>Time is 7:10 on the clock
>10+7 is 17, all characters in this story are over 18 years old.
Archer died at the age of 35
17 and 18 are also the names of the androids in the Dragon Ball Z arc where Trunks comes from the future, an screwed future? yeah just like archer's.
mind = blown
What other things can you notice?
Consult the chart, but Arc summoned as Berserker isn't really a top tier servant at all. She lost most of her abilities, as all she has is pure power. Yet even that power is still barely a fourth of her normal (30%) abilities. Arc 30% with all abilities functioning and sane is noted to be in the broken tier of CCC, but Berserker Arc is beatable in comparison. She doesn't even have her Ultimate One ability.
Top tier servants are ones like
Hercules outside of Berserker class
Saber with Avalon
More those types
Out of the ones just mentioned, strongest single one is BB followed by Protea, but it's more than just a cheat to mention something like that. Which is why they usually aren't counted.
I see, my bad. I was under the impression that servants were actually stronger than the people they're based from. Is it explained why some people are just literal gods among men?
Incidentally, it's said that within the Moon Cell, out of all the Servants, the only one who stands a chance against ol' White-Face is Arcueid.
So as far as the Moon Cell's concerned, it's
White-Face > Gilgamesh > Arcueid ≥ White-Face
>Is it explained why some people are just literal gods among men?
People were just stronger back then, and sometimes being worshiped as more than human makes them even stronger.
Older humans had way more mana and were way stronger on average, to the point that around Gilgamesh time people were like Superman compared to people these days.
The more humans there are, the more power is spread out between them all.
It could stand to be noted a bit just in case some misunderstand. Arc is the only one that can beat whitey(noted to be a low chance even), but that's not to say that others can't beat Arcueid. It's like saying "Shirou can beat Gilgamesh, so Shirou is the strongest servant". Really it's about compatibility, Arc is the only one that can bring Ammy down to her level. Others have the same sort of compatibility against Arc, or could give her a harder time than Ammy, but those aren't compatibility match ups quite as much.
In that measurement it was also noted to be sane Arc with all abilities functioning, Ultimate one activated so she's one level above opponent, 1/6th modifier active so the opponents stats are reduced to 1/6th of what they normally are, etc.
It's noted that Berserker was not supposed to be her class, normally she'd be summoned in a special class called something like "Funny-Vamp/Temptress"
Its in her bio
However since her master sucked, and worshiped her as a god, she came out greatly weakened.
Divine spirits are above natural phenomenon in the Mooncell, but when its just one guy worshiping you who doesn't even believe in gods, it won't really get you very far, and in fact might limit you quite a bit.
The Mooncell in general, is not really the best place for Arcuied to fight.
>Ultimate One [Skill]
>White Berserker's skill.
>A skill that brings up one's specs a notch higher than your opponent by receiving backup from the planet. Or it should have, had it not been for her Master, Gatou’s misunderstanding.
>If it was on Earth or if the opponent were a product of the Earth it’d activate without penalty, but on the Moon Cell there are restrictions to its duration and it seems that there are beings there of a scale it can’t exceed.
>but on the Moon Cell there are restrictions to its duration and it seems that there are beings there of a scale it can’t exceed.
Mainly note the end of that line. On Earth she can hold no equal, but there's some strange ass shit on the Moon. Divine spirits become truth there, meaning whatever they claimed to be on Earth, they now functionally are.
>02 - "True Ancestor"
>A true Ancestor who has been twisted and warped by Monji Gatou's delusions.
>Because she is first and foremost an Elemental of the Earth, her presence and activities in the Moon Cell causes excessive stress within the systems. Although categorized as a Berserker, her original class was actually more akin to "Temptress" than anything else. If she were summoned as a Temptress, her powers would be like the following:
>A Blood Drinker that drains the life from her opponent; A Life Eater that consumes her foe's vitality; A Financial Crisis where electronic trading decimates an entire nation's economy; In other words, her actions, while evil and without justification, would come as naturally to her as breathing.
>Although summoned by Monji Gatou, her true "Master" is apparently a young Japanese student by the name of Shiki. And on a totally unrelated note, the fox-eared Caster gets along very well with her as it is believed that they share the same basic origins.
This is the part that mentions her other class.
When mentioning there's beings she would have trouble surpassing, it feels like this was one that they had in mind.
>Real Name: Kingprotea
>Alignment: Lawful Good
>Noble Phantasm: -
>Alter Ego of thirst of love.
>G means gigantism, growing, greed.
>It was formerly sealed at the ends of the imaginary number space.
>Alter Egos are complexes made from several goddesses, however Protea is created from the essence of the great Mother Goddess that is common throughout all mythologies. Her self can be treated as a Noble Phantasm as she does not >possess a Noble Phantasm. As with the Golden White Face, she's a hazard that can only be overcome in battle through the combined strength of several servants.
>■ Huge Scale - EX
>A cheat skill that evolved from Self-Modification.
>There is no limit to how large she can get. Once the upper limit is reached, the upper limit is further increased. This is infinitely repeated. Basically infinite growth of infinite growth.
>Anywho, she's a planet destroying universe level disaster, but giant transformation makes her lose complex intelligence and function. This skill cannot bear common sense, so one completely self-destructs.
>■ Grow Up Grow - EX
>Cheat Skill evolving from Experience Point Bonus.
>Experience Point Bonus allows one to gain a bonus percentage of experience points after a battle. King Protea's skill cheats and changes it to "Always gaining Experience Points."
>■ Self-Suggestion - EX
>Suggestion applied to oneself.
>A skill that raises resistance against mental interference. At A rank "I do not age = Truly stops aging" level of assumption is possible. At EX level, whatever is going on in that mental world is outside of understanding.
Wow great joke op.
Just like 'muh illuminati' jokes, really funny.
For any one servant to beat Arc, she'd usually have to be weakened rather a bit here. Gilgamesh holds an advantage primarily just because she cannot receive any backup based on his weapons, meaning he'll have the fire-power of five servants while she'll have the power of 2-4 at best. Against any other servant one on one particularly, she can just go a level above them. Although supposedly two servants could potentially beat her normally.
>Question: How strong are Servants?
>Kinoko: Well you see, attack power is about the same as one fighter. A fighter has way too much power for one person too stand up against, but to destroy one city they'll have to refuel many times. But what makes these guys dangerous is that since they're spiritual bodies, regular weapons won't work against them. As far as destructive power goes, there are more numerous powerful weapons among modern ones, but as normal weapons won't do a thing to them, they're among the most powerful.
>Anyway, just as fighters can load a nuclear warhead, they each have their own Noble Phantasms and among the Servants there are ones that have ridiculously powerful ones. That's why when I meant strength being the same as a fighter I thought it would be easier to image.
>Oh and, if I were to say it in a sort of non-serious way, they'd be 1/4th of Tsukihime's Arcueid I suppose? The strength of one I mean. Against one Servant, Arc would probably win, but against two, while Arc's having trouble against the one, the other could get behind her and nail her... maybe.
Also Gae Bolg is stated to be able to kill her
>On the other hand, those with conceptual effects, destiny interference types fall into a special category. With Gae Bolg (regular), no matter how much Arcueid might be superior to Lancer in numbers, she will be killed depending on her luck, you see.
So, to those who have already read the VN: could Rin actually use her pendant in a better way than saving Shirou? I kinda doubt it. When you think about it, saving Shirou was about the best decision she ever made, from the point of surviving and winning the war.
Gae Bolg is like... in RPG terms it's like trying to poison an enemy, if they have poison resistance.
No matter how much resistance they might have, there's still a chance it can hit perfectly. No matter how little resistance they have, there's still a chance they can avoid it, but it depends on how much of a chance.
Lets say someone with A rank luck, they could have a 90% chance of avoiding it normally, but 10% of the time they will still get struck down. Someone with E rank luck, there might be a 90% chance they'll get hit, but there's still a 10% chance they can avoid it. Those numbers are made up on the spot, but you get the idea. No matter how small of a chance it might be, either option is still possible. The chances scale depending on how much luck you might hold.
Even if Arcuied has more luck than Saber, not that we really know, there's still a chance she can be struck down depending on how the dice rolls. Even if it's a one in twenty chance to get a Natural 20, sometimes it does happen.
Yeah, Gae Bolg is totally like something in D&D, something like a saving throw. How much of a chance it is depends on how bad or good your rolls it that turn, some naturally have more of a chance than others, but freak chances can still occur easily.
Would be real useful.
I'm just baffled by her father or whoever it was saying she might win the whole war on her own just with that gem.
Sure, he didn't know about Gil or about just how OP the Servants in this particular war are, but really? What exactly would she use it for?
And the funniest thing? He was right. It was ultimately this pendant that decided the whole war, and it really did put her in the best position she could be in: with a powerful ally who has a specific obsession with saving other people, especially his allies.
her future Servant, retroactively. Without the pendant, she likely wouldn't even be able to summon anyone.
It's a theme with Rin, whenever she picked the path of a human rather than the path of a magus like her father, it always turned out better in the long or short run. Yet she usually picks such a path in the spur of the moment, while thinking she'll pick the other direction normally.
She'll die, but like all Aristotle she won't stay dead.
Although a true Aristotle wouldn't even die that much normally. Death is a flaw, and all perfect beings are without flaws, death is impossible for them to hold within them. Arc holds death during the day, but not at night.
Aristotles don't die at all. Destroying their body is meaningless. Even if you chopped them into pieces and made it so that their body can't reform itself, that still doesn't qualify as "death" for them. Even if you completely disintegrated their bodies into non-existence, they still wouldn't be "dead".
It's what I said basically, death is an impossibility for an Aristotle. They can not hold flaws to begin with since that would be a contradiction for a perfect being, and death is a flaw. For Arc death is still possible due to a combination of holding back blood-lust and not really being like her papa yet, but even for her death is basically impossible in the long run.
It's more possible than others since she can die for even a few minutes, but she won't stay dead unless you did something as much as stabbing her dot of death. However even Shiki was never able to see that much on her, the best he could do was the lines. The only other way might be to use Black Barrel to inject a flaw upon their being, to give them a concept of death when they would previously not have such a thing.
However even those two things are unlikely to really work.
Should be noted that for a normal Aristotle, seeing lines or dots of death is impossible in the first place, since something like death cannot possibly be in them, as they are perfect beings. Eyes of death are entirely useless.
Death is possible because she's not perfect. The fact that the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are visible on her is proof of that.
Those lines wouldn't be visible on an Aristotle. They don't have deaths. Arcueid does.
Without the pendant, she likely wouldn't even be able to summon anyone.
But summoning works even without a special catalyst. Even Ryuunosuke managed to summon one despite having no catalyst and being a complete novice.
He had a catalyst, his family were once magus or at least had some magus blood in them, his sister inherited the blood from that generation, but he killed her.
He took the book from his old house as a goof without actually knowing or expecting shit, but no matter how loose the association, it still worked. He meant it to all be a joke to freak the kid out for fun, but it oddly did do something.
Catalyst is necessary, this is something hammered in in UBW in a certain scene, there can be no summoning without a catalyst. However, no matter how you try to summon, something will inherently be chosen as the catalyst as the grail looks around the immediate area until it can go "Close enough". The grail, if no other masters can be found, then it will accept some pretty loose shit as "Close enough".
The more warped the catalyst though, the looser the association, the more warped the hero at times.
Just look at Jack the Ripper in Apoc and how the master thought that was supposed to work as the catalyst. Guy ended up summoning "The accumulation of dead kids in Britain from that time-period" or some shit, because he did it so wrong.
He's a guardian, he can be summoned at any point in time, from all points, to solve problems through history.
He was summoned into the past more than a few times. You can note that every time he saw "that" in the dream sequence, it meant he was returning to Alaya.
He likens it to reading a book, but it's not literally like that. He sees himself throughout time, the various records of his activities, watching himself through that lens as he slaughters many to protect those unaware of danger after it has already occurred. He does have memories of himself as a guardian, Rin in that dream sequence exactly recalls his memories as a guardian if you'll recall.
You'll remember that point in UBW if you go back and read; "This time the dream did not end there, it keeps going, and I see hell". When Tohsaka could see what made him lose hope after death, what made him lose faith.
Tohsaka seeing his memories as a guardian during the dreams during the last dream sequence, of course he can "remember" it as well somewhat.
If we go with that, then don't you need a catalyst in order to summon a spirit? Rin got Archer due to using the gem that originally saved his life. How would someone summon Archer in a previous grail war?
Unless the grail war isn't the only time a heroic spirit can be summoned. I read the VN 5 years ago so I'm pretty hazy on the whole thing.
Within the Mooncell "Divine spirits > Natural Phenomenon", so that line of logic in itself is broken, as your Gaia rules don't work here.
>Incidentally, in the EXTRA world where the information world has become more mainstream than the physical world, she isn't so all-powerful.
>In the information world, legends become truth, so the deifications of natural phenomena, the so-called "Gods" often have powers greater than that of the original natural phenomena.
>Still, there's no mistake about her being on the broken level if she gained her sanity back.
Within the Mooncell Divine Spirits are above her by nature, rather than the other way around. Because they become truth. However turning Arc into a divine spirit in name worked about as well as turning Berserker Hercules into a Dark servant.
With Alter it powered her up, but with Hercules it just pure fucked him up. As a divine spirit in the Mooncell you become what you are believed to be through faith, but as no one worshiped her among other things, she could only lose power because of this. As a divine spirit she wasn't even believed to be beyond the planet, and thus she became much less than her normal self.
Meanwhile Ammy is worshiped as something beyond the planet, so in the Mooncell she becomes such a thing.
He's a Counter Guardian, brought in to clean up the mess whenever something happpens to threaten humanity. Which is (or was) presumably pretty fucking often. Though how some King and knights took out a counter guardian is a little curious, but I guess if we suppose some of them were actually Saber-like then it could totally happen. Or if they just laid a trap for him, or if he was trying to rebel against his CG duties and it lead to him getting ganked (thought usually a CG summoning in this way leaves him largely mindless, I think).
Isn't this basically terminator except kyle reese is sent back to save himself but wants to kill himself instead?
Mooncell itself has become Type Moon in this world-line seemingly, after it has become the new Ultimate One of the Moon after it gained the access rights of the Earth or something. Type is a title given to the strongest of each place, and with the old one dead Mooncell has taken that title.
>Official name: Moon Cell Automaton.
>An energy-storing body discovered inside the moon.
>An artifact constructed by non-human intelligent life.
>A super computer that is the setting for Fate/EXTRA.
>The existence of up to a seventh level has been structurally identified in cyberspace, and the first level, the surface of the moon, is accessible by even normal hackers.
>Going beyond the inner second level is difficult for non-wizards check, there is no way to get inside physically.
>Without soul transference, without having a data body converted into virtual spiritrons, it isnt possible to look into the abyss.
>In the case of the magi of the old world, they had made contact with the moon cell as a part of meditation without having to use radio waves.
>The Moon Cell is, in a manner of speaking, an eye that observes the Earth.
>A processor that faithfully simulates all life on Earth and is capable of providing a definite prediction of the future.
>A database of humanity. A massive memory recording their habits, history, ideas, even their souls. A pandorafs box that promises the next stage of evolution, promises god-like power to those intelligent lifeforms who have become technologically advanced enough to scan the interior of the moon.
>Originally it was an observation device left behind by an alien civilization. It had only recorded the nature of life on Earth, but after many years it came to possess its current abilities.
>Though an observation device initially, it could not leave anything unseen in its observations.
>(Heisenberg''s uncertainty principle. The observer determines an event by observing it. What isn''t observed is not certain).
>Which is (or was) presumably pretty fucking often
You're thinking about it a little bit wrong. Remember that the Throne of Heroes exists outside of time, and as such it exists outside of the kaleidoscope of parallel worlds. He would have been able to be summoned to any time period in any parallel world.
>An observation device must be fair. If it is to observe, there must be nothing unseen. Thus, it required capabilities for knowing everything about the Earth.
>To record all things without bias, it needed performance greater than that of an observation device.
>And so, it had made a giant leap in evolution.
>It had enhanced its functions to the point where it advanced from making observations to supervising, even having control of the administration of the planet.
>The greater its enhancements, the more complicated its administration policy.
>It created many terminals and even made artificial intelligences to manage functions for each section.
>(These were later utilized for the NPCs and advanced AIs of the Holy Grail War)
>However, it firmly refused to install an artificial intelligence for itself.
>The observer must not have a mind.
>For the observer to have a mind would result in the meaning of things being decided by the observer.
>Thus, it kept to maintaining its absolute objectivity as an eye, doing so while always dismantling the emerging semblances of sapience that it had incorporated to administrate its functions.
>Thus, this computer has no conception of good and evil, no desire for the future, not even an outcome.
>It is simply there.
>A type-writer left behind by god.
>An observation lens bored in the moon.
>Later, the crystal ball of dreams would come to be called this.
>An eye of the moon.
>A bottomless Klein cube.
>An ownerless Type Moon which has read aloud all of this planet.