>”The Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end — it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations,” Anno said in explaining his support of the project. “It may even be too late.”
This has been very obvious for years now. For anime to not become either cute girls doing fanservice and the rest of the studios going bankrupt they would need to either be locked behind a pay-per-view type thing or there would need to be a fund to preserve anime as cultural heritage and essentially not be taxed at all by the government.
Right, human greed is a brand new thing, before the year 2000 people simply made things because it made them happy to entertain others, and donated all the money they made to charities.
>I doubt that was always for money, but I can be wrong.
Something like 'Roujin Z' could never be made in today's industry. Some of them used to at least pretend to do it for art's sake.
Are there even "normalfags" in Japan? I mean the kind of "normalfags" you find in the west. Otherwise I don't see why Anime would try to pander to western normalshits that pirates their product.
>are there even normalfags in japan
yes, did you think they're all watching every anime of the season? They watch a few of the most popular shows, and that's it. Japanese make fun of people like us
Yeah, I'm sure hundreds of people one day said "Let's make art!" and paid out of their pockets for production, advertising, TV slots.
Then an evil person said "We should put this into discs and sell it!" and then capitalism ruined everything.
Most normal people in Japan don't watch anime. When I lived there and got a girlfriend, I even had to hide the fact that I watched One Piece from her, and that's the most popular fucking show there.
Even being suspected of being an Otaku is a mark of shame.
Yeah, I honestly hope the industry dies soon. It's just become a sick joke. When people used to say all anime is just porn, there were always a few artistic shows that showed it wasn't.
It's true now, though. It's just fucking porn. And worse, pedophile porn! It'll implode soon enough.
I heard somewhere that normal fag japs watch shitty nippon soap operas. They could be the Korean or the Chinese ones as well but goddamn they are boring. It would like having to watch those horrible Australian shows day in day out.
>I heard somewhere that normal fag japs watch shitty nippon soap operas.
Yes, like most adults around the world, "normalfags" prefer live action dramas/comedies to cartoon tits.
What i find disderbing is how many people support such disgusting shit that comes on the screen.
I see people going full pedo on here and making sick jokes about drawings. Lusting over drawings is low, if this industry ends so will this monstrosity.
You can subsidize the industry and not necessarily expand the viewership, while having more diversity in content. Or you can attempt to break the perspective that animation is for children and weirdos to try to broaden what is marketable. Doing the latter would require some heroic marketing efforts, I imagine.
I thought live-action adaptations of manga were pretty popular as well.
But I don't really know all that much about Japanese live-action television. All I've seen are tokusatsu shows and Tantei Monogatari.
More like cartoon asses but still don't they have homegrown equivalent shows over there? Like a hunting and fishing show, or Nippon version of Top Gear with an asian Jeremy Clarkson. Because soap operas would get boring as shit after a while.
>Or you can attempt to break the perspective that animation is for children and weirdos to try to broaden what is marketable.
And then lose a shitton of money to other studio that actual delivers what the people wants, failing miserably. Money commands anime, it always have been that way.
>”My career in the Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end — it will be tough to escape unless I can make animation without commercial considerations,” Anno said in explaining his support of the project. “It may even be too late.”
>but still don't they have homegrown equivalent shows over there?
Yeah, they have comedies and all that other shit, except starring nips. Normalfolk the world over tend to like the same boring type of shit.
I'd watch it with my gf before she went off to work and then flip on One Piece or some shit.
She almost caught me watching Madoka once. I'd never been so scared (or changed the channel so fast) in my goddamn life.
Changing public perception of anime will be difficult, but you'd have to do so regardless if you want to subsidise the industry.
The Japanese working class probably wont look to fondly on the fact their taxes are going towards funding late-night otaku wankfests.
What. You don't understand. The goal is to change the general public's perspective on the medium, so that what sells is something other than food for pedophiles and manchildren.
There is a lot of money in movies for normals, and there's no particular reason that they couldn't watch the same movies only animated, except their perception of the medium itself is skewed by its extant audience.
The problem isn't "losing money to other studios," it's having the money necessary to brainwash an entire country in the first place.
>Where do you think you are?
I'm actually quite a nice person on the flipside and have no prior thoughts or desires of ravaging lolis for personal pleasure.
>He doesn't have thoughts or desires of ravaging lolis for personal pleasure.
The Japanese working class won't even know what their taxes are spent on anymore than any other uninformed polity does. I don't exactly see a lot of tears shed by them when their money is spent propping up their whaling industry--producing meat no one wants, except from the foreigners that think whales are people.
There isn't any trouble ahead for the industry, just Anno.
Once again, the Master's ego is at work. If there's trouble ahead for Anno, it means the industry is in trouble too.
>Uh oh, I can't find a way to make the stuff I want to make, I might be forced to work on some seasonal show like a pleb!
>Rabble rabble rabble!
>The industry is in trouble!
>Support artistic pet projects by auteur directors like myself!
>Rabble rabble rabble!
>Then you're probably aware of all the fan service, nudity, and delicious lolis from 80s shows.
There wasn't nearly as much as there is now. I only recall one pair of boobs in the last show I watched (Mobile Suit Gundam).
>I don't exactly see a lot of tears shed by them when their money is spent propping up their whaling industry--producing meat no one wants
A few of my Japanese coworkers love whale meat. They order it everytime we go to an Izakaya.
>>There wasn't nearly as much as there is now.
There's more anime now if that's what you mean, so there's a lot more of everything.
Proportionately, it's roughly the same, though there was so little anime being made per-year before the 90s that it's hardly a fair comparison.
Jesus. Stop being afraid of your girlfriend and just tell her.
Hell, most of the time folks like you don't hide it as well as you think you do. So chances are she already knows.
>He isn't because he is a delusional moralfag fascist hopeful that doesn't know nearly as much about the medium as he thinks he does.
If you're honestly trying to say there was anywhere NEAR the amount of blatant sick babygirl pedo fanservice in the 80s as there is today, you're just a fucking liar.
By "dead end", I'm guessing what he means is that anime panders to the otaku audience and is surviving off of that audience. The problem is that creating anime like that is extremely hard to sell to wider audiences. On one hand if the anime industry stops pandering to the otaku audience, it will die off, but on the other hand if it doesn't start producing anime with wider appeal it will never grow bigger, so there's really nowhere to go.
Then need to bring back some of the hyper-realistic gore that was inherent in the 80s and 90s OVAs. That shit pushed some boundaries big time.
This trend will continue until studios can find a consistent alternate sources of funding, the most logical being studios funding there own projects. When you have a someone funding your project they have you by the balls and they will push for maximum profitability, which will involve pandering to popular trends and appealing to the largest amount of customers.
>the most logical being studios funding there own projects
All animation studios are way too poor for this though. The only way this could happen on an industry level is if many animation studios merged, leaving only a few big studios.
Sadly it's true.
They've gone so far into pandering, that they've cut off the small niche of people who watched anime for other reasons.
Some people actually watched anime because it use to be a means of enjoying a unique story you couldn't find on the big screen or in any other medium. Anime use to be extremely experimental - this use to be it's big selling point!
Now that anime industry has pigeonholed itself into a pandering repetitious mess, it's going to be a fucking struggle to appeal to outsiders.
They either have to sink with the ship, or find a way to break away from it.
What ever they were smoking back then must have been some strong shit, the last one that I saw that could just barely compare with the likes of these was Elfen Lied. And even that was pretty fucking tame by comparison.
I agree we need some more edgy OVAs (and I mean edgy in its original, legitimate sense, calm your neckbeard).
These days the only OVAs I look forward to are ecchi shows like Kiss x Sis or High School DxD.
How to profit with anime 80's:
1) Cool looking Robots
2) Cool looking transforming Robots
How to profit with anime 90's:
1) Cool looking Robots
2) Cute lolis.
How to profit with anime 00's:
1) Main cast consist of cute loli girls.
2) Intro and ED song has some catchy dance.
How to profit with anime 10's
1) Main cast has lolis.
2) Main cast has good looking guys.
When people like Anno and Miyazaki complain about the state of the industry you need to understand that they're not consumers, they're directors. They are currently stuck in an industry where there is no room for directors and writers to fulfill their own visions. Literally the only person in the industry who has been able to do whatever the fuck he wants and actually be an artist was Miyazaki.
He's only making rebuild ironically.
Read the filename nigger
If they keep it in nipland it will be fine but soon as you start showing those sorts of shows here people are gonna cry bitch tears. Especially if its the likes of women and children getting brutalized on screen.
If she's worth marrying at all, she'll have no problem with your hobbies.
Still, if that's the way you're going to be, be sure to share her reaction when you show her your secret lair dedicated to your waifu.
But you can't predict what will gain wide appeal even if that IS your stated intent. I'm sure something like Coyote Ragtime Show or Licensed By Royal were trying to hit it big in the mainstream, but those series can crash and burn as easy as anything else. For a modern example we can again beat up on Fractale.
Fine then you little nigger. The first one was Genocyber and the other one is Angel Cop.
By "no room" what you actually mean is nobody is willing to throw money at auteurs anymore. Anno himself was the kind of director and producer who'd take a risk on a script or an idea back in the 80s, and he's not seeing a lot of that kind of attitude anymore.
And that's dangerous (for him) because it means he might soon run out of collaborators willing to invest or work on his projects with him. The industry is becoming very mechanical in how it produces anime.
This generation is following the 'sex sells' rule including music industry.
It'll take years for this trend to end since lust is the hardest thing to overcome and so easy to give into.
This lolicon,hentai bullshit for losers will continue since apparently they are making money out of that.
Yeah no, I don't like it when Anno tells everyone that the industry is shit and stagnant while he himself continues to milk his 20 year old franchise instead of creating something new (until now with the animatorexpo), unlike for example Miyazaki who didn't get stuck milking Totoro and Nausciaa for the rest of his life, but that doesn't change the fact that what Anno says is true.
Risks need to be taken in order to break the otaku stigma that anime has.
No, but that's probably the mindset of most people going into creative industries. I think you're being overly cynical if you think that there isn't people that are into art just for the sake of art. It's just that you can't fund a project easily, so it's understandable to make compromises.
It's becoming quickly apparent that the anime industry's future will involve catering to the western market if the people working it in it want to expand or survive.
The problem is shitty dubbing companies and western viewers pirating everything.
No, he means a dead end for auteurs, like him, who are finding it increasingly difficult to find talented people to work with on artistic projects. Animation studios anymore are links in a giant commercial chain that connects artists, publishers, toy manufacturers, retail outlets, and advertisers. There's very little artistic individuality in anime these days because it's produced as part of a giant corporate marketing plan. And this model is quickly becoming the only model for animation to survive in Japan.
The studios themselves still employ artists and auteurs, original anime still get made, but to survive the studios have to endless LN and manga adaptations, or anime based off video games or card games, or whatever the fuck.
So basically he feels like the animation industry in Japan is being shackled by this adaptation business model, because animators have become too dependent on being a link in the chain they don't have the freedom to take risks and do artsy projects.
It's essentially a problem for artists in the industry, not consumers. Consumers by all accounts are happy with how the industry is, since it's still going strong despite economic recession.
I wouldn't call space dandy a risk. Appealing to wider audiences doesn't necessarily mean reaching out to the west. The biggest problem anime has is the pandering. Space Dandy was good, but it still had its fair share of otaku pandering.
Why do you care so much about the otaku stigma? Why do you feel the need for your hobby to be validated by others? It's not like there's a lack of fans really, anime expo is held in my state along with famine and the majority of people I see and engage with there aren't fat mouthbreathers
Wider audiences don't bite in Japan. Let's assume they make an anime for Drops of God, it'll still fucking bomb in disc sales because CASUALS DO NOT BUY ANIME, despite that manga being super fucking popular to the point of influencing Japanese wine purchasing.
The western market will only ever be a secondary market for Japan. The primary target of anime is still Japanese audiences, because they see the most returns from domestic consumers.
i sincerely doubt any of you have the slightest idea of what your talking about.
my own experience of visiting Japan i was very open about being a westerner big on otaku culture and im just gona lay it out straight nobody gives half a shit. in fact people were interested in what kinds of shows i watched and if i was keeping up with hunterXhunter. we are talking about a female 50 year old hotel manager. she was so exited when i showed her the jojo figure id just bought.
more than that if you board any train in tokyo/osaka/kyoto or any big city with a large rail network you'll see dozens of people reading manga casually because believe it or not most of the shit is actually good and western translators only cover shitty shonen or moe shit.
the same applies here in the west everyone on /a/ seems to have this idea that people care what you do and if you like anime you must hide your power level. nobody cares.
if the Japanese look down on otaku in anyway its usually ugly fat sweaty nerds and skinny spotty virgins who nobody likes anyway even if they aren't otaku because nobody likes ugly people
A 50% drop in pandering to NEETS could mean a potential loss of profits in a sink or swim industry. I doubt they could take such a risk easily with the way anons in this thread are going on about it.
IT'S THE SAME FUCKING THREAD THST IS POSTED EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND GUESS WHAT, IT'S SOME SHITTY OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTE ABOUT A DIRECTOR THAT NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ANYMORE.
GREAT JOB OP, IM SURE YOU'LL GET SOME INTERESTING CONCLUSIONS OUT OF THIS
I thought cute girls and good looking guys were always profitable.
Because otaku pandering often results in unsatisfactory shows.
To be able to talk with a random person about anime is not what I want. I want an industry that has the potential to constantly produce interesting stories that take an advantage of the medium. There are maybe one or two shows like that per year.
You seem frustrated Anon-kun. Would you like to sit down and have a little chat about it?
>all these people trying to measure the success of the anime industry in terms of the quantity of anime produced, rather than the overall quality of anime produced
Get a load of these fucking plebeians
Bullshit, he poureed his heart and soul on NGE, and everythings there, you just need to look for it.
Annos finished with his work, and is riding on its well deserved sucess for now, whilist helping a ton of other studios and projects, hes trying to milk his own work so that he can help others. He should be commended, but you faggots have to prove his point by misinterpretating everything this man stands for.
Ratings matter if it's on during primetime hours or a Sunday. Otherwise your latenight ratings don't account for anything, production committees actually have to buy the timeslot to promote the anime.
Oh boy, this retarded argument again. Disc prices are what they are because the price doesn't really affect sales. Otaku will buy them regardless of price, normalfags won't buy them no matter what.
If they cut BD prices in half, they'd have to sell double. But they won't. Because normalfags don't buy BDs very often. So they'll just end up losing money.
It's a fact that the industry is making more money now than it ever was before, and it's producing more anime than ever before. They have no reason to change this model when it's proven to be so successful.
I wonder if Anno feels any shame or guild for pioneering the moe-harem craze and having to milk Eva again just to fund his new studio.
It only really started being this overwhelmingly with the switch to the late night premium BD production committee funded style model that started really taking off in the mid 2000's.
There's nothing for them to wise up to. They all know what's happening to them.
It's like knowing you're going to exterminate blue fin tuna. You know you're going to do it, it's going to fuck your anus raw when you do it, but you want to pay your bills so you go out every year and catch more blue fin tuna, because that's all you know how to do.
Well no wonder your experience was better then most. Japs tend to have a love/hate relations with merricans. Englsih, French and Australians tend to have it better over there.
>They have no reason to change this model when it's proven to be so successful.
Which is why all this bitching from old guys who no longer work in the TV industry and MuhCowboyBebopians is asinine. "B-but, 20 years from now Japan will have a serious birth decline." We can worry about that 20 years from now, this is entertainment not the fucking nation's GDP.
Anime maker argues for anime subsidy. What a surprise.
Just cut costs, widen audience, find new income streams or business model. Whatever. Maybe Japan doesn't have to make 20 shit shows a season.
I don't think anime is in the best place right now, hasn't been for a while, but whining about it does nothing. Particularly hard to stomach from one of the most commercially successful anime producers.
shit like product placement (if any), OPs and EDs are basically adverts for the latest artists and groups most of the time too now, just because they need every penny they can get.
Because to air on primetime usually means sanitation and being family-friendly, or it means being something adapted from old-as-fuck and nationally treasured manga, like Golgo 13.
It also means running long and looking cheap, like Golgo 13.
There's this little thing called inflexible demand.
They tried lowering the price of BDs; but no one bought them. They tried making normalfag-oriented programming; but no one watched it.
The industry has made very real attempts to branch out through ventures like noitaminA but people are simply not interested.
Otaku actually buy Blu-Rays so the market will always favour the obsessive fan demographic.
Why should they need to pander to western audiences? Didn't we come to love anime when it was still aimed at Japanese only? Maybe the creators had some western influence but I doubt their creative thought processes included "those gaijin are sure to love this."
I have respect for Anno in that he's willing to put up his own money to see others succeed. The tokusatsu exhibit also earns him a lot of point in my book. I only wish I could have visited it.
>Says anime is ok to watch in Japan
>Only mentions a 50yr old hotel manager
Ever talk to any breeding-age girls about it, son? I lived there, and speak the nihongo jyouzu. I went to clubs on the weekend and hung out in restaurants with my girlfriend and group of friends. None of them watched or read anime. My gf literally made fun of otaku she saw on the train for watching naruto.
People read manga, yes. Just like people read garfield comics here. They don't watch fucking cartoons, though.
Unless they're 50-year old fucking hotel managers (wtf point were you trying to prove with that shit, seriously?)
>"Ay mag den I was like fuck her rite in da pussy!! ahahah lmao"
>"Nah you fukin talkin bulshit cunt, you all fukin shit m8 ahaha"
>"Ere lik you would fukin know cunt, ay you stil goin to Bazzas for a piss up this arvo?"
>"Yea course m8 wouldn miss it for the world"
you have a point concerning my reception but my statement still stands. walk down main street akihabara and its not full of sweaty nerds but legitimately normal people the a good majority women and attractive ones too.
on the other hand the hentai dōjinshi floor in maderakes is a different matter entirely but its not rare to see women in there but they are usually upstairs browsing yaoi
And the women browsing for Yaoi they would look similar to pic relate?
>I would bang that crazy eyes down bottom right with the force of an angry god.
It's a mixed bag for me. Most of my favorite works are Kon's, Dai Soto's, or things like Princess Tutu and Serial Experiments Lain. Some of those, like Ergo Proxy, were expressly attempting to pander to Westerners. Others, not so much.
Advertising costs more money, but the overall point is that normals don't buy discs so production committees aren't going to produce expensive normalfag anime when it's just going to end up as a loss. Chihayafuru S1 did make manga sales quadruple but that's rare.
>I was a friends with a bunch of normals and none of them had any interest in you're stupid girl cartoons so your wrong fukken nerd shitter
What a wonderful point you're making
You mean like Frozen? Also helps that it's widely distributed and the companies producing it has an endless bucket to advertising funds. Outside of movies, western animation is kind of dead.
>What a wonderful point you're making
My point was that normal people don't like anime, which some retard actually had the nerve to try and disprove. I think I did pretty well.
You are talking in terms of "this is how it has always been, this is how it will always be".
It is change that we are talking here. What would be for the best for the industry?
>consistently create good anime that doesn't pander to the otaku audience
but the industry is too dependent on the otaku audience to go for such a large scale change, so this will never happen, therefore the industry has hit a dead end.
>Dat bottom right
Its just like my chinese cartoons.
Seems like it'll be all good for at least another 5 years so that's good enough. Anime has always been like this no?
It feels like every other industry has a hit a wall but it will all keep trucking.
>consistently create good anime that doesn't pander to the otaku audience
There are very few studios that could even hope to get enough money overcome that barrier ONCE, even then their chance of success is fucking nothing
mate want me to list every single person i spoke to in japan? im giving a brief example of the reception i received by an age group not usually targeted by otaku culture.
i did have a fantastic experience with these 3 dudes in a hot spring (yaoi pun intended) who were into mech anime they seemed perfectly normal. and my travel friend had her manga stuff out in a caffee and some "breeding age girls" came up and seemed interested in what she was drawing we don't speak alot of jap but they said it looked good by what i can tell
its usually just stuck up upper class fags and old preachy directors who are up there own arse who condemn normal anime same with people who takr the piss out of star treck and super heros and shit in the west (like anyone even dose that any more)
The salient point has already been made.
The manga industry has nothing to do with the perception of the anime industry in glorious Nippon.
You don't cite the popularity of manga to suggest that telling normals that you like watching Precure will result in social inclusion.
Everyone was eager to see my loli rape pillow!
>This trend will continue until studios can find a consistent alternate sources of funding,
While most can't afford to fund their own projects, a few studios have gone the path of finding work outside of the collective box.
Madhouse is a shining example of this. Over the past few years, they've been slowly building up their portfolio with work that goes beyond the typical. They've done plenty of work for Disney and Marvel, The Supernatural Animation, western and eastern videogames, and short animations for big picture films and small music videos.
Madhouse also has a habit of straying from "pandering" series. Any show that they've done that does include pandering is done so very restrictively.
Studios should learn to outsource more. Break away from the norm.
Does your father also work for Nintendo?
He already has anon, He even has his own harem and waifu.
>Also Book-chan a shit
mate pics and timestamps or no gf. your trying too hard and your gay until you can prove otherwise
No. Is this some meme or something?
I just masquerade as a normal to get pussy. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first.
In fact, judging from the popularity of Marvel movies, I'm pretty sure I'm not even the 1000th person to do this.
Yeah brah I know what you mean being balls deep only to finesh it off with her sucking you off at the end. Shits so fucking cash amirite? Ayy lmao gonna hit it up at the party tonight and score myself some mean bitches as well, have a little extra on the side.
>Outside of movies, western animation is kind of dead.
Even the adult swim type shows put up better numbers than most late night anime. This is the audience they could go after.
Aqua Teen Hunger Force vol. 5 (2008) - 61,155
Archer Season 4 (2014) - 56,182
The Venture Bros. 5th Season (2014) - 29,510
While we're on the topic, how was it that anime got stuck being aired at like 1 AM in the morning when normal people are asleep, besides the stuff they produce for kids? I can't imagine that's much good for advertising money.
I guess you might have to neuter the content a bit if you want to air it a little earlier, but honestly, making anime a little more tasteful and restrained wouldn't hurt and being so dependent on pandering to otaku is what got them into this rut in the first place.
Geeze anon does it take you that long to come up with a witty response?
As it was said earlier, the production committee has to buy the time slot, and late night is the cheapest. They don't draw a big audience and make hardly anything on advertising. A lot of people record the shows on their DVR and watch them later.
After what happened to /v/ there are still people saying that otaku are killing anime?
Heck. chances are, most people complaining about anime here are from /v/;.
Otaku are what is saving anime. See what happened to games when they became more popular and mainstream.
Also you can stop the avatar fagging now, it will save you having to browse through your anime reaction face folder
the embarrassment of being a total faggot stays not matter what you do, unfortunately.
>Got stuck airing in late night timeslots
It has always preferred airing in those slots because it's cheaper, even decades ago. Sure, they might have moved to even cheaper timeslots recently, but even something like Rose of Versailles aired at 7 PM on a Wednesday back from 1979 to 1980, on the Nippon TV channel, which even used to air Ghibli movies.
7 PM isn't late night, though. That's primetime. Second you go past 10 or 11 is when you hit the late night.
Now, admittedly, the Japanese workday is a bit different from the west so the primetime sentiment may be lost.
Yeah, 7 PM is not bad by Western standards. I'm not sure how accurate the accounts I've heard of some Japanese staying in the workplace until like 8~9 PM are, so for the moment I'll accept that 7 PM is a good time.
Besides late night though, there were some shows that aired in that awkward time right before work ends, like Patlabor on Wednesday at like 5-5:30 PM. That time isn't really good for kids either, judging from what I know of the Japanese schoolday.
I haven't really found a good database for the airing times of older shows, so I've really just been using Google. There's a partial list of airing times for some late 80's shows here, if you want to look into it.
But yes, the 1 AM timeslot seems to be a more recent development.
The general problem with trying to attack anime or manga is that there are tens of thousands of counterexamples that would just make her look like an idiot lashing out at a few titles she doesn't like.
>EVA got a retarded marchandise in everything such as Alcohol, rice, paperweight and etc.
>it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations
Why this guy is always completely Bullshit?
She does it without commending good games with female protagonists or mentioning series that are actually more popular with women such as Animal Crossing.
She could very well do the same with anime and manga and the idiots that support her would go with it.
Yeah. Distinction with anime is that there's basically just one website that anyone bothers to look at for news, and no one gives a fuck about anime journalism or critic scores.
Wow, anyone take this fag seriously?
And anime was never doing better. Sales are insanely good and there are more shows than ever.
Fuck pandering to normalfags.