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So I'm sure this thread gets made all...
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So I'm sure this thread gets made all the time, but I finally saw all three of the EVA rebuild movies.

I haven't seen the TV series in 10 years, so it's hard for me to directly compare them.

1&2 were what ever, plot went by too fast, and a lot character interaction was missing. Action was nice, I do love EVA battles, CG was kinda jarring sometimes.

And then 3, what a strange direction to go, I don't mind it, but I don't think they pulled it off very well, bad pacing, everyone felt like an idiot, felt like half setup and half filler. My opinion really depends on the 4th movie.

Some random thoughts about 3.
Misato and Ritsuko look ridiculous.
Mari needs to fucking do something
Sakura was out of place.
Crew of the Wunder sucked hard.
If the world is dead, where are Nerve and Wille getting the resources for this shit?
I know Shinji needs to suffer, but that was maybe too much, kinda made him irredeemable in a lot of peoples eyes.
People who think there is a romantic relationship between Asuka and Mari are crazy.
Asuka is still way too hung up on Shinji.
Seems weird that Asuka and Shinji would let Rei 3 follow them.
Robot laser beam eyes.

They really should not have released this movie so far away from 4, because on it's own, it's just so ugh.
>>
Also well it's been awhile, Karl's impact in this movie felt nowhere near as powerful as the TV series.

He's just kinda there, and Shinji isn't really in that bad of a shape, he was just super confused.
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>>117399151
wasnt Q supposed to release at the same time or something
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>>117399252
So says Wikipedia.
They sure are taking their sweet time.

It probably would have worked better as a TV show, but wouldn't make as much money(I think I don't know how Japan works).
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>>117399151
2.0 is as bad as Q and you're delusional if you don't agree with this
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>>117399151
>I dont' mind it
Then you're retarded.

>b-but muh opinion depends on 4
Hello, are you paying attention? It shouldn't depend on 4.

If 3.0 was any good, you'd be absolutely certain 4.0 would be great.

3.0 was a fucking disaster on every single level except pandering to Fujoshi and Kaworufags.
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>>117399363
Go back to Tumblr.
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>>117399151
Everything you thought you knew about Eva's setting and their characters was crushed by 3.0.
So, yeah, it's utter garbage and should be forgotten by all.
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>>117399363
2.0 was great.

Q was garbage.
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>>117399363
I like the idea of the time skip, I just think it was retarded not to include Shinji in it.

Do Karl fans really like it? I don't think they handled him very well.
He was barely a character, but I guess you can say that about everyone that isn't Shinji.
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>>117399151
>Misato and Ritsuko look ridiculous.
Eh, some characters in Eva have always looked a little ridiculous in either outfits or appearance.
>Sakura was out of place.
Cute girls sell. Would've been better if there was a 28 year-old Toji instead.
>Crew of the Wunder sucked hard.
Yup. I'm sure we'll get a time skip series that expands on the new ones though.
>If the world is dead, where are Nerve and Wille getting the resources for this shit?
It's implied that there are still patches of society and safe areas out there. So third impact destroyed most of the world, but not all of it.
>I know Shinji needs to suffer, but that was maybe too much, kinda made him irredeemable in a lot of peoples eyes.
That's kind of the point. He's supposed to be stuck in an utterly irredeemable situation.
>People who think there is a romantic relationship between Asuka and Mari are crazy.
Its in the merchandise and spinoff material like Pachinko. Doesn't help that Mari is a confirmed lesbian after that bonus chapter in the manga either.
>Asuka is still way too hung up on Shinji.
Yes, it signifies she hasn't really grown up at all during the time skip.
>Robot laser beam eyes.
Were in the second movie and it was more dumb there.
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>>117399484
sorry but i have to agree with the other anon, 2.0 was pretty shit, the only good thing was the action, completely changing the type of characters, like asuka, as well as their character development was pretty shit
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>>117399484
i have to agree with you, 3.0 was pretty shit, the only good thing was the action, completely changing the type of characters, like asuka, as well as their character development was pretty shit
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>>117399363
>>117399151
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>>117399728
did you just copypasta
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>>117399151
Delete your thread before Reifags see this
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>Yup. I'm sure we'll get a time skip series that expands on the new ones though.
I hope not, only need a flashback for Misato, it's pretty easy to see why Asuka is like the way she is, and the other characters are just so bland.
>That's kind of the point. He's supposed to be stuck in an utterly irredeemable situation.
I know, I just don't know how he is going to dig himself out of this, since only Asuka and Mari give a shit about him, maybe Misato.
>Its in the merchandise and spinoff material like Pachinko. Doesn't help that Mari is a confirmed lesbian after that bonus chapter in the manga either.
Oh really? A lot, or just tiny hints? In the movie they barely interacted, and if anything Mari was trying to ship Asuka with Shinji.
>Yes, it signifies she hasn't really grown up at all during the time skip.
I wonder if that's poor writing, or part of the curse of eva plot point.
>Were in the second movie and it was more dumb there.
I know, and ya it is dumb, but I can't help but enjoy it.
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>>117399698
>>117399728
I am so confus

Still stand by my statement.

3.0 was garbage.
2.0 was great.

It's all about what it achieves. 2.0 achieves further developing the 1.0 characters, and in a good way, meaning 3.0 is left with good working characters to continue.

It brings in new elements without going overboard, and opens up possibilities for new development.

3.0 on the other hand, achieves only pandering and actually undoes the character development and just gives you cheap, easy peasy pretty girls and boys in return.

3.0+1.0 begins with a shit setting, a shit set of characters, and it's painfully obvious that the writers are just writing their own disgusting fanfiction at this point.
>>
I can't believe people are so dumb that they still can't see that 3.0 is just one giant setup for the fourth movie. Or the fifth.

The time skip shit was all pre-planned so that people could wow at the explanations and plot exposition they get in the next movie.
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>>117399151
>MUUUUH PANDERING
>MUUUUH REI
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>>117399867
>3.0 was garbage.
>2.0 was great.


They were both garbage for different reasons.
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>>117399917
>I can't believe people are so dumb that they still can't see that 3.0 is just one giant setup for the fourth movie. Or the fifth.

I can't see how people are so dumb that they think 3.0 being setup or not actually matters.

If it's setup, it's shit setup so what does it matter?

>The time skip shit was all pre-planned so that people could wow at the explanations and plot exposition they get in the next movie.
In other words, it's garbage.
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>>117399783
no
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3.0 is the best thing to happen to Eva since EoE.
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>>117399363
I can't believe there are retards that do nothing but hate on Q but have no problem with 2.0.

It's fucking mental illness

>>117399364
If you stopped thinking of everything in terms of fucking waifu wars you'd realize there's actually story reasons for Kaworu to be in the fucking movie.
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>>117400002
Only 3.0 was garbage. If you think 2.0 is garbage, then you probably think the first twelve episodes of NGE was garbage too.

2.0 actually did great in developing characters and keeping it from being a rehash. With two movies left the story could have become amazing.

Instead 3.0 only tried to pander and axed all the characters and established setting.

If they were so hype and excited for doing a new setting, then they should make an entirely new franchise and show instead, and do everything from the start instead of forcing it into something that doesn't fit it.
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>>117400084
>If you stopped thinking of everything in terms of fucking waifu wars you'd realize there's actually story reasons for Kaworu to be in the fucking movie.

Actually, you're the one with the waifu wars issue here. Kaworu being in the movie is just pandering, and the so-called story reasons are there to justify the pandering.
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>>117400098
>2.0 did great in developing characters
>If you don't like 2.0 you hate NGE

I can't stop laughing, how can you type that with a straight face?
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EoE isn't canon.
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>>117400098
>then you probably think the first twelve episodes of NGE was garbage too
They weren't garbage, but they definitely weren't amazing, either. They were just setup, really.
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>>117400084
Kaworufag pls.

>you'd realize there's actually story reasons for Kaworu to be in the fucking movie.
Such as?

When are you going to realize that any story reason you come up with are secondary to 3.0 catering to the Kaworu crowd?

The "story reasons" you might have are invented to tie into shipping. That's why 3.0 can spend more time on Kaworu yet come up with less than NGE.

There were never any story reasons for having Kaworu there that didn't equate directly to shipping gaems.
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>>117399856
A lot, she has a crush on Yui and she even confesses
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>>117400010
>I can't see how people are so dumb that they think 3.0 being setup or not actually matters.

Because Anno originally intended for 3.0 and 4.0 to be released simultaneously, with 3.0 acting as the setup and buildup for the finale.

>In other words, it's garbage.
No, it's actually pretty ingenious by making the fans look like a bunch of mindless panderinc-craving autists as usual.
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>>117400131
>a character being in the movie is just pandering
>not because he was highly influential in the series
>the story doesn't matter and only exists to provide reasons to pander

Oh boy.

>>117400144
Don't start with this shit
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>>117400077
This is such bullshit, Rei doesn't stand for that.
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>>117400136
Super-easy.

>>117400159
Which is my point. The guy I'm replying to above seems to be forgetting that rather too conveniently.

The first half of Evangelion is there to set up the various characters as well as the setting. The first 12 episodes does this, and 1.0+2.0 also does this.

Then the glorious second half takes that raw material and makes it into gold.

What 3.0 did was to turn it into shipping commentary and add more actionfest pandering.
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>>117400131
Wait, there are still people who think Kaworu is only there to pander? Do you even know what's Shinji's problem? The hedgehog dilemma?
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>>117400176
I'm not a Kaworufag, I don't waifu any characters in NGE because they're all fucked. Are you implying that any character you don't like getting screen time means that the script was written just to pander to people? I can't even comprehend what you're saying, Kaworu was in the movie to get Shinji to trigger 4th Impact, how is that related to shipping?

>>117400236
You're a fucking retard if you think 2.0 is good.
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>>117400182
>Because Anno originally intended for 3.0 and 4.0 to be released simultaneously, with 3.0 acting as the setup and buildup for the finale.
That's not true. It's something that was said when Rebuild was first announced, and those plans were dropped before 1.0 came out. They had an intial idea that was abandoned long before.

It's also irrelevant because 3.0 was never intended to be shown alongside another movie, it's a full movie.


>No, it's actually pretty ingenious by making the fans look like a bunch of mindless panderinc-craving autists as usual.
Does that include you as well?

Either way you're proving my point, 3.0 only attracts the mindless pandering graving autists instead of setting the standards higher.
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>>117400181
Oh I know about that, and it explains certain things, like her not being a complete dick to Shinji.

But I mean just about Asuka and Mari, not just Mari being a lesbian.
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>>117400239
Kaworufag pls. Don't even try.
That's an issue in NGE, but 3.0 blew that the fuck away.

Kaworu is in Rebuild ONLY to pander. He had a better role in NGE.

NGE is not Rebuild.
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>>117400268
>Kaworu was in the movie to get Shinji to trigger 4th Impact

Nope he was there to give him hope. Only his plan was dumb and Shinji got dumb and he took the spears and Jesus died. Kinda same shit as 2.0. Shinji wants to prove something to Gendo, falls right into Gendo's trap and Rei no matter what Shinji's decision is has to merge with EVA 01.
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>>117400192
Yes she does.
If you want to refute the point, actually come up with a counterargument.

Evangelion is a deconstruction of the mecha genre, along with many other tropes within anime. Rei certainly doesn't represent kawaii uguu shy girl and I highly doubt Anno ever intended for her to be received by fans as such.

And regardless of what she actually represents, that doesn't make the entire interpretation bullshit.

>>117400324
I can't believe I'm actually going to say this, I've always tried to not act like an elitist, but 3.0 was quite literally too deep for you. If you enjoyed 2.0, that was also too deep for you and you've missed the point of the Rebuild series entirely.
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>>117400268
Sure thing. You show too low an understanding of these movies to be worth discussing with.

If you're going to play dumb, you can just refrain from posting ITT. Either get real or think on your own, or get the fuck out.

>>117400239
Kaworu is factually there only to pander to fujoshits in Rebuild. 3.0 proves it by literally throwing away all the characters and the setting to have gay piano scenes.

Kaworu wasn't there to just pander in the original TV-series, but this is a Rebuild 3.0 thread not a NGE thread.
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>>117400410
>I can't believe I'm actually going to say this, I've always tried to not act like an elitist,
I suppose you only pull the "2deep4u card" when you don't have a point and can't argue for it.
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>>117400466

>>117400077
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>>117400378
>understanding Kaworu's role means you're a Kaworufag

I couldn't give less of a shit about him. I just know what he stands for. The hedgehog dilemma is still there in Rebuild. Maybe you should rewatch the movies and pay attention to everything instead on focusing on Mari's tits.
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>>117399856
>I hope not, only need a flashback for Misato,
The theories are that she feels guilty for encouraging Shinji to trigger near-third impact in 2.0, making her part of the cause. There's also the implication that Shinji isn't human but an angel in the rebuilds, and Misato's hatred for angels has left her with conflicting thoughts regarding Shinji.
>I know, I just don't know how he is going to dig himself out of this, since only Asuka and Mari give a shit about him, maybe Misato.
As mentioned, Misato still cares. She just feels conflicted about him. If she didn't care then she wouldn't bother to retrieve Shinji from unit 01 or wouldn't attempt to rush the Wuunder over unit 13 while mumbling about Shinji in such a worried tone of voice.
>Oh really? A lot, or just tiny hints? In the movie they barely interacted, and if anything Mari was trying to ship Asuka with Shinji.
Straight-up love blush and nervous love confession to Yui in the manga. Doesn't get any gayer than that.
>I wonder if that's poor writing, or part of the curse of eva plot point.
More like we just don't know what happened. For all we know she could've been in a coma for years on account of her angel contamination.
>I know, and ya it is dumb, but I can't help but enjoy it.
So things are acceptable as long as they pander to you? This is why so many people fell for the trap that was 2.0+3.0.
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>>117400236
But you're saying 2.0 was great, while I'm saying it was just okay. Great for setup, but not inherently great.
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>>117400432
>Kaworu wasn't there to just pander in the original series

It's funny to me that you're so rabidly against him being in Rebuild, and you don't realize that the majority of Karl's screentime in NGE was spent either naked or doing homo stuff with Shinji.

>muh gay pianos
You're forgetting that scene is trying to show synchronicity between them.
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>>117400410
Pretentious ignorant fuckwad detected.
Not him, but you don't have an argument yourself either.

I suspect you're a retarded troll who just pretends to be smart about fucking anime. You got to be pretty desperate if this is the only way you can feel good.
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>>117400494
>I couldn't give less of a shit about him. I just know what he stands for.
No you don't. That's why you get blown the fuck out in this argument and can't reply properly.

>rewatch it
>pay attention
are not substitutes for actual arguments.
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>>117400504
>The theories are that she feels guilty for encouraging Shinji to trigger near-third impact in 2.0, making her part of the cause.

If I hear one more person say that they didn't like Rebuild because "everyone was a dick to Shinji", I'm going to lose my mind. So many people don't pick up on this shit.
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Mari is such a shit character. I hope Anno fixes that in 4.0z
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>>117399571
>So third impact destroyed most of the world, but not all of it.
However, Third Impact was aborted in the end of second movie, though...
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>>117400332
Asuka and Mari has been on the same spot as it ever was, it is there as a partners thing. Those two piloting together has been a project since 2.0 and will happen in final (8+2), all this however don't mean romance of any sort, what happens is that /u/ sees any sort of friendship as a chance of romance
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>>117400521
>It's funny to me that you're so rabidly against him being in Rebuild, and you don't realize that the majority of Karl's screentime in NGE was spent either naked or doing homo stuff with Shinji.

It's not funny to me that you're this goddamned stupid. You think the homo stuff is what makes for fujoshi pandering?

Rebuild 3.0 makes up one quarter of Rebuild, whereas episode 24 makes up one twenty sixth.

In NGE, everything that leads up to Kaworu arriving comes naturally, and Shinji is also built up along with everyone else. Kaworu isn't a good character in himself but he's a good plot device for what the show wants to convey.

In Rebuild 3.0, that's no longer the case. Because with 3.0, they remove all of the previous buildup in an offscreen timeskip, and make the most contrived marathon-run to get to the piano scenes ever.

Fujoshi pandering isn't about having homo stuff. It's about rewriting the entire scenario to have it feature the possibility of homo stuff, to write a sappy love story in the backdrop.

Showing it is actually bad, because you need to just imply it, then the fujoshi audience does the rest.
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>>117400432
>Kaworu is factually there only to pander to fujoshits in Rebuild.

Fujoshi pandering aside, he's there to provide hope and love to Shinji and then take it away through his death, leading to the discovery of self-acceptance and learning to understand others. You have to be pretty stupid or a spiteful and hardcore autistic waifu fag to deny it otherwise.
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>>117400492
That image is a fucking load of shit.

You either make your own arguments, or you stay quiet.
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>>117400522
If he wants to refute a point, he should present a counterargument. As it stands he's just throwing a point at another point.

Please try to avoid using ad hominem. It just makes you look like an idiot.

>>117400694
That image does a perfectly good job of summing up my thoughts, why would I spend time typing all of that up in my own words when it's perfectly cohesive as it is?

Also refute it, or you stay quiet.
>>
The best thing to come out of the Rebuilds is Ramiel's rework with the neat forms and sounds and shit.

I'd say prove me wrong, but it's fact.
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>>117400616
Why is she a shit character? I swear to god if you say "pandering" one more time. She's not a shit character just because we don't know anything about her, and with the recent developments of the manga, she's looking to be one of the most interesting parts of Rebuild.

>>117400647
>Partners
I have no idea why people think there's a LMA thing going on. They've just been piloting together for a decade

>>117400663
>anything that is not written exactly how I want it is pandering

Judging by your autism, I'm going to assume you're an Asukafag. You saying that the entire scenario was rewritten just for the piano scenes is fucking retarded, because that's just not true. Shinji and Karl weren't any more gay in Q than they were in NGE, pal. Same shit, with Karl saying he loves Shinji and Shinji blushing. It wasn't a love story, it's the same shit we've known for decades. Shinji has trouble getting close to people, and Karl helps him open up and then dies.
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>muh Rei
>muh autism
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>>117400775
Forgot pic
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>>117400762
You sound like a kid who doesn't want to be told that he was wrong. I don't even care whether or not you are right, that's just what you seem like.
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>>117400804
REI Q IS PERFECTLY FINE
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>>117400762
>That image does a perfectly good job of summing up my thoughts, why would I spend time typing all of that up in my own words when it's perfectly cohesive as it is?

Because it's not cohesive, and you have not even shown any sort of argument. You make it, or get out.
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>>117400762
I'll refute it only because I used to believe it

Anno doesn't hate otaku, he's said this many times before.

>>117400814
Honestly, one of my least favorite parts of Rebuild.
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>>117400804
>Kaworufags trying to buddy up with Asukafags
Fuck off and die.
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>>117400804
AYANAMI YUI IS PERFECTLY FINE
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>>117400804
REI Q PERFECTLY FINE
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>>117400647
The double-entry eva plot point is basically meant to symbolize the concept of soul mates. You know, the biblical case of two coming together to become one and all of that. Not to mention they called her the female equivalent of Kaworu; you just know that means regarding love interests down the line.
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>>117400868
>Anyone who doesn't go out of their way to shit on the other characters and use the people who like them as boogeymen need to die

Look, pal, I like Rei, but you fucking retards are way too blinded by your autism to see that there are other characters worth discussing.
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>>117399151
3.0 was some weird ass filler. Nothing really happened other than another impact and we got that in 2.0 already. All the characters were shit too.
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>>117400788
>You saying that the entire scenario was rewritten just for the piano scenes is fucking retarded, because that's just not true.
Search your feelings, you know it is true!

Come down to the earth where the rest of us live. THINK about what happened.

2.0 ends with Rei and Shinji in EVA01, lots of character development ready, and potential for drama.
3.0 whisked that all away, in a timeskip. Then it spends minimal time without developing characters and just forcing them to move the plot along, so that we can eventually arive to gay piano.

Everything was changed so that it would lead Shinji to gay piano. This is a fact you can't look away from.

Shinji could have sucked a million dicks in NGE and it'd be less fujoshi pandering. You over-generalizing and ignoring the reality is evidence that you're just trying to run away.

Your obsession with kaworu loving shinji or vice versa just shows you're a fujoshit defending your fujoshit movie.
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So wait is Shinji still human? Are any of the pilots?
I figure he would have the curse of eva?
The red eyes during awakening were not exactly normal, but either is what happens to Mari during beast mode.

I wonder how fucked up Asuka is under that plug suit.
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>>117400949
Not him but just look at how pathetic some fans are. That includes you. If the only way you can enjoy yourself or the source material is by shitting on others, then you have a problem.
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Eva threads are pure shitflinging.
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>>117401013
She probably has a scar like Misato or something.
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>>117400788
First and foremost, its /u/, two girls saying hi to each other on the street is enough for it to be considered a long lasting lesbian love.
Then, Khara did play with it a bit specially in merchandising, it was a simple strategy to protect Mari from shipper's backlash due to the possibility of her being a love rival to the girls/boy who liked Shinji
Finally, the /u/ shit writes itself, experienced yet playful older girl along with a younger tsundere is a liked pairing.

>>117400934
That comment about Mari being basically a female Kaworu could mean a lot of shit. I thinks its just there to say that she is a "older girl" who knows about stuff and has her own agenda
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>>117400979
Not him but episode 24 was a billion times gayer than Rebuild considering both Kaworu and Shinji actually confessed their love to each other rather than just petty subtext.
Also the gay piano scenes were less than 5 minutes in total, not the whole movie you autistic retard.
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>>117400934
Fuck off, you retarded yurifag.

>>117400979
>lots of character development
>potential
>2.0

Thanks for the laugh. You do realize that 3.0 is supposed to make you feel out of place, right? Name one character that needed to be developed, because you see most of them for less than 15 minutes. You're thinking like originally Q was supposed to be Gurren Laggan-vangelion like it was in 2.0, but they changed it at the last second for the piano scenes. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there's some fucking conspiracy. The only one who has an obsession with fujoshit is you, friend. I don't think Karl and Shinji are gay at all, but you're deciding to run around and scream that they are and that the movie only exists for "pandering" without being able to look past it.

>>117401141
>That comment about Mari being basically a female Kaworu could mean a lot of shit. I thinks its just there to say that she is a "older girl" who knows about stuff and has her own agenda

The people using that as an argument for her being a dyke are probably the same retards saying that Kaworu and Shinji are gay.
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>>117401015
>Not him but just look at how pathetic some fans are. That includes you. If the only way you can enjoy yourself or the source material is by shitting on others, then you have a problem.
You just described Reifags and some Asukafags to a T, good job.
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>>117400788
I don't think you understand what you're talking about. It's true that Asuka and Mari doesn't have much of a relationship to speak of. But you don't understand yurifags, or the fujoshi (I'll get to that part later).

You see, yurifags or asukafags/marifags don't exist because they've found this interesting or deep relationship or characters. They exist because Asuka and Mari allows them to fantasize freely.
This is the situation 3.0 sets up for anime fans. It gives them 14 years of blankness along the implication that the two are partners and have a unspecified but close enough relationship.

All that is left for them is to do the math, and they do. If they had a good character and a relationship, they wouldn't be interesting.

Kaworu and Shinji are the same. Kaworu is never a good character because that would remove the fujoshi's ability to fanwank and fantasize. That's why creating a looping scenario with tons of romance imagery is the pandering. The loops and everything in the movie INCLUDING Kaworu's death exists for that purpose.
>>
>>117401167
It's not about how gay it is you fucking idiot. It's about how it happens and why. There's is nothing wrong with homosexuality, but the way it occurs in Rebuild is super contrived and forced like everything else in it.
>>
>>117401013
>So wait is Shinji still human?
All evidence suggests that he was never really human to begin with.
>Are any of the pilots?
Not really. It's pretty much confirmed that they aren't when Shinji, Asuka and Rei are capable of surviving in that anti-lilin wasteland, with Asuka suggesting that the three of them need to find a habitable zone in order for the lilin to pick them up. Mari and Asuka are mostly human, but with some slight differences like immortality thanks to curse of Eva as well as Asuka's angel contamination. Shinji, Rei and Kaworu are on another level.
>The red eyes during awakening were not exactly normal,
He is a confirmed impact-trigger and his awakenings were written and foretold in the dead sea scrolls. That's a dead giveaway that he was never human.

>I wonder how fucked up Asuka is under that plug suit.
I think you mean the eye patch. Which contains the same angel-sealing hex glyphs that Shinji had programmed into his choker.
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>>117401167
>Not him but episode 24 was a billion times gayer
Just stop. Nobody cares. It's not about how gay it was. Read my post again and you'll see why.
You can't defend this.

>>117401203
>Name one character that needed to be developed,
Every single one of them that contributes to the plot. That's Asuka, Mari, Misato, Ritsuko, everyone he meets within the first minutes.

You're now calling it a conspiracy, which means you're trying to discredit it instead of understanding it. You're afraid that it's true, and your denial can't last forever anon.

I gave you very objective proof that you can't deny, and now you're stuck in it.
>>
>>117401234
It isn't pandering, it's just Anno doing what he wants to do, which is a Kawoshin love story.
>>
>>117401316
>the 5 minutes it occurs in 3.0 is super contrived and forced and ruins the whole movie
Yeah, okay.
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>>117401338
...well, that would constitute pandering..... Kawoshin pandering in specific.

If the rest of the Kaworufags could accept that bit, and stop pretending 3.0 isnt' what it is, then we could actually move on.
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>>117401375
Who said it ruined the whole movie landwhale? It was part of what made the movie mediocre.
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>>117401385
Then by that logic everything in 2.0 is pandering as well. The Mari boob shots, Asuka's plugsuit, and Pokapoka Rei.
It's either both movies are shit or neither of them are because they both pander in equal amounts. The only reason you excuse the former and not the latter is because it isn't pandering to you this time.
>>
>>117401203
>>117401167
It's really tiresome participating in these threads because of people like you. The autistic Kaworufan or 3.0-fan that just won't accept what 3.0 objectively is, and keeps playing coy the entire thread.

You're basing your arguments and position on the pretense of not understanding 3.0, it's audience or what panderings to various fanbases mean.

You haven't seen one anon ITT saying that it's "too gay", and that's one dumb red herring you use.

Anyone who is not insane can understand what just happened with 3.0. We went from 2.0 to 3.0, and in one grand move killed of everything that would get in the way of gay piano.

Every character change, setting change and so on is made explicitly to get Shinij to Kaworu and the piano. That's why there's a timeskip to excuse all those changes.

It's why Misato acts retarded. It's why Asuka is still alive as a confrontational bitch. It's why Rei is mysteriously gone. It's why Shinji is removed from the Wunder and placed next to Kaworu in a matter of minutes.

It's why Shinji tries literally everything else, and has to go to Kaworu as the last option he has.

That's contrived. It really hurts discussion that you won't try to understand 3.0.
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>>117401475
Not him, but yeas they are both full of pandering. Neither were good, at least in the context of Eva.
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>>117401385
NGE was about childhood to adolescence and all of the awkward shit it brings regarding self discovery, sexuality and communication with others.

Rebuild is about the transcendence into adulthood. That includes the increased focus on responsibilities and all of the soulmate, equal-standing shit between Kaworu and Shinji.
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>>117401324
>I think you mean the eye patch. Which contains the same angel-sealing hex glyphs that Shinji had programmed into his choker.

No, I meant her body, I imagine she has pretty serious scars after that incident, I assume that's why she is always wearing her plug suit.
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>>117401420
You fags keep saying the only movie was set up for gay pianos, it was only meant to pander to fujoshi, yet the actual scene in question is under 5 minutes. Keep in mind the Wunder scene takes up almost half of the movie, if they were pandering to fujoshi I'm sure they would've cut that out.
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>>117401540
>It's really tiresome participating in these threads because of people like you. The autistic Kaworufan or 3.0-fan that just won't accept what 3.0 objectively is, and keeps playing coy the entire thread.

Same goes for you too buddy. Can't have one thoughtful or regular 3.0 thread without faggots like you shitting it up.
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>>117401475
>Then by that logic everything in 2.0 is pandering as well. The Mari boob shots, Asuka's plugsuit, and Pokapoka Rei.
No, not by that logic.
Because you can see, it's not about the presence of fanservice in the form of sexy imagery. 3.0 has that too aplenty, as well as 1.0.

The pandering in question relates more to the plot movements and the analysis of it, as well as the results it gives. 2.0 gets fanservicey but doesn't exceed the fanservice in the original first half.
It also bases every single one of it's pot movements on plausible developments within characters that are well founded before they happen. That's what NGE did.

You're half-accepting I'm right, because you just accepted that 3.0 was pandering. What you're trying to do now is excuse yourself for liking 3.0 by saying "you're just as bad".

Come on don't do this.
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>>117401576
Ironic how they were trying to pander to fujoshi but the Kaworu scenes ended up being otaku/normalfags pandering as well.
>>
>>117400825
Nobody likes being told that they're wrong, but I'll gladly admit it if somebody actually supports their points instead of just essentially saying "Nuh uh!!!"

>>117400861
You don't need to hate your audience, but you can still hate the way your work was received.
If I put a ton of work into a novel and gave it to a friend to read, and they completely missed the point of the novel, I wouldn't dislike them for missing it. I'd certainly dislike the fact that they'd missed the point.
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>>117401576
It's not just the piano scene, you retard. It's all leading up to Kaworu. The whole movie is fujoshi pandering Kaworu everywhere shit.
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>>117401540
You don't need anyone gone to have gay piano, but since almost everyone was gone in episode 23-24, everyone must be gone in its Rebuild equivalent.
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>>117401616
We do have them until you start getting made that "OMG U CANT NOT LIKE MUH KAWOSHIN MUH MOVIE".

Notice how we were discussing it fine until you arrived.
>>
>>117401327
>You're calling it a conspiracy

I'm actually doing the opposite of that.

Asuka, Mari, Misato, and Ritsuko all had hints to show what had happened during the timeskip, retard. The story is about Shinji not knowing what the fuck is going on, and being lost in an unfamiliar place. They'll all get their development in 3.0+1.0. Q was strictly focused on Shinji.

>>117401540
>I won't try to understand 3.0
>He thinks Misato and Asuka acting how they do is out of place or weird

Misato's just a tiny bit conflicted about the fact that she pushed Shinji into starting 3rd Impact, which is exactly what she joined NERV to avoid happening. Asuka is a confrontational bitch, because Shinji just fucking left her for 14 years, and she had no closure other than "He and Rei left together"

Rei is mysteriously gone because of what happened in your precious 2.0, friend. I really think you're forgetting how long it was before you even SEE Karl, and how fast it was in the time between him being introduced and dying.
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>>117401552
>NGE was about childhood to adolescence and all of the awkward shit it brings regarding self discovery, sexuality and communication with others.
>Rebuild is about the transcendence into adulthood. That includes the increased focus on responsibilities and all of the soulmate, equal-standing shit between Kaworu and Shinji.

None of that is actually true though. It doesn't fit with what 3.0 actually does.

>>117401687
>You don't need anyone gone to have gay piano, but since almost everyone was gone in episode 23-24, everyone must be gone in its Rebuild equivalent.

That's self-contradicting. You're saying that everyone MUST be gone in it's Rebuild equivalent, yet that you don't need to do so.

Everyone wasn't gone in NGE, they were still there. Rebuild actually physically separates people, imprisons them or kills them while also abandoning their characters, and making narrative statements why they should be forgotten.

If you have to remove everyone to get to a fanservicey Piano section, common logic dictates you shouldn't remove everyone. If you can't get there logically or without sacrificing anything, don't do it.
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>>117401771
Do you really think 10 minutes at the most of piano shit was pandering? It was there to show Shinji and Karl becoming in synch with each other so that they could pilot the Eva
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>>117401770
>I'm actually doing the opposite of that.
You're belittling it as a conspiracy. Don't leave out the rest of the sentence.
I'm still right.

>Asuka, Mari, Misato, and Ritsuko all had hints to show what had happened during the timeskip, retard.
No. There are no hints except marginally changed haircuts. You're suggesting fanwank to make up for stuff 3.0 should have had.

You're also placing the responsibility of what 3.0 failed to do no the next movie. Q was focused on kaworu and shinji, neglegcting everything else.

Kaworufag, stop running away from the truth. You mustn't run away. You can't prove yourself right because even YOU know you're wrong. That's why all of your counterarguments will be destroyed, because they're just excuses you made for yourself.
>>
After the Karl and Shinji quality time in 3.0, I hope Shinji gets to finally sit down and talk with Asuka and find out what happened.

Maybe she can snap him out of his depression, I don't want a repeat of EoE, this shit is new, let Shinji get passed it.

They are going to be walking around in a desert for awhile, let them finally have a few scenes together, so Asuka can chill out.

Rei Q can just sit back and be awkward.
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>>117401663
>gets called out by stating that the piano scene literally 5 minutes long

"...W-well it's still pandering shit b-because it's all leading up to that piano scene! Even those stupid and long battle scenes that show off the other characters it's all pandering to yaoi shit I swear!"

You faggots just don't like the fact that one of the love interests is gay despite it being essential to the protagonist's development and the theme of the hedgehog's dilemma. Fuck, you people could barely even handle episode 24 for years because of it.
>>
>>117401639
>plausible developments
Yeah, Asuka solving all her problems in a 30 second phone conversation is really true to SE.

>because you just accepted that 3.0 was pandering
Now you're just putting words in my mouth. 3.0 is Anno making a movie that he wanted to make, all the 'gay piano' shit included. I doubt what the audience wanted had little to no influence on his desire to make 3.0 the way he wanted to.
Look back into my previous posts, in which of them did I say 3.0 is good? That I liked it? I think Rebuild is shit in general, with 2.0 being the shittiest. However out of the three movies, I will admit 3.0 is the most like Eva (Excluding the shitty and rushed rehash that was 1.0), and therefore I will defend it against autistic Reifags like yourself. Sorry that Anno isn't pandering to your version of Eva, but that's life. Deal with it.
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>>117401825
You're making a mistake in taking him literally, it's not the gay piano scenes alone. It's the scenario 3.0 puts them in, the gay piano scene is merely the cliche thing they did to appeal to fujoshi extremely overtly.

All alone at NERV, a romantic setting, and then adding in a plot about loops and how Kaworu always tries to help and love Shinji. It's pretty much like a fanfic.

Why do you think the plot requires Shinji and Karl to synch? Because that sounds romantic and it means they're made for each other since they can synch. They cannibalized the dancing training to defeat Israfel and turned into "sweet music" for Kaworu and Shinji.

How does piano make them synch anyway? It makes no sense, but it's kind of romantic.
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>>117401825
The 10 minutes is only the part-way climax. The movie can't start with it, it had to get there, and it used cheap methods that destroyed everything else to do so.

The syncing thing is also kawoshin-related. Yes, Anno and 3.0 just made up an entirely new EVA that ONLY the two could pilot. The plot and the mechanics has now become a slave to the pandering. EVA's are made, characters are change, everything to help the pandering.

Everyone sees this except you.

>>117401946
Fujoshi pls. Stop rationalizing. Stop pretending it's not as bad as it is.

You're actually taking it literally instead of reading what I'm saying, see above.
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>>117401771
> Rebuild actually physically separates people, imprisons them or kills them while also abandoning their characters,

You're implying as if this didn't happen in the anime. Which it did.
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>>117401771
>Everyone wasn't gone in NGE
Heh.
>Asuka in a coma
>Misato so scary!
>Rei 2 died, new Rei here doesn't remember shit
>Kensuke and Toji moved away
Nigga you're high.
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>>117401964
>Yeah, Asuka solving all her problems in a 30 second phone conversation is really true to SE.
Being true to SE is not the same as being plausible. Notice how you had to bring up a red herring to counter me. You can't do this.

The developments are all plausible for the characters as they are characterized in the movie. The 30 second phonecall is plausible due to the previous development in the movie.

As for the rest you're just plain wrong. You keep defending the movie on false reasoning, that you only want to do it because of fanbase politics. Your'e making up enemies and neglecting understanding a movie, and thus creating conflict where there doens't need to be.

Just because your fan pride is hurt or something?

You've gone as far as defending it as "it's what anno wanted to make, you can't criticize". Just snap out of it.
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>>117401907
>Asuka and Shinji talking about his feelings

He actually does these things with Kaworu.
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>>117401876
>There are no hints

Yeah, I forgot that there wasn't actually a movie before Q showing what happened. Like I said, "Misato's just a tiny bit conflicted about the fact that she pushed Shinji into starting 3rd Impact, which is exactly what she joined NERV to avoid happening. Asuka is a confrontational bitch, because Shinji just fucking left her for 14 years, and she had no closure other than "He and Rei left together"" was all shown to have happened in 2.0. If you choose to ignore it, go ahead. Don't use it as an excuse to show how misinformed you are and expect me to take you seriously.

>>117401977
You know, out of almost EVERYONE I can think of, Anno is the last person to let fucking fujoshits and waifufags dictate how the movie is written. I don't see it as gay, but if you do, maybe things would be different for you. You thinking it's like a fanfic says more about you than about Anno's intentions.

>how does piano make them sync anyway?
Like you said, it's a condensed version of Asuka and Shinji's dancing in NGE, because they didn't want to spend 20 minutes on it. The piano scenes are actually shorter than Asuka and Shinji's training, and yet people still go fucking insane over them being in the movie.

>>117402090
Explain what you think "pandering" is, because you're using it as a blanket term for "anything I don't like was deliberately put in the script by Anno to appeal to fujoshits"
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>>117402123
>You're implying as if this didn't happen in the anime. Which it did.
It didn't. Where's the timeskip? The imprisonment, the killings?
Not in the anime, that's for sure. Their characters are not abandoned either.

>>117402131
No you're high. Look at what happened to those characters. They're still there, physically and as developing characters.
3.0 inserted inself into a place where it was far too early, and then ruined the characters.
NGE made them better.

That's the big difference. It also didn't spend a whole quarter on kawoshin. Check mate faget.
>>
But seriously, I really hope 3.0+1.0 isn't just Shinji sulking the entire movie, and everyone else doing shit.

This is an action movie now, not a character study, let Shinji grow up.
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>>117401977
>All alone at NERV, a romantic setting, and then adding in a plot about loops and how Kaworu always tries to help and love Shinji. It's pretty much like a fanfic.

A ruined NERV within a dead wasteland is a romantic setting? AHAHAHAHAHA what the hell?

Also he wasn't alone at the start of the movie, he was with Wille. He had the chance to stay a little longer to get more explanations from Misato and others, but he didn't. He just couldn't accept that they wary of him and his influence as an impact trigger, to say the least.
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>>117402296
You're the worst part of the fanbase, worse than the fujoshits.

>Shinji's a pussy
>Yeah put in more big robot battles fuck the story let him become Simon
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>>117402214
I think >>117401234
had a good explanation.

Generally when the script lacks substance and does not bother with developing the characters, it's pandering. That's 3.0 in a nutshell.

What separates 1.0 and 2.0 from 3.0, is that the previous two keeps it's large cast of characters intact and developing. But 3.0 drops all of them and focuses on a single thing without developing it properly, making it pandering.
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>>117402288
I'm sorry to spoil NGE for you, seeing as how you haven't seen it, but a lot of fucking characters were killed in the anime.
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>>117402329
>A ruined NERV within a dead wasteland is a romantic setting? AHAHAHAHAHA what the hell?
Yes, it is. Don't play stupid. Take a look at the piano scene.

>Also he wasn't alone at the start of the movie, he was with Wille. He had the chance to stay a little longer to get more explanations from Misato and others, but he didn't.
Now that's a joke. They are literally trying to kill him and threatening him.

Don't you realize the characters were changed to be hostile fucknuggets so that he'd buzz off?

Stop playing stupid.
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>>117402369
>I'm sorry to spoil NGE for you, seeing as how you haven't seen it, but a lot of fucking characters were killed in the anime.
I've seen it retard. Try again.
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>>117402334
That was what 2.0 though. You know, the same movie you claimed had NGE elements and was great. Yeah, that's that kind of shit. Not that 3.0 is any better but you need to stop being such an hypocrite.
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>>117402334
We already had NGE and EoE for that.

I don't mind him taking some time out to get him self together, but he should do it quick.
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>>117402296
I think what we need the most is Shinji interacting with the characters, we need him having meaningful interaction with Asuka, Rei Q, Mari and Misato to have the last movie even standing a chance of not being complete garbage
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>>117402214
>Like I said, "Misato's just a tiny bit conflicted about the fact that she pushed Shinji into starting 3rd Impact, which is exactly what she joined NERV to avoid happening.
Which she takes out on Shinji, something that again makes no sense. It's also entirely your fanwank as opposed to something detailed or developed in the film.

No point for you.

>Asuka is a confrontational bitch, because Shinji just fucking left her for 14 years, and she had no closure other than "He and Rei left together"" was all shown to have happened in 2.0
Which implies that in those 14 years, there was no change or significant growth to the character. So the entire character is literally about some boy she met and the butthurt she had for 14 whole years. That's extremely shitty and again, there is no development in the movie or elaboration on this.

It's a one-note character for no reason.

>. If you choose to ignore it, go ahead. Don't use it as an excuse to show how misinformed you are and expect me to take you seriously.
Your fanwank, even if it was canon and actually in the movie, would still be the exact same poor shit that constitutes contrived writing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_plot
Read this.

That's what 3.0 turned Rebuild into, and for the sake of kawoshin pandering. It's not good writing.
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>>117402288
I have a strong feeling it won't be Asuka doing most of the explanations. It's either going to be Misato or Kaji, assuming that he's still alive.

Asuka's eventually going to feel guilt regarding her treatment of Shinji and will come to the conclusion that she's just as immature and closed of as he is.
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>>117402363
But it's focusing on a single thing in order to set up the next movie. Q is just one chunk of the story that's out of context, and hopefully we'll be given context in FINAL. I have a different definition of pandering, I guess.

>>117402396
Wow, you're more delusional than the actual fujoshits. Every character had a reason to be that way, dumbass. They weren't completely fucking rewritten just so the piano scenes could happen. It's funny to me that you're so blinded by rage at the piano scenes that you didn't even pay attention to Q at all. I have no idea how you could have come to the conclusion that they were threatening him and trying to kill him. They had CHANCES to kill him and they didn't even do it, you moron.
>>117402448
I'm not him, I hate 2.0.

>>117402529
>Which she takes out on Shinji
She's being cold and distant to him, I don't see how she's "taking it out" on him. She's acting like Gendo.
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>>117402214
>You know, out of almost EVERYONE I can think of, Anno is the last person to let fucking fujoshits and waifufags dictate how the movie is written.
Well, he just did. If you read the interviews, key writers like Tsurumaki are busy being huge waifufags over the script, saying that "because he's an Asuka fan, he won't allow this or this change", and similarly claiming that he's aiming to make his favorite a stronger character.

>I don't see it as gay
It's not about seeing it as "gay", and this tired argument you keep making is just proof that you've lost at this point.

>Like you said, it's a condensed version of Asuka and Shinji's dancing in NGE, because they didn't want to spend 20 minutes on it.
Now you're avoiding that they gave it to Kaworu, and forced it into a part of the story where it doesnt' need to be. They needed it in the original because they couldn't do it otherwise, they tried. Not in Rebuild, it's the first order of the day.

You are just a kaworufan defending your husbando. That's it.

That's why nobody else but kaworufans will take you seriously.
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>>117402520
I agree with this, he really needs to talk with Asuka and Misato.

I don't really know about Rei Q though, I feel like she doesn't really need to be part of the story.
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>>117402396
>They are literally trying to kill him and threatening him.

No, they are threatening him with death, not trying to kill him. Those are two very different things.
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>>117402596
>She's being cold and distant to him, I don't see how she's "taking it out" on him. She's acting like Gendo.
Which is the exact same as taking it out on him. She's not acting like Gendo in the slightest.

can you admit being wrong now?
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>>117402633
Reifag pls
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>>117402642
>No, they are threatening him with death, not trying to kill him. Those are two very different things.
They tried to kill him in the end, but failed. Couldn't pull the trigger.

At first they threaten him over and over, then when Misato tries, she fails due to a contrived burst of emotions at the right time.
Otherwise the movie would be over.

>>117402596
>Wow, you're more delusional than the actual fujoshits. Every character had a reason to be that way, dumbass. They weren't completely fucking rewritten just so the piano scenes could happen.
Yes, they were. It's sad that you don't see it. Very sad, you must be exceptionally stupid or dense.

Notice how there is no development or reason showcased in the movie for that whatsoever.
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>>117402596
>But it's focusing on a single thing in order to set up the next movie. Q is just one chunk of the story that's out of context, and hopefully we'll be given context in FINAL. I have a different definition of pandering, I guess.
You have the wrong definition of pandering, and the wrong understanding of this movie.

You're merely postponing your conclusion to a point in time where it will no longer be valid or of importance.

It's focusing on a single thing not to set up the previous movie, but to pander. This is proven by how it abandoned two whole movies of existing setup, because otherwise they wuoldn't be able to pander at all.

It wasn't realistic that Kaworu and Shinji would be put together after 2.0. That's why you need drastic measures like what happened with 3.0.
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>>117402736
>Notice how there is no development or reason showcased in the movie for that whatsoever.

Literally a delusional and enraged autist.

It was there to strengthen their bond while foreshadowing the synchronisation methods for eva 13.
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I hate loving Eva so much. I hate that it associates me with all of the bickering waifufaggots and retards who can't properly comprehend the messages conveyed in both the original series and the Rebuild movies.
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>>117402634
Well, the problem is that she is there already, you can't undo her so they need to at least try to fix it.
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>>117402596
>She's being cold and distant to him, I don't see how she's "taking it out" on him. She's acting like Gendo.
Not him but now you're reaching.

If your fanwank idea that she's angry about all that is true, then she'd be treating Shinji normally. But since she acts cold and distance, ignores his questions and is constantly passive-aggressive, there's no doubt she's taking it out on Shinji.

Much like everyone else does.
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>>117402213
Ya, but Asuka needs it now as well, she needs some closure, and Shinji needs to realize she doesn't hate him, she is just incredible frustrated with his actions.

But for this to happen, either Asuka needs realize how bad he currently is, or he needs to show some initiative and confront her about it.
Wonder which one will fold first.
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>>117402824
Literally a delusional and enraged autist. Go hug your kawoshin doujinpile over at /cm/.

>>>/cm/
>>
>>117402898
Not that anon you're responding to, but

>wears glasses to hide her emotions
>now acts cold and distant with fellow NERV operators and co-workers
>Shinji now aiming for Misato's approval instead of Gendo's approval

She's basically the new Gendo.
>>
>>117400159

That's that delusional Reifag.
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>>117402824
Well, are you so obtuse that you can't see that EVA13 is specifically designed to have Kaworu and Shinji together?
EVA13 is an unprecedented EVA that requires to people to pilot it. It was literally made for having two people together.

EVA13, it's synchronization method, everything about it is made to pander Kawoshin. Why on earth would you make a super-technological Evangelion unit that SOMEHOW required that it's pilots became piano maestros within a single montage?

Logically, or even from an engineering perspective the idea makes one want to kill themselves because of how stupid it is.There is one PoV and one PoV only it makes sense, and that was if someone at one time thought:

"It would be nice if we could have Kaworu and Shinji together, maybe center it around music because Kaworu likes music, and then have them train together and play piano".

In other words, it's Kawohin pandering.
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>>117402939
You've now reached a point where you can't defend your opinions with evidence anymore. Damn, this Reifag is beyond mad.
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>>117402633
>forced it into a part of the story where it doesn't need to be

But who decides that? I'm just confused by what you mean.

Again, I'm not a fucking kaworufag, or a reifag, or an asukafag.

>>117402681
Are you serious? Misato's role has shifted to Gendo's, that's why she's always standing above Shinji and her eyes are covered. I don't know how you can honestly think that Misato ignoring Shinji while they're in the middle of a crisis is "taking it out on him"

Were you abused as a child?

>>117402736
Again, if that's your issue, it would be the result of 2.0. Characters tend to change over 14 years, so I don't know what you want. They aren't the focus of Q, Shinji is. They were the focus of 2.0. You're claiming that Karl and Shinji had no reason to have any scenes together, when the plot of the movie revolved around Shinji triggering another impact. You're literally saying that because the movie centers around the interactions with a character you don;t like, it's pandering. I'm assuming you're a reifag, because no one else gets so defensive. You're forgetting, I'm not arguing that 3.0 was written to heavily involve Karl and Shinji. I'm telling you that something isn't "pandering" just because you don't like it.

>>117402815
If that's the definition you're using, you're forgetting there was as much if not more pandering in 2.0.
>>
>>117403028
>wears glasses to hide her emotions
Gendo doesn't do that. He has problems with eyesight.

>now acts cold and distant with fellow NERV operators and co-workers
Not always the case with Gendo, who is nice with Rei and others. Misato is emotional wheres Gendo isn't.
Saying that a character becomes another is not an argument either.

>Shinji now aiming for Misato's approval instead of Gendo's approval
For Misato's forgiveness, not approval.

At any rate this is pure speculation, fanwank and conjecture that doesn't have anything in the movie to back it up. Except for the notion that you try your hardest to make sense of it.

If that is what you've produced, then Misato is a shit character just like you could initially deduce.
>>
Do these threads always turn into bitch and arguing about Karl?
>>
>>117402898
You know that she just doesn't have the fucking time to bother explaining everything to Shinji, right? The whole intro takes place over like a day at the most. And when they START to explain things to him, Rei shows up and he goes with her.

>>117403028
>>
>>117403100
He doesn't need to when you never did that to begin with.

>>117403138
>But who decides that? I'm just confused by what you mean.
The story itself, more or less. You can objectively claim such a thing. If it doesn't have buildup, it's forced in.
If the sole reason it is allowed to happen is a timeskip, it's forced in.
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I'm just gonna post this picture of rei and leave
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>>117403072
It's a good way to hit two birds with one stone. They need to advance the plot and make Kaworu and Shinji form a bond, so why not do both? How is this pandering just because some fans and Anno himself are entertained with this idea. If Anno had crafted the story to specifically cater to these fans, it would have been pandering and you would have an argument. But Anno made it this way because he wanted to, so no, it isn't pandering.
>>
>>117403163
The point being that Gendo deliberately covers his eyes, you don't see his fucking eyes. Eyes are the windows to the soul, and he blocks them off. Now Misato's doing the same thing, and the first time we see her eyes is after she's confilcted about detonating Shinji's collar.
>>
>>117403193
>You know that she just doesn't have the fucking time to bother explaining everything to Shinji, right?
She had the time, she just spent it on being passive-aggressive instead.
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>>117403164
Yes, this is what the average Reifag does in their spare time.
>>
>>117403138
>Are you serious?
Are you? Misato stands beside Shinji, and below him in select scens. Gendo is always above still.

>I don't know how you can honestly think that Misato ignoring Shinji while they're in the middle of a crisis is "taking it out on him"
You know what, you need help. You're autistic and I feel sorry for you.

You have no capability for emotion or understanding other people. You are outright fucked in the head, and maybe the comment of childhood abuse is best directed at yourself to excuse your behavior.

If you think threatening Shinji on his life, and ignoring him when he's been in a 14-year old coma while taking an aggressive tone is somehow NOT taking it out on him, then you're fucked up. There's no other answer.
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>>117403268
>The point being that Gendo deliberately covers his eyes, you don't see his fucking eyes.
Except you do in both Rebuild and the TV-shows. There's only a few times where you can't see through his glasses and that's because of the lightning. His glasses ARE see-through.

>>117403267
It's pandering because the two birds are just one bird in reality. The entertainment.

>If Anno had crafted the story to specifically cater to these fans, it would have been pandering and you would have an argument. But Anno made it this way because he wanted to, so no, it isn't pandering.
It's pandering in both situations.

Don't you see the big logical error you made? Regardless what he made, he would have wanted ot made it, so by that logic you're saying that nothing he ever did could be considered pandering.

It was pandering to the highest degree.
>>
>>117403164
Yes, and it's mostly from the Reifags. 3.0 hit them really hard and they need a scape goat to vent out their frustrations.
>>
>>117403272
I see you just got off the phone with Anno. They're in the middle of an attack when Shinji wakes up, dipshit. They're not going to put everything on hold just for Shinji, who no longer has a use to them.

>>117403321
>If you think threatening Shinji on his life, and ignoring him when he's been in a 14-year old coma while taking an aggressive tone is somehow NOT taking it out on him, then you're fucked up. There's no other answer.

I don't think you understand what threatening means. They don't plan to kill Shinji, they're letting him know that he's a danger and if they need to they will. The possibility is there, but they're not setting up an execution. Why shouldn't Misato ignore him while she's preoccupied? He no longer has a role. You're the autistic one for confusing a cold, business-like tone with an aggressive, hateful one. Shinji doesn't deserve to have everyone else put the world on hold just to make him feel up to speed, when ultimately he was the reason they're in that situation in the first place.

>>117403413
There needs to be a seperate word to differentiate "Anno making what he wants" and "changing everything to appeal to parts of the fanbase", then. Anno making the story how he wanted to isn't the same as him rewriting everything so that the fujoshits are happy, like some people are implying.
>>
>>117403164
Reifags are so tsundere for Kaworu, it's not even funny.
>>
>>117403164
Only when you have a Kaworufag in the thread. They'll blame Reifags because they can't defend their arguments.
They're just angry that they lose every single time when it comes to defending this movie.

>>117403138
>If that's the definition you're using, you're forgetting there was as much if not more pandering in 2.0.
2.0 didn't abandon 1.0's setting, nor it's characters.
It continued to develop all it's characters as well.

So it's only 3.0 that is pandering.

>>117403193
IIRC she had the time. Misato's first actions are not to greet or explain, it's actually to be dismissive and threatening. The same is true for the other characters.

I'm not sure how good you are with others in a social context, but for people who have been in an accident and wake up in a place they don't know where they are, or what happened, are really delicate people that needs to be handled delicately.
Waking up with a gun pointed at you is in rather poor taste.

Misato (and the others, I'm not blaming just Misato) fails to do that spectacularly.

>>117403321
Don't bother. He's not actually autistic, he's just another fantard who pretends to be stupid so he can defend 3.0. Happens all the time sadly.
>>
>>117403547
>I see you just got off the phone with Anno. They're in the middle of an attack when Shinji wakes up, dipshit. They're not going to put everything on hold just for Shinji, who no longer has a use to them.
They have time prior to the attack, and after the attack. But during the attack and in those moments, they chose to be aggressive and threatening.

Instead of being welcoming and explanatory. You don't need to have a use for someone to do that, really. But even then, they do have a use for him, and consider him an asset.
>>
>>117403138
>Again, if that's your issue, it would be the result of 2.0.
It's the result of 3.0.

Objectively. 3.0 is the movie that makes the changes, not 3.0. The 14 years inbetween don't exist onscreen. Thus 3.0 is giving you the conclusion, without developing or elaborating.

It is pandering, and regardless of the assumptions you make about me, I'm right on this one. The writing of the movie to heavily include Kaworu and Shinji while also writing out everyone else, is pandering.

The piano scenes, the symbolism, even the very poster is pandering.

On the objective level again, not the subjective which you are appealing to, this is pandering. When you take one whole quarter of the series and devotes it to one thing, when that thing was only a fraction of the source it is coming from, it is pandering.

By the way, you're defensive, I'm on the offense. Get that right at least. I could be making a comment about "who would be so defensive", but I won't.
>>
>>117403583
>2.0 didn't have pandering
>forgetting cooking wars
>forgetting Rei becoming a real girl
>forgetting Shinji starting third impact to save rei

Oh man.

>>117403583
>>117403663
You realize that they aren't really happy with Shinji, right? the majority of the people on the ship only know him as "here's the little shit that destroyed the world"

At that point, he's nothing more than a danger, and they don't even know if it's really Shinji, because they make a point to say that he LOOKS like Shinji, but they're still not sure it's the exact same person.

Why would they be welcoming toward him? They have bigger things to focus on. Again, you don't understand what aggressive or threatening mean. You're saying "They aren't putting everything on hold to make sure Shinji is nice and comfortable and up to date on what's happening, that's aggressive! They're letting him know that he's a danger and they can't trust him, they're threatening him!"
>>
>>117403547
>I don't think you understand what threatening means.
You don't. You're just a sad, sad little man who doesn't think pointing a loaded gun at someone's face is threatening.
You don't think telling someone that they will kill them if they do something isn't threatening.

I do feel sorry for you. I don't know what kind of person would lower himself to the level of self-delusion or feigned idiocy you do because he or she can't concede an argument.

You can't ignore what the movie was or did with lies and ignorance anon.
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>>117403926
>You realize that they aren't really happy with Shinji, right? the majority of the people on the ship only know him as "here's the little shit that destroyed the world"
Shouldn't they know better since they're fighting the ACTUAL guys they know destroyed the world, them being NERV and SEELE? Then there's Misato and Ritsuko who should know better, even if I accept your fanwank that they somehow don't.

It's just common sense to bring the person up to speed, even if he's a danger they can learn something by doing so. They risk too much not doing it.

They know he's dangerous when he loses control of his emotions, and so threatening is logically not the way to go if they want to live.

>Why would they be welcoming toward him?
They have everything to gain, and it beats being unwelcoming.
>>
>>117403821
But if Shinji and Rei were together on the poster that wouldn't be pandering at all, right? Grow the fuck up.
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>>117403996
Why?
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>>117399363
My Nigga
>>
Whether or not they had time, they handled the Shinji situation poorly.

They should have known he would be super confused as fuck, and they should have been more sympathetic, even if they had to fake it.
Even if he can't pilot an EVA for them, he is still a valuable asset to them, and should be treated as such.
>>
Fucking Reifags can't give up can they
>>
>>117404048
I think you're the one who needs to grow up. If it was Shinji and Rei, or Shinji and Pen-Pen, it would be pandering as well.

You're just proving that you can't remain objective in this discussion by being defensive over a fucking ship. If you were actually interested in the movie's good sides you wouldn't do that.
>>
>>117404137
Justice never sleeps.
>>
>>117403950
See, you're confusing yourself. They're not giving him actual threats. They're expressing caution towards someone that may or may not be Shinji. Telling someone that they're a danger and you'll kill them if they do something stupid isn't a threat, it's WILLE being cautious. They're a fucking military/guerilla group, they don't have the fucking time to make sure Shinji feels relaxed.

>>117404047
Again, they didn't have the time to. It was "Shinji wakes up, he meets misato, battle battle battle, he meets asuka, Toji's sister starts to tell him why he shouldn't leave, Rei busts in and he goes with her"

Without Shinji deciding to save Rei, nothing would have happened. NERV isn't responsible for Shinji deciding to do that.

>it beats being unwelcoming
You're right, everyone should just be nice to each other.

>>117404136
>he is still a valuable asset to them, and should be treated as such.

Without an Eva, Shinji has no value to them.

>>117404154
We both know that if the poster had Shinji and Rei on it no one would be talking about fucking pandering.
>>
>>117404136
>act like a prick to Shinji
>tell him nothing at all
>Rei comes to rescue him
>WILLIE get butthurt over Shinji choosing to escape

I don't understand the logic.
>>
>>117404196
Do you realize how autistic you look to the rest of the fandom? Stop bitching and get over it already.
>>
>>117403926
Greentext is not a substitute for actual argumentation.

You're also forgetting in the rest of the post that we're discussing Misato in specific. Her not being happy with Shinji makes little sense and contradicts the earlier notion that she blames herself entirely.

But even for the rest of the crew, them not liking Shinji isn't developed in the slightest. You can only assume they do, and that makes this one of those idiots plots:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_plot

The fact is that the situation we're presented with is that WILLE are waking up Shinji. They know he will be confused and dazed as well as vulnerable, and they've literally had 14 years to think about what to say here.

They confirm that his memory really is consistent with a person 14 years out of the loop, and then what do they do? They threaten, verbally abuse and ignore Shinji at every turn. That's not how you bring someone out of a coma. That's how you bring someone out of a coma if you want them to hate you.

Now unless they were having lots of balloons ready and a "SURPRISE GOTCHA" sign waiting they didn't get to show off, they just really really suck ass.
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>>117404090
Because Adam and Lilith belong together! The Bible told me so!
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>>117404209
>We both know that if the poster had Shinji and Rei on it no one would be talking about fucking pandering.
Yes, because everything is a conspiracy against poor, poor Kaworufags am I right?

We both know faggots would explode. You saw how assravaged Asukafags were over 2.0. This would make them go nuclear.
>>
>>117404137
Two years and they still can't get over it and move on.
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>>117404154
>Shinji and Pen-Pen
...how
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>>117404278
Lilith isn't even in the Bible, and in legend they couldn't get along and Lilith went apeshit
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>>117404209
>See, you're confusing yourself. They're not giving him actual threats.
Yeah right. It's a fucking threat you goddamned idiot.

I knew you were autistic.
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>alright
>so there's this girl right
>and she brings me here to NERV or whatever
>has some card with her tits on it, it's rite.
>so I go and my mind blanks out
>wake up in some bed right
>she decides to let me stay with her
>I go have a quick bath right? You know to get over some emotional stuff
>now, you won't believe this
>a penguin
>walks in the door
>>
>>117404260
>Look ma, I posted it again!

>verbally abuse
Give me examples of this, please. WILLE is a scavenger group in an apocalyptic world, they don't really give a shit. Are you forgetting about Toji's sister?

>>117404299
I'm not a fucking Kaworufag, I'm just saying that if it was Asuka or Rei on the poster, it wouldn't cause nearly the amount of asspain that it currently does.
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>>117404209
>Again, they didn't have the time to
Wrong. If they had the time to be aggressive, threatening and abusive, they had the time to be nice and welcoming.

Your entire argument blown the fuck out right there.

also taking the time to respond to the rest because you are sick in the head:
>We both know that if the poster had Shinji and Rei on it no one would be talking about fucking pandering.
Except people were complaining (Asukafags specifically) already during 2.0. They'd complain even louder if 3.0 was about Shinji and Rei.

I'd be complaining as well, and I fucking know you would too because you're just another waifufag who finds it acceptable as it is.
>>
>>117404416
>I'm just saying that if it was Asuka or Rei on the poster, it wouldn't cause nearly the amount of asspain that it currently does.
...and I am, like everyone else not absolutely fucking insane, saying that it would.

Look at yourself. I didn't even say you were a kaworufag and there you are defending yourself anwyay.
>>
Rei is a clone of his mom, their is no relationship in that.

Come on now.
>>
>>117404443
You realize that they weren't being "abusive" just for the sake it, right? They were just brushing him off, by basically telling him to shut up and sit still. I really think you have some deep trauma you need to work through, because if you interpret how they acted toward him as aggressive and abusive, you're a fucking retard.

>>117404485
>Yes, because everything is a conspiracy against poor, poor Kaworufags am I right?

I assumed that was accusatory, my mistake.
>>
>>117404209
>Without an Eva, Shinji has no value to them.
Not him, but that's clearly not true and it can be proven by several facts the show presents.

If Shinji had no value to them, then they would not have woken him.
That's #1.

If Shinji had no value to them, they would not have put a bomb collar on him as that would negate the idea of him having any value at all. The bomb collar is there because Shinji is important to them and thus has value.
That's #2.

If Shinji had no value to them, then Ritsuko would not be aware that Gendo still needed him, hence they have one of Gendo's trump cards.
That's #3.

You can throw in the emotional value as well from the rest, that's another thing.

Either way it doesn't matter, it's all about mitigating risk and actually acting according to their characterization and goals.

As it is, WILLE, Misato and the rest are just puppets for the plot, which is to move them towards Kaworu to pander.
>>
3.0+1.0 WILL have a 3deep100you ending
>>
>>117404643
I'm saying that apart from being a bargaining chip/pawn/whatever, Shinji has no value.
>>
>>117404136
>>117404210

They didn't have time. They got attacked twice while trying to explain everything to him. 0 chance to persuade him to not go with Rei.

Why would they be sympathetic if they blame him for the impact ?
He was completely useless for them.
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>>117404367
Anon-kun pls, Sunday school wouldn't lie to me.
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>>117404722
Don't bother trying to get them to understand common sense, they've deluded themselves into thinking that anyone not being overly nice means that they're abusive.
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>>117404612
No, you're an autistic sad person who doesn't understand other people. It's not only about how you or I interpret their actions,it's about HOW they can be interpreted for another person in Shinij's situation.

It is a basic function of empathy and sympathy to understand that
-brushing people off
-telling them to shut up

will have negative consequences for someone in Shinji's situation.

His reaction proves me absolutely right, he recoils and loses trust in them entirely.

You literally don't have an argument besides "I don't want to see it that way, despite the fact that the movie does.".
>>
>>117404711
That means he does have value. Even as a pawn, bargaining chip/whatever, they're not treating him according to value.

They are turning a pawn over to the enemy before it even gets to the opposite side of the chessboard.

>>117404722
>They didn't have time.
They had time. All they had to do was to spend the time hey used on being aggressive and threatening to explain.

>>117404780
Keep telling yourself that to make yourself feel better.
>>
>>117404783
Nice job at ignoring what I'm arguing. I'm not saying that it won't have any negative connotation, I'm saying that you're a moron for thinking that brushing someone off and telling them to fuck off is being aggressive and abusive.
>>
>>117404899
>I'm saying that you're a moron for thinking that brushing someone off and telling them to fuck off is being aggressive and abusive.
Heh.
>>
>>117404520
They share a platonic bond whereas Asuka and Shinji aren't capable to bond.
>>
>>117404899
>I'm saying that you're a moron for thinking that brushing someone off and telling them to fuck off is being aggressive and abusive.
Hm.

Do you need to to talk to someone anon? Whatever life you're leading now can't possibly be healthy if you sincerely believe this.

>>117404969
They do bond, it just ends poorly for them.
>>
>>117404866
I don't know how this isn't clicking for you. They were being "aggressive" to speed shit up and get him out of the way sooner, because they were in a fucking battle.

>>117404921
Wonderful counterargument.
>>
>>117404643

He woke up himself because Asuka called apparently.

He is just dangerous. That is not a positive value. Its the exact opposite. They can't use him at all other then cause mass death on their own people.

Still has 0 value for them. Its not like they can bargain with him. If Gendo gets him its over.

Emotional value ? To whom ? Maaaaybe Asuka but she would never openly state that.

Their goals is just to lock him up and tell him not to pilot which they did.
>>
>>117404866

No they didn't have the time.
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>>117405002
If they hadn't been cold and harsh to him, however, none of that would have happened.
>>
>>117404993
It's so funny. You go "they're not aggressive", and you you're saying they are just "aggressive".
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>>117404990
I don't think you know what "abuse" actually is. A fucking band of guerilla fighters don't give a shit about making sure an impulsive kid who fucked the world up feels comfortable while they're in the middle of trying to survive, they tell him just to shut up and wait for things to settle down. For the third fucking time, Toji's sister had started to explain some things to Shinji when Rei came in. He wasn't waiting in WILLE for weeks with no word, he waited maybe a day at the MOST.


>>117405098
>if everyone was nice and friends nothing bad would have ever happened

Yeah, that would have made for a real fucking interesting hour and a half. Aren't there better series for you if that's what you want?

>>117405128
Notice how I put it in quotations? Do you really not understand what that sentence means?
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>>117404969
They did bond, Shinji just exploded the world and vanished, which caused her to be very angry.

Even now when everyone else hates him, she can't stop thinking about him. Her entire character in the rebuild movies basically revolves around him at this point.

He also has incredibly strong feelings for her, whether it's platonic or romantic is up in the air.
>>
>>117405201
Ok if they didn't need Shinji, why didn't they just kill him and let it be done with?
>>
>>117404993
The delusion is real.

Top kek anon, you're so delusional I feel sorry for you.

>>117405002
>He woke up himself because Asuka called apparently.
Nope, that was in space. He wakes up at WILLE as a planned measure.

>He is just dangerous. That is not a positive value. Its the exact opposite.
Negative value? That's still value. Absolute value if you will.

>They can't use him at all other then cause mass death on their own people.
...or to avoid mass death on their own people. He can be used for research, or as a bargaining chip, and as long as they have Shinji, his soul and all there, Gendo doesn't.

What they dont' need to do is to convince him that they're shit so he'll defect first chance.

Let's describe what WILLE did.

They woke up someone they knew Gendo needed.
Then they convinced him that they were full of shit and a bunch of assholes who wanted him dead.
Then they don't even tell him about Gendo being evil and whatnot.

They literally woke him up just so they could give him a reason to run away.

BRAVO ANNO
R
A
V
O

A
N
N
O

>Emotional value ?
Misato since she was after all, not able to kill him.
>>
>>117405222
>He also has incredibly strong feelings for her

Are we watching the same movies? They had something going on in the anime but not in the movies.
>>
>>117405201
Your world view is laughable.

I know you're autistic because an autistic person is only ever able to consider an emotional exchange from one PoV.

Congratulations on showcasing that people who defend 3.0 are actually autistic.
>>
>>117405251
Because they had no reason to unless he tried to pilot an Eva

They didn't want to kill him, but they were prepared to if he was going to do something that would fuck the world.

>>117405279
Again, just an absolutely thought provoking argument. I'm sure you have a lot of counter-points, but you're just not going to bother wasting your time, right?
>>
>>117405201
>Yeah, that would have made for a real fucking interesting hour and a half. Aren't there better series for you if that's what you want?
Yeah, it would have been more interesting than, "oh shinji I'm Kaworu, let me fix this. Oh and we're meant to be together, so let's play some piano."
I feel like there would have been more possibilities had Shinji not left for NERV.
>>
3.0 was basically 2 episodes stretched out to an entire film.
>>
>>117405098

Maybe Rei would have just taken him by force even if that means death for him. (Getting his DNA would be probably enough to create a clone.)

Anyway. Yeah they had bad luck it happened. Still can't really blame them. They think he is responsible for the death of nearly everyone they have ever loved.

In the end Shinji didn't follow Gendo and started the Impact on his own free will although everyone including Kaworu _explicitly_ told him not to do it.
>>
>>117405347
I'm sure Shinji sitting in a cell for an hour and a half would have been absolutely thought provoking.

>>117405344
Again, make an argument. I'm pretty sure you're the autistic one here, for not being able to grasp any concepts you don't personally gold.
>>
Why did WILLIE go to the gigantic effort of launching two Eva's into space, only to rescue Shinji, if they were never going to use him in any significant manner?
>>
>>117405201
>Yeah, that would have made for a real fucking interesting hour and a half. Aren't there better series for you if that's what you want?
Honestly, it would be a lot better. If they were, the characters would be more realistic and we'd have a bigger shot at getting some emotional downcrashes that weren't based on powerpoints and gay piano.

3.0 is exceptionally poorly written. It's a story that forcibly removes all help, all chance for success and ridiculously overpowers the antagonists and somehow expect narratively that the audience would expect any other end.
It's predictable and outright boring. Looks cool, but it's terrible.

It's the Phantom Menace of NGE.
>>
>>117405444
They say the need Unit 01 to power the Wunder. Not sure if they can use it like that with Shinji in there
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>>117405462
The phantom menace of Rebuild is 1.0, because it was unnecessary.

>>117405444
They didn't want Gendo to have him.
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>>117405357
That's basically all I'm trying to say. 3.0 was shit and relies on "luck" for the plot to be driven towards Anno's wants.

>>117405425
>I'm sure Shinji sitting in a cell for an hour and a half would have been absolutely thought provoking.
And I'm sure you're just being a faggot who has no imagination.
>>
>>117405425
>Again, make an argument. I'm pretty sure you're the autistic one here, for not being able to grasp any concepts you don't personally gold.
I made mine earlier. You just keep denying the aggressivity and the obvious outcome even in the movie.

You have to be insane to be in as much denial as you are.

Everything says you're wrong. The dialogue, the way Shinji perceives it, the movie itself denies you being right here. You only have a deep seated need for them to not actually have been aggressive because it's a point that defeats your argument entirely.

They had the time, and chose to use it poorly.
>>
>>117405520
Oh right I completely forgot it was the EVA they were obtaining, not Shinji. My bad.
>>
I feel like 3.0 was Anno trying WAY too hard to be Anno.

He basically said to himself "man, everyone really liked 2.0! but I am Anno, I must spit in their faces"

So he changes the setting. He retcons the ending of 2.0. And then he panders extremely hard to a group that wasn't really pandered too much before and leaves us with an unsatisfying ending that he probably thought was "heartbreaking" or a "downer."
>>
>>117405337
He liked her very much as a friend, they had a few nice scenes together, and he was completely torn up when she got turned into an angel and went into a coma, and was enthusiastically happy when he found out she was still alive.

Probably is it was a 2 hour movie, and got overshadowed by Rei, but he still had a strong bond with her, just like Rei and Misato.
>>
>>117405345
You don't need to counter-argue someone who's only argument is "no they weren't".

>>117405535
>That's basically all I'm trying to say. 3.0 was shit and relies on "luck" for the plot to be driven towards Anno's wants.
Pretty much. Luck as in contrived bullshit.

>>117405529
>They didn't want Gendo to have him.
That's fucking stupid. Gendo has angels in space defending the thing.

Jesus everything about this movie is just fanwank fanwank. It's a castle made out of air, a house made out of straw.
>>
>>117405279

Yes he first wakes up himself. Then he gets waken up because he is a threat now.

No its not.

Research ? Doubtful after so many years later.

They can't use him to bargain like I already explained.


They woke him up to contain him as he was now a real threat. They told him that and also that everything is fine unless he pilots.
They weren't able to explain everything including Gendo because they got attacked.

Misato would never openly accept that.
>>
>>117405444
They didn't, they wanted 01 to power their stupid ass ship.

He just randomly woke up because Asuka called out to him, for some reason even though she thought he was dead for 14 years.
>>
>>117405546
>They had the time
I really think you need to rewatch the movie. There was no opportunity for them to clue him in on a decade and a half that he wasn't present for. Right when someone starts to tell him what's been happening, he gets impulsive and goes with Rei, even though they start screaming at him not to, because he doesn't know the whole story.
>>117405529
No, you retard. They wanted Unit 01.
>>
>>117405201

Don't bother, they self insert in Shinji and blame anyone who isn't sucking his world destroying cock and coddling him. They are reality challenged NEETS who don't understand people have different priorities and Shinji isn't important to them to put him above their lives.
>>
>>117405612
If my argument is "no they weren't", yours is "I'm out of touch with reality and I think a kid that they didn't plan on having around should be the number one priority for a group of scavengers still dealing with shit directly caused by him"

You know you have nothing to say, so just admit it or fuck off.
>>
>>117405444

They didn't give a shit about Shinji. They wanted Eva 01 to power up the Wunder and needed Shinji OUT the Eva because he kind of causes AWAKENINGS AND IMPACTS if he stays there.

They were going to let Shinji live if he shut up and sat still, but most of them, except for Misato and Asuka, wanted him dead and gone.
>>
>>117405688
Stop being such a faggot.
>>
>>117405629
>Yes he first wakes up himself. Then he gets waken up because he is a threat now.
The EVA wakes up. Shinji is never shown to wake up until WILLE wakes him up. He is literally unconscious when they wake him. A
Anon get real, you're wrong.

>No its not.
Mathematically speaking, strategically speaking, hell yeah. He's a de facto valuable asset to them. Even if he wasn't, they have a moral obligation to do it right if they're taking responsibility by waking him.

>Research ? Doubtful after so many years later.
They seem to be doing well with what they have. They could learn. I'm sure Ritsuko has ideas.

>They can't use him to bargain like I already explained.
You didn't explain that, and they can use him to bargain, and they can use him to deny Gendo.

>They woke him up to contain him as he was now a real threat.
Since they were getting the EVA before he wakes up, that's wrong.

>They weren't able to explain everything including Gendo because they got attacked.
They didn't explain anything he could understand. Their explanation is only exposition for the audience. It's not realistic to tell him what they told him, because they know he wouldn't understand any of it.

>Misato would never openly accept that.
Says who, you? Either way, accepting it openly or not matters not, since I was merely proving that there is emotional value.
It's out in the open now anyway.
>>
>>117405535

Or maybe it wasn't bad luck or luck just Gendo actually registering the fact that Shinji woke up.

He probably saw what happened in space etc. too therefore it is understandable why the attack happens right away.

Then you would have to somewhat blame Wille who didn't protect Shinji enough. Although they technically did because Misato had the chance to deny Gendo.
>>
>>117405564

2.0 had a different ending until Ohtsuki and Enokido proposed to lure the audience into positive thinking. You should have learned that Anno was going to Anno'ed you when he accepted the change.

He had it in mind because he told Akira Ishida what will happen a while ago, but only to him. That's why he was shocked nobody of the VA knew about this direction until they recorded their lines.
>>
>>117405658
>I really think you need to rewatch the movie. There was no opportunity for them to clue him in on a decade and a half that he wasn't present for.
There was. Since the beginning all they need to do was say

"Take a seat Shinji, you can trust it, a load of shit happened and you need to take it calm".

Instead they point guns at him, don't answer questions, threaten him and are generally dismissive and passive aggressive.

When they do begin to explain, they start using terms and concepts Shinji has never heard of before, and so the explanation is useless. They would know it was useless because they didn't know it themselves either before Shinji vanished. There is no reason for them to assume he did.

All of this, from Asuka punching towards Shinji and Ritsuko saying he's sinned, it's things that make him lose trust in them and distrust them as opposed to trust them.
They're setting themselves up for failure and there's no plot-related reason or character related reason that actually can defend that.

What little the movie establish that WILLE wants to avoid (Shinji becoming emotionally unstable) is the one thing they don't try avoiding. Even when they find Shinji inside an EVA later, they STILL verbally abuse him and attack him. Even when Shinji wants to talk instead of fight.

It's a poorly written movie and that's a fact.
>>
>>117405752
See >>117404783

Your only rebuttal was
>I'm saying that you're a moron for thinking that brushing someone off and telling them to fuck off is being aggressive and abusive.

when the movie establishes such behavior to be interpreted as aggressive and abusive through Shinji's reaction.
Given that Misato etc... know Shinji, they would also know the inevitable consequence.

Not that you do need to.

If you tell someone to "fuck off" and to "brush them off", you are being aggressive. You need some serious mental gymnastics to pretend otherwise.
>>
>>117405812
>Or maybe it wasn't bad luck or luck just Gendo actually registering the fact that Shinji woke up.
Not him but it's bad luck because Gendo relies completely on WILLE fucking up easy shit to succeed with his plans.
He doesn't have an active player on the field or any influence, he just sits and waits for things to go south, and south they go.

It's as if he's Yagami Light with a Death Note that's really a Fuckup Note.

>Misato completely screws up the wakeup and brief of Shinji so Shinji thinks she's the enemy and comes to me
>Kaworu completely fucks up his plan because he is retarded

This is 3.33 in a nutshell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPwL0dcjZY
>>
>>117405969
>When shinji wants to talk instead of fight

I think you're forgetting what had just happened when they met up again with him later, dumbass.

Like I've been repeating, they aren't going to bother wasting time on him. They didn't want him, they wanted Unit 01. Now, they have to deal with a fucking ticking timebomb and they're too busy to explain 14 years worth of information to him. Asuka punches the glass because Shinji left her to save Rei, and the first thing he can do when he wakes up is say "where's ayanami" a hundred fucking times. Shinji has too much power and not enough understanding, which is a constant fucking problem. When they do start to explain to him what's going on, Shinji decides to ignore them and blindly go with "muh rei"
>>
You can tell exactly what went wrong with Rebuild by just looking at the posters.

>1.0
The characters introduced as far are all on the poster, surrounding Shinji in the centre.

>2.0
The same as 1.0, only Mari and Asuka have now also made an entrance. The story expands. Shinji is still at the centre.

>3.0
Picture related. Shinji is shoved to the side, sharing the centre with Kaworu. The rest of the characters are gone.

3.0 removed all the character and setting substance to sell a BL pairing. It actively and thoroughly killed any sort of meaning in the same process, aside from that BL pairing.

If Rebuild was good there would be no 3.0.
>>
>>117406294
I think you might actually be gay if you think anytime two male characters are the focus of a movie it's a cheap BL cashgrab
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>>117405790

Well I remembered that part wrong about him waking up earlier. But yeah it doesn't change anything.
No and no they don't because they hate him.

Maybe. All speculation.

I did. No they cant'. Which they tried.

No its not.

They did. No its not. It is from their view. Its is just a fragment of what was yet to follow.

Says the movie.


I dont think there is a point in arguing further anymore.
>>
>>117406285
>I think you're forgetting what had just happened when they met up again with him later, dumbass.
Forgetting what? I don't remember anything having happened prior.

They meet in Terminal Dogma, he's in an EVA, and he wants to talk. Now they would know that pissing him off here is stupid, but they do it anyway. Even when there was no need to. Poor writing.

>Like I've been repeating, they aren't going to bother wasting time on him.
They are wasting time on him, so you repeating what is to everyone else who watched the movie an obvious lie, is defeating your entire argument.
>>
>>117406400
Yeah, they meet as he's about to cause 4th fucking impact

Telling him to fucking stop isn't "pissing him off", it's Shinji being an emotional impulsive dumbass.
>>
>>117406349
>I dont think there is a point in arguing further anymore.
Only because you don't want to concede.

Come on you're literally going "ok I was wrong but that doesn't matter I'm still right".

Your arguments are just "No it's not", "No they can't", without addressing my own arguments that actually explains why they can and why it is.
>>
Considering how everyone is arguing over the way Shinji was treated, shows how poor the script was.

Anno could not convey his message.
>>
>>117406195

There is no way for Gendo to know what happens on board so his only plan must have been to forcefully get Shinji which makes his decision irrelevant.

Kaworou plan was a bit weird but god fucking dammit they should have made it so that Shinji doesn't HEAR Kawo telling him to stop.
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>>117406348
You have to be a fujoshit to deny reality as hard as you do.
I bet you could look at a gay porn DVD cover and go "it's totally not gay".
>>
>>117406491
Anno conveyed the message just fine, the problem is belligerent autists who self insert as Shinji not liking anyone being mean to him.

>>117406536
>Two males on a movie poster is the same as Van

Come on now. The thing is, the japanese don't see being a fag as anything more than a fetish or a phase, so the argument doesn't really stand. You must be really upset that Rei wasn't on the poster to compare Q to actual gay porn. Fuck, in NGE, Kaworu confessed his fucking love to Shinji, they didn't do that shit in this one.
>>
>>117406462
No? He's wanting to talk.

>Telling him to fucking stop isn't "pissing him off", it's Shinji being an emotional impulsive dumbass.
What exactly are you not understanding? Do you think an exchange is a one-way thing?

They know he's emotionally unstable and that is BAD. So why piss him off and not talk him down? You're retarded.

>>117406491
We're only "arguing" because one anon is trying his hardest to shut out reality. This is the anon who thinks brushing someone off without provocation and telling them to fuck off with a harsh tone isn't "aggressive".
>>
The whole point is that Shinji can destroy the world if he gets too emotional.

That's why they should fucking no better then to treat him like that.

Either mercy kill him, or take care to keep him emotionally sane.
>>
>>117406468

I said I was wrong about 1 little side thing which obviously makes 0 difference in any of the other points.

They had to wake up him regardless of him waking up earlier on his own or not.

Unit 01 woke up with him being inside. They thought he was the trigger.

I explained earlier and you ignored that part about bargaining. No point in posting it again.

Your points are simply wrong. There is no point in arguing you are plain false. The movie says the exact same reasoning to why they woke him.

There is also no point in repeating why its realistic how they talk to him.

I addressed all of your arguments properly in my posts at some points.
>>
>>117406651
>He just wants to talk

Show me the fucking line, then. Link me to the fucking script, and highlight where he does that.

>without provocation

They didn't fucking even want to deal with Shinji, they thought he was dead. They don't even know it's really Shinji, because he was fucking absorbed into the Eva for 14 years.
>>
>>117406491
Eh, I think most of us know he was treated like shit. It's the majority opinion to the point there's just a handful people on the entire net claiming otherwise.
One of them is in this thread now.

Let me show you how retarded he is by an analogy:

In a hostage situation, you have a guy with a bomb that's off his rocks pointing a gun at a child or something.
He says he wants to talk, and he wants to explain.
Then the negotiator or comes in and immediately loosens a few shots while calling the guy a brat.

The bomb goes off, and later the negotiator who survives goes "lol I wasn't being aggressive, he was just insane that interpreted it that way!".

NGE brings the worst out in some people.

>>117406519
>There is no way for Gendo to know what happens on board so his only plan must have been to forcefully get Shinji which makes his decision irrelevant.
That's conjecture.

Gendo did it anyway without knowing what happened on board, and Rei Q's is telling him to come along instead of just grabbing him. That means the first order was to tell him to come along. You know this the true because ReiQ can only follow orders.
>>
>>117406651
>No? He's wanting to talk.
Not really.
>Shinji why are you piloting Eva after we told you not to?
>I'm gonna save the world.
>Don't do that.
>You don't know shit Asuka, watch and learn.
>4th impact
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>>117406620
>Come on now. The thing is, the japanese don't see being a fag as anything more than a fetish or a phase, so the argument doesn't really stand.
That's why I'm not saying it's bad that it's gay.

I'm saying that the cover is obviously and quite clearly fujoshi pandering. Compare it to the previous cover. Here is the one for 1.0.

Does this seem pandering to you? It's generally describing.
>>
>>117406908
It's not fujoshit pandering just because the two characters with the most screentime are on the poster
>>
>>117399917
I Like the Timeskip, but 3.33 need more time for the other characters, that movie is about Shinji and Kaworu and that work well.
But Khara not make anything about Shinji and Rei relationship or the Asuka and Mari relationship.
Fuck I Know than Rei is gonna die again fixing all the shit than Shinji make, and that is just shit
As a Rei fan always annoy me than she never have hope Ending.
>>
>>117400002
Both are good for defferent reasons.
>>
>>117406869
>>117406805
Top kek. Thinking your made up greentext counts as the actual script? Good job taking the conclusion too.

01:08:44 {Shinji} What's going on?!
01:08:55 {Shinji} Eva-02?
01:08:57 {Shinji} Asuka!
01:09:00 {Shinji} What are you doing, Asuka?!
01:09:05 {Asuka} Stupid Shinji?!
01:09:06 {Asuka} You can't seriously be piloting an Eva?!
01:09:08 {Shinji} I am.
01:09:10 {Shinji} And I'm going to change the world doing it!
01:09:13 {Asuka} You damned brat...
01:09:15 {Asuka} If that's how it is, don't pilot!
01:09:25 {Asuka} Your support fire is always late!
01:09:26 {Mari} Sorry, sorry!
01:09:28 {Mari} Adams' Vessel-san,
01:09:31 {Mari} at least I'll stop *you* in your tracks.
01:09:54 {Shinji} Why are you getting in our way, Asuka?
01:09:56 {Shinji} Those are our Spears of hope!
01:10:01 {Asuka} Stop!... looking!... for trouble!
01:10:04 {Asuka} You brat, Shinji!
01:10:05 {Asuka} Are you trying to cause Third Impact again?
01:10:07 {Shinji} No I'm not!

There's the actual script. Notice how Asuka attacks him first, calls him stupid when all Shinji is asking her what she's doing.
Shinji isn't fighting back but actually asking Asuka why she's fighting.

I mean, this one is just gold:
>01:10:05 {Asuka} Are you trying to cause Third Impact again?
>01:10:07 {Shinji} No I'm not!

You have to ask yourself WHY WILLE is attacking Shinji, calling him names and whatnot when he's in a fucking EVA. This is so beyond retarded.
>>
>>117406869
I would love to read a doujin where Asuka asks what Shinji's purpose in life is and he tells her that it's to pilot the EVAs. Then she would say, "not any more." Then Shinji becomes her little sex-toy.
>>
>>117406620
>The thing is, the japanese don't see being a fag as anything more than a fetish or a phase
You're believing everything you read on 4chan, and they do actually think of Shinji and Kaworu as a gay couple
>>
>>117406970
It's pandering because those two characters having the most screentime is actually pandering.
Fujoshi want them to have an entire movie for themselves, they want to have max kawoshin at the expense of everything else, and that is what 3.0 and that poster sells to them.

Just compare it with the previous poster.
>>
>>117400077
Meh 3.0 was just decent.
EOE is a Masterpiece.
>>
>>117407030
>asuka attacks him first

You wouldn't know this since you've only watched the Rebuilds, but that's not out of character for Asuka.

>If that's how it is, don't pilot!
>Why are you getting in our way, Asuka?
> Stop!... looking!... for trouble!
>You brat, Shinji!
> Are you trying to cause Third Impact again?

She's literally pleading with him not to do it, but he does anyway.
>>
>>117406805
See >>117406727

He gets it. I get it. Why can't you?

>>117406989
>I Like the Timeskip, but 3.33 need more time for the other characters, that movie is about Shinji and Kaworu and that work well.
It obviously didn't work except to pander you faggot.

If all you care about is "muh happy end Rei" then you can kill yourself. Rei doesn't need a happy ending to be a great character. Neither does anyone else.
To be a great character you actually need to have substance, development and a unbroken character arc that is in itself meaningful.

If Rei dies at the end, who cares? We're all going to die some day. It's about how you live before you die, not the fact that you do die.
>>
>>117406815

Alright I agree that Gendo would also try also that because Shinji still remembers her. It is not impossible to believe that Shinji is still confused right after being awakened.

But I seriously doubt that Gendo only planned to attack so it would be at right the perfect moment where the explanation of Wille was where they would seem like the bad guys and 0 about him or Rei.

More about his confusion right after awakening other than Wille not saying the wrong things so far.
>>
>>117407136
>You wouldn't know this since you've only watched the Rebuilds, but that's not out of character for Asuka.
How is this an argume`nt whatsoever?

It doesn't make it any less retarded with the context.

>She's literally pleading with him not to do it, but he does anyway.
No she's not, she's attacking him and calling him names. Stop being a dumbass retarded waifufag.

Shinji says he's not going to cause an impact, he's not attacking, and he wants Asuka to stop attacking. Shinji is the only one trying to talk, Asuka wants a fight.

She's being retarded, and "being retarded is in character for Asuka in NGE" is not an arugment.
>>
>>117407136
What does other Evangelion stories have in common with 3.0? There's no WILLE or shit about causing impacts in NGE or any of the other stories.

Asuka attacks him first, Shinji doesn't attack back, but is forced to attack back in self defense.

It's retarded because he's in an EVA and they KNOW him getting worked up emotionally is what causes an impact. Why they are trying their hardest to upset him by atacking and taunting him is beyond me.

>>117407187
You don't get it. Gendo hasnt' "planned" anything. Things just happen and you're to ASSUME he planned everything.
Him planning all of this is beyond belief and is just a plot device. His entire character reduced to a plot device.
>>
>>117407272
Shinji doesn't know he's going to cause an impact, you moron. He thinks he knows what he's doing, when he doesn't know shit. Asuka knows that what he's doing will cause a fucking impact, and she's trying to get him to stop the only way she knows how.

Why is everyone who doesn't blindly agree with someone else a waifufag?
>>
>>117407030

>WHY WILLE is attacking Shinji, calling him names and whatnot when he's in a fucking EVA. This is so beyond retarded

Because he actually seems to be working for Gendo now after being gone for weeks maybe.
He does get help from Rei and is trying to start an impact.

Asuka is a fighter not a diplomat. Telling him not to pilot didn't work anyway.

>>117406651

Talk him down ? Even fucking Kaworu told him to stop, showed him what the impact had caused and he STILL ignored him.
>>
>>117407030
Attacking him first isn't unreasonable since he's a hair away from ruining what's left of the world.
>>
Shinji isn't a man of reason.
>>
>>117407454
>Even fucking Kaworu told him to stop

I wonder how fast he'll have an excuse for this. What he's not understanding is that none of these characters are going to sit down and talk things out when Shinji's pulling the same bullshit AGAIN and has the possibility to destroy the fucking world.
>>
>>117407382

He did plan something or Rei hadn't been there with the fire support.

Its not that far fetched to expect Shinji to be confused. Everything else I agree would be retarded beyond belief.
>>
>>117407114
Decent is unfortunately the best we've had from the franchise since End of Evangelion.
>>
Shinji hasn't been able to make any decisions for himself, the guy would be totally confused
>Get in the robot
>nearly destroys the world
>don't get in the robot cunt
>gets in the robot because rei and gendo told him too
>wants to fix the world
>asuka and kaworu now tell him no minutes before he does
>nearly fucks it up again

Miscommunication is a lovely thing.
>>
>>117407640
Basically, which is why I'm fucking pissed off that Anno still hasn't released an EoE BD yet.
>>
>>117407475
It is, because at that point attacking him will guarantee that he tries to do so.
>>
>>117407723
They didn't even know it was Shinji in Unit 13 at first. They gave him a chance to back down and he didn't, so they kept trying to kill him like the original plan.
>>
>>117407454
>Because he actually seems to be working for Gendo now after being gone for weeks maybe.
He doesn't seem to be working with them if he says he's not going to start impacts. Moreover assuming that is a mistake, and you know what? It was.

>Asuka is a fighter not a diplomat.
Then that's Asuka's fault, because she's fighting where diplomacy was the right way. Shinji is trying diplomacy by explaining and trying to understand.

It's pathetic how Asukafags defend Asuka because she's their waifu.

>>117407475
Nope. If they don't attack they have the chance to talk, they have a chance at solving it without any impacts starting.

>>117407534
>>117407454
Relax kids.
>Talk him down ? Even fucking Kaworu told him to stop, showed him what the impact had caused and he STILL ignored him.
This is actually explained. Shinji has by that point lost control of his emotions, just like Ritsuko warned earlier. Because Asuka attacks and Kaworu ignores him, it's now too late.

You have to accept and understand that you're wrong. If they had sat down and talked, it would be solved. What's bullshit is that Asuka/WILLE knows that attacking will lead to inevitable failure (which the movie proves by showing the consequences), and they do it anyway.
>>
>>117407669

He only gets in the robot because Kawo tells him its possible to fix the world. He clearly doesn't want to help Gendo or the Rei clone.

Which makes it completely retarded that he ignores Kawo later on.

I mean Kawo gets disabled as a pilot by Gendo so that he can't stop Shinji but the movie also should have disabled the voice link for that time so he could not tell Shinji to stop.

That way Shinji is screwed but you can not blame him.
>>
>>117407399
>Shinji doesn't know he's going to cause an impact, you moron. He thinks he knows what he's doing, when he doesn't know shit. Asuka knows that what he's doing will cause a fucking impact, and she's trying to get him to stop the only way she knows how.
That's wrong though. Asuka knows absolutely nothing. Kaworu does in this case.

Shinji doesn't want to start an impact. All Asuka has to do is explain to him, which she does not do. She attacks instead. She could just ask for time to explain to him and ask for trust, but she doesn't do that either.

She's not doing it "the only way she knows how", because that would assume that she's incapable of speaking. If the only way she can stop him is by fighting, then she does not know how at all.
>>
>>117407545
It is far-fetched because he can't reliably know what goes on. His plans aren't shown or elaborated own, they don't exist besides the assumption that he planned it.

All his plans are just guesswork. It always goes his way, and so it's just luck, or plot contrivance i.e bad writing. This isn't supposed to be a comedy.
>>
>>117407889
>Nope. If they don't attack they have the chance to talk, they have a chance at solving it without any impacts starting.
You think Wille should try and open a dialog with every hostile Eva they find? I don't think their circumstances allow for playing by Star Trek Federation rules.
>>
>>117407876
>They didn't even know it was Shinji in Unit 13 at first
But when they do, the attacks continue.

>They gave him a chance to back down and he didn't, so they kept trying to kill him like the original plan.
That's wrong. Shinji was always backing down. He didn't attack them, he merely took the blows they were dealing while trying to communicate.
>>
>>117407889

Yeah he says hes not doing it but he is actually doing it right there. So we should totally believe him.
?
No ?


Kawo doesn't ignore him he tells him to stop because the Spears are wrong. He can't do anything else because Gendo blocked him.

Wrong about what ? You just confirmed that you cant my point. You cant talk to him because he lost control over his emotions. Shinji didnt want to talk. He wanted to start the impact no matter what anyone else said or did.

Asuka/Wille doesnt know that attacking is futile which it isnt since Mari later stops the impact.
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>>117407680
Fucking Christ I've wanted this for so long.
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>>117408065
>You think Wille should try and open a dialog with every hostile Eva they find? I don't think their circumstances allow for playing by Star Trek Federation rules.
The circumstances do allow for it because they are already in contact. See >>117407030

PLUS we have it established in the movie that they do not want Shinji to lose control inside an EVA. By that fact alone they are OBLIGATED to make attempts to calm the situation, which they don't. Instead they did what would guarantee their failure.
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>>117400332
Evangelion Memoria game have some picture about how Mari act with Asuka, MAri just tease her and Asuka feel annoy for that.
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>>117408102
>Yeah he says hes not doing it but he is actually doing it right there. So we should totally believe him.
You're being retarded now. Learn to use quotes too.

Shinji is not doing ANYTHING at the moment they meet him. All Shinji is doing, is trying to talk with them. They aren't letting him speak his version, and they aren't trying to explain their version either.

>Kawo doesn't ignore him
Yes, he does ignore him. Here, have an excerpt:

01:10:30 {Shinji} Kaworu-kun, help me out here!
01:11:30 {Shinji} Kaworu-kun, what happened to you?!

Shinji asks for Kaworu's help when they're fighting, and Kaworu doesn't respond at all. He's ignoring him.
Only when it's too late, and Shinji sees an opportunity when Asuka is changing batteries
01:12:07 {Shinji} Now's our chance to grab the Spears!
does Kaworu say something.

But of course, by that time it's too late to say anything. Asuka and Mari are going to attack, Shinji is stressed, he has already become too emotionally unstable to stop.

>You cant talk to him because he lost control over his emotions. Shinji didnt want to talk. He wanted to start the impact no matter what anyone else said or did.
That's wrong, and the movie proves otherwise by having Shinji insisting on talking while Asuka insists on fighting. See >>117407030

>Asuka/Wille doesnt know that attacking is futile which it isnt since Mari later stops the impact.
Yes they do. The want to prevent the impact from at all starting, not let Shinji start it and then stop it later. Mari was only able to stop it because Kaworu offed himself.

They know that attacking is futile. Ritsuko and WILLE make that clear early on in the movie.
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>>117408065
Works for the Federation. Why not WILLE?

Follow my logic here:

WILLE knows that Shinji losing emotional control will cause an awakening. They want to prevent that, and they even install a DSS choker to kill him if he were to lose control.

WILLE also knows that attacking Shinji, verbally abusing him or otherwise threatening him will make him become emotionally unstable. Like with any other person, and especially a vulnerable 14 year old who's seen hell.

Thus, WILLE attacking Shinji, insulting him or threatening him is the one course of action they cannot take. Because that will lead to him losing control, and starting another impact, and it's game over.

When Shinji tries to initiate talks and explain himself, the circumstances are perfectly set for playing by Star Trek Federation rules. You literally have to go out of your way to fuck things up.

Which is what they did.
They attack, threaten and verbally abuse, logically leading to a less stable Shinji, logically leading to what Ritsuko said would happen earlier in the movie: an awakening.
Shit movie.
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>>117408140
They only know it's Shinji after they attack and then they do try to talk to him. They don't have any reason to try and talk him down when they can just kill him.
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>>117407030
>he don't knows about "baka shinji"
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>>117408140
Regardless of what they say or do, Shinji's still en route to destroy the fucking world. It'd be much easier to just kill him instead of trying to reason with a kid who has no idea what he's doing.
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>>117408825
>They only know it's Shinji after they attack and then they do try to talk to him. They don't have any reason to try and talk him down when they can just kill him.

Shoot first talk later. Yeah, not a brilliant plan when you don't have enough guns to actually kill.

They attack first, OK, strike one. They know it's Shinji, oh boy they fucked up he's in an EVA, better not want to upset him any more.
Then Shinji tries to talk.

Asuka refuses and starts attacking.

They blew it.
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>>117408837
What are you, an idiot?
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>>117408899
>Asuka refuses

I don't know if you're just stupid, or deliberately trying to ignore the fucking script, which was posted.

Shinji keeps babbling about why he's doing the right thing, Asuka tells him he's wrong, he's an idiot, he has no idea what he's actually doing, and he'll cause another impact.
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>>117408889
>Regardless of what they say or do, Shinji's still en route to destroy the fucking world.
That's not true. Shinji doesn't want to destroy the world, and if he's "en route", all they are doing is telling him to hurry up.

Killing him only works if you can actually kill him. They can't, their EVA's are shit and outdated. It's a bad plan even from that perpective.
But it's a bad plan even ignoring that, because if you attack Shinji, you are guaranteeing that he will become unstable.

You lose by default for trying.

The one thing they COULD have done, would be to reason. Shinji is inviting them to.
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>>117408756
>Works for the Federation. Why not WILLE?
Because Star Trek was written by a communist pacifist and Eva isn't.

>>117408899
They had the ability to drop any Eva that wasn't Unit 13. They didn't have anyway to know they had the biggest exception to the rules sitting in front of them until Mari tried to shoot it with the Anti-AT rounds.
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>>117408968
You have some serious delusions. I posted the script.
I notice how biased you are, calling Shinji babbling and whatnot.

You're ignoring that Asuka is constantly attacking while Shinji is not.
Asuka does not explain that he's wrong, she is just accusing him wrongly and explains nothing except calling him a brat.
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>>117409004
>Because Star Trek was written by a communist pacifist and Eva isn't.
You don't know what Anno is, and either way it makes Rebuild contrived as fuck.

It would have worked here as well, which is by the way, they don't try it.
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>>117408984
Do you not realize that Shinji's going to go through with it either way? Of course he doesn't want to destroy the world, but he's too misinformed to realize that's exactly what he's going to do. Shinji's not inviting them to reason with him, you idiot. He's telling them "No, seriously guys, don't worry, it'll all be fine, I got this"

They know that he has no idea what he's talking about and are doing whatever they can to try and stop him from removing the spears

>>117409077
Because Shinji's been so receptive to that idea, right? Asuka's trying to stop him from getting near the spears. Shinji keeps trying to get to the spears. He's not listening irregardless of how they're trying to reason with him. He's convinced he's right, and won't listen to them at all. If someone told you you were an idiot, and you were going to destroy the world AGAIN, would you stop and hesitate, or would you continue and ignore them?
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>>117409004
>They had the ability to drop any Eva that wasn't Unit 13.
[Citation needed]
At any rate, this IS EVA13. It's out of their league.

Now fucking stop running away from the central arguments you've yet to disprove.

WILLE knows attacking will fuck it up.
Yet they attack.

That is a severe contradition in the movie's plot that essentially ruins the credibility of the movie, as if everything else hadn't already.

Shinji is trying to talk, Asuka is attacking him while he's talking. WILLE fucked up.
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>>117408392

I know how to use quotes you must be retarded to have difficulties.

He is near the critical area saying that he wants to use the spears.

Their version is clear. Don't fucking do it.
His version is pretty clear too. He will because he think it is right.

>Yes, he ...

Pointless nitpicking. Kaworu tells him.

>That's wrong,...

Nope.
He doesn't after they disagree with his plans. He decides to go through.

>Yes they do......

Nope.
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>>117409077
Because Shinji was wrong for stepping in the Eva in the first place. Also, Asuka doesn't know he has the collar off, and when he's saying shit like spears of hope, and I'm going to change the world. He sounds fucking insane especially after the great pains they went to deter him from piloting.
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>>117409200
>Do you not realize that Shinji's going to go through with it either way?
That's not an argument. You're making an assumption you have no basis for.

It's easier if you just concede at this point. We've gone through every bit of the plot that tells you that they could have taken an action to stop it, and that Shinji doesn't want to, and you're ignoring WILLE's side in this.

This:
>Shinji's not inviting them to reason with him, you idiot. He's telling them "No, seriously guys, don't worry, it'll all be fine, I got this"
Is also wrong.

The fact that he is talking, trying to explain and asking them WHY is an open invitation that they did not take.
01:09:00 {Shinji} What are you doing, Asuka?!
01:09:54 {Shinji} Why are you getting in our way, Asuka?
01:10:05 {Asuka} Are you trying to cause Third Impact again?
01:10:07 {Shinji} No I'm not!

Shinji is consistently trying to talk and not fight, while Asuka is consistently trying to fight.

Just stop protesting against the movie.
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>>117409294
>Because Shinji was wrong for stepping in the Eva in the first place.
How is this even remotely an argument?

>Also, Asuka doesn't know he has the collar off, and when he's saying shit like spears of hope, and I'm going to change the world. He sounds fucking insane especially after the great pains they went to deter him from piloting.
What pains? All they did was punch the glass and treat him like shit.

Stop fanwanking, please.

Are you just a retarded Asukafag defending Asuka or something?
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>>117409146
>You don't know what Anno is
I know he loves merch bucks too much to be a communist.

They did try talking to him and he didn't listen, You're basically saying "if the character responded like I want him to instead of how he did in the movie it would have worked" which is true but not what happened and also not a argument.

>>117409210
They don't know anything about Unit 13, all they know is NERV has a new Eva. You're inventing a scenario that isn't present in the movie by confusing information the audience knows with what the characters know and then telling me I'm wrong because I won't disprove it.
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>>117409408
And, they also put an explosive collar around his neck to stop him from piloting.
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>>117409200
>Because Shinji's been so receptive to that idea, right?
He is. He is in fact the only one trying to reason.

>Asuka's trying to stop him from getting near the spears.
By escalating the conflict.

You are being retarded now anon. By escalating the conflict, you only make things worse. Haven't you learned a single fucking thing?
What makes this stupid here is that Asuka literally has no reason to do what she does. She's being a plot device as usual.

WILLE doesn't want to upset Shinji in an EVA, they want to prevent it. Yet that's what they do here, for no reason.

Don't you fucking understand that if you start attacking Shinji, start harassing him verbally he's only going to fight back and try harder for the spears? He's also going to become increasingly unreasonable the more you fight him.

Instead of talking to him when they had the chance, they attacked and blew it.
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I thought each rebuild was better than the last.

With 3.0, I looked past that garbage Wunder, and Mari.
I went into it assuming it was going to be about Shinji introspection so I was not disappointed.

Sure, it could have been much much better, but it was about what Eva is about at its core;

>Shinji being in an irredeemably bad situation and no one liking him.
>Rei and Gendo both being creepy and distant, with emphasis on Gendo using everyone purely as his tools.
>The world being shit, and only getting worse.
>The only love Shinji is shown is 'planned' and weird but he eats it up anyway because he just wants someone to love him.
>General weird shit going down towards the end.
>Asuka still being top-tier alpha bitch, but hasn't given up on Bakaprime even though he almost ended the world twice.
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>>117409502
>They did try talking to him and he didn't listen,
Wrong. They didn't try, the proof is in the script. Accusing, namecalling etc... is not trying to talk. It's flapping your mouth open and shut all right, but it is not reasoning.

I dont' understand why you're so insistent on arguing against me when you can't win.
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>>117409551
It's kind of like what Shinji thinking is happening in NGE turning into what is really happening in 3.0 fron what you're saying. I still do not like 3.0.
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>>117409225
>he is near the critical area saying he wants to use the spears
>>117409294
>when he's saying shit like spears of hope, and I'm going to change the world. He sounds fucking insane

The rest of these idiots are convinced that Shinji would just stop and talk it out. WILLE doesn't give a fuck, they want him gone as fast as possible.

>>117409354
>Are you trying to cause Third Impact again?

Seems pretty fucking clear to me what they're tring to say. They're implying that if he continues, he'll cause another impact. How are you not getting this?

>>117409408
>Shinji whatever you do don't pilot the Eva
>We've put a collar on you to kill you so you won't pilot the Eva
>Shinji don't go with Rei, you don't know the full story yet, just listen to us
>"I better go with her anyway"

Literally every interaction they had with Shinji was to stop him from getting in a fucking Eva, he does anyway, and you want them to try and talk it out? He's standing near the fucking spears, talking about how he's going to do it. They're just trying to stop him at all costs.

>>117409541
Do you self insert as Shinji? She's clearly telling him that continuing to try and remove the spears will fuck everything up, but he thinks he's right and won't listen. I notice you also completely ignored my point, "He's convinced he's right, and won't listen to them at all. If someone told you you were an idiot, and you were going to destroy the world AGAIN, would you stop and hesitate, or would you continue and ignore them?" because you know you have no argument against it.

>>117409599
Of course they're not going to have a fucking round table discussion with him, he's babbling about pulling the fucking spears out and walking toward them. Asuka tells him that all he's doing is causing more trouble, and trys to physically stop him, yet he doesn't hesitate for a second. You're forgetting that Shinji isn't mentally fucking stable.
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>>117409502
>They don't know anything about Unit 13, all they know is NERV has a new Eva.
A new EVAngelion unit that's more modern than their old ones. If they don't know anything, then they better not try anything either. It's not safe.

I'm not inventing a scenario, YOU are.

I'm the one bringing the scripts, I'm the one objectively proving you wrong.

You've yet been unable to disprove the argument that defeats the entire scene in the movie.

>WILLE knows attacking Shinji is dangerous
>WILLE attacks him anyway

This happens DESPITE them having the option not to, and Shinji is trying to talk with them.

Despite knowing the risk of Shinji being in the EVA, despite knowing that he was inside it, they still attacked on every occasion.

Rewatch the movie, they are attacking Shinji constantly while he is on the defensive.
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This thread is a fucking mess. I have no idea who's arguing about what.
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>>117409712
>Seems pretty fucking clear to me what they're tring to say. They're implying that if he continues, he'll cause another impact. How are you not getting this?
Nobody is getting it, just you who fanwank meaning into where it doesn't fit.

Nobody will be getting this. Don't you understand context? Shinji doesn't understand it either. You're not trying to understand what goes on here.

Not only is it unclear, it's a bad way of speaking to him because it's accusing him of something bad, which is a terrible way of starting up a negotiation.

Shinji is the one asking what Asuka is doing and why she's in their way. Asuka doesn't explain, she keeps attacking and says that, while calling him a brat.
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>>117409599
>Are you trying to cause an impact?
>No I'm not
He's already ignoring what they've told him. Telling him again doesn't change anything. What exactly do you think they could say to stop him that would carry more weight than the threat of destroying the world again?
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>>117409720
I don't either. This is just a fun little time waster.
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>>117409719
You don't understand, they're not just attacking Shinji to fight him. They're trying to stop him from causing a fucking impact. He's obviously convinced that it's the right thing to do, so of course they're going to try and stop him however they can. Shinji's not on the fucking defensive, because if he was, he wouldn't be anywhere near the spears. The whole fight is a result of Shinji continuing to walk towards the spears. If he had been trying to defend himself in a corner, I'd agree with you. He's going towards the fucking spears, and they need to stop him.
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>>117409712
>Literally every interaction they had with Shinji was to stop him from getting in a fucking Eva, he does anyway, and you want them to try and talk it out?
Yes you fucking moron, because that's the problem in the first place.

They made themselves seem like liars when they said he shouldn't get in the EVA. This is obvious to anyone without grade A autism.

Shinji is trying to talk it out, so them not doing it is just fucking themselves over.
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>>117409800
If you don't, Kaworu will NTR you
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>>117409800
>He's already ignoring what they've told him.
No, they are ignoring what he just told them. Literally.
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>>117409666
Your devil trips have made it all clear to me. Like >>117400077 predicts, I think what you said is what Anno was going for.
I like it for that reason, Shinji is meant to suffer, and so do we.
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>>117409719
You haven't proved anything. Evas don't operate on conventional technology, its not better because it's new it's better because it's an Adam.
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>>117409712
>She's clearly telling him that continuing to try and remove the spears will fuck everything up
No, she doesn't even mention the spears.

Now you've fucking lost your mind here.

YOU DONT HAVE A POINT. YOU HAVE BEEN FANWANKING THIS ENTIRE SESSION AND ITS GRATING.

You realize that Shinji, despite he's being told he's an idiot and that he's going to destroy the world, is trying to explain himself and asking the others what they are doing, i.e what they mean?

Asuka just attacks him. They failed. YOU failed.

>>117409800
Read the script or watch the movie. It's Asuka that ignores what Shinji says. When Shinji is actually asking them what they're doing and tells them he's not intending to start an impact, while not attacking them, then all Asuka had to do is to start explaining. If she doesn't attack, Shinji doesn't strike back.
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>>117409792
>>117409847
"SHINJI ARE YOU TRYING TO CAUSE ANOTHER IMPACT?"

That's stupidly fucking clear. You calling it "fanwank" when you're too stupid to realize that she's trying to get him to stop the only way she knows how.

>>117409888
What exactly did he tell them? "No, I'm not"? Of course they'd ignore that, because they know regardless of whether he's trying to or not, removing the spears will cause a fucking impact.
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>>117409712
>Of course they're not going to have a fucking round table discussion with him,
That's not an of course. It's what they SHOULD have done, but didn't do which is what fucked up the movie. It's a idiot plot.

>You're forgetting that Shinji isn't mentally fucking stable.
WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY YOU DON'T ESCALATE THE SITUATION

Holy shit anon.
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>>117409998
>That's stupidly fucking clear
You know what's even more clear?
01:10:07 {Shinji} No I'm not!

You are being a fucking idiot who just takes Asuka's side because you're a waifufag. Fucking kill yourself. You're not getting Asuka's virtual pussy you degenerate manchild.

>b-but it's the o-only way she knows!
Try making that argument for Shinji then, you biased cunt.

Asuka could done what Shinji did, talk. Explain to him. She had the time because Shinji isn't attacking her. Instead she did the one thing she shouldn't do, the one thing she KNEW would be bad, i.e attack Shinji inside an EVA which makes him unstable and it all goes boom.
>>
I would've much rather seen 3.0 becoming TTGL with an EVA skin than whatever piece of crap this turned into.
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>>117409953
I proved it, the movie proved it.

Moreover, logic and what the movie has established proves it. (Don't upset Shinji inside an EVA, or else we get an awakening to deal with)

Just like I am arguing, it happened. It happened because WILLE are retards, and WILLE are retards because the plot is written like shit.
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>>117409989
Are you genuinely retarded? Of course she's not literally explaining every fucking nuance of the spears. He's walking towards the spears and talking about how he's going to remove them. She's telling him that will cause an impact. He doesn't listen.

>>117410042
But that's not a logical fucking thing to do when someone's got their finger on a nuclear launch button and talking incoherently about how they're going to save the world. Asuka isn't fucking fighting him, she's physically trying to stop him from "pushing the button"

There's no escalation, you chimp. Do you think they should have just let him go and remove the spears? They're trying to fucking stop him.

>>117410123
You really do have a learning disability. I've been saying that they're just trying to stop Shinji. You're taking him saying "No" at literal face value. See my previous analogy, because one person convinced that they're doing the right thing doesn't mean they are right.

So Shinji isn't trying to cause an impact, I guess we'll all just sit back and let him do what he wants. I'm not a fucking waifufag, and it's pathetic that you have no way of arguing with me except by claiming that i'm blindly agreeing with everything a character does.
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>>117409813
>You don't understand, they're not just attacking Shinji to fight him.
Please read that sentence once again. Thank you.

They are attacking a person who they know will become unstable when they attack. Not only are they attacking, they are also insulting him calling him an idiot and a brat. Moreover they are accusing him.

Shinji is on the defensive, because he is not attacking. Being down there doesn't mean he's offensive.

The one who attacks is offensive, and that's Asuka. Shinji defending (but not attacking) means he's defensive.
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>>117409989
>then all Asuka had to do is to start explaining
You can't get any clearer than "you will start an impact by piloting an Eva." He's doing everything under a false premise that contradicts what Wille has told him because he's chosen not to believe them.

>>117410174
>I proved it, the movie proved it.
You haven't proved shit. You've made an argument that relies on a series of incorrect assumptions and out of character information then declared yourself correct.
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>>117410240
>Are you genuinely retarded? Of course she's not literally explaining every fucking nuance of the spears
Are you genuinely retarded? She's not explaining at all. Kill yourself.
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>>117410277
>You can't get any clearer than "you will start an impact by piloting an Eva."
No where does Asuka say that, so you don't have a point.
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New pachinko is apparently out in Japan, reportedly a lot of Mari + Asuka battles as well as a nice deal of Misato/Wille scenes/art.
Sadly we never get a good look on the artwork of these machines.
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>>117409998
>What exactly did he tell them? "No, I'm not"? Of course they'd ignore that, because they know regardless of whether he's trying to or not, removing the spears will cause a fucking impact.

Except they don't mention the spears at all. They are actually just reacting at him being in an EVA, not the spears.

You are delusional and fanwanking.

Here have an actual excerpt instead of you crazy fanwank:
01:09:00 {Shinji} What are you doing, Asuka?!
01:09:05 {Asuka} Stupid Shinji?!
01:09:06 {Asuka} You can't seriously be piloting an Eva?!

>>117410240
>But that's not a logical fucking thing to do when someone's got their finger on a nuclear launch button and talking incoherently about how they're going to save the world
That's the logical thing to do actually. Shinji isn't even at the button. You can't stop them from pushing it, but you can get them to willingly walk away.

You have no argument here.

They went from not fighting to fighting. That is escalting the fight, as Asuka is responsible for it.

It doesn't matter how many times you excuse it by "they're trying to stop him", because all they are doing is making things worse and they SHOULD have known that based on the exposition the film gives.

They tried to stop him by attacking him, actually trying to stopping him would be actually answering Shinji's request for explanation.

The guy holding the finger on the button will push it if you don't explain to him that he doesn't have to.
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>>117410380
He's been told this previously by Ritsuko and it can be inferred from what Asuka says even if he didn't have that prior knowledge.
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>>117400647
I am ok with Mari and Asuka being friends, heck Mari could be a positive relationship for Asuka.
The yuri thing come from the merchandising of the Evastore and some oficial images.
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>>117410240
> I've been saying that they're just trying to stop Shinji.
Which I'm saying that she did wrong, and did it so badly that not trying would be better.

You're the one taking things at face value, ignoring the setting, the characters, and everything.

The movie agrees with me. Doing what WILLE does lead to the negative conclusion.

They aren't going to let him sit back and do what he wants, they are going to talk instead of fight. WILLE has every incentive not to fight right there in the PLOT.
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>>117410264
They're accusing him because he's MOVING TOWARDS THE FUCKING SPEARS AND TALKING ABOUT HOW HE'S GOING TO SAVE THE WORLD

He's on the offensive because he's moving towards an objective they don't want him reaching, and are doing everything they can to keep him from reaching it.

>>117410304
Just curious, how much more clear than "Are you trying to start another impact again" would you have her be?

>>117410380
>She doesn't say this word for word so it didn't happen

ARE YOU TRYING TO START THIRD IMPACT AGAIN

What do you think that implies.

>>117410449
She knows that Shinji being in an Eva will cause a fucking impact. They need to stop him from doing whatever he's trying to do while in the fucking Eva, because it will cause an impact.

You're forgetting that Shinji was CONTINUING toward the fucking spears the whole time, he wasn't standing still and trying to let his voice be heard. Even fucking Karl told him specifically not to remove the spears, if you want to get specific. EVERYONE is telling him to get out of the Eva, and not remove the spears. He doesn't stop, he just keeps going while basically saying "I got this"
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>>117410460
>He's been told this previously by Ritsuko and it can be inferred from what Asuka says even if he didn't have that prior knowledge.
Now you're using a different scene and conversation, and asking it to be put together in a stressful situation.
You're also ignoring the context. Shinji doesn't understand what Ritsuko is saying (neither do you I suspect). Asuka is not explaining.

You see, you're just taking side. You need to do this without bias. You're consistently ignoring Shinji's side and even denying the characterization and exposition of the side you're arguing for.

Asuka did not, in terminal dogma, explain a single thing. Nowhere does she say that.

Instead, what she does do, is attack. Even before she got an answer. That is guaranteed to ruin everything.
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>>117410588
>She doesn't say this word for word so it didn't happen
What do you think explaining is?

She has to say it word for word if you're going to claim she says it at all. Your fanwank is not canon.
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>>117400775
Ramiel battle was so Good, Its a shame than khara not make an remake of the Leliel Battle.
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>>117410588
>Just curious, how much more clear than "Are you trying to start another impact again" would you have her be?
How about, not phrasing it as a question and actually taking Shinji's answer seriously. He says he's not going to.

Then it's only natural for Asuka to actually explain instead of attacking and insulting him. Explain to him her side of the situation, what she's been told.
That's called explaining, flailing at him with a weapon isn't.
>>
Guys lets be honest here, everyone in the movie is at fault.

The script was bad and made everyone out to look like an idiot except Gendo.

Hopefully they fix their shit for the next movie after everyone is complaining, plus the movie has potential since all 3 main kids are back together again, so we might see them work together again.

Find hope in your heart.
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>>117410607
Regardless of explanations, if someone is telling you to stop trying to do something, and telling you you'll destroy the fucking word if you continue, wouldn't you pause for a second?

>>117410643
>fanwank
Are you really so stupid that you can't understand a direct quote from the script? "Are you trying to start third impact again?"

It's a rhetorical question, you dumbfuck.

>>117410701
>He says he's not going to

He may not realize he's going to, but he fucking will. I don't understand how you're not putting that together. He doesn't believe he'll start another impact, but regardless of that he will.
>>
>>117410588
>He's on the offensive because he's moving towards an objective they don't want him reaching, and are doing everything they can to keep him from reaching it.
He's actually standing still.

So no, he's not on the offensive.

Just give up, you lost this hard.
>>
>>117410749
Hell, even Gendo is probably an idiot. He doesn't know what he's doing any more, he's just making it look like that.
>>
>>117410588
>She knows that Shinji being in an Eva will cause a fucking impact. They need to stop him from doing whatever he's trying to do while in the fucking Eva, because it will cause an impact.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

She knows that Shinji losing his emotional control in an EVA will cause an impact. That is the established canon. Stop making up shit to defend your waifu.
So she attacks him, and that's what messes things up because NOW he's lost control. Karl isn't helping either.

>>117410588
>He's on the offensive because he's moving towards an objective they don't want him reaching
That doesn't make him on the offensive.

Besides, he's actually standing still letting the AT-field drones take the blows. So he's not even moving towards the objective until they literally push him towards it.
>>
>>117410759
He's not fucking standing still. He's moving towards the objective, ignoring everyone else.
>>
>>117410607
>Now you're using a different scene and conversation
It's the same fucking movie. You don't get to exclude prior events because you invented some scenario where they don't apply. He knows what Wille told him because he denies trying to start an impact. He also doesn't listen to Kaworu who out of everyone involved would have the easiest time influencing Shinji's actions. Talking was never a viable solution and the movie makes this painfully obvious.
>>
>>117410753
>Regardless of explanations, if someone is telling you to stop trying to do something, and telling you you'll destroy the fucking word if you continue, wouldn't you pause for a second?
Yes. Shinji did pause.

Watch the film. He stands still facing Asuka, and ends up defending himself from her attacks.

Asuka didn't pause her attacks.
>>
>>117410753
Rhetorical questions are not explanations.

>He may not realize he's going to, but he fucking will.
[Citation needed]

What YOU aren't getting, is that he won't unless provoked to do so. If they talk they stand a much bigger chance of stopping everything there. It makes sense for them to talk because they don't want him to get upset in an EVA.

Yes, you are fanwanking and projecting. Quit it.
>>
Asuka probably should have chilled out.

But really, it's Asuka, and it's Shinji, so ya, when it comes to him, she is going to go crazy.
Every point in the movie, he does nothing but disappoint her, so she is frustrated.

4.0 needs Kaji back, he needs to have a talk with Shinji, he is the only one that would believe him about the spears.
>>
>>117410938
>is that he won't unless provoked to do so
He starts the impact by taking the spears, if Wille never showed up the exact same thing would have happened only sooner. Have you even seen the movie?
>>
>>117410823
See >>117410892

>>117410886
>It's the same fucking movie. You don't get to exclude prior events because you invented some scenario where they don't apply.
Yes, because you're putting them together as if they are one coherent situation given at one time in the movie.

He knows what WILLE has told him, but unless you are autistic you would understand that he thinks they're liars.
They tried to kill him, they abused him and fucked things up. He doesn't trust them, that's why he leaves them.

In the meantime, he trusts Kaworu at this point. He's given him the explanation WILLE wouldn't give them. He's also not been a dick to him.

That's why you thinking their non-explanations are actually valid is bullshit. It's also bullshit that Asuka explained anything in the scene.
>>
>>117410818
Asuka isn't my fucking waifu, friend. He was already dead fucking set on removing the spears before she even showed up.

>>117410892
Why would she pause her attacks? He's in a brand new Eva, she's in a piece of fucking scrap metal. She's in a deliberate disadvantage, and she's been told to stop him.

>>117410938
Did you only read an EvaGeeks synopsis or something? Karl tells Shinji multiple times to stop, and he doesn't. It's extremely fucking obvious that he's going to remove them no matter what. If they didn't attack him at all, he would have removed the spears. He was planning on doing it before they even fucking showed up, he thinks he's saving the world. You claiming that WILLE provoked Shinji into removing the spears is fanwank, because he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. If he was provoked, he'd be doing something with malicious intent.

>>117411040
Again, Kaworu is the only person he trusts, and he ignores him. Asuka stating a rhetorical question is a pretty fucking obvious explanation of the outcome if Shinji continues. "Oh, no, I'm not trying to start another impact. I wonder why everyone's telling me to stop, though."

You're the autistic one if you think WILLE fucking abused him. Regardless of what he thinks of them, fucking Karl told him to stay away from the spears, and he doesn't listen.
>>
>>117411022
>He starts the impact by taking the spears, if Wille never showed up the exact same thing would have happened only sooner. Have you even seen the movie?
Have you seen the movie?

I'm not saying WILLE shouldn't have intervened. I'm saying that they intervened and fucked up their intervention. Because they also went again what the movie earlier establishes (don't make Shinji emotionally unabalanced in an EVA), it's only contrived and poorly written.
You have to choose to ignore this glaring flaw in it's plot.

Plus, if WILLE hadn't intervened - it could have gone better. At this time, they go down, and Shinji never becomes upset. There is never any pressure to get the spears, anyone trying to stop them, and they can take their sweet time.

This means Shinji never loses control, and Kaworu can just tell him that they need to do something else first, switch spears or get another, whatever that might be.

What is for certain is that WILLE's intervention made things worse.
>>
>>117411040
>you would understand that he thinks they're liars
Wow it's almost like that's what I've been saying the entire time. Talking isn't going to work when the other side is already convinced you're full of shit. You're not even making a point, you're just constantly backpedaling on what you think Wille did wrong in your fanfiction version of the movie.
>>
>>117411155
>Plus, if WILLE hadn't intervened - it could have gone better.
>it COULD have gone better

Now you're writing fucking fanficiton. Yeah, Shinji and Karl would've talked it out, then fucked in the Eva. Shinji doesn't stop after hearing the only person he trusts tell him multiple times it's a bad idea
>>
>>117411148
>Asuka isn't my fucking waifu, friend. He was already dead fucking set on removing the spears before she even showed up.
I don't care, you're acting retarded anyway.

You saying he was dead set on removing the spears does not change the fact that WILLE made him even more inclined to remove them.

WILLE also knows Shinji isn't trying to start an impact.

This was all completely pointless.

>>117411162
That Shinji is willing to talk proves that he's willing to listen. That if they were full of shit in the past, they can redeem themselves now. They didn't, they attacked.
>>
>>117411148
>Why would she pause her attacks? He's in a brand new Eva, she's in a piece of fucking scrap metal. She's in a deliberate disadvantage, and she's been told to stop him.

Because Shinji isn't attacking for one. Because he's trying to talk secondly. Thirdly and most importantly, Asuka never had to attack, because she knows it will escalate the situation where she has a potential friendly controlling the EVA.

>>117411212
Notice how that doesn't make part of my argument as I point out.
Try again.
>>
>>117411148
>Again, Kaworu is the only person he trusts, and he ignores him.
Because by then it's already too late. The fight has happened, and Kaworu ignoring Shinji only made things worse.

By the time Kaworu tells Shinji to not pull the spears, Shinji has already been attacked and insulted, becoming more desperate by Kaworu not helping him, and now he's lost control of his emotions.

Exactly like anyone not retarded would know happen.

It's like pissing off a bear or something, then getting angry at the bear for being pissed off.
>>
>>117411219
>That Shinji is willing to talk proves that he's willing to listen. That if they were full of shit in the past, they can redeem themselves now. They didn't, they attacked.
Cool fanfiction. That definitely wouldn't be totally convoluted and retarded. Go ahead and write that scene because I want to see how you think this would go down.
>>
>>117400979
You really dont get the point of Rebuild 3.33.
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>>117411219
You're seriously fucking delusional. I think your brain was out to lunch when you watched 3.0.

If Shinji didn't think he was doing anything wrong, why would he be more inclined to do it after people he was angry at showed up?

WILLE also has no fucking clue Shinji isn't trying to start an impact, you idiot. All they know is he's been taken to NERV and is now piloting a fucking Eva. THAT IS A BAD THING AND WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO KEEP FROM HAPPENING.

>>117411281
Shinji isn't trying to talk, he's fucking babbling about saving the world. She's not trying to kill him, she's trying to stop him, because she's been told that WHATEVER Shinji's going to do in an Eva will fuck everything up.

>>117411332
>Shinji acting irrationally for no reason should be picked up on by anyone

See, you're going around in fucking circles. Which is it? Shinji trusts Karl, Shinji thinks WILLE lied to him, he doesn't want to start an impact, he does want to start an impact, what is it? You've fucking deluded yourself into thinking that things happened a different way than they did because you're too busy self inserting into Shinji to notice.
>>
Why can't we all just get along?
>>
>>117411148
>You claiming that WILLE provoked Shinji into removing the spears is fanwank
That's the canon.

They're going down to pull the spears.
Asuka appears, and attacks.
Shinji tries to talk, but Asuka still attacks.
This means Shinji now has to increase efforts to get to the spears. Otherwise, they won't be able to do it at all. The situation gets more desperate. Here's a line that proves it:
01:11:30 {Shinji} Kaworu-kun, what happened to you?!
01:11:45 {Shinji} Asuka!
01:11:46 {Shinji} I'm begging you, stay out of the way!
01:11:49 {Asuka} Go down already, bratty Shinji!

Like you can see, nothing can stop Asuka from attacking and she won't talk to him. Kaworu isn't helping either.

01:11:57 {Asuka} You're kidding me!
01:11:58 {Asuka} Hey, Glasses! Throw me a spare!
01:12:07 {Shinji} Now's our chance to grab the Spears!

Now when Asuka is out of batteries and is changing, Shinji sees his chance to grab the spears. Kaworu isn't communicating until Shinji is desperate and almost there.

Do you not understand how this works?

If Shinji doesn't want to fight but to talk, there is every reason to start talking instead of fighting.
>>
>>117411357
>Cool fanfiction
It's the facts. Him trying to talk is proof that he's willing to listen. Him asking is proof that he, unlike the attacking WILLE, is trying to communicate.
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>>117411495
Write the scene then. Don't tell me "I'm not a writer" because you obviously have a very clear idea of how this would happen, unless you're just talking out of your ass.
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>>117411412
He has the most understanding of 3.33 ITT.
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>>117411456
Because a lot of people are retards who think they're smart for watcing Eva.

>>117411463
Shinji is deluded and has no idea what he's talking about, though. Once he finally gets to the spears, Karl tells him not to, and to stop. Shinji doesn't listen to the one person he supposedly trusts, AND he ignores a person who he's known a lot longer than a week, regardless of her actions. He decides to do whatever the fuck he wants.


>>117411495
He's fucking delusional, much in the same way you are. It's not worth trying to reason with him in that state.
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>>117411574
>>117411495
What are you guys even trying to say at this point?
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>>117399363
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>>117411449
>If Shinji didn't think he was doing anything wrong, why would he be more inclined to do it after people he was angry at showed up?
Tat doesn't make sense and you argue against yourself here.

>WILLE also has no fucking clue Shinji isn't trying to start an impact, you idiot.
They do. He says so, and he's trying to talk instead of starting one.

WILLE knows an impact WILL start if he loses control.

>See, you're going around in fucking circles. Which is it? Shinji trusts Karl, Shinji thinks WILLE lied to him, he doesn't want to start an impact, he does want to start an impact, what is it? You've fucking deluded yourself into thinking that things happened a different way than they did because you're too busy self inserting into Shinji to notice.

No that's you faggot. Put your money where your mouth is. I've proven and shown how this situation escalates and you ignore it every single time. You are delusional and retarded. Let me explain.

Shinji doesn't trust WILLE. Thus WILLE is full of shit.
Shinji trusts Kaworu. He's not full of shit, and he says it's OK to pilot an EVA.

Now, Shinji is unstable and WILLE knows it. If they provoke him in an EVA, bad things WILL happen.

So when they meet him, the first thing they do is attack. They still have a chance of redeeming the situation by listening to Shinji and explaining to him, but they don't.
They continue the attack.

Then, they lost. This causes Shinji to become unstable. He's desperate and he needs to grab the spears now more than ever.
He won't even listen to Kaworu, who is not seeming less trustworthy because he didn't help Shinji when he needed it, and that he takes back what he said about the spears.

They let this happen for no reason.

>>117411412
How come? That is an accurate portrayal of the motivations behind it.
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>>117411699
>that doesn't make sense

Shinji thinks he's helping everyone. Why would he be more inclined to do that if he's angry at WILLE? Them showing up did nothing, because Shinji was going to take the spears anyways.

Shinji was already unstable, you dumbass. HIM GETTING IN AN EVA WILL MAKE BAD THINGS HAPPEN REGARDLESS OF OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE

One of the first things they say to him is that he shouldn't get in an Eva. They're not going to try and listen to Shinji, because they don't know what the fuck he's been doing. They don't know if he's defected, if he's been brainwashed, whatever. He's a threat, and they need to stop him. Karl tells him not to, but he does anyway.
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>>117411332
Not him but Kaworu tells him they need two different spears when they get down there. Mari and Asuka hadn't arrived yet and Shinji dismisses Kaworu when he says something is wrong, and they should just go ahead and pull the spears anyway.
I understand and sympathize why Shinji was the way he was, as he was dead set on everyone liking him again, but something does tells me he really would have still pulled the spears and ignored everyone else if they had acted more rationally, because he so believed he was doing the right thing
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>>117411627
>Shinji is delusional
Now why is he delusional? Why is Shinji unstable and about to go nuclear?

Because Asuka attacks and provokes him. WILLE made a situation worse. You not being able to accept that, and how it ties so poorly into the previously established stuff in the scene makes YOU as delusional as Shinji.

Can you not even admit that it is a bad idea for WILLE to attack and provoke Shinji? Are you seriously going to argue that insulting him is a good idea? Was it necessary to do that rather than just attack if you insist an assault was necessary?`

No. The whole thing comically oversteps the necessary. There are no proper motivations or logic behind their actions.

See >>117411699

>>117411641
That WILLE fucked up big time. They know Shinji is emotionally unstable, they know he's dangerous when unstable, so them attacking him, insulting him or threatening him is absolutely fucked up.

I'm also saying it happens without any sort of reason, i.e it happens because it has to happen for the plot to progress. It's a transparent set of actions that reveal the script as poorly written and contrived. They're being idiots because otherwise the movie wouldn't work.

A nice wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_plot
>>
Discussing EVA is no fun.
Everyone takes it to the extreme.

Probably because 3.0 was so bad, it's hard to find any logic in anything anyone does.
Except kinda Shinji since he is going through a mental breakdown.

3.0+1.0 is going to redeem it though, right? RIGHT?
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>>117411860
Well you're an idiot and wrong.

You got the movie's sequence of events wrong. Kaworu only tells them the spears shouldn't be pulled after Mari and Asuka arrives.
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Making this obligatory for Rebuild discussions.
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>>117411945
I didn't say he told him to stop. I said he said something was wrong. He does say the spears are the same before Mari and Asuka are there, which should be a red flag to Shinji since Kaworu stated they needed two different ones.
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>>117411884
>Hey, let me link the wikipedia entry for "idiot plot" for the twentieth time! That'll show them I know what I'm talking about!

Shinji was fucking delusional because of Karl's influence on him, retard. You're not realizing the severity of the situation. On a battlefield, do you think they're going to try and talk it out? Shinji is moments away from starting another fucking impact, there's no time to sit down and talk it out.

>>117411945
>you're an idiot and you're wrong
Sounds like a valid argument. You can't decide to change the order of scenes to make your arguments make sense.
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>>117411921
>3+1 will redeem rebuild
Oh anon, you don't seriously expect that right?

>>117411953
Don't give Anno more ideas plese
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>>117411921
There are very clear lines of thinking in everything everyone does in 3.0 but they're not written as robots that are always perfectly logical in their actions.
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>>117411858
>Why would he be more inclined to do that if he's angry at WILLE? Them showing up did nothing, because Shinji was going to take the spears anyways.
[Citation needed]

It's also not an argument can make, as my argument is that WILLE provoked him into getting the spears. They made Shinji more desperate than he was.

>They're not going to try and listen to Shinji, because they don't know what the fuck he's been doing
Their mistake. Had they done so, things would be clearer and better.
They have literally no reason not to do so. Because they don't know what he's been doing, they should be interested in finding out.

Shinji is a threat, but you fail to take into account what kind of threat he is.

Shinji is a threat as they establish when he loses control inside an EVA. If they can keep him calm, they can neutralize the threat. This is logical, isn't it?
What's also logical is that attacking and insulting him will make things worse. Hence making the situation they don't want.

That's why WILLE fucked up.
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>>117411921
No.
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>>117400934
Maybe that its true, we know than Asuka and Mari are gonna fight the nemesis Series in the same Eva.
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>>117412039
>Shinji was fucking delusional because of Karl's influence on him, retard. You're not realizing the severity of the situation. On a battlefield, do you think they're going to try and talk it out?

You're not realizing the situation yourself. They aren't fighting unless they insist on fighting.

>Shinji is moments away from starting another fucking impact, there's no time to sit down and talk it out.
Bullshit. Shinji is trying to talk to them, not start an impact.

You have to accept being wrong here. The movie contradicts you. Watch it again.
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>>117412060
>citation needed

I got a citation for you, watch the fucking movie. BEFORE THEY EVEN SHOWED UP, he was trying to get the spears after Karl told him that something was wrong, and he had a bad feeling about it.
>they have literally no reason not to listen to an unstable kid who may or may not be working for their enemy

Yeah, I wonder why they didn't try to sit down with him and talk things out. They've known from the fucking beginning that if Shinji gets in an Eva, it's endgame.
>>117412106
He doesn't know he's starting an impact, you fucking moron, I've said that multiple times. Regardless of what he thinks, his actions will start an impact.
>>
>>117411953
Rebuild in a nutshell, sadly.
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>>117412038
Asuka attacks them right after that, and he says the spears have morphed, not that they can't be pulled or are wrong.
Everything is a red flag already.

It's only afterwards a long silence and not helping Shinji that Kaworu tells him not to pull them. If you want to be absolutely literal, then Kaworu says the spears are the same only with different shapes.

Shapes which by the way, can't be quite seen and Shinji does not know their shapes either.

This is because Kaworu never took the time to explain Shinji anything. Kaworu also made the worst plan ever.

>>117412039
>Sounds like a valid argument.
Might want to read the rest then chimp.
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>>117412215
Oh, I read the rest. You went on to say that Karl was all for pulling the spears out until the others show up. Only problem is that it's not fucking true, and it didn't happen. Karl was uneasy and telling Shinji as much before they even showed up.
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>>117412186
>He doesn't know he's starting an impact,
Neither does WILLE.

Because Shinji doesn't know he's starting one, nor Kaworu for that matter, they have every reason to try to explain what might happen.

His actions will only start an impact IF he pulls the spears, and therefore WILLE can just avoid giving him a reason to pull them. Because if they attack, he will be forced to try pulling them. That's also what happens.

Because he's also getting more unstable, it will get harder to reason with him. WILLE could have reasoned, but they didn't.

Same problem as in the beginning of the movie.
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>>117412287
Him being uneasy doesn't compare to how uneasy Shinji is. Fact is, Kaworu is not teling Shinji to not pull the spears until it is too late.
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>>117412215
>are wrong
Yes, he does. He straight-out says, "Something is wrong" and "This is odd" before saying they're the same shape. Shinji declares they should pull them anyway, THEN Asuka appears.
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>>117412215
>Kaworu also made the worst plan ever.
>LET ME BACKPEDAL AND BLAME LITERALLY EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE MOVIE BUT SHINJI NOW THAT MY ARGUMENT HAS BEEN CALLED OUT

>>117412307
>nor Kaworu

Are you joking? Karl knows exactly what was going to happen. WILLE knows that if Shinji gets in an Eva, an impact is close behind. That's all they need to know. They couldn't have reasoned with him, because he's in a position of power and he thinks he's right in doing it. If he thinks they're all liars, he'd pull the fucking spears either way.

>>117412364
Shinji is all fucking gung-ho to pull the spears, Karl is the one telling him that something's wrong with the spears, and something bad will happen. Karl later tells Shinji not to pull the fucking spears, but he does anyway. It wasn't "too late", Shinji just chose not to listen.
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>>117412186
>Yeah, I wonder why they didn't try to sit down with him and talk things out. They've known from the fucking beginning that if Shinji gets in an Eva, it's endgame.
Nice fanwank you got there. If it was already endgame, then fighting him would make no sense either.

You've been ignoring (and thus losing the entire argument this entire thread) that it is ESTABLISHED that WILLE knows this:

>If Shinji loses control of his emotions in an EVA, an impact might happen

Shinji when they meet him, does not yet appear to have lost control. He is sane, he is talking, and he doesn't want to fight.
01:08:57 {Shinji} Asuka!
01:09:00 {Shinji} What are you doing, Asuka?!

Even when Asuka attacks him, he does not fight back.

At this point, WILLE and thus Asuka would know that if they attack or insult him, things will get worse. When you attack or insult someone, you worsen things.

That leads to Shinji being in an EVA and losing control of his emotions, which is the actual endgame.
WILLE did at no point try to stop that.

>>117412467
>Yes, he does.
No he doesn't. He says something's wrong and odd, but he actually doesn't say the spears are wrong. That he does later.
It's too late at when he says it later and tells him not to directly.
>>
>>117412564
>he does not fight back
Pure bullshit. He attacks Asuka with his funnels right after she calls him a brat.
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>>117412471
>Kaworu also made the worst plan ever.
>LET ME BACKPEDAL
Yeah, nice to see that your argument is entirely composed on relating to things in my posts that are tangential. Fuck off.

You lost this one once you couldn't argue for yourself.

>Are you joking? Karl knows exactly what was going to happen.
Are you?
If he knew, he wouldn't have gone down there in the first place. He doesn't know until he gets down there.

>WILLE knows that if Shinji gets in an Eva, an impact is close behind.
Correct. They also know that it will only happen if they upset him while in the EVA. Which is also what happens.

They could have reasoned with him. They just don't try. That's the mistake here.

Shinji on the other hand, tries. That's what actually happens in the movie.
>>
>>117412564
It's human nature to fight for your own survival, and they wouldn't sit back and watch while Shinji triggered an impact. "endgame" doesn't literally mean the end of the world, it's along the lines of the "final stage". In this case, Shinji wanting to remove the spears was the final stage. Karl deliberately tells Shinji something's wrong with the spears, and he feels unsettled by it. He then later explicitly tells Shinji not the pull the fucking spears.
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>>117412471
Shinji doesn't listen because he's lost control. The others caused him to lose control. It's that simple.

Shinji is not reliable. The only reliable ones failed.
>>
>>117412665
Referring to earlier. Eventually he is forced to attack back.
>>
You faggots are arguing in circles.
Asuka was in the right.
There was an unknown NERVE Eva trying to initiate 4th impact.
No one is going to maintain a perfectly clear state of mind when the world is moments from going to hell.
>>
>>117412780
So he does fight back and you were talking out your ass.
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>>117401338
To be fair thier relationship is more about Frienship than Romance.
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>>117412665
>Pure bullshit. He attacks Asuka with his funnels right after she calls him a brat.
Yeah, but that's after Shinji has been attacked several times over. He doesn't fight back at first, but Asuka keeps attacking so he has to anyway.

The whole point is that Asuka calling him a brat was unnecessary and contrary to WILLE's own stated goals, not to mention common sense.
Insulting Shinji and threatening him is a surefire way to start an impact.

Why Asuka does it is beyond comprehension. It's just bad writing.
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>>117412704
>It's human nature to fight for your own survival, and they wouldn't sit back and watch while Shinji triggered an impact.
Too bad that's not what happens in 3.0.

If Shinji is standing still and trying to talk, they don't have to attack. To fight for your survival in this case, because they know attacking will make things worse, had to mean negotiating instead.
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>>117412787
>No one is going to maintain a perfectly clear state of mind when the world is moments from going to hell.
Which brings me to one point which made me feel annoyed, this fucking bitch, she was okay with everything that was going down there, she gasped a bit when her special bullet didn't work but after that she was at it again, sipping some tea actually.
She even says she is in interested in seeing shit going down, what the hell is up with Misato to keep her around?
>>
>>117412669
>If they make him upset while in the EVA
That's not what happened last time. Do you fucking morons think WILLE gave Asuka a script to follow?

>>117412724
Shinji is the only one in fucking control, and he doesn't listen to anyone.


>>117412787
NO BUT SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO HIM IT'S EVERYONE'S FAULT BUT SHINJI'S

>>117412915
Shinji is more powerful than them. He's also talking about doing something that will cause a fucking impact. There's no negotiation when you're in a fucking Eva, as you must have noticed over the last twenty fucking years.
>>
>>117412852
Not talking out of my ass. Read my entire post instead of taking things out of context. Please notice that I mention everything in sequence. At that point, he does not attack back.

Too bad that's the only way you can pretend to "win" any argument.
>>
>>117412975
>That's not what happened last time. Do you fucking morons think WILLE gave Asuka a script to follow?
They have the knowledge.

Asuka fucked it up.
>>
>>117401475
Pokanami was a Good Idea, its a shame than Khara not make a better work with the Shinji and Rei scenes, If only they have an scene like the Piano scene of 3.33.
>>
>>117413018
He wasn't upset the last time he started an impact. He's fucking impulsive and doesn't listen to anyone, it doesn't matter what his mood is, if he's in an Eva, it's all over.

>Shinji's innocent, it's everyone else's fault
>>
>>117412787
She was in the wrong. Said EVA was not unknown, it had Shinji in it which she could try to talk down. She didn't, and got her ass kicked.

>>117412975
>That's not what happened last time. Do you fucking morons think WILLE gave Asuka a script to follow?
What are you talking about?

WILLE knows damned well that Shinji getting upset will fuck things up. So therefore Asuka fucked up even with that knowledge. It's common sense.


>Shinji is the only one in fucking control, and he doesn't listen to anyone.
He wants to listen, but nobody is talking to him or explaining. Only attacking. So that's false.
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