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Time to choose, /a/.
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You are currently reading a thread in /a/ - Anime & Manga

Thread replies: 366
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Time to choose, /a/.
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>>116556833
Rider a shit
>>
Kill that ho

Like I care about fateshit
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>>116556833
Rider a fucking shit.
>>
I tried that and Rider killed Shirou.
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But thou must
>>
Let's be honest here. We all tried to kill Sakura on our first try, right?
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>>116556833
But if I kill Sakura, how will I reach the True End?
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The REAL question, /a/.
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>>116557565
The Good End is better.
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>>116557565
>normal end not MoS
Ya goof'd.
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>>116557565
>>116557635
Shut up, you're both wrong, let me finish.
>>
Should I rewatch the KnK movies?
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>>116557693
You could rewatch the recap version
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>>116557686
Why are the new DLCs so inferior? Only the MoS route was good.
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>>116557686
>>116557776
>MoS
Epic maymay.
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>>116556833
this is like the only tiger dojo i got to wanted to end that shit right then and there but perfection got in the way
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>>116558474
Her tits look really saggy.
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>>116557776
Shield of Ulster is pretty good
That warp spasm at the end
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>>116557693
Go for it anon, it has best girl
>>
Why were the fate and heaven's feel routes so shitty? Saber and Sakura's problems were so damn annoying to deal with.and it didn't help how Shirou was basically nothing more then a hero for both of them..
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>>116558474
Rider is not THAT meaty.
>>
>>116559361

>didn't help how Shirou was basically nothing more then a hero for both of them..

Considering they both saved and wanted to protect him, which was why he cherished them both, your assertion is wrong.
>>
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>>116560124
Sakura only wanted semen, though.
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>>116560314
It's stupid bullshit things like those that made the route so damn hard to chug through. You can't write a fucked up backstory on character then make her a crazy whore. Who would want to save that?!
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>>116560490
Jesus.
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>>116558604
Warp Spasm is the bad end, you should have known as much when he told you it would take three command seals to control him whilst under it. Why would you make him activate it without getting the command seals from koto first ?

Broken Geas is the best end He said he'd come back Anon, now i kinda know how Sakura felt during the HF normal end
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>>116560537
Would you really save her? I mean seriously consider it knowing what would happen? Nobody should ever choose selfish reasons over the needs of the many. To do so is scumbag level evil.
>>
Why is rest of the magus world so uninterested in the holy grail wars?
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>>116560565
Shield of Ulster a shit, Alamut Reminiscence was the best route.
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>>116560565
I know but it was the best bad end.
It was utterly horrifying
I cried when Liath Macha was the only thing coming back in broken geis
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>>116560654
are you really a man? cause if you are you should know that the little head is sometimes more powerful than the big head when it comes to making decisions
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>>116560694
they don't know of the "secret" way to use it to archieve the 3rd magic
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>>116560654
>Nobody should ever choose selfish reasons over the needs of the many. To do so is scumbag level evil.

I agree about killing Sakura, but insult my waifu again and you're dead.
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>>116560694
Because old family snobbery, too much Church involvement, not even 100% certain it could lead them to The Root.
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>>116560654
Everyone does that.
You need to be a pretty twisted individual to sacrifice someone you love for the sake of "the world".
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>>116560694
It's not like everyone is a mage-warrior. Most of them probably have their own magic projects and research too.
>>
[X] Kill Sakura
Reload save.
[X] Kill Sakura
>>
>>116560694
>>116560886
>>116560929
When a mage finds a possible path to the root, they dont fucking advertise that shit to everyone else. That being said, the ritual does require a few magician contestants to be tricked into participating, so it cant be completely secret.
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>>116560947
Or you're just selfish and hang out with self-centered people.
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>>116561065
Or you don't know shit about human nature.
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>>116560915
Fuck whoever that is. If she's a problem killing her would be the best solution.

>>116560947
You need to be pretty sick to allow innocent people to die for your selfish love.
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>>116561168
>Fuck whoever that is

Are you fucking serious?
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>>116561216
Yeah I'm fucking serious. Who the fuck is that and why the fuck should I care?
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>>116561121
>human nature
In other words, you buy into some shitty model of humans and are ignorant.

Might as well claim that people don't give their lives for larger causes too. Or that anyone who does is "twisted"
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>>116561065
>>116561168
So you are telling me you would sacrifice your parents, your sister or whatever member of your family you want to think of for the sake of protecting the world.
Why do they have to die if they are innocent too? Fuck the world, it's not even so nice to deserve being saved.
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>>116561289
It's basically a case of them dying now do to my action or dyning later due to my inaction which is exactly what would of happened had IIya and Shirou farted out the bullshit DEM they did at the end of HF.
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>>116561285
Giving your life for a large cause and sacrificing other people's lives for a large cause are completely different things.
You have the right to do whatever the fuck with your life but what makes you think you have the right to decide if someone who didn't even want to cause any harm should die or not?
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>>116561289
Empathy, man. Shirou even does it manually in one scene, hearing the news about people disappearing in Fuyuki and replacing all the strangers' names with people he knew.
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>>116561264
Did you come on /a/ because Naruto was ending by any chance ?
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>>116561389
Not really, since a lot of the larger causes in history involve fighting other people who oppose it.

Also, someone who is killing everyone around you, involuntarily or not, has no grounds for bitching about "right to life".
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>>116561390
But Shirou didn't kill Sakura.
He admitted he was a allowing innocents to die and promised to attone for that shit but even so he wouldn't care the most important person for him.
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>>116557686
>Mind of still: true end
I'm confused, isn't "return to the spring" the true end?
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>>116561533
Why? It's not his or her fault that for some fucked up reason that person was forced to cause other people to die.
Everyone would expect you to kill yourself for the better good and its fine if you do it, but I don't see why wishing to continue living would be such a horrible thing.
Fate fucked you up, but if you are innocent then you have the same right to live as anyone else.
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>>116556833
What happens if you choose to kill her?
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>>116561585
Yeah. HF was the story about Shirou throwing away his ideals and choosing the selfish path.
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Did Sakura enjoy getting fucked by Shinji?
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>>116561777
You get the evidence that rider is shit.
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>>116561406
None of your business.
>>116561670
>ut I don't see why wishing to continue living would be such a horrible thing.
>Fate fucked you up, but if you are innocent then you have the same right to live as anyone else.
Not when your very existence causes people to fucking die! I bet you think people with Ebola don't deserve to be quarantined so the rest of us don't get it.
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>>116561917
Yeah. Doesn't matter who is fucking her, she enjoys dicks and semen.
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>>116561988
Why would I oppose them getting quarantined? If you said I oppose them getting killed they I do, but I don't see what's wrong with puting them into quarantine.
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>>116562092
How can people defend such a slut?
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>>116562142
Because she is their waifu and worms I guess.
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>>116562097
And what if they couldn't be quarantine'd would you still be opposed to killing them?
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>>116562251
You can always send them to a faraway place or something.
They aren't fucking zombies, you know. I doubt they would have any problem with living away from healthy humans until a cure is found or something.
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>>116562097
Would you be against euthanizing/killing people that got bitten by Zombies?
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>>116561670
The person is still the direct cause of others' deaths. Demanding to live is the same as accepting others being killed because of yourself. But if you accept that, then you have no basis for complaining about someone taking a similar stance and killing you.
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>>116562371
I thought we were talking about choosing to kill other people.
My point is that I would gladly kill myself if I am causing other people to die (or so I think, I don't know which kind of stance will I take if it ever happens) but I would never take the right to live from someone else if they are innocent.
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>>116561809
In a way, Shirou has decided to take the hardest hit of them all - win a Wormslut.
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>>116562367
I would just wait for them to transform into zombies and kill them either while they are transforming or right after they do.
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>>116557776
>Argon coin
>Inverted kibis
>Mind of steel is true route
How do i get those?
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>>116562329
Like anyone would give enough shits to look for a cure. We'll just forget about them til maybe they starve themselves or we use them for our entertainment like Death Race or Norma Island.
>>
Shirou either survives by pummeling the shit out of Kotomine, or dies leaving Sakura alone for the rest of her life. There you go.
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>>116562649
I'm pretty sure you would give a fuck if someone close to you had ebola.
No one gives a fuck about random african niggers and I never expected anyone to do it.
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>>116562515
We are. The logic was pointing out that Sakura cannot demand her life, without accepting that someone can kill her.
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>>116562571
Need vita version and as such there still not translated yet.

Beasts lair is seeing if they can port the extra routes back to the PC version but i don't know enough about programming to know if they'll work
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>>116562772
>Still not translated yet
But it seems translated in >>116557776 screencap
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>>116562762
She can't, but people are selfish and desire to live even if it means causing other people suffering.
It's a horrible thing, yes, but my point was that humans are selfish creatures and even when they might put up a front and say they would die for the sake of others and shit like that (and sometimes do it) very deep down they wish to live.
It's something that you can choose to ignore for the sake of greater good, but I believe that such a thing exists.
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>>116562874
It's just a translated image, anon.
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>>116558518
thats what makes it great`
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>>116562903
Yes but humans are also empathic creatures by nature.
I just couldn't stand knowing that x people died just because I did nothing while being able to stop it
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>>116559479
Takeuchi just doesn't know how to draw hips. His art is all about tits
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Finally a thread that isn't about the adaptation
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>>116562874
Yes they translated, set and cleaned 1 image, which has about a dozen words which weren't previously translated on the original ed list.

You know you can take screenshots on the vita ?
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>>116563109
I feel the same, Anon, But I would feel as guilty if I killed someone innocent for the sake of greater good or the world, specially if I knew that that person didn't wish to die.
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>>116562903
Sure. Humans are a bunch of contradictions. They're social creatures, so they care about the group. But they're also living beings who care about their own survival.

Sometimes one of the emotions dominates, sometimes one doesn't exist, etc.
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>>116563244
The thing is that Sakura/the Shadow would keep killing.
It's an extremly shitty situation to be in.
And I don't blame Shirou or Rin for not being able to kill Sakura
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>>116563244
That's pretty much it.
I just hate it when people condemn someone for putting one important person for him over the rest of the world.
It's not righteous, but neither is it evil.
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>>116563238
I wouldn't. I guess because they're an "enemy" at that point.
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>>116563368
Why would you consider someone who doesn't want to harm people but it's forced to do so as an enemy?
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>>116563344
was meant for >>116563238

>>116563352
>I just hate it when people condemn someone for putting one important person for him over the rest of the world.
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>>116563352
I disagree. It's understandable, but it's extremely selfish. And selfishness that costs many lives is "wrong"
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>>116563156
Carnival Phantasm best fate
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...
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>>116563352
>I just hate it when people condemn someone for putting one important person for him over the rest of the world.
>It's not righteous, but neither is it evil.
Actualy that's the texbook definition of evil.
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>>116563413
Because she's still killing many people. Her intentions don't matter.
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>>116563352
I'm sorry but if you think sacrificing everyone for one person isn't evil than your fucking insane
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>>116563438
>>116563488
It seems my concept of "wrong" and "evil" is different from yours.

>>116563541
And you are killing an innocent. Your intentions don't matter.
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>>116563586
>innocent
>murderer
Choose one.
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>>116563575
>your fucking insane
Nah, man. If ethical conversations showed me anything, it's that a lot of basically normal people can have wildly different views.
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>>116563586
>And you are killing an innocent.
It seems my concept of innocent is different from yours.
Couldn't resist
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>>116563624
I just wonder how any sane human would be able to sacrifice billions of people for one person.
The only person capable of that would be someone similiar to HF Shirou
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>>116563615
Innocent.

>>116563646
It's fine if you think so. I'm just defending the shit I believe in, you are free to do the same.
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>>116563586
"innocent" is only an important concept for people you can come to an agreement with. If you can't negotiate, you just put a stop to the danger.

Like natural disasters or dangerous animals.
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>>116563734
Than how do you define innocent?
When exactly does someone stop being innocent and starts being guilty?
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>>116561168
>>116561264
>>116561988
>Nurutufag who doesn't even know who Homura is
Sakura haters, everyone.
>>
>thread devolves into le objective morality discussion
This question was for fucking fags, Mind of Steel best end
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>>116563878
Could you please build a better strawman?
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>>116563744
But it's not that you can't negotiate because the other person doesn't want to. The other person doesn't has control over whats happening so of course he/she can't negotiate shit.
And personally I don't think you can't compare killing a human with stopping a natural disaster or killing a wild beast.

>>116563803
When he is consciously causing harm to other people and won't stop even when he is perfectly capable of doing so without having to kill himself.
Someone who doesn't want to harm people and can't prevent it from happening isn't evil or guilty
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>>116563901
That isn't MoS you fucking idiot.
Also the discussion is better than 90% of what got posted since the anime started airing
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>>116563937
>Someone who doesn't want to harm people and can't prevent it from happening isn't evil or guilty
So would you say that Doctor Jekyl isn't guilty?
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>>116557476
I'd have to [Rewrite Myself] before that.
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>>116564041
I don't remember clearly but didn't Jekyll drink that shit on purpose in order to let his dark side go wild or something?
At least that's what I remember from the book.
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>>116563913
He built it himself with his posts. Face it, if you say shit like "wormslut", you tend to be a shitposter in general.
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>>116563344

The main issue us that they didn't know specifically what it was that was causing it. As we know now, Sakura was a proxy, but not the root cause. Rin had suspicions about the grail having problems, but was hampered by the tension of the situation, along with Shirou. As well as Zouken and Kotomine's double talk and trolling when they both know what the real problem is. Well, so does Ilya, but that is another story

Basically the gang was faced with a really tense situation, and in the end, killing Sakura wouldn't have solved the main issue of the grail system being tainted, so it's a stupid decision. Nor does it give her peace from Zouken, who is likely to either reanimate her body upon death, desecrating her further, or getting away by high tailing toward the other magic lands he owns. So not only would her death be a waste, no justice for the years she suffered will be gotten, while she has to suck up a lifetime of abuse and experimentation.

Then we have to deal with this hullabaloo ten years later because it's doubtful the actual problem, the grail system, will be destroyed because the truth will stay buried.
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>>116557476
>Rewrite
I bet you don't even know whose eyes are those eyes.
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>>116563937
No, but if you can't negotiate, they're basically an enemy. They want to live and accept that living means they kill people. So it's a life-or-death conflict.
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>>116563962
>That isn't MoS you fucking idiot.
>what got
>objective morality is a good discussion
You are fucking retarded
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>>116561809
That's why I hate that shit
The player spends two entire routes and 48 hours to understand how Shirou is a superhero who will try to save anyone no matter what and would go to any lengths to achieve that, and out of the blue he throws all of that away just because of some bitch (a very hot bitch, but still)
Being given such a huge middle finger is definitely not a nice thing
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>>116563937
>And personally I don't think you can't compare killing a human with stopping a natural disaster or killing a wild beast.
According to your definition the wild beast is innocent.
And at the end of the day it accomplishes the same thing
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>>116564142
Dude... nice reference.
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>>116564200
That's why I like HF Normal. It's more of a fallen hero story.
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>>116563913
He's right though, that guy is definitely a Narutard.

However, Sakura is still a shitty wormslut.
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>>116564126
Actualy no matter what happens the Grail gets destroyed before the 6th grailwar.
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>>116564246
T-thanks shogun
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>>116564154
But they aren't accepting shit. They wish to live because every fucking human wishes to live, even when they know they might hurt other and even when they choose not to do so, but can't live without hurting other people.
It's not what that person wishes, it's what that person is forced to do.
Why don't you consider the rest of the world evil for considering they deserve to continue living even if it means sacrificing an innocent? What is the difference?
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>>116564253
Yes but he was building a strawman of everyone who dislikes Sakura by taking that one faggot as the norm
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>>116564228
I can't argue about that because it has more to do with me not giving a fuck about other living beings apart from humans.
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>>116564247
I see what you mean and respect your opinion
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>>116564366
>it has more to do with me not giving a fuck about other living beings apart from humans.
You never had a pet did you?
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>>116564313
Except plenty of people give their lives for various reasons. Choosing to live means she accepts people will die because of her.
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>>116564450
I did.
Don't get me wrong. I care about animals and I would never allow one to get harmed, it's just that I can't put them in the same level as human beings.
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>>116564509
Ok your post just wasn't clear about that.
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>>116564200

Actually he didn't. Didn't you see how he pretty much did his damndest to save both the city and Sakura? It wasn't like he just stayed at home and waited it out, he went out every night and wracked his admittedly inexperienced brains to find a solution where everyone could be happy. Just the experienced people around him were as helpless as he was to find a solution.

He wouldn't feel that shitty if he only cared about Sakura, so he is the same as the other routes.
>>
>>116564471
I said it many replies ago, but I consider that deep down everyone wishes to live.
You can choose to end your own life to protect other people and that's fine, but expecting other people to do the same or even forcing them to do so is wrong.
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>>116556833
I actually have a screen saved from when I first made my choice on this one.
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>>116564601
I know--I was challenging the part where you say "they don't accept it". Their choice means they do, because they do have an option.

And that's why it comes back to enemies. Dangerous animals is similar, but I think "enemy" reasoning works too.
>>
>>116564280

Yes, but only after another ten years and another climatic battle endangers the citizens of the city.
>>
>>116557566
Keep them on for the facial.
>>
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>>116561168
>>116561264

This is the end, gents. These are the people that inhabit your board now. Maybe I just wasn't looking when they came in, but sweet mother of god, they're here now. This is not ok.
>>
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>>116564683
Good effort, anon. That Shadow needed stopping before it ate more people.
>>
>>116564729
When I said they don't accept it I meant that it's not like they go "Well, fuck it. I want to live so fuck the rest of the world."
It's more like they don't want people to die but they don't want to kill themselves either and they can just despair because there isn't an ideal outcome.
That's the kind of people I'm talking about: those who don't want to cause harm but are forced to do so. Someone who is completely fine with being like that and doesn't care about other people suffering can go fuck himself.
>>
>>116564861
Ah. Well, yeah, it's unfortunate. But she still made a choice and picked a side. Her own side, rather than the side of the people.

It's not that she's a hated enemy. But you've still got two different sides with life and death on the line there.
>>
>>116564828

The Shadow needed stopping, but you kind of listened to Zouken, who pretty much caused this fiasco. Logical reasoning would flash alarm bells for why he would ask you to do that.

The best thing about that decision is that when you do decide to spare Sakura, Shirou actually gets an idea to go see Kotomine to get answers, which was the smarter decision.
>>
>>116564811
>normalfags are squirting into /a/ like Sunday morning beershits
Nothing new m8 just sage and tell them to kill themselves
>>
>>116564999
>Kotomine to get answers, which was the smarter decision.
And what did that help?
>>
>>116564999
Kotomine and Zouken are both full of shit, depending on the time. If we put any weight on Shirou's sixth sense, he knew Sakura caused the Shadow and killing her was a legit decision.

Not checking Rider's position was dumb, but understandable.
>>
>>116564569
He did.

Choosing Sakura was fundamentally against Emiya Shirou's ideology. In order to become the Hero of Justice he desired to be, he could not choose one over the masses. All lives must be equal, no one life weighing more than the others. This is one of the pillars which supported him. It's the reason why Archer was betrayed by the man he saved, because the man realized that, should Emiya Shirou ever view that man as a threat to his "justice", he would cut that man down without hesitation.

It doesn't matter if Shirou tried his hardest save everyone. The very moment he put Sakura above everyone else in his mind, his ideal had shattered completely.

In this case, what matters is the ideal and not the action. The ideal was the entire foundation upon and doing anything to undermine it was the equivalent of destroying his very reason for living for the past eight years.
>>
>>116563156
I fail to see how ilya is a so good character in HF.
Mind to explain to me?
>>
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>All that Sakura hate
>mfw


god fuck you /a/ sometimes
Sakura is olev
>>
>>116556833
>Tfw really wanted to kill sakura

I was so sad that I had to let her live
>>
>>116565213
Pedophiles
>>
>>116565213
I still think the best Ilya related scene was Winter Forest
>>
>>116564828
Wait, Ayako was a victim to Sakura in HF?
>>
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>>116565216

we are trying to save you anon
>>
>>116565216
Are you kidding? This thread is tame.
>>
>>116564326
Hey, it's not my fault that most Sakura haters really do behave that way.
>>
>>116565155

It helped that he actually got pertinent information and a greater perspective on the situation, which was all that was needed, not sacrificing Sakura. The entire quandary came to be because of lack of information, resources, misinformation, and a time crunch.

I mean, are people that stupid to actually believe that Sakura was required to die in order to alleviate the problem that was going on with the Shadow? Surely the readers at this point are smarter than that.
>>
>>116565365
Actualy there was no real way to stop the Shadow without killing Sakura.
>>
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>>116565327
There's nothing wrong with a little deviation
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>>116565327
I'm already saved.
>>116565333
>tame
>HURR DURR MOS TRUE END
>HURR DURR WORMSLUT
>HURR DURR EVIL BITCH WHO KILLS MILLIONS
>>
>>116565318
Nope, but Sakura haters like to make up bullshit to "justify" their irrational hatred for her.
>>
>>116565422

At this point, you're either trolling or didn't read the route. If you destroyed the Greater Grail, there is no taint, and no taint flowing through Sakura means no Shadow.
>>
>>116565482
>>HURR DURR MOS TRUE END
>>HURR DURR WORMSLUT
>>HURR DURR EVIL BITCH WHO KILLS MILLIONS
Did we read the same thread?
>>
>>116565482
But this thread wasn't even about Sakura.
We were just discussing if its right or wrong to protect someone who has the same situation as Sakura.
>>
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>>116556833
Bestest choice
>>
>>116565422
Sure there was, and you see it happen in the story too. Let Sakura give in to the shadow and make it her own so that it won't possess her in her sleep, then use the Rule Breaker on her.
>>
>>116565566
You make it sound similar and safer than it actually is.
>>
>>116565566
>Let Sakura give in to the shadow and make it her own so that it won't possess her in her sleep, then use the Rule Breaker on her.
That's like the worst possible plan anyone could possibly come up with.
>>
>>116565566
He might have been able to rulebreak here without possession. The connection was already there.

But Sakura went crazy and ran away first.
>>
...I know what's right and what's wrong.
What I've protected until now, and what I want to protect right now.
I know which choice is correct, and which is wrong.
With that in mind, I------

1. ...Persist on being a superhero.
2. I want to protect Ebola-chan.
>>
>>116565566
Wouldn't just stabbing her with Rule Breaker do the trick?
You still have to deal with the crest worm, though.
>>
>>116565644
Better than having Shirou kill his innocent girlfriend.
>>
>>116565745
Ebola-chan is the right choice since she kills the niggers unlike wormslut.
>>
>>116565745
Now i understand why mind of steel is best end
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>>116565791
>innocent
>>
>>116565516

>HURR DURR MOS TRUE END
>>116557670
>>116563901
>>116557686

>HURR DURR WORMSLUT
>>116562142
>>116562181
>>116562525
>>116564253

>HURR DURR EVIL BITCH WHO KILLS MILLIONS
>>116561168
>>116561389
>>116563541
>>116563711
>>116564828
>>
>>116565748
That is tame for arguments about Sakura. Wormslut barely comes up 10 times in 150+ posts, and some of them are from us talking about people using it.
>>
If only things didn't go south so fast Sakura would of stayed at Shirou's then Shinji wouldn't of tried to rape her more which wouldn't result in his death, Sakura's sanity going snap and all that other stupid stuff. Honestly Heaven's feel is a sloppy mess I'm hoping the movie does something to make it more coherrent because it felt like two different stories got Polyermizaton'd together.
>>
>>116565824
Yup, and she's even a virgin in RN. Unlike Rin.
>>
>>116565845
>>116565748
Angry Sakurafags are a sight to behold.
>>
>>116557566
#2 or you're a faggot.
>>
>>116565879
>she's even a virgin in RN
>>
>>116565845
But I was kind of defending Sakura in this post >>116561389
>>
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What if?
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>>116565996
I was just looked for "people" and briefly glossed over posts, sorry.
>>
>>116565791
Not really, no. You're going to ridiculously dangerous lengths out of desire of save one person, at the expense of many. Having Sakura "give in to the shadow and make it her own" isn't guaranteed to go well; it borders on delusion.
>>
>>116565976
Did you play pure RN or with a patch?
>>
>>116565996
Sakurafags are so mad and rabid that they attack each other.
>>
>>116566075
People like don't seem to understand that Shirou in Fate and UBW isn't Shirou from HF. He changes, he slowly throws away his ideals. He shifts his priorities from saving everyone to saving select few to sacrificing everyone and everything for just one person who's dear to him. He's not a superhero anymore, he's just a selfish human being that doesn't care about a bunch of unknowns.
>>
>>116566173
That's what happens when we don't have enough bait. I'm pretty surprised the thread hasn't been full of people shouting about wormsluts or how Sakura's perfect.
>>
>>116565976
Exactly, she's a witch. The female equivalent of a wizard, that's as pure as it gets.
>>
>>116565546

There isn't much of a discussion though. One side shows reasonable facts why protecting that person is fine, others miss the point of the situation and either are pro or against saving them without realizing the actual situation. It never was about picking the one you love versus the world, but a shitty situation where you hardly have any clear information and a loaded decision.

Point of fact, Sakura was perfectly saveable and the situation able to stopped without her death needing to occur. What made the situation hard was important things were kept from the heroes that would have made saving Sakura easy.

HF is about informational warfare. If all evidence proves that a person is guilty, if the information showing that this person is a scapegoat is not brought to light, the prevailing populace in the middle will judge that person accordingly. Such is the case with Sakura. Without knowing that destroying the grail system will help her and get rid of the mysterious entity, than the blame and judgement would solely be brought on her. It's a loaded argument.
>>
gave ur moms ideals, concepts, causality reversals and worms last nite m8s
>>
>>116565976
RN is not canon.
>>
>>116566115
He says that in both versions. In the original VN he says that she is ''a woman that knows men''
>>116566311
>>116566354
Sakurafags really are delusional.
>>
>>116566320
Sure, but the argument wasn't about Shirou's situation from full info perspective and all the things he could do. It was just about a general two option moral dilemma .
>>
>>116566320
In short, HF tried too hard.
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>>116556833
>>
>>116566523
>Kotomine mentions that she's a magician who's been filled with worms, not just some cute regular bystander
>s-she must be a slut!
No, Rinfag, you're the delusional one.
>>
>>116565726
You are ignoring that projecting is a death sentence for HF-Shirou
>>
>>116560654
>Nobody should ever choose selfish reasons over the needs of the many. To do so is scumbag level evil.
Angelica please go
>>
>>116566756
We're just gonna ignore all those times Shinji raped her, huh.
>>
>>116565870
>Honestly Heaven's feel is a sloppy mess
I like the part were Sakura suddenly thinks obeying Zouken is a perfect idea and goes to attack Nee-san and Senpai
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>Civil HF morality discussions
Sometimes /a/ is a cool place
>>
>>116566523

Um, I don't even think those are real fans of Sakura anyway. I mean, I like Sakura a lot, but I'm not gonna be foolhardy to say she is pure. Some guy made it seem like I was saying she was in another thread when I said the slut talk was lame at this point.

But then again, I post honestly. This irony stuff is tiring. Can't tell who is who or who is baiting or who is serious.
>>
>>116566892
In other words, you're full of shit and haven't even read RN.
>>
>>116566881
Maybe some of use felt betrayed by two whole routes detailing how Shirou could only be a hero because he was an incredibly fucked up person and then suddenly have 'oh wait never mind he just needed the V' sprung on us.
>>
>>116566963
Does this look like the face of a slut to you?
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>>116566756
>Implying I'm a Rinfag
>Implying she isn't a slut
>Impying she isn't filled with worms
>>
>>116567015
But in HF he is still a hero, just a different kind of hero.
>>
>>116567058
Yes, I am implying it, and judging by your denial, I hit the bullseye.
>>
>>116567070
You know who else is a hero?
A fireman.
A police officer.
A social worker, perhaps.
I didn't want a hero, I wanted a superhero. Someone above the masses, whose ideals you could look up to even if you could never reach that peak.
>>
I really really hope Sakura's voice actress puts her all into the movie. I want to hear her despair scream be on par with Saber's back when she was forced to destroy the lesser grail. I kinda hope the new anime will do that Saber staring at IIya while remembering Iri scene. Poor Saber never found out what happened to Iri after she was kidnapped and killed by Kotomine.
>>
Choice comes down to whether or not you want to stay a heroic moralfag or give in to affection and throw away morals and ideals.

Do you want to save countless lives by ending just one? Do those lives carry any meaning to you compared to the only one you care about? It it worth it, and why is it worth it? Where do you draw the line?

I wonder how many people would kill their most beloved relative if that would save lives of two people, or three, or ten, or hundred, or a thousand people. They might be ready to die, but do they really want to?
>>
>>116566320
No one seems to understand.

It's not the lack of information that's the important thing here. It's the mindset.

Emiya Shirou has built his whole life on becoming a superhero. It's his entire reason for being. He CANNOT, under any circumstances, consider one person's life above all others. He MUST consider all lives equally.

In order to stay true to his ideals, Shirou HAD to kill Sakura. He had to be decisive about it. If Emiya Shirou truly had his mind set on becoming a superhero, if he was true to his ideal, then he must not consider Sakura's life to be of more importance over the lives of others. And evidence showed that Sakura's continued existence posed a threat to the world. With the evidence at hand, could Shirou risk the lives of multiple innocents in order to keep Sakura alive? To a Hero of Justice, that would be a no-brainer. Sakura was just one life, compared to the countless lives that would be endangered.

By choosing Sakura, Shirou pretty much tore apart everything he stood for with his own hands. He was like a machine who had just undermined its own reason for existence. For instance, a toaster exists to toast bread. If it refuses to toast bread, then what's left for it after that? It was built for the purpose of toasting bread and it, of its own will, chose not to do that anymore.
>>
>>116566909

She was obviously cracking. When Ilya says. And Alter said she was seeking the Grail, even if it meant her death, so there was some plan in the works going on with her. She even hesitated to finish Rin, and had numerous chances to kill them if she wanted to.

But she was losing human functions fast and losing memories, so I wasn't surprised with rational inconsistencies, since she is sharing her soul with like fifty different things by the end. Nasu even made it easier to see by the red text in her fight with Rin.

No obeying Zouken doesn't make sense, but hell, the girl is lucky she has a functioning mind after all that shit.
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>>116567181
You don't look up to HF Shirou? I actually wish I was someone with enough resolution to do whatever it takes to protect those I care about, even if it means destroying myself or having to experience the ultimate shitfest.
Fuck, I look up to Shirou in all of its incarnations. He is a true hero for me.
>>
>>116567109
Whatever you say m8
>>
>>116567344
He's got the same level of commitment and resolution as Kotomine, but I don't see people looking up to him.
Well, sometimes I do.
>>
>>116567330
>No obeying Zouken doesn't make sense, but hell, the girl is lucky she has a functioning mind after all that shit.

Do you remember the scene where she was trying to steel herself for death only for the narrative to tell us she would likely forget this feeling in a few moments? Why the hell did they tell us it was all meaningless after wasting our time with it?
>>
>>116567319
Shirou's whole deal was that he was happy if other people were happy too.
Being a superhero was his way to do that. In the end he just wanted to be like his idealized version of Kiritsugu and feel the same joy he felt when he saved Shirou.
In Fate and UBW, he does this by becoming a superhero and protecting everyone, In HF, he takes another path and realizes that as long as Sakura can smile, he can be granted happiness.
Also, I find the idea of something that only has one purpose throwing it aside and finding a new one quite appealing.
>>
>>116566909
When did that happen?
>>
>>116567391
I look up at Shirou and Kotomine.
Fuck, Kotomine is my husbando.
I think almost everyone who got through HF has some kind of respect and admiration for the fake priest.
>>
>>116567474
After she kills Shinji
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>>116567391
Kotomine has resolve for all the wrong things. Shirou is ready to suffer for others while Kotomine is ready to make others suffer to feel good.
>>
>>116567344
Well, he's the world's greatest boyfriend, that's for sure. It does leave a sour taste to have to sacrifice an innocent; you can call it ethical or expedient, but not heroic for me.
>>
>>116567344
I know this gets asked a lot, but why can HF Shirou one-shot Berserker using stolen archer powers, but EMIYA can't do shit?
>>
>>116567568
>no godhand
>blind
>rotting
>>
>>116567568
Corrupted Berserker didn't have Godhand
>>
>>116567515
Yeah but when did Zouken tells her to kill them? She just accepted her powers and went insane. All her live she thought she's inferior and that everyone looks down on her and how she has enough power to kill them without moving a finger. Zouken told her to get Ilya if I recall but Tohsaka and especially Shirou had no part in it. She couldn't even hurt him.
>>
>>116567461
It's not exactly a bad end, but it is true that he lost pretty much everything in Heaven's Feel. Everything he'd worked towards, everything he'd built himself on, his way of life, his very way of being. He destroyed all of that the moment he chose Sakura over everyone else.

Tell me, could YOU completely deny everything you were up until now? Your entire life, your beliefs, the purpose you'd set yourself towards. Could you decisively destroy all of that without a second thought?

It's the equivalent of killing yourself. Not literally, but figuratively. Emiya Shirou had killed the "Emiya Shirou" that had existed for the past ten years. He decided that Sakura was more important that that.

It's probably painful. It's probably a completely ridiculous choice. Only someone who values others more than he values himself could make a decision like that. It's a purely self-destructive move that's tantamount to psychological suicide.
>>
>>116567568
To be fair there were like 8 or 9 shots.
>>
>>116567694
It sounds like a beautiful thing to me, maybe because I could never do something like that.
>>
>>116567694
It is, but that's the crux of it, isn't it?
I LIKED Shirou, and then he had to go and kill himself and we get a replacement wearing his skin. I would have greatly enjoyed HF if it were divorced from the rest of Fate/Stay Night, but it wasn't.
>>
>>116567561
You are sacrificing innocents either way,
Even if Shirou remained true to his ideals, you wouldn't call it heroic,
>>
>>116567804
Fate has three different story. Just because you like Shirou in one route doesn't mean you should like him in others.
You don't see HF fans going "Ugh, I liked Shirou in HF but in UBW he's just not the same, that route doesn't fit the game me thinks"
>>
>>116567344
He's just not as cool as kiritsugu though. I mean it's nice trying to believe you can save everyone but kiritsugu was more realistic.
>>
>>116567782
>It sounds like a beautiful thing to me
What about suicide is beautiful?
He discarded everything that made him Shirou.
>>
>>116567843
I know. Both choices are unsatisfactory.
>>
>>116567804
I consider it one possible answer to the question of his existence. And there's nothing really wrong with that. He's destroyed everything he was up until that point, but nothing states that he create something new afterwards. The first few years of his life after the 5th War will be dedicated to healing his fragmented psyche, but he'll probably gain new things as he continues on through his life.

It's not really that bad. In Fate/EXTRA, Hakuno starts off with essentially nothing, yet in the four months of the Grail War, s/he truly gains many, many things as a person. I don't think Shirou's inferior to Hakuno, so I think he'll be fine.
>>
>>116567945
Throwing away everything for the sake of someone else.
Making the ultimate sacrifice for the sake of someone you love.
I don't know, I'm kinda gay when it comes to this things.
>>
>>116567910
Because it's put in a specific order.
>>
>>116567969
Well, maybe I'm also a little disappointed that after that blaze of glory Shirou is just a househusband post-HF.
The normal end makes for the best story.
>>
>>116556833
where is option C?
>put it in
>>
>>116568181
>The normal end makes for the best story
I would agree but it doesn't wrap things up at all.
>>
>>116567931
Kiritsugu also had doubts in himself. Unlike Shirou, cold Kiritsugu has nothing to lose, even though he wished for a peaceful world there is no reason why he should care about other people while trying to achieve his goal. You see that when spends 9 years with a happy family he starts to have conflicts with coldblooded side of himself. The scene where he shows his weakness to Iri really shows it.

Shirou had people he loves and cares about from the start, if can't live like Kiritsugu because that would make him a hypocrite. How can he sacrifice a person that could be someone's Taiga when he himself wouldn't be able to sacrifice her.
>>
>>116568039
Doesn't mean shit. It's three different stories, deal with it.
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>>116567015
The "superhero", or "Hero of Justice" that Kiritsugu was and Shirou aspired to be is someone who works for the "greater good" above all else. From the human perspective, a superhero is not a good person. A superhero is a cold machine. Inhumane actions are required to save many humans.

A hero is someone who has something they protect.
In Fate and UBW, the reality of a hero and the ideal of the superhero don't conflict, so the superhero ideal is never challenged and the hero can continue to chase it.
Heaven's Feel does not allow for that to happen, because the one being protected is hurting countless others without a protector.
In Heaven's Feel, Emiya Shirou is an Anti-Hero whose heroically selfish actions come at the expense of the happiness of many innocent others.

The superhero who serves all that is Good will save countless more people than the hero who saves only who he selfishly cares for.
But only the hero is protecting something, and only the hero wishes they could protect everyone.
>>
>>116567319

That is a bit wrong considering when we get a more complex look at his mindset.

He is a contradiction, he follows the morality of an ally of justice, whose only purpose is to slay evil and stop conflict, but he hates it and questions the validity of it all the time, because an ally of justice doesn't think about the proxies of evil, evil is evil, even if it's only somewhat attached to that evil. There is no compromise or distinction between the people who fall through the cracks or the main cause of conflict. He, at his heart, wants to save those who fall through those cracks and suffer in the dark. Hell, that was what he said before using UBW the first time against Gil.

Case in point is where he debates killing Rin if she endangers Taiga when Caster holds her hostage as a counterpoint to people thinking him prioritizing his loved ones started in HF. Same when he considered abandoning the final battle in Fate and running away with Saber.

Shirou does want to help everyone and save everyone, but the crux of the matter is he doesn't acknowledge that an ally of justice's mantra is defeating evil, and saving people is only a byproduct of that. That is what the story is built around.
>>
>>116566277
Regardless, it's a retarded and deranged plan.
>>
>>116568181
>The normal end makes for the best story.
True, but I can't help but feel fucking sad about Sakura waiting for Shirou till she dies so I'm glad that the true end is what it is.
>>
>>116568181
Consider it his reward.

Normally a hero would just be cruelly killed off at the end of his story. Humans only romanticize death due to how painful it is, not only for the one who's dying, but for those around him as well. We want to believe that there's meaning in death, so we selfishly make up our own to make ourselves feel better. We may find something romantic about Shirou killing Saber or sacrificing his life, but Shirou's the one who has to suffer the grief of his actions (for as long as the memory stays intact while his arm is eroding his brain), and Sakura's the one who lives an empty life waiting for someone who will never come.
>>
>>116568383
Opinion =/= fact
>>
>>116568181
>The normal end makes for the best story.
The normal end doesn't have KOTOMINEEE KIREEEIIIIIIIII or this ;_;
>>
>>116568319
That isn't right.
Kiritsugu was a 'greater good' type of guy, yes, but Shirou was the hero for EVERYONE.
That was the problem, that he lives in a horrible world where you can't save everybody and he refused to sacrifice anyone. Archer already showed what happened when you start thinking of the 'greater good' and 'one man to save a hundred'. In the end, both UBW and HF are ways that Shirou won't become Archer, but he didn't need to betray anything for UBW.
>>
>>116568363
It's not wrong. He acknowledges the contradictions, but it's still true that he's built his entire life around becoming a hero of justice. That's what his hardware (body) was built for and his software (mind) was programmed to do. The contradiction was a logical flaw, but "becoming a superhero" was the primary goal of "Emiya Shirou's" production.
>>
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>>116568513
;_;
>>
>>116556833
Look for a third solution.
>>
>>116568513
It has the first thing if you don't get enough Illya point.
I find it funny to think that in one of the two version of the Normal End Kotomine is just standng there, waiting for his manly fight, when suddenly he gets Excaliblasted.
>>
>>116557776
>A Merciful Pantheon
Wait. Is Caster route finally real?
>>
>>116568606
Actually, most of Archer's issues come from AFTER he dies.

He was satisfied with his life and death, but becoming a janitor who does nothing but kill people constantly for all eternity didn't sit well with him. The Archer in Fate/EXTRA is bitter and cynical, but may as well be sunshine and rainbows compared to the Archer from Fate/stay night.
>>
>>116568513
>>116568646
Illya really was the best girl in HF
>>
>>116568646
Isn't it sad, Ilya?
>>
>>116568441
Correct, but this is a fact. Having Sakura give into evil in hope that she could 'make it her own', like it's just her accepting her 'shadow self'' like in other series, is stupid and deranged. It wasn't that simple in the VN and it would be here, no guarantee it would go well. It puts not only the lives of others in jeopardy but her own.

The fact that you'd suggest it makes you caring for her well being questionable.
>>
SUPERHEROES EXIST
YOU CAN BECOME ONE ANON
THERE IS NOTHING AT THE END OF THE PATH
AND THERE IS EVERYTHING BEHIND YOU
KEEP MOVING FORWARD
NEVER LOOK BACK
ALL YOU NEED
IS A MIND OF STEEL
>>
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>>116568748
>>116568730
Ilya always best girl
>>
>>116568720
he does it FOR FREE
>>
>>116568878
That's why she's getting more screentime in UBW's where all she did in that route was get her heart ripped out.
>>
>>116568181

I can't agree that it's the best, but I respect your ooinion. I think people really dismiss the pains it took to grasp that happiness and the work it will take to maintain it. Sakura is going headfirst in protecting the town and learning magic too.


And why would people think he us a househusband? He is obviously going to be training, if for no reason because he doesn't want to burden Sakura forever with searching for a better body or his circuit treatment, and Rin says the problem would be solved with training. Besides, old habits die hard.
>>
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>>116568720
>He was satisfied with his life and death
Not entirely true
>>
>>116568798
And there's a Shirou that doesn't care about other lives at that point. It's a Shirou for which one trying to save Sakura no matter what is the only option. It's not black and white. You could look at it as existentialist and say that one life is not worth thousand others. Or you can look at it from the eyes of a selfish person for whom there's nothing that's worth more than that one life they care about. There's no right way to deal with nor there's a wrong way.
>>
>>116568937
Hm, it's kind of hard to say there.

Shirou viewed thaumaturgy as a tool for helping people. But since the only thaumaturgy he can use are fundamentally combat-oriented, and he has no intention on becoming a hero anymore, he might just abandon it. He has no real interest on becoming a proper Magus either.

He's honestly lost pretty much all his incentive to continue practicing his craft.
>>
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Is it just me or has FSN had less quality than FZ so far?
>>
>>116569095
Wait till they burn all the budget by the end of the first cour.
>>
>>116568971
That's something all Shirous will have to deal with.

Well, it's still true that EXTRA's Archer was way better off, though. He was even allowed to become a true Hero of Justice at the very end in CCC. Why is Hakuno the best Master?
>>
>>116569095
The season is young, they still have a whole second cour they haven't started on yet.
>>
>>116569034
Not even arguing about whether saving Sakura is right or wrong. I'm saying that plan is fucking ludicrous and demented even considering her well being in consideration, and the fact you'd seriously entertain it invokes the question of whether you actually care about her or are fucked in the head.
>>
>>116569217
I pity the animator that had to draw this.
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>>116569263
>true Hero of Justice
>his route is the only one in which Moon Cell Hakuno dies.
>>
>>116569294
Well, it's the only plan, criticizing the only option is a bit useless. Also whether caring for her means killing or saving is questionable.
>>
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>>116568971
implying Nasu could be consistent to save his life
>>
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>>116569332
The point is Hakuno is perfect and deserves better.
>>
>>116569034
>>116569294
And cease this "Shirou doesn't give a fuck about others" bullshit. Yes, he prioritized Sakura but he would never suggest doing something he knows could put others in danger.
>>
1.

Without hesitation. 1.
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>>116569429
>Yes, he prioritized Sakura but he would never suggest doing something he knows could put others in danger.
What?
Are you aware that the birth of Angra Mainyu would have caused everyone to die?
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>>116569398
The Fourth War would have turned out a lot less fucked if Hakuno had been a participant.
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>>116569433
>>
>>116569378
It's not when said "only" option is a stupid one. If you don't care about Sakura or others, go for it and see how well it goes.
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>>116569429
Are you implying he didn't know that letting shadow roam free would hurt other people? Come the fuck on, he threw away his ideal of saving people at that point. They both feel guilt but wouldn't go out of their way to save others.
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>>116569332
He meets the real Hakuno though.
The Gil ending is still the best
>>
>>116569532
He never planned to allow Angry Manjew to be born.
>>
>>116569556
If you care about Sakura you should let her die. Is that what you're trying to say?
>>
>>116569067

Not really, he isn't all machine and actually has legitimate curiosity in it beyond just using it to help people. Plus, as I said, he helps himself and Sakura by practicing. People really place him in too limited a space when the game is about him growing as a person.

Besides, who ever says he would stop helping people. Not mercing 24/7, but since Sakura is further stepping into the area of magic, their lives aren't ever really going to be a normal porch sitting couple. She has those Supervisor duties as well.

I see it more as him finding other callings, having new beginnings.
>>
>>116569561
> They both feel guilt but wouldn't go out of their way to save others.
He spent every fuckign night after that patrolling the town and trying to prevent the Shadow from killing more people.
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>>116569588
So how was he supposed to stop him from getting born without killing Sakura or her breaking down after her confrontation with Rin?
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>>116567319
>In order to stay true to his ideals, Shirou HAD to kill Sakura
No, that's not how it works. He wants to save everyone. Killing Sakura or not killing her, either way his ideal is betrayed. MoS is not Shirou's original ideal.
>>
>>116569532
It wouldn't have happened if Sakura was killed, so what's you point here? Also if your 'plan' is worse because if it goes wrong, there goes everyone.
>>
>>116569551
I want to make make a vector out of this.
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>>116556833

1

She's way past her expiration date anyway
>>
>>116563156
I haven't seen anyone matching the first square fourth row.
>>
Why wasn't there a Ruler in the fourth war when Heaven's feel stuff happened? I mean the world was at stake at this point rather then the grail.
>>
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>yfw you summon lancer
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>>116569641
Using Rule Breaker to break her contract with him and then Excaliblasting him?
Shirou gave up on the idea of using the Grail to save Sakura the moment he found out about Angra Manyu.
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>>116569624
Ehh, the thing is, being able to make swords and only swords probably isn't gonna be a very useful skill for him in the long run. Even if he's assisting the town supervision, he's probably more akin to a gun that will probably never get any use.

Well, I suppose he could set up a hardware repair shop or something.
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>>116569711
>Using Rule Breaker to break her contract with him
That was only possible because her Dark-Sakura facade broke down.
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>>116569642
Yes, you're right.
I find it odd how many people talk about ideals and specifically how they relate to UBW, when UBW Shirou wouldn't have killed Sakura either, albeit for different reasons.
>>
>>116569642
But he can't save everyone, and he was willing to kill Shinji in Fate. Killed Kotomine there too.

He wanted to save everyone, but the hero of justice he was building himself towards was that kind of existence. If he wanted to become a hero of justice, he had to kill Sakura. To not do so would have been to destroy everything he'd been working towards.
>>
>>116569740
It was possible because she didn't immediately kill him, and even so Shirou would have most probably sacrificed himself in order to reach Sakura.
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>>116569611
If you care about Sakura, why would have become her give in to her evil side? Why would you have her be tainted with all the evils in the world? Why would you risk everything, including her becoming a potential murderer? You think this is good for her, not to mention others?

Actually letting her die would be kinder to her. At least you know she died innocent.
>>
>>116569638
No he doesn't. You choose whether or not to kill Sakura on the night of day 13. On 14 Sakura turns and drama begins, he doesn't even have anyone to patrol area with at that point.
>>
>>116569825
But she didn't want to die.
>>
>>116569921
Actualy she did want to die.
>>
>>116569781
Killing villains is obviously different, it's something he's willing to do if it's necessary and he doesn't seem to lose much sleep over it. Sacrificing innocents for the "greater good" is an altogether different matter. Yes, the fact of the matter is he CAN'T save everyone. That is what he discovers. Which means in this situation, his ideal is impossible. Again, MoS is not what he originally wanted.
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>>116569825
Are you fucking stupid?
>Why would you?
To live happily ever after, how hard is that to understand? Killing is killing, guilt can be dealt with. Sakura doesn't want to die, Shirou doesn't want to kill her.
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>>116569946
No, she didn't.
She mentioned many times that even though she knew she was killing people she was too scared to die.
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>>116569921
Of course, but she didn't want all these things either, probably more than that.
>>
>>116569971
>Yes, the fact of the matter is he CAN'T save everyone. That is what he discovers. Which means in this situation, his ideal is impossible
It is something he realises and aknowledges in UBW as well.
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>>116570011
It's more that she wanted to die but was too cowardly to do it herself.
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>>116569381
>As if saying there is nothing to regret if he was able to save everybody
Exactly. He didn't save Ilya.
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>>116569946
No, she just wanted to relive herself of guilt, become a martyr as if that would save her and forgive her. If you read carefully you can catch that it's just her type of personality. Instead of fixing things she wants to accept punishment. She only saw death as easy way to escape guilt and responsibility. Death by the hands of other people so that they can take out their hatred on her.
>>
>>116570140
>that reading comprehension
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>>116569705
>yfw you summon assassin
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>>116570004
There's no guarantee you'll live 'happily ever after' with your retarded plan. No guarantee you'll even live. It doesn't even look good on paper.

Please remove head from ass. Having Sakura give into evil in the mere hope everything will work out as you fantasize is a deranged plan from a childish mind.
>>
>>116570313
assasin > lancer
>>
>>116570331
You stupid motherfucker it THE ONLY plan. It's the only way to save her. Guess what? Some plans are not fucking full proof stratagems that lead to success and it doesn't make them retarded. Your argument is nonexistent, it's like saying "Well if you have bad times you can always kill yourself, future doesn't look bright".
>>
>>116569971
That's not the point.

Emiya Shirou was a machine. A machine built and programmed for the sole purpose of becoming a hero of justice. A hero of justice cannot discriminate. It cannot consider one life above others, and all must be equal. If cutting down one life can save two, then it must cut down that one life. That is the "hero of justice" that Shirou was set up to become. It's not necessary something he wanted, but it was something that he HAD to become, because that's what he'd been built towards for the past ten years of his life.

It's as it was stated in Unlimited Blade Works: Archer was the culmination of Emiya Shirou's ideals. He admits that. Archer states it outright. He killed many and he saved many more. The narrative does not mince words; that is the Hero of Justice that Emiya Shirou had sought.

But when he chose Matou Sakura over the faceless many, he had decided that she was more important than the others. It was a critical blow to his ideals. If Shirou had stayed true to his path on becoming a hero, it should not have been an issue. Sakura is one life, and her existence threatened multiple lives. If all lives are equal, then the lives of the many would naturally outweigh the life of one. His goal of becoming a hero stated that he had to kill Sakura to safeguard the lives of the faceless masses.

But he chose Sakura. He consciously decided that Sakura was more important. Even if her continued existence endangered the lives of countless innocents, Shirou decided that it was more important to him to protect Sakura than it was to safeguard those lives. It was a critical blow to his identity. If Emiya Shirou was a machine who was built and programmed to become a hero of justice, then it was the equivalent of a machine denying its own reason for existence.
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>>116570361
Please don't bully the Lancers, they suffered enough already
>>
>>116570555
It doesn't matter if he can't save everyone. It doesn't matter if his ideal is unreasonable or impossible. What matters is that, the moment he decided to save Matou Sakura, Emiya Shirou consciously destroyed his reason for existence up that point. He could no longer become a Hero of Justice. He could no longer pursue that path. If Emiya Shirou was defined by his need to become a Hero of Justice, then that was the equivalent of destroying his identity up to that point.
>>
>>116570587
>that face is just so perfect
>>
>>116570495
Your plan wouldn't even get off the ground from the start. What the fuck does 'give in to all the evils in the world' even mean to you? Having her just 'make it her own'? Are you under the assumption that it's really that simple, even in the VN? It wasn't, that's why they stumbled on the solution.

This plan isn't worth wiping your ass with and sadly makes killing her look merciful.
>>
>>116570555
>it was something that he HAD to become, because that's what he'd been built towards for the past ten years of his life
Bullshit, he can choose what kind of hero he wants to be. He didn't WANT to become Archer, even if Archer said it was inevitable. It's well established that Archer is a moron. Who says that he has to consider all lives as equal? Why is that an inviolable rule?
>>
>>116570840
And yet it worked, woah, it's almost as if it was completely worth it.
>>
>>116570958
Because if he doesn't consider all lives equal then he wouldn't be able to save as many people. Shirou decided that Sakura's life is worth much more than the other and nobody calls him a hero for that decision.
>>
>>116570962
Except the first few 'steps' weren't part of their plan because it already happened. How would you get her to 'give in to all the evils in the world' and 'make it her own' if you're planning this?
>>
>>116570958
That was the route he had been following.

Why the hell do you think the choice existed? It was either "Become a Hero of Justice" or "Protect Sakura". There is no middle ground. In Shirou's mind, those were the only two choices. If he chose one, he would inevitably be denying the other.

What matters isn't what YOU think a Hero of Justice should be. What matters is what a Hero of Justice is to EMIYA SHIROU. That's the only thing that matters here, and the fact that there was a choice, the fact that he could ONLY choose one or the other in the Heaven's Feel route proves that your arguments carry no weight here.
>>
>>116556833
>Stupid Kariya, nobody disobeys grandfather
Kill the ungrateful little cunt.
>>
>>116571094
That's what adjustments are for.
>>
>>116571119
Did Kariya fuck Sakura?
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>>116568748
>>116568878
>>
>>116571190
So what? Have Shinji beat and try to rape her again?
>>
If HF Shirou was summoned as a Servant would he be Rider? You know, since he rides her. Haha
>>
>>116571195
No. He got fucked over pretty hard though.
>>
>>116569266
>>116569198
Unlike Zero, though there's full season in between Part I and Part II.
>>
>>116571300
Yes. Doujins when?
>>
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>>116567645
>>116567609

>didn't have god hand
who said? Shirou projected 8 slashes of A rank STR and a stab.
Saber took 2 lives. so he died 11 times.
Weaker, rotten and blind, yeah.
but God hand is the god damn body, not only the skin
>>
>>116571300
Shinji served as accidental catalyst and because of him whole reaction went out of control. Same results would've been possible if she accepted that she and shadow are one and the same in a way that didn't involve killing.
>>
>>116571108
Yes, it's obvious that in saving Sakura he is rejecting the notion of a hero he had before that, but my point is that accepting the need to kill one to save many, he is also breaking the ideals he originally had. MoS isn't just Shirou continuing about his life the with the same outlook he always had, he's turned his mind to steel and abandoned his idealistic concept of "saving everyone". It is also a critical blow to his ideal. There's a reason it's a bad end.
>>
>>116571119
>Look at me, I'm a retarded secondary!
Fuck off until you've read the LN.
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>>116571321
Yes
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>>116570043
Yes, but the point of HF is to see it in action instead of "even if"
>>
>>116571406
Could she do it? How can one allowing their soul to be tainted with evil be smooth sailing?
>>
>>116571466
>accepting the need to kill one to save many, he is also breaking the ideals he originally had
It isn't if you understand what an ideal is.
It isn't something that can be archieved but something he can aim for.
That's practicaly the conclusion of UBW, he knows it's impossible but he can still try because it's beautiful.
>>
>>116571066
>Because if he doesn't consider all lives equal then he wouldn't be able to save as many people.
HE DOESN'T WANT TO SAVE AS MANY PEOPLE

HE WANTS TO SAVE EVERYONE

THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT, HE CAN'T, AND KILLING ONE PERSON IS DESTROYING HIS IDEAL IN IT'S OWN WAY

GODDAMN
>>
>>116571501
No.
>>
>>116571702
Clearly actually having to act on it - especially when the person killed is someone he loves - is quite different from just knowing it. The ideal is, specifically, saving everyone. If he has to kill someone, he's breaking the ideal. Period.
>>
>>116571710
Did you miss the complete conclusion of UBW?
The ideal isn't destroyed if people die.
That is something noone can prevent
>>
Isn't fate/zero basically mind of steel gone even wronger?

The fag sacrifices his waifu for nothing.
>>
>>116571881
Kerry saved the world.
>>
>>116571829
No, the new more realistic ideal he takes is making everyone around him smile is enough

Him sacrificing anyone goes directly against it. But that's the conclusion he arrives in UBW where it's not tested for reals, not HF.

Technically he arrives to the same conclusion in HF too but under different circumstances and not narrated to you.

The point of the post is that killing any innocent himself is betraying his ideal.
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>>116557776
>All these new DLCs
>STILL NO TAIGA ROUTE
Fuck you Nasu, and your little mushroom too.
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