The horror genre is like comedy: very, very hard to do properly. Interestingly, if done poorly both genres tend to swap. (E.g., the Another anime ended up as a comedy, and boring comedies tend to be horrifically boring experiences.)
Horror is hard to do in the anime/manga style because those styles are normally a "cute" aesthetic which conflicts with the horror elements. Even when used as juxtaposition, such as in Higurashi, the cute element overwhelms the horror element. Then again, I don't usually get scared by horror. The worst I ever feel is disgusted, so maybe I just don't really know what scares most people.
>>115831904 There's actually a hell lot more "non-cute" art style in manga than you think. To be fair to you, your ignorance probably stems from the fact that a lot of them aren't and never will be translated.
>>115831946 You are severely underestimating the number of manga with typical cute aesthetic. Manga is derived from this aesthetic, such as how Bambi influenced Tezuka. You'll find some manga with more realistic character designs but they are outnumbered. Even serious manga like Punpun uses a cute aesthetic.
>>115832058 I never denied that there were stuff that isn't cute. I said the reason horror is hard to do in anime and manga is because they normally use a cute style. That's why shows like Higurashi or Another can never be scary no matter how hard they try.
>>115832442 >movies 99 percent of horror movies is laughably bad, and before you ask I'm not just talking about shit slasher movies like Nightmare on Elm Street. Lynch >inb4 hurr overrated hack is closer to making actually scary movies than most http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4gkz9bH68 Seriously, this shit is more unnerving than every single horror movie I saw.
>>115832569 Yes because they borrow from the mainstream manga aesthetic which is a cute one. Big glossy eyes, small noses, small lips, these are all stylizations that make the characters appear more cute. The round geometry also makes characters more cute. These traits are considered cute and when I refer to a cute aesthetic it's these things I'm talking about. A manga can use this aesthetic without having the actual story be "cute". When I refer to cute I don't mean the hypercuteness found in some things like K-On, I'm talking about the base manga aesthetic which was derived from the Disney aesthetic. There are manga that don't have this aesthetic and they typically feature humans that are more realistic looking and less stylized.
>>115832760 >Psycho, The Shining Those are good in terms of horror because they are unsettling and creepy, not because they make you jump. The blood elevator scene in The Shining, if you see it in a theater, is fucked. Makes me squirm
>>115833078 Read Kazuo Umezu's stuff, he's Ito's most visible influence. In my opinion The Drifting Classroom is his best work but it's not entirely horror. It has scary parts but it's more of a survival drama.
Suehiro Maruo has made lots of classics too, check him out.
Here's a good list of recs for other stuff: http://spiraphobia.tumblr.com/recommendations
>>115832873 Sure you can say that most horror manga don't follow those traits, my point still stands that most manga do, and most anime horror follow it as well. Also even in your image, those characters look more cute than the girl from the exorcise.
Maybe if I said that anime and manga have a harder time being scary because they normally have a cartoonish aesthetic you would agree with me then? I still stand by my original point however.
>>115833300 >Sure you can say that most horror manga don't follow those traits, my point still stands that most manga do
And what does other manga have to do with horror manga? Are you literally saying that you judge horror manga based on the art style used by manga that isn't horror? How the fuck does that make any sense?
>Maybe if I said that anime and manga have a harder time being scary because they normally have a cartoonish aesthetic you would agree with me then?
No I wouldn't since most horror manga and a lot of seinen in general favors aesthetics based on realism over more cartoonish styles.
For comparison here's a horror manga targeted towards a younger audience that actually *does* have a cartoonish aesthetic. Compare it to my examples above and try to tell me that you don't see the difference.
>>115833557 >And what does other manga have to do with horror manga? I said that because people said my statement that manga usually have a cute aesthetic was false.
>Compare it to my examples above and try to tell me that you don't see the difference. I do see a difference but the other stuff isn't exactly realism either even if they are less stylized than most manga and anime. I'm not saying your wrong in finding it scary, but the art style does make it hard for some people to find it scary compared to images of real people or even just leaving the image to your imagination.
Also I assume you are just talking about my statement about manga and not anime, right?
>>115833735 >I said that because people said my statement that manga usually have a cute aesthetic was false.
Because it is? You said that manga that isn't horror looking cute somehow has something to do with horror manga, which doesn't normally look cute.
I don't even understand what you're trying to say now.
>I do see a difference but the other stuff isn't exactly realism either even if they are less stylized than most manga and anime
There's a limit to how realistic comics can get by their very nature and horror manga tend to look about as realistic as they come.
I mean I guess if you don't like that then that's fine, you just gotta understand that drawings aren't photographs and that just because something is drawn doesn't mean it's done in a cutesy style or even has anything in common with manga done in that style.
I mean fuck, do you seriously label everything that isn't 100% photorealistic "cute"? That just reeks of inexperience to me.
>>115833935 I'll concede that manga isn't cute because it seems by saying that people didn't get my point.
>There's a limit to how realistic comics can get by their very nature and horror manga tend to look about as realistic as they come. We watch and read horror because we know it isn't real which makes it easier for us to digest it. But there still needs to be an element of realism so that we can feel a fear of things happening in front of us. There are many forms of horror that range from an abstract to physical. Different people have different reactions but for some people the aesthetic in anime and manga is too unreal to feel that immediate sense of horror.
A lot of anime horror (not talking about manga) still retains the usual "cute aesthetic". If you don't like me calling it cute then I'll say it's clean and not ugly. By that I mean the visuals of most of the characters is attractive, unlike a lot of western animation where the characters look ugly. This is because of a lot of things like line-work, shapes, color, and proportions. My example I gave is Higurashi. The show is too "cute" to be seen as scary.
>mean fuck, do you seriously label everything that isn't 100% photorealistic "cute"? No but a lot of anime and manga are. Stick figures are not cute, most modern and ancient art is not cute but some western animation such as Pixar films are "cute". A lot of cartoons are, but a lot aren't. Western comics aren't normally cute, and AS animations are not cute.
>>115833507 >I refer to real life movies, and also just text stories. >just text stories Sometimes elements can conflict with each other and so something that would have been scary isn't. It's like bad acting in a horror movie. The elements might be scary but if it's delivered in a poor way then it's no longer scary.
>>115834371 >The show is too "cute" to be seen as scary. I'm guessing you've never felt the effects of juxtaposition then. Not that it necessarily applies to Higurashi, I just found it pretty boring personally.
I can really see how your skewed point of view makes it difficult for you to enjoy manga. Or rather a whole lot in general. That's your own personal problem that you have to deal with.
>>115834475 your argument is still that horror is impossible simply due to aethetics if the framing and balance of the imagery is appropriate for evocating a certain feeling it wouldn't matter what the visual themes were certain something as broad and simple as 'cute' wouldn't be grounds for something to be not horror however poorly thought out construction of imagery would ruin even the most terrifying designs and well-crafted plot
in sum, execution is far more important than content and style in creating an emotional piece, which is what horror is
>>115834540 Is it really so hard for you to understand that some people find realistic images more scary than drawn images? I'm not saying anything outlandish here. Do you think I'm personally insulting you by saying this? I don't have a problem enjoying manga. I just don't get scared by it, and for a lot of people that's what they want from horror. I personally prefer the atmosphere of horror over the actual "scares" and I like a feeling of dread rather than a feeling of fright. In that way I can still get an enjoyment from horror manga but that's not enough for some people.
Horror is just really difficult to do because it needs to be interesting with a certain amount of mystery to it, and it needs to be able to maintain a good atmosphere which generally requires very good writing and pacing. Both of which anime is very well known for in general. Not to mention there isn't very much that actually falls into "horror" and isn't just drama with some thriller/gore elements put into it, so when you have such a small pool to choose from, it'll mostly be shit.
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