where they don't poop their pants around others or make fools of themselves constantly. Think Tomoko. Otaku don't give a shit that DEEP DOWN he longs for contact. They want to fantasize about a loser that can mind his own business, be a straight man, not chase after others, not embarrass himself, and just be cool, despite being an outcast.
You're kind of dumb, you know that? There's no contradiction. He's objectively a Gary Stu to some people. I mean, holy fuck, were you dropped on your head as a child?
>HURR DURR IF PERFECTION IS SUBJECTIVE THAN NOTHING IS SUBJECTIVE
No, you stupid fucktard. Some people think the perfect girl is black. Some people think the perfect girl is Asian. The perfect girl is objectively Asian for a huge portion of humans.
Nope. Your argument was disproven dozens of times. Don't you ever bring it up again, you understand?
Hachiman has dignity. That is one of the key factors in him being a Gary Stu.
>They want to fantasize about a loser that can mind his own business, be a straight man, not chase after others, not embarrass himself, and just be cool, despite being an outcast.
And none of this is true about Hachiman. What the Otaku think doesn't matter, because what Hachiman represents as a character is completely different.
A misunderstanding of what Hachiman is in no way makes him a Gary Stu.
Reading through this thread, it sounds like this guy is trolling because he's way too "angry" to be serious, and you all are somehow falling for it.
>Hachiman is not "cool" and anyone who thinks he is is denser than the average harem protag
How nice of you.
Most of what you said is true. He's a hypocrite who pretends he doesn't want friends and who insults people for enjoying their youth and then turns around and does the same thing once he gets friends. He also continually writes himself off as a failure because of his past experiences. You didn't state it outright, but he hates many of the 'normalfags' around him, even decent ones, out of either jealousy or pride, or more likely a combination of both.
But he is still cool, even if he is a flawed person. He is aware of, and calls out, a lot of bullshit that the more positive people around him can't (or don't) pay attention to, and in spite of his apparent insistence that he doesn't care he is also a hypocrite in that he frequently does nice things for others. In addition, even if he's often too stubborn about it, he lives the life he wants to rather than the life that society wants him to live.
He's not a perfect person and anyone claiming he's a gary stu has their head up their ass. But I can't stand people who say he's just some loser with nothing but undeserved pride.
>Your argument was disproven dozens of times.
But it hasn't? Every time someone made a detailed post about why Hachiman doesn't have dignity, he was ignored.
You haven't actually proven that he has dignity. All you've done is show that you're just as ignorant of Hachiman's true colors as the Otaku you're talking bout.
>What the Otaku think doesn't matter
Are you fucking retarded? Are you stupid? Are you a complete idiot?
James Bond has flaws. He loses to villains a lot and treats people like shit. Yet he's a Gary Stu because people think he's a Gary Stu. Everyone wants to be him, even though he's a flawed shithead.
You're so desperate to win this argument that you're shooting yourself in the foot.
And I think you haven't been here long enough to pick the subtle indications nor understand the culture you are commenting on. Are you seriously saying, that if "otaku" was given a choice to be a normal socially capable and happy person, instead of miserable escapist, anyone would choose to follow their ideals? Only reason people follow said ideals is because they were never given the choice. Is a high-school absolutist an absolutist because of his deep ideals, or because he was never invited to parties? Basically the same dilemma, and the answer is obvious. You must be able to read between the lines, because as I said, it is a social norm "to fit in" here. You don't want to admit because it would be against the board etiquette, but you too are not an idealistic individual with deep worldviews and fedoras, just an another person that failed at life. If you believe that people here actually believe in ideals they preach about just because they have a need to fit in, you failed your analysis about /a/ hivemind in the first post.
>Reading through this thread, it sounds like this guy is trolling because he's way too "angry" to be serious, and you all are somehow falling for it.
The funny thing is that I'm the only non-autistic person in this thread. Everyone else is desperately, DESPERATELY trying to defend Hachiman as a non-Gary Stu, because it destroys so much for them if he is. They have to admit
1) He's not a original character.
2) He's not a well-written character.
3) They like Gary Stu shits.
4) They're not actually like Hachiman in real life and can't be like him.
Hachiman not being a Gary Stu is everything to these people.
>He's not a perfect person and anyone claiming he's a gary stu has their head up their ass
This is such a shitty argument and you know it.
I can make the same arguments about Kirito.
And James Bond.
And every other Gary Stu in this thread.
Every single Gary Stu being discussed has flaws.
The point is that Hachiman has idealized, unrealistic, impossible-to-attain traits that otaku wish they had. They're not bothered by his flaws anymore than guys who watch James Bond are bothered by James Bond's flaws.
Nope, it's been destroyed a dozen times. I've pointed out time and again how what you're describing aren't flaws of dignity and that you're stretching to call these real flaws.
>BUT HE LIES TO HIMSELF AND REALLY WANTS FRIENDS
Nope, that doesn't have anything to do with dignity.
Meanwhile, I've PROVEN he has dignity 100 times over.
>BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HIM
No, you don't understand. Dignity is a matter of not being Tomoko. She's a real life character whose flaws are present in real life otaku losers. Hachiman has none of those flaws.
A Gary Stu is a Gary Stu because the story and setting bends over to make him likable and successful at what he's supposed to be, not because the readers think he's likable.
>The point is that Hachiman has idealized, unrealistic, impossible-to-attain traits that otaku wish they had.
You say that, but you've done nothing to prove it.
>>He's not a perfect person and anyone claiming he's a gary stu has their head up their ass
>This is such a shitty argument and you know it.
It's not an argument. It's me dismissing your argument, similar to how scientists dismiss creationism, exasperated parents dismiss "but I WANT to eat ice cream for every meal!" and math teachers dismiss "why isn't one plus one equal to three?"
I'm not trying to convince you you're wrong. I'm telling everybody else in this thread that you're too stupid to be worth convincing.
>Meanwhile, I've PROVEN he has dignity 100 times over.
None of what you've said has anything to do with dignity, however. You've also done nothing to prove that a loser with dignity is impossible.
>Dignity is a matter of not being Tomoko
Tomoko is a bad example because she is composed of nothing BUT flaws. She someone entirely built around being flawed and has few things to her beyond being a horribly flawed character.
Oh shut the fuck up. This is bigger than /a/. Stop thinking you're a special snowflake.
Losers are losers because they couldn't fit in with normal people. Otaku culture was created to make people feel better about this.
If given the choice by a genie, would everyone choose friends and a 3D wife? Most would. That doesn't mean that otaku and /a/ haven't convinced themselves that they hate normalfags and want nothing to do with them. 90% of people polled would say that they would rejected 3DPD to the bitter end.
You're trying to say,
>IF OTAKU REALLY HAD THE CHOICE THEY WOULDN'T CHOOSE TO BE LIKE HACHIMAN SO THEREFORE THEY CAN'T IDOLIZE HIM AND THEREFORE HE CAN'T BE A GARY STU
That's logically wrong.
you made an error in logic
your logic is flawed
that is wrong from a logical standpoint
EVEN THOUGH MOST OTAKU WOULD CHOOSE 3D IF THERE WAS AN EASY WAY TO GET IT, DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE WAY THEY ARE NOW THEY AREN'T ENTRENCHED IN 2D CULTURE
THAT'S WHY FAGGOT CHARACTERS LIKE KEIMA AND HACHIMAN ARE BELOVED AND IDOLIZED
THEY ARE WHO OTAKU BELIEVE THEY WANT TO BE
If Hachiman actually had dignity, the shit he does would embarrass himself. You haven't proved why you think he has dignity compared to your definition of a true loser. Every time this is pointed out to you, you ignore it.
Dignity does not mean not doing embarrassing things. Dignity means being aware that what you do can be embarrassing. Hachiman does a lot of embarrassing things.
You want to circlejerk about SAO and Mahoka fans. You wanted a thread where you get to jerk off and call others idiots. What you got instead was a thread where you were exposed for being a Gary Stu loving faggot.
How does it feel to know you have shit taste?
>Objective to some people
Isn't this just a neat way of phasing subjective? It's not objective if people disagree.
Listen, I understand you need to resort to insults like babies dropping on head because you've run out of arguments, but let me make this simple.
>Desirable traits subjective.
>What considered "Gary Stu" traits subjective
>"No, 8man a objective Gary Stu!"
This creates a contradiction:
>Subjective traits =/= objectivity
>How 8man is viewed is subjective
>Therefore he is not an objective Gary Stu
Now stop this stupid rant and get out. You are contradicting yourself and majority disagrees with you. Only objectivity that is reachable is argumentum ad populum, in which you already lost.
>>The point is that Hachiman has idealized, unrealistic, impossible-to-attain traits that otaku wish they had.
>You say that, but you've done nothing to prove it.
Not that anon (fortunately), but Hachiman definitely has idealized, unrealistic traits that some otaku probably do wish they had.
Nonetheless, in the context of the story these traits aren't all portrayed in a positive light.
Honestly at this point in the story I'm a little concerned Hachiman will end up having been some 'bait character' for loners, designed to draw them into a story that ultimately tells them "fuck you, you really want to be a social butterfly."
>WAAAAH! MOM! WHY AREN'T PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET AS LOGICAL AND SMART AS ME? WHY AM I CURSED WITH SUCH SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE? WHY WON'T THEY STOP WHINING ABOUT BEING SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES WHEN THEY AREN'T AND I AM?
PRAISE ONII-SAMA AND ONII-SAMA ONLY
He's objectively a Gary Stu for the people who idolize him. There's no such thing as a Gary Stu for all people or even all men.
>A Gary Stu is a Gary Stu because the story and setting bends over to make him likable and successful at what he's supposed to be, not because the readers think he's likable.
A Gary Stu is a Gary Stu because he's a perfect, idealized self-insert that everyone who watches/reads wants to be, including the author.
Everyone who watches that shit wants to be Hachiman, including everyone on /a/ in those shit threads.
>You say that, but you've done nothing to prove it.
Check the archives. /a/ worships him.
Nah, I'm just exposing the truth to people who don't want to hear it.
>BAWWWW WHY CAN'T YOU ACCEPT THAT IM RIGHT AND YOURE WRONG
Nope, you got destroyed. I can make James Bond out to be flawed and three dimensional, but we all know he's a Gary Stu.
Having flaws doesn't make someone not a Gary Stu.
You were proven wrong factually.
Yahari is one of my favorite anime and I have good taste, faggot. Only losers who are insecure about their tastes have bad taste.
>It's not objective if people disagree.
Yes it is. No matter how many people think the earth revolves around the sun, the opposite is objectively true.
>None of what you've said has anything to do with dignity, however
It objectively does. You don't seem to understand the concept of dignity.
Among other things, dignity is not making a fool of yourself. Dignity is not putting yourself out there and having everyone laugh. Dignity is being able to say that you didn't chase; you were chased.
>You've also done nothing to prove that a loser with dignity is impossible.
This doesn't really have to be proven. The bigger problem is that you losers can look in the mirror and convince yourselves you have dignity when you don't.
>Tomoko is a bad example because she is composed of nothing BUT flaws. She someone entirely built around being flawed and has few things to her beyond being a horribly flawed character.
She's very realistic. Most people on /a/ are her to a mirror sheen.