>It feels like the Japanese animation system and the animators are deadlocked right now. I particularly feel that in the Japanese animation industry. I want something that can help to break through that deadlock. It’s not something that will just appear if you wait long enough. So I teamed up with Kawakami to see if we could come up with a new project like that, something that would tear down the current state of things. It’s like a resistance. Even if we do it, the animation industry won’t change. We know it won’t change, but we just can’t help but do something. At this rate, the animation industry will decline, and rather than wait for that to happen, we’d rather fight against it until the end with all we’ve got. That’s how I feel.
>──How do you see the current state of the Japanese animation industry? Where is it headed? What needs to happen before it can progress?
>I think the Japanese animation industry will begin to decline. It's past its peak. It will be in decline for a while and once it hits bottom, it will rise up again. What I'm most worried about is whether or not there will be enough people left to lift it back up at that point. Most animation production companies have just barely enough staff. With these conditions, it's only a matter of time before things fall apart. Maybe five years, maybe 10. Most people are saying that it won't last 20 years. Five years at the earliest, 20 at the latest.
>...I don't know how the economy will turn out, but the number of animators is steadily decreasing. If less people are working in the animation industry, things will naturally taper off. It probably won't be an environment that lets us do the same type of interesting work that we can do now. But I think other countries in the world will take our place. I think animation will certainly live on somewhere, just not necessarily in Japan.
Anime director and writer Yasuhiro Imagawa sees a dead end looming in front of the world of anime. Echoing critics of a lot of popular television in America, he sees too much of the same thing being repeated in different shows. Once a show or genre becomes popular, it gets copied to the point that it becomes difficult to tell one show from another; only the names seem different. In terms of technique this has improved things, as each show learns from the previous ones. But Mr. Imagawa sees this as only superficial growth, not the internal growth of stories and themes needed to sustain the art form. A flashy character design and good drawings can't make up for a bad story. As a result, he no longer watches much TV anime.
He spends much more of his time watching American and European dramas cinema which he feels has depth and substance. He agrees that this repetition in anime is leading to a narrowing of Japanese TV audiences' tastes. And like a food bias, this leads to a vicious cycle. Without exposure to other types of shows, audiences are less likely to "brave them" and give them a fair shot. Without confidence in a potential audience, producers are unlikely to make these "risky" shows. So audiences are not exposed to them, and and the cycle continues.
Q) The animation industry in Japan seems to be stagnant while in China and Korea, there looks to be a comparative amount of growth. What are your thoughts regarding the situation?
A) I concur. The biggest reason I feel so far is the Japanese industry has stopped nurturing their own talents.
"My great teacher, Tomino, the creator of Gundam, taught me something very important. if you continue to make a copy of a copy of a copy, eventually the image degrades to nothing. Anime has become almost disposable, like a seasonal product. It can hurt seeing something you created selling used for a few yen on Amazon. Us creators should strive to make anime that people will hold onto and love for years."
The Japanese still hold a good amount of pride in their ANIMATORS. Backgrounds and the like are quite often done by Koreans, but it is still very rare to see Korean names under the 原画 tag.
>Student Questioner: What genres of anime do you dislike?
>Anno: Works that are specifically moe, and horror. I am no good with horror, or with haunted houses.
>You said you dislike moe, but isn't Asuka moe?
>Anno: When I did the TV series, there was as yet no such thing as moe. I like Sailor Moon as well.
Asuka (and all Eva females) are special in a sense that all her merchandise is bought by otaku faggots who's love towards her is based on their shitty headcanon and not an actual character. Nobody has ever been moe fodder in old Evas.
How many more years are we going to have to listen to people saying that anime is dead, dieing and declining?
If my generation is the only one watching anime, I dont care if anime dies with me.
Whether the threads are fun or not is irrelevant.
The truth is that anime is healthy when it has shows that stand on their own. Some adaptations are good, but when it's nothing but adaptations anime as a medium becomes secondary to manga/LNs and thus begins to die.
There are less animators because they are being replaced with technology.
I don't think the number of anime made per year has ever been this high.
Thats not whats wrong with anime. You are close but pointed in the wrong direction. The only thing wrong with anime is the over production of it.
Studios having to use any and all material they can get their hands on, such as LNs, is only an effect of that.
20 years ago, they had about 10 anime per season. Now theres 20 minimum on a bad season.
funny meme guys!
>literally every anime producer and their mother says that there are not enough skilled animators left in Japan
>rampant use of CG because it's cheaper and easier and there are more people skilled in and more training resources available for 3D animation
>birthrates in decline, hikki rates up, both contributing to less people willing to become animators
>government funded programs like Anime mirai intended to try to curb this problem
>the obvious fact that everything looks like shit now
>/a/: "Nah, everything's fine!"
manga will never die just because of the format and how easy it is to now digitally create, manage and distribute
watch manga catch fire properly in us once SJW's stop being faggots about Japan and nipps decide to finally pursue over-seas markets, same with Europe
Animators don't get paid much s at all for the amount of worked that is required. So you get a bunch of jaded people who take short cuts.
It's the difference between something like space dandy and sailor Moon crystal or some shitty kids anime like pretty cure. You can tell which one the animators had fun doing and put effort in, which affects the quality.
the day studios start trying to appeal to western and european audiences is the day anime dies
except maybe if the French, Finnish or eastern europeans get their hands on it first
It's like an obligatory thing to complain about the anime industry if you're a known director.
However, Hideaki Anno has ZERO right to complain. His latest Rebuild movie gives him no right to complain about anything whatsoever regarding "decline in anime industry", since it's chock full of pandering, moe and everything commercial he claims is killing it.
Never before has a movie been so deeply influenced by otaku (or the female variant, fujoshi) than the crap he's been shitting out.
This is also his greatest hit, it's THE work that put him among the stars as far as directors in anime go.
Anno doesn't get to say shit without admitting he's also helping the thing decline.
Anno isn't complaining about what kind of anime is made but about how it is made from a commercial point of view (studios don't take a lot of risks anymore) and how the number of animators is supposedly dropping.
The rebuild moves do not contradict what Anno is saying.
Did you even read what you he said? Did you even glance over it? He never said 'moe is killing the industry' or 'pandering'. None of those words were used.
The problem he has with the anime industry is that the fucking studios are shrinking. The isn't a lot of new talent coming in who wants to work in animation more and more of it gets outsourced to other asian countries.
Anime is also failing to capture new audiences. It's money from oversea's sales is not significant (yes I know you watched cowboy bebop on toonami and pirated the dvds, that's pocket change). In their own country anime has a negative stigma, only a handful of mega shows (pretty cure, one piece, Eva, and a few old classics like Lupin) are considered 'normal'. Most of their money comes from the obsessed fan market which is actually a SHRINKING market. The otaku market cannot sustain the growth of the industry because otaku them self are declining in number.
The rebuild movies, whether you like them are not, are a shining example of how to save the industry. They were huge commercial ventures bringing in lots of new employees into the bussiness and the Eva franchise has a huge following from more than just the otaku.
This isn't about your fucking waifus and whether 'moe is ruining the industry' its about basic economics. No employees+shrinking customer base=bad news
>The isn't a lot of new talent coming in who wants to work in animation more and more of it gets outsourced to other asian countries.
The talent is not coming in BECAUSE of outsourcing.
Who wants to be in a field where there are no jobs, the job market is shrinking and will continue to shrink and it will eventually even be completely replaced by 3d since it's even cheaper.
That's what pretty much killed the animation biz in the US in the last decade or so.
I hope that it collapses. For one I'll have more time to clear my backlog, for two independent and experimental animation will skyrocket or at least have more exposure. And potentially will allow for growth in the field that you don't see when everyone is copying everyone else.
>Anno isn't complaining about what kind of anime is made but about how it is made from a commercial point of view (studios don't take a lot of risks anymore)
That's what I'm also saying. ANno makes them from a commercial point of view.
>and how the number of animators is supposedly dropping.
Gee, maybe if he wasn't like everyone else paying them absolute shit. It's a bad career for people who want money, you know like literally everyone else.
That doesn't answer the question of why the amount is increasing. It is nonsensical to make more of something for a smaller fanbase. You would increase output to meet an increased demand for your product not to cater for falling demand.
>The rebuild moves do not contradict what Anno is saying.
They do. If you had read what he's been saying, now and lately, it's that anime is declining due to it being made from a commercial point of view.
Which is exactly what his new Rebuild movies are. They are by far the most commercial anime products being made since I can remember pretty much. Both in advertising and post-show merchandising.
Precisely because Anno is at the fucking vanguard of the anime industry making fujoshi and otaku-pandering garbage, no new audiences are captured and everyone else is forced to follow in his footsteps because they can't compete otherwise.
The shrinking studios, the lack of animators, everything is due to Anno.
The Rebuilds are NOT saving the industry for shit, it is downright ruining it by being exactly the commercial abominations Anno is criticizing. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, you're spinning fairy tales about how Anno making anime brings in animators or other employees which other anime SOMEHOW DO NOT. Which is fucking bullshit.
Anno remaking his old success story and basically turning it into waifu garbage isn't helping. It's making things worse, retard.
>But he's taking risks
Such as? There's no fucking risk in pandering as much as he does and making it as commercial as he's done. There's no risk in sticking to a safe franchise like Evangelion that is GUARANTEED to bring in money.
Get your head out of your ass.
Have you been watching the new anime? Have you looked at a fucking chart?
The vast majority of new anime is based off a VN, video game, or LN. These anime typically LOSE money on sales but make a profit because the studio is payed upfront by another company to advertise their book or game. In other words they are glorified commercials.
Also look at the fucking quality of shows made. It's quantity over quality. Most shows run for 13 episoides with no s2 instead of the usualy 26+ that used to be more common. Let's also not forget the massive increase in 5 minute shows.
Look at one of those sales charts posted every once awhile, anime that sells below 2k is genually something that loses money and if you pay attention you will see more than of any anime in a given season is below 2k.
Well off companies tend to produce quality over quantity. Look at kyo-ani. I don't care if you hate them but it's a fact they spend more $ on each frame than just about any other TV studio. Because of this they produce the fewest shows each year and they are almost always well above the 2k selling point, usually one of the top performers.
Crossing tangents for a minute, I do think Anno has a point, when, in particular, looking @ stuff like Sailor Moon Crystal. Given @ this point alot of the SM fandom has realized how Crystal is hardly trying, boiler plate flimsily-made material that doesn't do the source material justice or isn't on par with the previous animated adaptation, I would put the blame on the committee responsible for Crystal for not putting the resources necessary to not do injustice to one of the most world-renowned and popular franchises.
they're still too retarded for trying to market it over seas too
while sitting on a fucking gold mine too since fandoms across the west have shown that there are people willing to consume their shit
You really aren't answering the question. Only a nutcase would think 'Nobody likes potatoes anymore, quick lets keep increasing the production of potatoes!" and expect anything good to come of it. The only reason you would keep increasing production is because of increasing demand for the product.
>I can't rebuke his argument
>I'll call him stupid!
Excellent counter-point anon! You sure didn't reveal yourself as a butthurt amoeaba, and accidentally validate his point in the same process by showing that people who disagree can't rebuke him!
>With short-form animation, you have a higher level of freedom. But with longer projects, you often have to make back the cost of production. The more money something costs, the less freedom you have. We want to avoid that restriction and try to create a platform that allows people the freedom to make short-form works however they want.
Anno is talking about anime declining due to restrictions on creative freedom in the production process. He is not talking about merchandising. He is not talking about advertising.
The fact you can't even read properly enough to figure this out shows how much of a real shit for brains piece of fucking trash you are. Instead of making up some bullshit strawman, actually engage his fucking argument. Go fuck yourself you dumb cunt.
They're increasing production because they can't stop making anime or they'll just go under
So they keep shitting out low budget adaptations that they know will at least make their money back just so that they can stay afloat
Let's see, Anno is saying that "anime is declining" because it's made with too much consideration of the commercial aspect. That's fine I suppose, but you're saying that Rebuild has nothing to do with it?
WHAT? FUCKING WHAT?!
Have you even watched the fucking things? Not that you'd have to, because they are being advertised FUCKING EVERYWHERE along with copious commercial add-in products.
I guess if you actually watched them you'd see how bad it actually is.
So tell me, how does his Rebuild movies "capture new audiences" when it's only concerned about catering to fat girls fantasizing about gay couples or fat boys fantasizing about legal girls (canonically 28 years old now people!) with the body of a 14 year old again?
This is even forgetting the fucking fact that Evangelion is massively popular and literally everything labeled Evangelion sells like nothing else. Put "NERV" on something and it's a sure sell. People would love everything from NERV condoms to NERV handkerchiefs. These products already exist and they sell.
So studios are shrinking and there are less animators? Well, look at Anno go then, making just 3DCG bullshit and using existing workforces through outsourcing and hiring professionals.
Anno is the source of the problem he's complaining about nowadays.
Anno has commented on this from various angles before, what you cite being only the most recent.
The fact that you can't pay attention to the industry and what's going on in it, what Anno says and has done, means you're not equipped to give a single comment. Get the fuck out.
You are thinking about this backwards. The studios customer is not me and you it is the production committee. As long as there is demand from publishers from anime to keep getting made it keeps getting made regardless of the size of the fanbase, thus even with a declining fanbase the number of adaptations can still continue to increase as long as publishers want anime.
Have you even been paying attention lately? I read that post (and yours, fuck you're mad) and I got what he means. Anno has been on the floor speaking out against decline in anime recently, and what he's talking about here is about his recently announced project, not the actual reasons behind it.
He's been on the floor talking about commercial aspects of it as a negative earlier. How about you stop being so mad, start reading up on the history of these events before you comment.
There was no way this thread could've been anything other than shitposts. Why do so many of you even give a fuck about a declining niche industry in a foreign country?
miyazaki is a clever son of a bitch, he mostly draws cute girls in cute situations but somehow managed to trick everyone into thinking he's a feminist
Cause it's funny seeing Anno being a hypocrite about it.
>spend his years ruining his own best franchise by dumbing it down and changing it to cater to otaku/fujoshi niches
>almost does nothing else
>then goes on a tirade about the decline in anime
Hilarious. If Anno shot himself today after locking down EVA as an IP, anime would be better off.
'too much consideration of the commercial aspect'
He never says that retard. Anime is supposed to make money. The issue is expanding the audience.
Eva is actually panders less than other shows. Watch 5 minutes of any ecchi or harem show if you want to proof. Besides that, from a purely econimic perspective (which is what anno is talking about) it doesn't matter what the content of a show is.
The thing about Eva is that it was massively successful with people other than otaku. It was a mainstream success.
Do you know how uncommon that is anime?
What are anime that the average person in japan will actually watch? There's the prime-time kids stuff (pretty cure being the biggest one), there's Eva, and there's Miyazaki.
Everything else is for the Otaku.
In business you need to expand or eventually die off. Trying to sell all your products to the same niche audience (otaku) can't work out in the long run.
Outside of Miyazaki japan doesn't make much money over sea's. In it's home country anime has a huge stigma.
What the anime studio needs to survive is ambitious projects that bring in tons of new talent (thats what the old OVA market was), more ambitious work needs more people. They also need to appeal to people in their country other than Otaku.
That's the commercial side of it. Massive pandering, massive advertisement, massive fan hype.
Actual mainstream movies like One Piece and what not outright shits on Evangelion.
Frozen, a Disney movie makes Evangelion look like a late-night moe fanservice anime.
Evangelion is an established, popular franchise.
>Finish the sentence you faggot.
>Nowadays EVA is only unique in how it's a gigantic sellout franchise.
This sentence, especially the use of the word "nowadays", implies that you think that EVA used to be an unique show, but NOWADAYS it's only unique in the sense that it sold well (because other anime that came after it did the same things).
>The issue is expanding the audience.
Which he fails at doing with Evangelion due to how much it panders. So now.
>Eva is actually panders less than other shows.
Don't agree at all, you can pick worse examples for almost everything but that in itself doesn't prove that Eva panders less.
There's almost always one show that panders more.
>What the anime studio needs to survive is ambitious projects that bring in tons of new talent (thats what the old OVA market was), more ambitious work needs more people. They also need to appeal to people in their country other than Otaku.
Which Anno does not do. Even his latest involvement in the animator expo project is going to do fuck all, as these small projects has been doing nothing before.
His Rebuild movies aren't the original Evangelion series you say became a mainstream sucess. Rebuild is coasting on that mainstream success and is becoming massively lucrative because he is now pandering to otaku and fujoshi niches. Anno is contributing through his own movies to that negative stigma by showing underage naked tits, boobs and ass, even venus mounds wherever he can into the movies he makes.
He's not helping.
In Gundam's defense, it is a toy commercial.
But if we're talking profitability and recognizability, Gundam > Evangelion by a large margin.
Reminder that picture related is not a photoshop.
Read the discussion above for context. He's claiming Rebuild isn't niche because it sold well at the box office.
>He never says that retard
He said so in a recent interview actually.
>”The Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end — it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations,” Anno said in explaining his support of the project. “It may even be too late.”
Congratulations on showing everyone you don't what you're talking about, though I'm sure that could be divined from your post already.
And yet he enables them by making merchandise, even going as far as rewriting his characters to have more moe traits and making an entirely new character. Just so he can make more money off merchandise
The mainstream don't care about Gundam anime. They recognize Gundam by gunpla not the anime. just look at the boxoffice of Zeta trilogy and 00 movies. it's Nanoha late night level box office, It's a joke comapred to Evangelion movie.
Anime was saved already!
I'm talking about broadening their products instead of developing them with the sole purpose of selling in japan. That happens in the vidya as well as in their anime industry.
Why the fuck does Eva have to be shoehorned into the genre of "mecha"? The show was primarily about its characters, not about giant robots fighting each other.
I bet you think Hyouka was about its mysteries too, you fucking moron.
you know, I think the reason why anno say shit like this is because inflammatory criticizing gets his news to be discussed and reposted everywhere and his name to stay relevant
He's literally click baiting, that clever kike
Except Video game currently has an alternative called Indie produxtion, same as indie movies
But ova, a form of indie anime which producer can freely express their artisitc mind, is slowly dying
>In a post-modern city torn by street violence, sex is prohibited because of a deadly genetical virus infecting the entire population.
Lol, I bet Wizardchan would get a chuckle out of the concept.
tfw Wizard of full rank ;_;
>We need to rekindle the passion for working in the anime industry of the Japanese!
>Oh i know, let's create an anime about the nightmares and stress caused by working in an anime producing company
>It's called Shirobako
>Oh make sure this episode gives the spectators PTSD
>literally a 100% 3DCG singing movie BTFOs Japans "#1" Evangelion
Rebuild 3.33 only has the pretense of having some sort of message, heck even a plot. At the core it's just pandering to fujoshi and otaku, disappointing every single one of the audience members that thought it would be a serious movie when they walked in.
It doesnt matter if its shit
it makes profit, and theres new blood because people see how successful minecraft is and they have an optimism to earn that much regardless if minecraft is a rare diamond
But for anime, no new blood becuase people only see hopelessness
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I genuinely believe that we won't see another golden age of anime, and that another country (most likely American) will take whats good about Japanese animation and apply it from here on out.
I just think it's inevitable. The Toonami generation is either still in college or just graduating. We haven't even begun to see the true influence anime has had on American animation.
I think what Japan has done is create almost a subset of anime. The otaku pandering shit, they shouldn't even fight against it at this point. Just embrace it and keep making those shows, while studios outside of Japan push the medium forward.
Because there is no market to support them.
No one in the west would be willing pay $300 for 12 episodes on BDs of something that they already saw on TV just to support the studio like Japs do, and these shows don't have the mainstream appeal to survive on advertisements alone.
>Taking the word of Japanese George Lucas
I shiggy diggy
Seriously though, did anyone think that anime wouldn't get to this point? It happened with western animation, in which everything was being commercialized, packaged, and shipped for consumption by the lowest common denominator. Hence moeshit, shounenshit, and kiddieshit being the most popular genres.
Saw it coming from a mile away. Maybe it'll have a "rise from the ashes" moment eventually, sorta like western animation tried to have.
Ironically, the merchandise that seems to sell the most comes from shows that try to give a legitimate emotional connection to a character. So pandering is actually counter-productive.
Anno doesn't think moe existed back in the day.
>Student Questioner: What genres of anime do you dislike?
>Anno: Works that are specifically moe, and horror. I am no good with horror, or with haunted houses.
>You said you dislike moe, but isn't Asuka moe?
>Anno: When I did the TV series, there was as yet no such thing as moe. I like Sailor Moon as well.
>Do you seriously believe that there's a bigger market for anime in america than there is in Japan?
Demographically, yes. Absolutely. But eyeballs are hard to monetize, when it's an overseas market.
But in terms of net profitability, it's been a tough row to hoe since the bubble burst in 2008.
Netflix backs a lot of original content, and has produced two cartoons. The Turbo spin-off and Bojack Horseman, not to mention dabbling in recently aired anime like the curiously labeled "Netflix Original" Knights of Sidonia. If there was a bigger audience I bet Netflix would fund and distribute original "late-night styled" anime(or anime-esque products).
>it'll have a "rise from the ashes" moment eventually, sorta like western animation tried to have.
Western animation didn't try, they did. Coming out of the 80s when all cartoons were just pushing toys(this is not to say that its successors did not that) or Scooby Doo clones. For perspective, this is when anime was getting a bigger presence in the west with Akira. Disney got out of its slump, and notably started experimenting with CG. You had Steven Spielberg producing stuff like Tiny Toon Adventures, Animaniacs and Freakazoid. Not to mention more adult fare like the Simpsons and South Park.
The key feature with the TV cartoons in the 90s is that the people running the show grew up on the zany, zeitgeist-minded cartoons of the 50s-70s, and so you see the influences in their products, e.g. basically anything Genndy Tartakovsky worked on.
I think I see now where Anno is coming from, the lack of fresh blood and an environment to cultivate creativity. Then again, the west's renaissance only came after the collapse of the studios and a good few years of only being able to target certain demographics.
>Disney got out of its slump, and notably started experimenting with CG. You had Steven Spielberg producing stuff like Tiny Toon Adventures, Animaniacs and Freakazoid. Not to mention more adult fare like the Simpsons and South Park
And what happened after that? By the mid-2000's it was back to 11-minute commercials. The "renaissance" barely lasted a decade.
The death of the Saturday morning cartoon and having cartoons on weekdays with the advent of online and streaming. executives are running like headless chickens with no clue how to run things and the return live action sitcoms being viable again though I'm starting to see a slow return with kickstarter though it's too early to tell if we are out of the dark age
Its not outsourcing that is killing anime. It's the producers who only back well known adaptations of games, novels, manga, etc. They are not putting out anything original. Even Hollywood is in the same bind. You see nothing but remakes and sequels. No one takes risks and is afraid of failure. Also, it's not like you need a huge staff to make anime. Look at Makoto Shinkai and his early works. He did it all by himself with his girlfriend.
You still had some pretty good productions around '04, '05. Starting from the late 80s, that's only a little under 20 years, which isn't bad. Shit can't last forever and it's not like animation was the only thing hurting financially in the late '00s.
Not to mention by the turn of the century, more animated films than ever, as well as CGI and Flash being more wide-spread that pretty much any asshole can produce something.
Basic business. Lower price, but more customers.
If you want a bigger, more varied market, then BD's aren't the way to go. Only a fanatic would splurge on a goddamned BD. The high price point is turning people away.
Yes and no. You could try and increase demand by lowering the price (i.e. reducing the costs of producing BDs). However, some shows simply wouldn't get bigger audience.
> Only a fanatic would splurge on a goddamned BD
Exactly. Some genres would benefit from this, but anime as a whole, is meant to be for fanatics.
It's not as clear cut as you think.
Oh, I fucking love exaggerations.
Majority of names in the credits are still Japanese names. I don't what anime you're watching but the outsource Korean animators are just a minority compared to the Japanese staff.