Where does Assassin get off ridiculing Western swordplay as being only just able to keep up with allegedly superior Japanese kenjutsu? Medieval European swordsmanship wasn't just flailing about, it was about applying a set of key principles in a practical manner. Also the Western side has a practical advantage in terms of the sword having a cross-guard and the user wearing gauntlets allowing her to do things like grab Assassin's katanah. Overall it's really the kenjutsu practitioner who should be told "wow I'm surprised you're keeping up".
Surprisingly, the longsword or greatsword is arguably a more complex weapon that the katana. Though there were single-edge versions, it generally has two edges that can be used, as well as a versatile crossguard and pommel permitting a variety of specialized techniques.
Another element to consider is that European swords could be used in "half-sword" techniques where the second hand literally grips around the blade itself to wield the weapon in bashing, deflecting, binding, and trapping in all manner of ways that virtually make it a pole-axe or short spear. We must ponder would this be unusual for the samurai or just very similar to fighting with a short staff?
Knightly blades could be excellent swords, but are often denigrated merely as crude hunks of iron while samurai swords are venerated and exalted sometimes to the point of absurdity by collectors and enthusiasts (something the Japanese themselves do not discourage). Bad films and poorly trained martial artists reinforce this myth.
The bottom line is that Medieval swords were indeed well-made, light, agile fighting weapons equally capable of delivering dismembering cuts or cleaving deep into body cavities. They were far from the clumsy, heavy things they're often portrayed as in popular media and far, far more than a mere "club with edges." Interestingly, the weight of katanas compared to longswords is very close with each on average being less than 4 pounds.
>Portuguese swordsmen rekt Nipponjins with their parrying dagger / rapier setup
>They also enslaved them until they realised they weren't subhumans like the African ones and released them
On the bright side, they made a point of showing off how a katana, even in the hands of a supernaturally skilled wielder, is still utterly incapable of penetrating western plate armor.
If Saber had been wearing full plate like a proper knight and not that historically inaccurate post-medieval gothic half-plate bullshit, she would've walked all over Assassin.
Because he's arrogant. The VN specifically mentions that he's having to rely on sheer technique to make up for the power disparity between his katana and Saber's claymore. And since Saber, being a class that specializes in swordsmanship, is of at least equal technique to even assassin's
literallymythic level's of swordsmanship by default. Assassin is inevitably going to lose in a straight bout. Anyways, I haven't been keeping up with the anime, did they use this track for assassin?
Or did they shit out some stupid original ost?
He's more respectful in the VN, where he compliments her power and form, but apologizes that his sword would snap if he tried to match her in strength, so he's just going to keep cutting at her from far away.
>and poorly trained martial artists reinforce this myth.
So if people with at least rudimentary knowledge and training with the weapon don't agree with the theories of the faggot writer, they're not to be taken seriously. Yeah, okay.
While there are certainly similarities and universal commonalties between the two styles of swordsmanship (such as in stances and cuts), there are also significant and fundamental differences. They each make the same basic seven or eight cuts and can thrust.
As a curved blade with an especially keen edge, the katana is superior in the potential use of quick, short slices.
As a long, straight blade tapering to a keen point, the longsword is a better thruster. Additionally, its dual edges, enabled by a graspable pommel, allow it to attack along more lines than just eight standard cuts. Having two edges to work with can quickly permit back-edge and reverse cuts. This permits a far larger number of strikes from different angles.
The katana is wielded in a quick-flowing manner with a torque of the grip as well as a push of the hips. Pulling a curved blade in this way makes it slice as it shears. The footwork is more linear with short quick hopping (even shuffling) steps.
Medieval swords were made for hacking, shearing cuts delivered primarily from the elbow and shoulder and employing wide passing steps. The actions are larger with more fast whirling actions as the two edges are employed, the pommel alone gripped, or the hands changed to different positions on the hilt.
If we bring into the equation the Medieval bastard-sword with compound-hilt of side-rings and bar-guards as well as the waisted or half-grip handle using various methods of holding, this could also be a significant factor. Such hilts allow for a variety of significant one or two-hand gripping options and gives superior tip control for thrusting and edge alignment.
From this, it can be seen that a direct comparison of a European sword to a Japanese one is not possible. They are "apples and oranges", so to speak. They're both fruit, both delicious, but you can do different, though very similar, things with each.
>Talking about historical accuracy concerning King Author.
It's debatable weather King Author even existed and most mention of him is in legend and works of fiction.
S/he can be whatever the writers want him/her to be.
I liked the part where Saber used her gauntleted hand to physically seize the Monohoshizao. There isn't enough use of grappling and disarming techniques in fictional swordfights.
>Or did they shit out some stupid original ost?
Original OST. I don't think there's been much VN music if any at all, though Archer's theme seems to have some hints of Emiya about its motif.
The VN straight up states that the claymore would cut Assassin's blade in half. During their fights, False Assassin was having to fight purely on the defensive under the sheer force of Saber's blows.
As if we didn't have a bajillion remixes of Emiya already. I doubt it'll even live up to Kenji Kawai's version.
>As if we didn't have a bajillion remixes of Emiya already. I doubt it'll even live up to Kenji Kawai's version.
I don't even know why everyone wants the shitty VN soundtrack remixed
The VN's soundtrack gets the job done but what gets me in particular is the people who want the anime to use Breach.
It's nothing but electronic farting noises set to a backing of dubstep.
>bzzzzzztbzzzzzt FART FART bzzzzzzt bzzzzzzt bzzzzzzt (pause) bzzzzzztbzzzzzzt FART FART bzzzzzzztbzzzzzzztbzzzzzt (pause_
>It's nothing but electronic farting noises set to a backing of dubstep.
Well, anons also think Disillusion is the best OP the franchise has ever had, so this doesn't really surprise me.
>I don't actually know what dubstep is.
Though I do agree with you. Breach poorly conveyed tension.
Still my favorite, though, fuck you, the original disillusion was great.
A heavy sword wielded with reasonable strength can dent the armor and transmit force sufficiently to cause major damage (though you might prefer a bludgeon for this)
Thrusting techniques with narrower swords can attack joints not covered by plate
And quality armor is expensive and maintenance-heavy.
He hasn't got a legend. He's just a wraith summoned into a servant container because Caster is a cheat. He's not Sasaki Kojirou, and in fact Kojirou never even existed. He's just a guy who lived at the temple and mastered swordsmanship to a godlike level.
>Wouldn't even chainmail negate the cutting factor
A broadsword isn't so much about cutting and more about imparting a lot of energy on a small area. Even if it doesn't kill you you can't fight with broken bones.
>Wouldn't even chainmail negate the cutting factor
Who cares if it cuts you? You just got whacked with a hunk of metal weighing several pounds. Enjoy your lacerations and broken bones.
Good job knowing fuck all. Maille was specifically designed to defeat edged weapons. You'd need a really strong hit to do any damage worth shit through maille, which is a way harder prospect in a real fight than you seem to give it credit for.
Swords are for unarmored opponents and a sidearm as a last resort.
Nope, just chainmail.
But they had the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!
>swords can only slash, stabbing is a myth
>chainmail covers every inch of a body, including the eyes
>there is enough metal for everyone to wear chainmail at every hour of every day
Sasaki Kojiro wasn't a real person is what Fate is trying to assert, so the Grail found someone close enough to Sasaki.
I wasn't even arguing this in the first place, I was just saying he's famous through swordmanship and he has home territory bonus
>Sasaki Kojiro wasn't a real person is what Fate is trying to assert, so the Grail found someone close enough to Sasaki.
No Caster isn't a regular master so she had to cheat.
She didn't summon from the throne of heroes but grabed a wraith at the temple and forced it into a servant container
They were also a lot more durable. All the scenes where samurai hit their blades against each other are rather silly. The reason samurai focused their technique on killing there enemy with one hit was because a katana became easily useless after a couple of hits, they would would sometimes even break when hit against each other.
>As a curved blade with an especially keen edge...
...You would still be better with western weapons. Pic related, Easter Europe sabre.
>Saber is alive only because of her armour
I don't see any problems
You sure are upset you BAKA GAIJIN
I guess the truth that GRORIOUS NIPPON kenjutsu was lightyears ahead of western barbarism is too much for you.
If you want to talk about curved swords, look no further than the Talwar.
>Not mastering all weapons and magic.
>His maste looks too young to fight in this war
>What's next, a little girl?
I wish we could get Ever Present Feeling at least
>rambles on about western swordplay being shit
>Musashi Miyamoto whacks him over head with an oar and kills him instantly
And after some time they evolved into a) shorter and lighter types. commonly used on foot, and heavy, longer ones that cavalry had.
Second one was used almost as a fucking butcher cleaver from a horse, the first one was quite elegant weapon that required technique and allowed a variety of moves.
Assassins are only good when their masters aren't complete idiots.
And that only happened once, in Extra.
Alternatively, they're good when their master is dead.
>use luck as dump stat
But Cu didn't do that.
Or you don't know what a dump-stat is
Cu was strong enough
>His arms had not been left near him, except his chariot only. And he took his chariot on his back, and he set out to attack the men of Erin, and he smote them with the chariot, until he reached the place where Fergus macRoig was.
Plebs, behold the sword of the empire stretching over 3 continents.
>And that only happened once, in Extra.
I'd say that her master classifies as a complete idiot just for having "let's wake up the fucking spider" as a goal.
And that goal then changed to "let's try and make zealot girl suffer".
So, yeah, probably going to get fucked over by her own master.
Your post is wrong regarding weight.
Katanas are several pounds heavier than a longsword, and because of its curved blade and weight distribution, to be wielded with both hands. Longswords did not have this limitation. Katanas are both longer, and denser. They are noticeably heavier.
Aye. any kind of allmighty, or status aliment spells.
I could have given her Null mind and Null Nerve. But then I would only have room for one other skill.
I've given her Mediarama, Recarm, and Energy Drain.
These are the only skills that can hurt her
What can you expect from a lowly Oriental farmer?
Look at that disgusting piece of rod he calls a sword, he'll never own anything as awesome as pic related.
He's not even a real Servant and is just a mere pushover to stall the plot, he will never be good at swordplay.
If he was actually summoned, yes.
Its sorta the same problem with Ryunsuke and Blue Beard: He is not a real servant, he is a wraith summoned by the HG because it was better.
At which point the wraith descends into scaling against the default container for the Fujuki grail, so he has A+ agility because Assassin has a class default of B.
When the Japanese attempted to invade Korea prior to their Empire invasions, There are accounts of Korean blades cutting Japanese ones in half due to Japan having to use their own mediocre metals versus Korea having much wider access through trade especially with China.
Of course this is an account from a Korean historical perspective since no Japanese soldier would ever admit to this sort of thing in their records. So there is almost certainly some bias involved, but the metallurgy ability of each country does lend some possibility to this claim.
It doesn't really matter if he existed or not ad long as his legend does. Servants are either real hero's or hero's of Legend, as long as legends are great they can be chosen by the grail.
>Kills the shit out of Saber due Wind Immunity
>Baits the shit out of the rest of the servants
>Scared Cu into doing something really stupid
>Only loses because Kotomine has no heart.
>using literal chunks of metal
>not using lances
>Getting blood splattered all over you when you attack.
>getting fucked up if you miss, since you're so close
Sword fags pls go.
That was literaly the shadow attacking.
He afterwards he waited until the shadow broke his Rune-barrier and than used Zabanya while Cu was retreating from the shadow.
The only mistake Cu made was following Assassin into the water
>There are people who DON'T think Fate/Zero was the best story in the Fate franchise
Stay Night does have some nice bits for what it was. At least try to get through the new adaption even if it is just fighting.
The material isn't as good as the prequel but at least we are getting the whole 4th War, 5th War and hopefully epilogue stories.
Who knows they might add some more Zero elements in to make the story more interesting.
>ever being lucky enough to win in an HGW
Lancers have shit luck for sure.
Archers win wars, lancers win battles, sabers win nothing but a spot on the hip and a mantle on the wall.
Well, I guess Nasu is historically accurate after all.
> sabers win nothing but a spot on the hip and a mantle on the wall
>2nd N/A, Saber/another class for final battle mutual elimination
>3rd either Saber or another class (possibly other Saber, as it was a dual servant)
>5th Saber/Archer/Rider/Caster depending on actions of masters
>Extra Saber/Caster/Archer, previously Savior
thats not fair though, later in history cavalry sabres were used extensively, and cutlass (essentially a shorter and heavier sabre) was the standard weapon of sailors, and I am sure both cavalry and sailors have had their major decisive battles
you guys seen the portuguese fencing MA - Jogo do Pau
many of its techniques were also applied to longsword fighting
theres also short stick, double stick, etc variations
Saber killig Berserker isn't that bad, Saber was supposed to have the upper hand once they reached the cemetery, and it's not like he needs that life. It made the fight more entertaining.
I think they'll reveal at the end that Assassin wasn't fighting seriously, or that because of footing his timing was odd or something like that. Otherwise it'd fuck up the entire reason behind sword bending. Maybe they just wanted to nerf Assassin.
They better not change the Kuzuki scene. Anything after Shirou's part is good, but if Saber does anything more than get wrecked by Kuzuki's style, they'll have fucked up.
Now I'm no expert on nautical skirmish but I'm almost 100% certain boats were made with giant dicks made for j-j-jamming it in up until the point they decided to throw a whole bunch of guns on the side and keep extending how far those guns shoot.
Boarding, if you go by historical accounts, usually only happened after one side surrendered already. Even then daggers, spears, and flintlocks saw more use than the cutlass.
I kinda get a boner just thinking about fate/zero fags' reaction to Saber getting stomped by a barehanded highschool teacher.
They have to explain SOMETHING about Tsubame Gaeshi or it will at the very least completely trash Kojirou's final scene in UBW, where he will apparently attempt the same maneuver that has already failed like a complete idiot.
There'll probably be endless complaints about why Gil didn't just bust UBW immediately with Ea like he did to Ionian Hetairoi. With nobody able to accept that Gil only drew Ea because he respected Alexander.
Hadn't thought about that
Should find some fate/zerofags "reviewers" on youtube just for that.
>I think they'll reveal at the end that Assassin wasn't fighting seriously, or that because of footing his timing was odd or something like that.
Not adding the third slash of Tsubame Gaeshi was supposed to be his "not fighting seriously"
>Even then daggers, spears, and flintlocks saw more use than the cutlass.
true about the flintlocks, but the rest is debatable, as far as I know a cutlass was a mass produced weapon specifically for the sailors, at least in the bongistani navi
thats true, but it depended on the ships, trying to ram HMS Warrior for example would be a suicide
If anyone complains about that, he probably watched F/Z in 2x speed without subtitles. They wouldn't get Gil's character at all, he refused to even look at Caster's beast because it was disgraceful, and didn't want the swords that touced it back. He is as arrogant as you can get.
>I found a guy who devoted a 20 minute episode review to insulting Rin after she said Kerry was a shitty mage
Holy shit, I want to see that
>Grab the katana
Gauntlets aren't a solid mass of steel, they only cover the fingers and the outside of the hand.
Her palms would still only be covered by leather, and leather wouldn't stop a sword-quality edge from cutting into the palm.
Don't tell me, tell ufotable. They probably wanted to change things up.
If you think about it, two slashes at the same time, when slowed down to show us what's happening, leave a clear opening. And it's not flashy enough, for some reason, three slashes sound a lot more impressive than two.
Probably the same reason they made Gae Bolg that flashy. Besides Saber wanking obviously.
grabbing swords is a recognized tactic anon, used in western fencing anyway, dont know about japs
the funniest thing about the original gif, that people arguing on both sides are always idiots
Daggers were employed en masse due to tight spaces as well as used as practical tools for rigging. Spears and polearms were used to fend off anyone trying to board.
Cutlass and rapiers were primarily ornamental and considered high maintenance on the seas.
swords weren't the main weapon neither in europe nor in japan, but long weapons like halberds, naginatas and the like.
Only rich nobles could afford full body armor.
And people didn't go to battle with only a single weapon on them, but different people would have different weapons for different purposes based on their role, training, wealth and the opponents they would face.
Full body armor was beat using weapons that caused blunt trauma, like maces, or by cutting in the spaces where different pieces connected.
>Gilgamesh being a beardless teenager wearing platemail made of gold
>Noble Phantasm isn't even something from his legend
>Implying every magic weapon had been forged by Gilgamesh's time
>Gilgamesh's personality is closer to who he was at the beginning of the epic than by the end.
Both right, she was able to grab the sword but Assassin was able to produce enough cutting force to slice through the leather covering the palm and draw blood by striking the hilt.
katana isn't that strongly curved, while I am not 100% sure, I think it is possible that with a leather gloves tough enough, it might be possible to hold it with no injury
on an unrelated note, are there any surviving accounts of what portuguese thought about jap culture/religion?
Where does the 5'1" Saber get off telling Assassin he has a "slight build"?
Let's also remeber that we're talking about King Arthur here, her gloves are probably made from fuckin' dragon leather or some shit. You don't make armor that survive all that magical bullshit and then put some cow skin under it
This drives me fuckin' crazy. Partially because i have a thing for short built chicks, partially just because I'm reading words about how crazy ripped and manly her body is while I'm looking at a picture with perfectly white, smooth skin with no muscles to speak of at all.
Any one have pictures of that figure with the ripped-as-fuck back?
>You will never get a handjob from Rin.
That's exactly what I'm saying though, is that the leather is magical and so gripping a sword with it isn't bullshit regardless of whether it could be done with regular leather.
There is a bit too much of the flashing and special effects covering up the neat fight maneuvers though. ufotable's kind of hit and miss.
Where did Gil go after he was eaten by the Grail?
The choreography isn't as interesting as F/Z but it has to stay true to the novel I suppose.
If this was the Fate route it'd end with a DBZ fight between
Excalibur and Enuma Elish
This actually looks like a replica of a late period Hussar sabre from Poland
Strongly disagree, sabre is a very universal weapon
>Plebs, behold the sword of the empire >stretching over 3 continents.
Too bad they could never stretch over to Europe thanks too a bunch of angry SABRE wielding polacks
But they're doing it quite well, I frame-stepped through archer's "dodge this" and caldabolg attack and they actually had frames of medea deflecting kanshou and bakuya with her staff and her arm getting severed despite that being overshadowed by flashy SFX fireworks.
What I mean is that they aren't using those SFX to just go lazy on the character animation
Oh no, their animation remains top quality. I'm saying they're going overboard on the effects and it's lowering the quality as a result.
Going frame by frame through that webm has Archer and Kojirou's weapons vanishing for two frames though. Must've been an animation glitch.
You have to consider that this fights are happening at superhuman speeds and strengths and with magic being thrown around.
Consider the alternative: naruto shadow clones and flash steps.
Earlier in the episode there's a single frame where saber disappears. Going frame by frame through sakuga is a bit of a hobby.
You can really tell that ufotable heavily favours digital production, though. There's many frames where they slide the characters forwards or backwards without actually animating their movement, sort of like a cardboard cutout sliding on a static background before jumping to the next keyframe position a few frames later. They usually mask it pretty well behind some digital effects, which I guess for them is cheaper than having in-betweeners draw out each transformation int he character's movement.
>saber hypes up TG as a sure kill ability if she doesn't stop him before he uses it
>decides to eat 2 of the hits and cut him like a bitch
guess her fears were unnecessary against the blonde super warrior?
Why didn't Caster just use her item construction skill to make Assassin a half decent sword?