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Lancer is one of the three sacred knight-class...
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Lancer is one of the three sacred knight-class Servants yet he is always the bottom bitch. Why is that?
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>>117538394
BECAUSE SABER STRONK.
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Cu is stronger than Emiya.
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Because most people don't realize that pole arms trump swords.
So heroes are generally equipped with a sword and no shield because shields are for faggots. Getting a spear is therefore a side character weapon and the fantasy equivalent of a red shirt.
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E Luck.
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>>117538394
>yet he is always the bottom bitch.
but thats not real assassin
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>>117538615
>pole arms trump swords
>1 on 1
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Lancer disappears for most of the route and suddenly reappears towards the end.

Why did Bazette have to die? Fucking Kirei.
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Since when were archers knights, they were the guys in the back giving you fire support.
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Because worst luck.
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How did a conartist get away with making the same story twice?
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>>117538440
This is hilarious. Is there more?
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>>117538804
That isn't what Madan is telling me. Archers are front row and they suck venom out of titties.
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>>117538804
Fuck you, Gawain.
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>>117538753
They actually do retard. Only a shield can overturn the colossal difference between the two.
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We won't even get this, I bet. What a way to tease us.
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>>117538753
>Actually believing swords are good for anything
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>>117538753
>Kojiro are you still bitter you got your ass whooped by a paddle?
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Blame Kotomine.
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>>117538999
1 on 1 swords counter spears. Spears have the advantage as long as they keep the opponent at a distance, which is way easier if you have a phalanx. As for 1 on 1, a sword user can hit the spear away, grab it, and quickly close the distance.
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>>117538999

Zweihanders were literally made to disarm polearm/pike users.

>>117539087

Swords are great for mowing down a large number of enemies, see the Gladius.
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>>117539203
I don't think you understand how spears are used in combat.

It's not just a tame stabbing motion.
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>>117539197
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>>117538804
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>>117539203
Are you a fucking idiot?

Swords beat axes, not spears. Then axes beat lances and lances beat swords.
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>>117539225
Zweihanders are a different matter.
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>You will never give Lancer the happy ending he deserves
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>>117539087
They are for 1 on 1. Swords lose when they are against more spears. Zweihanders has been used to break phalanxes though, but they weren't really fighting as much as they were just charging in swinging their swords and hoping for the best.
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Anyone got more of these?
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>>117539225
They are also made to guard passages and lop the legs off horses. You can cleave a man in two with one.
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>>117539192
Dat speedboning. Sasuga Lancer, the fastest Heroic Spirit.
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>>117538753
I'm aware this is trout, but here:
If you first use common sense, you see that a spear is way longer than a sword, like, nearly twice as long if you're dueling.
Now remember that spears are used to stab and poke. Slapping a standard spear aside will open a window of opportunity for about the same length of time it takes for you to bring your sword too.

In this case, however, it's simply up to the direction of the fiction to make it as entertaining as possible.

>>117538615
It's also in part that they are not from the Japanese Mythos. Japan knows that both Japan and Weeaboos think Japan is the best.
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>>117539234
Enlighten me. Do you do fabulous superfluous spins to spice it up?
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Vita OPs for everyone.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eumsv0MiRXw

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV4yJoQ4cIQ
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>>117539330
shit like this is why Urobuchi is the better writer
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>>117539315
>I bet Saber is Joan of Arc
Lost it.
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>>117539203
>>117539225

If you're talking about the long spear then yes that's absolutely true because they were intended to be used en mass. The short spear is different, on hand is held near the center of mass and the other further back to use the other hand as a fulcrum. It can be very fast and with much better leverage because of the longer level length compared to two hands on a sword.
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>>117539411
Beast's Lair need to hurry up with that OP/Soundtrack patch. The new scenes and voices can come later.
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>>117539411
>Dat Caren
>Dat Ilya
>Dat Sakura
Glorious

And Aimer is mai waifu
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>>117539393
>Now remember that spears are used to stab and poke. Slapping a standard spear aside will open a window of opportunity for about the same length of time it takes for you to bring your sword too.
And meanwhile you are in control. you set the opponent off. He is with his front to you and can only retreat backwards while you close the distance. You have to take steps back and even then shorten your spear quickly. A spear would be in a more defensive state against a sword user since you'd have to be careful not to get your spear either grabbed or smashes away.
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>>117539432
Zero had good plot shit, but all the good characters were the returning ones minus saber and Iskandar.
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>>117539411
so since we got the HA patch, how long will it take for us to get a patch for the vita stuff on the PC version
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>>117539411
Now THOSE are Fate songs.

Not fucking Lisa, not fucking kalafina, not fucking Ayano Mashiro.

BASED AIMER.
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>>117538394
Kotomine gave zero shits.

Kayneth was frying chicken.
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>>117539432
Shit like that is where half the work is already done for him
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>>117539526
3 years.

IIIIIIT'S AAAAAALL NOTHIIIIIIIIING
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>>117539512
are you implying that fast wheels, lancer and sola were bad characters?
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Lancer could only quietly lower his head and silently endure the ferocious scolding.
"You were only to protect a woman temporarily. But you could not even do it; this is preposterous! So this is what a so-called knight is made of!"
Kayneth was currently cursing, spit flying everywhere. But from the extent of disconcertment, compared to Lancer who forgot himself out of shame, Kayneth was actually even more out of things. Because of his naturally stubborn personality, now the extent of Lord El-Melloi’s anger was filled with righteous indignation to the point of being fear-inducing.
Kayneth had obtained a new Command Seal; satisfied, he had returned to the abandoned factory that he used as a hiding place, and found that there was in fact no sign of Sola there. Logically speaking, at this time she should already have ended the battle with Caster and returned here. He had waited in a state of anxiety brought on by worry, and waited until—the solitary return of Lancer, whose expression was serious.
"Though it was only a temporary substitution, Sola was undoubtedly your Master, was she not! You actually do not have the ability to guard her till the end—why did you become a Servant? How can you be so shameless as to return alone!"
"...I truly do not have the dignity to return."
"Then you—in the battle with Caster, was it also your foolish childishness that encouraged you to neglect the protection of your Master, focusing only on displaying that foolish heroism of yours?!"
Lancer weakly shook his head. His natural beauty was twisted by sorrow; this meant that he was also remorseful of this hateful outcome. But now Kayneth did not have the time to notice this at all.
"Master, please allow me... Because Sola-sama and I did not make an official contract, we cannot even feel each other’s presence...”
"It is precisely because of this that you should have been even more careful, even more attentive!"
Kayneth immediately shouted, cutting off his Servant’s explanation.
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>>117539669
Not bad, just not great. I actually forgot about Lancer, he was pretty great.
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>>117539728
Deermud a shit
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>>117539240
Do you have one for Caster too?
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>drawing a long manly neck on Caren
TAKEUCHIIIIIIIII
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>>117539450

A Zweihander can be used as a thrusting weapon as well, I wouldn't be to eager to bet on the short spear user. He has to get a lot closer to thrust. Missing a thrust would still be fatal even if you can pull back fast.

Either way, even the short spear has to have a longer reach than the Zweihander, otherwise you might as well be swinging around a dagger.
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>>117539397
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_IIHlFOEiI
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>>117539728
Indeed—as if to prove Saber’s pronouncement true, in front of the silent abandoned land suddenly appeared a handsome figure holding a lance.
"You were actually able to find this place—it must not have been easy, Saber."
"After investigating, my—partner told me this was your stronghold."
The word ‘Master’ had almost issued forth from her lips, but she ultimately had not said it in the end—this showed the minute wave of emotion of which even Saber herself had not been aware. Of course, in principle it was for the sake of concealing the reality of who her true Master really was. But, the most fundamental reason was still that subconsciously, she did not wish to admit that Kiritsugu was her master.
Lancer’s expression was grave, very different from usual, hesitating for a long time as if choosing words in his mind, then asking the visitor a question.
"Where is my master’s fiancée?"
Saber’s and Irisviel’s expressions both turned troubled; they looked at each other.
"What happened?"
Lancer sighed lengthily; the amount of relief it contained was far greater than disappointment. Originally he had not intended to ask Saber this question. That the one who was his rival would use such underhanded means as kidnapping a hostage—just thinking about it, Lancer found it detestable.
"—Come to think of it, Saber, are you all right? I do not think it was to chat with me that you came here. But didn’t you expend a lot of energy in the battle against Caster?"
Saber, whose entire body was overflowing with a calm fighting spirit, stepped forward. Her slender, small body nevertheless evoked the impression of majesty; this aura, accompanied by the splendidly radiant armor formed of dazzling prana, enveloped her entire body.
"There is still some time in the night; if this great opportunity were to be missed, we do not know in which month of which year we will have another opportunity to face off without a care. What do you think? Lancer."
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>>117538394
Kirei is just a fucking asshole.
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>>117538394

Shit luck.
Shit masters.

Lancers are stronk.

Cu and Diarmuid would dominate if they had decent masters.
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>>117540012
Lancer, whose usually handsome expression had been lost to the worries of his heart, now finally smiled slightly.
"Saber... now the only thing that can bring a cool and refreshing wind to my heart, is this pure will of yours to fight."
In reality, a while ago Saber had also been secretly surprised as to why Lancer had lost his previous majesty. Until she had seen his smile and discovered that her worries were unnecessary. A man with such a smile clearly did not require concern or worry of any kind. That sort of smile was one that only people who had overcome all difficulties and were steadfast in their beliefs could have.
Lancer brandished the red lance as if wishing to chase away all the worries and laments in his heart; the point was directed at Saber.
Saber also released the Barrier of the Wind King; the precious golden sword was revealed amidst the whirlwind. Facing Diarmuid’s Gáe Dearg, using air pressure to conceal the blade of the sword was meaningless.
And the most important thing was, the King of Knights believed that this rival originally from another time but that she had coincidentally met in this world was a Heroic Spirit worthy to accept the light of the sword in which she had accumulated all her glory that shone upon him.
The morning light was lucent, the sky a faint red; all the fighting spirits concentrated between the two Servants was silently and anxiously on the offensive. If one’s senses were especially sensitive, just standing in the middle of the whirlpool of their wills would make one feel pain as if having been hit; perhaps it would even induce a heart attack.
Then—both parties stepped forward at the same time with spirits majestic as the rainbow in the sky, and the clashing sounds were clear as ripping cloth.
The two heroes who had not had a chance to battle these three days, tonight finally had the chance to face off; an intense battle would once again occur.
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>>117539491

A spear doesn't move as much as you seem to think. A spear-wielder or a two-handed swordsman has a very wide grip, between several inches to a few feet between the hands. This gives you a considerable amount of leverage both to resist movement and to bring the weapon back into play.

But to concede to your point, the attacker has a considerable advantage over the defender in this case. The attacker has their blade constantly moving and making feints so when they make a deflection they have momentary surprise on their side. Second, they will strike with the strong of their blade against the weak of their opponents blade which lets them use leverage to turn aside their opponent's blade.
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>>117539982
1:32 just gets fucking stupid
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>>117539526
What happened to his feet?
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>>117540086
>Diarmuid would dominate
Sorry but every single Lancer ever summoned massively outclasses him
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>>117540130
Battle gets dirty sometimes.
The sword fighter managed to bind the spear but didn't manage to stay in sword distance.
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>>117540106
Tonight, though Saber’s swordplay had changed only slightly, but it was indeed lighter in strength than the first time and somewhat held back. Lancer would not have been unable to notice this. This was not due to the expenditure of Saber’s physical strength, but it was that her swordplay itself had changed.
Saber held tightly onto her left thumb, tucked into her palm, in actuality not grasping her sword. The remaining four fingers were lightly wrapped around the sword; in controlling her sword, her left hand was used only for support. When attacking, the strength of her left hand was not used at all.
It had clearly been Saber who had taken the initiative to pronounce her intention of facing off, but she deliberately did not use her left hand, only using the right to hold the sword of gold.
Of course, Lancer understood the reason behind this.
Indeed, Lancer had once used the demonic lance Gáe Buidhe to seal the strength of Saber’s left hand, but in the battle against Caster last night, Lancer had destroyed the cursed yellow lance, proactively giving up the advantageous lead. But Saber’s pride would not settle for accepting Lancer’s concession, and so she intentionally did not use her left hand. This, then, was an action of true chivalry.
But—even that concession that was noble enough to inspire instantaneous respect—Lancer did not welcome this action from his heart.
If the action of casting away Gáe Buidhe had caused Saber unnecessary concern.
From the final result, it meant that Lancer’s actions had dampened the enthusiasm of the showdown between the two. It was a battle in which both parties did not have any regrets, and used all their strength to face off, that Lancer had hoped for. If Saber had held back because she could not put aside her consideration of the fairness of circumstance, Lancer was truly somewhat uneasy about the battle.
"—If you misunderstand, I will be very troubled. Lancer."
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>>117540190
No at that point who had which weapon didn't realy matter anymore it was pure grappel
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>>117538440
I don't get it, did he break his spear?
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>>117540231
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>>117540223
Sure. I wouldn't count that fight towards the overall score sword vs spear, but I would keep it in mind when considering the possibility of binding the spear.
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>>117539908

To be clear, by short spear I don't mean as short as a javelin, I mean a weapon like a naginata or foot lance as opposed to a pike. The length for tip to leading hand is about as long as a sword although sometimes they will slide the leading hand back on a thrust sort of like a pool cue.
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>>117539411
Is there a new Wars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yROOnHQaeY0
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>>117540212
To sever her confusion, she would rather give up her left hand—the pride hidden in her heart, then, was her greatest weapon.
It is this in which the King of Knights is most noble.
Saber now undoubtedly had embraced the resolution of fighting to the death. She also wished to face off with Lancer to her heart’s content under conditions like these—after understanding her intentions, Lancer felt something intense and also freeing, as if having been shocked by electricity.
"Glory shines from within the sword of the King of Knights. It is truly great that I have been able to meet you."
The path that the two anticipated was the same.
If it was a narrow bridge on which it was not possible to give way to each other, the person who took a step first must be respectfully seen off from behind by the other who had fallen back.
Precisely thus—was this without worry, without distraction, in which lives were risked, the exploration and pursuit of lance and sword, a battle of true worth.
The expressions of the two were both extremely anxious and serious, but at the corner of their lips hung the hint of a smile.
"Head knight of the Knights of Fianna, Diarmuid ua Duibhne—attacks!"
"That is well. King of Britain, Arturia Pendragon meets battle——!"
The two closed in once again, white blades clashing, sparks flying; from its midst could be seen the joy of those to whom battle is the meaning for their living, shining brightly.
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>>117540183
Diamund could beat Gilgamesh, confirmed.

>By the way, in the Fourth Holy Grail War, the following strategy would insure the absolute victory of Team Lancer:

>Kayneth must not let his Servant recognize such things as honour on the battle field or knights' pride. He must let Diarmuid realize that the Holy Grail War was merely dirty chores that needed to be done.
>In order to fulfill the previous item, Kayneth must avoid any contact between Diarmuid and Saber with his best effort.
>In combat, Kayneth must prioritize securing an exit. In a battle, missions would be considered accomplished if Diarmuid scored one hit with Gae Buidhe. Repeat this tactic, and exhaust all hostile teams.
>Capitalize on Team Berserker. Team Berserker was a powerful enemy against all other teams, but Lancer had an advantage due to compatibility. It would be optimal to let Berserker destroy the other teams and reach the finale. He could then be defeated at that point.
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>>117540298
> all that fucking buildup
Sometimes i love Urobuchi
Too bad he's annoying most of the time
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2YgGY_OBx8

I disagree with him about the cutting, since I'm pretty sure that war spears are made from especially hardened wood. I don't think you'd be able to make significant damage to that very quickly.
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>>117540298
Kayneth hid in the shadows deep inside the abandoned factory and gazed at the situation of the battle outside. The thoughts in his heart, contrary to the incorrupt preparedness of those knights, were only boiling with anxiety.
Since the victor remained long undecided, he was getting more fidgety by the second with those anxious feelings.
Why couldn’t he win?
Although Saber underestimated Lancer so much, why would Lancer’s spear still be unable to hit Saber?
The answer became very clear upon some careful thinking – that is, Lancer is very weak, far more inferior to Saber.
At this moment, he regretted profoundly for not getting the Heroic Spirit Alexander.
It would never have turned out like this had he made the King of Conquerors his Servant as he had previously planned. Having his Holy Relic stolen at the crucial moment, he had to summon Diarmuid as a substitute in a hurry. As long as a first-rate, authentic Master such as himself is present, those small disadvantages can be amended even if the ranks of the Heroic Spirit were lowered. The parts that the Servant lacks in will be amended by his own talent; Lord El-Melloi did indeed have such a fearless attitude.
However, right now, having lost his Magic Circuits, Kayneth had long lost his previous confidence. In order to survive this war with his sole remaining Command Seal and an inferior Servant, he had to be even more prudent than before.
When there is no definite chance of victory, the right thing to do would be to immediately escape with the Master. Although he hadn’t gotten around asking how Lancer managed to lose Gáe Buidhe, the chances of victory against Saber became even more elusive after her left hand had healed.
Right now wasn’t the time to stick to battles; Lancer should have other duties needing to be prioritized over this. It would be impossible for the current Kayneth to search and rescue Sola by himself. It simply cannot be done without ordering his Servant.
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>>117540407
What makes him pretty shitty compared to all other Lancers is that he doesn't have a "I win" NP and has to rely on attrition.
I mean he's just bad compared to
>Gae Bolg gg lol
>Infinite stakes gg lol
>Vasavi Shakti gg lol
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>>117540298
>If it was a narrow bridge on which it was not possible to give way to each other, the person who took a step first must be respectfully seen off from behind by the other who had fallen back.
looks like the shitty metaphors still made it
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>>117540501
Using strategy isn't bad, it tends to work out far better than those "I have the biggest wang" contest types, since they'll often find out that the other guy has something bigger in store and be taken out fast, especially when fighting Gilgamesh.
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Then arose the champion and battle-warrior and the instrument of Badb's corpse-fold among the men of the earth, Cuchulain son of Sualtaim, and he donned his war-dress of battle and fight and combat. To that wardress of battle and fight and combat which he put about him belonged seven and twenty waxed, board-like, equally close skin-tunics which were girded by cords and swathings and ropes on his fair skin, to the end that his wit and reason might not become deranged when the violence of his nature came over him
.
Over him he put on the outside his battle-girdle of a champion, of tough, tanned, stout leather cut from the forequarters of seven ox-hides of yearlings, so that it reached from the slender parts of his waist to the stout part under his arm-pits. He was used to wear it to keep off spears and points and irons and lances and arrows. For in like manner they would bound back from it as if from stone or rock or horn they rebounded. Then he took his silken, glossy trews with their band of spotted pale-gold against the soft lower parts of his loins. His brown, well-sewn kilt of brown leather from the shoulders of four ox-hides of yearlings with his battle-girdle of cow-skins, he put underneath over the shining silken trews on the outside.
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>>117538804
>Since when were archers knights, they were the guys in the back giving you fire support.
Funny enough, Japanese Samurai ARE Archer Knights. This is why they never developed hand held shields; the use of a bow is important for them as much as peasantry, unlike the West were archery is a separate discipline.
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>>117540407
>Diamund
toplel
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>>117540612
Then the king-warrior seized his battle-arms of battle and fight and combat. This is what belonged to those warlike weapons of battle: He took his eight little swords together with the bright-faced, tusk-hilted straight-sword; he took his eight little spears besides his five-pronged spear, he took his eight little darts together with his javelin with its walrus-tooth ornaments; he took his eight little shafts along with his play-staff; he took his eight shields for feats together with his dark-red bent-shield, whereon a show-boar could lie in its hollow boss, with its very sharp razor-like, keen-cutting, hard iron rim all around it, so that it would cut a hair against the stream because of its sharpness and fineness and keenness. When the young warrior would perform the edge-feat withal, it was the same whether he cut with his shield or his spear or his sword.

Next he put round his head his crested war-helm of battle and fight and combat, whereout was uttered the cry of an hundred young warriors with the long-drawn wail from each of its angles and corners. For this was the way that the fiends, the goblins and the sprites of the glens and the demons of the air screamed before and above and around him, what time he went forth for the shedding of blood of heroes and champions, exulting in the mighty deeds wrought underneath it.

His veil of concealment was thrown over him then, of raiment from Tir Tairngirè ('the Land of Promise') which had been brought to him as a gift by Manannan son of Ler ('the Sea') from the king of Tir na Sorcha ('the Land of Light.')
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>>117538394
archers stats arent much worse than sabers aside from the luck so why is he always wrecked by her
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>>117540653
Then took place the first twisting-fit and rage of the royal hero Cuchulain, so that he made a terrible, many-shaped, wonderful, unheard of thing of himself. His flesh trembled about him like a pole against the torrent or like a bulrush against the stream, every member and every joint and every point and every knuckle of him from crown to ground. He made a mad whirling-feat of his body within his hide. His feet and his shins and his knees slid so that they came behind him. His heels and his calves and his hams shifted so that they passed to the front. The muscles of his calves moved so that they came to the front of his shins, so that each huge knot was the size of a soldier's balled fist. He stretched the sinews of his head so that they stood out on the nape of his neck, hill-like lumps, huge, incalculable, vast, immeasurable and as large as the head of a month-old child.

He next made a ruddy bowl of his face and his countenance. He gulped down one eye into his head so that it would be hard work if a wild crane succeeded in drawing it out on to the middle of his cheek from the rear of his skull. Its mate sprang forth till it came out on his cheek. His mouth was distorted monstrously. He drew the cheek from the jaw-bone so that the interior of his throat was to be seen. His lungs and his lights stood out so that they fluttered in his mouth and his gullet. He struck a mad lion's blow with the upper jaw on its fellow so that as large as a wether's fleece of a three year old was each red, fiery flake which his teeth forced into his mouth from his gullet.
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>>117540676
Bad luck.
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>>117540464

>Diamurid weaker than Arthuria
>Absolutely floors her the first time they meet, and is fighting on even footing with her even after he willingly destroyed his weapon and his masters are no longer able to supply him with sufficient mana

kek
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>>117540690
Luck as a stat makes me mad.
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>>117540643
>Caster couldn't take on Saber 1vs1.

Very funny.
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>>117540683
There was heard the loud clap of his heart against his breast like the yelp of a howling bloodhound or like a lion going among bears. There were seen the torches of the Badb, and the rain clouds of poison, and the sparks of glowing-red fire, blazing and flashing in hazes and mists over his head with the seething of the truly wild wrath that rose up above him. His hair bristled all over his head like branches of a redthorn thrust into a gap in a great hedge. Had a king's apple-tree laden with royal fruit been shaken around him, scarce an apple of them all would have passed over him to the ground, but rather would an apple have stayed stuck on each single hair there, for the twisting of the anger which met it as it rose from his hair above him.

The Lon Laith ('Champion's Light') stood out of his forehead, so that it was as long and as thick as a warrior's whetstone. As high, as thick, as strong, as steady, as long as the sail-tree of some huge prime ship was the straight spout of dark blood which arose right on high from the very ridge-pole of his crown, so that a black fog of witchery was made thereof like to the smoke from a king's hostel what time the king comes to be ministered to at nightfall of a winter's day.

When now this contortion had been completed in Cuchulain, then it was that the hero of valour sprang into his scythed war-chariot, with its iron sickles, its thin blades, its hooks and its hard spikes, with its hero's fore-prongs, with its opening fixtures, with its stinging nails that were fastened to the poles and thongs and bows and lines of the chariot.
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>>117540712
In RPG terms, it's reversely proportional to how much you trust a player's dice.

I knew somebody who never rolled anything below 15.
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>>117540722
EXCALIBAAAAAH
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>>117540729
It was then he delivered over his chariot the thunder-feat of a hundred and the thunder-feat of two hundred and the thunder-feat of three hundred and the thunder-feat of four hundred, and he ceased at the thunder-feat of five hundred. For he did not deem it too much that such a great number should fall by his hand at his first onset and first battle-assault on four of the five grand provinces of Erin. In such wise fared he forth for to seek his foes, and he drove his chariot in a wide circuit round about the hosts of the four grand provinces of Erin. And he led his chariot a heavy way.

The chariot's iron wheels sank into the ground so that the earth dug up by the iron wheels might have served for a dûn and a fortress, so did the chariot's iron wheels cut into the ground. For in like manner the clods and boulders and rocks and the clumps and the shingle of the earth arose up outside on a height with the iron wheels. It was for this cause he made this circling hedge of the Badb round about the hosts of four of the five grand provinces of Erin, that they might not escape him nor get away before he would come on them to press a reprisal for the boys. And he went into the midst of the ranks and mowed down huge walls of the corpses of his foes and enemies and opponents in a great circle round about the host.

And he made the onslaught of a foe amongst foes upon them, so that they fell sole to sole, neck to neck, such was the closeness of their bodies. Thrice again in this manner he circled them round, so that he left them in beds of six in a great ring around them, even the soles of three to the backs of three men in a circle around the camp. Hence Sessrech Bresligè ('Great sixfold Slaughter') is the name of this event on the Tain, and it is one of the three unreckonable events of the Tain, which were, to wit, Sessrech Bresligè, Immsligè Glennamnach and the battle of Garech and Ilgarech; only that here, hound and horse and man were one to him.
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>>117540695
Excalibur activation oneshots Diarmuid, no contest.
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>>117540768
Ten and six-score kings, leaders and men of the land, Cuchulain laid low in the great slaughter on the Plain of Murthemne, besides a countless horde of dogs and horses and women and boys and children and common folk; for there escaped not a third man of the men of Erin without a lump or without having half his skull or an eye hurt, or without an enduring mark for the course of his life.

Early the next morning Cuchulain came to observe the host and to display his comely, beautiful form to the matrons and dames and girls and maidens and poets and men of art, for he did not consider it an honour nor becoming, the wild, proud shape of magic which had been manifested to them the night before. It was for that then that he came to exhibit his comely, beautiful form on that day.

Truly fair was the youth that came there to display his form to the hosts, Cuchulain, to wit son of Sualtaim. Three heads of hair he wore; brown at the skin, blood-red in the middle, a golden-yellow crown what thatched it. Beautiful was the arrangement of the hair, with three coils of hair wound round the nape of his neck, so that like to a strand of thread of gold was each thread-like, loose-flowing, deep-golden, magnificent, long-tressed, splendid, beauteous-hued hair as it fell down over his shoulders. A hundred bright-purple windings of gold-flaming red gold at his neck.
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>>117540676
Lancer has better stats than saber aside from luck yet she wrecks him just because luck is the only thing that counters gaebolg. On top of that her luck is only B so anyone with A luck must be a true god in the universe.
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>>117540464
Fretting, Kayneth scratched his head repetitively. How great would it be if he could use a Command Seal right now! Why did he just have to have only one Command Seal by his hand? It was such a pity for Sola to take away two Command Seals. If only she was able to trust Kayneth…
Right then, Kayneth’s neck suddenly felt an unnatural flow of air.
A piece of paper fluttered down beside him. It was an extremely ordinary piece of notepaper, but Kayneth fixed his eyes on the few concise words on it with a deadly gaze.

“– If you don’t want your beloved one to die, then quietly look behind you –”

Stunned, Kayneth’s eyes widened, and he moved the wheels of the wheelchair to change the direction his body was facing. Deep inside the pitch-black abandoned factory, the light coming in through a skylight illuminated one single place like a spotlight.
The outlines of woman, lying on the floor as if deep asleep, emerged out of the dim and cold light.
Kayneth would never mistake those features no matter how dim the light is or how far the distance becomes.
Although the pain and haggardness on Sola’s steel-grey face showed that something had evidently occurred, the strand of hair beside her mouth quivered as if blown by a breeze. That was the proof of her breathing. She was still alive.
Kayneth forgot the warning on the paper and almost cried out despite himself. Then, like a wraith emerging out of the darkness, a human figure stepped into the weak light and showed himself.
An old coat, those untidy hair and listless whiskers, and only those pair of eyes, different from the gloomy countenance, fierily emitted a razor-sharp light – that unforgettable man, the only one who had cruelly torn apart all the Magic Circuits in Kayneth’s body, that hateful flunky of the Einsberns.
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>>117540722
The only reason Saber doesn't wreck him in the forest is because she couldn't use Excalibur. Gilles is a terrible match up for anyone with a anti army NP.
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>>117540824
You realy don't know how luck works.
See it like this.
You have to roll a 100 on a d100.
The more luck you have the more dice you are allowed to use.
It is still only a chance and Saber "lucked" out
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>>117540824
Real assassin has equal stats to saber in everything but luck yet he is no match to her in terms of combat.
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>>117540779

Why is Diarmuid letting her charge it up and not using his anti-magic spear against it exactly?
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>>117540870
The joke is that Nasu just uses personal preference over these bullshit powerlevels to decide fights since most of the servants have equal stats.
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>>117540840
He had probably transported the unconscious Sola in quietly from the back door during the gap formed while Saber and Lancer concentrated in fighting each other. The barrel of the submachine gun in the man’s hand aimed steadily at Sola’s forehead.
“It just has to be… that bastard…”
Kayneth had experience that viper-like cruelty and seamless prudence first-hand. Compared to anger and hatred – a deep despair that far surpassed all other emotions made him hang his head powerlessly.
It really was the worse situation he could think of. The woman he loves was captured by the most difficult enemy that he didn’t even want to imagine.
However, just before he sank into a panic, the voice of reason stopped Kayneth.
There must be some purpose for that man to deliberately show himself and let Kayneth confirm Sola’s wellbeing.

Kayneth turned his head and cast a glance at Lancer, who was fighting with all he had in the abandoned empty area. Judging from the two Servants’ position in battle, Sola’s location was a dead spot that they can’t see. The two of them were both bent on dealing with the strong enemy in front of them, completely ignorant to this new invader.
Kayneth couldn’t guess what the man wanted, so he silently inclined his head, showing his intention of obeying the other’s wish.
The man took a roll of vellum out of his coat and cast it into the air after casually opening it. Although the weight of vellum cannot be compared to the notepaper beforehand, simple manipulations of air was enough to make it fly with the wind. Like a jellyfish, the vellum floated across space slowly and leisurely, and landed on Kayneth’s knees.
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>>117538394
Shit masters.
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>>117540902
>implying stats matter at all.
Fate would have been better without them.
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>>117540934
i agree
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Deermud deserved more fight scenes instead of muh chivalry and muh saber
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>>117540969
i never read fate/zero did he really stab himself like that?
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>>117540407
That implies that he would be able to land a blow with the Gae Buidhe before he suffered a major injury himself. I'm not sure he would be able to manage this against Gil. Against Rider, it wouldn't prevent him from using his NP, and I doubt Diarmuid could deal with that one. He's at a disadvantage against the Assassins as well, because a blow to one Assassin doesn't affect the other 99. We saw his fight with Saber, so I don't really need to go into detail there. He could handle Caster most likely as long as he doesn't summon Cthulhu.
Basically >>117540582 is wrong, it's true that strategy can trump somebody in a wang contest, but there reaches a point that it's just too enormous to deal with.
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>>117540969
Deermud needed to be summoned as Saber instead of Lancer. He'd still lose to Excaliblast though.
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>>117541021

No, you should watch or read the source material, its a very good scene and you shouldn't spoil it for yourself.
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>>117540695
>floors her
His best sure kill attack fails to stop her and he suffers counter damage from her as well. He was also forced to use both of his NP's. Diarmuid is weaker. Their second fight only proves that as Kayneth comments.
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>>117540969

He was way too OP with his anti-healing lancer bullshit.
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>>117540969
Diarmuid deserved much worse than what he got. Shit ideology, shit life, shit personality and shit NP.
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>>117541096
>Shit ideology
What do you mean?
>shit life
women are the source of all evil in irish mythology
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>Saber considered a god tier king and fighter for the servant system
>gets ass handed to her by some middle aged history teacher whose only boost was strengthening his fists a bit
how can nobody else beat her?
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>>117541096
Dont cut yourself on all that edge, anon
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>>117541036
You're arguing with a direct Nasu quote, that says it's possible and can happen. Not only that but he says it a second time in his bio entry.

>His basic parameters are not particularly high, but he excels at using battle tactics designed to trip up enemies stronger than himself. In particular, he is the natural enemy of those Heroic Spirits which rely on the powers of their Noble Phantasms to fight. Depending on his strategy, it's even possible that he could have won the entire Fourth Holy Grail War

There's a point when you're flat out saying the author of the series doesn't know shit is wrong, and that's this point right now. Going on about how he has no chance, but Nasu says this strategy would for sure work.

The problem is that sticking to this strategy is basically impossible; Diamund will interact with Saber and find his HONOR, and Kayneth has too much pride to even try step one in the first palce.
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>>117541129

laser-shooting sword, nigga
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>>117541129
history teacher was bare handed also
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>>117541129
Pretty much everyone knows about Excalibur and King Arthur. Fame boost, unless you get smacked by History.
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>>117541129

Well, the game answers this question entirely. If you'd actually bothered to read it you would know.
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>>117541129
You realize this same history teacher also killed Medusa right?
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>>117541071

His NPs are passive systems though. It's not a situation where he's only able to use them once or twice, or that their potency diminishes.

And I'm pretty sure that if he can cripple Saber's left arm permanently when they are on entirely equal footing, the rest of the fight would have only gone in his favor.
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>>117541194
Not that hard
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>>117541129
People beat her all the fucking time, especially in UBW.
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>>117541190
allegedly the power boost from recognition was not "much" as toshaka put it
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>mfw FSN Lancer >>>>> FZ Lancer
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>>117541232
Yes because Japan a shit.
It even gimps Cu more than anyone else
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>>117541226
memory is fuzzy but i dont remember her ever losing in UBW except for the history teacher. I remember her getting wrecked by real assassin in HF though.
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>>117541128
>What do you mean?
Muh honor, muh loyalty even tho i am a backstabing and NTRing piece of crap.

>women are the source of all evil in irish mythology
You would have to be dropped on your head to not see what was gonna happen. Pussy whipped betamax has the gall to go on about honor.
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>>117541247
It's not even a contest.
>His arms had not been left near him, except his chariot only. And he took his chariot on his back, and he set out to attack the men of Erin, and he smote them with the chariot
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Why do I feel like the only reason people shit on Diarmuid is because he gets close to Saber and shipped by Nasu and Gen (and Taiga) to the point that there's an alternate universe where Arturia chases after him?
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>>117541302
>Muh honor, muh loyalty
Nothing wrong with that
>even tho i am a backstabing and NTRing piece of crap.
that's personality though

>You would have to be dropped on your head to not see what was gonna happen. Pussy whipped betamax has the gall to go on about honor.
Grainne a shit


Grainne administered drugs into the wine of the guests save for Oisín, Oscar, Diarmuid, Caílte and Diorruing. Grainne approached Oisín, however he refused her request, then she approached Diarmuid. Diarmuid also objected to her advances because Fionn was a friend and his leader. Grainne imposed a geis upon Diarmuid that he must follow and run away with her. His friends were saddened by this, because they knew that Diarmuid would die because the hero had come between Fionn and Grainne. Diarmuid left the palace, knowing that despite being a friend and follower of Fionn, his leader would still hunt him down for the betrayal.
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>>117541302
>backstabbing
What?
>NTR
Nigger he cant help it. He was literally fucking cursed with NTR.
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>>117541316
>killing people with chariots
How light was that chariot?
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>>117541215
The point of him having to use both his NP's is that he had to pull out all his best tricks to so much as injure her, and that was an injury she essentially let him have since she didn't know about Gae Buhide. She fights with the same handicap the second time and it's noted she's the better fighter.
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>>117541386
>(and Taiga)
I always knew Taiga was best Fate
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>>117541215

Saber fights with a handicap in their 2nd fight and is noted by both Kayneth and Diamuid to be the better fighter, even with the handicap.
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>>117541393
How the hell to you impose a geis? Is that like an oath or a promise or some shit?
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>>117541300
She's just all around made to look pretty incompetent in the route. Her only real win is against Fake Assassin.
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>>117541441
You are talking about irish Herakles.
>He went into the wood at that place and sprang out of his chariot, and he lopped off a four-pronged fork, root and top, with a single stroke of his sword. He pointed and charred it and put a writing in ogam on its side, and he gave it a long throw from the hinder part of his chariot with the tip of a single hand, in such wise that two-thirds of it sank into the ground and only one-third was above it in the mid part of the stream, so that no chariot could go thereby on this side or that.
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>>117541597
>this dude loses in every route
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>>117541021
Oh god that would be so fucking hilarious
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>>117541649
It's not even funny how much Nasu nerved him
>Now, many and divers were the magic virtues that were in Cuchulain that were in no one else in his day. Excellence of form, excellence of shape, excellence of build, excellence in swimming, excellence in horsemanship, excellence in chess and in draughts, excellence in battle, excellence in contest, excellence in single combat, excellence in reckoning, excellence in speech, excellence in counsel, excellence in bearing, excellence in laying waste and in plundering from the neighbouring border.
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Some japanese fucker better upload Saber vs Archer in the bridge right away.
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>>117541597
Sasuga Ransaa
As expected of the Servant who delayed Gilgamesh for 12 hours half-dead.
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>>117541698
*nerfed
Fuck me
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Gilgamesh should have long hair.

I don't care about that whole arian, demon eyes thing going on, but he should have long hair. It's disrespectful.
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>>117539197
>>117539238
I'm dying
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>>117541442

The second time they fought Lancer was only able to use one spear. Considering he was by default a dual wielder this is a not insignificant handicap. Compounding this his master had his magic circuits nuked, his other supplier is maimed and unconscious, so he is presumably no longer receiving optimal amounts of mana. And during all this Saber does not land a hit on him.
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>>117541765
nobody wants a king that looks like a faggot
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>>117541649

You also have to remember that Herakles original flavor also loses in every route.
You know, the guy who wrestled gods to the ground, sacked cities by his fucking self, was politely asked by the gods to leave the Argo because he was making their journey too easy, held up the sky, fought his way into and out of the underworld itself twice, etc. etc.
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>>117539197
>>117541769
Not using the superior version
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>>117541800
did he lose because he was underrepresented by Nasu or did he lose because ilya is a shit master who doesn't allow him to use common sense
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>>117540934
Aren't stats only supposed to be the "representation" of a person's strength?
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>>117541923
They get completly ignored though.
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>>117541923
doesn't represent much when the difference between an A str and a D str is not noticeable because "reasons"
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>>117541800
Remember that he was summoned as Berserker and only has his instinct and battle techniques to go for him. If he was summoned as Archer they would have won the second he was summoned. The Einzberns were retarded.
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>>117540824
Rank B Luck combined with Rank A Instinct (which is kind of funny that in Zero, Saber had Rank D Luck).
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>>117541800
>>117541649
If you actualy read the myths Saberwanking just gets ridiculous.
Yes I've read Le Morte d'Arthur
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>>117541895

Illya is a pretty great master. She knows the best way to use Berserker is just launch him at the enemy.
In Fate: loses due to plothax. (Caliburn miracle seven deaths at once because reasons)
In UBW: loses due to plothax. (Why was Gilgamesh there, anyway? He could've just waited until the vessel was full to claim the grail. Like he did in Fate.)
In HF: loses due to plothax. (Shadow, nuff said)
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>>117541923
If that were actually the case, Hercules would be one shotting all the other servants who tried to directly block his blows. AKA Saber a shit.
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>>117542007
Instinct is dumb if she can see futures then why did she get raped by history teacher and berserker since she should just see it and avoid it. It only pops up as ultimate precog when she needs it to win.
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>>117542049
Gilgamesh is arguably the least plothax.
Also he's there because he doesn't want a "proper" grail but just a dog to kill humans with
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>>117542049
Well let's see Lancer's deaths
Fate: Gil + Kotomine's plot command spell
UBW: Kotomine's command spell
HF: Shadow and Kotomine's command spell
Why is Kotomine such a shit?
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>>117542090
gil is just there to make shirou look good cause hes always underestimates him and loses
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Why is Gil such a bitter asshole?

I don't get the bitter asshole vibe when I read the Epic, or is one of the "Nasu takes liberties with the source material" thing?
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>>117542088
Instinct is more or less a "gut" feeling (not sure). It seems that it only kicks in when something "fatal"/killing is supposed to happen (both Gae Bolg and Tsubame Geashi were fatal/killing moves that would've killed Saber if she didn't sensed it). Not sure if that's the exact reason
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>>117542266
Nasu never read the epic.
The maximum he read was the japanese wikipedia page
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>>117542267
The wiki claims it allows her to see weapon trajectories before they are thrown. There were a few lines in HF that i forgot to screenshot that kind of back that up when she is fighting assassin.
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Being Lancer is suffering
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>>117542267
Nigga every attack ever is a lethal attack. Every Fake Assassin attack is aimed at a vital point same with Lancher, every Hercules attack is powerful enough to be lethal if you take it head on.

So saying "it kicks in when a lethal attack is coming" means shit all.
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>>117541698
>>117541649
Kotomine did force him to hold back.
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>>117542326
It's the ultimate PLOT-ability.
It works however Nasu wants at the moment
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>>117540643
How would Assassin 1v1 lancer or berseker.
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>>117542364
>every attack ever is a lethal attack
Clearly not Kuzuki's, since he fails to kill her.
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>>117542373
yeah that's what it boils down to "who does Nasu want to win right now?"
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>>117542267
Here's a better answer that takes the actual VN into account: Kuzuki has an unique fighting style that Saber has problems reading because it was designed to specifically catch people off guard.
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>>117542267
she gets gut feelings from everything its just an asspull a bility used when she HAS to win against seemingly impossible shit
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Why do Lancer and Archer always get the best servants?
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>>117542459
Do you have a specific asspull in mind or are you just bitching about the ability in general?
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>>117542398
The way things were going, I don't think that Kazuki was trying to kill Saber. The way that Caster was close to her, I believe that they were trying to "obtain" Saber for the purpose of killing Berserker (or for something else).
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>>117542429
Normal fighting styles are designed to kill people because while you are busy making a clown of yourself to confuse me I'll be killing you.
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>>117542482
kind of wish Emiya archer beat sabe in the UBW realm just to show her how strong he'd become, but nope he just has to pick on some teenager version of himself and lose
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>>117542516
Well it's not like he has another choice, trickery like that is the only way he could possibly match Servants.
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>>117542514
>Kuzuki
>being able to not kill people
Come on
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>>117542482
Because Archer is the "Every broken character that doesn't mainly use a bow" class.

Lancers are good as far as powerlevels go, not broken which means they are shit. Pretty cool bros tho.
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>>117538394
>yet he is always the bottom bitch
Not really? Practically every Servant ever meets some horrible fate by the end of the story, it's just the nature of the war.
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>>117542574
>not broken
Cu, Vlad and Karna say otherwise
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>>117540255
Can King Crimson stop Gay Bulge?
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>>117542516
This style is also designed to kill people, in particular experts who know most forms of fighting and thus expect him to act one way... until he doesn't and he gets the upper hand.
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>>117542501
Helped beat TG didnt help beat a guy punching her to near death. Luckily Nasu decided he'd has caster fuck up the killing blow.
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>>117540905
It is an enforced curse that forcibly uses the functions of one’s own Magic Crests upon oneself. Theoretically, it has a power that cannot be erased by any method. Even if the caster lost his life, the Magic Crests would bind the soul of the dead man and would not pass down the generations.
Although it wasn’t something Kayneth often saw, it was indeed proper in the way it was written, with no loopholes. The signature made with the blood of the declarer himself was evidently pulsing with prana, showing that the spell was already established and was currently working.
That is to say – when the conditions recorded in the bottom half of the declaration is fulfilled, that man – Emiya Kiritsugu will give up a part of his free will, and the contract will be confirmed as an unbreakable curse.
Holding the vellum with shaking hands, Kayneth read the conditions to establish the contract over and over. As if hoping the contents would change the next time he reads it, he stubbornly contemplated those words repeatedly. He bent his entire will to consider if the contents left any gaps that may form contradictions.
However, different from Kayneth’s wavering thoughts, the most logical part of his heart had already accepted his own yielding. The possibility that his beloved woman and himself may return to their homeland alive – at this moment, isn’t that his greatest wish?
If he hesitated a few more moments, Emiya Kiritsugu would probably pull the trigger. After the first bullet took away Sola’s life, the barrel would definitely point at Kayneth himself. There were no choices for him. Whether to lose everything or to regard that declaration as his last hope of life… that was the only difference.
With a dim and blank look as if he was an empty shell, he looked at the final Command Seal on his right hand and then gave the final unbreakable command as Lancer’s Master.
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>>117542574
Robin Hood, Atlanta and Chiron aren't broken as fuck.
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>>117542614
Only if it's used before Cu initiates his attack. Once it's activated King Crimson can delete whatever he want, but the strike will always hit.
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>>117542642
In the VN she only used Instinct to defeat Tsubame Gaeshi after she'd already seen it be used once, which is entirely reasonable. Not to mention the sword was bent. Ufotable just wanted to be flashy and have it work the first time.
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>>117542693
>Chiron
>not broken as fuck
Did you even read Apocrypha?
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>>117542703
the instinct allowed her to see the bend in the blade which is an asspull cause instinct only kicks in when the story needs her to survive.
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>>117542600
Cu is good, but if you think Gay Bulge is broken then you are dead wrong. Killing you 7 times in row is shit compared to Gil or God Hand or Medusa's NP or EXCALIBAAARR or UBW, even Tsubame Gaishi maybe since you can't escape that but if your Luck is high enough you can escape the Bulge
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>>117542748
What? How is that an asspull? She knew the blade was bent because she saw it bend.
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>>117542761
You are fucking retarded.
Killing you multiple times is completly useless against anyone but berserker.
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>>117542777
No the VN states as the ability is going through her instinct sees the slight opening from the bend. She had no knowledge the bend would fuck up the ability before it was used.
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>>117542761
>but if you think Gay Bulge is broken then you are dead wrong
What the fuck am I reading?
>>
>>117542429
Now that you've mentioned it, I do remember a line stating "the same move/trick won't work on Saber twice" (or something along those lines). Also, I remember something saying that Caster enchanted/enhance Kazuki's hands (or is there something missing). Those it enhanced Kazuki's strength, or both strength and speed (I do remember that Kazuki's punches didn't affect Archer after Caster was killed)?
>>
>>117541508

It's a curse, dude.

I need to catch up on my Irish mythology, but basically a geis is a "You are going to add this rule to your entire life, and if you break if, GET FUCKED."

Cu Chulainn got fucked over because he broke one of his Geass

Diarmuid got fucked over because his geass involved running away with a woman that wasn't his.

In fact, Diarmuid got fucked over by his Beauty Mark first, too. She wouldn't have placed the geass if it didn't make her wet beforehand
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File: 19-UBW16-05-038[1].jpg (116 KB, 800x600) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
19-UBW16-05-038[1].jpg
116 KB, 800x600
>>117542815
I don't see how that's an asspull, that's pretty much exactly how Instinct should work given that it's actually stated to be precognition. Again, it only worked because she had seen Tsubame Gaeshi used once before.
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