Remember yesterday how we discussed about the japs not liking UBW because it wasn't written by Urobuchi?
Well, now they're sucking on his dick saying stuff like "why everybody he makes is so good and sells so well!" And as examples they name Expelled, Gargantia, Madoka and UBW. Another japanon had to say that UBW wasn't by Urobuchi.
What's your opinion on him? You knew who he was pre-Madoka? Do you think his post-Madoka works are any good?
He wrote a pretty well-paced kamen rider show in a long while of 2-parters, so I'd say he's great.
It's from Yaron. No shit it's sensationalist. Nips don't all have one mind, you know. There are plenty of retards there too
>What's your opinion on him? You knew who he was pre-Madoka? Do you think his post-Madoka works are any good?
Yes because I'm not a goddamned newfag. Played Inferno and Kikokugai and inferno and all that shit wayy before he became famous.
Honestly his Pre-Madoka VN stuff was the best. His anime have never really been good.
Urobuchi's writing style is pretty engaging but his scenarios are only so-so. My favorite work from him is still Phantom. I'd kill for an English version that doesn't use that goddamn DVD format.
He barely wrote anything for Expelled from Paradise and not to mention the fact that Gen failed to deliver what the director wanted to do with Paradise.
It was supposed to be an anime that would get NEETs to stop being NEETs according to the director.
Gen failed to create such an anime as the director wanted and Paradise didn't know what it wanted to be in the end.
I wish he'd go back to writing visual novels for a bit, or at least write more stories like he did back then. Nothing that tries to be too deep, just great action like Kikokugai, or funny bullshit parody like Django.
I still like anime that he writes, but seems that he's getting bit too formulaic recently. Like he's trying to get in shocking twists and dark shit to everything.
I've been telling people we're pretty much at this point with him for a while now. He's pretty much at the point where he's more important than the rest of the industry combined which is why I've been saying that unless the industry can find an alternative to him it's kind of done. He's totally free to hold the industry hostage at this point if he really wants too.
Let me put it this way, one eroge writer is currently more important than the entire industry including your favorite anime. Though considering most peoples favorite anime now are stuff he writes anyway that might not be that important but rest assured he's the most important thing about it.
Yeah, you're right. I got the two mixed up.
Now as for Paradise, I can't seem to care about the story whenever it involves virtual reality anymore.
The crap that was Matrix trilogy ruined my view on virtual reality settings.
There's no way a guy like him would ever write anything like that. He's pretty much as otaku as they come, have people not seen the picture of him dry humping a life sized blow up doll from the movie. Just look at that and recognize that that represents what many consider to be the absolute best talent and representative that the anime history has to offer at this juncture.
FZ is better than FSN as anime because nobody can adapt a story that isn't cohesive and make it as thrilling as one that is.
Nasu should have rewritten the whole thing in one scenario for the anime.
>"why everybody he makes is so good and sells so well!
Funny how the Japs seem to be unable to remember the Phantom anime much less Blassreiter.
And Blassreiter had Gen being involved way more than shows like Gargantia.
Post Madoka haven't seen new movie yet, but thought gargantia, psycho pass and madoka were all pretty crap. 4/10, 4/10, 5/10. F/Z being exception 8/10.
Although I'm not blaming it all on butchers writing, there were many things that just could've been handled better
I see this bit rehashed in his stuff way more often than I do the whole than the whole x is the humans thing. The latter is still a plot point but man does he ever really drill the whole utilitarian thing home in like everything he writes for. It's gotten to the point where I'm starting to wonder if he has anything else to talk about and why people continue to find his stories so riveting and interesting. Like if people are that fucking into that sort of thing than I recommend reading some John Stuart Mill or something.
Urobuchi writing style in a nutshell
>present conflicting viewpoints and moral ambiguity
>never write one of the viewpoints as being "correct" over the others, letting the audience decide
I feel like most of his fame is earned from never picking sides. He lays things out, like a tabletop RPG, and then lets things play out by themselves.
>getting flashbacks to last night's shit thread
this must be what shirou feels like every day
I've been a big fan since around the time the original fan TL for Saya was released. His works vary in quality, but that quality imo ranges from "pretty good" to "masterpiece". I've never watched a work by him that I disliked.
What are you even on about. He's the only person credited for writing the script and he wrote the whole thing. It's a bit clumsier than Madoka or Psycho-Pass because it was written BEFORE those (the film was in development hell for a few years), and this was the first screenplay that Urobuchi wasn't just jotting down whatever came into the director's head.
>He's pretty much at the point where he's more important than the rest of the industry combined which is why I've been saying that unless the industry can find an alternative to him it's kind of done.
To be fair, Urobuchi did compose the story and he deserves a lot of credit for that, but he also openly admits that Nasu saved his career by giving him Fate/Zero to work on. At the time he was struggling and couldn't come up with anything on his own, so being handed a chance to write as a part of an immensely popular established setting was like a godsend. Fate's universe is expansive, so no matter how detailed it already was there's always room to add more. He was given a few established characters with rich histories and personalities to work with, letting him build on that to do what he does best, which is write human drama.
I just found it funny the way he says it. A lot of his other stuff is great though, and he absolutely deserves credit for Fate/Zero. Another writer passing him an outline is not nearly enough to make a good story; the only thing that was all Nasu there is the setting.
>I've never watched a work by him that I disliked.
Hmm... yeah, that works.
Kikokugai kind of one-ups it and kills off both the "Outer Kung Fu Full Cyborg" guy and the "Inner Kung Fu Human Master Rance" guy at the end and making the fully digitized human have the last laugh.
>Another writer passing him an outline is not nearly enough to make a good story
You mean being handed the Fate universe, one of the most popular VN/anime/manga settings ever, and a chance to write for some of the most popular characters in that setting, their backgrounds, personalities, and designs already being developed and finalized before you were brought onto the project. Urobuchi was given a golden ticket to success, and he did not squander it, he put a tremendous amount of effort into being worthy of that opportunity and F/Z's success shows that.
Nah, there is any writer dicksucking from the manga and anime industry, it is Nisio Isin.
Wasn't Nisio Isin asked to do several oneshots with artists from both Jump and Kondansha a few months ago?
Meanwhile, Gen mainly gets dicksucked by Shaft and IG and zero dicksuckings from manga publishers.
Meanwhile, Nisio Isin got dicksucked by Shaft, Gainax, and White Fox but Shaft sucks Nisio Isin dick far more than Gen dick.
I don't think I've watched a show written by Gen that I like. Madoka might have been the closest but the last two episodes nixed it for me. Personally, I think he's overhyped, in fact he's like the Joss Whedon of anime, loads of casuals jump his dick because he's involved in the construction of above average anime serials, generally but doesn't deliver at the level they would otherwise have you believe.
I was actually just thinking the other day that he really reminds me of Shyamalan in a lot of ways. He's not nearly as pretentious in the long run but he writes really stiff unnatural sounding dialogue and characters like him, loves that sort of shocker twist albeit his are usually much darker than Shyamalan's and like him he keeps rehashing the same basic themes and ideas across all his works.
With Shyamalan it's something kind of like how the universe always has some grand plan for us and things will take the course they're meant to as a sort of butterfly effect and with Urobuchi it's something like the universe is a cold harsh place that's going to fuck you over and fuck you over hard and only those that can embrace that reality (in his eyes at least) can ever stand a chance to fight back against it. Also as others have mentioned he seems to like working in some utilitarian themes and dissonant inherently contradictory societal makeups (Incubators, Alliance, Sybil System, Paradise) that at least in his eyes justify their existence through some form of necessity and thus must be allowed to exist, but I've never felt he's actually succeeded at convincing me as to why in the long run giving his works an incomplete unfinished feel. I also find he rarely ever gives his principal characters any actual choice in the events at hand and what's really happening is more him stacking the deck and odds against certain ones based on their ideology and seeing how they get fucked over as a result that dictates the pace and nature of his stories more than the true nature of the universe and justice itself. At the end of the day while I find some of his stories interesting I've never taken anything away from them in particular and find what seems to be his overall philosophical leaning to kind of just be bullshit albeit bullshit he's entitled too.
>Meanwhile, Nisio Isin anime have a far better track record than Gen's anime.
Madoka equals or outperforms -monogatari's adaptations (only some arcs of the first season outperformed it in disc sales, Bakemonogatari has been still going strong but decreasing in selling power each season), Katanagatari didn't do as well as Psycho-Pass or Gargantia (they're all about the same in initial disc sales, but both P-P and Gargantia got sequels, spinoff works, P-P's box set sold more copies than the average of the original release), and Medaka Box sold less than 1K average so I have no idea what you're talking about here.
And that's because Kerry was a stupid manchild. You can't expect to butcher people for a magic object and expect that magic object to eliminate all evil in the world. He was very childish and acted as if he could determine all possible utility.
I dropped Blassreiter while Yasuko Kobayashi was still writing the scripts (she wrote the first nine episodes), so I never got far enough to get to the parts Urobuchi actually wrote.
You're delusional. You think if Urobuchi made up an original story with more or less the same kind of drama in F/Z it would have been even a quarter as popular? Fate has a built-in dedicated audience.
He was given several established characters and a well developed setting and told to go nuts as long as he included the events described in F/SN. It was more than an "outline," he was given some of the most popular characters of our time in one of the most beloved franchises of the time.
It's not an outline. The major plot points are the heart of the plot. The execution is only the outlook that lets the viewer/reader interpret the plot points more.
Without the roots, there is nothing. Nasu wrote the characters before Urobuchi brought them to life.
As you are trivializing the role Nasu and T-M played in Urobuchi's success. Gen himself credits Nasu for saving his career, you cannot downplay what a major opportunity being given F/Z to work on was. Anyone who got that project would have made a name for himself to some degree, Nasu probably knew that Gen would make the absolute most of the chance.
As far as Uro anime goes, he's good at worldbuilding, but generally squanders the potential. For example, most of Gargantia was pointless filler and even the episodes he did write were not that good. Ledo's character development was predicable and boring. The final conflict with Krugal was horribly rushed too.
Of course he deserves credits but you're exaggerating when you're saying "Another writer passing him an outline is not nearly enough to make a good story" when a story is nothing but major plot points.
The WRITING is different than the story. It's more than a story because it also includes dialogue and execution in form of symbolism, etc..
He deserves credit for bringing the story of Fate SN's prequel to life and that's called writing.
>You think if Urobuchi made up an original story with more or less the same kind of drama in F/Z it would have been even a quarter as popular?
I'm talking about the quality, not the popularity. It definitely wouldn't have been as popular.
Nothing he has made since has ever done any worse than 8K that I am aware of. The current sales average over his career in anime is about 28044 before we count EFP which nobody really knows where it's going to land up once it finally stops selling out. It's hard to say whether that's all him or the fact that he's been really fortunate to get paired up with a lot of super groups with a lot of financial backing and pimping the shit out of his name and other popular staffers but I think it's safe to say he's a pretty popular brand right now. Also I'm far from an Urobuchi fag, I'm just being realistic, the guy has been extremely successful in a fairly short amount of time.
>Madoka equals or outperforms -monogatari's adaptations
Except it doesn't. Deal with it, Gentard.
>Katanagatari didn't do as well as Psycho-Pass or Gargantia (they're all about the same in initial disc sales, but both P-P and Gargantia got sequels, spinoff works, P-P's box set sold more copies than the average of the original release)
Katangatari's discs were more expensive than both Psycho Pass and Gargantia and was a completed story.
Psycho Piss and Gargantia only got sequels because of how shit and incomplete their stories were and you can remain in denial but no one honestly gives a fuck about the Gargantia OVAs.
>and Medaka Box sold less than 1K average so I have no idea what you're talking about here
Blassreiter and Phantom had a less than 1K average as well.
Have to disagree with thrilling. While F/SN has its moments there's just a lot of buildup and exposition before then. This is fine since it's divided into three routes carrying the progression of a single theme. Not to mention it's also extremely long. Fate/Zero is much shorter and tightly packed in its narrative. Events happen quicker than they do in UBW which is a lot of slow buildup and foreshadowing. I appreciate both but I find F/Z more thrilling in the short run and F/SN more fulfilling in the long run.
Guy who made the post about Gen not giving his characters a real choice and stacking the deck against them here. That was kind of literally just because he got to the end and found out that it was more or less all a sham. There's hardly anything he could have done to predict or respond to that and pretty much literally just Gen doing his usual shocker "FOOLED YOU!" twist.
So F/z is just shock value? Gotcha.
>inb4 you're shitposting
Nope. At the very least, you can't deny Caster's arc was nothing but shock value.
Kerry shooting his mentor's plane was also for cheap shock. There was no reason for him to blow the plane when she could have crashed it. That scene was done to show Kerry going through another of his manchild "muh good of the many of an uninhabited island over the few".
The only good thrilling aspect of F/Z was Kirei's story and slightly good thrilling was Kariha's fall (that one was pretty obvious but the execution wasn't bad).
I'm not trivializing Nasu's role. I mentioned how I acknowledge that Nasu saved Urobuchi's writing career yesterday, and because it's called for I'll repeat that again today. But I can't even begin to describe to any of you how many times I've heard a cool sounding premise and had the actual story turn into absolute shit because that was all there was, plot "points". The single thing I am trying to say is that Gen role was important and essential, that is all.
>>Kerry shooting his mentor's plane was also for cheap shock.
At least it gave us this webm.
The only things I like Madoka for were the designs. music, and the visuals. Not a big fan of the story, honestly.
Gargantia was kinda boring, but the girls were hot and Sugibot was the best character of the season.
Psycho-pass was fun in a silly way. Is it well written? That's debatable, but I don't think it's anything to splooge over. Show was more fun than good.
Fate/zero was okay. UBW=Last days of HF>Zero>early days of heaven's feel>fate
All in all, I think he's okay but seriously overrated.
Anything I missed?
Apparently you need to. Since Madoka he's sold 8k or above.
Madoka - 78k, movies 1+2 = 100k, movie 3= 180k
Fate/Zero - 52k first box, 47k second box
Psycho Pass- 8.4k, 9k box
A/Z - currently 8k at 5 vol
EFP - 30k so far and this was only the first batch not counting two more batches which have been sold out on Amazon.
PP2- this may not hit 8k not sure yet, sales next week will tell
>how many times I've heard a cool sounding premise
Stop bullshitting just so you can win an internet argument. The premises you read weren't detailed major plot scenarios and detailed character personalities+other characteristics. You read synopsis. You weren't reading a draft.
I think the dicksucking is mainly by Aniplex in the long run. They're the ones that are basically pushing these guys on the industry and fans the most right now and while they clearly have a lot of fans I'm already pretty weary of them and wondering if the industry has any other big things to offer of interest besides "Here have more Urobuchi story concepts....and more budget thrown at the show....and hey while we're at it have Sawano and/or Kajiura on music because everyone loves those people over and over again right!"
It's kind of all becoming so assembly line and cyclical it's painful to watch in a way even if I don't necessarily dislike any of those people aside from Nisio so much as I think they are exhaustingly played out even if Japan cannot seem to get enough of them.
I enjoyed Saya, Madoka and Psycho Pass S1 before ever learning who he was
and knowing didn't affect my opinion anyways
I loved Fate Zero and I was disappointed by Gargantia
Aldnoah is pretty bad but he's not really to blame
>Know who he was pre-Madoka
Yes, and if you didn't you shouldn't be posting on /a/.
I've yet to read/watch anything written by Urobuchi that was seriously bad. The problem with Urobuchi isn't Urobuchi, it's how horribly fans overrate him because the kind of content he generates tends to hit that sweet spot that retards who make too much noise love. Most of what he's done is best described as "alright".
There's two particularly big offenders in regards to Urobuchi's being overrated. F/Z really is a pretty good story and deserves legit good vibes, but hardly warrants the ridiculously overblown reputation it has among many fans. Madoka, on the other hand, is an absolute trainwreck from a writing standpoint, but because it's got that typical Urobuchi SUFFERING applied where it wouldn't be expected, glossed over with a flashy paint job, people go bananas acting like Urobuchi is the second coming.
Were those sales within the first year? Not to argue against the premise of your argument, I am curious because people on /a/ love to talk about sales but it seems the duration of the sales aren't talked about.
Maybe not at the time he wrote it but right now who knows. All I'm curious about is to see if the Psycho Pass movie suddenly becomes a mega smash hit seller despite the series only ever being modestly popular in Japan at best and the second season really damaging the franchises reputation and canon. If it does I think it's pretty safe to say without much doubt that it's Urobuchi's name that is making these things sell and not anything else to do with the status and popularity of the franchises he's writing for. Also when I see Kamen Rider Gaim vs. Baron suddenly getting massive preorders on amazon despite Tokusatsu stuff rarely ever selling anywhere near that high I have to wonder if he doesn't just have this base group of fans that will unconditionally buy anything he's credited for writing now.
But again, look at the actual anime Gen has been involved in. Madoka is easily the best, followed by F/Z. PP is okay/fun but besides that? Ugh. The guy has done some other stuff that's good, but anime isn't his forte.
Shock value can be thrilling too. I admit Caster didn't really add much to the story other than being a crazy ass motherfucker but it was still thrilling the way his arc was portrayed. He was shown to be this character much worse than Ryuunosuke and then you have both of them fucking shit up in Fuyuki. I wanted to see how he would pay for all the shit he caused, and him summoning that tentacle creature and practically all the servants and masters meeting up at the Mion River was exciting. I had no exact idea who was going to live or die and the pace was just going so rapidly I couldn't keep my eyes off the screen.
You're not wrong, but I'm wondering what you're trying to say with your post.
>The single thing I am trying to say is that Gen's role was important and essential, that is all.
I straight out mentioned in my last post exactly what I am trying to prove here.Are you disagreeing or just trying to say that Nasu had a bigger role than I'm implying? In which case, sure why not.
>Stop bullshitting just so you can win an internet argument. The premises you read weren't detailed major plot scenarios and detailed character personalities+other characteristics. You read synopsis. You weren't reading a draft.
Both Nasu and Urobuchi brainstormed most of the characters together while F/HA was being written (volume 1 of F/Z was done before F/HA even), which is why you can find references to F/Z characters and events in F/HA.
Everyone in F/Z was created by Nasu and Urobuchi working together, with the exception of Caster and Ryunosuke, which was pretty much all Urobuchi, and Rider who was already decided as a character by Nasu as a participant in the 4th war before the idea of Fate/Zero was even a thing. Nasu's gone on record saying that Rider was handled very differently from how he would've written him.
Those were sales counting up to the first week sales of the final volume of the respective series which is usually within a year from the release of the first volume. They may be slightly higher now.
The Gen hype for works like FZ is just completely idiotic. Nasu was probably more famous than him when he wrote FZ and if anything FZ's hype is more due to FSN than him. For things like Psycho Pass, Gargantia, or AZ the hype is understandable, but from works before most people probably even knew who he was? That's just ignorant.
F/Z is a pretty interesting story. I actually liked Psycho Pass best from him since to me it feels the least otaku oriented which is a subculture I don't really identify much with and the more a show pushes it the less I tend to like it. Madoka is pretty solid but has it's good episodes and just really dumb episodes. For example the one episode that people rave about that has Homura's backstory to me is just not a well done origin episode at all and I never bought how she's supposed to go from one extreme to the other in terms of characterization even with the whole exposition about time looping and what not. Too much telling and not nearly enough showing.
Other than that yeah I agree that the Urobuchi wanking has gotten way out of hand which is why I'm glad that both Yaraon and /a seem to be having this discussion right now when I think it's needed most to try to get a grip and perspective on the guy and his reputation already.
So I just remembered that Gaim isn't an anime. And Saya is a VN. Okay, fine. In terms of anime I think that F/Z and Madoka are great while PP is pretty good. Other than that if you're talking about stuff like Bleissreiter I agree.
It has literally never happened on 4chan that the hivemind's opinion authentically swung one way or the other due to real reasons of merit, discussion, and intellectual thinking
It has, every single time, been contrarianism or due to some perceived aggression of normalfags/etc that are unwanted
This exact point has been brought up on the linked yaraon article multiple times. Anime has really and I mean really fucking bad and clueless writers for original anime which make Urobuchi look like an absolute god by comparison at least in terms of being able to write anything remotely interesting over an extended period.
>Too much telling and not nearly enough showing.
I don't get this criticism at all. They never straight-up tell you that Homura became a hardened bitch or anything like that. They show her change.
>Shock value can be thrilling too
It's a cheap shot at thrilling. It's still thrilling like how badly written sex scenes are still erotic. But it's bad eroticism.
True but the major characters (Kirei, Tokiomi, Kiritsugu, Gilgamesh, Saber) were already written in FSN and their backstory as well.
I don't deny Urobuchi deserves credit for FSN. I'm saying it's not black and white.