If he doesn't get in the robot, the world will explode.
If he does get in the robot, the world explodes anyway.
What contrived reason will Wille have for not killing him the second they pick them up?
Well that was one of the few things that were cool in 2.0, but then 3.0 shinji looks like he lost all of that will even before finding out that Rei 2 wasn't alive anymore and that Rei Q a shit.
So Anon what do you think if Rei Q take the SDAT at the end of 3.33.
If she did that, that does not mean it than She is Gonna be the next person who is gonna take care of Shinji happiness.
It's not that he had lost his will, but that he was confused as fuck. No one explained shit to him, everyone was acting weird towards him, they drop the bomb of 14 years having passed and that Rei is dead, and he still has the balls to go away with Rei Q and say fuck the world even though he had a bomb on his neck. Everything feeling wrong with this Rei mixed with the eternal confusion of not knowing what the fuck happened what ended up discouraging him.
Rei II is in the SDAT.
She and Rei Q are going to strike up an awkward relationship whereby the intelligent Rei inside the tape player must try to guide the retarded one through the story to a good end with Shinji. Rei II's instructions are relayed through headphones and the track number will reach into the hundreds.
I don't think Rei Q will interact with him that much.
She will probably have her own weird existential crisis.
Shinji will probably overcome his shit himself.
And then save Asuka because she and Mari has some kind of weird fetish for that or something.
Many people treat "causality" as a modern buzzword synonymous with "decisions". However, other people draw a distinction between a "component"—does not include a closer; a neo entity (such as the uncle)—a controlled mind system, including both structuralism and functionalism components.
Humanism focused on fundamentally and uniquely human issues, such as individual free will, personal growth, self-actualization, self-identity, death, aloneness, freedom, and meaning to the scientific study of the behavior and mental processes of non-human animals, especially as these relate to the phylogenetic. The humanistic approach was distinguished by its emphasis on subjective meaning, rejection of determinism, and concern for positive growth rather than pathology.
"The eventual creation and annihilation of pairs that may occur now and then is no creation or annihilation, but only a change of direction, from past to future, or from future to past."
Furthermore, the ability to affect the past suggests that causes could be negated by their own effects.
>What contrived reason will Wille have for not killing him the second they pick them up
Realize that they're being awful human beings to him, and thus caused him to run off and get in the robot in the first place.
Evangelion 13 pilots for the new pachinko game.
Its probably gonna take a bit until they take him in.
By that time Rei will have explained to Asuka that Shinji was really not working with Gendo and actually tried to save the world.
Maybe even some explanation on how Rei heard that Gendo had planned both impacts.
If not they should straight up shoot him on sight after the retarded shit he pulled in the last movie.
Kawo got him in the robot. They just treated him like they thought he deserved too. Which he unfortunately proved right by starting another impact when everyone told him to stop.
Well I'm sure Asuka would probably do that with out thinking twice, since she doesn't seem to care about anything but him atm, but the conversation of her and Shinji screaming at each other is probably recorded in the EVA.
Probably some contrived, he's been cursed/blessed by the Evangelion, we need him for bargaining nonsense.
Regardless the movies out so far do not treat decisions or human issues in the light of upheaved causality.
So it's rather pointless to point out what you do. The answer so far is that it's a contrived mess which exists to force a conclusion from a narrative standpoint, more than anything a conclusion based on the perversions of the writers and director.
The problem is that Rebuild has no time for anyone that isn't Shinji to talk, specially in Q. For you to see the situation, After Shinji, Mari is the character which talked the most with Asuka and Rei and yet its almost fucking nothing
>The problem is that Rebuild has no time for anyone that isn't Shinji to talk
No. Stop telling that to yourself. Four movies are more than enough time for people to talk.
People did talk in 1.0 and 2.0. 3.0 chose not to do that.
Did you read the second half of my post? I do blame Q's writing for that crap. However the other two movies were also crap in that aspect if compared to the average episode of the show
I think it more had to do with pacing then no time.
Karl hogged the screen.
Mari and Asuka need at least one or two moments that have nothing to do with combat, or Mari ship teasing her with Shinji.
Mari is probably gonna end up doing some weird shit and die, so at least give her something.
There was plenty of time for them to talk and not seem retarded. 1.0 does it, 2.0 does it, so why not 3.0 as well?
The problem is that Rebuild 3.33 is meant to play waifu games. You can't have the characters act sane and not retarded if you're going to do that. You need to have the waifus being shat on be removed or shat on, and you need peripheral waifus to act retarded for the focus waifu to look good.
Because if it did try to act sane, 3.33 wouldn't be possible.
>I think 3.33 should have happened.
It did happen. You got your wish.
Here's the idea, it shouldn't have happened. You can't execute 3.33 better wihtout making it an entirely different movie that is by the end of the day, not 3.33.
>Did you read the second half of my post? I do blame Q's writing for that crap.
Q's writing is what Q is. Q had time, it didn't spend it. What you call shit writing is necessary for Q to at all exist.
Q went the wrong way when it decided to pander to fujoshi and twist the canon to benefit Anno's favorite characters. There's no possible way to do that except make the characters retarded and introduce insane concepts like the timeskip and curse of EVA, or just write out characters like Rei.
It's all style, no substance.
Substance can be built up over time, and with the right approach even old silly stylish stuff can be mined for substance. That's how NGE works. The first half, taken on it's own, is just flashy stuff and worldbuilding. After the second half, the constructive and deconstructive process begins, which uses the material from the first half.
Note that I don't use "deconstructive" as TVTropes would use deconstruction. NGE goes into the character's heads, picks them apart and puts them together again, and that creates an amazing anrrative.
I'm damned sure from a critical perspective, that even Rebuild could be a worthy addition to the franchise unlike the numerous other fanservice spinoffs, unfortunately 3.0 killed that.
Just finished watching the series for the first time
So was the ending implying Shinji dealt with his shit cause of the Instrumentality or did he actually manage to separate himself from it?
Shit you must get this all the time and I feel like such a dumb ass for not watching this ages ago
3.33 felt like a setup episode.
4.0 will probably be more like 1 and 2, and be pretty straight forward, and give definitive answers instead of being 2deep4u.
But it is Anno, so who knows.
They are awful human beings to him but that doesn't make an argument for keeping him alive, they could have killed him the instant they found him,
what's the purpose of keeping a living doomsday device when you want to prevent the doomsday?
former Gainax director comments on Sadamoto's manga end
Any moon speaker could give us a light on this? He probably comments the whole Rebuild thing
>What contrived reason will Wille have for not killing him the second they pick them up?
He's an impact trigger. Which means he can either destroy the world or restore it.
The problem with Shinji is that he keeps getting hysterical when he triggers these impacts and doesn't think things through. Though 3.0's fourth impact wasn't entirely initiated by him, rather he was just a secondary trigger to Kaworu while Seele stole their wish from underneath them.
He managed to deal with his shit during Instrumentality.
Things get a lot clearer after you watched EoE and ... they get more complicated.
Best girl wins =) all questions are answered.
Don't get me wrong, it was shit, and nothing happened, other then everyone shitting on Shinji.
I'm just calling it a setup because that's all it did, nothing else happened in the movie. It put people on their path for the final. It was a terrible decision to waste an entire movie on that, but shit happened, and here we are.
>He managed to deal with his shit during Instrumentality.
As in separate himself from it because of his newfound identity? Or did he just become happy and "one" with everything like it was implied the Instrumentalitys point was?
Yeah Imma go watch End of Evangelion right away then.
He's damned if he does, damned if it doesn't. I was cheering for him (like everyone else was in 3.0, including Misato) when he got into the Eva of his own choice in order to save someone and not because people were trying to make him or to please his idiot father. Of course, it was a letdown when that wound up making things worse.
As for Wille, I couldn't imagine the bullshit reason they will have for not killing him OR for keeping him alive. I'm certain that Anno will come up with some sort of asspull, but what I want from the members of Wille is a goddamned apology to Shinji. I know that is never going to happen but I think they owe it to him. It probably won't be enough but they really did treat him like shit the first time for something he was completely unaware of.
I don't expect 4.0 to be any good anyway.
Pretty much this, which again, I don't think is ever going to happen in a way that is satisfying.
>what's the purpose of keeping a living doomsday device when you want to prevent the doomsday.
And now you realize that Annos' writing is fucking idiotic. Anyone with sense in a real or fictional world would fucking kill Shinji outright.
It was weird cause he basically found that happiness comes from within one self, which would suggest he actually separated himself from the Instrumentality but then there was the whole clapping scene which gave me the impression that it was just the Instrumentality making him feel whole and happy
Nah, it's just a sign that they don't care as much anymore and that they want to work on new things. They're pretty much only doing this to fund their new studio and that's it.
>"just a setup episode"
Is this your first movie series m8?
>trying to be clever
Nigger, more happened in ESB than the entirety of Rebuild.
ESB is a setup-episode insofar the story does not end and there's a next movie.
Wonder what 3.0+1.0's equivalent of ewoks will be?
>more happened in ESB than the entirety of Rebuild.
The only thing that happened in ESB is that Luke found out that Vader is his father, the rest of the movie is a whole lot of nothing
Rewatch Rebuild. They do care, a lot, which is why they do what they do. It's evident, and if you can't see the effort put into making this then you're just not qualified to comment on the movie series at all.
Do you know how you recognize a complete pleb and an absolute moron when discussing film?
They compare any second-to-last movie in a series with ESB to deflect criticism. ESB is so far ahead of garbage like 3.0 anyway that the comparison in itself is insulting.
>The only thing that happened in ESB is that Luke found out that Vader is his father, the rest of the movie is a whole lot of nothing
This is why 3.0fags are disgusting. So much of a distorted view to justify one bad movie. I suppose the only thing that happened in A New Hope was the death star being blown up, right?
The only thing that ever happened in 2.0 was the impact at the end too.
I would have to re-watch to give a proper answer but I think its difficult to tell.
I would say that because the characters including Shinji all find a reason to exist themselves they actually leave Instrumentality as that melts all into one single entity.
Well its his world so he can thank himself for escaping it.
Asuka wins Shinji like always
It fails every time, just like it did now. It also proves how weak arguments these plebs have because they have to give up on critiquing the subject matter at hand and actually compare to another movie.
Which by the way, is the wrong thing to compare to in this case if you want to do Star Wars.
Here you go, if you want to compare 3.33 with any Star Wars movie.
The comparison does nothing but show that you forfeit the entire argument. ESB is far more than a setup, it's a direct continuation of the prequel that delves deeper into the mythos rather than obfuscating it like 3.33 does.
3.33 is the movie equivalent of a non-sequiteur, and only by virtue of being the second to last movie it can ever be called "set up".
>Wonder what 3.0+1.0's equivalent of ewoks will be?
The failures of infinity?
Either they'll go full MPE mode and start destroying the Wunder and Mari and Asuka's dual-eva or they actually help out a little since they're essentially peoples' souls trapped within eva bodies.
>They do care, a lot, which is why they do what they do.
Maybe Anno since he's obviously planned most of Rebuild from the start. Not sure about people like Tsurumaki though.
As bad as 3.33 is, TPM is inhumanly bad, it is completely terrible on all levels, and not a single amount of enjoyment can be had from it.
3.33 is just regular old bad movie with pacing problems, and an idiot plot.
>they have to give up on critiquing the subject matter at hand and actually compare to another movie.
is a rather strong argument. You don't draw comparisons to different movies with different subject matter made half a world across to justify the quality of another movie.
It is admitting that you can't defend the movie and need to use association to merely make it look good.
>The comparison does nothing but show that you forfeit the entire argument.
How can I forefit an argument you have yet to prove me wrong?
>ESB is far more than a setup, it's a direct continuation of the prequel that delves deeper into the mythos rather than obfuscating it like 3.33 does.
Thanks for the laugh. You learn more about the world and the jedi mythos in RotJ than you yo in ESB which proves how very little you know about SWs
Shinji decides some stuff for instrumentality, the outcome is either good or bad with him regretting it, appreciating it or forgetting it all together. That's probably it in a nutshell.
>Liking Pile of Sith
>Either they'll go full MPE mode and start destroying the Wunder and Mari and Asuka's dual-eva or they actually help out a little since they're essentially peoples' souls trapped within eva bodies.
I hope/doubt that dual eva thing is going actually show up in the movie.
>As bad as 3.33 is, TPM is inhumanly bad, it is completely terrible on all levels, and not a single amount of enjoyment can be had from it.
Children and fans of aliens loved Jar Jar.
They loved Pod Racing.
Just like children and fujoshi love the Wunder, Mari and Kaworu.
You might have reading comprehension problems. Delving deeper into the mythos makes no statement on amount, and it's correctly pointed out as different like the obfuscation 3.33 does.
>is a rather strong argument.
It's not. for one thing he was drawing comparison to another film which is also similar in the fact that it is largely a setup to the next film. 3.0 being a setup does not make it a bad film whether it is bad or not is entirely subjective and trying to force your subjective stance as fact only makes you look like a damn idiot
>You don't draw comparisons to different movies with different subject matter made half a world across to justify the quality of another movie.
But that's not what I did. I used EBS as an example when people kept seeing that 3.0 being a setup makes it bad and that a film series should not waste time setting up another installment both of which are stupid ass argument.
It's just like 3.33. 3DCG that's enjoyable and music that's great. The rest, not so much.
>How can I forefit an argument you have yet to prove me wrong?
Pretty sure you got disproven in that post alone, since you've yet to actually adress the discrepancies.
>Thanks for the laugh. You learn more about the world and the jedi mythos in RotJ than you yo in ESB which proves how very little you know about SWs
Not quite true, we delve far deeper into it with the meeting of Yoda and the call of Jedi's from beyond, and you completely misread what I said anyway.
With ESB we delve deeper into the mythos a well as it's characters, while 3.0 avoids doing that and actually obfuscates instead.
You're a dumbass anon.
But if Asuka and Mari pilot an Eva Together they need some Bonding scenes or at least show affinity, like the piano scenes of 3.33 or something.
I doubt we are gonna have that.
Except nobody said 3.0 being setup was "bad". This was merely denouncing the idea that making a comparison (that was proven to be flawed) does not provide an argument in favor of the movie.
That is merely the objective truth here.
Face it, you were debunked earlier and butthurt isn't going to help you.
>You're moving goalposts now.
How is reinforcing
>continuation of the prequel that delves deeper into the mythos rather than obfuscating it like 3.33 does.
>Delving deeper into the mythos makes no statement on amount, and it's correctly pointed out as different like the obfuscation 3.33 does.
>Except nobody said 3.0 being setup was "bad"
That's exactly what he said.
>This was merely denouncing the idea that making a comparison (that was proven to be flawed)
When? You didn't prove anything was flawed with the comparison because I was never comparing the quality of the films but the format it used.
That does not say anything like what you suggest, the anons actually point out that it's shit for a whole slew of other reasons prior to even mentioning setup.
>Pretty sure you got disproven in that post alone
But I didn't. Again you're moving goalposts not proving anything other than saying "NO U" over and over again.
>With ESB we delve deeper into the mythos a well as it's characters
Wrong again. ESB offers more questions than answers and part of the reason why so many people were disappointed with RotJ was because the answers were unstaisfactory.
Stop trying to pretend you're well verse in a subject matter you're not just because you hated 3.0
Stop being butthurt over being proven wrong
Time to quit it anon. I recognize you, you're practically the only one dumb enough in the entire fanbase to draw ESB comparisons and endear that it's a "setup" when the rest of the anon's are discussing it's content and direction.
I'll point out what is pointed out to you several times before probably:
Being setup does not excuse 3.0 for being a poorly written movie. I suggest you move on.
The fuck is wrong with you?
Empire is objectively the best movie. ANH has the best sense of adventure. Jedi is a halfway decent conclusion with two very solid scenes that make it enjoyable.
And you're out of arguments. I now realize why I stopped coming to Eva threads because the people here just want to shitpost and talk about waifus then make good discussion
>That does not say anything like what you suggest
Uhh...except it does. They're saying that the idea of an entire movie being a setup is wrong.
I've even seen that image before too in a similar discussion. You can't hide.
No matter how much you try to throw red herrings and strawmen at /a/, you'll always be denied.
>I now realize why I stopped coming to Eva threads because the people here just want to shitpost and talk about waifus then make good discussion
So this is why we've been having some not so bad Evangelion threads lately.
Mind taking a longer vacation? Because we could sure need some time off from "that one guy" who thinks 3.0 being "setup" somehow excuses how bad a movie it is.
Thread was actually pretty interesting before you showed up too. Which is something you should take note off.
Give it a rest kid, you have not even attempted to refute my claims or may a decent rebuttal to the ones listed.
You can't prove that 3.0 is a poorly written movie. All you're doing is pushing your basless opinion as fact
1.11>2.0=3.33 (both movies have a lot of problems).
To be honest as a Rei fan even if I hate the Ending of Rebuild 2.0, I was very hype about the relationship of Shinji and Rei in 3.33.
Because nothing screams "artistic value" like fujoshi pandering and even longer action segments than the previous two.
Reminder that your claims were refuted first, then you got butthurt about it.
Stay mad kiddo.
This anon put it best. 2.0 was a pure popcorn movie through and through. Meanwhile 3.0's narrative is a mess thanks to the show don't tell and waiting game methods while 2.0's was fairly straightforward and consistent. 1.0 was alright, but more or less a straight up adaptation of the first 6 episodes with some minor but critical changes.
The Soryu vs Shikinami thread yesterday was terrible and the various threads about the manga ending were also bad.
>Thread was actually pretty interesting before you showed up too
Let's see more generic 3.0 shitflinging like every Eva thread has nowadays. Thanks facts they'll never be a decent Eva thread on /a/ again after 3.0 the last good post 3.0 Eva thread was the one after the TV ending revealing the title of the next movie.
He put it worst. Having a narrative that doesn't work makes the movie unartistic.
3.33 was a movie that made it's mess a narrative in favor to sell idealized products to otaku and fujoshi.
1.0 and 2.0 being straightforward and consistent with itself makes it by far the more valuable entries as far as being artistic goes.
He did it, however he didn't know he was capable of such power - so he's partially guilty for it.
The real question is his relation to the time skip's third impact and if he played any part in that.
>no one would tell him what the right thing was
Because no on else knew what the right thing to do was either. They would tell him to do one thing, and then immediately change their minds.
Gendo: Pilot the EVA, Shinji, even though I abandoned you and barely spoke to you or acknowledged you after your mother died before your very eyes.
Gendo: Well don't pilot the EVA then if you are going to be a faggot over seriously injuring Toji/Asuka even though it those incidents were not really your fault.
Misato: Pilot the EVA Shinji, even though it causes you pain, it causes collateral damage, people die due to the destruction of the Angel battles, and your father is an asshole. Also, Rei is in danger! (Mari: PILOT THE EVA, SHINJI!)
Misato: You caused another impact because of your actions but I'm not going to set you down and tell you exactly what you did or explain anything else. You are not allowed to do anything anymore. (Sakura: WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T PILOT AN EVA!)
Kaworu: You caused all of this destruction with your actions that almost caused an impact but there is a way to reverse everything by obtaining these spears
Kaworu: I'm sorry to try and tell you this meekly at the last minute but you probably shouldn't grab those spears. I'm not going to tell you why, I'm just going to remain unclear and not explain outright what's going on or what I just realized to myself.
And then people wonder why Shinji is constantly headfucked.
>big battle Wunder goes down
>Mari sacrifices herself to save Asuka telling her to pursue happiness like Kawo
>Rei Q denies Gendo but uses the SDAT
>SDAT empowered double soul Rei intervenes
>30 min Instrumentality scene
>restoration of the world happens
>Asuka and Shinji on a beach again
>we see reborn Misato and Rei etc get magically placed next to them
>Shinji starts to tear up and he uses his hands to
pull Asuka in for a kiss
>she replies with tsun 'disgusting'
I just want people to be happy ;_;
>1.0 and 2.0 being straightforward and consistent with itself makes it by far the more valuable entries as far as being artistic goes.
One is a boring recap the other is a dumb Micheal Bay movie they have as much artistic value as a billboard
If you don't like talking about 3.0, then why even come here? Nobody except yourself is going to agree with your views, which is why you've been samefagging all thread.
If you don't like it's being criticized, then you have to come up with better arguments than "another movie was setup and that makes 3.0 good because it's also setup in my opinion".
Stop poisoning the thread. Get out or actually discuss it like the adult your'e supposed to be. Talk about what it does.
I find it interesting how you need to point to the earlier image you had posted, again to disprove you being exposed as a samefag.
Indeed, that's why you actually keep the image isn't it?
>3.33 was a movie that made it's mess a narrative in favor to sell idealized products to otaku and fujoshi.
Yes, and 2.22 wasn't?
I notice that Khara always harkens back to 2.22 if they're really intent on selling products and merchandise. Especially regarding Pachinko, mobile games or Rei. Same goes for plug suits, evas and so on.
Yet both manage to be better artistically than 3.33. Brilliant.
The first two aren't end-all-be-all masterpieces, it's just that 3.33 is so ridiculously bad.
Sort of, especially since you amended "twister", since as mere meta-commentary the movie isn't very successful.
>Yet both manage to be better artistically than 3.33
They don't. You just don't like 3.33 but luckily I'm not a biased retard so I can see both films for what they truly. Go watch an actual bad movie sometime and then people will take you seriously
Thread asks "What contrived reason will Wille have for not killing him the second they pick them up?"
Instead it derails into another "why is 3.0 bad/good" argument until inevitably derailing into another "destruction of Rei/Red vs. Blue" argument.
It all comes back to the boogeyman. These threads were a lot better when they were less of a circlejerk and more of a discussion of different opinions but it seems like you've opted to focus all your attention on a surrogate because NO ONE CAN LIKE WHAT I DON'T LIKE OR THINK IT'S GOOD.
>Yes, and 2.22 wasn't?
How could it be? It's consistent with both prequel and itself internally, the narrative is straightforward and doesn't rely on overtly cheap methods to support itself.
The plot of 3.33 is a mess, with 2.22 it's linear and jointed well enough.
>I notice that Khara always harkens back to 2.22 if they're really intent on selling products and merchandise. Especially regarding Pachinko, mobile games or Rei. Same goes for plug suits, evas and so on.
Yes, the reason being that 3.33 due to it's lacking substance as well as quality as a movie, doesn't attract the goodwill 2.22 did.
3.33 is intent on selling products and messed up the narrative for it, that being it's problem. 3.33 still pushes products to this day in the form of Kaworu and Kawoshin, as well as Asuka and the rest.
That they don't push Rei is simply because Rei can't really be said to be in 3.33.
As merchandise 3.33 far outdoes 2.22 given the numerous temp eva-stores opened.
>claims other guy is biased because he doesn't like 3.33
>somehow you magically aren't, despite not having shred of evidence except butthurt that the thread criticizes 3.0
It's more than justified in this case. You just can't get anywhere with a person that's best responses are one-liners, "thanks for the laugh" and all that.
Probably something like this.
I expect a more definitive and upbeat ending this time around.
I don't see the instrumentality scene being very long though, if it even happens.
I expect lots of robot punching instead.
I'm really surprised Rei fags haven't spammed this thread already.
>Except it isn't. 2.0 is full of flaws in logic, jumps in character and forcing situations
I give it a free pass ALONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE because it actually doesn't have those flaws, jumps or forced situations like 3.0.
3.33 takes it way too far with a timeskip and reducing every single character to undeveloped plot devices who fight and show their body more than they talk and interact.
2.22 on the other hand develops characters and doesn't go beyond any limits. As you said, it's similar to the original.
The straightforward plot and consistent story makes it easier for the masses latch onto. It's one of the principal reasons why 2.0 is consistently and commercially milked to high heaven and back, even if it was released nearly 6 years ago.
I don't think he knew what was going on, he was in some kind of blue energy tunnel when it was happening.
When the big vortext thing showed up in 3.33, he was confused what the hell it was, like he never saw anything like that before.
She's the gay leeron character now. From TTGL.
>The straightforward plot and consistent story makes it easier for the masses latch onto.
Correct, it also makes it easier for it's message and development to seem plausible, to make an impact that isn't negative rejection.
I think you prove in my favor here, since 3.0 compromises it's entire narrative, story, plot and character quality in order to simplify it's components to marketable items.
This was simply too much. With 3.0 they could push an entire new line of Evangelion units, figures and other assorted themed merchandise (In particular Kaworu and Kaworu x Shinji merchandise). But it turned off some people.
That's why 3.0 is left as the more niche product, lacking in artistic integrity for having "sold out" to that niche.
So it really is like Bayformers
Not him but none of that makes any sense. He's not viciously attacking 3.0 so that makes him bias? Please. The haters for 3.0 repeat the same stale arguments over and over again with no form of criticism offered other than what the bandwagon keeps saying.
I agree. He definitely has no clue whatsoever. I mean, he literally says he has no idea what's going on. That part should be hammered in well enough to remove all doubt.
See the post times.
It's only you ITT:
The same arguments get repeated since they're true, and many people share the same thoughts of the movie.
When you get angry at the "bandwagon" instead of addressing the arguments you apparently hate, you're just derailing the thread into a pointless discussion you'll never be able to win.
At the end of the day, next thread will be the same.
Then the thread after that, and the thread after that again.
The reason 3.33 gets that "bandwagon" of hate is because the movie does have considerable issues, issues which cannot be handwaved away by the mere mention that it is "setup".
>The straightforward plot and consistent story makes it easier for the masses latch onto.
So it's just a dumb popcorn movie. I thought Eva's appeal was that it wasn't just another superficial dumb robot show that was made to appeal to everyone it just became that way because it was interesting as a product it itself. Really shows how much the fanbase have changed over the years
>When the big vortext thing showed up in 3.33, he was confused what the hell it was
Nope. He doesn't show any confusion towards it.
While he was rescuing Rei, he was pretty much functioning on some kind of subconscious instinct at that point. He was basically going full berserk mode like Yui-eva 01 would undergo during dangerous crisis situations with angels. The eye-laser beams, forming a substitute arm out of the eva's AT field and retrieving Rei's soul out of that angel all came off as some sort of second nature to him.
>undeveloped plot devices
Asuka is a plot device that has no reasons to act like tough shit but she does, then gets put on the path of loving the Shinji, cooks for him, is put on Eva 03 and used as a reason for Shinji to throw a tantrum, no actual logical development happened.
Ritsuko does nothing bubt techno babble.
Kaji is fujo bait and the dude that dos spy stuff.
Mari is fanservice and misterious plot device that can get into Tokyo 3 undetected while parachuting and infiltrates and takes over 02 with no issue.
Rei is poka poka a huge jump from her character in 1.0 made to pander to Reifags.
Shinji is much more boring than in the original and much more of a tantrum maker.
2.0 shat on the characters and in everything else.
I wonder what 3.33 would be like if they had decided on the more consistent and constructive direction instead.
Not quite true, because it was out of the ordinary and could be taken seriously, it had a mass appeal - the series garned serious attention due to that. Reminder that NGE is very constructive in it's development, as well as straight forward and linear in it's plot development with only a sparse amount of flashbacks to set the backgrounds of the various characters.
This doesn't make it dumb, rather it's what it says and how it does it that makes it intelligent if anything.
3.33 was just a popcorn movie, sadly.
Shows even more when people are bitching about the plot issues 3.0 yet they don't even remember all of the backlash that the final two episodes or EoE received from viewers. It really does show how ignorant or just outright spoonfed the newer fans are.
>The same arguments get repeated since they're true
But they're not. If they were there wouldn't be people refuting them in every thread. They're stock arguments, they're not merits of truth but things that get repeated when people can't explain their reasons or they're just trying to fit it.
>and many people share the same thoughts of the movie.
And many people don't. You see? People can share a different opinion from you.
>When you get angry at the "bandwagon" instead of addressing the arguments you apparently hate
I don't care because you're not doing anything to make your argument sound just repeating stock arguments over and over again and when people do argue back you handwaved it with "autism" or call out the boogeyman because you've forgotten how to argue.
>Asuka is a plot device that has no reasons to act like tough shit but she does, then gets put on the path of loving the Shinji, cooks for him, is put on Eva 03 and used as a reason for Shinji to throw a tantrum, no actual logical development happened.
All developed in the movie. The development was entirely logical and founded in simple causality. Asuka's introduction, her reaction to current situation, and the logical development based on her characterization.
>Ritsuko does nothing bubt techno babble.
Such is her role until later.
>Kaji is fujo bait and the dude that dos spy stuff.
>Mari is fanservice and misterious plot device that can get into Tokyo 3 undetected while parachuting and infiltrates and takes over 02 with no issue.
You're missing out how that is entirely developed within the movie.
>Rei is poka poka a huge jump from her character in 1.0 made to pander to Reifags.
It's analogous to the development Rei did in NGE, and as such is IC.
>Shinji is much more boring than in the original and much more of a tantrum maker.
Dumb opinion. People did certainly not hold that opinion after seeing 2.0.
Conclusion: You're insane.
Did you actually watch 2.0? Those are either perfectly in character, or have supplied characterization within the movie to justify them.
I dont' see a single illogical thing with Asuka's development either. The feeling people get in general is that it's entirely logical as well. I don't see what you mean at all.
Being different from NGE != bad.
>But they're not. If they were there wouldn't be people refuting them in every thread. They're stock arguments, they're not merits of truth but things that get repeated when people can't explain their reasons or they're just trying to fit it.
Consider the contradiction you pose. If they weren't true, why aren't you right in that people can discredit them? It's been over two years now. You might have tried yourself, but you know it can't be done.
You're getting mad at people making arguments that go against your opinion. Maybe you're the one that should accept that a lot of people consider 3.0 to be poor?
If you're just going to attack the "bandwagon", then you're just creating pointless conflict.
It's using a smokescreen of plot devices with absurdly long timeskips (14 years!) and absolute inane ideas like Curse of EVA to cover itself. It goes out of it's way to make any sort of explanation unavailable to the main character, even when all the characters have every reason to supply it.
It's the most cowardly and pretentious movie of all the Rebuild entries so far. It establishes almost nothing but superficial ideas and builds nothing of value on it's own that isn't directly attributable to how marketable it is as a product.
There seems to be something new said about 3.0 every day.
>Not quite true, because it was out of the ordinary and could be taken seriously, it had a mass appeal - the series garned serious attention due to that
That's no different from Gundam or any other robot anime at the time period, and virtually everything from Eva is borrowed heavily from products of yesteryear. And you're not saying anything, Eva was not made to appeal to the masses but it did due to it's interesting characterization an storytelling depending on how well those were done has been up for debate for years.
>If they weren't true, why aren't you right in that people can discredit them? It's been over two years now.
Actually it's been done several times the only difference is that the people who liked the film aren't as vocal as they were back then while people who dislike it, as with any film with detractors, never stopped being vocal about which is why the threads are forever terrible because there is no middle way between the two and both sides won't back down.
>You're getting mad at people making arguments that go against your opinion.
That would be you actually hence why you seem to explode at the notion of people disagreeing with you.
Yeah just checked it you are right.
I remembered that the lights outside start way before Shinji actually starts diving into the core to save her.
The thing is, that tunnel already exists at that point too.
>That's no different from Gundam or any other robot anime at the time period, and virtually everything from Eva is borrowed heavily from products of yesteryear.
Correct. Evangelion borrows heavily from prior anime, and also special effects shows not just from Japan, but overseas.
Evangelion, the TV-esres
>And you're not saying anything,
Oh but I am, observe:
>Eva was not made to appeal to the masses but it did due to it's interesting characterization an storytelling depending on how well those were done has been up for debate for years.
Which 3.0 does not have. The interesting characterization and storytelling, all it has is otaku and fujoshi products, storytelling, narrative and plot are decisively rejected in favor of selling characters and fantasies.
It is also not true that EVA was not supposed to appeal to the masses. The choice of making it a TV-series over an OVA, was consciously made so that it would reach as many people as possible. It's design choices are by the designers and Anno described to have the purpose of being likable.
>There seems to be something new said about 3.0 every day.
It's almost like they're just hating something for the sake of hating it and find new excuses to do so. It's sad really.
Not that anon, but a part of eva's charm was the sheer amount of complexities, twists, symbolism, technobabble and minor details that could be analyzed from its plot as well as its characterisation. While Rebuild isn't nearly un to par with NGE's characterisation - and that's mostly due to short running time - the plot and worldbuidling aspects are still very deep and require some legitimate thinking and in-depth analyzation if you want to have any idea what's going on.
>Actually it's been done several times
In your dreams. It's not a matter of being vocal, arguments stand up regardless.
You're retreating into a fantasy world where it's just the mean "haters". Maybe the reason things get out of hand is because you won't back down, and then blame the bandwagon.
I'm not mad at you disagreeing, I'm only annoyed that you think it's the fault the "bandwagon" that you can't counter-argue anything whatsoever, and you're so mad at that your opinion might not be as informed as you think.
Blame yourself for not being able to stand up for your opinion, and if your opinon really does seem to clash with reality, consider changing it.
3.0 feel so fucking static. There's next to zero character development.
Shinji goes from eager to help out to utterly broken. That's it. No one else develops as a character.
It feels so lifeless and boring.
>Evangelion borrows heavily from prior anime, and also special effects shows not just from Japan, but overseas.
Never said anything about shows outside Japan so I have no idea why you would distinguish that
No but you're not. I'm just amused at the hypocrisy at this point since you're for 2.0 being a dumb popcorn movie which goes against what Eva stands for.
>Which 3.0 does not have.
In your opinion.
> The choice of making it a TV-series over an OVA, was consciously made so that it would reach as many people as possible.
Not all TV series are meant for mass appeal and OVAs can reach mass appeal through word of the mouth as well.
>and that's mostly due to short running time
They have enough time. They only have a few episodes worth of content less, and much of it has already been effectively "cut", i.e Magma Diver, Jet Alone, and so on.
The reason it doesn't have enough time is that 3.0 wasted it. It also reset the characters as well.
It's armchair anime criticism at it's finest which is why I've stopped taking anything what's said in these threads seriously.
>was the sheer amount of complexities, twists, symbolism, technobabble
Funny thing is you just listed reasons why people hate it as well.
>Never said anything about shows outside Japan so I have no idea why you would distinguish that
Because it's an interesting fact? NGE takes influence from many things.
I'm sure you can spot the similarities between EVA's intro and this.
>No but you're not. I'm just amused at the hypocrisy at this point since you're for 2.0 being a dumb popcorn movie which goes against what Eva stands for.
You're being full of shit right now. You're inventing "points" here that is in no way what EVA "stands for". You are making the implication that the earlier episodes of NGE are something "NGE" does not stand for, despite having it clearly within it's own canon, making up a sizable chunk of what NGE is.
It's not hypocrisy. 1.0 or 2.0 being straight forward and easy to understand is to it's credit, 3.0 being a contrived mess is to it's discredit. Even a "popcorn-movie" can have varying degrees of quality and success in relating something believable or important. The bottom line is that 2.0 and 1.0 are better at replicating the hopeful tone of early NGE, than 3.0 is at replicating the darker parts of later NGE.
Because in essence, 3.0 is a pandering flick that disguises itself beneath pleb misconceptions that dark = deep.
>In your opinion.
>Not all TV series are meant for mass appeal and OVAs can reach mass appeal through word of the mouth as well.
Not mass appeal. Anno was of the opinion that they didn't at the time they were making EVA anyway, so you can't actually disagree here, you're just plain wrong. NGE wasn't meant to NOT appeal to a lot of people. At best you can say that it become more popular than anticipated.
Actually it does. You can stand up for a argument just because it's a cool thing to do doesn't make the argument valid or less opinionated.
When you have two discerning parties who won't see eye to eye this is bound to argument it has nothing to do with who's right or has better arguments (trust me you don't) and instead just intend to parade the popular opinion.
So saying that people didn't start taking robot anime seriously before Eva is incorrect and anime borrowing effects from live action is not uncommon either
Format has nothing to do with whether a show appeals mass appeal or not, a TV series can bomb and not appeal to anything, appeal to a niche or a small audience. An OVA can reach mass appeal as well his point is that Eva was never made to appeal to a wider audience like the Rebuild series has.
>change their minds immediately
Immediately ? No.
Because circumstances changed their decisions changed.
The dummy system was created so Gendo swapped to don't care later on.
The impact happened so Misato swapped to no which she explained.
The spears were wrong so Kawo went to no by explicitly stating to Shinji that.
Shinji was head-fucked from all the guilt at that point so he ignored all of the No*s and desperately went for it anyway.
>Funny thing is you just listed reasons why people hate it as well.
Now you're being retarded. I don't understand how you can lower yourself like this.
Not that anon, but quite obviously a twist, symbolism or complexity are things that aren't good in themselves. They need context, they need execution, they need to enforce the belief that they weren't jammed into the movie for the sake of having them.
When 3.0 introduces a timeskip, removes one of the most developed core characters like Rei, arbitrarily changes the rest of the characters and don't develop them, and spend an injustifiable amount of time on shipping Kaworu and Shinji, the conclusion many are going to make is that the twists and whatnot were just plot devices as opposed to something with meaning.
>So saying that people didn't start taking robot anime seriously before Eva is incorrect and anime borrowing effects from live action is not uncommon either
Not quite sure how this relates to anything.
>Format has nothing to do with whether a show appeals mass appeal or not, a TV series can bomb and not appeal to anything, appeal to a niche or a small audience. An OVA can reach mass appeal as well his point is that Eva was never made to appeal to a wider audience like the Rebuild series has.
Anno, and anyone sane disagrees.
A TV-series is televised and so reaches people's homes as a matter of course, an OVA does not.
This should be absolutely obvious, and shouldn't need to be explained. From a pre-production point of view, televising something is giving Anno what he wants, getting the work out to an audience at once.
I really sense you're alone in this thread trying to be defensive of 3.0, and that's just disgusting behaviour. Can't you grow up and take it for what it is, and not the ideal masterpiece you pretend it to be?
Rei Q goes from mindless drone to mindless drone but I'ma help this Shinji guy instead of his farther because reasons.
0 for anyone else though. Wille are probably going to be even more pissed at Shinji hurray.
Not going to bother responding any more. Blame the bandwagon all you want.
If you want to argue the actual movie, you can do that instead of pretending they're just "stock arguments" you don't have to deal with.
Your butthurt at being rebuked and debunked regarding your defense of 3.0 isn't entertaining any more.
The colour schemes are incredibly important actually, and refers to the merging of two fruits of life (fruit of life = blue, fruit of knowledge = red) to create a new life form altogether.
Notice that the 9th angel is actually pile of blue evasive core material" when it begins to contaminate Asuka as she's in eva 03's core. Upon the contact with her, the eva goes wacko and triggers a "mini-impact" that leaves behind a cross-shaped crater that looks remarkably similar to the second impact's crater site in Antarctica.
When Shinji's rescuing Rei from inside the angel, he passes through a similar blue wall of goop to grab her hand. Meanwhile eva 01 is glowing red before its hand makes direct contact with the angel's core. But once it does, blue material starts flashing out of the evas core, the dimension tube starts turning blue and so on. Then when Shinji finally rescues Rei, he absorbs Rei into his eva's core (who's now taken the form of core material containing the mixture of the angel's LCL) and eva 01 begins to glow purple instead of red.
All in all the case involves sticky blue angel stuff (or something contaminated by it) making it's way a red eva core (which we all know is still symbolic lingo for a vagina/womb.) The sticky blue stuff hits the egg (who are Rei and Asuka during these situations) and it causes them to evolve. The results with Rei nearly cause third impact which was going to "give birth" to a new type of life form was intended to evolve all of humanity into some kind of super-life, as Ritsuko puts it. Meanwhile, the results with Asuka gave her that funky angel eye, super-human strength and so on.
So basically, what you're looking at is some kind of angel insemination. FAR sex and a following knockup basically.
If we're taking non-development like that, then Asuka does have a change of heart regarding Shinji near the end as well.
She goes from abandoning him to picking him up. That's arguably far more than Rei Q gets, since Rei Q has no context or actual reasoning, Asuka's can be construed as an emotional change.
Despite it being contrived as hell.
>The colour schemes are incredibly important actually, and refers to the merging of two fruits of life (fruit of life = blue, fruit of knowledge = red) to create a new life form altogether.
So that's why Angels have red cores, or in many cases explode into red. It doesn't add up to scrutiny. Even the Angels in other movies are red when morphed.
Rebuild's nonsense is just that, nonsense.
I will give you that "immediately" may have been the wrong word to use.
>The dummy system
Shinji had no idea that the dummy system was being used until the last minute. Gendo or even Ritsuko or Fuyutsuki for that matter could have given him a heads up.
Circumstances did change, which lead to Misato's mindset changing. Ritsuko and Misato's "explanations" as to what happened did satisfy me in the same way Kaworu's did, so I can't blame Shinji at all for ditching Wille and going off with ReiQ. They STILL behaved like assholes and from Shinji's perspective, their behavior still didn't make any darn sense.
Kaworu had no problem explaining what had happened to the world as a result of Shinji's actions, but then he also fell into the same inability to explain things fully in a way that Shinji could understand (like Misato and Ritsuko) when it came to the spears. Granted Shinji was fully convinced he was going to change the world and was pumped up - ready to pull the spears at any given time just like you said. He may have pulled them regardless of what Kaworu said, but I still feel that Kaworu should have fucking tried harder.
Nit really and it also has nothing to do with the argument so thanks for that useless tidbit
>You're inventing "points" here that is in no way what EVA "stands for". You are making the implication that the earlier episodes of NGE are something "NGE" does not stand for, despite having it clearly within it's own canon, making up a sizable chunk of what NGE is.
So basically what you're doing because nothing you've said in regards to 3.0 is true and is just your backwards stance against it to make yourself feel better. Nothing I said wrong because even in the beginning Eva had aspects that were different from current robot anime and stuff that wasn't meant to appeal to everyone, the Eva designs in particular are a testament to this because they're no atypical robot designs.
>1.0 or 2.0 being straight forward and easy to understand is to it's credit
It's not, it dumbs down the setting and characters heavily and lacks the interesting direction the TV series which is why I don't take people who hate 3.0 yet praise 1.0 and 2.0 seriously. It appeals to the masses because it's pandering to them exclusively rather than gaining recognition through it's own method like the TV series did.
>Because in essence, 3.0 is a pandering flick that disguises itself beneath pleb misconceptions that dark = deep.
Nothing you say makes sense just to let you know, you're just stringing words along to make you sound like an intellect but it just makes you sound stupid.
>Anno was of the opinion that they didn't at the time they were making EVA anyway, so you can't actually disagree here, you're just plain wrong
And now you're lying in Anno's stead considering his statements in regards to making the EVAs so that they'll be impossible to make toys out of and having his characters not follow in tradition of what was hot at the time? You just love to spout garbage in these threads and expect people to follow your every whim?
How am I being retarded when you're just forcing your baseless opinion on me? It's a fact that the majority of the symbolism of EVA was bullshit and that it wasn't very complex given that they spelled out the ending to viewers. Reading these threads are truly something because it proves that the people who hate 3.0 are just massive hypocrites.
angel = blood type blue and all of that.
Angels have red cores and are made out of lcl because lcl is also synonymous for blood and amniotic fluid.
We also see mark 09 dumping blue ooze into the wunder so that it could hack it from Wille in 3.0. And what's in a feral position within the Wuunder's core? Unit 01. What are all of the failures of infinity copies of? Unit 01.
I'm pretty sure Asuka never abandoned him.
She expected him to get out of the pod himself, and went back when he didn't.
She ran all the way from her pod to his, and is even out of breath when she gets there, no way she was going to abandon him at any point.
You have severe delusional problems regarding the EVA franchise. Evangelion was made a TV-series and not an OVA to reach more people, this being cited in a Der Mond interview which has Sadamoto and Anno convene on a TV-series.
That the EVA units are designed specifically so it would be hard to make toys of, is fanon. A myth. The actual story is that they did not want to follow Bandai's guidelines for making the robots.
The rest is just inane and bitter comments coming from you. You're just angry that 3.0 was crap and people can easily call it out for being crap.
Ever thought about changing your own opinion to better reflect reality anon? Now is the time.
It's not an opinion, it's fact. When you mention mere "twist" as if that was the good thing people liked, then you're completely negating the nature of the twist as well.
Essentially your whole argument is fundamentally flawed.
You are simplifying the idea of a twist, a complexity or symbolism to be the same across all the board, and so all stories and fictions which make use of these devices are somehow inherently good.
I had no idea I could encounter such a childish view here on /a/.
Please don't. You makes these threads insufferable. Before Eva threads used to be filled with some decent discussion admist the waifu faggotry in between now they're almost circlejerk level of repetition. You guys aren't even making arguments anymore just repeating the same shit over and over and over again. It's not fun or insightful.
You need to keep up or at least learn to read your own posts
Your fictional Anno you made and only you believe this way,
A TV is a format to reach an audience it doesn't guarantee mass appeal at all
I live how you're trying and failing to convince that my views are wrong and that I should follow your twisted ones. It's like a Jehovah's witness.
Wow, you are salty as fuck. If you think NGE's designers didn't want people to watch their show or earn money, why do you they think they at all made it? Are you this naive and oblivious?
Nobody will ever agree with your stupidity unless they are equally stupid themselves. But stupid can be fixed, and you should go fix yours by actually thinking for yourself instead instincitvely (and poorly) defending 3.0.
No, you actually said core material. The cores are red. Blood could just as well be blue if they had "blood type blue", so even that makes little sense.
Rebuild is hardly consistent.
It could be out of breath, and it could be because she broke open the doors. That said, it seems strange that the change of heart was there, going from being amicable to outright hostile.
>It's not an opinion, it's fact
>Essentially your whole argument is fundamentally flawed.
> a complexity or symbolism to be the same across all the board, and so all stories and fictions which make use of these devices are somehow inherently good.
Now notice how he doesn't prove what I say is factually wrong or what he says is right, just stringing words along over and over trying to sound intelligent.
>At that time the media venue also had not been decided yet, but I
really wanted to do it as a TV series or movie instead of as an OVA.
Sure, you can do higher quality with an OVA, but I felt that OVAs
were a minor media compared to TV, so it was out of self-
gratification [that I wanted to do it as a TV series]. When you are
in Tokyo and constantly reading the anime magazines, you succumb to
the illusion that OVAs are a major media. But when you live in the
provinces like me, the anime selection at the video rental shops
isn't that great, so you think of it as a more minor world.
It was done because TV was the bigger media, and that it would reach more. Anon, seek help.
Why can't you just READ the actual statements from the EVA staff instead of just lying to yourself?
The whole bit about "fictional anno" is just sad projecting.
>Now notice how he doesn't prove what I say is factually wrong or what he says is right, just stringing words along over and over trying to sound intelligent.
....you didn't get the argument?
It's not that he's trying to sound intelligent, it's more that you're so stupid you don't even know what's going on.
Next time don't use wikipedia to source your information
And this is also a lie
Your opinion of 3.0 is just that an opinion, you say people can easily call it crap but fail to do so yourself.
Ever thought of that you're just wrong and that everyone doesn't need to follow your view of things?
And notice how he doesn't prove anything in this post again. Just saying NO U over and over again
Isn't the fact that a twist can be executed in a multiple of ways, where some might be considered plausible and some completely implausible enough of an argument to prove what I'm saying? You can't just take a twist for a twist. Erring in executing one can have the unfortunate effect of discrediting the entire story.
He;s saying that he wanted to get his work out to the masses which is different from appealing to them. Where in that did he said he meant Eva to pander to the masses like you were saying earlier? It's not there? I guess fictional Anno knows best.
>No, you actually said core material. The cores are red. Blood could just as well be blue if they had "blood type blue", so even that makes little sense.
The deal is that they only excrete a blue core material when invading another eva or eva-like mech that has something stored within its core. That's the gist of it. It's really not that hard to see or interpret, the sexual imagery is already pretty blatant when cores have always bee clearly established as vags and wombs after all.
In incorporating anime cliches through and through, you are appealing to the masses. Contrary to what you think, wanting to reach as many people as possible does infer appealing to them, both in the literal sense and the normal sense.
Either way, you've been disproven regarding the move to make it an TV-series as opposed to an OVA.
You have ITT a regular anon who some times appears in threads and complains that 3.0 is being criticized. He often derails threads by just criticizing the criticism instead of being part of any constructive debate.
He's never going to accept that 3.0 is the black sheep of the Rebuild movies.
>Shinji goes from eager to help out to utterly broken.
That's character development. People seem to forget that character development doesn't always have to be positive development.
That's seems like a rather narrow definition, that isn't entirely consistent with with what you said earlier.
At any rate it's just strange that angels and eva's would in themselves have both colors, and thus with your logic both "fruits".
It's worth to note that fruits are old knowledge and whatnot, not necessarily canon in Rebuild.
Rebuild is just horrendous with the changes. It needs not be taken seriously.
>Rei Q have Character development.
Not really. If she had, you'd need to establish her character in the first place. She's still just following orders by the end of 3.0, taking Asuka's "order".
Which ironically is following an order. Plus it makes it ridiculous that just saying that would make something click.
Rei Q is just a trash character made to be subject to "new" Asuka for the pleasure of Asuka fans, and I'm guessing Anno/Tsurumaki.