>>115455794 Because George Lucas had some pretty stupid ideas, which were filtered out in the episodes IV, V and VI by his editors and other members on the set while Episodes I, II and III are basically 100% George Lucas because nobody dare oppose him due to the how well IV, V and VI were received.
>>115455794 George wasn't actually responsible for much of the work done on the original trilogy. He was ordered by the studio to have other people do certain things that he would have ordinarily done himself. A lot. When the decision to make the prequels came around, he was for some reason given full reign over many decisions, and the result is the awful mess that is apparent in Menace to Revenge. I read in an interview with one of the top guys that worked on Menace that when the final screening was shown to people who had worked on it, they all sat in silence, even when George asked them with a grin what they all thought. They all knew it was shit, and no one wanted to say anything.
>>115456431 No. The Star Wars prequels were the Naruto of anime. The Rebuild equivalent of Star Wars will be the new trilogy coming out next year with VII.
>>115456231 In that case, Ikuhara is way closer to Lucas than Anno. The problem with Anno is that he's washed up and his team (pretty much the same guys who worked with him on NGE) are washed up too. It's not the same case of the prequels
Anno hates the Eva fanbase because at the time, it was made up of typical mecha fans who were anal devastated that the plot was too deep for them and that the story didn't reach a solid conclusion, and typical otaku who only cared for the girls. He especially hates Rei fans, because he wrote Rei to be a detestable character. After the TV series ended, Gainax were bombarded with death threats, and their entire studio was vandalised. Even when he was making The End of Evangelion, this happened, and the anime community supported the vandalism because he wasn't making the movie fast enough, which led to him releasing Death and Rebirth just to appease the "fans".
Meanwhile, the female side of the fanbase sent Gainax fan letters and gifts, complimenting Anno for trying something new with the mecha genre, thoughtful critiques on how Eva could've been bettered or improved if not for the low budget (which they acknowledged, unlike the neckbeards,) thank-you notes for writing in female characters and a philosophical story that felt genuinely important and real.
And /a/ wonders why there was so much fujoshit pandering in 3.0...
>>115457150 I'm going to say that flat out, I don't like Utena or early Sailor Moon or honestly anything that Ikuhara has ever done.
That being said, I still think he deserves credit for that stuff because he genuinely had ideas and conveyed his own very weird vision. It's not like George Lucas where the hack director got credit for coming up with everything when the other people working on the film saved it from being a complete disaster.
I consider Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou to be even better than Eva. He just couldn't ever finish it because of a combination of GAINAX being indited for tax fraud and the manga author hating how he 'changed' the story. Which he changed it for the better over the rather weak manga.
But it's true. He made some good shit when he was younger and had constraints and people who would tell him that some of his ideas are bad. Now that he's famous and has nigh unlimited money, he makes shit because everyone is afraid to tell him no, and thus adds dark splotches to otherwise good franchises.
That paragraph applies to both Lucas and Anno. Lucas at least sold his shit to someone who could fix it. Anno never will.
The biggest vision shift, however, came from George Lucas himself. According to one source, Lucas took statues of Darth Maul and Darth Talon - a character from the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse - faced them toward one another, and declared, "They're friends!" When it was brought to Lucas' attention that Maul and Talon lived more than a century and a half apart from one another, Lucas reportedly suggested it could be a clone or descendant that players controlled instead of the original Maul.
I didn't feel despair. Just confusion. Most people had the same view. THey went in expecting to learn the origins of Darth Vader and an 'action' movie like Return of the Jedi. Instead, they got a whiny kid, really hammy acting and Ang Lee lightsaber acrobatics.
Anyone with half a brain could follow the plot. Anakin turns into Darth Vader. Palpatine uses him to gain power. Its everything else that shat on the old movies/books that made us go 'wtf'? Especially Anakin building C-3PO and Anakin coming from Tatooine. Seriously Lucas...does EVERY aspect of Star Wars have to revolve around the most boring desert world in the galaxy? I think if so many important characters kept going through that damn planet over 2000 years, even people in the story would start to notice.
>>115462196 I grew up with the original trilogy airing on TV. I saw all 3 of the prequels on the theater expecting the best. My dad took me to watch all 3, I was 14 when Episode III came out. I miss you dad ;_;
To be fair, Lucas was one of the two people who edited A New Hope and 'fixed' it. Which just makes it all the more confusing that Phantom Menace is one of the worst edited movies in history. Its like they picked every single scene that has the worst acting and biggest gaffs. Then put those in the final product.
Empire is clearly the crowning jewel of the series. But Return of the Jedi suffers from most of the same problems as the other movies. Slapdash cuts, multiple plot lines with no consistency in flow, hammy overacting, etc.
If anything, Empire Strikes Back just feels like an amazingly well developed drama story in an otherwise tongue and cheek series. Like a serious filler arc in Naruto focusing on Shikimaru. Where the rest of Naruto is horribly predictable and trite.
>>115462799 RotJ had a lot of problems, but I feel it delivered where it needed to. It was a fun movie and it was a great end to Darth Vader and Luke's story. Imo it's miles above A New Hope which I found really boring and with some terrible writing.
>>115462346 >At least with the rebuilds, I didn't do that until the second one. 2.0 was where the fun seemed to be unfold. Too bad 3.0 blew it, which made them both shit. I take my bet on Anno pulling some insane shit with 3.0 + 1.0 and starting another 15 years flamewar on whether Rebuild was shit or not.
Some of them did. Like my sister who is one of the biggest Star Wars fans alive. But after a few years, even she started to realize the prequels were bad and didn't live up to her idealized view of the first three movies.
But other Star Wars fans are in complete denial. Plus, the legion of kids who got into the series with the prequels (and stuff like Clone Wars or the video games). These younger people not only liked the prequel movies, but many of them prefer them.
And here's the mind blowing part. Those 'kids' are now old enough to post on 4chan. Since Phantom Menace is 15 years old. Imagine all those millions of kids defending the new JJ Abrams movies. Which are just going to be a glorified Transformers clone with the Star Wars name tacked on.
>>115463310 With all the Gerry Anderson spaceships and pink titty girl in the trailers, and the "let's replace one of the major characters with someone who just looks a bit like her", my reaction, in the words of Han Solo were "I have a bad feeling about this." Then the plot summaries started trickling out
>just make everything digital >it looks just like real life!
The Star Wars prequels had uncanney valley syndrome the very first time they were shown. The CGI looked bad even for its time. Considering they were some of the biggest budget movies up to that time, its really idiotic.
Yet the plastic models in the old movies still stand up. And the models in the Star Trek movies were 100x better (also done by ILM). Its completely stupid why Lucas threw 30+ years of technology out the window and jumped on cheap CG. But I guess you can't argue with sales.
>>115463546 He's right though. It would be better if they were just done completely by computer. I really hope, although I doubt it'll happen, that the sequels aren't live action, because Hamill and Ford are just plain too old to be the main characters for this type of movie.
He made 3 movies before even Star Wars. And his best work was writing the first three Indiana Jones movies. But he even ruined that series.
Its all further proof that Lucas has good ideas, but can't execute them well. Some people are good at producing, others at directing. Lucas is a producer...but needs other people to form his ideas into a solid work.
>and they made the good decision of throwing out the EU while leaving the old canon guys in charge.
You are literally the apologetic cancer killing the Star Wars series.
Many of those 'EU' things were done by the people who worked on the first three movies. Such as X-Wing/Tie Fighter video games. Which were directly overseen by the Lucasarts crew that worked on Empire Strikes Back/Return of the Jedi.
Throwing out all of the EU was the dumbest thing they could ever do. Because they 'decanonized' the best parts of Star Wars. Especially the Thrawn Trilogy, which should have been the basis for the new movies. Now we're just gonna get a group of kids who go on an adventure and rebel against their parents (aka Han, Leia and Luke).
>>115463665 >And the models in the Star Trek movies were 100x better Any time a ship blew up in a Trek movie it was a fucking masterpiece. Star Wars just covered the ship with an explosion effect, Star Trek let you watch the ship break apart.
>>115463729 She was supposed to be this weird uncanny valley sort of not quite human, but she just came over as this kuudere. They should have gone with Ikuni's suggestion that Rei should be married and pregnant in the last episode.
>>115463731 >On /a/ >Wouldn't choose animation over live action And no, that it's CG doesn't make it not animation. Plus, with the amount of CG the Star Wars have in them pretty much the only thing that isn't CG is the actors. So I really don't see the point.
>>115463819 I never got to "catch up" with SW like I wanted to, but as I understand it a lot of stuff has already been bought back in the new canon sources. For example the first official novel bought back a lot of Shadows of the Empire stuff. I think they should officially bring back some of the stuff fans like, but the guys in charge of canon seem to be SW guys and not Disney guys so it's not really an issue.
>>115463729 Rei was "detestable" but not in that sense. Rei was written to be a cosmic horror in Shinji's mother lookalike disguise, Asuka was a problematic child who also was Anno's waifu. Also NGE's Asuka is not Rebuild's Asuka. Shinji was really terrified by Rei near the end of NGE.
The guy behind Metroid Other M was one of the two co-creators of Metroid. And directed Metroid 1, Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission.
The comparison with him to Lucas is apt. But blaming him for 'killing Metroid' is a little out there. He didn't make three crappy crappy games, then sell the rights to Metroid to another company. Like Lucas did to Star Wars. He made one bad game out of five. And a lot of the things in Other M were things the fanbase was crying for. Especially 'fleshing out Samus character' and 'a darker storyline'. The fanbase just didn't like how it turned out.
>>115463920 >And a lot of the things in Other M were things the fanbase was crying for. Especially 'fleshing out Samus character' and 'a darker storyline'.
That's a load of horseshit. First off, the story wasn't dark, it was retarded.
Secondly, Fusion already tried to flesh out Samus' character and had the same fucking story as Other M and Fusion's the only prior Metroid with strongly divided opinions and a lot of detractors.
Even if for some completely retarded reason Sakamoto listened to the western fanbase (he didn't), nobody was going to be clamoring for more Fusion. Especially not a confusing interquel that contradicts literally every single game in the canon.
Fun fact. There have been 12 different Enterprise models made. half of them have been destroyed in scenes like that one. They even made a completely unique 'destroyed' models just to film certain scenes.
Just shows the level of dedication ILM put into a series that wasn't even related to Star Wars. And how far they could go when given the freedom.
The new Star Trek films with their entirely CGI ships can go rot in hell. Just wait until the same thing happens to Star Wars. Oh the cries that will fill the universe...so delicious.
Because Hollywood runs nearly everything. And they always look down on anything that isn't 'drama'. SciFi never wins any awards beyond 'best design'.
In Japan, they are open to multiple types of stories. Just look at the wild variation of Miyazaki works. Crazy fantasy tales about kids riding in a cat bus or a girl who is a witch in a realistic European city.
These types of stories would never work in America. They would just be laughed at. You only get this kind of stuff from international markets. Even Harry Potter would have been rejected by a western company if the books weren't so big beforehand. And even then, Hollywood did turn Harry Potter into overly dramatic shit.
>"Give me your lunch money, nerd!" has gone pro is all.
Most of the major executives in Hollywood admit to being the 'nerds' that got picked on. They're just trying to hide it by making huge budget action movies and overly dramatic drivel.
The biggest issue when it comes to Hollywood is, most people are just following trends. Lord of the Rings was a huge success? Let's make tons of fantasy movies for a few years! A film about pirates did well? Let's make a dozen Pirate movies! Oh shit, a scifi dystopian story sold well? Let's make a dozen of those!
You mean taking well known folk tales and ruining them? That's hardly the same thing. Especially since Disney as a company uses the same formula for every single movie. They just change the setting and art design. But the character archetypes and story is always the same. Hero is ostracized by the community. Hero leaves on a journey. Hero defeats some random 'bad guy' (usually not related to the original segregation). Hero returns and is welcomed into the community.
Its always the same fucking thing. Doesn't matter if you call it Mulan or A Bugs Life.
A movie being 'kiddie' wasn't the original point either. Miyazaki movies aren't 'kiddie'. They're aimed at general audiences. And have wide variations in tone and content. You can't claim Laputa, Whisper of the Heart and Mononokehime are similar. One is an optimistic adventure story, the other is a slice of life romance and the third is a dark mythology story.
Disney movies follow basically the same 2-3 set formulas every time.
Anime follows trends, sure. But they also have plenty of unique stories as well. Between 2000-2006, ecchi harems were produced like candyt in Japan. Didn't stop them from also making some very different series like Hajime no Ippo, Princess Tutu, Angelic Layer, Haruhi, etc.
And all of the examples I just provided above are types of shows that would never be greenlit by a Hollywood producer.
Yes, they use the same basic formula. Just a different setting and theme.
Aladdin and Hunchback? Yes, they're set in different time periods. But they still have the same basic formula of a main protagonist who feels like an outsider. Then does something 'heroic' to gain favor by the community. Defeats an 'evil' guy (who is really forced into the plot). And then is graciously acepted by the community as a hero.
>>115464682 >Sansei You can drop the weeaboo bullshit, you're not impressing anyone. Also, don't try to pretend that Castle of Cagliostro wasn't more in line with his later works than the Lupin series up to that point.
>>115464682 >Not every single thing follows the pattern. >Means the pattern doesn't exist. Oh, and >Forgetting about Grave of the Fireflies. If there was one movie you should have mentioned it was that one.
>you dared to call something by its Japanese name! >WEEABOO
Someone really needs to come up with a counter term for idiots like you. Who have to scream weeaboo anytime they feel like a Japanese reference is 'too Japanese'. Just because you love Adult Swim for removing all Japanese references from anime doesn't mean everyone else has to be like you.
>Also, don't try to pretend that Castle of Cagliostro wasn't more in line with his later works than the Lupin series up to that point.
Miyazaki was co creator of the original Lupin concept. And directed many of the series episodes. Including a large bulk of the first season.
See, this is the kind of thing you'd know if you were 'weeaboo' enough.
>>115464742 >But they still have the same basic formula of a main protagonist who feels like an outsider. Then does something 'heroic' to gain favor by the community. Defeats an 'evil' guy (who is really forced into the plot). And then is graciously acepted by the community as a hero. This is one of the most common storylines you can come across. You can apply it to a shitton of stories. It's also nice how you ignored the "tone and content" part completely.
Miyazaki didn't write or direct Grave of the Fireflies. Nor did he have anything to do with Ocean Waves, Pom Poko, Only Yesterday or The Tale of Princess Kaguya. They were all done by a guy named Isao Takahata. The co founder of Ghibli.
Over 90% of all anime are adaptations of other sources and not original creations. Doesn't change the fact that someone actually greenlit a boxing manga in an era when Love Hina and Mahoromatic was the 'trend'. They could have adapted hundreds of shitty romance/ecchi manga besides Hajime no Ippo.
...are you seriously claiming these stories don't follow the formula?
That one did try to be different. And saw a 75% drop in sales as a result. Hence why most of the Disney productions that followed went right back to the old formula.
Every time Disney tries to deviate from their set formula, they see a huge downturn in sales. The only movie to ever see a successful bump which went away from the 'formula' was Lilo and Stitch. And Disney soon killed their 2D animation department after it came out.
>>115465026 >superhero movies that will never die Feel free to correct me, but I took this as your saying that shit like the Avengers is going to stand the test of time, when even now people never talk about it.
Over half the Miyazaki movies don't have anything to do with the environment or a 'strong female lead' as you claimed. Even more if you count all Ghibli movies, since Isao Takada movies have absolutely nothing to do with those things.
Well over half the Disney movies follow a similar formula.
Is that too hard for you? Now let's go back to naming a small amount of counter examples and arguing over them.
>>115465191 You're right, I should have gone into detail about citing one commonly made sure bet against another is fucking stupid, but go ahead and tell yourself that Madhouse was a bunch of rebels for making sound business decisions.
>>115465280 There are certain shows 'normal' adults watch, as in the West. And movies may get a pass, like Ghiblishit, which IS the equivalent of Disney. It has a larger 'presence' in Japanese society.
But it's still by and large for children, and geeks.
>>115465536 There are good reasons for every single one of those being as popular as they are. Sure, idiots typically say they're good for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't excuse other idiots shitting on them as though they have no value.
>>115465456 >But why are otaku being looked down upon? There's a difference between liking anime and being otaku. Otaku are just the hardcore, no-lifers that leech off of society. They're the people who have rooms filled with figurines, posters and body pillows. Japanese, hell any society, despises and looks down on them because they don't contribute to society, they don't have children, and frankly, they're disgusting.
You're basically talking about a minority of people looking down an another minority of people. A subset of the older Japanese generation who look down on the younger generation for focusing too much on shounen/shoujo manga and not enough on getting into college or a solid job.
Its not unlike 'comic book nerds' being looked down upon in the west. The difference is, the manga market is by far the biggest entertainment medium in Japan. It would be like if 80-85% of the people in America read graphic novels or comic books.
But Japan gets away with that because they have manga aimed at all audiences. Not just young kids, but adult men/women (Sienen/Josei) and even older groups. Hell, the longest running show in Japan is an anime that started in 1967.
>Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs >Pinocchio >Bambi >Cinderella >Alice in Wonderland >Peter Pan >Sleeping Beauty >One Hundred and One Dalmatians >The Jungle Book >Winnie the Pooh >The Fox and the Hound >The Black Cauldron Is this enough?
>>115465643 Yes, but by not working and not having children, they're contributing to Japan's aging population problem - something that will bring more harm in the long run, culturally and economically.
>but go ahead and tell yourself that Madhouse was a bunch of rebels for making sound business decisions.
No one is doing this except you. It was just an example of something that was not a harem. And you went ballistic on it.
For the last 10 years, America has had a huge focus on dumb reality shows and 'dramas'. Does that mean there hasn't been other original concepts? Of course not. I can name plenty. But it still doesn't change what the popular trend is. And it was the same in Japan with harem/ecchi comedies during the turn of the century.
All examples that came before The Little Mermaid. Do you even notice how they kept sticking even closer to the formula since the 1990s? Most of the Pixar films being made today are using the same basic formula Aladdin/Lion King set up.
Andthe few movies that go against this formula (Pocahontas, Mulan, Emperors New Groove, The Frog and the Prince, etc) are rewarded with weaker ticket and DVD sales. The only one to be successful by bucking the formula was Lilo and Stitch. At least, successful in Disney standards. Emperors New Groove was quite a niche hit. But Disney only cares if a movie pulls Pixar numbers now.
The problem is, even in the old days (1930s-1940s), there was only a handful of serious comic book publishers. And even then, most people only recognize DC and Marvel.
Even if Comic BOoks hadn't been hit by a string of bad press and loss of populairty in the 1960s-1980s, there wouldn't have been the massive vairety you see for Manga in Japan. They basically set up the standard of comic books = caped crusader.
And that has also been a major reason comics never went beyond a niche fascination. Because no matter how much you advertise a product, if it only targets the same group of people over and over (shut ins who like super heroes or goth vampire stories), then that's the only market you're gonna get.
So are all of Don Bluth's movies. Though to be fair, half of his movies were pretty terrible. And Titan AE, which should have been the dream correlation between Japan and America, was just such a bad concept that it killed his career.
Don Bluth is the perfect example of someone with good ideas, but failed execution. And he never allowed others to change his concepts.
No they didnt. But they were also not the best movies.
Wreck it Ralph was basicaly 'pandering to video game nerds: the movie'. With every crappy SNL actor they could shoe horn into it. Which is another major problem with western animation. They focus more on drawing people in with the 'Hollywood Voice Actors' than the actual plot and content of the movie.
They could make a movie that is total shit and people would still go see it just because a famous Hollywood actors name is on it. Oh wait, Dreamworks does it all the time! Shit like Ice Age and Madagascar should be destroyed.
>>115465692 Why the fuck would anyone want to have children when everyone's in a global recession? That's financial suicide. There are people that can't even find the money to take care of themselves, let alone kids.
>>115465625 You sound Japanese. Or like someone who belongs to an asian ethnicity in genral.
And they contribute by keeping the anime industry alive during rough as fuck times (as cancerous as they may be with their pandering shit,) because the normalfags sure as hell aren't doing anything to support the situation.
And honestly, why would you even want mentally fucked up people to have children? It's a recipe for disaster, and it's even worse when irresponsible people do end up having kids.
You'd be surprised. Many studies have proven that people have more kids when times are tough. And it makes very basic sense. When people are limited and don't have financial outlets to indulge their senses, they turn to sex. Something that is basically free and fun (except for people on 4chan of course).
>>115466271 So, are you suggesting that it should be acceptable to have kids whenever, even if a couple can't fucking handle the finanicial difficulties or their the stability of their relationship with their spouse down the line?
Maybe if they weren't such fucking prudes with immigrants and foreigners their population levels would be at a better place. I remember reading several articles about the subject, that the Japanese government will inevitably have to welcome immigrants to fill in the certain job positions eventually.
>>115466351 That doesn't validate it. It's still incredibly stupid to do, and it isn't all to common with the middle and upper class populations in first world nations. It's much more common with second and third world nations, or the poorer classes in the 1st world.
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