"The anime industry is starting to break down" says Hideaki Anno
>“It is not that I necessarily wanted to change the flow of anime, but to really sustain the anime environment, to stop it breaking down, and there is still a lot of work to do. (The industry) is starting to break down somewhat, with a lower number of people working in anime and less money, and we need to prevent the anime world shrinking. The varieties of expression have become narrower, less diverse, closed up in a world called ‘Japanese anime’ and I want to break through that and keep on expanding.”
He is right though, there is a lot more to Japanese animation than just the narrow otaku market being catered for by most shows.
Anno whines about commercial factors being too important when making anime.
He whines about it being less diverse, and then he goes on about how he wants to break through that.
Well, holy shit. Why the change of heart?
Anno has spent his post-EVA career commercializing the original great work he made, going as far as to ruin the greatness for the sake of selling an otaku vision of it.
His latest work is EXTREMELY pandering, and because of that extremely destructive.
EVA's popularity combined with how aggressively it is commercialized means that the rest of the industry either quits, or takes up rampant commercializing in an attempt to compete.
Anno is a huge hypocrite.
No, not really but I would rather things were being made with some artistic vision and creative drive than being a 24 minute advertisement to extract cash from a sweaty NEETs palms.
He's just an old man who needs to complain.
The problems he's complaining about are pretty much problems he himself helped create and is even now fostering.
I would not be surprised if these complaints are just vapid pretentiousness, part of a spiel to guilt otaku into supporting the industry even more.
Can we at least move on from the fucking high school setting?
no one cares because nobody knows it exists
It's like Redline. People didn't see it because it's not kawaii high school girls, but because there was literally no fucking advertising for it at all.
No, the impression I get is its a whole bunch of shorts being produced by Anno and directed by all different people for each one to exhibit the skills of talented animators given free reign to do the shit they want without concern for commercial constraints.
Have you checked the op's link
>Anno reportedly said in interviews that anime-loving otaku should return to reality. Does he still think that today?
>“I still feel the same as I did at the end of the TV series,” Anno replies. “At the end of the TV series, I was really putting that to the forefront; however, I think that now I have kind of given up on putting that in the forefront. At the end of the day, people will not really change, regardless; they’re just people. At the time, I felt that message was necessary, that people will need to go back to reality; and in a necessary time, I will give out the necessary message. But I think that now it will be a different message that comes to the forefront, although (the original message) is still important.”
Because rehashing your past work is sure expanding the industry, hey Anno?
It has been this way for a good 30 years. Even then, there actually are more anime per season now than during the 90s. The industry is surprisingly robust actually. Could be better, but it is not in a huge trouble. Japanese censorship might make it worse though.
As far as viewers are concerened, well, they are being bombarded with images around the clock, and they have come accustomed to an infinite supply of them; it's gotten to the point where they have no qualms about demanding even more. Viewers will forever demand that we give them their shows every week, that when a season's up we follow with another season of shows – without any idea of how much time and energy we creators have to invest, to give of ourselves, to create a single episode. Sometimes they even have the nerve to tell us that last year there was such and such, but this year there hasn't been anything good on at all.
-Hayao Miyazaki, January 1985
I simply can't discuss the business we are in without a bit of bitterness. Compared to some of the works from the 1950s that I will always hold as a gold standard, the animation we are making in the 1980s resembles the food served on jumbo jet airliners. Mass production has changed everything. The emotions and thoughts that should be so moving have given way to showiness, nervousness, and titillation. And work that should be done lovingly by hand has been whittled away at within organized production systems that focus on straight work for hire. I frankly despise the truncated word "anime" because to me it only symbolizes the current desolation of our industry.
-Hayao Miyazaki, January 1988
But anons, that doesn't answer my question...
Not him, but he's still correct. That thing in the post.
You see, there's a lot of pretentious otaku in both western and japanese fandom, who essentially believe that Anno is someone who hates otaku and hates the anime industry.
This is shown in how they interpret EVA, to be pure irony. They're the worst kind of deluded otaku there is.
Anno has since the 90's strongly gone against the idea that he does that, and proclaims himself a huge otaku, and claims that he doesn't criticize otaku. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The actual truth is, even according to Anno, that he is an otaku that just makes what he likes. With the original he was able to overcome that kind of shallow attitude and actually do a work that surpassed just his own likes and dislikes.
Fastest way to get attention besides tits: Say the industry is dead.
>video games are dead, buy my game
>anime is dead, watch my anime
>music is dead, buy my album
>movies are dead, watch my movie
>books are dead, read my book
It's a movie about a bitter old man regretting his life choices
Of course it's deep
Do you have an objective way to rate quality? (assuming that's what you meant because lol typos)
Anime has always been constrained by financial issues - they canceled fucking Gundam - and it seems to me more shows being made means both more good anime and more bad anime.
He just wishes things were still like in ye olde times, after the war.
Apparently high school is the last time that the Japanese are able to be really laid back and have fun in their lives, after that everything pretty much goes to shit and they're overloaded with university/work and such all the time. Also high school is pretty much the perfect setting for self insertion with a cool MC that gets all of the hot girls lusting after his dick, especially if you were an autistic loner back in high school.
welcome to /a/
Absolutely nothing wrong with titillation and showiness. And animation has always been more thankless than it should be. At least diehards still follow directors and animation staff.
The sad truth is that stirring human dramas can only sell so much. Entertaining, fun shows are a lot more sellable.
Adding to this, look at almost any anime with older characters, they're considered fully mature by 25 in mind and spirit. You know Jet Black from Cowboy Bebop, the grizzled world-weary retired cop? Yeah, so fucking ancient and wizened at all of 36.
You're an old man at 36 in anime.
Wut. Mecha has and always will be made with kids and teens in mind. Nothing wrong with the young adult and nostalgiafag older adults getting into it. Miyazaki always struck me as bitter. Overly so.
I always figured it just easier/lazier to draw. Everyone is in a uniform so you don't have to worry about changing clothes every day that passes in the series. The only thing you would have to worry about is the different faces of characters.
He really liked the 1958 film The Tale of the White Serpent (Hakujaden) I know that, he writes that he fell in love with the female character in it and went home and cried after seeing it at the cinema.
>Make five movies about the same mecha show
>Say "industry is starting to break down"
Highschool is also the most important time in their lives since it basically decides the outcomes of their future. College doesn't really matter unless if you're going the the medical or science fields, but even high school the amount of pressure they have is huge.
You're 100% right about it being the last time of laid-back happiness in their lives though.
That's a good point.
Now that I think about it, it's also something that everyone goes to. Not everyone ends up in college or whatever path in life they choose to depict. So a lot of people can relate.
The realistic possibility of forced censorship rendering some plot lines undoable is probably the biggest concern going forward in hampering what anime does in the future. If anything though the industry has been making a rebound in terms of diversity of shows during the last couple years after reaching a minimum a few years back.
Even if they do go to Japanese college, it's almost nothing like our experiences, where we often have universities spread over hundreds of acres and people own cars and wild drunken debauchery happens. It'd be more like NYU or other colleges within cities.
>muh-anime always are about highschool
Because it's the same argument others have been saying for decades that's never come to fruition. Or if it has, it's their own personal issue and anime has just moved away from their desires to suit the tastes of others better.
In either case that doesn't make it okay.
Anime can sell and still not pander to otaku. /a/ specifically seems to have this idea that if it's not pandering to the lowest common denominator, than it's mainstream shit fit for newfags. As if there's no middle ground to be had. I guarantee this is how the industry thinks as well.
What's next, you going to post Bebop?
He's become too focused on his own mortality to see anything else. Everything that is new in the world has become a reflection of his age and everything old is a reflection of his own life. He desperately tries to justify his hatred because in the end he will become dust and perhaps so too will his entire legacy become just another passing moment in history.
i agree, the main problem with anime is that the majority of it caters to narrow, juvenile tastes. it's sad because there are a lot of things you can do with animation that you can't with film yet film remains the superior medium.
idk maybe i'm just getting old and tired of seeing anime that tries to tackle serious shit but fails because of heavy handed exposition so people aren't lost. case in point psycho-pass had a really good core idea with the themes but the execution was something a 14-year old would do. it wasn't terrible but it could have been so much more.
For everyone here who (Anno, Miyazaki, etc) thinks he has the UNPRECEDENTED GENIUS idea of "hey why don't we just make anime mainstream by producing a good show without all the highschool garbage that holds it back ?"
Producers have already tried that every season, over and over again, with many different stories and normalfags still for the most part didn't bite.
The mainstream doesn't care, even if you try to cater to them by making your product as bland and inoffensive (or "smart" if you're going for that) as possible. The state of anime today is because highschool otakus are the only ones who shell out big bucks for anime.
Not necessarily otaku, but there is a subset of people buying anime that literally want to be fed the same shit in it's most basic form. There's no room to grow and the industry seems to be targeting them more and more.
Does anyone else believe that what Anno and Miyazaki says here is just feeding the already self-loathing otaku?
It's just a business move to come with statements like this. Even otaku realize that their focus on shallow qualities in animation isn't ideal. Many are self-loathing sorry people. Not all of course, but a sizeable number is.
By spelling doom like Anno does, he attracts attention and ironically makes the otaku perhaps increase their efforts to "support" the anime industry that is "dying" by just buying more anime.
Anno is guilting people into buying more.
Moe sells, If a show somehow gets branded as being not moe? Good luck making your money back.' says anime studio Madhouse president
>Fuuta pinpoints Evangelion as the catalyst for what eventually became the modern industry business model of creating shows that exist as advertisements for their home video release. Eva didn’t just change the perception of anime in the public consciousness, it also sold 1.5 million copies on laserdisc alone, opened the floodgates on shows geared towards otaku, and was instrumental in creating a concept Fuuta refers to as “My Anime”: niche shows with early-morning TV timeslots that shoot to make their money back on home video sales.
>Hiro has to ask: what is moe, exactly? Fuuta answers “there’s no set definition or even accepted premises for what moe is, but that vagueness allows fans to find their own personal definition of moe and go with it.”
>Hiro points out this trend towards a otaku-only subject matter that the fans themselves can’t even define makes anime in general harder to approach and get into, Fuuta points to the industry catch-22: it sells. And if a show somehow gets branded as being not moe? Good luck making your money back.
Yea like that time that they tried to create a mature sci-fi show for an older audience called Psycho-pass and it only managed to sell more than 90% of every anime that year
or when the main sponsor for Madoka hand picked the writer, studio and character designer for the show in an attempt to attract the largest audience possible only for it to completely backfire and sell a measely 50 times more than the average show
I am tired of this goddamned "anime is dying" shit.
It sells because thats all they fucking produce. It's a cycle and the industry spent close to a decade grooming a niche of consumers into wanting more moe content.
Simple saying "it sells, so fuck you" is not a suitable justification for producing crap.
He does, because I believe he's pointing out the actual message Anno is preaching. See >>116272017
He paints the anime industry as "dying", as something that will "break down", well shit then! How are people who like the anime industry going to react? They don't want it to die. How do they make it not die?
....by buying more merchandise. By buying more anime. By sustaining it with their own money. By buying five copies of his new EVA movie. By attending the 3.0 Exhibitions and buying the Eva merchandise, by buying yet another copy of his latest EVA movie. That will keep the industry alive.
It's true that other anime series also make merchandise, this is just the obvious truth. But very few of them can actually compete at the scale Anno operates. It's fucking Evangelion. It's got theme parks and several merchandise outlets.
Have you seen the latest Rebuild movie? It had the absolutely perfect excuse to do something genuinely new, and what does it do? It copies episode 24 and 23, turns up the pandering to 11 and actually resets the setting into just being saleable items.
They introduce a timeskip, but somehow don't age the characters, because well, old characters DONT SELL.
Hideaki Anno is the problem.
Even if they make the BD's cheaper it doesn't increase sales enough to make it worthwhile, it's been tried multiple times, and it always fails. People need to understand that anime will remain primarily for children and otaku for the foreseeable future since they're the only ones who will pay for it, so unless some one manages to change that fundamental aspect of the market, they should get used to the type of anime we have coming out/
Apparently Adult Swim considers its a success, so a movie might still be possible.
>Have you seen the latest Rebuild movie? It had the absolutely perfect excuse to do something genuinely new, and what does it do? It copies episode 24 and 23, turns up the pandering to 11 and actually resets the setting into just being saleable items.
I see this bullshit in every thread and I still don't agree with it.
The entire franchise at it's core has elements that were specifically put in place to sell toys. Just because 3.0 falls back on this concept when it doesn't necessarily have to doesn't mean Anno is somehow a villain now. Also you'd have more of a point if the film was outright shit, which it was not. I don't even like it but I won't say it was a bad film through and through.
The fact of the matter is as long as your product is of a certain quality there's nothing wrong with trying to make money of ancillary things like toys, shirts, etc. It's not like people are still buying the actual anime like they used to, there's piracy going on. The creators pretty much have to make some sort of push to sell merch or they don't make money at all.
>It's just a business move to come with statements like this.
Honestly, that's how I feel about statements like this coming from anime directors. They've been going at this shit for more than 20 years and the anime industry hasn't fallen into a crash yet. Sure, it's had some drawbacks over the years, but overall it's only getting bigger.
It's just a marketing move to sell the big shots as big shots.
>Anime can sell and still not pander to otaku.
Like kids TV? It does sell. It doesn't sell anymore in the west, which is why the west is not relevant to the anime industry anymore.
What's your problem?
It's not "pandering". I'm not saying your point is lost, but stop calling everything a pander attempt. It's not the right term to use here.
You're not going to age up Shinji, Asuka, Rei, and the rest at this point. I don't care what bullshit excuse is used to keep them looking the same, but it'd be fucking disastrous to take them out of their current designs.
I don't see why a timeskip was included at all, but the point stands. A lot of the franchise is built on the identity of the characters. Changing it this late in the game is definitely a poor business move. I don't see how this is inherently a bad thing. People put far too much stock in what the Rebuild films are doing. The core series is over and done with so stop expecting Anno to push the franchise forward beyond what it's already known for.
The fact that a symbol isn't universally applied within a fictional universe is not evidence there is no meaning to it. You've made up your mind though, so I'll leave it at that.
>I see this bullshit in every thread and I still don't agree with it.
Why not? Why don't you agree? If you do not agree, then do you have a reason for that? Do you have logic, arguments, reason, anything at all?
Anything at all besides "I do not agree" ?
All you have is the desire to not agree, you want to believe that he is somehow not a villain for producing a rehash. Because 3.0 doesn't just fall back on a concept. It actively twists and turns the concept into something that is more merchandisable and attractive to the market - at the cost of it's quality.
3.0 spends more time pandering than it does being constructive. It spends more time showing you ass, tits, piano scenes than it does developing characters or the setting. More action, more explosions, less everything else. Now in the original, this segment of the anime was laden with developent, characterization and very introspective scenes. All 3.0 does is copy 23 and 24's marketable things, and create things for more pandering.
It's silly to think anime creators earn by how many watch the anime as it airs. Research, facts etc... prove that piracy only has ONE effect, and that is increasing merchandise sales. That's literally it, it creates more demand. Because it introduces an anime to far more people than just a television-airing in Japan ever could. It makes people buy DVD's. Thanks to the internet, there is a massive otaku/anime fan following in the west.
It's also fitting considering that Anno is slated to be the next big-shot director in the industry after Miyazaki. Anno is his protege.
I don't agree for the reason listed here: >>116272710 and here: >>116273037
Not everything is a goddamn pander attempt. Some things just make sense for business. Why in the holy fuck would you want the characters aged up at this point? I'd say you're the faulty one for somehow desiring that.
Not him, but you're just refusing to accept he's right.
Why is the timeskip even there if it's going to have no effect? If you're going to claim it's to create contrast, then why non age the characters?
The credibility of Shinji, Rei, Misato and so on are NOTHING if they can't be changed. NOTHING.
It is NOT disastrous to change the design of the character, because their identity is still held despite of the superficial changes in their skin.
Rei in the original serves as perfect proof for that for instance.
The quality and worth of a character is not just it's design, it's far more than that. But 3.0 only cares about the superficial bits of it's character and putting them in scenarios where otaku will find moe.
>The core series is over and done with so stop expecting Anno to push the franchise forward beyond what it's already known for.
I'm not. I'm just expecting him to cash in.
The timeskip is just a lazy plot device and Anno didn't even have the balls to age them. I can understand Shinji not aging and Rei, but Asuka and Mari is just pure bullshit. Yeah, it might not sell as well if he ages the characters, but that just shows he cares more about the money than his work. Anno is rolling in money and has no real reason to care much about sales. It's fucking EVA, and Nips will eat up almost anything he shits out anyway (see 3.0). It's pandering because he's just doing it for the money.
I read those posts, they are debunked.
>Not everything is a goddamn pander attempt. Some things just make sense for business.
is nothing but you shutting your ears going "LA LA LA". It makes sense for business, i.e is a commercialized decision that bases itself on catering to an audience with niche interests (young girls/boys), but is somehow NOT pandering? Jesus christ anon.
>Why in the holy fuck would you want the characters aged up at this point? I'd say you're the faulty one for somehow desiring that.
ANON, SNAP BACK TO REALITY.
THEY HAD A TIMESKIP. EITHER THE TIMESKIP GOES, OR THE CHARACTERS AGE.
The timeskip IS REAL. However, the characters did not age. Why? To pander.
It's not about what I want, it's shouldnt' be about what otaku faggots (including Anno!) wants either for entirely superficial reasons!
It's so simple. If you do a timeskip, then take the responsibility that comes with it. 3.0 didn't.
The timeskip only exists so they have an excuse to not do anything significant with Rebuild besides pander anyway.
>starting to break down
Nigga it's been broken for like the last 10 years.
I outright gave you the logic behind keeping them the same age.
Everything from what the average person thinks of to the branding and merch depends mostly on visual design. You cannot change the characters at this point and still hope to maintain the identity of the franchise you spent decades creating to hold up.
>The quality and worth of a character is not just it's design
Generally it is, yes. We don't need the characters to grow emotionally at this point. We have the main series for that. Asking for the rebuild films to continue that when we already have these things established is nothing more than fans forcing their personal wishes into the mix.
>What's the last non-otaku anime that sold a buttload?
Anything by ghibli? It's not just the sales. Anime is probably the only video medium where disc sales matter. When was the last western TV series that sold buttloads of discs? You can't compare this. If you look at jap TV, kids TV and Sazae-san is what is watched most.
Adult anime always was a niche, even in Japan.
He could have done a short timeskip and only made Asuka and Mari a little older. Really the amount of time we missed is completely arbitrary, it could have been as little as a year.
If he were doing it for money, he wouldn't have taken 3.0 in a direction where pretty much the only sympathetic characters were Shinji and Kaworu though. Physically aged or not, Asuka and Mari character-wise got dumped alongside the adult cast.
3.0 isn't just pandering because he's doing it for the money. It's because it's literally pandering.
Hideaki Anno and otaku like him WANT Asuka and Mari to be young and attractive. They don't care about creating good characters or stories with meaning any more.
All Anno cares about now is making sure it panders to people such as himself, Asuka fans and Kaworu fans. He's not making Asuka or Kaworu good characters, he's just making them LOOK good. He's flattering them, glorifying them while shitting on the opposition, i.e Rei and the rest.
He is turning characters he don't like to incompetent villains, and the characters he does like to good saviors that fight for what's right.
It's the worst kind of pandering there is.
>The timeskip only exists so they have an excuse to not do anything significant with Rebuild besides pander anyway.
Surprise, they don't need to.
You want them to make the same show they made 2 decades ago. "Let's have them go through growth and development all over again".
I just take the Rebuild films for what they are. They don't replace what the overall franchise and characters mean to me.
>Adult anime always was a niche, even in Japan.
Well yeah, adult anime used to be entirely in the OVA or film format. TV series made exclusively for adult otaku audiences didn't really occur until the 90s. You didn't even have 1-cour TV series until Metal Fighter Miku or thereabouts.
I will agree that the anime industry is starting to break down when we stop getting dozens of shows appealing to every possible interest every season.
Well to be fair I have no idea why so many shows still get made when something like half of the shows sell like shit.
Having a timeskip and not aging characters reminds me of Soul Calibur every time i hear it.
>can't have the female cast look older because less people will fap to that
>muh soul edge prevents aging it totally makes sense you guys
>YOU DON'T AGE THE CHARACTERS BECAUSE THEY WON'T SELL
Am I retarded and missing something or is that just a very shitty excuse and flat out otaku pandering that's not only a pussy's way out but also restricts creativity?
I'd love to see Asuka and Shinji actually aged.
The fact that he managed to create so much mass ass hurt after the drop of from 3.0 just shows how much he doesn't give a fuck about pleasing his fans.
Not aging the characters is another matter though. He doesn't care about pleasing them, but he probably doesn't want upset them to the point where they start vandaling his studio or sending him hundreds of death threat letters through the mail again.
In other words, he'll do anti-pandering, but not the the extremes that could lead to hurt for him or his staff members.
>I outright gave you the logic behind keeping them the same age.
Which are founded in a commercial decision. They keep them the same age because like you say but aren't willing to admit means what it means, to pander.
The logic behind keeping them the same age is to keep the character at a point where otaku and fans will still find them desirable, sexually and aesthetically.
>Generally it is, yes. We don't need the characters to grow emotionally at this point. We have the main series for that. Asking for the rebuild films to continue that when we already have these things established is nothing more than fans forcing their personal wishes into the mix.
Wow, congratulations. You are the fucking cancer. You literally just want a moe design to jerk off to.
People like YOU are the reason the characters are shite and good for nothing else but comiket doujins. You completely neglect the story and only want a design.
I'm still pissed that we didn't get what was previewed in the teaser.
I agree that the timeskip was a dumb move but disagree that the length was arbitrary.
You would need more than one year to fully have everything that was implied to happen to well, happen.
I just don't get the logic.
I know what I like about Evangelion and it's characters. Rebuild isn't about continuing from the original series, as much as people like to fanwank it as being apart of a single timeline. It's literally a theatrical version of what has already been established with the franchise.
Is it just me, or is moe actually dying?
There are so little moe shows per season. Sure, most shows have moe characters, but the focus is almost always on stupid shit like mechas or fighting dragons or magic.
Where are the glorious days when moe/slice of life shows like K-On topped the sales charts?
You are arguing that the Rebuilds don't need to be independently good. You are just asking for MORE OF THE SAME without any standards whatsoever.
You're shallow, and you're the reason moe anime and 3.0 sells.
>The characters are iconic
So? How does that stop them from realistically bumping them up a couple of years for plot-related reasons?
Will people really bitch that much about older character designs?
What are you even saying here? Disagreeing or agreeing?
You like the characters, fine. So do many else, for VASTLY different reasons.
>Rebuild isn't about continuing from the original series
True or not, it doesn't matter, what matters is that it actually contains and fosters good characters that aren't based on moe qualities alone.
What we see with Rebuild 3.0 is that it panders specifically to otaku and fujoshi, even when compared to the last one.
It's pretty obviou that it's satirical about otaku dont want their waifu age.
>Anno: Everyone understands that it’s a fiction, but precisely because it’s a fiction you have a pure feeling, you fall for the character to an even greater extent. You assume that an anime character will not betray you. Iku-chan (Kunihiko Ikuhara) said to me, “in the last episode, please have Rei Ayanami get married and become pregnant. Just please betray the Ayanami fans. The Rei Ayanami they are thinking of is not real. The real Rei Ayanami gets married, and her belly…”, He told me something like, “please, make them realize that, If she were real, she would get married, become pregnant, have a child, and grow older.” I was thinking, “we don’t have to go that far…”
It's very popular, and has both a more "normal" following, and a deeply hardcore following. Not with everyone, but it's very popular.
One of the most popular franchises in Japan.
A year is plenty of time. All of NGE takes place over roughly a year. This is however assuming that the earth was ruined in one big failed impact and that everyone isn't totally full of shit. Other than that it's just breaking Asuka out of superjail, picking up a slightly used pink Eva off craigslist, Grand Theft Wunder, Misato founding the resistance, and getting Shinji back from space.
Would you kindly shut up about this for just once, Reifag?
You got your pandering in 1.0 and 2.0. She's been the franchise figurehead before 3.0 happened. If you want to talk about tarnished characters, then talk about Kaji and Ritsuko. Any of the adults for that matter. They're the ones who really got shelved, not your precious little Rei.
>he probably doesn't want upset them to the point where they start vandaling his studio or sending him hundreds of death threat letters through the mail again.
And yet he shits out 2.0 and 3.0 and nobody cares.
It's not satire. Every bad movie and dumb decision made isn't "ironic".
What Ikuhara there is talking about is just sadism. He's suggesting it to specifically piss a group of fans off, not to provide satire.
>1 Umizaru 4 $91,331,832
>2 Terumae romae $74,091,903
>3 The Bayside Shakedown the Final) $72,834,411
>4 One Piece Film Z $72,822,122
>5 Les Miserables (2012) $62,095,942
6 Evangelion Shin Gekijôban: Kyu (Evangelion 3.0) $59,891,241
>7 Okami kodomo no ame to yuki $52,544,777
>8 Resident Evil: Retribution $48,340,948
>9 The Avengers (2012) $45,256,010
>10 Eiga Doraemon: Nobita to kiseki no shima - Animaru adobenchâ $44,649,222
>it's OK that Rei gets shat on because she's been popular in the past
Please shut he fuck up. This is what the problem is, fan jealousy. I bet you that Anno might be thinking the same thing, and not just about Rei, but others as well.
Okay so the mainstream popularity exists, we have that established.
So how is it "pandering" when the vast majority appreciates what has already been established in the franchise through the original series? In reality, if Anno pushed forward with the characters and their development he'd be pandering to you and other diehards.
Also let me just say I don't believe in depth character development is a bad thing, obviously. I've just accepted that it's not what the goal is with this film series. That was apparent to me since 2.0.
Otaku loved 2.0 though. 3.0's reception was indifferent, not extremely hated or outraged, but indifferent. Probably because Japan is used to riding his ruse cruises now; the rest of the world not so much (and it shows with /a/'s disdain for 3.0)
Satoshi Kon was cool.
Too bad he's dead.
>In reality, if Anno pushed forward with the characters and their development he'd be pandering to you and other diehards.
Not reality. Making characters independently good is not pandering.
>Also let me just say I don't believe in depth character development is a bad thing, obviously.
Then why are you preaching against it?
>Would you kindly shut up about this for just once, Reifag?
No. I'm a Reifag and that's spot on, but I will not shut up because you ask me to.
You think I want pandering, or that any other character should be pandered? Because I don't.
If you think it's "fair" because Rei was the "franchise figurehead" in the past, that being correct or not, then sweet jesus I hate you so much. Why this outrageous jealousy? Who gives a shit that Rei is "franchise figurehead" except die-hard character-fags that are jealous?
The original treated the characters like actual characters instead of pawns and political set pieces to influence popularity. That is the fundamental issue, and it happens that it does affect Rei, and even Ritsuko and Kaji like you point out.
It affects the entirety of Rebuild that the characters are not developed or at all tied to the story, but just showncased as moe/marketable objects.
It is necessary if the story in itself requires the characters to be well-developed and believable. It is passing off a human element, and as such the characters in it do need to have a sense of quality and sincerity to them.
Movies are great examples of an arena where you can do this with great focus, and Rebuild has four entries in total scheduled.
It IS necessary, moreso than ever before in this case.
Sometimes I think Anno would be better off if he just gave everyone in Eva their own happy ending. Asuka gets to find true acceptance through Mari, Shinji and Kaworu finally get together, Rei is treated and accepted as her person, Misato and Kaji continue their relationship, Gendo unites with Yui and so on.
If he gives everyone a happy ending, then there's really no need for the otaku to continue following the franchise. But he won't, because he wants a steady flow of money. So he'll continue to bait them with ambiguous, depressing, unfulfilling endings.
>Okay so the mainstream popularity exists, we have that established.
For Evangelion as a franchise. Considering Rebuild, some of them are more liked than others.
The mainstream audience prefer the entries that does character development and carry themselves. That is just called being a great movie, it's not pandering.
You know I never thought I'd hear this. Well-written characters, sensible plots, believable performances and meaningful stories are now considered "pandering". Just wow.
Maybe the anime industry really is dead.
>that shits all over the integrity of the original work.
Except it doesn't. We will forget Rebuild long before we forget the original series. In fact I love my 2.22 BD, but I've re-watched the original series more than I've seen any Rebuild movie.
Is this problem also present in 2.0? because I love 2.0 and also love the original series. maybe I'm just different.
Does this guy ever shut the fuck up? I've seen at least 3 instances in the last month where he's said something extremely stupid like the one mentioned.
Why does he pretend he's still relevant? He made some 2deep4you stuff 15 years ago that people liked, screwed that up by committing tax evasion, and all his money after that has been pretty much based on re releases, spin offs or remakes of that one series.
I can't wait 'till he talks about how he hates the amount of pandering in the industry these days, that'll be funny seeing someone rip him a new one.
Asuka might get a happy ending because Rebuild will likely be Yuko's last time reprising the role and she really wants it. Although depending on how much Anno loves money he might just replace her because he can get away with it.
>nostalgiafag tears about other losers not watching Trigun and Slayers and thus treating them like the irreplaceable gift to anime that they totally were
I want tumblr to leave
2.0 also needs to follow the same standard. It's not excused. Neither is 1.0. But both of those actually follow that standard, but not without deviating.
How was I scapegoating them?
You're just being fucking butthurt I'm right. 3.0 is EXACTLY like I described it, and it has provoked the EXACT reaction I describe. You literally can not prove I'm wrong here.
Also it's really funny you neglect >>116273945
who is literally displaying massive jealousy by claiming "YOU HAD YOUR RIDE" or whatever shallow pointless bullshit he thinks qualifies as a "ride".
I'll take Anno seriously when he either starts making movies like his gay dad or he comes back to making TV anime like his gay lover
Get off momma robot dick and make another Nadia already you fucking fag
Asukafags and Kaworufags aren't to blame, they don't write EVA. It's Anno and the sentiments they share.
They find it OK to destroy what >>116273945
calls the "franchise figurehed" just so they can get more time in the spotlight. These are the worst kinds of fans. They're not happy with what they have, and they envy the popularity and traits of others, and end up wanting to destroy the opposition to give more room for themselves.
In the end, even if they don't realize it themselves they are rejecting what they claim to be a fan of. They just want to feel that their opinions are validated through majority approval. They're basic, insecure otaku.
Pick one and only one, we could get into a heated discussion over it, but getting a degree is piss easy to be honest, you just have to show up to class.
Sometimes they don't even care if you show up at all, blame it on my American education but I only attended a good amount of classes for the first week and then never appeared unless it was midterms or the final exam.
Maybe it's completely different in Europe and Asia, but here in burgerland as long as you pass their piss easy tests and complete the boring work supplements (assignments, quizzes, tests, projects, essays that are now done online) you can just not go to school.
Fuck school here, they don't have enough money, some of the teachers don't care, and it's generally a bore.
Those endings aren't happy except for Kaworufags. You are so dense I pity you.
It's clear in how you underestimate and essentially insult other characters how fucking evil your fandom is. You are like a goddamned autist only seeing Evangelion's "other" characters like goddamned objects.
Those endings make zero fucking sense, except for you getting your otaku/fujoshi wish-fulfilment in pairing Kaworu and Shinji.
You are what makes Rebuild bad. You are what makes fandoms toxic.
The same applies to you as much as it does to them, you can't even go one movie without your waifu before screaming death of the character. You can't have a proper Rebuild thread without butthurt Reifags such as yourself trying to troll it.
>They're not happy with what they have, and they envy the popularity and traits of others, and end up wanting to destroy the opposition to give more room for themselves.
You're illogical. You don't even know what kind of hypocritical trash you're writing anymore. You're also an idiot for assuming that the said fans are satisfied with what little they got.
>here in burgerland as long as you pass their piss easy tests and complete the boring work supplements (assignments, quizzes, tests, projects, essays that are now done online) you can just not go to school.
If you're getting some pleb degree, sure.
I wish it was like this in europe.
In short, it is a fucking pain here.
It doesn't apply to me for the simple reason that I acknowledge, as the first-order of my post, that it's not something hat applies to a specific group.
If you read my post, you'll see it is sentiments I am arguing.
So too bad. Your entire post = debunked.
Let me address your "insults" though:
>you can't even go one movie without your waifu before screaming death of the character.
Is this really what you believe? Because wake the fuck up. We've gone THREE movies now. Not one, but three.
The facts show that these three movies, in concert create an overwhelmingly negative insult directed towards Rei. It has the exact effect I am describing, and is exactly the result of these sentiments I am describing.
>You can't have a proper Rebuild thread without butthurt Reifags such as yourself trying to troll it.
If that's how you see 100% legit discussion that comes to pass even without a single Reifag in it, then I say you're being judgemental. You just have a grudge against Reifags for some reason.
Then prove it.
>You're also an idiot for assuming that the said fans are satisfied with what little they got.
Now see the first part of my post. I don't.
I am 100% open to debate you, but if you are basing your entire disagreement with me on the basis that you only want to decry Reifags or defend your own fandom, then you've already lost. Because that is so easy to point out and prove.
>Those endings make zero fucking sense
It doesn't fucking matter if they make sense or not. Ultimately, a majority of otaku and fujos from all sides of the fandom just want to see their favorite characters happy, to the point where they will invalidate the other movies in favor of validating the movie of their choice that caters to their interests. Reifags loved 2.0 but hated 3.0 for that Reason. Asukafags disliked 2.0 but we're okay with 3.0 for that reason. Kaworufags accepted 3.0 but were indifferent to the other movies for that reason.
Deny it as much as you want, but a good deal of people are still watching this shit to see their waifus win or get more screen time. Nothing else. You and I are ultimately a part of that, as much as you refuse to accept it Reifag.
>You are what makes Rebuild bad. You are what makes fandoms toxic.
For the past 2-3 years we haven't been able to hold many decent or logical discussions about the Rebuilds without people like you bitching about muh Rei. If anything, you're part of the cancer.
I refuse to be a part of it, but you are indulging in it just because you are a Kaworufag and a shipper.
The original Evangelion ended without a happy end. You know what happened? It was great. Rei is lauded as a fantastic character. So is everyone else.
Because believe it or fucking not, a happy end is not required, and has never ever been required for a work to be great. But your selfishness and egoism is ruining everything.
I'm not here in every thread. I can go months, weeks and actually abandoned discussing it for a good while.
Yet it's still toxic. It was toxic before 3.0. It has always been and guess who's the reason: not me.
It's not because of Reifags bitching. It's because the movie is outright crap. The biggest shitstorms don't revolve around Rei, but the entire movie.
The only problem I see in these threads are actually people like you. You don't discuss the movie or criticize it, you just come in to complain about meta, the Reifags. If the Reifags are such a problem, then how come they're the one of the only ones discussing the movie? Just because you disagree what they have to say about it doesn't mean they're trolling.
>The original Evangelion ended without a happy end.
The same thing and more happened to her in the manga and yet Reifags still had the audacity to whine and bitch because she didn't "win" anyone or anything.
Meanwhile, Asukafags gloated about how they won the Evajellies again and Kaworufags simply moved on an fucked off.
People want to see their favorite characters happy, but haven't you noticed that people don't give a crap about happy endings? Giving them a happy ending is not enough, people require a good ending.
More shallow fans like Kaworufags would probably eat up a happy ending, especially if it was suitable for shipping.
You have it the other way around. The gloating comes first. Because her winning is a bigger issue for Asukafags and Kaworufags than it is for Reifags.
This has already been proved by HISTORY. The fact is that Rei never won the "evan jellies", yet people loved the character.
The manga is an example of a happy ending that few like, so that's just validating my point that people do not care about happy endings as much as you think.
You're also 100% wrong if you think the manga was a better ending for Rei. It was far, far worse. Keep flaunting your ignorance like this, it only drives my point closer to home more and more. That you do not understand, nor do you want to understand what makes a character great, or much less what makes Rei great.
It's so absolutely basic, a song or piece of music isn't defined to be great or bad based on the note it ends on.
The failure of the manga in regards to Rei is pointlessly blowing her up and providing a pathetic final scene, which in combination with the ending makes Rei just look like a discardable pawn.
A plot device with character development, characterization, and hell, moreso than many of the characters in Rebuild and the manga.
If Rei is a plot device, what does that make the rest? They'd be ten times worse.
But the truth is, your gloating and petty insult aside, they're characters. The manga ending is very negative considering it also loops, for Rei.
It depends on the school. I did engineering and didn't feel too challenged, except the mathematics and the sciences.
Those are actually fucking hard. You don't have to show up, you don't have to do anything but do work assignments, but if you actually want to pass those assignments, if you want to pass your exam, then you are genuinely FUCKED if you haven't been paying attention.
The books aren't enough because you will be given questions that only involve the theory, it's not pre-set up cookie-cutter equations.
It is hard, and you do need to put effort in - especially if you want to do more than just pass.
Kaworufags were part of the gloating too. They're especially high up now after 3.0.
You know there was an entire sticky created just to gloat? Basically the franchise shitting on Rei has become an actual thing now.
See the Ikuhara quote: >>116273916
Back then Anno went down the serious path, and Evangelion was made and credited and acclaimed.
Now they're shitting on Rei ONLY, while doing the opposite for Asuka, Kaworu and the rest of the characters they actually liked.
That is gloating born of jealousy and hatred of Rei. The original happened, and some couldn't just accept that Rei was widely liked. Even here in western fandom, people have been spreading lies, propaganda and much more, while singing the praises of other characters falsely.
Please tell me how this isn't wrong, and how your entire fandom isn't based on a lie.
>It depends on the school. I did engineering and didn't feel too challenged, except the mathematics and the sciences.
I can confirm. I'm a physics/math undergrad. The school is just a decent state school, but you are fucked if you don't show up to class unless you happen to be some sort of genius.
>Reality doesn't lie. The quote doesn't lie.
Anno doesn't lie.
Anno doesn't really say anything against what he says, so...
Although I wouldn't trust either Anno or Miyazaki. You don't know them, I don't know them, they're just anime directors with an interest in portraying themselves as earnest.
Anno saying stuff like in the OP now, while shutting his trap before also has me in doubt.
>Khara is finally going to do something that isn't eva
Still better than subcontracting them to work on other anime while they wank over the 4.0 plot.
I'll take what I can get. Little shorts like these are always great when it comes to animation style.