I like Kiritsugu. Can't help but wonder if it's the HF crowd that hates him. He honestly wanted to save humankind, and after all the shit he went through, I'm amazed he could still tell himself that humanity can be saved. That's a really strong dedication to an ideal that I can admire. The problem was his inability to understand that he was literally trying to eliminate an aspect of human nature and thus he was betraying his ideals for a cheap method to obtain an impossible solution. But I forgive, because devotion to an ideal can blind a person.
>>118680660 I think he just should have thought smaller Instead of "eliminating human conflict," what he could have wished for was "the elimination of the will of humans to kill other humans." It wouldn't entirely eliminate human conflict, but I think it'd be something he could actually imagine happening and it'd be a realistic goal that wouldn't entirely change human nature.
All that times he was a mercenary, I bet there was at least one time he pointed a gun at someone, ready to kill that person, and then he thought better of it and put his gun away. All he'd have to do is imagine every human doing that whenever they think about killing someone. Of course, there are cases where you'd have blurred lines, like with the lose-lose choices the Grail presented or in matters of something like abortion, so I'm not sure how it'd apply there, but it's still better than "no one fights, ever again"
>>118681129 Of course. There's a lot more evil in the world than just murder. I'm just saying I think it's something Kiritsugu actually could have pulled off with his Grail wish. I'm not even sure how Angra Mainyu could fuck it up
>>118681280 > Let me be born into this world and kill most of humanity in such fucking gruesome ways that the remaining humans get PTSD every time the thought of killing someone even comes to their minds.
>>118681496 You don't get it. This isn't some genius trying to fuck you up. No matter what you wish the outcome will always be "Angra Mainyu is born and many people die". The only thing you can wish for Angra to do is to kill something. Even wishing to live creates fucked up situations.
>>118681290 I don't know, he wouldn't have sought a miracle if he had hope for humanity. But yeah, he killed the visions of his wife and daughter to save the world, so his detractors need to choke on the dicks they're sucking.
>>118681690 Of course. But doing so is impossible thanks to the fucking Einzberns so enjoy your wish killing a lot of innocents.
>>118681699 The thing trying to be born in FSN wasn't the same as Avenger. If Kotomine succeded that gigantic weird fetus things that you see in HF would have been born and then it would have killed a shitton of people, not Avenger.
>>118681796 Yes because didn't ever bother to teach Shirou about a fucking switch. Magic 101 right there. That means that the time he used projections in front of Kerry; he did the long process of almost killing himself.
Maybe I'm just not understanding the logistics of how or why this is supposed to happen. The whole reason the Grail got corrupt is that Avenger got put into it during the third war. How exactly does that translate to "actual god Avenger is based on being born and causing an infinite stream of fiery black mud to swallow up the Earth"?
Avenger's skin is tattooed head to toe with the wishes of his village. "We wish that Angra Mainyu, all that is evil in this world, is real so that we may be without evil and hate and scorn him", effectively, is the desire they carved into his flesh. Avenger himself is equivalent to a wish, a wish that there is an external "evil" that is independent from mankind. When he fell into the great grail, that all-powerful wishing machine heard a wish, and immediately started granting it...
That is very much incorrect. The persian kid is not and has nothing to do with the vortex of curses. The persian kid's skin is marred with a wish, and the vortex of curses is what is made in response to that wish.
>>118682031 Alright, that makes sense, however, I was under the assumption that the Grail only makes the wish of the victor of the HGW, the person who is there when the Grail is complete, and I was also under the assumption that the Grail was incapable of summoning deities under any circumstance, so there's no way Angra Mainyu could be born to begin with
The Grail is just a really buggy computer. It has a function designed to grant wishes stapled on to lure suckers to their death, and normally only the winner of the fight can access this function. They didn't expect that shoving a servant who's very existence was equivalent to a wish into it would activate it.
But yeah, the one that was summoned was just a farmer boy from ancient persia. Not a god or anything.
>>118679589 This is the Kiritsugu who shot a random bystander along the pier simply because he had good enough reason to suspect he was Caster's master. This is the Kiritsugu who lied to Kayneth just to ensure that he could take out Lancer and both his masters. This is the Kiritsugu who will continue to talk to Natalia just to make sure the plane continues on the expected flight course so he shoot it down over the ocean. Even to the only living person in the world he cared about at the time, he would deceive and kill, simply if his instincts told him that was what he had to do. The difference between this time and all the subsequent times he would do this, is that we see him break down for the first time ever. Here we see the real Kiritsugu, the man filled with emotion, conflicts, doubts, anger, and lost to himself and the world. The face he hides from everyone because he has to, including himself.
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